This Week in Gun Rights is TTAG’s weekly roundup of legal, legislative and other news affecting guns, the gun business and gun owners’ rights.
A Slew of Forced Reset Triggers Hit Market
Many of us watched in agony as ATF again came after a popular product designed specifically to comply with the letter of the law: the Rare Breed FRT trigger. It’s a trigger that slaps forward after every shot, hence a “forced reset.”
The forced reset provides for an exceptionally fast follow-up shot, meaning people could fire their weapons in a more spirited way, as you’ve no doubt seen in videos.
Never allowing the letter of the law to get in its way, ATF issued Rare Breed Triggers a cease and desist order, to which Rare Breed responded with a lawsuit, seeking to prevent the agency from making good on its threats.
In the intervening time, we’ve seen two similar devices show up on the market: the WOT and the Graves V2 ART. This has spurred some drama as people online have pointed fingers as to who is allegedly copying who, and what patent covers what. I’m more interested, however, in how this might affect attempts to clamp down on this technology.
As I explained in a video on the subject, this type of trigger is undoubtedly designed to strictly comply with the letter of the law. It is very easy for eager government agencies to bully smaller firms into doing what the agency wants. But multiple, larger firms pose a bit of a problem for the regulator, especially if the companies are down to fight it out.
I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but the timing here is fascinating. ATF set its sights on Rare Breed, then we saw two more triggers using similar technology emerge rapidly and aggressively, one of which from a known deep-pocketed source.
While quietly beating one firm into submission is something federal agencies do all the time, it seems ATF might be looking at another fight of bump-stock proportions, requiring much more aggressive, concerted action.
Not to say the bump stock situation was handled with a spoonful of grace. To be sure, it was a nightmarish miscarriage of justice. One I’m weary to see a repeat of. That said, this may present a very interesting opportunity to fix some of those mistakes. Either way, these products are certainly ones to keep an eye on.
Government Scrubs Afghan Weapon Reports from Federal Websites
A recent Forbes article explores the fact that the Biden administration recently directed agencies to scrub their official websites of all the reports that detailed the roughly $80 billion in arms and equipment provided to Afghanistan’s security forces since 2001.
It might not seem immediately apparent what relationship this has to our space, but it’s instructive on the relationship federal agencies have with Americans.
We’ve come to expect the government to try to keep secrets, but this attempted revisionism highlights issues with both transparency, and any ability to learn from its mistakes.
A whole host of federal agencies have made an even wider range of errors adversely affecting the rights of Americans. The quickness here to try to cover its tracks, and in such a prominent fashion, doesn’t inspire confidence.
Police1: Gun Violence is a ‘Public Health’ Problem, Target Ghost Guns
In a recent paper published at Police1 by Jason Potts, the California cops pushes the “gun violence is a public health problem” lie. Hard. As the article’s title suggests, Potts believes “police should treat gun homicide like doctors treat bloodborne pathogens.”
The thrust of the article is encouraging the use of social media and other tools to target pre-crime and focus on “those 20%” of Americans who commit “80% of the crime.”
Mixed in with this are various intersectional attacks on home gunmaking, non-sequiturs to vaccinations, and more. The paper isn’t completely without rational thought, but the conclusions are concerning and generally unsupported.
I always take issue with the “public health” narrative that’s told all too frequently in American politics. You’ve likely noticed the tendency of the gun control industry to use frequent appeals to the authority of medical doctors to support their arguments despite guns being a matter of policy, not a descriptive science like medicine.
The lie here is in the fact that gun control can’t be equated with public health concerns, such as cholera or bloodborne pathogens. The key distinction is that no one grew up saying ‘We had cholera when I grew up on the farm. My daddy taught me to contract cholera, and we all had a great time doing it.’
Public health studies things like pathogens (or should). Things that are issues of public health. The entire field of study stems from tracing poison wells in the early common law era. These are noxious things, things which have no independent positive utility.
Guns, on the other hand, have a host of positive uses. Hence why we buy them so often. And the repeated attempts to claim firearm-related crime as a “public health” issue is evidence that those who make that argument are out of other ideas.
The 3D Printed Gun Safety Act of 2021
Two foamheads, including Ted Deutsch of Florida, have put forth S.2319, which “makes it unlawful to intentionally publish digital instructions for programming a three-dimensional printer to make a firearm.”
The law is a joke without a punchline, and is clearly not intended to actually pass. Especially given the fact that its text consists of 10 hyper-political “findings” and only one sentence of proposed law. Which, of course, is purported to be inserted into a code section that has absolutely nothing to do with instructions of publication.
This law isn’t worth much of your attention, as it would be uniquely unenforceable as-written. Its primary utility is as a piece of evidence for pointing out the cynical insincerity of its authors.
George W.’s Speechwriter: Convince Gun Owners Handguns Are Dangerous
George W. Bush’s old speechwriter has penned an article explaining that the way to reduce gun violence is by convincing ordinary, “responsible” handgun owners that their weapons make them, their families, and those around them less safe.
His intent is no mystery, as he himself pointed out that his object is to use reasonable sounding soundbites to convince fence-sitting gun owners to hop onto the side of prohibition. As he puts: “In virtually every way that can be measured, owning a firearm makes the owner, the owner’s family, and the people around them less safe. The hard-core gun owner will never accept this truth. But the 36 percent in the middle—they may be open to it, if they can be helped to perceive it.”
This is the type of fellow behind “bi-partisan” gun control. The issue is, he makes some sense. Not in his policy, but in his tactics. The hardcore sides are not realistically up for grabs. Not on the pro- or anti-gun side. But that lukewarm nougat center certainly is. That’s why gun owners need to be super welcoming and friendly to new gun owners, or old dogs like this may beat us to it.
“In virtually every way that can be measured, owning a swimming pool makes the owner, the owner’s family, and the people around them less safe. The hard-core swimmer will never accept this truth. But the 36 percent in the middle—they may be open to it, if they can be helped to perceive it.”
“In virtually every way that can be measured, owning a staircase makes the owner, the owner’s family, and the people around them less safe. The hard-core stair-stepper will never accept this truth. But the 36 percent in the middle—they may be open to it, if they can be helped to perceive it.”
“In virtually every way that can be measured, owning an automobile makes the owner, the owner’s family, and the people around them less safe. The hard-core automobile driver will never accept this truth. But the 36 percent in the middle—they may be open to it, if they can be helped to perceive it.”
Bla bla bla….. the hard-core alcoholic… oh wait… scratch that.
Re Rarebreed…just what I need! Shoot twice the ammo in half the time. I did stock up before ammogeddon. Sure miss that cheap 223/556! Bought some cheap(er)aluminum 9mm from Cabelas. Got a cheap Tasco red dot from WallyWorld after my TruGlo flew apart after firing a mere 500 rounds. They claim to have a “lifetime” guarantee.
That’s why all of what I call ‘my combat weapons’ have nothing but iron sights.
No batteries, no lights, nothing hanging from my handgaurds.
Everything breaks.
Broken a lot of gear in combat recently, have you???? Keyboard commandoing doesn’t count.
Do not forget or ignore the public health risk of butter and steak knives, salad and dinner forks, teaspoons and soupspoons. Especially the higher capacity spoons when coupled with such high rate of caloric ingestion substances as ice cream, gelato, Jello Pudding, cookie dough, and similar threats to the public health.
Most dangerous is the proliferation of Ghost Ice-Cream. These home-use ice-cream making machines enable deadly abuse of milk fats and sugar. All without the oversight of local, state or federal health authorities.
Watch……
Nicely said! Creative!
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Don’t forget the guy in Chicago who was stabbed in the heart by his brother with a serving fork at the Thanksgiving dinner table while arguing over the last turkey leg.
Nobody needs that much water.
The rhinos are showing themselves now. Guess we know why we’ve only been losing rights now.
I have an idea for you guys.
The law says:
Any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
Well. Why not have more than one trigger? Having more than one trigger is not a “single function.” It is multiple functions.
Have the trigger in the usual place. Then have another trigger in the handguard area. Pull the rear trigger and you get semi-auto fire. Pull and hold the trigger on the handguard, and simultaneously pulling the trigger in the rear, and full auto. This is not a machine gun, by the letter of the law, because you have to pull two triggers to get full auto. You can add another trigger near the handguard for 3rd burst. All legal.
Next we’ll have a sicko lily white wannabe doctor CA cop wanting to remove the trigger finger of every newborn Black Baby in LA.
Like I said and some of the pencildicks on this forum don’t like it hearing it…Gun Control in any shape or form is rooted in racism and genocide. Includes pervert cops and pervert criminals who can do Whatever they want to those who are unarmed…Exactly like their Gun Control predessors the KKK and nazi brown shirts.
Impeach and remove Jim Crow Gun Control joe biden.
As great as that sounds look what we’re left with.
Doesn’t matter, you have to start somewhere….
David Frum was an illegal alien who over stayed his visa. While he attacked the American Bill Of Rights, and the American citizens who defended it.
I can’t imagine there are any “fence-sitting gun owners” left. The last one around here was some 95yo Fudd veteran who used to write “weapons of war” screeds in the local paper. His next will need to be dictated through Ouja.
Every gun owners I meet now is either a single issue voter or a Democrat that plans to ignore any potential legislation aka “criminal” but I repeat myself.
The “gun community” has a problem with law abiding citizens (poor people) owning “rapid fire” weapons. And the government has no problem pointing real machine guns at law abiding folks using their 1st amendment rights.
A Real machine gun: $45,000.
An AR15 $1,500+$600 trigger or a $175 bumpstock = a cheap reliable rapid fire weapon.
“Ken Cuccinelli Claims Pelosi Asked For ‘Crew-Manned Machine Guns’ In Washington”
https://dailycaller.com/2021/01/19/ken-cuccinelli-nancy-pelosi-crew-manned-machine-guns/
$1500 Rifle? $600 Trigger? $179 bumpstock? I got mine for $99. Where’d ya get those prices? Your going upscale eh?
Now, Everything Has gone beyond upscale! I have been in the Business of trying to fix,, Just one Firearm. I should be in the Business of Makeing parts to Fix other people’s firearms. Or Modify them to Sell for Insane profits. More than Just Covid has become a highly contageous , “Virus”.These folks may very well be dishing out those prices for Anything concerning firearms in these times.
I can go along with the idea that 80% of the crime is committed by 20% of the population. (Actually, I think the distribution is even more lopsided than that.) One hundred years ago, we had a similar problem on a smaller scale. A servant, now called Typhoid Mary, was found to infect her employers with typhoid fever. The public health remedy, which was all that could be done with the medical technology of the day, was to lock her away for life. Instead of doing that with the 20% (or whatever) who are violent criminals, “woke” political leaders make excuses for them and leave them free to continue their depredations.
How you define “crime” is important- “show me the man and I’ll show you the crime.” But I’ll bet only 3% to 5% tops are responsible for crimes against people, as compared with malum prohibitum crimes.
Perhaps we need to paint rainbows on all american police cars. This way the police will overnight become defenders of Liberty. Just like making all drugs legal will overnight eliminate all crime.
“Rainbow Policing” video 24 min long
To enforce more regulations, the ATF will ask for a larger budget. The primary purpose of any beauracracy is to preserve and expand its power. The mission is only an excuse.
When I am president, I am going to issue an executive order: for every new or revised regulation, an agency must eliminate two.
For every executive order, ten must be eliminated.
For every new beaureaucrat hired, two must be fired or retired.
For every new law, ten Congress-critters will receive life in prison without the possibility of parole.
When I am president….
Come to California. They passed a law that for every new gun added to the Roster of Not Unsafe Handguns, three had to be eliminated from the Roster. (This law also made it theoretically easier to comply with the microstamping law by requiring only one stamp instead of two, which is all that the existing experimental machine can accomplish.)
At the infamous Las Vegas massacre Steven Paddock used a bump stock to murder 60 people and serious wound 400 people. It took a couple of seconds with a bump stock that converted a semi-auto into a quasi machine gun.
Using a FTR trigger or its two competitors Paddock would have accomplished the same mass murder in the same amount of time or even if he had used a real machine gun. No difference in practicality.
So the ATF is correct. It banned Bump Stocks as quasi-machine guns and has banned the FTR because there is no difference between them in actual use. Doubt my word then watch the video of an FTR rifle and a real machine gun. Tell me the practical difference in immediate mass destruction. Answer is of course that there is none.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDQEdQLxBn8
And remember the ATF follows no rules of law as they make the laws up as they go alone. They have the power and they use it. And in this case its good they have the right to make up the laws as they go alone. The public is a lot safer from nut cases who in Capitalvania can buy all the second hand weapons of mass destruction they want because second hand guns in most states are not vetted. Giving the nut cases FTR triggers is the last thing on earth any sane person wants to happen.
Be honest for once in your life. How much chance would you have when out shopping with the family with your concealed handgun if a nut case opened up on you and your family with an AR 15 equipped with an FTR trigger. Answer, you would be dead meat.
Had the moron in Vegas used well aimed fire and trigger discipline he could have had a higher body count.
If you had any real experience with firearms you would know rapid indiscriminate fire is less effective than well aimed fire.
Look paratrooper do not bull shit me. I have plenty of damn experience with weapons and Paddock knew damn well he had no time for carefully aimed fire. He knew he had to fire as quickly as possible before people started to take cover and or run and in doing so spread out and to kill them before that happened he needed to fire as rapidly as possible into a large crowd very densely packed of people. He knew he did not need careful aim when firing into a crowd of people packed together densely. He accomplished that grisly maniacal mission by not taking carefully aimed fire simply because the time was not available to him period. The amount of people killed (60 killed and 400 seriously wounded) certainly proved he made the right move by using rapid fire.
Your statement sure proved to me on thing today and that is you certainly were never a “real paratrooper” that was under mass attack, rather you were and are an armchair commando.
In WWII Kalashnikov was appalled by the “lack of firepower the Russians had compared to what the Germans had and he stated “That is why I knew I had to develop a rapid fire weapon for my fellow comrades”. I suppose you are now telling us you know more than what he learned under fire on the Russian Front in WWII.
Russian intelligence reports in WWII told of Russian soldiers not firing their weapons when they had bolt action rifles and even semi-auto rifles but when given full auto weapons they did indeed fire them and that led to the Russians then issuing as many full auto weapons as they could to the troops.
The Germans made much the same statement that Kalashnikov made and when Hitler tested the STG 44 he was told the German troops were all screaming for more of them and they sure as hell did not use them much in semi-auto fire because they already had semi-auto rifles which were even more powerful but not wanted as much as the STG-44 because of its full auto capability.
Your lack of tactical knowledge is evident. What you have read in history books or found on the internet is not a substitute for real training or actual experience.
I could discuss Ballistic advantage, but you would have to look it up and still not understand the application. And the tactics used in WWII are much different than today.
Your friends body count was high, but it could have been higher had he been properly trained and motivated. Fortunately he was a lot like you, the epitome of tactical ignorance.
No one believes you have experience or basic knowledge on the things you are talking about Dacian. It’s not believable lol
To the wanabe Paratrooper
quote—————-Fortunately he was a lot like you, the epitome of tactical ignorance.————quote
Trying to aim during a night concert would not have been effective and again he would have run out of time. Remember he was 400 yards away. A real paratrooper would have known how much more difficult it is to make precision shots at night and he was not using infrared or a starlight scope either.
You did not even bother to study anything about this tragedy but you like to pontificate about something you knew nothing about.
quote————Your friends body count was high———–quote
You have made some very outrageous statements on this forum but this one is really demented. Seek counseling.
Sorry try again your still making yourself look like a complete fool.
Dacian, I know you’ve probably heard this before, but its true: you talk too much. Diarrhea of the mouth. None of your words have any meaning, because there are too many of them. You should cross out 9 out of 10 words you write. You could (someday) actually write something valuable and worthwhile, and no one would notice.
Never said precision aiming. I said well aimed. There is a big difference. ⅚
The only fool is you and your mastery of cut and paste, strawmen and changing the context if others arguments to suit yours.
I feel you are unhinged calling people racists, Nazi and the rest. That is a weak mind at play. You don’t like when people stoop to your level when it shows your weakness. That is why I called you a friend of the moron. Think about it, you spew hatred all over the place and respond poorly when it is returned.
No one ever proved he used a bumpstock. So that is BS. AAMOF, A list of the guns found by the ATF/FBI in his room were never revealed to the public that I recall. You are forgetting that criminals never obey laws. Not even the gun laws…in case you didn’t know…. it’s one of the things that makes them criminals. Criminals ignore and break any/all laws. If a criminal wants a fully auto firearm, they are pretty easy to obtain on the black market. Also they can easily steal one too. Therefore…Your argument for semi auto/rapid fire and fully auto firearms being banned to the law abiding is MOOT. You remind me of a Jethro Tull song…Thick As A Brick.
quote————— you remind me of a Jethro Tull song…Thick As A Brick.————quote
And you remind me of Jethro Bodine from the Beverly Hillbillies sit come of the 60’s. Making such an asinine statement that he did not use a bump stock is really over the top. This was the first thing that law enforcement reported to the news media as to how he killed and wounded so many people in such a short period of time. I remember seeing pictures of some of the rifles he used when watching the news reports later in time when it showed the rifles with bump stocks on them.
And the people who were under fire all spoke about the rapid fire that came down on them and many even thought he had a crew served machine gun.
Even the band who were armed with pistols stated the firepower was so heavy they had no chance of even contemplating return fire with pistols. That sure as hell did not happen with a weapon firing on semi-auto.
Sober up next time it will prevent you from making a total fool of yourself.
This is even dumber than the stuff Chris posts. You have no experience with guns and it shows. Aimed fire would of been far more effective. In fact a pipe bomb would of been even more effective, pretty easy to drop with a drone. We don’t limit freedoms because some people abuse them. This includes owning machine guns bump stocks and so on. Yes freedom is a dangerous place the Founders were well aware of this put they preferred it over tyranny any day and I agree
Dacian cite a source that a bump-stock was used in LV or really just STFU.
I have access to the complete investigation and NOWHERE in the official reports was the use of a bump-stock used.
MSM media and their opinions do not count, a reputable citation from a reputable source would bolster your nonsense claim.
A big part of your problem is you have no idea of what you are writing so you go off on a tangent that has NOTHING to do with your original BS. IOWs you jump from LV to Hitler to WWII to Russians. None of these have ANYTHING to do with what happened in LV.
BTW: I was there, knew people who were at the scene and know about 200 people who live in LV. You spew nonsense, that gets quickly shut down so you rant about something totally unrelated.
You obviously have no knowledge of firearms or tactics so quit acting like you do. Then when that fails you resort to insults and proves what a complete mentally ill attention starved fool you are.
Half of the posts on here are from you about a trigger that you know nothing about. Once again through the magic of the internet you are the “expert” in triggers and automatic fire and yet have probably never touched a gun in your life.
“Occasionally the criminals that founded the U.S. got it right from the beginning that is why they wrote 2A in double talk.”
The other day some person like you tried that tired old BS line in a conversation and were quickly put down. If it’s “double talk” then why is every democrat president the best gun salesman ever. Clinton was outdone by Obama, Obama was blown out of the water by Biden.
Thanks Joe, the gun lobby couldn’t have done a better job of arming America with the best plan they could come up with.
Biden is almost like having gun give away days instead of buybacks. There is no “double speak” in that fact. “Here’s free money. now go out and but something.” A lot of people bought guns and I do mean a lot. Most of the people are average Joe citizens, I train them on how to shoot their guns.
Biden is better for guns then the NRA.
“And remember the ATF follows no rules of law as they make the laws up as they go alone. They have the power and they use it. And in this case its good they have the right to make up the laws as they go alone.”/em>
What a model of a modern stormtrooper you are! Arbitrary government power uber alles!
As for “…how much chance would you have … if a nut case opened up on you and your family with an AR 15 equipped with an FTR trigger,” here’s a serious answer in two parts:
1. If ambushed, the chances are nil, no matter what weapon the psycho has. Getting ambushed sucks, and the first people at the pointy end of one almost always die.
2. If not ambushed, but for some reason restricted into exchanging fire straight-up with only a handgun, my chances aren’t good. Nothing to do with a tricky trigger, everything to do with the superior accuracy and stopping power of a rifle.
This is why I’d much rather carry a rifle — and I’m actually perfectly willing to do so everywhere I go. Unfortunately, modern “progressive” society makes it virtually impossible for law-abiding folks to carry such effective firearms in daily life, so I’m restricted to inferior firepower, and even that, I still can’t carry half the places I go (at least, not if I truly am law-abiding).
Without even realizing it you just admitted and also proved how correct my post was about banning such devices or at least vetting them like we do used machine guns.
Lets face facts the machine gun restrictions of the 30’s were needed and proved very effective. And so it should also be for any devices that convert semi-auto rifles into full auto guns.
I think banning the sales of newly made full auto weapons altogether by the great gun hating Satan Reagan was unnecessary because of the very thorough vetting of prospective buyers.
“The public is a lot safer from nut cases..”
Not while you roam around..
Seek professional help ASAP.
Dacian:
.
I was thinking about when I was a kid running my trap line with a .22 single shot and still hunting as I went.
I was obscured and observing, as is the nature when still hunting, when I heard a rustling in the dense flora. A few minutes passed and the rustling grew louder, as I stemmed my heartbeat and breathing
in anticipation of what was to come , a mother dog approximately 65-70lbs with three pups emerged from the undergrowth, all of dark brown reddish solid color. I observed their behavior and deduced they were hunting and were not aware of my presence. They mama dog was on they skinny side, however the pups seemed to be doing quit well.
I contemplated the fact about how successful the moma dog was in rearing her pups feral. Most dogs fail here and it’s not good to dump dogs in the country. She was one hell of a dog and a very good mother, a real survivor in the survivors world. I was quite enamored of her accomplishments, watching her hunt, and admiring the dog the longer I watched , to the point of veritable attachment.
I was running all this through my mind when I molasses’ed the gunm up, took steady aim and shot the dog right in the guts.
It worked just as I’d planned.
They were not needed and were not effective. The second the tyrants realized the fight wasn’t worth it, they legalized alcohol and the criminals stopped machine gunning law enforcement. What stopped the violence was tyrants stopped being tyrants. I would suggest you learn the same lesson before you end up the same way they did.
Clearly you didn’t understand what I wrote. (Busted italics tags may have had something to do with it…or maybe you’re just a cognitively impaired leftwit.)
No you did understand what you wrote. Your own reading comprehension proved it.
dacian your a moron you keep saying to vetted the gun, its an inanimate object with no will of its own. Phsycos like you need the vetting
“Be honest for once in your life.”
You first: No law will ever prevent mass shootings. No law. Ever. Not here, not in Norway, not in New Zealand, not even in England.
The problem is people like you, who say “we just need one more law” out of one side of your mouth, and “criminal justice reform” out of the other, while committing actual crimes and then blaming inanimate objects for them.
Bingo. Top level refutation.
Public health studies things like pathogens (or should). And pathological liars as well as psychotics who kill people without remorse.
All these forced reset trigger suppliers are missing 2 important features
1) Providing a method to selectively enabling their feature
2) A method to buy it using cash
Taccon owns the patent for the 3 position on a forced reset trigger. At least that is what I have read. They also appear to be out of business, having show a 3MR had they followed through with the full reset pretty sure they would be more popular now.
Rubber bands, Shoe strings. Belt loops. Self loading rifles.
Ones gotta go.
Bang bang theBiden says shotgunm is what we get , be happy. stfu. AMERICA, LAND OF THE FEARLESS.
I’d kick they’re asses cept that’d make me a felon, then It’d be against the law to have a gunm. Can’t have that.
I think what bothers them most about the Forced Reset Triggers is the “cosmetics” (how it looks to be functioning vs how its actually functioning). The ATF, and Biden, and anti-gun groups/people seem to focus a lot on gun “cosmetics” especially lately – if its black its a scary ‘weapon of war assault rifle’, if its got a grip its a scary ‘weapon of war assault rifle’, if its got a telescoping stock its a scary ‘weapon of war assault rifle’, if its got a magazine that holds more than one or two, or five, or holds 10, 20, or 30 rounds its a scary ‘weapon of war assault rifle’ etc… so now its if it can be fired quickly its a scary ‘machine gun’ (‘weapon of war’). Too many “definitive’ misleading and false ‘descriptions’ from the anti-gun side, and not a one of them can actually define that the MSR is actually a scary ‘weapon of war assault rifle’.
Heck, in his testimony Chipman could not even define what an assault rifle is when he was asked to define it. Even the Gifford group and Biden shy away from trying to “definitively” define what an assault rifle is (in terms of the MSR) yet they all scream, along with all anti-gun/anti-second-amendment people, about wanting to ban something they refuse to “definitively” define in terms of civilian arms (the MSR).
Appearance and perception is everything to anti-gun people – if someone gets shot in DGU the anti gun people scream “ban guns!”, it scares them that someone would have the power to definitively protect their family and self.
It scares them for a couple of different reasons. One, because deep down and in their heart these anti-gunners are afraid and lack the confidence needed to definitively protect their family and self when that moment comes, and two, it scares them because they are afraid of being dominated by a power they do not understand because they lack the skills and confidence and will power needed to understand it. So they don’t bother to understand it, and remain in their comfort zone of appearance and perception.
When you look at the FRT in action you see some very rapid firing going on, more rapid than what a non-FRT rifle would be capable of. But in reality the FRT is functioning just like a ‘normal semi-auto trigger’ would be as defined under law.
quote—————But in reality the FRT is functioning just like a ‘normal semi-auto trigger’ would be as defined under law.————–quote
There is the LAW AND THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW. Violating the spirit of the law is just as dishonest as deliberately violating the law as written. Full auto weapons are outlawed without registration and newly made full auto weapons are outlawed all together therefore making the FTR illegal on two counts.
The FTR is an end run around the spirit of the law and the ATF new it and banned it as they should have banned it. The ATF was correct on this decision. When a semi-auto weapon is suddenly turned in to a quasi machine gun “it is a machine gun” period and just as deadly and just as desirable for the ever growing crowd of psycho’s committing mass murder and right wing fanatics hell bent on taking over the government by force as they tried to do on Jan. 6th. The last thing we need in this country is armies of right wing thugs and hillbillies terrorizing the population and trying to overthrow the government, shooting up planned parenthood or psycho’s like Paddock committing mass murder with them.
Just do not be foolish enough to think “It will never happen to me” Remember the famous line from the Dirty Harry Movie “Do you fell lucky punk”. He wasn’t and someday neither will you with nut cases running around with FTR converted machine guns.
The spirit of anti-gun laws is a boot stamping on a human face forever. Of course you support that spirit 100%.
No executive branch agency should be enforcing anything so nebulous as “the spirit of the law”. If the law doesn’t adequately capture the “spirit” as written, then it’s the legislature’s job to rewrite it so that it does, not the executive’s prerogative to reinterpret what they think the law should have said, but doesn’t.
The ATF did just that they out lawed them by doing what they do best i.e. they regulated them out of business. Remember our Corrupt Government was set up that way. The new regulation is drawn up at 8:00 A.M. and becomes law at 5:00 P.M. This is nothing new its standard corrupt operating procedure. And the best part is they make an end run around Congress who never gets anything done anyway.
Now the EPA needs to be trained like the ATF and regulate in new Green Technology.
Occasionally the criminals that founded the U.S. got it right from the beginning that is why they wrote 2A in double talk.
Look Dacian. All we need to do is make murder illegal. Then this problem will be solved. Law abiding citizens seem to be following these gun laws, so all we need to do now is have them follow murder laws too. Bingo! Problem solved!
The only thing that matters in court is the text of the law. There was no “spirit” defined in the law. The ATF is not “accusing” a violation of the “spirit” of the law, they are citing specific violations in text of the law.
The “spirit of the law” is the aim or purpose of a law when it was written. The aim and purpose of this law when it was written was to specifically define “machine gun”.
The FRT does not violate the text or the spirit of the law.
The “spirit” of the law argument thing is another anti-gun/anti-second amendment deception.
Except that your rhetoric is not reality as the ATF regulated them out of business. Pie in the sky idealism and Governmental power mean the Government wins every time. That is reality like it or not.
quote————–The ATF is not “accusing” a violation of the “spirit” of the law, they are citing specific violations in text of the law.————quote
And without realizing it you just proved what I have been saying.
And by the way the ATF’s reasoning is sound and legal in my opinion because converting any gun into a machine gun is illegal and that is exactly what an FTR trigger does. What lies the FTR people told the ATF when they said they were going to manufacture this trigger were obviously never admitted to or revealed to the ATF in regards to what the FTR trigger really would do i.e. convert a gun into a machine gun. Do you really think if the FTR people had demonstrated this trigger in front of a head honcho at the ATF he would have ever approved it. No way.
The FRT doesn’t convert a gun into a machine gun.
You don’t even understand your own confused logic.
Let me expand out the accusation for you, you seem to have difficulty understanding it in its condensed form as its presented in articles and media; The ATF is not really saying the FRT makes a gun a machine gun – the ATF is saying that the FRT its self qualifies as a “machine gun” under the law as its written because it can cause a gun to act as a machine gun.
This is a big difference, a difference you apparently missed for your anti-gun “spirit of the law” misleading comments.
Not sure what planet you live on but here on planet earth in the U.S. it is not sound reasoning or legal or the “spirit of the law” that a part which specifically DOES NOT function as the law defines for a “machine gun”, it is not true that such makes a “machine gun” or is a “machine gun”. What the ATF is accusing is like saying buying tires at Walmart makes your Prius a formula one race car.
This is pure misapplication and misrepresentation of the law in both letter and spirit from the ATF. Its based upon nothing at all except appearance of how it looks to function vs how it does actually function.
The law clearly defines the text and spirit of what the law is intended to be, the FRT does not violate this in any way.
I could kind of understand the bump stock thing, in a weird way, if I thought about it really hard because it does seem to circumvent”, in a way, the normal firing action because of its add-on nature. But the FRT is not add-on nature that circumvents, its is a core part that operates exactly as the law allows for a semi-auto trigger but only allows it to be faster.
The FRT is not a “machine gun” nor is it a part which converts a semi-auto rifle into a “machine gun”.
This is Bidens ATF embarking on a combination of “exploratory” tests of the courts trying to get precedents set based on how Biden wants it to be and trying to set the precedent that burdening companies by expensive and time consuming lawsuits no matter how frivolous is a valid tactic for implementing “back door” gun control.
To Robert
quote——————-This is pure misapplication and misrepresentation of the law in both letter and spirit from the ATF. Its based upon nothing at all except appearance of how it looks to function vs how it does actually function.————-quote
I realize that because you are a gun nut you are delusional so lets give you a practical scenario.
Let us suppose this case went to a trial by jury.
1. The ATF man demonstrates by firing a full auto M16.
2. The ATF man then demonstrates firing a semi-auto AR 15
3. The ATF man then takes the AR 15 apart in front of the Jury and installs an FTR trigger and then rips off a 30 round mag.
4. The ATF man then tells the jury “You just saw me convert this gun into a full auto weapon” and this is why we banned the FTR trigger because it makes a semi-auto weapon into a fully automatic weapon. You just saw me do it.
How do you think NORMAL SANE PEOPLE ON THE JURY WOULD VOTE.
to Robert
quote————-I could kind of understand the bump stock thing, in a weird way, if I thought about it really hard because it does seem to circumvent”, in a way, the normal firing action because of its add-on nature————-quote
You know the old saying give a person enough rope and he will hang himself.
Up to this point I thought you were a relatively sane person but without realizing it you just contradicted yourself 100 per cent. If you believe the bump stock violated the law and turned a semi-auto into a machine gun but the FTR did not do the same thing you really are delusional.
Seriously do you not realize what you just posted.
And by the way Trump gave the ATF the order “ban bump stocks”. The ATF previously had been responding they could not legally do it. When Trump gave them the order they did it and guess what they are still banned.
It must be realized the government changes the laws when it wants to. The Corrupt Supreme Court in the 30’s said that only military weapons were covered by 2A and for a nefarious reason, they wanted short barreled shotguns to stay banned even though they were indeed military weapons. To the court it was irrelevant because they “had the power to do as they pleased and did”.
Later the Corrupt Court said Reagan could ban Machine guns because they decided to reverse themselves again to uphold the new Reagan machine gun ban and said then that only sporting guns were legal so the machine gun ban was now legal.
Later in time the Corrupt Court then said not all sporting guns were legal, to bless the new law that banned sporting semi-auto rifles i.e. the so called assault rifles banned by Clinton.
And to further corrupt the whole mess Scalia craftily said the the courts had the right to “regulate” (double talk for ban or restrict) any weapons they chose if they were a danger to the public or government.
As one can readily see 2A is a joke and always has been a joke because 2A a threat to the people in power and the history of the courts prove they hate it with a passion both liberals and conservative justices.
The bump stock ban will remain law as well as the ban on FTR triggers and FTR copy cat triggers, that is realty like it or not and the government could not care less what the law used to say as now it will magically say something else due to “interpretation” (double talk for we can and will lie whenever we deicide to) Except this time there is far more truth to the ATF side of the decision than there is any deliberate deception.
As you say, the ATF previously determined that it could not ban bump stocks. Why? Because semi-automatic rifles remain semi-automatic rifles even with a bump stock. That ATF determination was made during the Obama Administration and President Obama respected the decision even though he wished it had been otherwise.
But then the Führer took over and essentially ordered the ATF to redefine words in the English language. A stock became a machine-gun.
Regardless of your opinion about whether bump stocks should be legal, no law was passed to ban them. That’s unconstitutional by any common sense understanding of how our government is supposed to function. Words must have established definitions if the law is to have any relevance, and demagogues must not be permitted to change definitions arbitrarily.
Dacian. When legislators pass a law, that law is written in words. Words have meaning. So if they literally define what a machine gun is, with words, then if something fits outside of that definition, it is not a machine gun per the letter of the law. The solution is for legislators to change the law, not to invoke “spirit” or some other made up happy feelings shit.
Overturned by the courts on March 26th 2021. Which is probably why he did it.
Bush’s Secret Service should turn in their firearms. Bush (and everyone around him) is obviously “less safe” till they do. C’mon man!