Garen Wintemute
Dr. Garen Wintemute, Director of the UC-Davis Violence Prevention Research Program (AP Photo/Rich Pedroncelli)
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By Lee Williams

California is a violent place, despite having some of the most stringent anti-gun laws in the country.

A new study by the University of California-Davis Firearm Violence Research Center is damning. It reveals that millions of adults in the Golden State have had at least one exposure to what the anti-gun researchers call “experiences of violence” or EVs.

“Research on violence exposure emphasizes discrete acute events such as direct and witnessed victimization. Little is known about the broad range of experiences of violence (EVs) in daily life. This study assesses the prevalence and patterns of distribution of 6 EVs in an adult general population,” the study states.

The researchers defined their EVs as:

  • The occurrence of gunshots and shootings in their neighborhood.
  • Encounters with sidewalk memorials where violent deaths occurred.
  • Direct personal knowledge of individuals who had purposefully been shot by someone else.
  • Direct personal knowledge of individuals who had purposefully shot themselves.
  • Direct personal knowledge of individuals perceived to be at risk of violence to another person.
  • Direct personal knowledge of individuals perceived to be at risk of violence to themselves.

The researchers surveyed 5,018 California residents: 2,870 responded. More than 52% were female. The mean age of the respondents was 47.

The results show:

  • Nearly two-thirds of the respondents reported at least on EV.
  • More than 11% reported three or more EVs.
  • More than 30% of African-Americans reported EVs involving people who had been shot by others.
  • Respondents over 60 years old reported the most EVs involving people who had shot themselves.
  • Respondents aged 18-29 reported knew the most people at risk to violence themselves.

By extrapolating the data, the researchers were able to estimate:

  • More than 3 million California residents had three EVs per year.
  • More than 5 million Californians know someone who was intentionally shot.
  • More than 3 million Californians know two or more people who are at risk of getting shot.

“Experiences of violence in daily life are widespread in the general adult population; many occur in clear patterns that are unlike those seen for violent victimization,” the researchers concluded. “As with victimization, it is plausible that these experiences have durable and cumulative adverse consequences.”

California gun control laws

California requires a permit known as a Firearm Safety Certificate to purchase handguns, rifles and shotguns. The state requires registration of all firearms, and requires that any gun brought into the state be reported to the California Department of Justice. It bans “assault weapons” and standard-capacity magazines.

Sheriff Alex Villanueva
Los Angeles County Sheriff Alex Villanueva (AP Photo/Jae C. Hong)

Technically, California is a “may issue” state for concealed carry permits, but in actuality, many jurisdictions have become “no issue,” unless the applicant is wealthy or a celebrity.

The state requires background checks for both private firearm sales and ammunition purchases. It restricts home-built firearms by requiring anyone who wants to make a firearm in their home to apply to the California DOJ for a serial number.


This study clearly shows that California’s vaunted gun control laws aren’t working. The state is infringing upon the Second Amendment rights of its 39 million residents for no reason, other than perhaps tradition.

California has always trampled on its citizens’ civil rights. However, data shows Californians are finally waking up. In 2021, the state suffered a net loss in population of 0.71, and a loss of 0.71 is projected for 2022.

While conducted by anti-gun researchers and touted by gun control groups, this study actually buttresses what the pro-gun rights community has been saying for decades: a disarmed populace is a vulnerable populace, which will always become a victimized populace.


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This story is part of the Second Amendment Foundation’s Investigative Journalism Project and is published here with their permission.


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  1. The wealthy, the elite, the racist. the big corporations all support gun control.

    Anybody claiming to be for the working class and backing gun control is a liar.

  2. quote————This study clearly shows that California’s vaunted gun control laws aren’t working.————quote

    Well no kidding Dick Tracy.

    California has adopted what all other foreign civilized nations have done decades ago. The reason they have not worked as well as they could have is that guns are funneled into California from States that have lax gun laws which let criminal gun runners buy all the second had guns they want in other states and then sell them for high profits in California. Its not rocket science except of course to the Denisovan’s of the Far Right who claim California’s laws are failures. I am sure even the ancient Neanderthal’s are shaking their heads and laughing.

    quote—————The state is infringing upon the Second Amendment rights of its 39 million residents for no reason,———–quote

    California’s laws were designed to prevent nut cases and criminals from buying second hand guns and building home made ghost guns with no paperwork. California’s laws were designed to prevent smash and grab robberies and reduce child firearms deaths. Foreign civilized nations have had these same laws for decades. Its common sense but pure rocket science to the Neanderthals of the Far Right.

    quote————the state suffered a net loss in population of 0.71, and a loss of 0.71 is projected for 2022.————quote

    Seems like a contradictory statement by the Far Right Racists who Claim that California now has millions of illegal immigrants.

    But it is true that the greed monger Capitalvanians in an effort to pay no income taxes and find cheap slave labor are moving to Red Hillbilly slave states. So what else is new in Capitalvania where people die like dogs in the street from lack of affordable health care and affordable life saving drugs and work part time jobs with no health care benefits, vacations, or even holidays off. Its a paradise for the greed monger Capitalvanians and a hell hole for the worker troglodyte worker slave serfs. As most of the Far Right have always screamed “Let them die like dogs in the street and decrease the surplus population of troglodyte worker slaves”. Ebenezer Scrooge would have been right at home in Capitalvania.

    • Seriously, why don’t you move to a socialist country? I mean a real one. Oh, that’s right. They all suck. Really bad.

      • There is a least a 10 year wait and Western European Countries are looking for people in specialized fields and of course very young workers.

        • So your either to old or unqualified? You knew/thought America was a shithole years ago, so that’s no excuse. It seems like with all your collage edjication there would have to be a “Civilized country” that would want you. My nephews a college professor and he’s in London England now.
          He was dissatisfied here in the states so he moved, he also doesn’t trash talk America, I’m sure your much smarter then he is.
          So what’s the problem?

        • possum. I’ve been to dacian the nazi’s face book page. He would not be welcome anywhere outside of his country of birth. Add the fact that he’s financially never been solvent and that he’s mentally ill. Who would want him?

          His father is a gunsmith, retired, that ditched him and moved to another town. I see no mention of his son, at all.

          To add insult to injury he brags all the time about these socialist utopias that he will never see because they have not got open borders.. They tougher on immigration than ‘evil’ America.

          My wife and I were in the process of buying a cottage in France when the terrorists actions happened. We decided to not go through with it after the way the French .gov cracked down on their own citizens for being victims.

          It is not hard to move to europe. But you have to not be dacian the nazi.

        • You can’t climb over a wall, swim a river, paddle a raft. Young progs are so lazy. Or you can start a go fund me and I’m sure many here would donate it you LEAVE AND NEVER RETURN.

        • So, you’re saying that you, as a homeless, cartoon character, TidePod eating, college dropout, wouldn’t be what your Dreamworld Socialist Paradises are looking for as a desirable emigree ?? I just wish that you could see my shocked face.

        • to possum

          quote—————My nephews a college professor and he’s in London England now.—————-quote

          He was obviously dissatisfied with the conditions in the U.S. so the choice was easy for him to move when he was offered a position at a university which by the way is not often easy to find in many countries.

        • Yeah, dacian the stupid, the Europeans only want specialized, high-skill workers . . . which would obviously exclude you, and doesn’t explain the flood of North African, Middle Eastern, and uneducated Eastern Europeans they have all been letting in.

          You are simply to stupid to insult.

        • dacian, Obviously you are very dissatisfied with the way this country’s Constitution inhibits your socialist agenda. Don’t you think it is time for you to leave? The 10 year wait not withstanding?

        • “Specialized fields” might not rule out Basketweaving and Leftist Political Thought. Go ahead and apply, they might move you to the front of the line.

      • “Seriously, why don’t you move to a socialist country?”

        They want him less than they wanted Madalyn Murray O’Hair, back around 1960.

    • Slave labor? You mean like in in the glorious no guns allowed workers’ paradise PRC?
      Just admit that you copy paste your posts from who ever writes your checks. We can all tell from the weird way you switch from proper quotation marks to that goofy hyphens and spelling out the word quote.

      • You don’t have to look at China, just look at Australia – a supposedly strongly “democratic” country.

    • As a resident of this state, I can state with absolute certainty that you have no clue what you are talking about. Seriously. People who have no income or limited income qualify for no-cost health insurance. The homeless flood the ERs for no cost health insurance. It is the middle class who pays the brunt of health care costs because they are required by federal law to maintain health insurance but do not qualify for MediCal because their income is too high. Add to that your utter lack of understanding of California laws, including its gun laws. I have lived here for forty years and have yet to hear a single politician complain about the “iron river” of illegal guns that we hear about from mayors of big eastern cities. Other than your every day robbery/burglary laws, there are no special laws dedicated to preventing smash and grabs robberies–and in fact because “certain” DAs in LA and SF refuse to prosecute such crimes, they are happening with great regularity and businesses are closing. The laws pertaining to persons involuntarily confined to a mental health facility are both state AND FEDERAL. ALL guns ales must be through an FFL–which means that all others are illegal, including all second hand sales. This of course means that the criminals are the ones buying guns illegally, not law abiding residents–and they do not obey such laws any way, so whatever the design, the effect is nonexistent.

        • To Jethro W.M.

          Wow, our High School drop out composed 1 complete sentence today. You must be proud Dotard.

        • dacian the nazi. My GED and trade school diplomas bought me a good life.

          Still makes you the least educated here.

        • Going to live in France is not the same as getting citizenship. Are you really that much of a Dotard.

        • This dotard can go and do things a wash out like you can’t even begin to do. I am free to come and go about europe at a whim. Apparently you’re not welcome there.

          Face it. You’re a massive failure in life, dacian the nazi. It’s why you embrace fascism.

        • jwm

          I have been to Europe Jehthro w. m. so stuff it where the sun does not shine. And we Liberals are now in control so enjoy the ride. I am enjoying every minute of the Biden Administration.

        • Enjoy the ride. Watch the economy tank and all the little people get hurt while your billionaire corporate masters get richer. Watch as joe xiden and kameltoe destroy the democratic party.

          You would have to have an education to understand what is coming. You don’t. You still think liberal is a thing. The left was bought by billionaires.

          You’re nothing but a fascist stormtrooper and too low iq to know it.

          And, no, you’ve never been out of the states or you would realize that the socialist utopia of europe is a fiction.

        • I’m sorry, jwm, I hadn’t realized that “volumes” was a synonym for “large, steaming piles of crap”. Thanks for the heads up!

        • “We’re in control.” In control of WHAT, exactly???? Can’t get “Build Back Bolshevik” passed. Can’t control COVID. Can’t control inflation. Butt-raped our energy policy and independence. Can’t get the filibuster overturned. Can’t get your stupid “federalize all of our elections” bill passed. Border policy is a disaster. Crime is through the roof. What, EXACTLY, are you Leftist/fascist dipshit supposedly in control OF, dacian the stupid. Oh, and by the way, y’all are going to get the pluperfect s*** kicked out of you in 2022.

          You are apparently like your “hero” Gropey Joe Biden, the senile man (who was stupid BEFORE he was senile) – you can’t even control your own bowel movements.

        • dacian, you claim that you have been to Europe. Please go back. Don’t come back here. You now try to pass yourself off as a “liberal” when in fact you have admitted on this blog that you are a socialist. Here is a RED HOT NEWS FLASH for you. The only “liberals” were the Founding Fathers, and they would be turning over in the graves to hear you to be claiming to be one of them.

        • dacian, You would be so much happier if you lived in France or Germany, where your Lefty agenda is the order of the day.

      • to Mark N

        To deny the fact that criminals are not shipping in guns to California is a bold face lie. And California citizens openly brag they go across the border to to neighboring U.S. States to flout California’s gun and ammo restrictions. And do you think criminals are not doing the same. Get real.

        And when I made statements of people dying from lack of health care and affordable drugs it was not attacking California per se but a critique of the U.S. and yes people do die from lack of affordable drugs and preventable health care that is a known fact even the Europeans are aware of.

        Some time ago the News Media were showing bus loads of Americans going into Mexico to buy Insulin because they could not afford the outrageous prices being charged in Capitalvania as compared to the prices in Mexico and the same has happened with Americans going to Canada for cheaper prices on drugs.

        • And by the way Mark you had better read up on your California gun laws as you are required to use trigger locks on guns left lying around the house. That was for child safety.

          According to the California Attorney General, the safest way to store a gun is with a state-approved firearm safety device and by keeping the weapon in a locked container. … These penalties increase if the child/adult does access the gun and causes injury or death.

        • Guns crossing state lines have been a complaint of you Lefties for some time. The fact is that we do have this thing we call the 2nd Amendment. You claim that your “universal background checks” will stop this? How? If a criminal wants a gun they will not bother with going through a “universal background check”. They will just by it on the black market. Your so called “child gun safety laws” are ludcrious. The number of children killed when they have gotten access to a firearm is miniscule. You anti-gun radicals are trying desperately to restrict firearms in the home which are used for self protection. In fact you don’t believe in self defense, do you?

      • And the FSC is not a permit. It is a dead simple basic competency test. Things like ‘if you dont know ifn yer gun be loaded, is it safe to look down the barrel and try to see the bullet’.. really, if someone can’t ace this thing, they shouldn’t be allowed to walk around in public, let alone own a gun. Of course, there is a fee involved, so barrier to ownership right there.

        • Of course there is a fee involved. If the State wants to screw you over, YOU have to pay for the privilege.

    • Same screed still getting blown out by observed reality. Need a new script from your reddit/discord/handlers there little guy

    • I recently moved out of the Chicago area where they use the same excuse about guns coming in from neighboring states as being the cause of their high levels of crime. They can never explain why those neighboring states which are supposedly providing the guns don’t have the same problems Illinois does. The fact is that Illinois and California are failed states run by democrats whose policies have led to high crime as well as a slew of other problems.

      • to TJ

        Ohio supplies a lot of guns to Chicago and it is a rabid Red State when it comes to gun laws which means we have none, and yes we had mass murders as happened in Dayton ,Ohio just hours after a mass murder in Texas.

        • PA has afew restrictive gun laws…but nothing compared to surrounding states except Ohio which is much less restrictive and West Virginia which already has constitutional carry…most crime in Ohio is restricted to the large urban areas with large black populations…generally a very safe state to travel in…

        • as Richard Pryor once said…if you find yourself on a street named MLK blvd…[Youngstown]…what should you do?…..RUN!…..

        • “The reason they have not worked as well as they could have is that guns are funneled into California from States that have lax gun laws”

          And Chicago has Ohio and Indiana. States like California and Illinois have other states next to them. Wow. And their legislatures knew this prior to enacting their gun control laws. But it is a convenient excuse isn’t it? Western Europe blames their gun crime on Eastern Europe. Canada blames America. It is almost as if the entire world would need strict gun control laws and 100 percent enforcement for gun control to work. And even if it did you have home gunsmithing and 3D printing. But California has a law against “zip guns” too . . . and it is not working! 3D printed firearms are showing up all over California. Face it; gun control failed. The people have been voting year after year with their wallets and hands. Gun Control is going the way of the Volstead Act.

    • If more people left the state than came here, the housing should be a little more available. This is not true. This is because of illegal aliens and adult children moving out of parents’ homes. The data seems to refute this, so you tell me. Homes are not being bulldozed – as a matter of fact, multifamily homes are on the rise.

    • …”Lax” is a subjective term….in most places it would just be normal operating procedure…states pass whatever laws their citizens deem necessary…and are not subject to the whims of neighboring states…which is as it should be….

    • believe it or not that state wasn’t always like that…failed policies have now made it so…and Nevada…[where some of my family has fled to]… is far from a hillbilly state…..

    • Dacian says “the Denisovan’s of the Far Right who claim California’s laws are failures. ”

      So, you’re a fekkin’ RACISSSS! You think Denisovans are to be looked down upon, because they ain’t smart? Or you thin Denisovan are to be looked down upon because they are more conservative? You fekkin’ RACISSS!

      Which people of Denisovan descent do you have in mind, specifically? Aleuts? Eskimos? Siberians? Pacific Islanders? Maybe the aborigines in ‘Straya? There’s even some Denisovan descendants in South America. Not so much in Europe, or most of Africa. The research hasn’t really been done, but I kinda suspect some Denisovan lineage in some of North American tribes.

      In your mind, Denisovans and conservatives are all alike, wrong-minded, stupid, and unworthy of the vote?

    • dacian, I see you are at it again. Spreading more manure than a cow in the field. It seems that the real problem is that California does not permit its law abiding citizens to possess a firearm without jumping through hoops.
      You have claimed that there are not thousands of self defense uses of firearms when in fat there are many thousands. They are published in new papers across the country every day. And the funny thing is that the articles all point out that the citizen who was exercising self defense was not prosecuted.
      If California’s laws are in effect to prevent “nut cases” from getting guns, how come the crimes involving the use of a gun, illegally obtained is sky rocketing. And please don’t give us that crapola that the illegal guns are imported from other states. If California citizens were allowed to have a loaded firearm in their possession, crime rates would drop like a rock to the bottom of the ocean.

      As to your statement that
      quote————the state suffered a net loss in population of 0.71, and a loss of 0.71 is projected for 2022.————quote

      Seems like a contradictory statement by the Far Right Racists who Claim that California now has millions of illegal immigrants.

      There you go using your race card again. It seems that is the contention that Kalifornia had a new loss is backed up by the US Census Bureau. Are you claiming that the Census Bureau is racist? Get a grip, little fella, your own words are contradicting your favorite solution to all problems, the government.

    • darcydodo…You’ve ran out of fingers to point long ago. You should have saved one finger to point at yourself. You know…in the direction of your very own utter stupidity.

    • dacian the stupid, again touting his beloved gun laws that . . . have proven completely ineffective, as this article, as well as the murder rates in PA, NY, NJ and IL, amply demonstrate.

      Hey, dacian the stupid, if strict gun laws prevent “the wrong people” from getting guns, please explain the murder rate in Mexico, you pathetic, lying moron.

      • And if, as you stupidly allege, passing stricter gun laws in other states, such as Indiana, will cure Illinois’ ridiculous gun crime problem, why wouldn’t people just acquire one of the estimatedd 450-600 million guns already present in the U.S. You planning to go collect all those guns yourself, dacian??? I’d actually enjoy that.

  3. Well, eating meat is an encounter with violence.
    Seems like a goal of sheltering people from all violence would be a pretty disrupting thing to the human condition and backfire terribly.

    Have t these people seen Demolition Man?

  4. Well my reseach concludes that there is far to much research grant money floating around.
    Prompting people to come up with meaningless studies to grab some of them fat checks for no real work.

  5. Residents and Businesses leaving California are not fleeing crime. Sorry, it just is not the case. What they are fleeing are high taxes, ridiculous cost of real property, and onerous over regulation. The middle class just can’t make a living on the margin.

    Second, it is not true that “most” counties are “no issue.” Rather, the reverse is true. No issue is, with the exception of Sacramento, an urban phenomenon, which includes the Bay Area and the LA urban sprawl and for some unknown reason Imperial county. The majority of the 58 counties are issue with minimal good cause, or virtual shall issue. Most of the northern counties and the central valley accept “self defense” as good cause. The only down side is the need to pay for an 8 hour class and the filing fees, which all in are roughly $300 for a first time issuance, half that for renewals.

    The Firearms Safety Certificate costs $25, is good for two years, and requires passing a multiple choice 35 question test on firearms safety and a few of the special laws pertaining to storage of guns to prevent access by minors. Read the pamphlet and a passing is a virtual no brainer. More of a PIA than anything.

  6. Sidewalk Memorials? I’ve been to the Vietnam War Memorial and Arlington Nation Cemetery, does this mean I’m affected by war time violence? Should I apply for VA benefits then?

    • Names are technically words and words are violence, so… I guess you need to live your truth and find your best self.

      Or something.

    • one place will stun you with its impact….the other awe you with its dignified silence amid a sea of tombstones…both worth seeing…the Korean War memorial isn’t bad either…ghosly, lifelike figures of an army patrol emerging from the mist….each with a facial expression that says it’s going to hit the fan at any minute….

  7. Study executed by people who believe women can have a swinging urethra and that men can get pregnant.

    Garbage Leftist study.
    Just like all Leftists “studies”.


  8. All the studies and surveys prove is what many of the pro gun folks have said for decades.
    That criminals don’t obey the laws, and if the populace is disarmed the only people with weapons will be the criminals and the government. Leaving the citizens caught in the crossfire.
    Most of the very people who need access to firearms for self defense are in the working, poor and lower middle classes. The same people priced out of the market with the expense of a permit, classes and taxes/fees. But, the usual claim is somehow another law, or more restrictions will somehow force the criminals to put down their weapons and play nice.
    And, there is the usual whine about private sales, ghost guns, or firearms being brought in from other parts of the country. And again, those who would commit violent crimes, will find whatever weapons, but whatever means they can. Along with those who become frightened enough or angry enough to defy the laws and regulations to arm themselves in the attempt to protect themselves from the criminals or overbearing government agencies.

  9. when ghost gun kits are bought up in large quantities you can assume the buyer has nefarious intent…it is starting to become a problem in some places as gun trafficers are taking advantage of this….

    • Let’s think about that for a moment.

      Yes, ‘ghost guns’ (a thing that does not exist, but we’ll use that term for the sake of argument) in kit form, as opposed to one with an altered or obliterated serial number, may be being bought in large quantities by those with nefarious intent. So what? A criminal intent upon obtaining a better tool with which to make money can steal, buy, or borrow a real, factory-built firearm with minimal difficulty out of the 400 million extant in this country alone. A ‘ghost gun’ is no more, or no less, unlawful for a convicted felon to possess than is a factory-built gun. The penalties are the same: “Ghost Gun = Factory Gun.” Yes, said felon who buys a kit and then assembles and finishes it is instantly a ‘felon in possession’ just as if he possessed a ‘factory’ gun.’ A violent criminal with one type of gun is no better or worse than one with the other–they’re both bad.
      Before there were ‘ghost gun kits,’ criminals managed to possess firearms. If ‘ghost gun kits’ were to disappear overnight, criminals would still manage to possess firearms.
      So long as there are sections of pipe, nails, and electrical tape, criminals will be able to build their own guns. As to ‘kits,’ that genie is well and truly out of its bottle, and is not going to go back in. Their very existence is just another message to Officialdom: “You can’t stop the signal.”
      Relax. The sky is not falling.

      • “Ghost Guns” are a problem for the majority of the public aware of them because “ghost guns” cannot be traced to the perp, if the perp loses the “ghost gun”, or throws it away. Meaning “ghost guns” permit criminals to get away with more crime without being at risk of eventual detection and arrest. We can’t have that. The entertainment has shown/proven that guns can be traced to criminals, and result in arrest and jail time. “Ghost guns” just make us more unsaferer.

  10. The criteria in this survey struck me as odd. Only gun violence counts? Or memorials? Or suicides?

    Why not a more rational set of criteria; such as being, knowing a victim of, or being in the vicinity of person on person violence requiring either medical and/or police intervention? After all, someone killed with a knife, or a club, or being punched or kicked is just as dead as someone who’s been shot. And someone hospitalized by such incidents also suffers from that violence.

    I can see memorials and sounds in an area where a person lives indicating some level of risk, but that’s not exactly a direct experience of a violent incident. And it can be an interesting addition to a survey to count them as such. But they can’t reasonably lump them into the same category.

    And suicide ain’t exactly what I would call being threatened by someone else! (Unless your name happens to be Epstein.)

    (BTW, who’s this dacian clown I keep seeing responses to? I’ve been skipping such posts since shortly after they started. My time is too valuable.)

    • Good catch, EWT. It was a survey DESIGNED (like every fake survey dacian the stupid cites, if he ever bothers), to yield a specific result. One of the things we learned in my basic statistics class, and got a real eyeful in my later Statistics and Polling class, was that a “surveyor” can literally dictate the results of their polling. Sample size, sample choice, framing of questions, heck, we even did surveys as projects for the class where the sex and age of the person taking the poll, and the tone of their voice as they asked questions, influenced the outcome of the poll well beyond the “margin of error”.

      Polls CAN be valuable insights into public opinion . . . but they haven’t been, for years. All they do now is reinforce confirmation bias and highlight Dunning-Krueger in nitwits like dacian the stupid.

  11. With any survey, one cannot know the truth. The only thing captured is what people “said”, not what is verifiably true. Trying to develop a survey that can actually get “the truth” is an exercise in frustration….because you can only capture the response.

    The election results in 2015 had many of the MSM commeters convinced the election results were invalid is because the exit polls heavily favored Clinton.

    Don’t misconstrue the purported results. The phrase “gun control isn’t working” is akin to “presidential approval poll” showing “disapproval”. In the case of the presidential polling, “disapproval” can result from some respondents thinking the president has gone too far, and some declaring the president isn’t going far enough. Thus poll results showing “gun control doesn’t work” means “failure to make safe” when viewed by 2A defenders, while to gun grabbers it means the gun control laws don’t go far enough, are too few to gain the desired results.

    All the above notwithstanding, it is a glorious moment when the leftists get their golden chalice shoved up their noses.

  12. If you people have time to sit around and answer polls, well you have too much time on your hands and arn’t working hard enough. Same kind of people who play video games and accomplish nothing. Get a hobby, you know, where you actually do something, build something or better yourself. Beats sitting around bitching about your problems. Maybe someone at U.C. Davis could study that!

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