by Lee Williams
Russell Fincher is a high school history teacher, a Baptist pastor and a part-time gun dealer. He also coaches Little League in his hometown of Tuskahoma, Oklahoma, which has a population of around 151 souls.
Fincher, 52, has had a federal firearm license for three years. He has no brick-and-mortar gun shop. He’s what used to be called a “kitchen table FFL.” He sells most of his firearms at gun shows, including Wanenmacher’s Arms Show in Tulsa.
“Living in Southeast Oklahoma, if you don’t have a gun under $400, people ain’t buying it,” he said Thursday. “Rarely do people come to my house to buy a gun.”
In April, Fincher received a call from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco Firearms and Explosives. They wanted to do an inspection at his home. “I told them they were welcome anytime,” Fincher said.
Two ATF inspectors arrived a few days later. They spent three hours in his home. They took pictures of his 4473s with their cell phones, which Fincher has since learned is an illegal although common practice.
“Honestly, they were way nicer than I expected,” he said. “They said I had some guns that had traces on them, which concerned them. It concerned me too.”
The inspectors returned two weeks later. They had some “concerns” involving Fincher’s penmanship, which they couldn’t read on a couple forms. They also found he had juxtaposed the model number of a firearm with the weapon’s serial number, which Fincher was attempting to rectify.
On June 16, Fincher and his son were packing for a gun show in Tulsa when the phone rang. It was the ATF. They said they wanted to talk to him before he left for the gun show.
“We can come out to your house,” he recalls the agent saying. “I told them sure; I’d be home.”
Seven vehicles roared up to his home and disgorged a dozen ATF agents wearing tactical gear, armed with AR-15s.
“It was like the Trump raid. They called me out onto my deck and handcuffed me. My son was there and saw the whole thing. He’s 13 years old,” Fincher said. “They held me on the porch for about an hour. I was surrounded by agents. One by one, they yelled at me about what I was doing. In my mind I decided if they were going to beat me up over every little thing, I’m done. As soon as I said, ‘If you want my FFL, you can have it,’ one of the agents pulled out a piece of paper and said, ‘Well then sign here.’ He had made three copies in case I screwed one up. It was exactly what they wanted. I was shocked.”
As soon as Fincher relinquished his federal firearm license, the ATF began loading up his guns, including a Colt Commander, five GLOCKs and a mint AK – a Polytech pre-ban milled under-folder, which is worth thousands of dollars.
“They took more than 50 of my personal guns,” Fincher said. “I asked them why, and they said they were ‘evidence.’ I’d estimate they took $50,000 to $60,000 worth of guns.”
Threats
After ATF’s SWAT team cleared Fincher’s home, they called the agent in charge of the raid – Special Agent Theodore Mongell – and told him it was “safe to come up.”
“You’re done. We have to shut you down,” Fincher recalls Mongell saying. “You tell all your FFL buddies we are coming for them. We are shutting the gun shows down.”
“One agent told me they hate home FFLs,” Fincher said. “He said if I wanted to sell a Browning shotgun to someone at a gun show with no paperwork, that’s no problem, but when I sell a GLOCK or an AR lower that’s a ‘gangbanger.’ I asked him where it said that in the regs. He said no gangbanger would be shooting people with a $2,000 Benelli. To me, that was one of the dumbest statements he could have made.”
Several agents accused Fincher of making too much money through his gun show sales. He told them at the last show he attended he only sold $75 worth of ammunition, but spent $1,200 on hotels, tables, gas and food.
“They said I was basically using my FFL to sell guns personally,” Fincher said. “They said I was going around the system, putting guns on the street that should not be.”
Fincher was told to load the firearms ATF didn’t want into the back of his pickup, which he later took to another FFL. Toward the end of the ordeal, Fincher asked Mongell about his guns they had seized.
“He told me, ‘If you’re willing to forfeit them, we can make a lot of this go away,’” Fincher said. “This sounds to me like a shakedown. They seized my guns as punitive damage. They knew how to get me, by taking all my guns. There was no rhyme nor reason to what they took. Honestly, they took the most expensive and rarest ones.”
ATF Response
The Second Amendment Foundation’s Investigative Journalism Project contacted ATF Special Agent Theodore Mongell on his cellphone Thursday afternoon and asked him why he raided Fincher’s home and seized his guns.
“I can’t answer any questions,” he said. “I’m not supposed to do that, per my agency. Actually, I’m not supposed to talk to anyone until I get approval from my higher ups. I have to verify who you are, take down your info and go through my agency.”
Despite promises to do so, Mongell never called back.
Takeaways
There doesn’t appear to be any justification for a SWAT team raid or such a massive show of force in a case like this. After all, Fincher had invited the ATF into his home.
After cuffing and berating him for more than an hour, the agents never even told Fincher if or when he would be charged with a crime. He fears he would lose his teaching job if he’s charged with a felony.
“They have my life in the palm of their hands, and they have very little accountability,” he said. “I’m just trying to make a living and it takes three jobs just to make ends meet. Dealing as little as I have with the ATF, when you ask them a specific question, they’ll tell you it’s a grey area. Well, a grey area can send you to jail. I’m not Hunter Biden. I’m not going to get my weapon charges dropped.”
The Second Amendment Foundation’s Investigative Journalism Project wouldn’t be possible without you. Click here to make a tax deductible donation to support pro-gun stories like this.
This story is part of the Second Amendment Foundation’s Investigative Journalism Project and is published here with their permission.
Don’t say a word. Don’t sign anything.
And never, ever agree to meet with any LE department/agency on their turf, in their offices without bringing your attorney and requiring that you’ll be making an audio/video recording of all conversations.
I read of a different guy who was called by ATF to come in for questioning to “clear something up”. The guy said sure, but he’ll bring his atty and will be recording the entire event. The ATF said they don’t allow any recording within their facilities, so the guy said, “no problem…my attorney will instead coordinate with you to set up a place of our own choosing- where we will be recording you – or you can choose to apply repeated pressure to a mound of granulated mineral.”
If you have an FFL the BATF can come and inspect at your place of business if that happens to be your home well that sucks. One of the reasons I don’t have an FFL. I’ve been in a number of gun shops while they are having an inspection. The best one they told the agents the only place they had for them to review forms was at a table right by the front doors. They literally set up a folding table there to make them as uncomfortable as possible.
The State of Oklahoma (and other states too) needs to formally address these abuses of power and the unlawful harassment of their residents by Federal agents.
One step they could take would involve prohibiting any cooperation between any Oklahoma state, county, or local law enforcement agency and the ATF.
They might also consider arresting Federal agents who overstep their legal authority. Our State governments are sovereign within their own spheres.
The doctrine of the lesser magistrate has been woefully neglected.
once again…it’s open season on FFL’s….be forewarned
Jack booted thugs back to making up/doing “regulation by intimidation” (as in the Klinton days).
Anyone with an FFL should have a lawyer on speed dial. This guy should have STFU and called a lawyer at the first whiff of the ATF sniffing around. Ignorance of your rights is not bliss.
For God’s sake, STFU and call a lawyer. Don’t speak to the ATF without a lawyer present.
Thats the best advice anyone can give, but it has been my experience that people who are honest and follow the law feel they resolve the issue themselves. By the time the realize there is a problem it to late.
Tom Segura’s First 48 routine;
“Everybody’s like ‘I’m gonna talk to the cops and straighten this out.’ Your gonna do 25 to life, buddy Have fun with that.”
FFL Baptist teachers from rural Oklahoma are generally very good honest decent reasonable people.
Unfortunately they tend to wrongly assume that other people (like Federal agents) are the same. While some Federal agents might be, a ton of them aren’t. In this case, the ATF agents appear to be little more than political mafiosos. The ATF needs to be abolished.
I be know’d Cricket 27 year!
They will always find the crime before they let you know. The ATF is never there to help anybody unless it is to take them to jail for some bull crap “crime”.
I work with LEOs from several agencies. Every one of them has told me “don’t ever answer questions beyond the few basic facts of your DGU unless you have your attorney present. Once you’ve supplied those basic facts, shut up and remain shut.”
It’s as if they are challenging “we the people” and daring “we the people” to do anything.
This is awful and should scare the hell out of POTG.
If ATF will do this to a FFL, then a little imagination will tell what they would do to POTG.
Goes right along with History Confirming Gun Control is Rooted in Racism and Genocide.
And it is what happens when the pasty mouth rhetoric of self serving politically inept gun talkers end up catering to Gun Control democRats…In other words the problem is not limited just to the atf.
Hopefully the FFL gets the justice
he deserves via a Civil Rights Suit. At this point all I can say to him is…I did not vote for it.
So we can be racist against white people now…………good luck selling that one.
Uhh, WAKE UP!! This is already a common thing. Open yer Baby Blues for a while.
Nothing behind those baby blues. Just an empty Void.
Does make for identifying hollow men easy though darkie and a chord does seem to be struck with you.
@ Void, Not a chord, just the responsibility to point out empty headed snowflakes children like you.
And yet you ring just as hollow with your empty words, well at least I have company.
hahahahaha oh man oh manishevitz, if he had only understood the history of racism links to gun control this never would have happened.
Forget it Jake . . . it’s Debbietown.
Thanks for bringing up racism again. You should do something with your moustache.
Will you kindly stop fighting with the people who are actually on your side? Sheesh; have we learned NOTHING from a history filled with millions of dead from tyrannical governments running unchecked by a napping populace?
The “gangbanger” comment by one ATF agent is a very candid comment. They don’t have enough prison cells for all of the usual demographic suspects, so they are trying to cut down on the supply of arms. Building the necessary prisons would severely constrain the funding of other government services. Politicians in Michigan and New York have admitted as much. To them, putting the perps in prison is more of a logistical nightmare than cracking down on guns.
The problem is, it’s a game of whack-a-mole. It just won’t work, and the innocent and law-abiding suffer.
johnny boy the only difference between you and a gangbanger is what’s between your ears.
When I see anyone singling people out over race, living conditions, etc. and trying to make those people “the problem” I see the same level of crap that the kkk and nazi party spewed…And how did that turn out?
In a sense you are skating around on the coattails of a desperate finger pointing atf wrongdoer who pulled the word gangbanger out of his behind to save his behind…By all accounts the kkk and nazis were white and to catch up with their atrocities “gangbangers” have a heck of a long way to go…Don’t you think or did History for you like so many on this forum begin the day you were potty trained?
All criminals have one problem in common, a Content of Character problem.
Your lack of self awareness is disturbing.
i’ll bet she’s aware of what she stuffs between her ears.
“i’ll bet she’s aware of what she stuffs between her ears.”
It’s a lack of something being repeatedly stuffed somewhere that’s the real problem…
*snicker* 😉
Coming from an empty Void. Not much of a put down.
oooh darkie I did touch a nerve with you keep on ranting into the void
Nobody cares about your boyfriend Debbie. This is all in your head.
“All criminals have one problem in common, a Content of Character problem.”
I agree.
But man, you too are fighting with people who are at least trying to be on your side. We’re losing the battle because we’re so busy giving each other figurative bloody noses and black eyes that we just can’t agree to train our sights on the true enemy!
Something that seems to be amazingly prevalent in a very large number of ATF agents. Seems some of them look at EVERYBODY who owns guns as the enemy.
Personally, and someone else noted this as well, he should have never agreed to have the ATF at his home without his attorney present. Making nice with those guys usually works as well as trying to kiss a black widow spider.
Their “issue” is not how many guns there are “out there”. Nope. Their problem is IN WHOSW HANDS those guns are.
Their hands? OK Fine.
Criminals’ hands? OK Fine
Undocumented foreign invaders’ hands? Check
Your hands and my hands, NOPE NEVER NO MORE.
This is probably the most charitable thing I’ve seen written about the ATF, other than comments by the ATF itself, in quite some time.
They’re not doing any of that.
They’re openly declaring war on FFLs in an attempt to convince people it’s not worth hassle. They can’t stop you from keeping and bearing arms or ammo, but they can stop you from buying them via economics and regulation.
Forwarded this to my neighbor who’s a “kitchen table FFL”. Told him he needs to be sure his t’s are crossed and i’s dotted.
On another note, the ATF has become the fascist strong arm of the Biden admin and needs to be abolished or overhauled.
If anyone is still wondering whether “the cops” will turn against Americans if things really go sideways, I present to for your consideration [insert your favorite Federal alphabet letter agency here].
I believe one of the reasons why the Leftist Elites are pushing the “othering” to divide us as a society is so that their JBTs will never see their fellow Americans as friends, but always as opponents.
Yep. United we stand.
Racism works better then propaganda.
United we stand and divided we fall. But how can we stand when so many of us are inclined to fight each other first?
Not aiming my comment at you, Possum…I’m just expressing my frustration at how fractured we are here on a pro-2a site, even if you don’t count d and mf’er.
The problem is that every year that passes, the number of Americans that were Baby boomers in the military goes down, and the millennials, (who do not understand the Constitution or individual rights) and as of late any other rainbow group goes up. The younger ones have no conception of individual rights.
Government employees will do whatever they’re told to do. They are not concerned with what is right or wrong.
It’s as if they enjoy poking the bear or playing with fire!
Let the American people not forget the fiasco that happened at Waco Tx, under President Bill Clinton, and Janet Reno as Attorney General.
Anyone think Merrick Garland is not cut from the same cloth as Janet Reno?
Just following order’s mein herr! This pretty much looks like a declaration of war. Prepare accordingly🙄
This administration thinks the Bill of Rights are mere suggestions granted by the government. They want to start incidents involving the shooting of innocent people that they raid to make the news and to push home their agenda of comply or die!! This is how revolutions are created when people get sick and tired of the 2 tiered system of government. They are pushing people because as Biden glibly stated that these people( meaning Gun owners) think they can overthrow the government but can’t because the government has F-16s. Somebody needs to make the point that the Viet Congress didn’t hVe an Air Force although North Vietnam had a very small one and we lost that war. We spent 20 years In Afghanistan and Iraq and lost those wars to people without helicopters, jets, tanks etc.
Biden and his minions are so incredibly arrogant and treat the rest of us like we work for them and are pond scum. The fight is coming. Obama and Biden have created this divide with Biden trying to out do Obama. There will be a reckoning in this world or the next!!
your nom de plume reminds me of bailey quarters (swoon).
i think you mean o’blamma is trying to outdo o’blamma, ol’ nincompoops his pants hasn’t created anything besides soiled undies.
“your nom de plume reminds me of bailey quarters (swoon).”
Yeah, I really wanted a taste of that, myself, I think it was the haircut.
Her and Dawn Wells (Maryanne)…
Biden, Biden, Biden, do you really think that decrepit old man is really running things? The big question is, who is running our government? Biden has been taking bribes from foreign governments. Evidently, they are the ones calling the shots in Washington. Corrupt administrators are running all of our government agencies. Nothing surprises me anymore. All moral principles have been abandoned in this country. We like to think we are a moral society, but are we really? Climate change is the wrath of God. The big lie is that it is caused by mankind. We are living in the last days so buckle up buttercup, you ain’t seen nothing yet.
“Climate change is the wrath of God“
Well, at least you’re now admitting that climate change is real.
We’re making some progress here.
The climate has changed for millennia. It’s commies such as yourselves that want to blame humans for it, for the sole purpose of taking away our rights.
Climate change has always been real, miner. It happens throughout history. Quite a bit before man came on the scene.
Your problem is that you have a political agenda to push. Nothing less accurate than a human with an agenda to push.
“We’re making some progress here.”
Who’s ‘We’ mutha fcker?
Yep, that axial tilt thingy really changes the weather, doesn’t it?
“Biden has been taking bribes from foreign governments“
If you actually had credible evidence to back up your assertion, you really should be sending it to Gym Jordan and Comer Simpson.
The evidence is out there for anyone to see, who chooses to see it and is not blinded by their leftist mentality.
“The evidence is out there for anyone to see“
Really? So when are we going to hear of the 17 tapes of ‘bribery’? When will the Republican’s clandestine Chinese communist agent Gal Lufts show up and testify before Congress?
When will Tucker share his secret hard drive of the contents of ‘Hunter Biden’s laptop’?
Yeah, Like Donald Trump’s United States Attorney General Bill Barr said, “It’s all bullshit”, you got nothing but empty speech and rumors.
Liar69er, maybe this will help you to solve your problem.
Why A Narcissist Lies And What It Says About Them
Sooner or later everyone tells a lie. In fact, over a lifetime, we all tell many lies. The narcissist, however, is a liar. It isn’t just what they do, it is who they are. — https://psychcentral.com/blog/good-daughter/2019/08/why-a-narcissist-lies-and-what-it-says-about-them
Once more ‘man with no brain’ makes a less than subtle attack calling me a liar.
Of course you must post these ad hominem attacks, you have no factual basis to attack the statements I make because they are true.
Come on and be a man, what is your response to my question about the alleged 17 tapes of Biden corruption?
Aren’t you upset you’re Republican representatives in Congress are giving aid and comfort to a dual citizen Iranian/Chinese foreign agent?
In other good news:
“Special Counsel Jack Smith has sent a target letter to a Donald Trump employee for potential charges relating to obstruction of surveillance footage at Mar-A-Lago“
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6jlYqQmgpXI
“Someone who lies a lot may be called a “pathological liar.”
“Pathological liars are frequently untruthful for no good reason. They harm themselves with their behavior, but keep doing it despite any consequences.” — https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/what-to-know-pathological-liars
“do you really think that decrepit old man is really running things?”
Remember when Donald Trump wanted to dissolve NATO?
Thanks to Joe Biden, America’s alliance with the world’s democracies is stronger than ever. Joe Biden is currently on the world stage. He is leading a united NATO, after his predecessor publicly sided with Vladimir Putin over U.S. intelligence leaders. NATO welcoming Sweden and Finland in a display of solidarity and strength.
Please just go away. You are a troll and most likely paid to monitor this page and the comments made by people which you report to your controllers. Stop trying to stir a pot and just quietly go somewhere else. Thank you.
Liar69er —
No, Trump threatened NATO to get the other members to pay up what they owed. And he was strong, but polite to our adversaries. Sleepy Joe comes in and tells the world that Putin is afraid of him. Putin then invades the Ukraine.
“paid to monitor this page and the comments made by people which you report to your controllers“
You flatter yourself, as if this bunch of keyboard commandos needs monitoring.
No, I just have a little extra time on my hands to bring the light of wisdom and knowledge to this, one of the darkest corners of the inter-web.
In between doing shots of EKY ‘shine to celebrate further convictions and sentencing of the seditionists, I enjoy reading through the hilarious posts by the folks on this forum.
12 Tips to Break a Lying Habit
https://www.healthline.com/health/how-to-stop-lying
“Remember when Donald Trump wanted to dissolve NATO?”
What a disingenuous disgusting lie. He wanted to get NATO nations to uphold their commitment of investing 2 percent of their GDP for NATO’s defense budget.
You’re getting worse all the time. He didn’t want t” to dissolve NATO.
So when are you going to start with that knowledge and wisdom there minor. Thus far a bunch of contextually challenged cherry picked segments of info and government sponsored agendas are about all you provide and if I wanted that level of infotainment I would turn on the TV.
“He didn’t want t” to dissolve NATO“
“April 2, 2016 — Trump doubles down on NATO criticism at a Racine, WI campaign rally, but admits he’s only a recent study on the NATO topic:
“I said here’s the problem with NATO: it’s obsolete. Big statement to make when you don’t know that much about it, but I learn quickly.”
Fortunately for the free world, it turns out Donald Trump is’The Obsolete Man’…
Those wounds on your back from crawling under the Lower Dumbphukkistan border fence heal yet?
“…to bring the light of wisdom and knowledge to this, one of the darkest corners of the inter-web.”
More troll hubris. Note the Christ-like image he paints for himself. He’s making a HUGE sacrifice all for us. Even Jesus could not do that, according to this troll.
Ladies and gentlemen, this is not just the narcissism of a mere mortal; this is some mental illness level self-deity worship going on right there.
He’s so self-important that he believes we who resist trolls like this are just fools, consigned to living in the darkness of our own ignorance. If only we would just give this person our worship, then he could light a candle and bring us his light of truth and knowledge.
How saintly.
Except that we can smell bullsh!t when it’s upwind of us. This troll is full of it and it’s been fermenting in the heat of his hubris for way too long.
Dude, you need a healthy bowel movement very badly. Probably ought to see a doctor about that before you explode and lose your sh!t everywhere.
Ths sort of atitude puts me in mind of things like ol’Reno’s little kerfuffle down there in Waco some years back. And the more recent one with the Malheur Refuge where the knotsea governess of Oregon ordered the visible leader to be “dealt with”. At least that one was a precision surgincal strike with only two victims… the man she had assassinated, and the truth. If this attitude persists, the Branch Davidian massacre will be a two bit sideshow. And it will be “game on”. Terrifying, but having studied the decades loing run=up to the events of 19th April 1775, this is shaping up to be a rerun.
Nope, the surveillance and weapons discrepancy are way different.
Had the Kings men utilized biological and nuclear weapons delivered by fast movers that you never see the Patriots would have lost.
This war needs to be fought within, sabotage and inefficiency in production.
“He said if I wanted to sell a Browning shotgun to someone at a gun show with no paperwork, that’s no problem, but when I sell a GLOCK or an AR lower that’s a ‘gangbanger.’ I asked him where it said that in the regs.”
This seems to conflate two issues. If he’s a non-FFL selling occasionally from his own collection, it could go either way. If he’s an FFL (“kitchen table” or otherwise) who openly admits to selling anything without paperwork, I think he’s fuct no matter how good his penmanship or records.
Yes. They weren’t clear on that. You’re welcome to make private sells at gun shows, your house, or a random parking lot (if legal in your jurisdiction) as long as you’re not an FFL! Was he making “private” sells without background checks, etc.?
“If he’s an FFL (“kitchen table” or otherwise) who openly admits to selling anything without paperwork“
Hi, there’s the rub.
“You’re welcome to make private sells at gun shows, your house, or a random parking lot (if legal in your jurisdiction) as long as you’re not an FFL!“
So yes, this individual admitted to engaging in private sales without the paperwork, it’s a federal crime so it’s no surprise he received a visit.
@Miner49er
once again your lack of knowing what context means shows your ignorance.
first, an FFL holder can indeed sell his/her own privately owned firearms in personal sales without any paperwork, if the state allows that and there is no federal law against it.
second, what you quoted was taken out of context. Hes talking about that the ATF implying that in order to put pressure on him because the ATF implies that he got an FFL so he could claim the firearms were all his personally and sale them in personal sales, in other words the ATF is implying he got an FFL as a means to circumvent the law which isn’t true.
clarification for: “first, an FFL holder can indeed sell his/her own privately owned firearms in personal sales without any paperwork, if the state allows that and there is no federal law against it.”
there isn’t a federal law against it if its the FFL holders personally owned firearms.
I was unaware of that detail, and apologize for contributing to the confusion.
40oz, I am glad you are not an attorney.
Whatever it is you did do, if you were good at it you should stay in that job.
“first, an FFL holder can indeed sell his/her own privately owned firearms in personal sales without any paperwork, if the state allows that and there is no federal law against it“
Of course, you have oversimplified the law by issuing a blanket statement that is at best misleading.
Many FFL holders have tried the ‘personal firearms’ dodge in order to sell weapons to otherwise prohibited persons, and they are prosecuted and sent to prison:
“A licensee may log business firearms out of the acquisition and disposition (A&D) record as a personal firearm.
If that firearm is sold within a year of having been transferred to the licensee’s personal collection, the licensee must re–enter the firearm in the business A&D record, and sell or transfer the firearm as business inventory, including completing an ATF Form 4473 and a NICS background check if required.
If, however, the firearm is held in the personal collection of the licensee for more than one year, the firearm may be sold as the licensee’s personal firearm. Although no ATF Form 4473 or NICS background check is required, the licensee must record the disposition of the personal firearm in a personal disposition record.”
[18 U.S.C. 923(c); 27 CFR 478.125a]
“If you decide to sell a personal firearm (that’s been in your collection for more than a year), you must still keep a record of the date of sale, along with the make, model, serial number, and caliber of the firearm. Additionally, you need to keep a record of the buyer’s name, address, and date of birth. You must verify this information on some form of identification before you can complete the sale.
If you transfer a firearm to your personal collection and then decide you would like to transfer it to someone else before the year has passed, you must transfer it back to your FFL, and then from your FFL to the receiver using the normal process (Form 4473, background check, waiting period, etc.).
The only benefit to selling a firearm from your personal collection instead of first moving it to your business inventory is reduced paperwork. But to the ATF, that looks suspicious. It looks like the seller is willfully evading regulations to sell to someone who isn’t eligible.“
https://www.fastbound.com/ffl-blog/personal-firearms-and-your-ffl-business/
40oz, I am glad you are not an attorney.
Whatever it is you did do, if you were good at it you should stay in that job.
“first, an FFL holder can indeed sell his/her own privately owned firearms in personal sales without any paperwork, if the state allows that and there is no federal law against it“
Of course, you have oversimplified the law by issuing a blanket statement that is at best misleading.
Many FFL holders have tried the ‘personal firearms’ dodge in order to sell weapons to otherwise prohibited persons, and they are prosecuted and sent to prison:
“A licensee may log business firearms out of the acquisition and disposition (A&D) record as a personal firearm.
If that firearm is sold within a year of having been transferred to the licensee’s personal collection, the licensee must re–enter the firearm in the business A&D record, and sell or transfer the firearm as business inventory, including completing an ATF Form 4473 and a NICS background check if required.
If, however, the firearm is held in the personal collection of the licensee for more than one year, the firearm may be sold as the licensee’s personal firearm. Although no ATF Form 4473 or NICS background check is required, the licensee must record the disposition of the personal firearm in a personal disposition record.”
[18 U.S.C. 923(c); 27 CFR 478.125a]
Show of hands — who believes Liar69er?
Not one hand is up? Not one? You mean no one believes him?
Liar69er — credibility, it’s what’s for breakfast. Someone apparently ate yours.
@Miner49er
“Of course, you have oversimplified the law by issuing a blanket statement that is at best misleading.
Many FFL holders have tried the ‘personal firearms’ dodge in order to sell weapons to otherwise prohibited persons, and they are prosecuted and sent to prison:
“A licensee may log business firearms out of the acquisition and disposition (A&D) record as a personal firearm.”
Once again you show your ignorance by not using or understanding ‘context’ actual research and not knowing how to read and comprehend
““A licensee may log business firearms out of the acquisition and disposition (A&D) record as a personal firearm.”
It still belongs to the ‘business’ but they are simply using it ‘personally’ which is why they need to log it out.
That’s true, but that’s not a personally PURCHASED and owned firearm. Its two different things. One is still a ‘business’ firearm that’s logged out for personal use and the other is a personally purchased and owned firearm.
The firearms in this article in reference to ‘personal’ firearms were his own personally purchased and owned firearm. A FFL can sell their own personally purchased and owned firearms and there is no federal law that prohibits it.
“40oz, I am glad you are not an attorney.”
No one needs to be an “attorney” to understand this. All they need to be able to do is understand what context is and how to do some actual research and how to read and comprehend, all of which are skills you obviously lack.
Face it Miner49, you are a liar and moron.
40oz, I quoted the code showing that there are restrictions to the sale of personal firearms by FFL holders.
Believe what you will, and in any case we will watch the FFL holder in this article sent prison for violating federal law.
@Miner49er
“40oz, I quoted the code showing that there are restrictions to the sale of personal firearms by FFL holders.”
You liar, you did not quote any such thing.
This is what you quoted, the answer is right there in front of you in your own quote but your confirmation bias doesn’t let you see it….
“A licensee may log business firearms out of the acquisition and disposition (A&D) record as a personal firearm.”
You quoted code showing that an FFL can log out a BUSINESS firearm for personal use. ‘LOG OUT’ you moron, one does not need to ‘log out’ their personally purchased and owned firearms and if they were to personally purchase that firearm it is no longer a business firearm but becomes their o0wn personal property.
Logging out a business firearm is is not the same as a FFL PERSONALLY BUYING AND THEN OWING THAT OR ANY firearm. There is no federal law that prohibits an FFL from personally buying a firearm from the business or any one else.
There is no federal law that prohibits an FFL from selling their own personally purchased firearms in a person-person private sale with no 4473, period.
Personally buying and selling personally owned property is a constitutional right. The Due Process Clause of the U.S. Constitution protects “life, liberty, or property” without qualification. And, for nearly a century, the U.S. Supreme Court has consistently treated property as a fundamental right, forbidding the government from imposing arbitrary or irrational restrictions on its use which includes purchase or sale.
There is no federal law against a FFL holder selling his/her own personally purchased and owned firearms, period. They just can’t use the FFL to ‘primarily’ promote it or do it and there is no proof that this guy did this for if there were there would have been a warrant backed by probable cause and the ATF would not have needed his permission to come there and would not have tried to pressure him to surrender the firearms voluntarily.
You are ignorant on this subject. You don’t know how to read and comprehend properly, you don’t know what ‘context’ means’, and you don’t know how to do proper research.
40oz, my reply still stands.
I quoted the code showing that there are restrictions to the sale of personal firearms by FFL holders.
If these restrictions are not observed by the FFL holder, they will be subject to enforcement actions just as the FFL holder in this article.
Believe what you will, and in any case we will watch the FFL holder in this article sent prison for violating federal law.
@Miner49er
“I quoted the code showing that there are restrictions to the sale of personal firearms by FFL holders.”
Once again you lie. And the rest of your post is a lie also.
And another thing you missed – he was not charged with a crime. That’s right, he has not been charged with a crime. Where as you in your stupidity claim he has committed a crime.
No warrant, no probable cause, they unlawfully ‘imprison’ and detain him by cuffing him about an hour, subject him to threats and coercive techniques and threat of deadly force use, endanger him and his son, refuse to tell him what crimes he has committed, violate his civil rights – and all this because he made a couple of clerical errors on a couple of forms.
No, we will not watch “the FFL holder in this article sent prison for violating federal law.” because he did not violate the law you claim he did, and in fact has not been charged with a crime. And even if he were somehow eventually charged with a crime there is simply too much here to show there was no ‘intent to commit a crime’ and too much where the ATF acted illegally.
MINOR Miner49er, quoting a section of the code means that you give its exact wording as well as its section and what your source is. You did none of that. Now are you a liar or just trying to skate out from the accusation that you are a liar?
If I were this guy, I’d sue the crap out of the ATF!
He should have shut his fat gob and called a lawyer.
Never, ever, ever voluntarily give up your guns unless you’re OK with never seeing them again. If the JBT’s have a valid legal reason to take them they would have already packed them up instead of asking you. Countless examples of the guns being trapped forever in the government black hole.
Totally agree!
Far worse than that, RGP!
I have worked in County and Defense jobs where people who get away with putting hurt on others are neither moderated, reprimanded or disciplined.
My point is that some people, when given the opportunity, will gleefully “leave the reservation”. They will go into what the Marine Corps calls their OFP, or “Own Flipping Program”. Make up their own rules, egged on by their own misconceptions and fantasies.
Could be a County secretary, a lower management supervisor or a radio repair technician. Doesn’t matter. An incredible amount of unsavory and illegal damage can be done. Sometimes with management’s full approval. Whole departments can almost cease to function. Lots of people can be hurt, and have their life’s work nullified.
It would be great if Psychologists and Psychiatrists were busy studying this issue. Too bad they are busy telling Tommy that he should change his name to Suzy…
that perfectly describes baby groots career, before she became chickagoo mayor.
Anybody surprised? We have a criminal fascist admin in DC. Naturally their enforcers are going to love stomping on freedom.
If this is true then we have nothing but 18th. century British-style tyranny. It’s what the Democrat (communists) want to appease the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) for their UN agenda. We were told this was coming. Obviously the guns they had “tracers” on were those they sold illegally via Operation Fast & Furious but how is an uninvolved FFL going to know this is yet to be determined. Welcome to the Obama-Biden tyrant regime.
it’s very disturbing, obv., but esp. due to the culture and laws of okie dokie.
Direct orders from the ‘Big Guy’, besides he’ll tell you he wrote the Bill of Rights. At the end of the day ‘Big Guy’ can giveth your rights and taketh your rights.
quite: no gangbanger would be shooting people with a $2,000 Benelli.
not unless saud gangbanger had stolen said Benelli three nights ago in a housebreaking……
And we never DID get any clues as to how a punk teenager with a grunt entry level part time job had the dough-ray-me to purchase a $7000 Daniel Defense AR pattern rifle from a local FFL, then take said rifle in a $50,000 plus Big boy pickup when he went to shoot up the little school they have there in Uvalde Texas.
I’d think this kid qualifies as a “gangbanger” and it is nown he used a rifle more than three times as dear as this fictitional “$2000 Benelli” to murder a sizeable number of innocents.
What’s this BATF goon got fer brains, anyway? He certainly has no heart…..
“purchase a $7000 Daniel Defense AR pattern rifle from a local FFL, then take said rifle in a $50,000 plus Big boy pickup“
Unbelievably hilarious, your ignorance of the facts is breathtaking. Perhaps you might want to solve your confused state of mind by actually researching your questions before you open your mouth and remove all doubt.
And again, all you have is insults, without substance.
I understand how badly you want to believe there’s some deep dark conspiracy behind the Uvalde shooting, but unfortunately once again it was a poorly supervised youth with mental issues who had easy access to firearms purchases.
Let me help you folks through your confusion with two facts.
Your claim:
“purchase a $7000 Daniel Defense AR pattern rifle from a local FFL
The facts:
“Ramos also “ordered a Daniel Defense DDM4 V7 (an AR-15-style rifle) for shipment to a gun store in Uvalde, at a cost of $2,054.28 (including tax and transfer fee),’’ the probe found.
$7000? Hilarious, he worked fast food and was able to come up with the $2000 that he actually spent.
“a $50,000 plus Big boy pickup“
What’s so strange about a kid driving his grandma‘s truck?
“Authorities said Ramos shot and wounded his grandmother early Tuesday before fleeing the scene. Neighbors told The Post he then stole his grandmother’s truck and crashed it into a nearby ditch before going into the school and opening fire.“
No conspiracy? Doesn’t seem to track with the last 2 decades of policy development and messaging for a variety of topics but you are free to be a liar or a fool.
Liar69er has both of those bases covered, easily.
“Liar69er has both of those bases covered, easily“
Again with the empty insults.
You do realize that suggesting the Uvalde shooter was part of some conspiracy makes reasonable people question your mental competence and stability.
You have not a shred of credible evidence to suggest that kid was in anyway connected with any ‘deep state conspiracy’, yet you continue to support the crazy notion that this is all part of some big plot.
Sadly, it seems your cognitive ability is not sufficient for you to grasp the reality of the situation.
“You do realize that suggesting the Uvalde shooter was part of some conspiracy makes reasonable people question your mental competence and stability.”
You do realize that I wasn’t the one making those assertions?
“Sadly, it seems your cognitive ability is not sufficient for you to grasp the reality of the situation.”
And you can’t keep straight to whom you are responding. Cognitive ability much?
Oh, and you’re a liar, Liar69er.
You claimed I was a liar when I pointed out that the claim about the purchase of a $7000 Daniel defense rifle was false.
“Liar69er has both of those bases covered, easily“
“Oh, and you’re a liar, Liar69er“
Again, empty insults.
Empty insults that fit an empty man………..well if the shoe fits there miner.
MINOR Miner49er, pardon us! We have caught you in so many lies that when you claim you bought a $7000 rifle, you will find us to be at best incredulous. Would you care to provide some proof of this “purchase”?
It is not an “insult” if it is an accurate description of who and what you are.
Make certain that you have made an inventory noting the S/N of each gun along with a description of what ever scopes or refits that are on the gun to include their serial numbers so that in a suit to get your illegally confiscated weapons with the attachments can be fully described. The ATF will deny they are in possession of the weapons. I have read stories of confiscated weapons ending up in the personal weapons caches of the agents as they take what they want and like knowing it will be near impossible for the victim to ever get the weapons back. Taking pictures of each gun with attachments should also be done and stored separately on a thumb drive just in case the confiscate the computers as well!!!
Do not sign the forms they put in front of you as they will most likely contain a “voluntary” waiver of any claims to the confiscated guns!! There should be a separate form providing the inventory and an acknowledgement of the weapons being taken however you are not voluntarily turning over the weapons and object to the confiscation!!
If you have a membership with groups such as the USCCA call their Critical Response number right away in order to get a lawyer right away! The minute the ATF makes the “nice” phone call get a lawyer because you are already on their Sh!t list!!!
Just look at those earnest goycattle eyes. No wonder the Bidenistas could do this…he couldn’t spell “lawyer” if his life depended on it.
The “it’s my collection” vs ffl gun has always been a sticking point for decades.
I’ll wait on the video
This kind of crap is why I never had any interest in having an FFL since that is the equivalent of inviting Jack Booted Thugs into your life.
This guy should have had them on camera the entire time since it makes it difficult for them to deny what they said and did plus it helps when you sue them (JBTs hate video evidence of their misbehavior). Really good to have a lawyer on hand to safeguard your rights (JBTs hate for you to have a lawyer). Also a great idea to shut the hell up when dealing with agenda driven JBTs.
Well as long as the general public lets them get away with this sort of thing the more it reinforces their ability to do it. Every individual has to make the decision for themselves whether to allow their lives to be shaped by a Government that is out of control and intends to enslave them or do as the Founding Fathers did when they told King George, enough is enough. So you decide, Give me Liberty or Give me Death. Apparently they are not going to
give you Liberty unless you decide to fight for yourself. Interesting that in addition to the DOJ, FBI, IRS, ATF, Homeland Security, and now the Secret Service who will not reveal the marijuana and cocaine culprits in the White House we have at least 6 Federal Law Enforcement agencies that are totally untrustworthy. I wonder if this is a parallel to Nazi Germany, China, Russia, North Korea and other dictatorial regimes????? This is the same Government that not only allows but supports thousands of young children to be illegally trafficked and does little or nothing to really stop it from happening. I guess many people have lost both their moral and ethical underpinning by continually electing these radical Leftists to our Government.
How the ATF Could Literally Shut Down Any Gun Store in America Right Now.
” one of the agents pulled out a piece of paper and said, ‘Well then sign here.’ ”
If you fail an IQ test that badly, I don’t know what to tell you.
Sign nothing.
Say nothing.
Defense attorney present for ALL encounters.
The war is ongoing and the government has started on the offensive. Now someone is going to get killed. SE Oklahoma is a good place for pushy outsiders to disappear.
Sure they do, trust the government, esp. the ATF, they aren’t out to get you, that’s just paranoia. There’s no reason at all to be concerned that they sent a swat team to raid your home.
AS I understand the law this guy has every right nto appeal the seizure of his firearms through the Courts. Here in the UK the POLICE or other officials have to abide by the law and I had always assumed that this was true in the USA.
So her we have a situation wherby a guy has dozens of firearms r thathe takes to GUN SHIOWS is apparently a LICENSED DEALER but then tell h us he has not d sold doe NOT sell guns at shows. [the fact that his is also a bloody TEACHER , PREACHER-MAN or anything else is totally immaterial!!]
All that being so you have to wonder just what all this weaponry, enough to start a minor war, is actually for. Nobody needs anything but a e decent 9mm and a suitable X5 shot BOLTACTION RIFLE for any legitimate purpose do they.
But I repeat that the AGENTS/OFFICERS involved either LEGALLY or they acted ILLEGALLY. If they acted ILLEGALLY the recourse is obvious.
“Here in the UK the POLICE or other officials have to abide by the law and I had always assumed that this was true in the USA.”
It’s not. That’s what you get when you assume.
Due Process doesn’t work that way. The agents/officers are not allowed to act illegally, though it has been proven that they do in a number of FFL appeals that the ATF has lost. The constitutional protections we should have over here in the former colonies are far different that how the legal system works in UK.
enough with the “needs” argument…you’re free to acquire any and all the firearms you want
Bertie, Guess you’ve never had to deal with a pack of coyotes, or sounder of feral hogs, or a pack of feral dogs. Play around with a bolt rifle, unless you’ve mastered the Mad Minute, and are exceptionally accurate, and you may be seriously injured, or lunch. A semi auto rifle is the best tool for the job. Either that or have a squad of fellow shooters in your pocket.
What little hunting is allowed in England or Scotland is usually without threat of predators. And last I checked, feral hogs or wild Eurasian Boar were not an issue there. Been a couple centuries since you had large predators there as well. So take your antiquated rifles and your sub caliber pop guns and stick them where they’ll do some good.
We got rid of the ‘needs’ argument when we threw out the British..
A “BRITISH SUBJECT” being paid to “TROLL” American gun sites!!!
Who’s butt is still hurting from when we ran them out of USA..
And still hurting from having the USA keeping him/she/it, speaking only two languages German and Japanese!!!
Please remain in the UK and a subject of the king. We are a free people, we have a Bill of Rights, not a bill of needs. The argument isn’t how many guns he has, that is irrelevant to the discussion or the actions of the ATF. They did this to a US citizen because of alleged paperwork errors not because any real crime was committed.
“They did this to a US citizen because of alleged paperwork errors not because any real crime was committed“
No, from the article it seems he was buying firearms, claiming they were personal firearms and selling them without the proper paperwork and background checks. This is one of the main avenues for prohibited persons including the mentally ill and violent felons to obtain firearms for their criminal work.
Of course, many on this list are just fine with violent felons and the mentally ill obtaining firearms, it’s part of their strange delusions.
Yes yes and I am sure proper warrants were taken, appropriate procedures were followed, and no weaponized agency behavior was displayed. LOL it must burn that even if you are right nobody here or anywhere that has being paying attention will believe you.
“This is one of the main avenues for prohibited persons including the mentally ill and violent felons to obtain firearms for their criminal work.”
Err, no. Interviews with the crooks in the can don’t support that.
Most obtain their weapons by THEFT.
Try again. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200.
So keep spreading your MARXIST manure!!!
@Miner49er
“No, from the article it seems he was buying firearms, claiming they were personal firearms and selling them without the proper paperwork and background checks. This is one of the main avenues for prohibited persons including the mentally ill and violent felons to obtain firearms for their criminal work.”
100% false
He bought his own personal firearms. He did not buy firearms for his FFL business then claim they were his personal firearms. In fact in the article it says “They took more than 50 of my personal guns,” and what he was referring to are the guns he purchased for his own personal collection.
You didn’t understand anything in the article, you read it with your usual confirmation bias.
What the ATF accused was that he got an FFL to promote selling of his own personally owned guns at gun shows.
Basically; The way this happens at gun shows is a person wants to buy a gun and goes to an FFL (who sets up at a gun show as an FFL business) who then offers, as the primary goal of the business and reason for having an FFL, to sell their own personally purchased and owned gun to them as an alternative to the person buying a gun at a higher price so by doing a person to person sale there is no 4473 as there would not be in any person-person sale of private property personally owned guns.
An FFL can’t be used ‘primarily’ to promote or conduct sales of the personally owned firearms of the FFL holder, but an FFL holder can indeed sell their personally purchased and owned firearms in person-person sales without a 4473. The only thing they can’t do is use the FFL ‘business’ primarily to do that, and if an FFL sets up as a gun show as a ‘business’ and does that the FFL becomes ‘primarly’ about promoting the person-person sales of their own personally owned firearms.
The ATF is accusing he did that, used the FFL as a means to, at a gun show, promote his own personally purchased and owned firearms sales in person-person private sales – or in other words ‘getting around the system’.
There is nothing to substantiate this. In your confirmation bias reading and not understanding what context is you completely missed that there was no warrant, they didn’t have probable cause. They had to get him to consent for them to come there and they used subterfuge to do that. Then they had to get him to let them take the firearms because they did not have a warrant so they cuffed him and pressured him until he consented to surrender his FFL so they could then seize what was claimed by them to be ‘evidence’.
FFL / SOT here.
I can buy as many guns as I want on a 4473 for my own collection, if I ever need to or want to sell those guns they go back on my bound book and get sold through a 4473 or to another dealer. This is the recommendation from our IOI who maintained that we could go back and forth in and out of the book as much as we wanted as long as nothing was disposed without a 4473 or to another licensed dealer in a dealer to dealer transfer.
It doesn’t matter if I just want to dump the guns for quick cash to pay bills at a pawn shop, they still go on my books. It doesn’t matter if I have a large personal collection and simply have an FFL for gunsmithing and don’t really do many retail sales I have to log those guns back in from me into the bound book and out to the purchaser in a federally approved manner through either a 4473 form or a FFL to FFL Xfer.
There is no official description of what “being in the business of” consists of within the ATF. This was relayed to me by multiple special agents and two IOIs. I can work on two guns or two thousand a year and still sell my personal items as long as they’re logged in and sold through a 4473 or to another dealer.
Most small setups like me are sole prop. Not LLC or incorporated. The line between you and the business is almost non-existent which is why only a sole prop. can log out guns to himself without a 4473.
I cannot sell my personally owned firearms without a 4473 or xfer under any circumstance.
It’s far more likely this gentleman was selling his personal items without logging them in or completing a NICS check.
In which case, F him. He gives the rest of us small ops a bad name.
@CB1988
“I cannot sell my personally owned firearms without a 4473 or xfer under any circumstance.”
The ATF rule on this is that you can’t IF you use your status as an FFL to do so. This victim in the article didn’t do that even though thats what the ATF accused. Which is why they didn’t have a warrant yet still only seized his personally owned firearms and why they have not charged him with a crime.
@CB1988
“I cannot sell my personally owned firearms without a 4473 or xfer under any circumstance.”
The ATF rule on this is that you can’t IF you use your status as an FFL to do so. This victim in the article didn’t do that even though thats what the ATF accused. Which is why they didn’t have a warrant yet still only seized his personally owned firearms and why they have not charged him with a crime.
an FFL holder is free to sell their own purchased owned firearms in private sales without a 4473. There is not a federal law against it, its only an ATF rule that you can’t use your status as an FFL to sell your personally owned firearms.
what this guy did was set up at gun shows as an FFL, but sold his personally owned firearms when not at the show acting as an FFL so did not use his status as an FFL to sell his personally owned firearms but the ATF is claiming that he did.
Sell some drugs, kill a couple people. No big deal. Out the same day, slap on the wrist.
Forget to dot an I or cross a t prepare to have your life ruined.
There’s no greater crime to the state than one of bureaucracy.
WHOW , THAT’S A BUMMER . I THOUGHT WOULD BE ABLE TO DEAL OUT OF HOME USING YOUR FFL , KEPT RECORDS OF TANSACTIONS . TURN IN SELLS TO ATF . GUESS NOT ..
NOW I KNOW THA WHOLE STORY .
OUCH , HOPE CAN GET HIS WEAPONS BACK , AND NOT TO MUCH $$$ ,
SAME O SAME O CAN’T CATCH THE CRIMINALS OR DRUG LORDS . GO AFTER LAW-ABIDING .
Don’t want people to make sales without FFLs/Don’t want FFLs to exist. You tell me what the goal is here.
If I was him I’d go try to get my FFL back and claim that the relinquishment was done under duress.
Every time I think about how the Branch Davidians whipped their arses and sent them running with their tail between their legs… I just smile…
it’s the 90’s all over again..expect the “purge” to continue……if they want you gone they’ll find a reason….seen it all before
That is what is alleged. Doesn’t mean it’s true or are you a guilty until proven innocent type? An FFL is permitted to purchase guns for his private collection and to sell them. According to the ATF agent’s statement it was a single Glock he sold. Hardly a conspiracy to sell guns to prohibited persons. The accusation certainly doesn’t fit the lifestyle of the accused.
Wow.
And then “Tell your ffl buddies we’re coming after them.”
That’s Freedom in America by golly.
His biggest mistake, as I and others have pointed out, was cooperating with the ATF without legal representation in the first place.
This isn’t the first time ATF has targeted Table Top FFLs. They also did this in the 90s shuting down and revoking any FFL that did not have a Store Front.
“One agent told me they hate home FFLs,” Fincher said.
This statement says it all about our fed agencies…they just don’t hate home FFLs, IMHO, they hate all of us gun owners.
Suppressor owners, I hear you knockin Just have to check the paperwork
Oklahoma governor should have issued a Blue Alert that a “Theodore Mongell” is impersonating a federal agent in attempt to steal firearms, he is considered armed and dangerous. Force the ATF to avow his actions.
This article pisses me off. And so typical, the ffl dude is totally compliant and the ATF are all nicey nice until they come and arrest him. Then its show of force and just hoping the ffl guy makes a sudden move so the ATF can gunm him down in front of his son.
“Tell your ffl buddies we’re coming to get them.” How the fck can a government agency get away with making terroristic threats against an American civilian. So the Bureau has decided who the enemy is and its us.
Quite frightening when conspiracy theories and paranoia becomes reality.
Shotgunms okay but an AR is gangster?
How many fronts can an army fight before it loses? Half the world despises the U.S. and our own giverment is making this countries law abiding citizens into the enemy.
,,,,,,,
President Biden is the greatest president America has or ever will have
President Biden is the greatest president America has or ever will have
President Biden is the greatest president America has or ever will have
Holy Holy Holy
Forever and ever. Amen
Frog 1: “Is it getting warm in here?”
Frog 2: “What?”
Consider this article against the backdrop of other goings-on across several areas of interest, including the change in US .mil aircraft SOPs in recent weeks (this behavior seems to abruptly change immediately after the whole balloon thing earlier this year) and you’re not going to like the picture that’s being painted for you.
It strongly suggests that we’re on a path where an entire rat’s nest of problems are going to bite us simultaneously or nearly so.
Also, a side note, the trolls on this thread have taken 37.7% (46/122) of the board as of this post. Someone remind me how interacting with them helps the health of the comment section again?
What’s going to funny is when “Uncle Sam needs you” and nobody shows up.
Considering the recent evidence of political pederasty, who in their right mind would trust ol’ Uncle Sam?
From your lips to God’s ears!
This is a preview of the newly armed IRS agents showing up at your house after receiving your paper tax return with an upside- down stamp on the envelope.
Lead Agent, to others….” Cuff that mother fkr to the telephone pole out front. Confiscate anything in the house that you can’t find a sales tax receipt for. Laptop, file cabinets, ALL that shit goes on the trucks. Put that piggybank in my car… it’s evidence!! Don’t forget to smash anything left behind as an example to others !! “
The bureaucracy is out of control. Their mission is to go after enemies of the regime. Republicans gave them a raise.
Let this be a lesson to FFLs. Never invite the ATF to your home.
I think if you dont invite them they burn down your house and shoot your family.
I still cant believe the ATF showed their true colors on this one. I’ve never thought of myself as an enemy to the State but here we are.
Sad American Patriots are now the enemy.
Adjustments are in order. Americans are going to have to learn to live in a facist dictatorship it appears.
🇺🇸😢
I can guarantee you that the best of the guns they confiscated are now the personal possessions of ATF agents . If he is awarded them back, they will have “dissappeared”.
I have seen it happen.
I can’t help but wonder who these ATF agents are, why they want the job, and what criteria are used to select them to hire.
He should have asked them if they has a 27B/6 form. Just like in the movie “Brazil” (1985) when Central Services shows up…
ATF SWAT Team Raids FFL’s Home.
E4473.COM we help provide safe firearm transfers.
Selling firearms and regulation compliance is no joke. I have been seliing guns since 1969, my mom & dad where the first arrest the ATF made in 1971. They exonerated 10 years later.
I have been developing compliant ATF software solutions since 1980. The first digital A&D book.
There is no leanancy selling a firearm. A typo is critical. Any firearm that shows up in a incident the ATF goes direct to the source of acquisition and get ready any infraction leads to whatever. ATF is responsible for anything firearm related and today they have resources.
permanent block on the miner-nword?
Hey. ATF, go fuck yourselves 🖕🏻
Modern day gestapo, US gov is not out to protect and serve Americans. Dont say or sign anything without a multiple video recordings and lawyer present.