Screencap by Boch via NY Post video.
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In New York City, where the law keeps virtually everyone disarmed, a group of “high end” robbers are making off like, well, bandits robbing some high net worth individuals of their expensive jewelry while they dine at fancy restaurants in the nice parts of town.

These brazen thieves have struck multiple times at top end restaurants. They’ve even killed one man who dared to resist.

From the New York Post:

A Manhattan cop opened fire early Monday at suspected members of a high-end-robbery ring casing a Chelsea restaurant — who are possibly tied to last month’s shooting at Philippe Chow, police sources said.

The crew tools around in Mercedes-Benzes and BMWs to pull off its heists, which cops believe include at least 12 robberies across Manhattan, Queens and The Bronx — netting more than $4 million in jewelry and watches just since August, sources said.

The robbers — who call themselves “OED” for “Own Every Dollar” — are affiliated with the notorious Trinitarios gang in The Bronx and suspected in at least one homicide, sources said.

“They are very vicious,” a Manhattan cop said.

“After they shot a victim Uptown, they pounced on him and stole his jewelry while he was dying.”

Imagine the life expectancy of a group like this in, say, Miami, were a high-end restaurant might sport 10% or even 20% of the diners packing heat, given the fact that Florida has issued over 2.5M licenses. Or in Dallas where Texans no longer need a stinkin’ license to carry a gun for a nice dinner while wearing glittering diamonds and flashy accessories.

Robbers, armed and otherwise, face a real risk of getting their tickets punched in civilized cities and states that maintain the ability for the little people to carry firearms for self-defense.

Meanwhile gun control laws, like those in force in New York City, only protect the criminal class. They leave the little people helpless against thugs plying their evil trade.

But people like politicians, the rich, and the well-connected don’t care. They’re among the protected class that can get permits in New York, or operate with their own paid security. The rest of New York’s citizens are forced to deal with the consequences of the civilian disarmament policies they support so vocally.

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225 COMMENTS

  1. There is a fatal element of logic to this article: reporting that the well-to-do are being robbed in their safe spaces, and lacking means to defend themselves. Then the article ends with a lament that the elites, who can finesse carry permits, are among “the little people” who cannot arm themselves.

    As for the wealthy elites, they are at fault for flaunting/displaying their wealth in public. If you don’t want to get robbed, don’t look like you are worth robbing. That won’t stop robberies, but showcasing your wealth and elite status is just dumb. And dumb people shouldn’t complain about the consequence of their dumbery.

    • “. . . they are at fault for flaunting/displaying their wealth in public.” Looks to me like they aren’t flaunting/displaying their wealth by the cloths or jewelry they wear. The simple fact that they are dining in a high-end restaurant serves to target them. ‘Roll-up-your sleeve and show me your Rolex.’

      A man-of-means sufficient to get a carry permit in NYC is a man with the means to hire a couple of armed bodyguards.

      Now, the robbers are targeting the ordinary millionaire. In NYC, someone with only single-digit millions is still too poor to justify issuing a carry permit.

      These not-quite-rich-enough haven’t been using their collective but limited clout to influence city-hall to lower the balance-sheet requirement for carry permits. They will have to wait for NYSR&P v Bruen to be announced in 2022 to start filing their applications.

      • “Now, the robbers are targeting the ordinary millionaire. In NYC, someone with only single-digit millions is still too poor to justify issuing a carry permit. ”

        Only in America can a millionaire (whatever that might mean) be “too poor”.

        But I catch your drift.

        • If one lives in Manhattan being worth a million means you own a nice one bedroom apartment in a good neighborhood, nothing more. 2 million means you have a two bedroom apartment. To get to the point where one might be considered well off, yet still not rich, may be as much as 4-5 million in assets including one’s dwelling. Manhattan is a strange place.

    • “showcasing your wealth and elite status is just dumb”

      People with wealth and elite status can’t help themselves. They have to flaunt their wealth as much as dogs have to bark. They buy expensive homes, cars, clothes and toys to broadcast their superior status.

      Even those without wealth feel the need to emulate them and live beyond their means. We’re preening animals who value style over substance.

      • “We’re preening animals who value style over substance.”

        I just hate it when people point out the truth about the human species.

        • Displays of wealth by men attract women. It’s no different than peacocks, or any other animal that displays it’s abundant resources to attract a mate. Then the mate gets to display the wealth. Humans are hierarchical and wealth is part of the hierarchical calculation.

          I am at the point where I am no longer concerned about what the law says about whether I can or can’t carry. I try to avoid going to places where carry is illegal, but I have carried in states and in specific locations where it was illegal. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

      • ‘Rich people “Can’t help themselves”’

        First of all, you are completely wrong about this. Rich people are no different than people in general: some like showing—they would call it enjoying—their wealth, others abhor it.

        I use myself as an example: I am not super rich but am more than comfortable and fit the idea of what society calls “rich” (I could live off my investments if I wanted to) yet I drive a 2009 pick up truck and live in a modest house in a modest neighborhood, and do not dress extravagantly, just with dignity (that is, I avoid sweat pants, any clothing with other men’s names prominently displayed on it, including sports jerseys, etc.). So rich people certainly can “help themselves “.

        But regardless of whether rich people preen or flaunt, that isn’t per se some character flaw the way some seem to be arguing. As a society, what’s wrong with groups and individuals putting on pageants, creating and celebrating and displaying beauty? To me, this (related to the artistic impulse) is one of the essential values of human life. And that should not be limited by various individuals’ subjective standards of what constitutes unacceptable flaunting. And we can’t live in a free and open society if everyone has to worry about being robbed and murdered for expressing themselves.

        And we certainly get some of our flaunting—display—behavior from nature. How many male animals display themselves and/or their resources to indicate their fitness to mate? Is there some shared moral failing between humans and animals with displays of wealth?

        For me, some displays of wealth can be gauche but there is nothing per se immoral or boorish about dressing up for a meal at a “fancy” restaurant.

        • “And we can’t live in a free and open society if everyone has to worry about being robbed and murdered for expressing themselves. ”

          Precisely as the anti-gun mob would state it (certain you didn’t mean to support that thinking).

          No one needs to worry about being robbed, attacked or murdered; live as if those risks are infinitesimal; fine, your choice. Just don’t bemoan disastrous outcomes.

      • Does this apply to the Schmidt and Bender / US Optics / Nightforce scope? The custom or semi-custom PRS rifle? The pricey 1911? The overpriced, upgraded Glock? The 18 year McCallan scotch? I can easily take 10 grand in a couple of guns and scopes to the range. The Mrs. has 25 grand in jewelry in a few pieces – I buy some expensive guns and optics and she gets nice jewelry. Someone trying to part my wife from her jewelry in my presence will likely meet the same fate as someone trying to carjack me. If she wears the jewelry I bought her to a nice restaurant is she flaunting?

        At the end of the day this is about gun control and disarmed civilians being prime pickings. Congrats if you drive an old car – if it’s road worthy I completely respect that. Want to rag on douches who flaunt their wealth? Have at it. I’ve seen a lot of “humble” people flaunt nice guns and nice things. We take pride in sweet guns and gear, freedom, and probably all have a pricey hobby or two. I happen to like nice cars and restaurants every now and then. I don’t think that makes anyone pretentious unless they think they suddenly have the right to treat their servers and such with disdain.

    • “As for the wealthy elites, they are at fault for flaunting/displaying their wealth…”

      So is that like the short skirt defense?

    • the ones behind all this are not wealthy, they simply own and control everything. every single thing. the “elites” being robbed are the bottom of the barrrel of the barrel.

    • You can be fairly well to do, and not be able to afford full time security. One armed guard around the clock amounts to about 90k minimum for poor quality guards, up to 250k for pretty reliable guards. That’s a hefty outlay for mere millionaires. Bear in mind that you don’t have to be a millionaire to afford a few diamonds, nice clothes, and a dinner in a fancy restaurant.

    • some people are mature and secure enough in who they are that theey do have and wear such stuff but NOT to “show off” or “flaunt” their wealth.

      I used to hang with a rough looking character from Alaska.. he wore a watch wot=rth some ten grand, everywhere he went. We were walking about in a VERY sketchy area of Tacoma, Hilltop, the nurder capitol of Washington State at the time, none of us armed, and he realised he’d forgotten to leave the watch back in the car, buried. He shrugged his shoulders and we carried on as if nothing unsusal was going on. It wasn’t… we just did not have the appearance of anyone worth messing with. It was broad daylight butif anyone with evil intent had noticed that watch out there on his bare writs,t we night have had an “interesting” afternoon. As it was, we drew NO attentioin, three older white guys casually walking along in the black ‘hood… as I mentioned he wore that watch everywhere NOT a status symbol at all, just his watch.

      • “…as I mentioned he wore that watch everywhere NOT a status symbol at all, just his watch.”

        Probably because everyone in the ‘hood had the same, or better, watch already.

      • Sorry, but this is a cancerous way to think about society. Do you really want to live in a law of the jungle society where it is everyone for himself and the strong can do whatever they want to the weak? Do you really believe in the “she asked for it” defense to rape?

        Think about the world you are building with the statement that these diners are at least partially at fault because they are rich and wearing jewelry in public a few steps more: if just wearing or possessing valuables in public is problematic, then why is keeping the valuables in your nice big rich person house any better? Are you not “flaunting” your wealth with your house and its valuables? Why aren’t you at fault for providing an inviting target for burglars or home invaders? And why are you any better if you keep all your money in the bank and live like a pauper? Isn’t your money, combined with others, acting as a giant honeypot for criminals? In short: criminals don’t need an excuse to act like anti-social a-holes. Let’s not indulge them by pretending we can always avoid their destructive behavior by hiding our valuables and selves from them.

        The point here is not that people should take stupid risks, but that we should not blame the victim(s) when people decide to step outside the well-worn bounds of acceptable behavior and commit crimes (personal/financial/etc) on others. We should not have to structure our society like we are living in a tiny 9th century littoral village of hovels waiting for the Vikings to come kill us, steal everything we own, and burn the village.

        Yes, taking precautions is smart, and that’s why OC/CC is an important right as it enables effective self-defense. But that doesn’t mean that the people who don’t carry are “asking for it”. There simply must be a societal standard of behavior which demands that young women be able to walk home at night alone safely, that children may roam, and that diners can enjoy a meal without getting robbed and killed by punks. Even though it is very hard to get to that idealized standard in a free society, we should still aspire to it: aspersions about robbery victims “flaunting” their wealth do not represent a helpful mindset. Crime victims are not bad people for “allowing” or “enabling” criminals to attack them. The fault lies with the criminal.

        All that said, if I were carrying or wearing very expensive jewelry, especially if I were in an area known for robbery, I would want to be armed along with my companions. But NYC diners have a dilemma: the city and state government totally ignore the part that says “shall not be abridged” and illegally restrict their ability to carry weapons. It does give me pause and make me consider how I would react and what I would be.

        Among other problems with this, it presents a slippery slope. You are telling people that they shouldn’t “flaunt” their wealth. But the article did not say anyone was flaunting their wealth—you added that part in your head. And what constitutes flaunting? Does wearing a watch constitute flaunting it? How about carrying a large amount of cash in your wallet? I want to live in a society where people can flaunt their wealth without getting robbed and murdered at gunpoint.

        Read Leviathan by Hobbes and the need for a sovereign with a monopoly on exercising force for the Law (it doesn’t mean average people have to give up their guns, only that they agree that only the state will use force to enforce the law). What you instead seem to be advocating is that people should not form a community but instead cower in fear at their neighbors.

      • ““ If you don’t want to get robbed,” look like it’ll cost the robbers waaayyy too much to try.
        FIFY”

        Good advice, but carrying a belt-fed weapon makes for a long day.

    • So they are “at fault for flaunting/displaying their wealth in public” huh? I suppose you’re one of those who believes a girl who wears a short skirt deserves to be raped?

      • “So they are “at fault for flaunting/displaying their wealth in public” huh? ”

        Aren’t we the ones chortling over “stupid people, doing stupid things in stupid places, winning stupid prizes”?

        People have the right to be stupid, but are likewise responsible for the consequences, are they not?

        • Not criminal consequences, no. Let’s not be stupid. If you’re an asshat, is it now going to be legal to kill you? If not, then wearing a Rolex (as I have for 34 years now with zero problems) does not make it legal to rob you.

        • When I was young and good looking, living in Dallas in large Apartment Complex with Club House that hosted Happy Hour on Friday.
          Met an Australian Guy, who was visiting friends.
          As a young dumb woman, sucker for the accent so when he asked back to his apartment for tea.
          We sat on the sofa and his intention was not for tea but for sex.
          Big mistake, I had two older brothers, one was only 13 months older than me so we siblings and friends! He taught me to not take crap from anyone. Also if parents weren’t home westlng matches.
          He didn’t want me to be candy ass girl.
          So I pretended to be willing to kiss him, I got his lower lip and bit him until he let me go. I asked him why he thought he could take advantage of me? His answer was “my blokes back home told me American women are easy” I told him not all women are easy with their pantries, I didn’t stop until his lip was bleeding.
          I was not a gently raised girl.
          My dad gave me his Govt Colt 380 semiautomatic pistol when I was working a night shift, for my trip over to his house weekends, since I now have a collection of handguns, I gave it to my nephew, an Austin PD for his wife when he works night shift.

      • “BS! If you don’t want to get robbed, shoot the mofo.”

        Not sure how that statement is germane to the comment; but, almost everyone missed the point: the internal flip-flop regarding who can/cannot afford private security.

  2. Of course, blame the victims of crime instead of terminating gang members. Use RICO and put them where they belong: in the United States Penitentiary Administrative Maximum Facility in Florence, Colorado. Supermax

    • or you know, in the county potters field.

      Seriously, its been known for a longggggg time the only way to definitively stop a violent predator from hunting and attacking prey is to put a stop to the violent predator permanently. Consider violent predator zoo animals (lions and tigers and bears, oh my…etc…) born and raised in captivity, no matter how docile they seem, how satisfied they are getting fed and taken care of – you let them out of the cages into the wild and they will seek prey. Look at their eyes in the zoo and carefully consider their stare as they look at you, they are looking at you as prey, their next meal, and if you look at a violent predator criminal looking at you they have the same predator stare sizing you up for their next “meal”. Even social animal species in the wild have predators among them, for example, as cute as people want to think they are a monkey will attack and kill another monkey in the wild.

      Every animal species on earth understands this concept except man, and the most preyed upon animal species, preyed upon by its own species, on earth is man.

      When that bad guy comes, you need to treat them like the predator they are and punch their ticket.

      • most preyed upon spoecies on earth? Statistics to bac that one up? Overall, the nubmers of humans killed by other humans deliberaty is vanihshingluy small, expecially when compared to things like field mice, squirrels, raccons, rbbits. then we have the situation of fish at sea…. a four hundred pound tuna must have eaten many tonnes of smaller fish.
        Still wanna claim that man is the most preyed upon?

        • Don’t be silly, we aren’t comparing to mice, squirrels, raccons, rbbits, and four hundred pound tuna. For cripes sakes. We are comparing violent apex predators. Stop taking things out of its intended context to change its meaning to create a false BS argumen. Expand your thoughts beyond the immediacy of picking your nose.

          Its comparing to violent apex predators in the wild that prey on other species or sometimes (rarely, relatively,) on its own species out of an instinctual need based in survival

          vs.

          man kind humans the most advanced intelligence and social structure animal that has violent human animal apex predators (e.g. the violent criminal) that purposely preys on its own species out of choice. Humans are the only animal species that purposely prey upon its own species out of choice. Thus, like I said, man kind is the most preyed upon animal species, preyed upon by its own species, on earth.

        • “must have eaten many tonnes of smaller fish“

          Oopsie, you need to check your ‘weights and measures’ translation algorithm.

        • @40 Cal Bogger
          My God! Wake up and smell the coffee. The violence portrayed in this article was NOT perpetrated by lawful gun owners. It was done by the criminals you Leftist-Socialists want to enable with your social program experimentation (which have not worked).
          Not take your own advice and go back to picking your nose while you attempt to develop something most of us call COMMON SENSE.

        • Walter. Dude. I think you have Booger confused with somebody else, he does not present as any manner of a lefty.

        • LarryinTX, By the way, I’m not a “dude’. ;ve been out west, ridden horses and was a Town Marshall out in Colorado.

  3. Only when the victims are rich, and mostly white Liberal rich, will things change for the better. They might even get a NYC gun permit?

      • even private security guys often cannot get the Mother May I Card in NYC. Friend of mine tried.. licensed as a private investigator and seurity guy in both New York State and CAlifornia.. could not get a Mother May I Card in either state. Of course, his legal residence in Caifornia was Berkeley at that time.

        Hehas since shifted off to Vermont. Hah, he dont even NEED no steeeeenkeeeeng Mother May I Card.

        • Rosie O’Donnell wants hired guns around her. And she has said the general public should not have guns at all. You are just like her miner49er. Only the connected elite should have guns.

          Donald Trump on the other hand has said, it’s a great thing that all Americans have access to rifles, like the AR-15, to stop a mass shooter.

        • I carry as well. Is there a point? Anyone who pays out of his own pocket for armed security and does not also carry personally is a dope, unless there is a reason such as blindness or similar.

  4. Gee, New Yorkers didn’t see this coming with all the “woke” going on? I mean really, after they put up a george floydd statue in Union Square and all?

  5. I’m kind of glad, in a “I told you so” way, to see shit like this happening. Maybe once the smug, rich liberals start coming face-to-face with the kind of crap that the rest of us have to put up with, they might alter their point of view. Hope springs eternal.

  6. Maybe if the Mayor and his wife get robbed while at dinner…but they get to bring their security force/cops with them… so pretty unlikely.
    Maybe stake out some of the high end restaurants…
    But…gang probably has multiple cops on the payroll as well

  7. Well this story proves what I posted recently from 2 studies that prove when you are dumb enough to resist in a robbery you end up getting yourself killed.

    Also starting a gun fight in a crowded restaurant over possessions is the height of right wing stupidity and total disregard for human life.

    Now be honest if you were out dining with the family would you want your family to be killed suddenly by stray bullets because some right wing greed monger thought more about the cost of his high end watch than the lives of your family. Its very easy to be a key board commando and claim we should all support OK Corral shoot outs but even Wyatt Earp (as big a criminal as he was) was still smart enough to meet the Clanton Gang in an area that was not amongst the general population going about their daily business.

    The real question should have been “Where did the crooks get there guns” well you should know they got them second hand out on the street because anyone in Capitalvania can buy a gun with no paperwork because we do not vet second hand gun sales.

    • That post is so idiotic I’m even sure where to begin…

      ” resist in a robbery you end up getting yourself killed ”

      There is no guarantee that compliance will not get you killed. Some of these bad-asses will blow you away just for kicks. Furthermore, you’re suggesting that compliance is the way to stop these crimes, when it actually just means they’re more likely to persist and even increase as copy-cats get some bright ideas. Sorry, but the idea of surrender never sat well with me.

      ” Wyatt Earp (as big a criminal as he was) was still smart enough to meet the Clanton Gang in an area that was not amongst the general population going about their daily business ”

      Dumb-ass, the OK Corrall was in a podunk town in the middle of nowhere in a time long past. There was “general population” to really be concerned about, certainly not anything near a New York street. The analogy is bogus.

      The point, however, is not. This gang has already shown it is willing to shoot without regard to who might get hit. So the threat is always there. The question becomes what to do about it. Surrender is one option, but that will never deter the threat. Private security is another option, but the cost of the security detail would quickly exceed the value of the jewelry, and it’s not recoverable via insurance. Now, if the private security whips out the gats and decides to put up a fight, there will be collateral damage, same as if private citizens did the same thing. And if the Pinkertons don’t put up a fight, what’s the point of paying them to come along for dinner?

      So, the choices are pretty clear: a) Surrender the goods; b) Hire the privates and suffer the collateral casualties; c) Carry a piece and DIY, also suffering collateral casualties; d) Stay home and order take-out.

      ” “Where did the crooks get there guns” … because we do not vet second hand gun sales. ”

      And how, exactly, do you propose to vet the black market? Here’s a hint… you can’t. So your conclusion, and its implied solution, becomes the product of a serious cerebral-anal complex (i.e., you got your head up your ass).

      • To Up To Your Neck In Bullshit

        quote ———–There is no guarantee that compliance will not get yoto u killed. ————quote

        Look Moron the studies show that the odds lie with the attackers who have the element of surprise.

        And common sense ( which you do not have any of) would guarantee a lot of innocent people would get killed over your blind greed and stinginess of trying to keep your watch. You really are a low life.

        quote————–Dumb-ass, the OK Corrall was in a podunk town in the middle of nowhere in a time long pa————quote

        Like most of the uneducated far right Morons you know as much about history as you do about rocket science which is zero Jethro. Look you dumb ass Moron, Tombstone had a population of 7.000 just two years after it was founded and that you Moron was way before Earp ever became Sherriff there. You really made fool of yourself over that one dumb ass.

        quote————–The point, however, is not. This gang has already shown it is willing to shoot without regard to who might get hit———quote

        Your making this to easy for me Jethro you are not even a challenge. You just made an absolute fool out of yourself without even realizing you just proved what I originally posted. Is this getting to complicated for you?????

        quote————–And how, exactly, do you propose to vet the black market?———–quote

        Once again this is too easy you just made an even bigger fool of yourself as every study done in the last decades (and I could quote many) prove that THE BLACK MARKET RUNS ON UNVETTED SECOND HAND GUNS YOU FOOL.

        QUOTE————you got your head up your ass).————QUOTE

        No Moron you have got your head up your ass as you just proved you know nothing about gun control, nothing about criminals, nothing about gun fights and nothing about Tombstone or Wyatt Earp.

        Try again Jethro you are a laugh a minute.

        • Let me educate you. Most law abiding gun owners who carry concealed would not fire in a restaurant situation. We are not the cowboys, you anit-gun radicals would like to paint us. I suggest you learn something about modern firearms before putting your foot in your mouth again, Leftist.

        • To Up To Your Neck In Bullshit

          quote———–quote————–Dumb-ass, the OK Corrall was in a podunk town in the middle of nowhere in a time long past————quote

          Correction: The gun fight at the OK Corral was fought in 1881 and the Town of Tombstone had a population of 7,000 in 1881 and that was 2,000 more people than my town had in 1958.

          Next time do a bit of research Jethro the Hill Jack.

        • “Look Moron the studies show that the odds lie with the attackers who have the element of surprise.”

          The attackers have the element of surprise, but they are often outnumbered, and lose the element of surprise as soon as they act. You do not see this behavior outside of Democrat strongholds because, as TTAG already pointed out.. the odds of someone in the restaurant being armed and willing to take down a dangerous predator are high in areas of the country that aren’t gripped by collective insanity. Criminals are risk averse, so they don’t pull this crap in the rest of the US. Just in blue cities/states.

          This gang has already killed one victim, they can (and will) do so again. Perhaps someone doesn’t take off grandma’s earrings fast enough. Maybe the necklace doesn’t unclasp quickly. Submitting to predators is always a bad idea, since you never know when the calculus will change and compliance will no longer be the ticket to safety you think it is.

          And regarding your point about unlicensed guns and a lack of UBC’s being the source of all evil.. move to Mexico, Brazil, or London in the UK. Those are all very safe places with all the UBC’s and the gun control you lovingly stroke to every night. Why settle for a wet dream? There are places that already have the gun control you crave! And best of all, there won’t be any of those awful right wingers there! Don’t delay any longer – go live your dream!!

          XOXOXO

        • “We are not the cowboys, you anit-gun radicals would like to paint us.”

          Anyone that disagrees with lil’ d is a stereotype in his mind. He never learned how to treat people as individuals. What kind of person does that? We used to understand how dangerous that is.

        • @Miner49r
          https://www.bestplaces.net/voting/city/tennessee/memphis

          “Criminals are risk averse, so they don’t pull this crap in the rest of the US. JUST IN BLUE CITIES/STATES.”

          I’d also point out that this shooting was carried out by a Government employee, in a DESIGNATED GUN FREE ZONE, in a very BLUE/LIBERAL CITY. A USPS employee decided to murder his coworkers with a gun.. there’s a reason it’s called “going postal”. Not the first time, won’t be the last. Shockingly making USPS locations gun free zones hasn’t prevented murder.

        • You may want to brush up on your history. Earp was not Sherriff, but deputy town marshal. His brother Virgil was the Town Marshal who Deputized His younger brothers, Wyatt and Morgan, along with Doc Holladay. Next, if you’ve ever been to Tombstone, you would know the actual gunfight was in a vacant lot behind the OK Coral. Something about 20×40 feet.
          And, lastly, even back in the days of the so called wild west, you had a greater chance of being shot, stabbed or just beat to death in the Eastern cities, than in even the wildest boom towns.
          What made the west wild was a great number of young men without steady work, large amounts of cheap alcohol, and, as in places like Tombstone, established Democrats who were used to running things to profit themselves, upset that more law and order types, mostly Northern, or Midwestern Republicans coming in and spoiling their fun. The Earp’s were Town men and the Clanton’s were the cowboy/rustler/horse thief faction. Used to running rough over the local settlers and early miners.

      • A point the little commissar does not realize is why crooks will want to kill you even if you comply. He thinks if you give them what they want they will let you live. Most will supposedly do that.

        But you have the others who will kill you by accident, malice, or for pleasure. Some will kill their victims either through excessive force or to eliminate potential witnesses. Some will do it for their reputation or to prove how badass they are to their peers.

        These aren’t the people you want to trust to hold their end of the deal.

        • Yup. Criminals have a different calculus that they run their decisions through than normal people – it’s part of what makes them criminals. Assuming someone violent/selfish/sociopathic enough to be an armed robber will behave reasonably is fatally optimistic.

          For example, it’s also worth pointing out that by murdering one of their victims, they’ve cemented their reputation to the sheep of NYC that they can and WILL kill.. and since none of the sheep there have the option of self defense, that will help ensure speedy compliance on the part of their victims.

          After all, they’re definitely not making idle threats.

    • You are one of the sheep. People don’t discuss politics with sheep, people eat sheep while discussing politics. Now, where’s my sheep dog? WAKE UP SPECKLES!! Put the sheep back in the pasture!

      • He is amusing. More so when he gets angry and starts personal attacks.

        Mark Twain said something about shutting your mouth and being thought a fool than to open your mouth and proving beyond all doubt.

    • darcy dodo…You are a panty waist drama queen along the lines of an incompetent self serving pos who left men, women and children for the wolves in Afghanistan and who is responsible for making America a democRat sht hole in 8 months.
      You are so stupid to think you stand a better chance being unarmed in a business during an armed robbery and you want others to join in on your stupidity. You get shot in the crossfire consider it a badge of honor otherwise assume the fetal position while real men and women defend the Alamo.

    • Also starting a gun fight in a crowded restaurant over possessions is the height of right wing stupidity and total disregard for human life.

      do some homework before spilling a rant like this. STatistically speaking armed civilians take out four times as many crimonals as do law enforcement, on the one hand, and cops hit with stray bullets six times as many innocents as do zrmed civilians. Numbers cocnsisnt over decades.

      As to this bit: “anyone in Capitalvania can buy a gun with no paperwork because we do not vet second hand gun sales”.
      WAKE UP doofus. Have yuo ANY idea what it takes for anyone in NYC to LAWFULLY purchase a handgun? The Mother MayI Card to even buy one takes forever to get, and most folks don’t, and the second Mother May I Card to carry it along with you is near impossible for anyone to get unless you are part of the elite club headed by deBiasio. As to “second hand gun sales” all gun sales are treated the same under NY state and City laws…. MUST be purchased through an FFL. AFTER you get the first Mother May I Card from NYC if you are foolish tnough tolive there. Does not matter new or used. SUre these guys patronise the black market (double entendre there…) to get teir guns.. because going the “legal” way mostly does not work.

      Change the laws to alow anyone without a criminalrecord to select, purchas,e take out the door once paid for, any weapon they want. THEN maybe some of the folks sitting in tose high end restaurants would be ble to STOP these life-threatening crimes. WHen a re of these perps earn a ticket to a nice long dirt nap, the “cost of operation” will get so hich maybe most will find a new line of work. Maybe open a gun store in town…. a real FFL store. At least that would be an hoest business.

      • quote————–do some homework before spilling a rant like this. STatistically speaking armed civilians take out four times as many crimonals as do law enforcement————-quote

        NO you do some homework. The studies show you are far more likely to be killed in a shootout with gangsters. And remember genius boy you would have no idea what was coming as they would have had the element of surprise. No your chances according to the stats would be low and you would only succeed in getting yourself killed and a lot of innocent people as well. Anyone who would argue the point is living in a fantasy world.

        • “The studies show you are far more likely to be killed in a shootout with gangsters. And remember genius boy you would have no idea what was coming as they would have had the element of surprise. No your chances according to the stats would be low and you would only succeed in getting yourself killed and a lot of innocent people as well. Anyone who would argue the point is living in a fantasy world.”

          False

        • You are really, really unlikely to get in any manner of a shootout with gangsters unless you are a gangster. Much more likely you may need to defend yourself against a pusher stoned out of his mind who has no idea whether the gun he carries is even loaded, but may well have killed several people just because he was armed and they were not. But unlike your made-up bull, FBI reports show, every year, that those who resist an attacker with a gun are more likely to emerge unharmed that those who do not resist, those who resist with another type of weapon, or those who resist with no weapon at all. Every year, same story, showing your assumptions to be hair-on-fire crazy.

      • And by the way Tie-a-loco

        Anybody that would but the price of a watch over the lives of his family is about as low as a person can get.

    • @dacian I suggest you join the NRA and read their magazine that outlines a number of situations where the good guy with the gun takes out the bad guy. I don’t know where you get your information from, but it is bogus. Most anti-gun radicals are full of donkey dust.

    • ‘Well this story proves what I posted recently from 2 studies that prove when you are dumb enough to resist in a robbery you end up getting yourself killed.

      Also starting a gun fight in a crowded restaurant over possessions is the height of right wing stupidity and total disregard for human life.”

      I love it when people defeat themselves. The gang has already murdered their robbery victims, so they are the ones disregarding lives. It’s about lives, not possessions. Statistics have long shown that armed resistance with a firearm has a lower injury rate than even peaceful compliance.

      “Look Moron the studies show that the odds lie with the attackers who have the element of surprise.”

      And here’s the part where you show that you know nothing about what you’re babbling about. Surprise might be on a criminals side if he’s an assassin ambushing a victim.. However, once a robber or rapist has pulled his gun, his surprise is over and he has to use it to try to control his victims. Even a mass shooter has expended his surprise once he starts shooting. Armed victims now have the opportunity to act, and surprise is now on their side. The criminals are expecting compliance and will be the ones reacting. The proper course of action for a deadly threat isn’t to fire a warning shot or play policeman and order the bad guy to drop his gun and surrender. The proper action is to present your gun quickly and start putting rounds on target, then transition to the next target. Speed, surprise, and violence of action win the confrontation. You also have to be strategic and pick your moment to act. Know where all the criminals are, understand cover, concealment, safe lanes of fire, etc. Defending from the middle of a room surrounded by multiple assailants with innocents in the way isn’t going to end well for the defender.

      • To Any Mouse

        quote—————-I love it when people defeat themselves. The gang has already murdered their robbery victims, so they are the ones disregarding lives. It’s about lives, not possessions————-quote

        Look genius boy there is simply no way you can lie your way out of reality. This is not a Dirty Harry Movie, its real life and opening fire in a restaurant with a room full of people over a fking watch is just more proof of the greedy, stingy and insane Far Right Mentality that puts money and personal possessions over the value of human life. Its just that sickening simple.

        quote————And here’s the part where you show that you know nothing about what you’re babbling about. Surprise might be on a criminals side if he’s an assassin ambushing a victim————quote

        No, its you who do not know what the hell you are talking about.

        When out of nowhere suddenly a guy walks up to you and sticks a gun in your face, now I ask you genius boy, who is more likely to get his head blow off, the robber with the gun already in his hand pointing it at your head or you suddenly realizing your being robbed and your gun is still in its holster. Now come on get real even a child knows the answer to that question but again kids usually have more common sense than Far Right Fanatics.

        quote—————Even a mass shooter has expended his surprise once he starts shooting. Armed victims now have the opportunity to act, and surprise is now on their side.————quote

        Totally wrong again. You just proved my point that when you started the gun fight people were now dropping like flies because bullets were hitting everyone because you panicked the robber. Again if you had given your watch over the gun fight would not have taken place. The robber would have got what he wanted and been on his way out of there. He is not going to sit down and have dinner with you.

        • The one thing you are not, Dacian, is a genius. More like a half wit trying to be a full wit. No, “Einstein”, is not a “Dirty Harry Movie”. It’s real life. I’ll venture a guess you live in an academic world of fantasy. The real problem is with people like you who are actually clueless about the real world the rest of us live in.
          Here is a tip for you. If the robber doesn’t know you have a gun, he’s not going to be expecting you to draw down on him. Real people who carry don’t draw until they have the advantage to stop the perpetrator. For your edification more gun carrying citizens have taken out more perps than police and have done if with less “collateral damage.” You don’t have to believe me. Check with the FBI which is my source.
          Now please do us all a favor and just be very quite and listen to reality instead of your fantasy world where you think (LOL) everything is beautiful.

      • And, speaking of surprise, once the robbery is announced I’ll surrender my Rolex instantly, placing it on the table. And as soon as I see his back, I’ll put a couple HPs in it, then turn to his partner if any. Then pick up my Rolex on the way out.

    • False dacian.

      Actual real research by subject matter qualified researchers say other wise:

      A Pew Foundation report found that; 79% of male gun owners and 80% of female gun owners said owning a gun made them feel safer, and 64% of people living in a home in which someone else owns a gun felt safer. The statistics for defensive gun use substantiate that these are safer and more likely to survive a violent attack with a gun used for defense.

      Of 2,500,000 annual DGU’s more than 7.7% (192,500) are by women defending themselves against sexual abuse. FBI and other studies show; when a woman was armed with a gun 3% of rape attacks were completed compared to 32% when the woman was unarmed. The probability of serious injury from a sexual based attack is 2.5 times greater for women offering no resistance than for women resisting with guns.

      Even Arthur Kellerman, a staunch anti-gun god among anti-gun and gun control people and one of the most used and cited researchers for anti-gun and gun control groups finally admitted, based upon his research that he had purposely not included in his biased “research” that “If you’ve got to resist, your chances of being hurt are less the more lethal your weapon. If that were my wife, would I want her to have a .38 Special in her hand? Yeah.”

      According to a paper by David Kopel, Paul Gallant, and Joanne Eisen, “[F]irearms are used over half a million times a year against home invasion burglars; usually the burglar flees as soon as he finds out that the victim is armed, and no shot is ever fired,” and “Annually, three to six times as many victims successfully defend themselves with handguns as criminals misuse handguns”

      and as far as more guns = more crime crap you have previously presented in other article comments – In the research by criminologist Gary Kleck, the acknowledged, by gun control advocates and pro-gun groups, leader in the filed on this subject;

      …. the quality of most of the studies were very poor when examined in depth. Of the 41 studies papers Kleck examined, less than a third relied on valid measures of gun prevalence, only 12 percent controlled for more than five statistically significant confounding variables, and just 7 percent used suitable methods for ruling out the possibility of reverse causality. Just four studies overcame all three methodological challenges. Of these, not one confirmed the “more guns, more murder” hypothesis. One of these high quality studies (Kovandzic et al 2005) noted that if one ignored the reverse causality problem, it appears that more guns do lead to both higher firearm homicide rates and higher overall homicide rates. But, according to the authors, “when the [reverse causality] problem is addressed, the association [between firearm prevalence and firearm/overall homicide rates] disappears or reverses.”

      Ultimately, Kleck summarized his findings as follows: “Technically weak research mostly supports the [more guns, more murder] hypothesis, while strong research does not. It must be tentatively concluded that higher gun ownership rates do not cause higher crime rates, including homicide rates.”

      • To Bogger Brain
        quote————— The statistics for defensive gun use substantiate that these are safer and more likely to survive a violent attack with a gun used for defense.————quote

        A complete falsehood as the Harvard and Chicago Studies and others like it proved you are far more likely to be killed by resisting and their stats proved it beyond all doubt.

        Objectives. We investigated the possible relationship between being shot in an assault and possession of a gun at the time.

        Methods. We enrolled 677 case participants that had been shot in an assault and 684 population-based control participants within Philadelphia, PA, from 2003 to 2006. We adjusted odds ratios for confounding variables.

        Results. After adjustment, individuals in possession of a gun were 4.46 (P < .05) times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession. Among gun assaults where the victim had at least some chance to resist, this adjusted odds ratio increased to 5.45 (P < .05).

        Conclusions. On average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. Although successful defensive gun uses occur each year, the probability of success may be low for civilian gun users in urban areas. Such users should reconsider their possession of guns or, at least, understand that regular possession necessitates careful safety countermeasures.
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759797/

        • to Booger Brain

          Furthermore, he shows that the death rate from gun accidents and the number of gun shows per capita are positively related to the magazine sales. While Duggan admits that relatively few readers may be criminals, he points out that the majority of firearms used in crime are obtained either from burglaries or from the secondhand market. Thus as the rate of gun ownership in the general population increases, the ease with which criminals can obtain a gun will increase.

          Duggan finds that state and county-level changes in the rate of gun ownership are positively related to changes in the homicide rate. His findings suggest that gun ownership causes crime, and does not simply reflect individuals purchasing guns in response to increases in criminal activity. In support of this, he finds that increases in gun ownership are positively related to future increases in the gun homicide rate, but bear no corresponding relationship to non-gun homicides. His findings reveal that the relationship with other crime categories is much less marked, suggesting that guns primarily affect crime by increasing the homicide rate.

          https://www.nber.org/digest/feb01/fewer-guns-mean-fewer-gun-homicides

        • False

          Once again, you are not understanding what you are reading. You are reading bogus “research”

        • So a study that only had 1361 participants in US city with a population of about 1, 517, 550 over 3 years is a basis to extrapolate data for an entire Country with a population of 281,421,906 in the same time period?? Do you believe this is representative of a population as diverse as the US? Not to mention the last 6 months of the study they made a few changes to the variables they included? And that these were recruited participants?

          Your other study is from 1984, 37 years ago. Do you even realize the cultural changes of criminals in the time since? How about the differences in society? In 1984 I weighed 120 lbs and had a full head of hair, a lot has changed since then. That study was only Chicago and covered 1000 robberies in a one year period.

          And your 3rd study was done before a increase of firearm ownership and a lower crime rate which people like you said did not prove correlation. But when it is opposite you say look correlation. Can’t have it both ways. It is either one or the other.

    • There wasn’t a gun fight at the OK Corral. It was in a different location. Hollywood moved the event to the OK Corral. History major?

      To not resist violence only invites more violence. You only reinforce bad behavior by not resisting. If we as a community would come to the aid of one another in these situations instead of pulling out our smart phones to video, we could make this crap lessen. We may not make it completely end, but the risk vs reward for the behavior will change.

      • Look pompous ass, If I would have mentioned the real location no one would have known what gun battle I was talking about. The Gun Fight is known by the public as the “Gun Fight at the OK Corral”. Now what part of this do you not understand?????

        • Pompous? Look in the mirror moron.

          You are part of the problem preaching non resistance to bad behavior. Your non resistance increases bad behavior.

          What part of that did you miss in behavioral science?

    • What makes you think think I won’t hit my targets? You have no idea of my (or anyone else’s) skill level or training. The statistical fact is that civilian self defenders kill far fewer bystander than cops do. Why? Because we are fucking liable, that’s why. Plus if the bad guys know people are likely to be armed they don’t commit the crime to begin with. As the article alluded, this is not happening in places where people can and do carry.

      • It is true that civilian defensive gun users shoot less innocent bystanders than police do.

        Only 2 % of those involved in civilian defensive gun use shootings are misidentified, 11 % of individuals involved in police shootings were later found to be innocents misidentified as criminals and were innocent bystanders.

        Armed citizens are about 5.5 times less likely than the police to accidentally shoot the wrong person.

  8. While I don’t flaunt cash or wear an expensive watch, I haven’t been out to dinner since February 2020. Anyone paying attention could predict something like this. As for the flaunting rich, they should pack anyway, shoot any scumbag that accosts them, and then pay a good lawyer for their defense. Perhaps they could push the case all the way to the Supreme Court. Something good should come of it.

    As for me, I’ll continue to cook healthy and delicious meals for me and my family, and sometimes my friends and neighbors, at home. Both the food and company are much better

  9. “As for me, I’ll continue to cook healthy and delicious meals for me and my family,…”

    Can’t hardly never go wrong with peanut butter and banana samiches.

      • “depends on the bread you use.. most out there these days are NOT healthy at all. SOme are, though.”

        Gotta be plain white bread; nanner samiches ain’t designed to be healthy, just good tasting.

      • “depends on the bread”
        And the PB. Most is full of sugar. Actually most wheat products are bad for you, but try going a week without consuming any.

        I made made a PB and banana sandwich in front of a girlfriend once, and she thought that was the weirdest thing ever. I thought it was common? Apples are also great with peanut butter.

    • Crunchy peanut butter and banana on authentic Jewish rye toast, hot out of the toaster. But its gotta be real rye, with the seeds, like we would get at the kosher deli on the corner in Brooklyn. Heaven!!!

      • “Crunchy peanut butter and banana on authentic Jewish rye toast, hot out of the toaster.”

        Never heard of that before, but now gotta try it. Sounds really good.

  10. Whoever they are they must be well connected or have a really good fence. Otherwise they’ll be lucky to make 10-20% of the actual value.

  11. @LP1911
    “If one lives in Manhattan being worth a million means you own a nice one bedroom apartment in a good neighborhood, nothing more.”

    When people talk about a millionaire, always wonder if they mean a person worth $1million (until they spend a dollar), net worth, or someone who will always be a millionaire, pretty much regardless of what they spend.

    • Guaranteed, just about everyone is thinking the last one when “millionaire” gets thrown around.

      Meanwhile, 99% of the so-called one percent are the first two, which ain’t actually all that rich these days. Prosperous might be a better term. The truly rich people are billionaires.

      My brother was a self-made multimillionaire for several years — if you counted the worth of his business plus the value of his house, which he bought in a wealthy resort area for a steep discount in the 2008 real-estate crash.

      Reality was that while he was financially very comfortable, and was able to provide better opportunities for his kids and set himself up for a very comfy retirement (if he can ever make himself quit working), he didn’t have millions or even thousands to just throw around willy-nilly. Nor was he the type to waste $ on mere status symbols. Chances are that pretty well-off but not super rich guy you know is a millionaire or more. It’s not that unusual.

  12. So Mayor De Blasio’s key constituents are getting introduced to their less wealthy neighbors in the Big Apple? Good for them.

  13. Hey, what a great post I came across and believe me I’ve been searching for this kind of post for the past week and barely found this one. Thank you so much and will be looking for more posts from you.

  14. If they don’t care to vote and to change their politicians and ergo their laws then they get what they get. So, who cares.

  15. Hey Guys, i’m making $4000 per month with this awesome home based system, enough for me to make a living.
    You don’t need to invest anything, It’s totally FREE! you just have to download it, here’s the link… http://www.jobs70.com

  16. So, over the last couple days we have been counselled by the author to not defend our property and to not to wear/display your property.

    Seems like a statist trend is taking root here. “The state will protect you and you don’t need nice things because it makes the poors act out.”

    • “The state will protect you and you don’t need nice things because it makes the poors act out.”

      Your point being?

      How often do we clap about “Stupid people, doing stupid things in stupid places; winning stupid prizes.” ?

      • Last I checked, people have the right to be stupid.

        I don’t know if protecting your property IAW the law or wearing a watch in public qualify as stupid though.

        I get situational awareness but some of these “articles” are starting to come across as fear porn. YMMV

        • “I don’t know if protecting your property IAW the law or wearing a watch in public qualify as stupid though.”

          Your dwelling is a defensible position; wandering around in the dark, not knowing exactly what is going on, how many perps might be involved (and where they are), carrying a toy gun cannot qualify as tactically smart.

          Wearing flashy jewelry in public invites the (perhaps armed) curious.

          Grey Man; Grey Man.

  17. High end restaurants throw a lot of good food in the dumpsters.
    Your chances of getting mugged eating garbage out of the dumpster are much slimmer then eating garbage inside the high end restaurant.
    Before you all run out and start eating out of the dumpster, be advised, you may get bitten or scratched but I promise the cats and possums wont take your watch.

  18. “Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.”

    A popular declaration, but are you putting family at risk of losing your contribution to their lives, should you be in the wrong place with a firearm?

  19. And remember even if you manage to survive and kill the robber you can and probably will have to fight wrongful death lawsuits by the relatives of the innocent people you caused to get killed because you started a gun fight in a crowded restaurant. So being blind greedy over the loss of your watch would have been far cheaper than getting sued by multiple people.

    Yes its the standard mentality of the Far Right, save a penny today and go bankrupt tomorrow. Just as they do not want to bay $2,000 a year more in taxes for Universal Health Care so they then later have to pay 1 million in health and drug costs later so too they would fight over losing a watch in a robbery and then have to pay out legal fees and court settlements amounting to millions. Even an ape in a zoo could understand the fallacy of blind greed trumping common sense. But the ape is higher on the evolutionary scale.

    • again a load of bs

      tell ya what, there is a way you can try to prove all your crap. Come over to my house and try to break in.

      We don’t have wrongful death lawsuits in my state if it was self/home defense. If its self/home defense the law here provides immunity from lawsuit for the defender.

      In my state we can shoot them if they attempt to break in, we don’t need to wait until they are inside. The law here provides immunity from lawsuit for the defender if they shoot them outside attempting to break in.

      There are even cases here where we can shoot trespassers or those stealing property and be immune from law suit. Not many people do it, but there have been three cases in the last 20 years where it happened. One was an 87 year old woman who lived by herself, she shot a guy trying to steal her outdoor heat pump unit that was under her bedroom window. He woke her up when he bumped against the window, she grabbed her gun and fired at him through the window where he was nicely framed. Here, his bump against the window qualifies as attempted breaking and entering if its connected to a felony in progress in proximity to a home entry point (stealing the heat pump unit). Sometimes trespassing or stealing property can be a felony and pose a threat that qualifies as making one fear for their life.

      In my state, we can use deadly force to stop any felony that happens in a place you have a legal right to be. The law here provides immunity from lawsuit for the defender in this case.

      • “And remember even if you manage to survive and kill the robber you can and probably will have to fight wrongful death lawsuits by the relatives of the innocent people you caused to get killed because you started a gun fight in a crowded restaurant. So being blind greedy over the loss of your watch would have been far cheaper than getting sued by multiple people.”

        “again a load of bs”

        not at all, he’s right. guys the civil court system is just as weaponized as the criminal court system and will eat you alive.

        • “…he’s right. guys the civil court system is just as weaponized as the criminal court system and will eat you alive.”

          Nope. Ah gots muh rats, and when actin’ inside muh rats, ain’t no way i kin be ‘rested; no way a court kin con-vict me. If’n yure be-ann righteous, you cain’t be hassled by nobody.

    • Wrongful death law suit? I’m really not very worried about such. Such law suits against individual citizens when the perpetrator is committing a felony are rarely won, by the criminal plaintiff. My personal property and my life are what is important, and apparently to your criminal friends who you so dearly wish to protect.
      As to your health care nonsense, this is the United States, not Europe where taxes have overwhelmed much of their economies. Italy, France, Portugal, Spain, Sweden (yes, Leftist-Socialist your beloved Sweden), Greece, etc. If you want “universal healthcare” move to Canada where many of their citizens come here for their medical treatment. Or better yet, Cuba or Venezuela. I’m sure you would be happier with your Communist compadres. You have a pretty good idea of what you can do with your ape analogy. Don’t you?

      • “Such law suits against individual citizens when the perpetrator is committing a felony are rarely won, by the criminal plaintiff. ”

        Consider yourself blessed to have money lying around to spend on your defense.

        Serious question: ever considered that risking a gun fight over inanimate objects declares you value stuff, over your life?

    • Why do Canadians go to northen border states to get MRIs, X-rays, CTs and other diagnostic procedures? They have the healthcare you deem appropriate, yet they come here. Something doesn’t add up.

      • We have been through all this before Paratrooper wannabe. And by the way those that do come here are traveling south not north, get off the bottle before posting.

        Those that do come here do not come here because they cannot get health care they come here because they have lots of cash and want treated for minor maladies that would put them not on the list of immediate need. The Far Right likes to spread lies that they come here because they cannot get care. That is bullshit and always has been bullshit.

        • Does Canada have the best healthcare system in the world?
          New research into the best health care in the world has found that Canada’s public health care system is among the best of the best. The data, compiled by U.S. News and shared in April 2021, ranked Canada in fourth place globally when it comes to our health care.Apr 18, 2021

          Why is Canada’s health care better than the US?
          Compared to the US system, the Canadian system has lower costs, more services, universal access to health care without financial barriers, and superior health status. Canadians and Germans have longer life expectancies and lower infant mortality rates than do US residents.

        • Where does the United States rank in healthcare?
          The United States ranks last overall, despite spending far more of its gross domestic product on health care. The U.S. ranks last on access to care, administrative efficiency, equity, and health care outcomes, but second on measures of care process.

        • No, It is because of the waiting time for diagnostic medicine. I have spoke to them, and those with the means will come here for life saving diagnostic care.

          “Contrary to popular belief among Americans, health care is not entirely free for Canadians. Dental, ambulance and many other services as well as prescription medications must be paid for out of pocket or they’re covered through a combination of public programs and private health insurance. About two-thirds of Canadians have such insurance.”

          “In citing those numbers in its 2015 report, “Leaving Canada for Medical Care,” the organization said difficulties in obtaining timely medical care at home is, increasingly, leading Canadians to seek it abroad. “It is possible [they] may have left the country to avoid some of the adverse medical consequences of waiting for care, such as worsening of their condition, poorer outcomes following treatment, disability, or death,” the report says. “Some may leave simply to avoid delay and to make a quicker return to normal life.”

          Canadians could expect to wait 9.8 weeks for medically necessary treatment after seeing a specialist in 2014, the researchers found, three weeks more than the time physicians considered to be clinically “reasonable.” ”

          And they are still coming now.

          Then again we were told Obama care would lower our healthcare costs. It didn’t, did it? In fact since Obama Care our health system has declined. Why is that? Why are we paying more and getting less? You don’t have the answer do you?

        • You have the unmitigated gall to besmirch the honor of a Paratrooper? Our health care system accounts for approximately 17.7% of our GNP. For some reason, people who have your favorite “universal health care” come here to the US for medical treatment. You Leftist-Socialist think that you can solve all the problems of the work by throwing money at it. No one is denied health care. No one. It is a violation of federal law to deny anyone health care. You Leftist-Socialists keep making that argument and it’s bogus as your ideology.

        • Dacian, If Canadian health care is go great, how come they cross the border in droves to get health care here that they can’t get in Canada without waiting anywhere from 6 months to a year and a half for a simple procedure?
          What is the source of your “New research”? The World Health Organization? ROFLMAOBT!
          Again, you Leftist-Socialist think that if you throw enough money at a problem, it will solve itself. It’s not what or how much you spend but how you spend it. Maybe you should move to Canada or Great Britain, if you think their system is so good?

        • Paratrooper wannabe

          quote—————-Then again we were told Obama care would lower our healthcare costs. It didn’t, did it? In fact since Obama Care our health system has declined. Why is that? Why are we paying more and getting less? You don’t have the answer do you?———-quote

          Paratrooper wannabe you are either complete fool or an abject liar and its mostly the latter. Obama never wanted Obama care but he took what he could get from the gangster criminal Republicans.

          Contrary to your usually far out right wing lies health care for most Americans did go down and it went down for me.

          Obama care also forbade the gangster criminals in the Insurance Industry from putting caps on your Insurance coverage which made your Insurance coverage a fking joke. Obama also did away with pre-existing conditions that affected everyone over 20 years of age and it even affected some people less than 20 years of age.

          Obama also extended coverage to children still living at home with there parent’s. NOW PATROOPER TRY AND LIE YOUR WAY OUT OF THOSE FACTS.

        • To Paratrooper

          quote—————Canadians could expect to wait 9.8 weeks for medically necessary treatment after seeing a specialist in 2014, the researchers found, three weeks more than the time physicians considered to be clinically “reasonable.” ”————quote

          Hey bird brain I was told I would have to wait 3 months for a consultation and then wait weeks more before treatment in the U.S
          OK PARATROOPER TRY AND LIE YOUR WAY OUT OF THIS ONE.

        • Dacian, are you trying to deny that Obumacare was sold to the American people with the claim that it would lower healthcare costs? Or are you deflecting form Paratrooper’s statement? Obuma the Phony pushed this “abortion” through Congress with the help of Nancy “two faced” Pelosi and her minions. If your healthcare costs went down it was because you are on Medicare are along with the rest of the dregs of society who don’t want to earn their way. But then again, how could your heath care costs go down when it’s the taxpayers who are footing the bill. FACT: The cost of insurance for the individual went up 200%, for employers’ provided health care insurance it went up over 300%. My own personal health insurance went up 325% and I’m a State retiree. Obuma did not put a cap on the maximum amount your health insurance would have to pay out. That was a REPUBLICAN idea that your Leftist Socialists stole from Republicans. Obuma the Phony should have NEVER extended the care of adult “children” who should be out on their own earning a living instead of sponging.
          If you had to wait 3 months to see a “specialist” apparently you were picking a doctor that many other people wanted to see as well. What is your point?
          And your insult of calling PARATROOPER a “wannabe” is paramount of the disrespect you Leftist-socialist have for those of us who have served.

      • By the way Paratrooper I was told on more than one occasion I would have to wait 3 months to see a specialist. And a friend of mine’s wife passed away waiting to see a specialist. Now tell us how great U.S. health care is. It is a joke.

        • The joke is on you. Apparently, you don’t know about the waiting time in Canada and Great Britain for getting even routine procedures from any where from 6 to 18 months.

        • “Hey bird brain I was told I would have to wait 3 months for a consultation and then wait weeks more before treatment in the U.S
          OK PARATROOPER TRY AND LIE YOUR WAY OUT OF THIS ONE.”

          Where did I comment on your individual situation? I never said you individually didn’t have to wait as you claimed. I commented on Canadians coming to the US for diagnostic procedures because of the wait they have in Canada for those services. Diagnostic procedures are not usually for minor medical issues, especially in the case of MRI which is a tool for diagnosing cancer among other severe issues. Personally, I have never waited beyond a week to see a specialist or to receive a diagnostic procedure. That is solely my experience and your experience is yours. Does either of our experiences deem the systems worth for all involved?

          I have not lied to you or anyone else on this forum. I have presented evidence for claims and offered my own opinion. I even began my first encounter with you civilly. That went to the wayside due to your conduct. You have the ability, or not, to return to civility. The choice is yours.

          Obama Care was an was a ill thought out and planned takeover of the healthcare industry. The insurance my company provided prior to Obama Care was good. Low premiums and low copays. After Obama Care we lost our previous insurance because the costs to the company to keep it was too great. So now we have higher premiums, higher copays and a more complicated system to navigate for regular healthcare. I have not met anyone who has said they paid less for healthcare after Obama care, I am not saying they are not out there, but like people without ID, I have never met one.

          Allowing insurance companies to offer their plans equally across State lines would have probably created a better situation for all. Competition drives costs down, a lack of competition keeps prices high. What good Obama care did was make preexisting illness not a reason for declining healthcare. That should have been done years ago along with allowing greater competition. In my case, my individual case, I was not denied coverage for a preexisting condition when I joined the company I work for now in 2004. So saying insurance companies 100% did this is wrong, I know of a few other exceptions as well.

          Do we have the best healthcare in the world? It depends on the metrics, and those metrics can be manipulated to get any result you want. Overall I believe we have a good healthcare system. We have some of the worlds best minds here trying to innovate systems for the patients health. By the worlds best minds, I mean people from all over the world coming here to innovate. People I have directly worked with in my field. People who say they are here because of our system and the things they learn here they take back to their home Countries to improve things. First and Third world places, and every system in between.

          You have to be able to see the good and bad in everything. If you only see utopia, which will never be achieved by any form of government or ideology, you will never see the good in anything. Nor will you be able to see the bad in what you perceive is better than what you perceive you have now.

      • quote————–Dacian, If Canadian health care is go great, how come they cross the border in droves to get health care here that they can’t get in Canada without waiting anywhere from 6 months to a year and a half for a simple procedure?——quote

        Hey Walt quit making a fool of yourself. That is the standard and laughable lie the Far Right always use and its a damned lie. People who have life threating illnesses damn well do not wait 6 moths or longer in Canada. Minor procedure’s you may have to wait for but remember genius boy in my case several times I was told I could not even talk to a specialist for 3 months in the U.S. So go peddle your bullshit to the far right Morons.

        Canadians who do come here to it because they do not want to wait on some minor procedure and they have the cash to do it. And Remember in my case in the U.S. I had not choice but to wait.

        THE REAL REASON THE FAR RIGHT DO NOT WANT NATIONAL HEALTH CARE IS THAT THEY ARE SO DAMN CHEAP AND STINGY THEY WOULD RATHER SAVE A PENNY TODAY IN TAXES AND THEN GO BANKRUPT TOMORROW WHEN THEY NEED A LIFE SAVING OPERATION. PURE GENIUS WOULD YOU NOT SAY??????

        • The “standard”? Where? The hell it is the standard”. I just called an ENT specialist last week and will be seeing the doctor Friday morning. The reson we don’t want your “universal healthcare” is because we are AMERICANS who have been raised to do for ourselves rather than having a nanny government doing everything for us from cradle to grave. If that is the way you want to live then you should go to another country. I am sure the Conservatives here would be glad to pay for your ticket provided that you promise not to return (and we want that in writing in the form of a contract).

  20. To Booger Brain

    Look Moron we are not talking about the police charging you with a crime, although they could on a variety of charges but we are talking of the lawsuits that would result and they would come from a variety of charges,not just wrongful death. And your idiotic claim that in your state you could not sue over wrongful death is pure bullshit.

    quote————In my state, we can use deadly force to stop any felony that happens in a place you have a legal right to be. The law here provides immunity from lawsuit for the defender in this case.———-quote

    quote————-We don’t have wrongful death lawsuits in my state if it was self/home defense. If its self/home defense the law here provides immunity from lawsuit for the defender.———–quote

    Wrong Moron we are not talking about the robber’s relatives suing we are speaking of the victims that were harmed because of your reckless disregard for human life in a crowned restaurant and all over property. You damn well betcha that there would be lawsuits.

    And again we were speaking about a restaurant shoot out not a home invasion. Quite changing the subject to suit your far right shoot em up agenda.

    I think the restaurant example is why European countries do not allow concealed carry.

    • Having observed your bizarre posts here for quite some time, I can only conclude that you inhabit another world, which is parallel but only loosely connected to this one…and in which quotation marks do not exist.

      I hope no one else is trapped in there with you.

    • Dacian, Speaking of morons, you have got to be one of the most Leftist-Socialist lemming type morons I have yet to come across. Robber’s relative can sue to their little heart’s content. They rarely collect a penny other than their lawyers getting fat at their expense.
      The Penal Law of each state spells out what is permitted under the law for self protection and the protection of personal property. When you commit a violent felony such as robbery, burglary, etc, you are the one who is subject to the results that you have brought upon yourself. Again, as I have told you before, your “wrongful death suits” when the plaintiff’s sure over the loss of their loved one felon rarely win anything but the expenses of their lawyers.

      • TO WALT

        Even if the guy suing you loses it will cost you thousands to defend yourself. Fifteen years ago my lawyer told me it would cost me between $50.000 to $100,00 for him to defend me in court if I shot someone even though I was justified in doing it and not charged with any crime by law enforcement. So go peddle your bullshit to the gun crazy far right Morons.

        • Dacian, Have you ever been in a court room? Other than as a defendant in a criminal case of course. I have many times and the plaintiff never collected a nickel. I was indemnified by the Great State of New York. The cases were dismissed on motion before their was even a discover phase. (Do you even know what the discovery phase is? ) Please keep typing and make a bigger fool of yourself.

    • stop it. My sides are hurting too much from laughing at your stupidity.

      here, immune from law suit also includes being immune from the lawsuits in your stupid reply. You do know what the word “immunity” means, right?

      here, if its self/home defense or defense of another or stopping a felony in progress we do not have wrongful death lawsuits against the defender. Immunity means immunity. It also means no other charges related to or for the self/home defense or defense of another or stopping the felony.

      You seem to live on another planet.

      I’m not going to open fire if there is a chance of hitting an innocent bystander. But i’m also not going to let my wife or myself or someone else get killed or seriously injured by a violent criminal, and it kinda bothers me to say this but that includes you too if you were there. There are methods to move to contact that handles this well.

      No innocent bystanders would be hit by me unless maybe it was you but i’ll try really hard not to shoot you… ahhh heck, ok maybe a little bit just ’cause its you 🙂

      My god, is that what you think? That every legal gun owner is a crazed killer?

      You are in need of some serious therapy.

      Are you afraid of your own shadow too? Look, tonight when you put your power ranger pajamas on and crawl into bed, hug your Joe Biden plushie a little harder and chant “theres no place like home, theres no place like home” over and over again until you fall asleep. Hopefully, during the night that monster under your bed will get hungry.

      • To Booger Brain

        quote————–I’m not going to open fire if there is a chance of hitting an innocent bystander. ————-quote

        Look Moron you have never been in a gun fight in you entire life. But even so even a retarded Moron knows that if you draw your gun the bad guy is going to be firing away also he does not care who else gets hit with stray bullets. REALLY ARE YOU THAT DUMB BOOGER BRAIN. GEESH.

        • Speaking of morons, have you ever been in a gun fight? Do you even know which end of the gun the bullet exits? Clearly you don’t know squat about being in a gun fight. Paratrooper clearly stated, “I’m not going to open fire if there is a chance of hitting an innocent bystander.” Apparently reading comprehension is not your strong suit?

  21. There have been over 550 mass shootings in America this year. The republican motto for decades has been, “the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun”. Now someone please tell me, how many of these mass shootings did a good guy stop? Every year we see more gun violence and death and more guns on the streets. Even a clown can see the answer to our problem, isn’t more guns in the hands of more idiots. Texas has one of the most open gun laws in the country and they are now the state, with the most gun violence occurring. We are no longer the wild west and we apparently can’t control mass murderers and idiots any better than we could in the past. So the lie about good guys has failed the truth test, now let’s make sure guns are kept out of these peoples hands altogether, by passing stricter gun laws to keep more peaceful Americans alive. I am tired of seeing a child killed everyday, from guns or watching the rising number of deaths from guns on the news daily. So is the majority of America, again.

    • “Now someone please tell me, how many of these mass shootings did a good guy stop?”

      You saying that cops are bad guys with guns?

      How many of those “mass shootings” just stopped because the shooter tired, and simply left the scene?

      Where do you live that you see a child killed everyday?

      What the majority of America thinks is “too much” regarding a constitutionally protected is irrelevant. Unless and until that majority becomes large enough to get the Second Amendment repealed, “the majority of America” is just whining.

      You and your peeps are fond of declaring, “For the children; if it saves only one.” Well, here is a “saves only one” that demonstrates private citizens are justified by being armed:
      https://breaking911.com/alaskan-woman-shoots-axe-wielding-intruder/

      How many people who successfully defended their lives with a firearm, should be sacrificed in order to save, through civilian disarmament, one child?

      • To Sam

        quote—————-Where do you live that you see a child killed everyday?——————-quote

        Hey Sam turn on you fking TV some time the kids get gunned down daily. Seriously what planet do you live on??????

        • No, they don’t, and shouting your bullshit does not make it true. The only “kids” being gunned down are drug dealers and residents of Chicago. And even that is not daily by any means.

      • The Washington Times is a radical far right media outlet that is almost as bad a joke as Fox News. Most of their articles are pure far right wing distorted propaganda.

        • More pure unadulterated Horse Pucky. The Washington Times tells it like it is, as opposed to WAPO that is a propaganda organ for your Leftist-Socialist masters.
          Fox is another source that tells the truth. I’m sure you are not use to that kind of news. In case you haven’t noticed, no one thinks you have the intelligence of a moron.

        • To Walt

          You really went over the top on that one. Fox News has never won 1 news cast award. If you think they do not lie daily you never learned critical thinking nor do you watch and accredited news programs which by the way is a hallmark of the ignorant far right.

        • I don’t give a rat’s behind if FOX NEWS has ever won an “award”. From bobbleheaded Leftist-Socialists. The lies you, CNN, MSNBC and the rest of the the Leftist-Socialist Lame Stream Media, go unnoticed, you are out of your skull. Between CNN and MSNBC alone there have been so many times they have had to “walk back” a report, I don’t have enough finger and toes in my entire family to cover it. “Acceredited” By whom? You and your Leftist-Socialist masters? If ignorance were bliss you would be ecstatic.

      • The Washington Times is a far right nut case news media that distorts about everything they post. The Washington Times will tell you “losses can never be to high”. Try and tell that to the victims of gun violence some time.

        • The only people who “consider” the Washington Times to be a “far right nut case news media” would be your own Leftist-Socialist masters and their minions. You know people like you. Gun violence? ROFLAMOTBT! I have a red hot news flash for you. A gun can’t fire itself.

  22. This is what happens when Marxists run the city — the thugs are the street soldiers, They can be called BLM, or Antifa, or OED. It doesn’t matter. They are all the same.

    New Yorkers are defenseless because they choose to be. I know the way they think because I was born and raised in NYC and lived there for over three decades. Yes, some NYers have a brain in their heads, but most don’t. Fvck the smug bastards. They made their bed.

  23. The man who was shot was NOT killed. I also think the cops shot one of the suspects the other day. Not sure if he was hit or not and now too lazy to look since I looked up the other thing.

    People are being viciously assaulted and killed in NYC every single day now. And in some of the best, safest, neighborhoods. Often no gun is required.

    A woman was killed the other day after being knocked to the ground by a mugger who was fleeing with a phone he’d stolen from another woman. I don’t even think he knocked her down on purpose, but it was a fatally unlucky stroke for both of them.

    I grew up in NYC in the bad old days, and I can tell you all it was NEVER like it is now. My brother still lives there, but I wouldn’t go into the city on a bet these days.

    I hope Adams or Sliwa will do something to help that place. DeBlasio has pretty much brought it back to the brink of ruination.

  24. Chitcago is the same, the people are kept in utter chaos to keep them scared to death! Dems say everything they want to hear, but do nothing!

    • No its the Republicans that prevent Universal Background checks and safe storage laws. Both put a ton of second hand guns or stolen guns right into the hands of criminals.

      • “Universal background checks” are a joke. do you really think for a nanosecond that a criminal who can’t otherwise get a gun is going to the gun store or to a private person who will obey the law and do the background check? People who break the law don’t worry at all about getting a gun when all they have to do is go to the street and let it be known you are looking for a gun. No background check in the world is going to stop this kind of trafficing.

        • You are making a complete fool of yourself. The Brady Bill (which only vets new gun sales) in just 20 years (not all of its years) stopped 2.1 million gun sales to prohibited persons and if it was able legally to vet second hand gun sales the figure would have easily been at least 6 million. The flow of second hand guns up “The Iron Pipe line” from States with lax laws to States and cities with tough laws is putting tens of thousands of second hand guns right into the hands of criminals and psychopaths. Law Enforcement studies have proved this again and again. Chicago also did two of its own studies and verified what law enforcement has been saying for decades.

          Ever wonder why civilized nations have so much lower a homicide rate with firearms, its because they vet every gun and ammunition sale thoroughly. Its not rocket science.

          And do not bother mouthing the usual far right baloney that some people were denied that should not have been. Yes its true but now you are playing the numbers game claiming that we should throw the baby out with the bath water because the “kill rate” was not high enough or that since it was not 35,000 deaths a year but only 34,999 then lets do away with background checks. Now if that is not sick I do no know what would be sick.

        • Dacian, you are a jokester extraordinaire. Not one “background check” has stopped a single murder. And you can’t prove otherwise. If someone is going to commit a “gun crime” they will not go to the local gun store and buy a gun. They wil go to the street as I described above.
          Your comparison of handgun homicides here in the US vs “civilized nations” (sic) is bogus. Their overall homicide rate is no different from ours. We have your universal background checks” here in NYS and we still have a very high gun-homicide rate. Nice try, but that tactic is as old as sin and as hollow as your idea about “universal background checks”.
          What you really want to do is ban firearms of all kind altogether. Tll the truth and shame the devil. Using your philosophy, we should ban hammers, screwdrivers, saws, etc., as they are used to commit murder more often than firearms. How about banning automobiles?

        • To Walt

          quote—————We have your universal background checks” here in NYS and we still have a very high gun-homicide rate. ———–quote

          Quit making a fool out of yourself. Yes you have a high homicide rate genius boy because second hand guns that are not vetted come into large cities by the tens of thousands. How the hell do you think the criminals get their guns. States with lax laws funnel in thousands of second hand guns into states and cities with tough laws. Even a 5th grader can understand that.

        • Dacian, you really can’t be this stupid. Or can you? You see, the criminal don’t buy their guns at a retail establishment or from a law abiding citizen. The gun runners go from New York City to other states with fake (that is forged) identification claiming to be a resident of the state where the purchase is being made. The Federal Government has a background check system that: 1) in inaccurate, thousands of jurisdictions do not notify NCIC of the dispositions of the cases heard. 2) The mental illness of a purchaser is not in the system. It can’t be thanks to the HIPA law. Did you even got out of 4th grade?

        • Lil’d must believe in magic. How the flaming fuck do you think you are going to enforce your “Universal” background checks? With magic, right? Let’s say we find ourselves with UBC passed 10 years ago, fully in effect. I sell a gun to somebody and have no reason to bother with a check. How do you think you are going to know? Magic, right? WTF do you think you’re going to do about it? What a fool.

        • Walt you are one of the biggest bullshitters on this forum.

          In the first place if a guy had a fake I.D. he would not have to cross state lines to buy a new weapon. And if he did he and his cohorts could never even begin to funnel in thousands of new hand guns.

          And we were speaking of second hand guns not new ones anyway. So you Moron you just proved what I said that is that if indeed we have people with fake i.d.’s buying second hand guns then that is exactly what I posted.

          And you are claiming the Brady Check is worthless when they have stopped 2.1 million people in just 20 years from a purchase that did not pass the background check.

          You are also claiming that Law Enforcement made up the facts about the Iron Pipe line that funnels in thousands of guns to states and cities with tough laws.

          Once again you prove you nothing but a bullshitter spreading ridiculous rectum gas around.

          You must enjoy being made a fool of.

        • Dacian, You are the second biggest fool on the internet. I’m not sure who the first is but just in case there is one worse than you….
          You have failed miserable to come up with a source which proves that “universal background checks” work.
          Your “iron pipeline” is a figment of the Leftist-Socialist Lame Stream Media. And or course, you anti-gun radicals.
          Apparently your knowledge of how these fake ID’s have been made to look absolutely real is lacking to say the least. Some of the fakes look more real that the real ID’s. A gun store does not have access to the system to check a driver’s license or a state ID card. You are making yourself look like a box of rocks. But then most of you anti-gun types are not the brightest lights on the tree. Again for the second time, dummy, that system already exists here in NYS. And it does not work! Do you think for a nanosecond that an illicit gun dealer is going to go to the bother of doing a NCIC check? How stupid are you? 99% of the guns used in a “gun crime” , i.e.: a crime committed by a PERSON with a gun are done with either stolen guns (most often) or by guns purchased on the street from illicit dealers. Try it out yourself. Go to any street in the hood and let it be know that you have money and want to buy a gun. Trust me these illicit dealers wont do a NCIC check on your sorry posterior.
          the law enforcement you are talking about are a minority of law enforcement chiefs and commissioners (for your further edification a Police Commissioner is not a sworn officer but a political appointee).Please do yourself a big favor. Shut up!

        • To Walt

          Two different Chicago studies proved the average gun used in a crime WAS NOT STOLEN but were second hand guns that were on average 13 years old and had been through many hands many times and most came from out of state.

          Next time Walt before you make stuff up as you go along do some research instead of blowing rectum gas all over the forum.

        • to Walt

          quote———– Go to any street in the hood and let it be know that you have money and want to buy a gun. Trust me these illicit dealers wont do a NCIC check on your sorry posterior.————quote

          Walt quit while you are ahead. Now Moron where do you think these street dealers get their guns. Again law enforcement tracings as well as two Chicago studies proved the majority of the guns WERE NOT STOLEN but second hand guns that came in from states that had lax laws on guns. AND BY THE WAY if you are worried about stolen guns THEN WHY DO YOU NOT SUPPORT SAFE STORAGE LAWS which would cut way down on gun thefts that for the most part are smash and grab robberies.

        • Dacian, I’ll leave making a fool of yourself up to you. You are very adept at it.
          You allude to “two Chicago studies” but where are those “studies”? Who were they conducted by? When were the “studies” done? What was their sample? And what was the source of their “information”? Alas you don’t cite these “studies” but only allude to “them.” In your second missive, you lay claim that those guns were “NOT STOLEN”, again, NO SOURCE. What “law enforcement tracings” and by whom? Speaking of morons, you must think that we accept what you say at face value without a single source baking your “stories”. How do you know what my positions on “safe storage of firearms?” FACT YOU DON’T. All of my firearms, except what I am carrying at the time are secure. For reasons of SECURITY I will not reveal how they are stored or where. Again you make rash unsupported statements for which you are becoming famous. Most of us aren’t as gullible as you might like. There are a number of books you might like to get your hands on and read. 1) “A Few Common Sense Gun Laws by Christopher A “Kip” Crofts, 2) a series of books by Dan Wos, called Good Gun Bad Guy. If you bother to read them (sic) that should keep you busy for a couple of weeks. You Leftist-Socialist anti-gun radicals love to manipulate what studies that are out there to fit your anti-gun agenda. Sorry but your mouth wash isn’t cutting it. Again, I ask, do you even know which end the bullet comes out? I reiterate, when God passed out brains you thought he said trains and took the express out of town. The Conductor still is looing for you to pay for the ticket.

      • Daian, when God passed out brains, you thought he said trains and took the express out of town. The conductor on that train is still looking for you as you did not even pay for the ticket.

        • Fellow humans (or is it “hu-persons”?)….real trolls cannot be defeated through any form of engagement.

          First, the real troll (as opposed to the person with legitimate differences of opinion) is delighted by the recognition of being present. Second, the real troll is highly flattered to see their screen name attached to their comment, and any response. Third, real trolls revel in playing with themselves playing disruptor.

          Real trolls are not useful for honing the skills of 2A defenders, because the riposte of the real troll is simply more aggravation for the target. The real troll always wins whenever their dumarie drives a response. Engagement is oxygen to a real troll. Deprive the real troll of oxygen; let nature take its course.

          “You can’t win a mud fight with a pig; you just end up muddy, and the pig enjoys it.”

        • You make some very salient points. There is only one major problem with them.
          If you do not counter what these anti-gun radicals propagate, you risk others who are not as informed as we are, will fall for their drivel and think it is gospel because it’s on the internet.

  25. @LarryinTX
    “Not criminal consequences,…”

    Oh, but the nature of the consequences (legal or illegal results) are irrelevant. Do something stupid, and painful consequences fit right into “stupid people, in stupid places, doing stupid things, winning stupid prizes”

    No one has a natural, human and civil right to not bear the consequences of their actions. Using your example, if you survived every episode of wearing a Rolex in public, and believe you will always be immune to having it stolen because you wore it in the wrong place, fine, do that. I am not opposed.

    But don’t start whining about it if the Rolex does get stolen because you displayed it in the wrong place.

  26. Burying the lede there a bit: “A Manhattan cop opened fire early Monday at suspected members…..”

    And missed both bad guys and innocent bystanders? Thats not the quality of shooting we expect from NYPD.

  27. Gentlemen. Concerning dacian. We know beyond a doubt that he is mentally ill. Even when he knows you are right and he is wrong, and he does know this, he will still argue and insult.

    Do not waste your time or degrade the quality of the conversation here by engaging him.

  28. This place has become unbearable with the free range libs they have allowed to set up camp.

    It doesn’t need to be an echo chamber but everyone should at least be pro 2A and understand that what is legal in NJ isn’t the same as what’s legal in TX.

    This is the last time I come here.

    • “This is the last time I come here”

      doesn’t matter where you go, the dacians will follow you. you’ll have to make a stand sometime.

  29. @Texas Lady
    “I was not a gently raised girl.”

    There ya’ go!

    As an Aussie might say, “Good on ya’ Mate.” (Not actually certain a “Sheila” would use that phrase)

  30. @Walter E Beverly III
    If you do not counter what these anti-gun radicals propagate, you risk others ….will fall for their drivel and think it is gospel because it’s on the internet.”

    Insults, name-calling, vituperative outbursts are supposed to counter the gun grabber narrative? We can’t win on logic and data, the opposition is all about emotion. We cannot defeat emotion by being emotionally hateful.

    Smash-mouth politics is fun, once. Trump rode the wave into the Whitehouse, but that dog didn’t fly, second time around. The Dims ran no candidate, and won simply because Trump was too insulting, too vituperative. Biden ran on nothing but anti-Trump (as many many of us declared “anyone but Hilary” during the election in 2016) Judge the result (no, I don’t believe eight million votes were illegally produced; yes, there was fraud and corruption).

    Final note: gun grabbers do not need to refer to our comments to paint us as evil; they successfully make things up that their constituents want to believe.

    • You have heard that turn about is fair play? I will not be bullied by anyone. If you want to stand for it then that is on you. Apparently you think that being politically correct is the way to go. Not hardly. You bet Trump was not politically correct. He stood up to the name callers and the Leftist-Socialist with a dose of their own medicine. The DEMONcRATS won by stuffing the ballot box. Did you know that the Dominion voting machines have a “back door” for the manipulation of the results?
      I beg to differ with you concerning the defeat of Billery. People were fed up with the nonsense that she was pulling. The Left tired to insinuate that Trump was a tool of the Kremlin. It was pure unadulterated hog wash. I do believe that the last election was stolen by the Leftist socialists You are free to believe whatever you want. In Arizona, in Maricopa County the voter rolls were PURGED before the audit could be done.
      FINALLY NOTE To your FINAL NOTE. I again repeat If we do not counter what the Anti-gun radicals say, then the people in the middle who are waffling back and forth will accept the garbage they put out. Let me put it another way. I will not fight with one hand tied behind my back while they come at us with everything they have fair and foul.

      • “Apparently you think that being politically correct is the way to go.”

        Nope. As noted Trump (who I enthusiastically supported) did the un-PC thing twice: a win, and a loss. Doing the same thing over again, expecting a different outcome isn’t a winning strategy (again, Trump lost by repeating his smash-mouth tactics (enjoying “turn about is fair play” is one thing, winning is the only thing).

        “If we do not counter what the Anti-gun radicals say, then the people in the middle who are waffling back and forth will accept the garbage they put out. ”

        Not opposed to that at all, except….when you want to engage in a street fight, be sure your gang is bigger and more powerful than the other gang. Winning is all that matters, not getting revenge for every pin prick.

        Just like with pro vs anti gun gangs, there are not enough middle/unaligned/independent/undecided/ unicorns to swing the needle. Without persuading a large number of the already committed anti-gunners, we have no way to win general elections.

        Politics is more important than “getting even” for past (and current) treatment of the rabid Dim party. It is enormously amusing that so many anti-Dims never notice that Trump had no real coattails (a chronic problem for outsiders (see Minnesota; Jesse Venturs – one and done). Most of the national office holders who did not assist Trump before are still in office, and must defend against both Dims, and fickle Repubs.

        My friend, there are no moral victories, only victory or loss. “The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; neither is the bread to the wise, nor the wealth to the intelligent, nor the favor to the skillful.”. The race goes to the winner, not the most qualified.

        BTW, Repubs should hammer the Dims with their statements, policies, crimes. But simple bad manners is not persuasive. If the people who want our votes can only come up with nastiness as a strategy, the Dims will win the presidency in 2024. The mid-term elections could turn our way (as historically happens), but note that in presidental years, the reversal seems to reverse, or come close enough to strangle the president for two years, at best.

        Are you not at all curious how it was that with Trump presiding over the most gainful years for minority groups in terms of economics, a no-candidate was able to win the presidency? And….if the no-candidate party win was entirely gained through voter fraud, where is the Repub plan to ensure that cannot happen again? Why is the RNC still run by the babe who was not prepared for voter fraud to take down a then political outsider? Why are the Repubs not talking about how they will ensure voter integrity in future?

        Nothing written here will have an effect on the outcome of voting just because some dims try to use our words attract unicorns.

      • HERE IS A RED HOT NEWS FLASH FORYOU. Politicians need to say what they mean and mean what they say. So you voted and supported him. You Apparently don’t care for what you term “smash mouth”. Too bad. I guess you think and 1-1 record is not good? Heck, Hillary is 0 for how many? I firmly believe that if you don’t counter their trash talk with our own, you are kowtowing to being bullied. NOT ON MY WATCH! As to your “coattails”? Seems that those who backed Trump are still in office as well. I guess that cancels out our position. Playing willy nilly is just plain cowardice in my humble opinion. I learned as a child that if you turn the other cheek, you wind up getting that one slapped too. I learned the hard way as most lessons that stick are learned. In politics as well as life, nothing is guaranteed, except death and taxes and hopefully not in that order. When I fight, I fight with facts when I can but am not afraid to call it like it is.
        Ah, I’m not your “friend”. I don’t know you as you rather than using your true name, use a pseudonym. I kind of gravitate toward people who stand up and can be counted as to who they are. Not hiding behind a fake name.
        I’m also a staunch Conservative who supports the Constitution unabashedly. In other words, it is to be followed as written, not interrupted.
        The DEMONcRATS won the last election by keeping Sleepy Joe in his basement where he belongs. The DEMONcRATS kept repeating lie after lie and the gullible public assaulted with these lies with the support of the Leftist-Socialist Lame Stream Media. Now if you don’t like my tactics, that is on you. I’m not going to kowtow to anyone or anything.

        • If you are talking about being “bullied” on this website….

          You can’t be bullied here. Reading and responding is your own choice. You are prolonging the unnecessary. Don’t contend with trolls, and your life is much more pleasant; that’s it, that’s all. Trolls cannot be dissuaded. They win just by triggering a response; they have no intention of changing your mind, only aggravating you. “Kowtow”? That you are; trolls are leading you around by the nose. I have no objection you to playing with trolls, but you certainly have better things to do.

          Coattails? No. Trump was strangled by the majority of Repubs. It wasn’t Trump supporting Reps and Senators who resisted Trump’s agenda to the point that with control of government for two years, the Repubs ventured nothing like the radical agenda of the Dims. Those Trump supporters who are still in office are much fewer than you think. The “never Trump” cabal is still alive and working to stop Trump again.

          The voters of the nation had two chances to elect Trump; he didn’t win. If you think the election was stolen, fraudulent, what are the Republicrats doing to stop it going forward? What is Trump doing going forward? One and zero election count is/was entertaining, but 2 and zero was the goal.

          Trump could not/cannot carry the entire House and Senate on his back. The hatred of Trump is visceral. If all we got is “smash mouth” as a campaign strategy, the Dims will win the presidency again. If Repubs hold both House and Senate, they can drastically slow the drift into ignominy of the Republicrat Party, and the nation.

          Repeating a losing strategy cannot produce a victory.

          Neither will insulting your allies.

        • SAM I AM. Pure Unadulterated Horse Pucky. Have you been paying attention to the name calling by DACIAN? Or have you just ignored it. Trolling is bullying, when you are called a “moron” etc.
          My life is pleasant enough. I don’t need a guy who uses a pseudonym to hide to tell me to make things pleasant. (Geesh!) I’ve never kowtowed to anyone, you included.
          Your interpretation of “coattails” is kinda skewed. Trump had a number of people he supported that WON! You think that there should be bobblehead response to each and every position that Trump took.
          As to a “loosing” tactic? Apparently you forgot who won in 2016? 1-1 is not losing. You seem to expect a victory each and ever tie you set foot out the door. That is not the way life is. I would rather have a candidate who says what he means and means what he says than a mealy mouth.
          Apparently you are one of those people who “loves-hates Trump.
          I don’t consider you and ally. More like a critic who can’t seem to a) step out as who you are and b) a wishy washy type.
          Move on!

  31. @Walter E Beverly III
    “Have you been paying attention to the name calling by DACIAN?”

    No. Why do you?

    Nothing trolls say is of any intelligence, intellect, or importance. I just delete the comments before reading. Trolls don’t influence me at all.

    “Move On”. Yes, it is time for people to move beyond political tactics that don’t win. And yes, if you aren’t winning, you are losing. Dims expect to win everything, all the time. Why shouldn’t their opposition have the same intention and expectation?

    There is no virtue in fighting the good fight, but losing. As noted before, there are no moral victories, only victory. To paraphrase a great general, “There is no substitute for winning.” The Dims elected a no-candidate president. That was an exercise in raw political power. I will vote for Trump; no question. But, if Trump is the entire Republicrat strategy, we will lose again. If Trump is the only way we can win all three branches of government, we have no need of party, nor party leadership; just let Trump be Trump.

    Keep in mind that the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact remains a threat to Trump, and all his voters.

    • Then maybe you should! I don’t take “shi*” from anyone. Especially from a Leftist Socialist. If you want to to kowtow to this POS by all means that’s on you. NOT ON MY WATCH!
      It’s not a question of the “intelligence” of the comment made by this wannabe, its that there are PEOPLE OUT THERE who will pay attention and be bobble heads if it is not countered. That is why we have a problem with these stupid dumbass laws being passed in DEMONcRAT states. When I tell you to MOVE ON, I am telling you to forget your kowtow attitude as it doesn’t wash with me. The British Air Service has a motto, “Who dares, WINS” If you think that everyone will understand that the DEMONcRAT rhetoric is full of poppy cock, then you are sadly mistaken. Unlike you I’m not one to back down from a good fight. It’s people like you that are causing our side to lose and lose big. Stand on your own two feet and fight for what you believe in. If you can’t or won’t do that, then you don’t really believe. the “National Popular Vote Interstate Compact is not the problem. It’s people like you without the guts of your convictions.

      • What is the value in letting a gnome with no name send you into a fury? Nothing can be gained, except your own discomfort.

        According to half the population, I am a member of the “basket of deplorables.” Doesn’t bother me in the least. And no, by ignoring idiots, I am not kowtowing to anyone. I am at peace, happy, and living life to the fullest. The anti-deplorables have no joy, no sense of humour, and are constantly angry that they cannot annihilate all the deplorables (by whatever means necessary).

        Trolls cannot lose, and persons responding to trolls cannot win. You can always have your say, but trolls cannot be defeated, mitigated, or silenced. Trolls always have the initiative, and will leave only when they are no longer entertained, and not before; not because of any argument POTG might put up.

        Instead of pushing the boulder uphill, you could be spending time developing a skill, or producing information that you can share with the rest of us; reporting on developments we otherwise might miss.

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