high capacity magazines
(Dan Z. for TTAG)
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Last week, a three-judge panel of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled California’s ban on “high capacity” magazines violates the Second Amendment. The 2 to 1 decision in Duncan v. Becerra was cause for much celebration here and throughout the gun community.

However, as reader, contributor and attorney LKB pointed out, the decision didn’t lift the injunction in place that blocks the sale of standard capacity magazines until the case is finally decided . . .

The stay against enforcement of the injunction continues until the mandate (the official instructions from the court) issues. The mandate won’t issue until there has been a ruling on the all-but-certain motion for en banc rehearing. And as the Hawaii open carry case demonstrates, CTA9 is perfectly willing to sit on such requests for, quite literally, years.

Nevertheless, many retailers almost immediately began taking orders again and shipping what California calls large capacity magazines (LCMs) into the Golden State.

As a result, the National Shooting Sports Foundation issued the following caution this morning regarding those sales:

We have been asked by California retailers, distributors and ammunition magazine manufacturers across the industry whether Friday’s landmark decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit in Duncan v. Becerra means they can now sell to California consumers, ship to California retailers or manufacture in the state for commercial sale in the state ammunition magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition (so-called “Large Capacity Magazines” or LCM). The short answer is “NO.”

While the holding in Duncan is a tremendous victory for the Second Amendment, members of the industry should continue to refrain from selling or shipping into California LCMs until after the appeal proceeding is concluded or the stay is modified or lifted. This is because the U.S. District Court’s Order Staying In Part Judgment Pending Appeal, dated April 4, 2019, remains in effect “pending final resolution of the appeal from the Judgment.” The appellate proceedings have not concluded or been finally resolved, so the stay remains in place.

Stay tuned. NSSF will update you on developments, including when the appeal is over and you can sell standard-sized magazines in California.

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  1. No surprise there. Lots retailers cancelling orders. To those who got their mags, congrats on getting a little bit more Freedom.

    • Just load up 1500 mags in the back of a truck. Drive to california – distribute freely.

      Haven’t you guys heard? As seen in portland, seattle, and elsewhere, following the law is voluntary.

  2. Pretty certain nobody’s going to actually ship until the Ninth issues its formal Order, which would trigger the removal of Benitez’ stay on his injuction, but in the meantime:

    * Brownell’s took orders on Friday and will charge your CC & ship if/when the stay is removed.

    * PSA took my order and already charged my CC, so legally they’ve “sold” me the magazines, even though shipment will be held until the stay is removed.

    I’m refreshing the case page on an hourly basis to see what happens today, whether by the Ninth or by CA A.G. Becerra.


    • Some places ARE shipping. Buddy of mine in LA already has some CZ mags in transit. Everything else from the same company is in limbo, strangely

    • Patiently waiting. It’s like an optics planet order, wait a month for it to ship…assuming it does.
      I was already GTG from the last freedom week where i bought glock mags and a lot of extra strength Stanag springs for my Hexmag 10/30s to convert to SCM.

    • You’ve hit a topic that sparked my curiosity, how would you go about doing that? Cosmoline, vacuum sealer, pvc tubing? How do you combat moisture?

      • Oil them and double-triple heavy ziplock with a desiccant inside in a sealed PVC tube?

        • Just yesterday, I was replacing/upgrading the buffer tube springs on my ARs, and one of them (that had been stored outside my safe for several weeks while I had taken it shooting a couple of times) showed considerable rusting of the likes I had never seen before. Our SoCal semi-desert atmosphere is typically arid and dry, but has been a bit humid recently, and the moisture was able to seep through the gun case and into the innards of the AR remarkably easily. So I had to give it a(nother) thorough lubing and oiling, and back into the safe it had to go.

          Speaking of which, I also need to replace the desiccant inside the safe every three months, which is more often than I ever thought necessary when I first got the safe. Interestingly enough, no gun placed inside my house has ever experienced rusting at any time within my lifetime, but put those same guns into what you think is “safe” storage in the garage or storage, and the Rust Demons attack them like nobody’s business. And this is in SoCal…I can only imagine what people living in the South must deal with.

        • *Never* store guns in cases; as you found, the padding keeps moisture pressed up against the metal.

        • Haz. I’ve lived in the south. I never store, even for a short period, in the gun cases. I still follow that rule here in norcal.

          Also places like attics, garages and basements that are not climate controlled are poor places to store your firearms.

          Extra care is needed in places that are higher in humidity. In my callow youth I left a revolver in a leather holster in the trunk of my car. I’ll never make that mistake again.

        • I’ve had rifles in gun cases, both plastic and cloth, and handguns in leather holsters for several years without any rust at all. The Central Valley is DRY! Silicon infused gun socks will cure any problems, or a rod and reel silicone wipe works for a very long time.

        • Agreed, and all sound advice (above) that I’ve typically followed for many years. But I suppose my point was my surprise at the fact that any rusting happened at all, which is rare for my locale climate.

          Then again (cough cough, let the jokes commence), the two ARs in question are PSA builds. None of any of my other guns in all my entire collection have ever experienced rust. So I’ve learned that PSA applies a finish on their componentry that is commensurate to their low pricing. Functionally, the guns run great, but either (1) I’ll need to be more regularly diligent to their cleaning and oiling or (@) I’ll need to consider a refinish with a higher quality option. Might be the right time to go with that “Krylon Kamo” in grayscale urban I’ve been thinking of…

        • I live in a swamp in a hollow log. Got a one eyed cat and a three legged dog. My PSA AR that’s kept in a case and not in a safe has not a spec of rust after about three years. White lithium in the buffer to kill the “sprong” and LSA on the bolt and in the chamber.

          This is for the other replies to Geoff that have rusting issues in a dry climate. Couldn’t reply any lower down than this.

      • Ive seen videos of people making a weapons cache from pvc pipe but it gets expensive when you figure in the pipe and end caps. IMO a 55 gallon drum would be a better option. You can seal them airtight and they can hold a lot more guns, mags, ammo and dead bodies than a pipe.

      • Load them, and place them beside the firearm you bought them for. When was the last time your home was searched for firearms?

        • Never but when politics start infringing on rights, a decentralized storage system isn’t a bad idea.

      • Medium-high end vacuum sealers usually have a “dry” feature that removes moisture from the bag as it’s zipped down. The feature works very well on pastas, rice and such. However, the bags are plastic and oils tend not to play well with any plastics over time. Polyethylene will last quite a while on exposure to oil, especially HDPE. Nylon is also fairly resistant to things like gun lube.

        Honestly though, I’d use a high quality bag like one made by FoodSaver, which are five layers of PE and Nylon and I’d spray the guns down with powdered teflon (Hoppe’s Dri-Lube for example) and then let that dry for a minute or so before sealing the items. Dri-Lube and similar products are powdered teflon lubricant dissolved in a light hydrocarbon (I don’t recall which one right off the top of my head). The solution will drive off all the water on the surface and then evaporate leaving a layer of teflon to prevent more moisture from getting to the metal surface. If that hydrocarbon is gone there’s not much left to “attack” the PE.

        Dri-Lube will keep a custom spring-steel bladed knife completely rust free for 5+ years with one good application provided you don’t sheathe and unsheathe the knife too much.

        So, spray on a liberal amount of such a product, throw that in a bag, zip down on “dry” mode. Wait a couple days to make sure the bag’s integrity is good and then store as you wish. At that point the entire thing should be waterproof even at depth. If you want to you can add a small desiccant to the bag before sealing for added protection in very long term storage.

        When you want to use them, remove them from the bag and use a rag to wipe off the excess teflon and the mags are good to go immediately after that.

    • Geoff. I got mags for my g19 during freedom week. This is how I’ve stored them. One is loaded with h-p’s and in the butt of the g19. The others are loaded and stored next to the g19 in the safe.

      If the cops are ripping into my safe they and I have had a truly bad day.

    • I direct answer to your question, they are illegal to PURCHASE but not currently illegal to POSSESS. So just put them in with all of the rest of your mags. Prosecutions for possession of 10+ mags has been stayed pending appeal. So if you have them, they are currently legal. If the decision is reversed, well then you may have an issue.

      • Mark is correct. There have been too many erroneous statements circulated here and elsewhere regarding possession. Per Benitez’ injunction on CA P.C. 32310, parts (a) and (b) regarding importing, purchasing, selling, or manufacturing have been stayed pending the outcome of the case and are still in effect. Parts (c) and (d) regarding mere possession have been enjoined and nullified. Possession is not currently grounds for legal search, seizure, arrest, or charges.

  3. So in other words the Hoopla is “Much Ado About Nothing”. As Mr. Spock would say: ” A difference that makes no difference is no difference”.

    • Well, that was actually William James who died in 1912. But the observation is still valid.
      A more concise way of voicing the idea would be ‘it is a difference without a distinction‘.

  4. How about F**K the state.

    The constitution is the supreme law of the land no matter what a bunch of bought and paid for panty wringers have to say. “All laws repugnant to the constitution are void” Marbury v Madison

    Sheesh………ca is the land of PU$$IES!

    • John

      Exactly and I might add ,those rights preexisted them being committed to the document as they were derived by way of nature/God not man.

      • Absolutely, the document doesnt’t grant the right it only aids in protecting the right. They try to get us tied up in arguing the details, and interpretation, it is all phooey. Best interpretation of the intent is the Federalist papers.

    • I sure remeber the gays getting married after every minor podunk court ruling in their favor.
      Funny how things only favor the leftist agenda.

    • My wife is in the Portland/Salem area for the next week or so, helping out her folks who are in bad health…I couldn’t convince her to take her gun along. Probably it’s just as well, because she has no confidence in her ability to use it (lack of practice and mental fortitude), which would make it only a liability.

      So there she is, a middle-aged woman with bad knees, ferrying a daughter in a wheelchair and her infirm octogenarian grandparents in and out of Mayor Ted Wheeler’s communist paradise in a 15 year old car, and all I can do is hope she stays lucky enough not to run afoul of an antifa blockade.

      I can’t wait to see these people get shot down like the rabid vermin they are.

    • How far up their ass does a person have to have their head jammed that in this day and time they are still traveling unarmed?

      • Well, to be fair, we all know certain persons who don’t possess the fortitude, speed, or mental acuity to effective use a gun in defense against an attacker, and might be overpowered. In which case the attacker would then have a new gun.

        I know a couple of gun owners like that, and I would *not* want to have them to anywhere near my six in an event.

        • You can do everything right and still lose the fight. But if you leave your best tool for winning the fight at home or don’t even own one, then losing is pretty much in the cards short of a miracle.

      • jwm,

        First of all, I am not defending nor rationalizing people that go about unarmed in this day and age. I am merely providing a perspective — an insight — as to why people are unarmed even in this day and age.

        I am relatively new to everyday carry. I was well into middle age when I purchased my first handgun just 10 years ago and acquired my concealed carry license a few months later. What took me so long? Being armed every day simply wasn’t in the “life script” that I had learned and lived my entire life. It was every bit as foreign an idea as buying snow shoes in Central America. Then one day my cousin (in-law) stopped by to visit. He knew that I was an avid hunter and tested the waters to see how much interest I had in general for firearms. Upon seeing my significant interest, he showed me a handgun that he just purchased. I really liked examining it. Seeing my enthusiasm, he casually mentioned that he purchased it for concealed carry since he had his concealed carry license. That was the very first time in my life that anyone had ever presented the idea to me, first hand no less. I was curious about the requirements to obtain a concealed carry license as well as the utility of it. And he shared some good information with me.

        As the following days passed, I thought more and more about it and realized how much sense it made. A few weeks later I committed myself to purchase a handgun, acquire my concealed carry license, and carry every day. And the rest, as they say, is history.

        My final perspective to anyone who has not yet considered tooling up: I am utterly amazed at how calming and comforting it is to carry every day, knowing that I am always instantly ready should bad actors (or nasty animals) come calling. Being in a position of strength is ALWAYS a good thing.

    • Why on God’s green Earth would anyone drive through the riots in Portland, Oregon? At some point you bear some of the responsibility for bad things happening when you do something really foolish.

      I liken this to an attractive young woman wearing a skimpy bikini, obviously unarmed, and setting out for a long recreational walk alone in some urban Hellscape at 11:00 p.m. — that would be extremely foolish and she bears some responsibility for the inevitable rape. While the rapist bears 1000% criminal responsibility, the woman bears responsibility for knowingly and willingly putting herself in a situation where a horrific outcome is all but guaranteed.

      Yes, yes, yes: in a perfect world men are not supposed to rape women and a woman should be able to walk in a skimpy bikini through an urban Hellscape without anyone raping her. And the sad reality is that we do not live a perfect world. Rather, we live in a fallen, imperfect world. Plan accordingly. Fail to plan accordingly and you could very well end up like this unfortunate man laying unconscious on the road.

      • I can’t speak for the man in the video, of course. But, I have found myself in some rather tense situations, similar to the Portland riots. Don’t judge him too harshly, until you know all the facts. Maybe he is a total idiot – maybe he isn’t.

        • Me too in a Southside of Chicago ghetto-circa 1992. Selling insurance(to white folks)and surrounded by young black kids screaming at me in my car as I was trying to go. I gunned the engine as I was ready to do my damnest to leave. Luckily the sea parted. No guns(or anything) then just a big dude behind the wheel!

        • Paul,

          I hear what you are saying. I was driving in an urban Hellscape many years ago when two cars in front of me stopped to conduct a significant drug deal in the middle of the street. Rather than roll the dice and keep on driving up to the two cars engaged in a drug deal, I slammed on the brakes, performed an illegal U-turn, and got out of there immediately in case the drug deal went bad. I am thinking that people could do the same 99% of the time.

          So, the man and woman had no sense driving into downtown Portland, Oregon in the first place. And then, finding themselves approaching a riot “demonstration”, they kept driving into it anyway. Unless the driver was somehow boxed-in for a long time — long enough for the “demonstration” to approach him and surround him — I am having a very difficult time imagining any way that the driver would not be significantly culpable for his own safety.

        • former water walker,

          Your situation was different according to your description. You did not knowingly drive into an area that has had riots for the last 100 straight days. And when an aggressive mob unexpectedly surrounded your car, you did not give them an opportunity to pull you out and beat you.

          In this poor guy’s case, he knowingly (unless he has been living under a rock) drove into an area that has had riots for the last 100 days, which was incredibly foolish in my opinion. If, somehow, he really had no idea that anything was amiss in Portland, then I feel really sorry for that guy.

      • I heard a follow-up report on the radio stating that the driver was in the area for the purpose of helping someone else, and was in the process of searching for a clear exit when he found himself trapped.

        • Okay, someone please explain to me what in my comment was bad enough to hold it for “approval”?

  5. The courts are not the problem The problem is the people who never cease to vote democRat. Ignorance is bliss.

    • More specifically, the (apparently vast) majority of California voters who keep electing and re-electing the same types of arrogant, self-serving, sanctimonious, ‘progressive’ Democratic ‘representatives’ (e.g., Gavin Newsom) to office election cycle after election cycle. Moderate (let alone ‘conservative’) Democratic (much less Republican) candidates need not apply in the ‘Golden State.’ SMH

  6. What the ruling does mean, however, is still far reaching beyond the incidental magazine issue. The ruling sharply undercuts a fundamental component of gun-control ideology, i.e. that “commonsense firearms restrictions like magazine limits, don’t compromise the 2nd Amendment. Although talking specifically about magazine limitations, the court has importantly recognized that any law or government policy that interferes with the rights of an armed citizenry to defend itself against tyranny is effectively in violation of the intent of the 2nd Amendment.

    Modern-day limitations on magazine limitations can be compared directly to what would have happened in revolutionary America if government had imposed “commonsense” power and ball restrictions on the Concord bridge militia. Despite the technological differences, the intent is the same. The 2nd Amendment is part of a clear and unambiguous revolutionary document. If it means what it says it means, this perforce undercuts the presumed legitimacy of gun-control ideology. And that is a pretty doggone big deal.

  7. So the 9th Circuit rules 2/1 in a 3 judge panel that the CA magazine ban is unconstitutional – the effect ===> absolutely nothing. The tyranny remains, and likely will remain indefinitely as the stay will remain in effect until the USSC denies cert perhaps 5-8 years from now. How exactly is this materially different from a loss? What exactly motivates article writers to say these things:

    While the holding in Duncan is a tremendous victory for the Second Amendment…

    “Tremendous victory”, Really?

      • I agree. Every time the left gets some Dem appointed hack of a judge to issue an opinion on something conservative it goes in to effect right away. Every time conservatives win in court we have to wait until all appeals are exhausted. WTF

    • The effect is not “nothing”. This (well grounded and written) opinion was published just one business day ago, and it doesn’t remove Judge Benitez’ stay he placed on the injunction last April. Either (1) the Ninth must follow up its opinion with a formal order, or (2) Benitez must interpret the opinion as a fulfillment of his stay’s requirement that the appeal to the Ninth has been satisfied, and he’ll see that it’s safe to remove it and allow sales again.

      This is all circling the anticipation that Becerra will attempt to freeze this issue again by filing yet another appeal (the fourth appeal, and the third to the Ninth itself) by requesting an en banc.

      Be patient. Let’s see what happens this week. Courts require paperwork and formal motions, and don’t move with lightning speed.

      • I’d be willing to bet Becerra had the detail in the office over the weekend to workup the en banc. Frankly, surprised there isn’t a story already posted about the filing, or that they didn’t have one ready to go just in case…

        Although, just as likely they’re not concerned with being Johnny on the spot since the panel didn’t actually lift the stay embargo.

      • If the effect is not nothing, then point to it. All I see so far are empty words. As I said previously: The tyranny remains.

        There is so far as I can observe, not a single thing materially different for any CA resident. Giving, receiving, selling, importing, etc., etc., etc. … still prohibited, and likely to remain so indefinitely.

        The only thing that has changed are the FEELZ.

  8. Since there seems to be no ban on possession yet a road trip might be in order. Except gun stores are likely cleaned right out and cops are looking for CA tags in border states at gun shops.

    How about a post office box across the state line and a PayPal account with the same?

    • “Since there seems to be no ban on possession yet a road trip might be in order.”

      From yesterday’s announcement, it appears simple possession is indeed, illegal. Possessor beware, a criminal charge may result…

    • But lets say I am in Arizona.
      I buy a non controlled item at a store there. Local PD doesn’t give a rats ass about how many standard magazines I just bought. It isn’t in their jurisdiction.

  9. There are a bit over two dozen judges in the 9th circuit. There is also nothing really stopping them from using a larger panel to re evaluate the finding of the three judge review. It has happened before. Of course the Heller decision should have made the 30 round magazines legal. They were at that time, and probably still are, in common usage.

    Of course my 30 magazines and Modern Sporting Rifles went down when my boat sank at the reservoir.

  10. From this article:

    And as the Hawaii open carry case demonstrates, CTA9 is perfectly willing to sit on such requests for, quite literally, years.

    The lawsuit is about government infringing a constitutionally enumerated right — and the courts think it is okay to sit on the case for years? This is beyond obscene: it is downright evil.

  11. I say send them.. Mail millions to California. Why???
    Because if California wants to take on a bunch of big retailers who will join together with a legal dream team it won’t end well for California.
    Yeah I know it is a small technicality, because they didn’t lift the ban yet.
    At this point the law is moot.
    Unless I have a receipt as to when and where I bought it, how will they prove jack?
    Say I go to Nevada or Arizona and buy them today, how can they prove it?
    The law has been crushed, and even the city based bans are crushed.
    So buy away my good friends! Buy away!!!

  12. Just more of the Dog and Pony Show our Judiciary has descended too. Hate to say it, but the Framers screwed the pooch with Article III. Their lack of foresight allowed Judicial Appointments to become Political Plums.

  13. Hardly a cause for “celebration”, but rather a hollow victory for California gun owners, given that the stay against the enforcement of the injunction remains in place, and the 9th “Circus” will probably take at LEAST 2 years to respond to a request for an en banc rehearing. Once they finally do, the odds of getting a gun-friendly majority on the en banc panel are REMOTE (at best).

    In the meantime, California’s arrogant, self-serving, and sanctimonious ‘progressive’ legislators will have ample time to come up with dozens of new, ‘creative’ (and evermore restrictive) gun ‘safety’ measures to ‘compensate’ for any ‘upsets’ they might experience as a result of a ‘gun-friendly’ en banc panel. Bottom line: Until voters decide that they’ve finally had enough (yeah, right…) of the ultra-left, Democratic hyper-majority taxing and spending the ‘Golden State’ into oblivion, things will only progressively get worse for California gun owners.

    • If it takes 2 years to move up the line that will give Trump more time to appoint conservative judges.

      • The base rate all cause mortality for the United States is 2,813,503.


        If those deaths are distributed proportionally according to population and if CA has 40,000,000 residents and the united states 330,000,000 then over the course of those 2 years approximately 682,000 people will have been permanently denied their supposedly unalienable rights, not to mention all the rest of us.

        • Trust me. I know about injustice existing. I live in the heart of the bay area. Where civil rights go to die.

          What do you suggest as an alternative?

        • You never needed permission to live life. You don’t need it now. Life has many risks: cancer, auto accidents, lightning strikes, shark attacks, oppressive government. Make an assessment and then go live your life.



      • Problem is, there are no vacancies left on the 9th Circuit, not to mention that Trump’s chances of being re-elected are dubious at best. Any chance that gun owners have of even partially restoring the RKBA in California is almost entirely dependent on removing as many ‘progressive’ Democrats from office as possible and replacing them with more gun-friendly representatives (regardless of party affiliation). Given California’s demographics, that would be (to put it mildly) a herculean task.

  14. Isn’t it odd, how a moment of legislative stupidity can destroy the rights of law abiding citizenry, but the necessitated reconstruction, if it takes place, can drag on and on and on.

  15. Just another of the major flaws in our flawed system. If a law is ruled to be in Violation of the Constitution, it should immediately become invalid. Why would something ruled in violation still be law? Makes about as much sense as Shotgun Joe Biden.

    • A.K.A “Dementia Joe Biden, the Temperamental King of Gaffes” who now (unsurprisingly) has ‘teamed up’ with the arrogant, ultra-left, former CA Attorney General (and well-respected gun rights ‘champion’) Kamala Harris, so they can begin the insidious and incremental process of implementing California-style gun ‘safety’ statutes at the federal level, followed by New Zealand or Australian style gun ‘buyback/confiscation’ programs.

      • Well, (and I don’t say this lightly) at least it would alleviate the stress of waiting. I think a succession from the left and right is long overdue. Funny thing is, for the dems, it’s still about slavery. Always has been. This time it’s just not race related.

  16. pretty sure if I lived in such a shithole state the last thing I would give a fuck about is asking permission to how much ammo I can carry. Same goes for what grip/STOCK I can use.

    Fuck you, ATF and all you commie states.

    • I feel very much the same. In the “Golden State,” the problem isn’t the ATF so much as California DOJ and arrogant, condescending, hypocritical ‘progressive’ legislators in Sacramento who continue to regurgitate evermore specious gun ‘safety’ measures every year, while they enjoy 24/7 security armed with the very types of firearms and magazines they INSIST have NO place in ‘civilized society.’

  17. First, they the courts say you can’t own large capacity magazines…
    Then some say you can…back and forth,back and forth……
    It doesn’t matter how many rounds you have in a magazine….
    What matters is your intent….

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