Fostech sbv shotgun
Courtesy IV8888 and YouTube
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FosTecH is an Indiana-based maker of AR platform rifles, shotguns and triggers. They’re also the maker of the Origin-SBV not-a-shotgun firearm thing. Well, they were.


FosTecH designed the Origin SBV along the same lines as other not-a-shotgun firearms such as the Mossberg Shockwave and the Remington TAC-14. Those guns are classified as firearms under the Gun Control Act, but not regulated under the National Firearms Act.

The Origin SBV, however, featured a folding stock. That didn’t sit well with the ATF. In October, the regulator ruled that the Origin SBV is a short-barreled shotgun and a destructive device and sent this letter to FosTecH:

Fostech was hoping that replacing the folding stock with a fixed stock would change the ATF’s ruling, but…it didn’t. FosTecH got final word from the ATF this week that they will have to recall all Origin SBV 12 gauge firearms.

The company is going above and beyond to make the process as fair and painless as possible for its customers.

In response to the ruling, FosTech is sending the following letters to FFLs and owners of the Origin SBV, notifying them of their options.

Here’s the FFL letter:

And here’s the letter going out to retail buyers, giving them a variety of options for replacing their Origin SBV.

If you own a FosTecH Origin SBV, you’ll want to take advantage of one of the above options. Soon. If you’re found with an Origin SBV without the requisite paperwork and tax stamp, as Egon would tell you, that would be bad.

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  1. If you have one of these transfer it somewhere you can have them hold it then do the papers on it. These will probably be worth coin in a couple decades as most will be destroyed.

        • When you buy a weapon that was created to specifically circumvent existing NFA law don’t whine when the ATF takes your shit away with a new or changed ruling, just like this instance. You and the firearm manufacturer went and played in the grey area to avoid making, transferring or owning an SBS. The ATF can also play in the grey area, that area is where rulings are made. Long time NFA owners know this and don’t fuck around those areas, because getting shit like this confiscated is not new. Learn the difference between NFA/GCA law passed by Congress and ATF rulings that can change with a simple blessing from a DIO, the Director or the legal branch. Cry all you want, scream bootlicker but when you walked out the door with a SBV you laughed “didn’t have to get a stamp” so you knew there was fuckery abound.

        • “When you buy a weapon that was created to specifically circumvent existing NFA law don’t whine when the ATF takes your shit away with a new or changed ruling, just like this instance.”

          Circumvent? That’s like accusing someone for tax “loopholes” just by following tax law. The law is as it is stated. If you comply with it, you’re compliant, if not, you’re in violation. Doing the speed limit is not a speeding loophole. Law does just a handful of things among which are identifying process and procedure, and setting consequences for action or inaction. The trouble with this isn’t “getting around law”, it’s “this isn’t a shotgun, but we’re going to say it is a short barreled shotgun, just because we don’t know what to do.”

          You’re advocating people suffer consequences of monetary and property loss due to bureaucratic logic juggling when the property is compliant with written law – in other words, legal relativism.

          I wonder if they’ll change their mind on their ruling, and if so, how many times…

  2. Those guns are classified as firearms under the Gun Control Act, but not regulated banned under the National Firearms Act.

    There, fixed that for you.

    When government tells us that we cannot have something simply because government does not like us having it, that is not “regulating” it, that is banning it.

    This is your friendly reminder to STOP using Progressives’ incorrect definitions/language.

  3. Be real nice is the president would get off his ass and do something for gun owners. Like reign in a rogue agency. Excited to stay home in November.

      • “in the days of Elliot Ness” was under the fledgling Federal Bureau of Incompetence/Incineration,take your pick,as Department of the Treasury.

        • Prior to the establishment of the ATF on July 1st 1972, Firearms compliance was a part of the Department of Treasury (like the Secret Service), under the aegis of Revenue Labaratory (started in 1886). The Bureau was a part of Treasury, Revenue, Justice and the FBI (from 1933 to 1942)at various stages in its 100+years of infringing upon the 2nd Amendment history. Title XI of the Federal Crime Control Act pretty much made what we now know as the ATF (A-Holes Taking Firearms), and also gave them the power to regulate explosives as well.

        • I owned a bumpstock and alway wanted a Fostech. The ATF falls under the executive branch. Any superior is directly responsible for the actions of the people below them.

        • “Any superior is directly responsible for the actions of the people below them.”

          So he was responsible for the fraudulent FISA warrant application in June of 2017?

        • Yep.

          If he cant lead his branch he cant lead the country. Get off Twitter and work for your voters.

          He’s a traitor. I voted for him in 2016 and hes failed me. Voting for him is voting for a gun grabber and I have a thing called standards and principles I abide by. You may not have them but I do.

        • I don’t have standards and principles because I choose to exercise my right to vote while you sit at the house whining about your bump stock. Meanwhile the new upcoming democratic opposition makes Obama look like a conservative.

        • “Why not?

          Last time a Democrat was president I could own bumpstocks and the SBV.”

          So that means that it will happen again with the next democrat? You don’t think Hillary would have banned them after the Las Vegas shooting? Of course you know that she would have.

        • “you vote for a gun grabber.”

          I thought it was the wrong call, but bump stocks aren’t the center of my universe. I figured out a long time ago that you will never find someone that you agree with 100% of the time. It isn’t necessarily the correct answer, it’s the best possible answer. So between Trump vs. Biden, Warren, Sanders, Bloomberg, etc. there isn’t a correct or perfect answer, but there is a best answer.

        • Bumpstocks turned accurate MSRs into near-useless bullet hoses that made ammo budgets disappear.
          How many MSRs do you own Trollolol?

      • You see a few months ago it was just a bumpstocks

        Then it was a Bumpstock and the reformation

        Now its a Bumpstock, the reformation and the sbv.

        See a pattern yet?

        • Can anybody tell me what a bump stock is good for I don’t know because I can wast enough ammo without one and if it comes down to fighting I prefer the old one shot one down not spray and pray also give me a bigger round than a 223

        • It does not matter if it’s useful or not. It’s about anti constitution behavior and growing power of these agencies.

          Trump is a democrat and you don’t care.

        • “Truckman says:
          December 20, 2019 at 22:15
          Can anybody tell me what a bump stock is good for….”
          Bumpstocks are great at turning an accurate MSR into a USELESS “spray n pray” bullet hose.
          Nothing more then a range toy.

    • Only an idiot would not vote for Trump. While is has not been our friend, ALL others are our enemy and Trumps Supreme Court nominations is what really counts.

      Are you really that stupid to stay home?

      • Lol keep licking boots.

        I want the Feds to go full Virginia on us and pop this boogaloo off right I’m tired of this back and forth lets just settle it.

        • Agreed. What color coffin and what size coffin do you want. The Jack Booted Thugs in uniform will be glad to accommodate your wishes.

        • This times 1000. I will not vote Trump next November for precisely this reason. Better the Dems to at least throw we frogs in boiling water, rather than people like Trump who just gradually turn up the heat and pretend he’s with us.

        • This commie vermin thinks that people he calls “Jackbooted Thugs in Uniform” will fight for HIS side rather than stringing his treasonous ass up with piano wire.

        • Sorry but Im not Vlad.

          Vlad is literally telling me Im going to die and asking me what coffin I want you stupid twit.

          Unlike the orange beta male president we have I am a 2nd amendment absolutist.

        • “Sorry but Im not Vlad.”

          It’s hard to tell with all of the obnoxious and fake posters around here. They all sound about the same.

        • Ive been here longer than Vlad. I’m an absolutist with no exception. I’m sorry you support a gun grabber. Maybe youll grow a spine one day and be a real America .

          Probably not though.

        • I don’t any own MSRs cause thats a stupid fucking name. Modern Sporting Rifle is appeasement talk for gun grabbers. I dont need a sporting purpose to own a gun.

          My rifles arent for sporting they are for killing enemies foreign and domestic.

        • So you talk like the bump stock ban was some “tipping point” issue to prove “Orange man bad for Gun owners”, yet don’t own any firearms that ACTUALLY could have used a bumpstock? Ok troll
          Oh, curious, why the anger in the post? it’s an internet comment section.

        • You’re a giant idiot. I don’t use the term MSR because it’s a stupid term. Sporting purpose is a stupid thing and trying to call an AR a sporting rifle is saying I need a sporting justification to own it.

          My justification to own it is because it’s the best weapon for fighting enemies foreign and domestic not for sporting purposes. The 2nd Amendment isn’t about sporting purposes fudd

        • Troll – been out of momma basement since High School? Big world out there go talk to someone, go to an actual range vs on your Wii.

        • “My rifles arent for sporting they are for killing enemies foreign and domestic.”

          Just curious Private Pyle, is your 5.56 FMJ rifle named “Charlene” by any chance?

        • I wish someone would pop you, just spend all your time whining online I can fucking smell your sleep apnea from here you fat fuck. Someone should have you investigated under a red flag law you fucking whiny little bitch. Go dick ride Mayor Pete you fucking prick.

      • “My rifles arent for sporting they are for killing enemies foreign and domestic.”
        Yeah, ok chairborn ranger. You’ve been playing your X-Box “shoot em up” games too much now, put down the controller, and walk away from the monitor.
        Mommy need to tell someone to go outside and play a little more often.

        • “Ok boomer”

          Gen Xer you age discrinating MFer.
          How stupid is this troll, I’ve done EVERYTHING BUT provide my address, DOB, and SSN on TTAG just in the past WEEK.
          Go slip back into your coma.

        • Voted for Trump in 2016 & will also vote for him in 2020. I am a very conservative, 2nd amendment supporter & have used Charlton Heston’s famous words with law enforcement, “from my cold dead hands.” Granted, it cost me a few thousand bucks but I still have my guns & will gladly so my best to piss off another LEO.

          All of the above arguments about Elliot Ness & the Treasury Department & ATF, blag blag blah, quit using Google to find out shit to make your point. ALL of you that were having a pissing contest forgot that the ATF is now known as the ATFE. I may be out of line here but by any federal agency adding another letter to their acronym, I would say that there was likely 500 or more pages of documents that were included with the agency adding “Explosives” to their title.

          The person that is over ALL, EVERY SINGLE ONE, whether it’s a federal officer, state level officer or city/sheriff’s officer is the attorney general of the United States of America. Not the POTUS. Shit runs downhill fellas.

      • “Troll – been out of momma basement since High School? Big world out there go talk to someone, go to an actual range vs on your Wii.”

        Half-witted, lower case, more to the point. troll
        This Trollololololololol is too stupid to realize they outed themselves as a gunless troll, claiming they OWNED a bumpstock, then in the next post states “My rifles arent for sporting they are for killing enemies foreign and domestic.”.
        Yeah enjoy the accuracy of that bumpstock rifle while “enemy killing”.
        There trolls usually leave loose threads over time that trip them up, but in ONE thread, within a few minutes.
        We’re scraping the bottom of the troll farm with the talent assigned to TTAG.

      • I doubt he even owns a firearm MERLE O. Just another troll let loose on TTAG to sway the perception of gun owners by nons.
        When will TTAG get the “ignore” function?
        Not having one just makes TTAG THE place to troll ACTUAL firearm owners, and sway perceptions with an avalanche of passive aggressive trolling.

        • By spinning the REALITY that the “Bad Orange Man” was the better choice for POTUS in the ’16 election.
          So, which Dem Candidate is paying you troll? Or is it the DNC that’s cutting the check, just to pump the brakes on the Trump train in front of gun owners?
          Inquiring minds on TTAG want to know.

        • I voted for him in 2016 you twit. He proved to be a gun grabber voting for him in 2020 is an anti gun vote.

          Wht would a Dem pay me to be pro gun

    • “Excited to stay home in November.”

      Imagine that life was so simple for you that the only issues you cared about were bump stocks and small specialty shotguns.

      • I care about the 2md amendment and not one canidate running for President does. Voting for any of then is voting for a gun grabber.

        • I’m sure you’ll be much better off with a democrat. Keep doing nothing. That way we can listen to you whine more.

          Bad rulings like the one above might be settled in court. I’m sure you would prefer left wing activist judges that view the Constitution with disdain.

        • Again we less under Obama than Trump so far. The last Democrat took less than the current Repub.

          Even so, Shall not be infringed is clear enough to me. I refuse to vote for infringers.

        • Stacking the courts is playing the long game and is much more important to upholding the 2A than an administrative bump stock ruling. Staying home does nothing, but just keep telling yourself what a great patriot you are while you’re at the house insulting people on the net.

        • Id rather stay at home and insult people on the net than vote for a gun grabber.

          Let me know when the courts help the 2nd Amendment out.

        • I love when people act like we’d be worse off if a dem had won. We wouldn’t. We would be, at best, as bad off- probably better because the weak-kneed congress might not have buckled to BS so easily just because Trump tweeted something stupid that day. The GOP held every branch of government and did NOTHING for 2nd Am. rights. As to the courts, they’ve also done nothing. The proof is in the pudding. If they make some grand decision in the NYC case that goes beyond the technicalities, I’ll change my mind. But I doubt it…

        • Just curious: What does Obama have to do with any of this?

          Nothing. He’s just wistfully recalling the good ole days when Obama ran things, hoping for a new Obama to come along soon.

        • “I love when people act like we’d be worse off if a dem had won.”

          Most people have interests beyond bumpstocks.

        • Does interest bumpstocks include the two weapons banned this week? Or are we gon a ignore that?

          Oh youre like a fudd if it doesnt concern a weapon you have then who cares.

        • “Oh youre like a fudd if it doesnt concern a weapon you have then who cares.”

          Actually Troll, if you bothered to read my posts above you would see that I thought they were BAD decisions. I DO care about it, but it isn’t the hill I’m going to die on. I also said you will never agree with someone 100% so I choose the best available option. In my opinion, the best available option is to always exercise my right to vote, so I have to choose someone. By saying there is more to life than bump stocks, I’m referring to other issue outside of firearms. Issues most people think are important like the economy, national security, taxes, and judicial appointments (and not just for firearm related reasons). You act like a caricature of a gun owner running around accusing people you don’t agree with of being a Fudd.

        • “Id rather stay at home and insult people on the net than vote for a gun grabber.

          Let me know when the courts help the 2nd Amendment out.”

          You’re in luck. In about 5 months, the NY Pistol case is decided, and gun rights will be improving.

          Unless you seriously believe the Kagen 2 and Sotomayor 2 that Hillary would have seated on SCOTUS would be pro-gun.

          It was Hillary who proclaimed Heller -McDonald was incorrectly decided, and if she was elected 45th president, her court pics would correct that.

          There’s your reason to vote Trump right there, RBG hasn’t long to live. We need a court pick like Goresuch or Kav to really blow the 2A wide-ass open for gun rights…

        • Total line of BS Trollolol.
          Hildabeast made it clear she would do an Australian style ban/confiscation if elected POTUS.
          Pound sand and tell your story walking.

        • Pump those “Trump Train” brakes.
          So, who are you voting for now that Cameltoe H is out of the race?

      • ““Excited to stay home in November.”

        Imagine that life was so simple for you that the only issues you cared about were bump stocks and small specialty shotguns.”

        That “concern” of the Trollololololololol types is the tell that shows EXACTLY why they are here.
        Just trying to toss voters of the TRUMP TRAIN.
        Think about it, exactly what else do they have to argue their “ORANGE MAN BAD” claim.
        Just as the impeachment is a DOA giant turd, this “Trump bad for Gun owners” is dropped from the same sphincters, AKA, the Democrats mouthes.

        • If you like Trump more than you like the 2A thats your business man. But just remember you’re no better than a Dem on guns.

        • The argument of the extremes, forgo good in the quest for perfection. Classic Dimocratic thought pattern.
          It’s illogical for them to consider for a second that a vote for POTUS can be the “better of two flawed candidates. No “Orange Man Have TINY Flaw, Must Tell TTAG Commenters No Vote Him”
          Keep that retarded logic flowing trollolololol, you’re on a roll.

        • Again. I’m coming to a pro gun website to oppose an anti gun president. I’m not sure how you think me talking negatively about an anti gun president is not on topic for a pro gun website

        • And this is why our rights are already lost, people like you insist anyone who has doesn’t worship those who violate our rights is a “troll”. Your insistence on praising those who spend all their time taking away our rights guarantees that our rights are lost.

    • Don’t be an idiot! No vote is worse then your hurt feelings over Trumps actions. If you stay home your a bigger part of the problem then the Progressives you’ll be allowing to gain power by your inaction! You will suffer the same consequence ass the rest of us!

    • Yeah you know its funny everyone is against you here Troll and Chuck down there literally says he wants someone to “red flag” you. Haha! What a joke! When the “red flag” laws came up, it was about confiscating the guns and proving competence. Trump repackaged it and it became a “red flag” YOU law, where they CONFISCATE YOU instead! What a joke, all the Trumpers were happy with it!

  4. Any law where a government agency can ban things by fiat with no recourse is the definition of an unconstitutionally vague law.

  5. You know, even after reading a bunch of the stuff written above, I still can’t see how it makes anybody safer.

    Bureaucratic naval-gazing.

  6. Make me President and my very first two Executive orders will be to make the entirety of the USA & Territories a 2nd Amendment Sanctuary and abolish completely the BATFE.

  7. Just as I have said before the ATF rules at 8:00 A.M. and at 5:00 Pm it is now law. Its called a new regulation.

    • No, it is not a regulation. It is a rule which bans possession of an inanimate object.

      Regulations make things work well — and there is nothing about this new rule which makes firearms work better than they otherwise would.

      • “Regulations make things work well”

        No, they just make things work well for a select group of people. You know, the people that lobbyists work for. Most of them work like sh*t for the rest of us.

  8. The Origin SBV never came with a “folding stock” it always came with a folding pistol brace the Origin with the folding stock was always sold by Fostech as an SBS with all NFA laws enforced. Fostech was akways way behind demand for the SBV so very few were sold and recently people on GB were asking as high as $6500 for them, I’ve owned many of the 18″ barrel version and they always seemed too good to be true I mean if yu haven’t seen pics of the Origin 12 with a 30 round drum you should look it uo they are magnificent. NEXT BAN is the Shockwaves and Tac-14’s / Tac-13’s now that will affect a lot more people !

    • I believe this has to do with the changes in overall length measurement techniques over the last year or so. Rifles and shotguns are measured with folding or collapsing stocks extended. Recently the ATF “clarified” that they measure the overall length of other “firearms” with the brace in the folded/collapsed position. Fostech designed the SBV to be over 26” with the brace extended. If the SBV was over 26” collapsed it would be safe, that’s why Fostech thought changing from a folding to a fixed brace would save them. ATF believes that once something has been determined an NFA item it can never go back to being a normal firearm. Which is why they have to transfer to you a new receiver.

      Just another example of the ATF changing their mind in a way that is definitely not wanton or capricious. /s

      “I have altered the deal, pray I do not alter further…”

  9. Thank god trump is a big 2nd amendment supporter. no grandfathering in for people who already own them? What if I lost mine in a boating accident last summer and can’t send it back in?

    • I think almost every one produced was lost that way.
      It was a VERY popular anti-pirate firearm, even on tiny lakes/ponds all across America.

  10. There are plenty out there in the wild which are about to become interesting collector items. Of course you would need to be careful who you transferred it to some day but plenty of questionable guns are traded around.

  11. thats the problem with anything that uses a brace including my beloved 9mm AR… they’re one ‘ruling’ away from being judged SBRs.

    • Day one of the next Democratic administration, the ATF will reclassify all pistol braces as stocks and AR pistols as SBRs, mark my words.

      • And this is why the ATF should not be allowed to reclassify anything. Any reclassification of property legally purchased to an illegal item should be illegal itself. It is the very definition of depriving a person of property without the due process of law. Not one item classified as an NFA item has saved a single person with the exception of full auto or device to make a semi auto a full auto. Quite frankly, unless you are walking into a room full of people or a dense crowd of people to unload on, full auto doesn’t buy you diddly squat except the need to carry around a duffle bag full of magazines. Everything else classified as an NFA item is just to make weak minded people feel better, that’s it. It doesn’t matter how long or short a 12ga is, I have a 500 magnum revolver that’ll do more damage with the same capacity. It’s blatant and utter stupidity.

  12. Well, all of you who have read any of my comments know how I feel about defensive shotguns. Much less offensive shotguns. Is there such a thing? If I shoulder it, it’s a rifle. No matter how close. Seen close range shotgun and rifle wounds. Take a rifle every time. That said, ATF&E needs to make up our minds. What’s legal? Buy it today. Surrender it tomorrow? Please.

  13. A couple of things. First, a firearm can not have two separate NFA classifications at the same time. An SBS can not be a DD, and vice versa. If it doesn’t have a stock, it can’t be a short barreled shotgun. And the only smoother that has ever been officially classified as a Destructivd Device was the the Armsel Striker/Street sweeper which was called out specifically by name in 1994 for having “no sporting purpose” (which is absurd, but a completely unique ruling).

    Second, neither SBS nor DD would apply to the SBV, at most it would be classified as an AOW, just like the Serbu and other sub 26″ smootbore weapons on the market. This is quite simply ATF fuckery of the lowest order.

  14. It’s stupid that the receivers are sinful and need to be destroyed. Send them back to Fostech and let them files a new Form 1 and start the transfer to the owner on a Form 3/4, or send it back with a barrel long enough not to be a SBS. Instead, they have to do that same process with an identical receiver with a different serial number and destroy the old one. Sending it back with the barrel removed is silly. If they’ve said the existing receiver is a SBS and always will be, it’s still an SBS regardless of whether there’s a barrel attached or not.

  15. well I will never vote for any democrat that’s running or is thinking about running I voted for Trump knowing what he was and he has done more for this country than any other President that I can remember and I used to be a democrat until all this crap that they support abortion queers gun bans etc never again I will be voting for Trump next year that is if God lets me live to be 66 FYI I have not missed an election since I turn 18

  16. I’ve made up my mind and I did that many years ago. I WILL NOT vote for anyone with a ‘D’ by their name. PERIOD!

    As for Fostech: Well, I’ll stick with my traditional shotguns.

    As to bumpstocks: The entire thing is upsetting. But this isn’t about Trump. This is that slippery slope that the NRA was directly warned about well before Trump put his finger prints on it. Bumpstocks get a more flippant attitude as so many people consider them as a useless waste of money so it become a ‘throwaway’ that in reality became an established precedent. It was a bone that the NRA threw to the left.

    Believe what you will but there are many things out there that I see little value in. Democrats being one of them.

  17. This, like the Reformation and bump stocks ban are probably for the best. These are all things dumb shits would show up to the boogaloo with and get themselves killed.

  18. So, how do you handle it if you sold yours in a private transaction? Or had the ever ubiquitous “boating accident”?

    Asking for a friend…

  19. Not a coincidence that the AT_F has it’s sights on the Reformation as well as the Origin 12 “firearms”… these two items are also made from the largest manufactures of the most famous binary trigger systems (Echo from Fostech & Franklin Armory’s BFSIII), both of which has sold tens of thousands over the last 4 years! They are trying to bankrupt these companies plus send a message to others that are thinking about doing the same…. very underhanded dirty mob tactics, simply disgusting.

    They know making an out right rule change against arm braces & binary triggers would cause a literal sh@tt storm of law suits against them plus it would make them look foolish when only a few cowards comply. I hate to say it but very, very soon they will hit:
    #1) Poly 80 pistol kits outright, then

    #2) so called “80% kits” by designating that any piece of plastic or metal which has “any” type of cut-outs, attachment points, threading or even “close” dimensions of a traditionally known receiver to be restricted/ban (I know, laughable scary), then

    #3) binary triggers, then lastly if they get away with #3: they will enact:

    #4) anything purchased aftermarket that can increase the original firearm’s rate of fire!

    If Americans keep allowing things to go as they have, letting now AT_F & other gun grabbers to take one small piece at a time, with nothing more than a few harshly worded comments on the internet or a good stiff email “to show them”, then soon, now very soon with this sudden near instant new change in the agency to go after it “all”, the likes we have never seen even in the Obamanation years…. and all done on the whim of an agency who basically can do what ever it wants, well our 2nd amendment will be worthless. Look at the comments alone, their are still sell-out cowards who still have no problem with the bump stock ban, being too stupid to comprehend the bigger picture and what we see happening RIGHT NOW directly due to it! Others closet leftards are actually attacking others for purchasing these said items simply because they were “in the grey area and we should have know better”! There is no grey area, it’s called the law, something you should not be able to suddenly change over night and against other prior rulings! Only Congress should pass laws, not un-elected officials given the unconstitutional power to invent policies which circumvent our Rights.

  20. I’ve a sign over my reloading bench that says
    Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms should be a convenience store…Not a government agency!
    It’s all infringement and a revenue producer.
    I too, don’t vote for anyone with a “D” by their name. I despise a lot of the ones with “R” by their name too. The biggest danger/threat to our Republic was and still is the establishment of Political Parties. The Founders f*cked up in several areas and letting that monstrosity establish a stranglehold over the government is on the top 10 list of F*ck ups. Right up there with lifetime appointments and a serious lack of standards for SCOTUS Nominees.

  21. Quote: “Trumps Supreme Court nominations is what really counts.” Those and the other 170 and counting judges confirmed to District and Appeals Courts where 99.9% of all the decisions are made. Very, very few ever make it to SCOTUS.

  22. I really don’t see what basis the manufacturer had for ever claiming this was anything but a short barrel shotgun or an AOW. Hell, the guy in the video even calls it an SBR “for all intents and purposes.”

    The whole thing may meet shotgun length, if you generously count that “arm brace”, which just so happens to be so sturdy and sizable that anyone can use it as a stock. Too cute by half there, but hey, let’s allow it so long as you actually do use it as an arm brace. Use it as a stock and you go to prison.

    Next is the short barrel part of this thing. I don’t see it measuring out to the required 18 inches. So if it isn’t a rifle, shotgun, or handgun, then it’s an AOW. Where’s your tax stamp? Don’t have one? Prison! Putting that forward grip on a handgun makes it an AOW, by definition, too. Prison!

    All the three remedies the manufacturer offers do entail some expense incurred by them, but the sum of all the transactions still results in the manufacturer having made a sale. They may pick up some shipping expense and put a little more labor and materials into making these compliant, but the final tally still has them making sales.

    The lesson learned from this is don’t try to tiptoe right up to the edge of the law; you’re apt to go galloping past that edge like these guys did. Then you’ll be left holding the bag, no matter what some company goober says in a YouTube video. Work to change the law through the legislative or judicial process, instead.

  23. Mark my words.
    All work arounds of the NFA will be stopped.
    Maybe under Trump.
    Certainly under the next dem President.
    Binary triggers and “braces” will be banned.
    Likely AR and AK “ pistols” as well.

    The Republicans take gun owners for granted. And they are right. Where will we go?
    Libertarian? Green? That’s just throwing your vote away.
    Under Republicans they ban bumpstocks and now this shotgun.
    DJT is appointing conservative judges. It seems the judiciary is our best hope.
    Both parties are anti gun.

    • If everyone who said voting is third party is throwing your vote away actually voted third party, the third party would win. It’s happened before.

    • To me It’s about the use of the fear and mistrust “card” being played by those who would disarm the population of this great Republic to attain power, perhaps tyranny, over those they see as unfit to be trusted. The notion of disarmament of a lawful populace has always been the first step necessary for a dictator or dictatorial group to accomplish throughout history. Just look at the fear of each other that is being fanned by the policies of the left all because their real end game is to promote ilk toward this administration in hope of moving toward a disarmament of a free society with a radical anti gun administration. The first and second amendment are one and two in the Bill Of Rights for good reason. Live free or die…..

  24. They made it hard to find the Congressional Independent Treasury Act where the 66 Congress gave away the US Treasury in 1920 to the Federal Reserve Bank. It’s at 41 Statute at Large Chapter 214 page 654. As you can see no Independent Treasury Act listed under Ch 214 Statutes at Large: . It’s hidden in the Congressional Act before it Scroll to page 654 starts near the bottom of the page
    the IRS is also a branch of the US TREASURY.
    The A.T.F. has been a branch of the US Treasury since its beginning July 1 1972. The ATF was just transferred to the US Department of Justice .
    Which is one and the same and also private

  25. Well bad news for the people sending there SBV back, got news from a friend that Fostech is promising something in return but they will never produce. So in that note wonder how your gonna feel after spending 3k on a broken gun that is more likely to jam and not function properly that sending it in your left with nothing but false promises of them sending something back in return. You dont believe me go look at there new shop or try to get ahold of someone on the phone.

    • I have communicated with Fostech and they are not saying they will not replace the firearm. What they are saying is that they could not work with the ATF to reach a logical compromise to make the firearms compliant. That should tell you a lot about my earlier comment being on point. They are estimating a ten month turn around to return another “compliant” firearm to those caught up in this situation. And those of you who own the other variants out there better not think they won’t be coming for you next if things change in Washington for the worse. Live free or die…….

    • So now I have my new “tax stamp” version of the same shotgun with a shoulder mounted butt stock (adjustable). I didn’t think you knew what you were saying was pure negative hearsay then, but now everyone knows it was. Please refrain from this type of posting, we have enough people who don’t have a clue alredy.

  26. I had one in my hands, got the notice and sent it back. So now let’s let a little reason come into this discussion: What is the logic that compels a company to destroy a firearm that they are going to have to re-manufacture entirely then send it back out to the dealer to do the registration the for compliance ? The serial number of the original firearm can simply be amended along with the folder elimination or modification to make everyone happy. But the intent, IMO, is to do financial damage to the company by those who seek to gut the Second Amendment of our Constitution. There is no reasonable logic with this dictat and those of you who defend it are falling into a scary place. Live free or Die………


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