Q honey badger sb tactical
Q Honey Badger pistol with SB Tactical pistol stabilizing brace (Jeremy S. for TTAG)
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Yesterday, John Crump published a report at Ammoland.com regarding a recent conference call between the ATF’s top brass and the “Biden transition team.” To be clear, no matter what you may read in the media, Joseph Robinette Biden Jr. is not yet the president-elect. At least not yet. None of the 50 states have certified their election results and the electoral college isn’t due to vote until December 14.

That made the conference call in question both premature and inappropriate. We’ve talked to people with direct knowledge of what was discussed on the call and can confirm Crump’s report that the higher ups at the ATF told the Biden boys they want to target two items should their boss occupy the oval office in January. Number one on the hit list is pistol arm braces and number two is 80% lowers.

The people we’ve spoken to confirm that the push to ban these items is coming from the top two seats at the ATF — acting Director Regina Lombardo and Associate Deputy Marvin Richardson. Also on board with banning these items are three members of the bureau’s general counsel’s office — Chief Counsel Joel Roessner, Deputy Chief Counsel Pamela Hicks and Associate Chief Counsel James Vann.

AR-15 80% lower
Dan Z. for TTAG

Both of these items have, of course been legal for manufacture and sale to the public for years. The ATF itself approved the sale of pistol arm braces eight years ago. Since then, millions have been sold and hundreds of people in the industry have jobs that are based on the manufacture and sale of braces.

As for 80% lowers, it’s always been legal for Americans to build their own firearms for their own use. Only a couple of state require serialization and registration of home-built guns now.

An 80% lower is a partially-finished block of aluminum. The buyer is then required to drill and mill the lower to make it functional for use as part of a pistol or rifle. If 80% lowers are banned, would 75% lowers still be legal? How about 70%? Will we have to regulate the sale of all billet aluminum in the country in case someone decides to use it to fashion a gun?

To ban these items, the ATF would have to reverse itself, doing a 180 on scores of opinions and rulings it has been issuing regarding these items for years. Of course, that didn’t stop them when they were ordered by the Trump White House to regulate bump stocks the same way as they do machine guns.

What such a ban would look like is anyone’s guess at this point. They could ban only new sales of the items, letting current owners keep and use them. Or, they could ban their possession, as was done with bump stocks, requiring owners to turn them in or destroy them.

Either way, if Biden is inaugurated and orders the ATF to ban these items, it will touch off a new round of lawsuits from gun rights orgs and owners of the newly-verboten equipment. Thousands of them will soon be sitting on lake beds all across the country.

In the mean time the White House apparently has the detail of what was discussed between the ATF brass and the Bidenbots. The President would be well within his rights to clean house at the ATF, just as he’s recently done at the DOD.

That, of course, would be a calculated risk. If the court challenges and recounts go his way, he’d be able to install replacements that have more respect for the rule of law, not to mention the right to keep and bear arms. But if things don’t go his way and Biden takes office in January, the replacements could well be worse than the asses that are currently in those seats.

It’s a great time to be alive.




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  1. With this news it is clear Trump needs to fire the brass at ATF. I thought this was something that he needed to do when the news about the pistol braces came out earlier. Now it’s clear.

    • Man, it is SO hilarious that people like you continue to think that Trump cares about the 2nd amendment. He doesn’t care about you or your rights at all, for that matter. Trump did more harm to our gun rights than Obama, and did it for CHEAP political points. Donald Trump cares about Donald Trump. That is all.

      • That’s just dumb and not supported by the facts. Donald John Trump loves us and will run again in 2024. Apointing those turn-coats at the ATF was just a slip-up of some aides, our President is a very busy leader!

        • It..it literally is though. I know you blindly support Drumpf no matter what, which proves how much you AREN’T a true 2A supporter.

          I’d say go bury your head in the sand but you clearly live there already.

        • He loves the 2A community so much he passed more anti-2A policies than Obama. How’s that for facts?

          Get your head out of the sand. It’s embarrassing to watch.

        • He is an unreliable psychopath – he did shit for the 2A. Unconstitutional bump fire stock ban, no hearing protection act, no country wide valid concealed carry laws. What else did this bigmouth promise and not keep? I would have gladly voted for ANY other republican, but I honestly don’t expect the new president doing more damage to the 2A than Trump did.

      • Still better than Hillary, and far better than the prospective commander in thief and the harpy who will push his wheelchair down the stairs to take the Presidency after. People like you are fools of the first order, paid trolls, or both.

        • That’s like them in central Africa asking “Long sleeve or short sleeve?”

          He was less bad than Hillary, for sure. But he’s not a friend to the 2nd Amendment or the U.S. Constitution as a whole (then again, it’s been a long while since we’ve had a president who was).

        • At this point I really just vote for the person who I think will be the least damaging to our constitution and rights. I can’t vote for who I want to vote for because they can’t get past the media’s love of creating lies and half truths. Trump was literally the least of 3 evils (Harris being the other since Jo was worthless).

      • “Trump did more harm to our gun rights than Obama, and did it for CHEAP political points.”

        There are *three* new seats on the SCOTUS that are laughing at your stupidity, ‘mitch’.

        As usual, you and your little fuckwit ‘friends’ are talking out of your ass.

        You must really like the smell up there… 🙂

    • Yeah, that’s it!

      We should elect Trump so he can drain the swamp at the ATF!

      Good Lord, you people are such rubes!

      The big city scam artist continues to snooker rural Jethros.

      It’s like I’m stuck in a rerun of Green Acres.

      • You aren’t stuck, you can leave anytime you like. Could probably get the “rubes” and “jethros” to pay your way out.

  2. “The President would be well within his rights to clean house at the ATF, just as he’s recently done at the DOD.”

    As it is not a constitutional agency, gut it down to the pencil sharpeners and broom pushers.

    • “The President would be well within his rights to clean house at the ATF, just as he’s recently done at the DOD.”

      Oh yeah, isn’t that what he was supposed to be doing for the past four years?

      And Trump has indeed moved to install loyalist agents in the leadership of the DOD, dictator wannabe preparing for his military coup.

      So much for the constitution and its orderly transition of leadership.

  3. This will be interesting, as far as it concerns my AR pistols with braces that I assembled from 80% receivers. That is, *if* Biden were to occupy the White House.

    But looks like Trump is releasing the hounds and implementing his legal challenges in a salvo of court actions. I’ll sit back, crack open a beer, and count down until Trump wins and the Left commences their Skyscream Redux.

    At which point I might actually need those ARs.

    • “Trump is releasing the hounds and implementing his legal challenges in a salvo of court actions”


      Your salvo fell short, the judges tossed all your court actions because the plaintiffs presented no evidence to support their vague claims of fraud.

      • Thank you for that chuckle, Miner. I’ve archived your comment above and will post the link to it as a reminder of what you said, when Trump is inaugurated into his second term on January 20.

        • Let’s make it interesting by placing a friendly wager.

          How about Woodford reserve, I’ll send you a bottle if Trump is inaugurated on June 20, 2021.

          Biden? Drinks on you.


  4. I don’t expect Trump to do a damn thing for gun owner’s. Would being 100% for 2A right’s brought a presidential victory??? It sure didn’t help him with bump stock bans,”silencers-I don’t like them” and “you’ll lose everything if don’t vote for me”. Not to mention no effort for reciprocity,nationwide carry hearing protection! Stock up and resist…

    • I’m not a fan of Trump but still voted for him. But honestly, the man has been besieged his whole term, with almost useless allies in the Congress. It’s a small miracle he accomplished anything.

      • True. The republican establishment despises him. Some changed their tune once Trump was in office just as a matter of political survival. They’re ready for Trump to leave and get back to business as usual.

    • Stop with the national reciprocity crap. No bill was ever presented to Trump to sign, and no bill was presented because there were not enough votes in the Senate to stop the filibuster. The Senate had at best 53, maybe 54 votes, but it needed 60. There was not a single Democrat in the Senate who would go against Schumer or Pelosi, since none were willing to commit political suicide. (Yes know Pelosi is in the House, but she still wielded massive political control back then.)

      And that is without even discussing the questionable constitutionality of such a law, a challenge that would have been sure to arise.

      • “And that is without even discussing the questionable constitutionality of such a law,…”


        The 2A doesn’t mean the right to keep and bear arms applies to every state in the nation?

        Doesn’t state ‘incorporation’ cover that?

  5. the MOST biden could do on braces, without congressional action, which ain’t comiing, is declare them AOW of some kind, or SBR of some kind, depending on the brace – – and at that point, there would have to be some sort of amnesty for them, which I don;t know how you have an amnesty for ONLY brace AOW or brace SBR, so, in effect, it would be an open AOW and SBR amnesty, and I don’t know how you legally limit the amnesty, under existing law, to only AOW or SBR…. things might get interesting. I almost HOPE they do this nonsense, I can see the lawsuits over it, very uncomfortable ones for ATF

    On the lowers – its not hard, make whatever standards you want, what exists is not NFA anyway, and people can challenge that in court, and lose unless the supreme court takes it.

    • It is really easy… just declare that braced pistols have always been AOWs or SBRs and that the ATF just got it wrong all these years. This is exactly what they did with bump stocks.

      In their gracious kindness they will allow you to turn them in/destroy them instead of charging 4 million Americans with the felonies they have unknowingly been committing for 8 years. Just like bump stocks literally 0 braces will be turned in.

      There will be no NFA amnesty period, just like there was no amnesty period with bump stocks.

      There will be lawsuits, and the courts will deny them all, just like bump stocks.

      • ” …just declare that braced pistols have always been AOWs…”

        I would have no problem with a five-dollar stamp…

        • $5 tax stamp to transfer an AOW, but it’s still a $200 tax stamp to make an AOW. The tricky thing is if you already transferred/made it there is no way to retroactively register it without an amnesty.

          See what happened with Fostech’s SBV. They couldn’t just slap a longer barrel on them. They had to replace the entire receiver, because once an unregistered NFA item, always an unregistered NFA item.


        • I suppose you wouldn’t have a problem to pay a $5 tax on practicing a religion deemed dangerous and not in common use, and one that many would argue requires common sense laws in place to protect the children.

          Slippery slope man. To see if you’ve compromised your values, apply the same logic to other areas and if the same methodology sounds absurd when applied to something else that’s a human right, you’ve got a nasty case of cognitive dissonance going on.

    • “I almost HOPE they do this nonsense, I can see the lawsuits over it, very uncomfortable ones for ATF.”

      We attack it in court under the Americans with Disabilities Act.

      The Leftist scum were kind enough to put real teeth in that law, and we use that against them.

      And imagine the optics of thousands of disabled folks, with maimed or missing limbs, descending by the thousands on Washington, DC, demanding they be heard.

      The ADA is most likely our best way to attack that bullshit…

      • Geoff, using the ADA against the libs and asking injured vets to protest in DC May be the most genius thing I’ve read on TTAG.

        • They fight dirty, that’s a free pass for us to return the favor.

          “Make the enemy live up to their own rules”…

        • Oh I can just see all the mass media covering the ADA angle that would make Biden look bad.
          Uh Huh.

          And Google and social media will snuff the story.

          1 out of 20 people will know about it at best.

    • “Good luck getting compliance.”

      Fear not.

      If they find you with one, you will wish you had complied with that law… 🙁

    • They don’t care much about compliance. Ban them, they aren’t for sale anymore. You won’t be able to sell the guns or buy new ones, or use them in public. If they get someone on a red flag or domestic charge and have these illegal AOWs, bam, you’re sunk. As time goes by they fade out by attrition, and anyone not complying will at least keep their head down and stay out of trouble.

      If they are illegal, what is the point anyway, they are only popular vs a stock as a compliance piece that doesn’t need a stamp. If you were going to get a stamp or refuse to comply why not a stock instead of a silly brace?

      Between limiting “import as pistol” guns and banning braces, short and handy rifles and pcc guns pretty much go back to being 16″ only guns and the occasional SBR.

      • How would you know that a braced pistol wasn’t SBR’d?
        I will assume the guy in the next lane to have got a SBR filing for his braced pistol just like I already do when I see them using a conventional SBR.

        Unless you think that they would go the extra fascist step and say that you can’t use a braced stock as a stock on a legal SBR.

        • What i do think is that all it takes is one Karen or one off duty city cop at the range walking over and demanding to see your tax stamp that puts an end to the “wouldn’t everyone assume it’s legally an sbr snd leave you alone?”

          And I could easily see an anti 2A cop doing this.

        • Maybe an off duty anti 2A cop but not a Karen. Karen’s do not generally understand the intricacies of this nation’s firearms laws. Or even try.

  6. Imagine being the type of person who wakes up each day as asks “how can I fuck with a whole bunch of people who aren’t hurting anyone today?”

    • People literally brag about doing that on twitter every day. These people are so full of hate, they get off on making other people miserable. Misery loves company.

      • You are so right, here’s one now!

        “If I was Trump I’d be looking for every hot-button issue like that to fuck with the Leftists”

  7. If worst comes to worst, I’ll just SBR mine with the stamp.

    And if it gets struck down, the remedy we sue for is a refund for the stamp.

    Personally, I hope someone is whispering in his ear that Trump needs to re-open the machine gun registry with a stroke of the pen…

    • That would be fun just watching the Leftist Heads explode! It is already in the law to boot so nothing they could to stop it. How many auto sears could modern companies turn out in 90 days?

        • “If I was Trump I’d be looking for every hot-button issue like that to fuck with the Leftists.”

          There’s where we are different, I wish he would actually perform the duties of a president and attend to the nations security rather than spending his time on his golf course.

          Trump has not attended a national security briefing since October 2, and he’s completely ignoring the COVID-19 pandemic, with 140,000 new infections and 1400 new deaths just yesterday.

          Typhoid Trump is a failure.

        • That’s exactly what he’s been doing for the last 4 years. And that’s exactly why he’s accomplished almost zip.
          A horrible strategy

      • That would be awesome except someone would buy them all up and sell them on auction sites for $5000 each. Which, granted, is a good deal compared to the usual going rate… And that is the sad truth of the Hughes amendment.

  8. To be fair, President Trump has not really had a normal first term. I’m not saying he’s the second coming. He’s got flaws just like I do..different ones to be sure, but still one should allow the first guy/girl who is flawless to chunk a rock at him if they insist.

    The entire Russian collusion thing, Impeachment over what I still haven’t figured out, the MSM even targeting his kid and wife. Yes, he took the easy way out over bump stocks and the Suppressor legislation died at Vegas with a bunch of citizens on the ground.

    But to be fair, when has he had a moment of peace to address our minority’s concerns(POTG)? We’re lower on the totem pole as compared to say..getting us out of the WHO, and the IRAN BS…Pulling troops out of Afganland, telling NATO to pay up. Dealing with the Left’s crap in the cities..(minefield right there, watch your step)

    Now Pedo Joe calls for unity? Yeah, NO!

    I totally agree that the 2nd Amendment should be without question supreme over anything else, but that’s not what we got.

    Just sayin..

  9. Hahahahahahahaha! Oh man, this is too fucking rich.

    This whole “dark winter” is gonna be pitch motherfucking black.

    • “This whole “dark winter” is gonna be pitch motherfucking black.”

      The last time the Leftists ‘Reached for the brass ring’ with sweeping change (Obama’s ACA), they paid for it *dearly* at mid-terms.

      And speaking of the ACA, there’s news in that department.

      SCOTUS oral arguments were heard a few days back, and there are indications they may rule to strike down the mandate, but leave the rest intact. Without the mandate, it will collapse under its own weight.

      (I know the president made the penalty zero a few years back.)

      • Depending on where you lived, the whole Obama Care thing was a joke. In my rural area, there was a single provider, and the lowest cost single payer policy a few years back started at $900 with a $2500 deductible and went up from there for better coverage. The way I figured it, that means I’d have to pay $10,800 in premiums, then satisfy the deductible, before I ever had a covered claim paid out of the carrier’s pocket. I call that “catastrophic only” coverage. I went bare, and will be uninsured until I get Medicare next year.

        • “Premiums for HealthCare.gov Plans Are Lower for Third Consecutive Year

          Oct 19, 2020
          Affordable Care Act

          Today, the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) released a report showing the trend of lower premiums and increased issuer participation for HealthCare.gov will continue for 2021 year. The average premium for the second lowest cost silver plan (also called the benchmark plan) dropped by 2% for the 2021 coverage year and, when looking at states that are using HealthCare.gov in both 2020 and 2021, 22 more issuers will offer coverage in 2021, for a total of 181 issuers delivering more choice and competition for consumers.”

      • They paid for it in the next election, but the rest of us are still paying for all the damage they did, and will be for years to come. Seems like that’s the way it always goes when they get a full majority.

  10. So the agency that approved both of these items have decided that they want to ban them, they are going to wait until the president that was elected with the largest number of people voting against him in US history is the one that they have their hope set on, with a likely republican senate majority looking for a fight to shore up their base, with a 6-3 court waiting in the background itching to take up a 2A case. I’ll take those odds.

    • Get out the vote in Georgia! Especially to right-leaning swing voters. If the Senate falls, we can expect everything the Democrats dream of inflicting upon us: court-packing, firearms-prohibitionist laws like none ever before seen, and who knows what else.

    • “So the agency that approved both of these (under Obama/Biden) items have decided that they want to ban them (under Trump)”

  11. I do what I want. I listen to who I want. Anyone who disagrees with me is welcome to voice their concerns in person. No one ever does…

  12. This illustrates one of the biggest problems there is with Chevron deference. Courts are supposed to go along with a federal agency’s interpretation of a statute it enforces, even if it holds incompatible interpretations of the same statute to be correct at different times. So when they say that A=B, the courts are supposed to agree. And if they come back that afternoon and say A != B, why, they’re still right! It kind of defeats the purpose of codifying laws.

  13. 1. Bump stock lawsuits remain pending and proceeding.
    2. They cannot charge you ANYTHING to register the damn things, that would be a “direct tax” and unconstitutional. Thats why the original Form 1 and Amnesty 4467 forms were FREE to file. Its the making and transfer that is taxable under the NFA.
    3. A non-MG NFA receiver, it is well settled, can be un-NFA;d by removing the features that make it a NFA firearm. Other than a MG, a “receiver” is not an NFA item. Thats not an argument, thats a fact.
    4. I ALMOST wish they would make them AOW and not amnesty them. I would make a FORTUNE, as a CII, selling an AOW registered receiver for a $5 stamp, and changing the parts from the existing gun to the new one. I would have to hire people to help to the work. But I’d rather the gun business go broke than have that happen.

  14. Oh, as as to Chevron, in the THompson Contender case, Supreme Court made clear that Chevron did not apply to NFA classifications…..

  15. The ATF will have a lot of difficulty regulating 80% lowers for two reasons: 1) it is not a firearm at all, and therefore outside of its statutory mandate; and 2) ATF fairly recently dropped a criminal case against a party selling milled lowers because the definition of “firearm” assumes that the barrel and receiver are one unit, and as things currently stand with the regulations, the lower receiver is the “firearm ” and serialized part–but the lower lacks lacks a barrel or firing pin, and therefore lacks the ability to fire a cartridge without the addition of an upper; but itself, a lower does not fity within the confines of a firearm. True, this was a trial court case, not a binding appellate decision, where the court ruled that a lower was not a firearm within the meaning of the authorizing statute. ATF decided to dismiss rather than face the prospect of an adverse appellate court determination adopting the trial court decision.

  16. “If the court challenges and recounts go his way, he’d be able to install replacements that have more respect for the rule of law, not to mention the right to keep and bear arms.”

    After banning ‘bump stocks’, you think he’ll do anything FOR the Second Amendment?

    Ya’ll need to stop suctioning his flaccid cock, and get some counseling for that Stockholm Syndrome.

    • Right… do what we say, or we: raid your shop, confiscate your product, throw you in prison, close your business, and shoot your dog. Maybe someone gets an itchy trigger finger and just shoots you during the raid too. Maybe we just burn the whole thing down and kill your family.

      When the ATF law enforcement arm tells you to do something they mean it. You might win in court, but you don’t get those years/millions back (or your dogs).

      I’m sure it was a totally amiable settlement…

      • its the “special agents” that kick in doors, etc.

        “Special Agents” don’t negotiate settlements and resolutions, lawyers do.

  17. Trump is no one’s friend. Not gun people, that’s for dam certain. These are his people at ATF pulling this shit. Think about that. People Trump put there making plans to fuck us up the ass first chance they get.

    • Not surprising. His nominee for director was a pro-“assault weapon ban” police union officer. He was so bad the Senate Republicans rejected him, and there isn’t a current BATFE Director.

  18. Oh no, Trump must save us all from these terrible appointees!

    But what’s this? Guess what administration appointed Regina Lombardo? The very same that was not only complicit with, but in favor of the LAST power grab (to ban bump-stocks) which played out in the same way. That’s right, Barak Hussa… no, it was Trump. Trump put these people in charge and left them there as the ATF has pulled this again and again.

    But keep on believing. That’s what a cult is about.

    • Yes, sad isn’t it.

      And they are fighting hard to keep the New York city slicker in office so he can take more of our rights.

  19. Should be challenged under the ADA. I know disabled folks that use braces as intended.

    I blame youtubers constantly shouldering braces. Bragging about NFA workarounds etc. That tool MAC with his NFA nut kicker video didn’t help.

    • “I blame youtubers constantly shouldering braces. Bragging about NFA workarounds etc. That tool MAC with his NFA nut kicker video didn’t help.”

      Exactly, their need for ego gratification far outweighed any sense of community with people of the gun or their discretion.

  20. Whether Trump wins or not. In 4 years we better figure out how to keep the Dems from cheating their way to victory or its gonna be a rough couple of decades.

    • They did not cheat this time and won’t cheat the next. Trump lost because he was a lousy rat and too many Republicans learned he was more dangerous than the Dem. Real simple stuff.

    • “In 4 years we better figure out how to keep the Dems from cheating their way to victory or its gonna be a rough couple of decades.”

      Election fraud won’t matter when you control the flow of information.

      “According to Ph.D. psychologist Robert Epstein (a professed democrat), his team of Google monitors captured evidence that between Monday, October 26, 2020, and Thursday, October 29, 2020, Google sent vote reminders to liberal users but not to conservative users. On Thursday, Sens. Ted Cruz (R-Texas), Ron Johnson (R-Wisc.), and Mike Lee (R-Utah) sent a letter to Google CEO Sundar Pichai demanding an explanation.”


      They need to stop demanding explanations and slap him with a perjury charge for lying the last time he was in front of congress.

      • And if it is

        Google and their servers are private property, and under the conservative supreme courts citizens United decision, google can spend any amount of money they want to promote any particular candidate without any sort of oversight.

        Does the term ‘private property rights’ ring a bell?

        I can understand why you conservatives are so upset, Q anon has gone dark and left you without your marching orders.

        • “under the conservative supreme courts citizens United decision, google can spend any amount of money they want to promote any particular candidate without any sort of oversight.”

          Does the term campaign contribution mean anything to you? Do your progressive buds know that you’re a free market capitalist?

  21. These are some of the worst comments I’ve read all year, and I spend a lot of time on reddit. You guys are messed up, at least get out of the house once in a while, sheesh.

  22. It is alarming all of the comments on here, especially the ones concerning “property rights” and such. None of you have a clue about law in general or the government’s powerful and unrelenting destruction. They produce nothing, They take everything. By force or threat of violence, kidnapping, extortion, theft. We will never win while it is the way it is.

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