SIG SAUER P365-380
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SIG SAUER is pleased to bring a new caliber to the award winning P365 series of pistols.  The long awaited P365 chambered in 380 is finally here – creating a new, softer shooting experience for an easier handling micro-compact option for everyday carry.

“The SIG SAUER P365 is the most popular concealed carry pistol on the market today. We have shipped millions of these pistols and until now it has only been available in one caliber,” said Tom Taylor, Chief Marketing Officer and Executive Vice President, Commercial Sales, SIG SAUER, Inc. “The P365-380 uses the same grip module and fire control unit as the legacy P365 with a lightened slide, a 380 barrel, and a lighter recoil spring making it easier to rack for an overall exceptionally smooth handling experience. This pistol was designed for everyone but is an ideal option for shooters with smaller hands, as well as those who find the manipulation and recoil management of larger caliber pistols challenging.”

The SIG SAUER P365-380 is a striker fired pistol chambered in 380 with a 10+1 capacity. This micro-compact pistol features a modular polymer grip module, optic-ready stainless-steel slide with Nitron finish, a curved striker trigger, and dovetail SIGLITE night sights. The P365-380 is also available with a manual safety and ships with (2) ten-round magazines.

Caliber: 380 AUTO
Overall length: 5.8 inches
Overall height: 4.2 inches
Overall width: 1.0 inches (1.1 inches w/manual safety)
Barrel length: 3.1 inches
Sight Radius: 4.9 inches
Weight (w/magazine): 15.7 oz.
Price: $499.99


The SIG SAUER P365-380 is now shipping and available at retailers.  To learn more about the P365-380 or watch the product video with Phil Strader, Director, Product Management visit


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  1. “… and until now it has only been available in one caliber” … and they addressed that problem by going down instead of up? Centimeter (.40 Magnum) fanbois might have another suggestion.

  2. Why would someone choose an inferior caliber to 9mm with no benefit in size reduction?
    This gun is stupid and anyone who buys this gun is stupid.

    • So bb – if you don’t like it, no one else should either? Nice little world you live in.
      So you’ve never met anyone (yet) with wrist injury problems that led to permanent weakness and discomfort ? Easy to rack, such as the 380 EZ (S&W) or this Sig is much appreciated.
      >> I also suggest you watch a You Tube video – “380 SUCKS! LOL watch this!!”
      >> 1,065,046 views Jan 20, 2014. Then Tell Me again how inferior the 380 is.

    • Amen! I’ve been saying this all along. But it seems we have some proponents of this caliber that apparently can’t handle man’s gun.

      • Outside of a defensive shotgun class almost any trip to the range, permit class, or sponsored shooting event I have been to in the last 2+ years has been majority female (usually slim majority but noticably more female than male for permit classes). Not sure how it is on the western half but Capital region is becoming very female oriented for shooters so sucks to be one looking for man’s calibers that are not primarily in demand.

        • Your right. Of the 16 million new to them gun owners half are female. SIG sees a market and has now caught up with production enough to make this model.

          In the meantime I got used to carrying a 9mm instead of a .380 and now have no reason to step back.

        • SAFE, I have taught a number of women to shoot a handgun. I have always recommended two things. 1) Buy a gun that is at least chambered in 9mm. If they could handle it, .40 S&W cal. (I have both and have not found much difference in the recoil.) 2) Don’t put the dan thing in your purse along with the other junk. It will be difficult to find even in a “dedicate” gun handbag. Not to mention the LINT. A 380 auto is just not going to cut it 90% of the time. Wounding the perp is great if the SOB will just day down. If not, you have more trouble.

        • Walt that would cover the ideal but realistically 380 is more than lethal enough and more importantly can be used more effectively by less strong females who are a bit more common than those who can easily handle 9 let alone proper 40. Bullet selection and shot placement will be important for many female shooters and getting them on something more than 22lr has been the challenge. Also purse and pocket carry are fine just need planning and cleaning the same as it has been for over a century. Important thing is to have a gun available if needed.

        • SAFE, a .380 is NOT lethal most of the time. As a matter of fact from stats I have gleamed have shown that they are “effective” only 10% of the time. It is NOT a “lethal” round.

          I’ve yet to run up against a woman who can’t handle a 9mm. If the woman is properly instructed she can handle the 9mm with no problem at all.

          In a “combat” (gun fight) situation, most people are operating on instinct and they don’t do “proper bullet placement”.

          I have pointed out that “purse and pocket carry” are fraught with stoppage problems due to lint. Not to mention drawing the gun is at best problematic UNLESS that person regularly PRACITCES. Most people do not even practice once a month let alone enough to be proficient in drawing and firing.

          I personally practice with a SIRT dat least three if not four times a week and go on the range even in this weather once every two weeks. Why? Because is you are NOT proficient with your firearm when you need it the skill will have deteriorated appreciably.

          IN short, without continued practice, practice, practice, no gun will help you save your own life unless you are EXTREMELY lucky. Wouldn’t you rather be good then lucky? To not practice and to think that you can “just get by” is a fool’s errand.

        • Walt overwhelmingly no pistol round is lethal even a slim majority of the time. Rifle and shotgun are the dominant players for killing in shootings. Any shot that kills in 9 will probably kill in 380 just as it has for decades otherwise 38 special would have never been bothered with. Not sure how many stoppages you have seen from pocket/purse carry but I have to look long hard and several states over for anything reliable in occurrence. Limp wristing on the other hand is super common and less of an issue when the shooter is comfortable with the gun. If they can work into 9 great if not 380 is good enough for most issues they will run into and when it isn’t 9 or even 40/357/10/44 are not likely to do much better. Also realistically any defensive pistol shooting lately will be most of the magazine if not one shot so the faster and more easily they can do that with a gun they will actually carry the better.

        • SAFE I have to strongly disagree. While the 9mm para is marginal it is a far superior round to the .380 auto. Better yet the ,40S&W is far superior to both and is more likely to be a “man stopper” than either the 9mm or the 380 auto. “Any shot that kills in 9 will probably kill in 380”? Wow! Not only is that an over simplification but is dead wrong. A .380 lacks mass to convert to stopping power. A comparison between the two round in ballistic gel tell the story better than I can.
          A .40 S&W is a man stopper; again, see the results of a ballistic gel test. .357? Pretty much the same. A 10 mm is a very powerful round almost comparable to the .45 acp. A .44 mag? Have you ever fired one? Have you seen the ballistic gel tests with the .44 mag? if you wee taught properly to shot, you were taught to shoot TWO ROUNDS in succession at center of mass to make it more likely you will stop your attacker.

        • Walt I understand your viewpoint and it is about where I started out with firearms. But how many of those rounds can a smaller framed person reliably double tap accurately in quick succession let alone mag dump. And its not 03 anymore 9mm has advanced considerably to the point that 40 is largely being phased out as redundant and the improvements apply to other calibers as well which is a shame as I did like 40/357 sig but availability sucks and they are not as much of an advantage as they were 2 decades ago. Also yes have seen the ballistic gel tests with all involved. Also saw the one shot stop reports and only 357 magnum was substantially higher. All pistols should start with a double tap and yes 380 has multiple loadings that have more than enough penetration to be deadly under adverse conditions and manstopping is meaningless unless you are talking shotgun or rifle and if you don’t believe me there are plenty of jihidi vids of khated up crazies soaking pistol rounds before rifles get involved in East and North Africa. Different experiences tend to create different viewpoints and strangely all tend to have a lot of useful data.

        • SAFE Who told you that the .40 S&W is being “phased out”? Poppy cock.

          The 9 has not progressed even close to the .40 cal. Not even in the same ball park. Recently I have not had any problem at all getting .40 S&W ammo. During the “pandemic”, yeah, but then there was a a shortage on everything.

          There is NO way that the puny .380 auto can even come half close to either the 9 or the 40. With the .380 you better use more than a “double tap.” You better unload the entire mag and hope like hell you hit something.

          I was in law enforcement for 35 yrs. I’ve carried .38 spc, .357, 9mm and 40 cal. I’ve even handled the .45 apc. Round for round the 40 is the one that does the job and still be able to be handled without any real problem. I’ve heard a lot of people complain that the .40 kicks to hard. I have found there is little if any difference if any between the recoil of the 9 and the 40. I’ve taught women to use the ,40. Hell, Rome PD has some pretty small women on the job and they are carrying the GLOCK Mod 21 (45acp) and they all qual with high scores. The key is PROPER INSTRUCTION. Proper instruction starts with GRIP.

          Unfortunately, too many instructors do not take the time to properly instruct their students let alone women shooters. They all assume (and you know what assuming does) that a woman can’t handle the .40. I’ll say it again. HORSE PUCKY!

        • I believe you. When I went to get my NC CCW permit in my county, there were two of us guys…the rest were females. IIRC there were @15 persons total.

        • FBI for starters as well as most federal agencies. Local governments to follow as the relative cost makes 40 unsustainable much like the 10 to 40 adoption issues back when you were working that largely phased out 45 acp and gap and essentially ended police revolvers for most agencies. Not saying it is a good idea but it is the direction things are headed even here in NY.

        • SAFE For your edification, (I’m sure you already know) 40 S&W is more expensive than 9mm. This is the REAL reason for the Feds going to the 9.

          The direction in this county is to remain with the .40 S&W. The 9 is OK, but….

        • I know Walt and used to do ordering for some of it and even 5 years ago I started to see more 9 and less everything else. I can’t speak for agency ordering prices now but if they are even remotely linked to market value (less so because of longer term purchase contracts) I could easily see 40 being even more expensive compared to 9 now than it was during the end of the Obama years. Personally I support officer discretion to go as heavy as they can reliably use under stress while not going too crazy with over penetration. But personal feelings are irrelevant when budgets and logistics are involved. Oh and as to why revolvers would still be in use anywhere it is a consideration of cost to replace, train on new equipment, disposal of unused ammo, and percentage of department facing retirement in 5 to 10 years. From what I remember it was mostly use up ammo stocks and switch over the least retirement high percentage agencies first and keep going. Up end 40 is very likely to stay in use for a good while so long as purchase contracts continue from what I remember.

        • SAFE I have to tell you, we have not had that problem here in this neck of the woods. .40 S&W has always been on the shelves until the pandemic and then you could not even get a .22LR.

          Our PD’s have not had any problem with getting the .40’s either. Around here, the PD’s and the SO’s feel that the stopping power of the .40 is necessary in this county. The Oneida Cty SO has been carrying the GLOCK Mod 22 for some 25-30 yrs. The only exception is Utica PD which carries the Smith & Wesson M&P. But there it has been for political reasons. The Chief of Police Rotundo did not like the GLOCK pistols and opted for SMITH. From the officers that I know, they would have much preferred the GLOCK but…
          Rome PD has always carried a .45. For a few years they switched over to the .45GLOCk round but it became to hard to get when the State Police switched over the .45GLOCK rounds. As of January 2018, New York State Troopers are issued the Glock 21 Gen 4 .45 ACP when ghey switched back because of the ability to get the 45GLOCK. Still today they carry the GLOCK 21 Gen 4. The RPD also carries the GLOCK 21 Gen 4. If I recall correctly there are 4 female officers on RPD and the State Troopers in this area have at lease 5 women Troopers working in Oneida County and Madison County zones. They all have to carry the 45acp just like the men and they have no problem qualifying.

          There is a MISCONCEPTION that the .40 S&W “kicks” much harder than the 9. Poppy cock. The difference in the recoil I have found to be miniscule. Again, the REAL problem is that shooters are not properly schooled in GRIP which is the main reason that people have a problem with any gun at all. The smaller the caliber the less the grip comes into play. Our PD’s don’t have any problem with “disposal” as they rotate stored ammunition first in first out. RPD requires officers to qual 2 times a year. I am not sure what the State Troopers do, but I know that Oneida Cty Sheriff’s Deputies also have to qual twice a year. Again they rotate stock, first in first out. GLOCK has always had a “trade in” policy for police departments. When a pistol has run its cycle, GLOCK takes the pistol in trade and gives the department a credit toward the new firearm.

          I have to agree about departments keeping the ,40 cals. But for a different reason. They consider the 40 to be a far superior man stopper to the 9. From what I have seen in the ballistic gel tests, I have to agree with then. Which is why I carry the GLOCK Mod 22 when I am out serving papers and only carry my GLOCK Mod 27 (also 40 S&W) ONLY during the summer months (around here, only late June to mid Sept. at best).

        • Walt I like 40 because of auto glass and body penetration. There are loadings of 9 that have mostly caught up but baseline 40 is good. Man stopping is pretty much the same at this point and I see as many of the 100 odd Albany shooting victims walk(limp) their happy asses to Albany Med after being shot by a 45 as a 40 as a 9. The draco and ar pistols not so much. If you hit something important they will go down and it will be quicker if it’s more important. Failing that yes bigger holes can be better for faster leaking but so can more holes faster. So for that part of the caliber argument I am not as set on any one caliber as it is still just a pistol.

        • SAFE As you say they “limp into Albany Med”. If they were hit in the vitals with a .40, they would not be limping, they would be in a body bag.

      • My dad would agree with you
        Which is why he passed his Colt 380 government model to me.
        I have since passed it on my nephew for his wife when he’s on duty with Austin Texas Police

      • Walter,- “proponents of this caliber that apparently can’t handle man’s gun.” >> that is an assumption, (like a new 2nd Lieutenant) as to how many calibers one owns.
        >>> As for kill power – “More deer have been dropped with a .22, a 12 pack and a flashlight than all calibers combined.” >”More Steers and Hogs have been dropped on the farm with a .22 for butcher than all other calibers combined.” Shot placement has always been KEY ! Not caliber! (steers had an average weight of 1,456 pounds at harvest, Hogs 250.) How much you weigh?

        • Ol’Sarge, Nope, that is an OBERSEVATION. I don’t know of any “deer …dropped” with a .22. That sounds like poppycock. I know for a fact in this State if you hunt deer with a .22 and get caught you are going to be in rather big trouble with the ECO’s

          .22’s are good for woodchuck, fox (if you do the .22 WRM) squirrels and rabbits. But not much more.

        • for Walter E B.S. – 1st> obviously you have no idea what was going on in NY Up-State – The More Deer shot by a 22 statement came from Franklin County New York in the 1980’s. Once again you Assume, I never said it was legal! Poaching has always been a major problem -everywhere. Just heard that statement again from a long time Hunter education & firearms instructor for 2 states in the midwest. (KS & Mo.) BTW -How many Hereford cattle or Yorkshire hogs have you helped butcher? (Or Deer?) They drop right where they stood. I drop squirrel with a pump .177 crosman, all day long, 22 not needed. And seen many a coon take on 3 or more hounds after being dropped from the tree with a 22. It’s all about shot placement.
          >>>So if you and all .380 haters watch the Y-T video i mentioned ” So You think the 380 Sucks, watch this” Then tell me again how you’ll catch one in your teeth and spit it out ! What a gun snob. BTW -NY police (NYC) are notorious bad shots (with their safe trigger pistols- If the trigger pull stats are true?) google that mess.
          >>>2nd – I agree with all – Some small light 380’s will kick more and be less controllable than a good 9 or an all steel 1911. I’ve seen more people, male & female struggle with a LCP 380, then I hand them a S&W or CZ 9 and improvement is immediate. Same for a very fit young lady (athletic scholarship) struggling with a Glock 40, couldn’t hit a plate at 10 Yds – CZ75 in 9 -Bingo, all on the plate, wanted to leave with my pistol.
          But if you’re saying lint stops a pistol? “Come on man”. That was a limp wrist or a very dirty pistol before it went in the purse. Spend more time time cleaning your carry gun. Not that I recommend a purse carry for many reasons. Lint ain’t one of them.
          >> For those saying Big calibers are the only way- I guess you’ll only carry a TAC-14.

        • Sarge come to think of it I do remember a few of the encon guys telling me how the great depression largely saw white tails extinct in Upstate NY and a mix of 22lr and suppressors were the biggest reasons (besides starvation obviously). Large part of the reason why suppressors are flat out illegal for civilians at the State level regardless of their growing popularity for the rest of the country. Poaching is a problem that goes back a long way.

        • Ol’Sarge. Pure unadulertated BULL SHIT. Using the .22 for deer hunting has been ILLEGAL in NYS for about 50 plus years.

          Any poacher who shoots deer period should be prosecuted to the FULLEST extent of the law.

        • Walt honestly not trying to be a smart ass here but that is exactly why we have so many damned encon officers and why their overtime can easily exceed their base salaries. And yes subsonic 22 to head has been common for a long damned time especially from a tree stand in remote as hell areas of the Adirondacks. Poachers suck and we have a lot of them.

      • Yes, my dear little friend. They are called little old ladies (or old men) with arthritis, and they also have a right to defend themselves. No, these people can’t handle a “man’s gun”, and that is alright. If we live long enough, we will all eventually become frail.

        You and I (and most gun guys under 75) don’t want it, but some people do. This Sig in .380 beats a .22lr, and a .22lr is better than harsh words.

        • He’s disparaged me more than once because my edc is a 380. I wear shorts and t shirts all year, as a work uniform. I’m interested in a 365 v Ruger Max faceoff.

        • just dropping by to say, I am more of a man in my little toe than you will ever be in your whole body. Of course that’s not saying much for me, is it?

        • Rad Man, Poor baby. If you can’t take the heat, don’t come in the kitchen. If you can’t handle a real gun, I guess a 380 is about the best you can do.

      • Some people might be wanting .380 for a small back up pistol. You know to back up the 9mm or .45acp they are carrying. Or to have a nother ‘common caliber” pistol for when 9mm or .45acp is out of stock. FWIW I’ve been waiting for Sig to offer this pistol in .380acp. I’m 6 ft 1″ @ 250lbs, so you can stop with your “.380 is for those who can’t handle a man’s gun” BS. Lighten up and learn something, because it’s obvious you do not know “everything”.

        • Touche Country Boy ! if W.E.B. the IIIrd was a real man by his own theory he’d be carrying a real .40 -the 10mm Mag. A S&W 1006 if it’s not too heavy for him. guess he prefers plastic Glocks. 😉 My hunting buddy up in Franklin Co carried a 1006 or M29 when on the road or in the woods.That 1006 was a joy to shoot!>>>
          A good point about not finding 9mm or 40 during these cyclic ammo hording phases we have. I went down to 7.62X25 for a while. ( S&B ammo)

        • Country Boy Just because you are 6’1″a nd 250, doesn’t mean you can handle a man’s gun. Maybe a .380 pop gun is all you can handle. I don’t know as I’ve never seen you shot anything off but your mouth.

          Time for you to get a grip on reality. I doubt that can happen, butx do try and give is a shot? 😁

        • Ol’Sarge What was your MOS? Were you a REMF? If you bothered to read (which apparently you either didn’t or can’t) you would know that I carry a GLOCK Mod 22 Gen 4 which is for your edification, a .40S&W. As to the 10? I have considered it but as I do civil work (serving papers) and sometimes have to call for assistance from local LEO’s who almost all carry the .40 cal, I have opted for the .40 for continuity. Thankfully I have not had to draw my firearm while serving papers although one time a jerk came to the door carrying a pellet gun which closely resembled the S&W Mod 27 (that’s a .357). I told him to put then gun down as I put my hand on my own gun and bladed taking cover behind the door jam leaving very little exposure. He using his head put his gun down, and I told him to step back. When I entered I say that it was a pellet gun.

          You bet your ass, I prefer the GLOCK. It is an excellent firearm which is used by the majority of law enforcement in this state. Except for the pandemic, I have had no problem at all of finding .40S&W, Maybe you don’t go to the right places for your ammo?
          If you need help finding ammo, let me know.

    • Busy, I’m no .380 ACP fan (do like some of the pistols chambered for it though). I mean I consider 9mm to be a minor Eurotrash caliber. However, some shooters are recoil sensitive. Be it medical, new shooter, etc. And a .380 is better than a sharp stick. I know two guys who own 365s. Nothing but high praise. And they would know.

      • @Gadsden Flag Sensible comment. So many hate .380, you know, the caliber that started WW1… Anyone who carries a .380 or a 32, or even a 25acp is better protected against an attacker than just harsh words. Not everyone can handle a 44 Mag or 454 Casull. For many the S&W .380EZ is a go to weapon. And your friends are right, the P365 is a great gun in 9mm, no reason for it not to be in .380acp.

      • One man with a .380 pistol started World War I. Gavrilo Princip murdered the archduke of Austria-Hungary and his wife. Both of them were hit once and both died within an hour. Anyone who thinks .380 can’t be lethal is an ignoramus.

        • Scott, Seems you are the ignoramus. It seems that the assassin shot the Arch Duke Ferdinand at point blank range in the abdomen and then the neck. The fatal wound was to the neck. Not the abdomen. Hell, numbnutz, a .22 to the head would have had the same result. Next time you want to chime on on a subject do COMPLETE research on the subject matter.

          I stand by my evaluation of the .380 auto as being a less than lethal round 90% of the time.

          A word of advice? You might want to check your FACTS before you make a bigger fool of yourself. Have a good day.

        • Scott – WEB the IIrd misses the obvious point ! – The Arch Duke was Dead !!! And .40 to gut would have done no better ! So who’s the fool? Also – How many times has a 9mm been less lethal ? We just had a local perp hit 3 times with pistol, & a Bean bag 12ga by the police after he charged them – He’s recovering in the hospital. So???
          Late 70’s & early 80’s – 2 diferent instances that I personally know about – 12ga to the head – both lived. They didn’t look the same but they lived. One had the State of NY pay for reconstructive surgery while doing time. SO by that account WEB the IIrd will say carry a 10gauge, 12’s are for wimps !
          Like I said -go watch the video I mentioned in a earlier post. You’ll appreciate it

        • Ol’Sarge, I did not miss a thing, Little Fella. For your edification because the .40 is larger and expands and has a LARGER channel wound destroying more organs and tissue. You being an “Ol’Sarge should know that. One has to wonder what you did in the service, if you don’t know that.

          A “bean bag round from a shotgun is designed to be “less than lethal.” So the chances of his being killed by such is slim and none. As to being his with a pistol round it depends on where he was hit. For some reason you leave that VITAL fact out.

          As to these two instances where you say someone was hit in the head with a 12ga, again, it depends on where he was hit AND WHAT KIND OF ROUND. But then again, you leave that information out.

          Try again? If you want….

    • busybeef sounds like the current Liberal/Democrat/Socialist/Marxist/Communists. You have to like what we like. You have to watch what we watch. You have to think like we do. etc.etc.etc. Conform Conform Conform!!

    • I only want a .380 if it is smaller than a 9mm. The day ruger comes out with a 9mm LCP max, im ditching the .380. The Max is still small enough compared the the P365 that I prefer it for pocket carry.

  3. My friend has allowed me to shoot his 365 on several trips to the range. I would describe it as very soft shooting. To the point that almost all of the FTF issues could be attributed to his grip. If you give any on the recoil, you could have an issue. I can’t see the need to lighten the recoil of this particular model.

    However, I believe that variety is the spice of life. That SIG has offered the gun in a different caliber is perfectly acceptable.

  4. Didn’t the P365 kill all those micro .380’s that were so popular at the time of its release like the TCP and LCP?

    Now we’ve come full circle with no additional capacity or size reduction. Neat.

      • Had a Taurus TCP. EZ to shoot. Quite EZ to pocket carry. No problems at all. Making a 380 the same size(but a bit lighter) is kinda dumb. My buddy got a Sig365 with 12 round mags. Only a bit painful to shoot but could be cured by a Handall Jr. This smacks of S&W EZ territory…

        • I’ve had pistols that were painful to shoot (Scandium J-Frame .357 – REE!), but the P365 isn’t one of them. To be fair, I guess I might feel differently if I were smaller.

        • The Sig P365 is considerably larger and heavier than the micro
          .380 LCP/P3AT/TCP class of guns.

          Those little guys still have a niche for deep and or casual concealment (with the LCP Max probably being the best).

          I recently bought a Ruger Max 9 (similar size and function to the Sig P365). It now fills my pocket carry role instead of the 642 J-frame. Still, the Max 9 is sometimes a bit bigger than I want, and I will step down to the old LCP to be more discreet.

          I love a micro .380 or a J-frame for pocket carry. It’s just that I want the most capacity. 10+1 of 9mm beats 5 or .38sp or 6+1 of .380, and still usually works for pocket duty.

        • Lol you carry a Taurus? In what other ways do you let the world know you’re a loser who’s given up on his hopes and dreams?

        • I expected it to be a little smaller. Lighter is still better for pocket carry, which is the only reason I occasionally carry a 380. Pocket carry is just convenient. I think mine’s around 13 oz.

    • It’s smart to keep it in the same size, thus it’s compatible with all the holsters and accessories that are already available for the 365.

  5. Interesting.

    380 might be less powerful than 9 but it’s not all that unpopular. I would not use it for defense unless *maybe* as a backup, *possibly*. But that doesn’t make it useless anymore that .22lr or even .32 is. There is a market for this caliber for sure. This might be a good one for the ladies to look at.

    • 22lr is good for raccoons with a bad attitude.
      Had one on my mom’s ranch house.
      Got into food met for mom’s cats, only reason I didn’t she could have kits to feed!
      Also raccoons keep 🐀 rat population down

      • They play hell with the chickens and the sweet corn patch.
        Plus they get rabies easy.
        Quit feeding the cats and they’ll eat the rats, lol.

        • Dang! I hate what raccoons do to a sweet corn patch. They pull each ear down and take one or two bites out of it. Infuriating

          I’ve also had those f*ers kill chickens, and I live in town where I shouldn’t blast them.

      • @Art out West.
        Yeah, they sure do that. I watched a mom coon and her young ones go into a corn patch and I tell yah, they was having a blast, chirping and caring on, chasing each other ripping up one ear then on to another one. They was having so much fun it was kinda hard to get pissed at them.
        Mom was over there chewing away getting full but the kids was like they was in an amusement park and couldn’t hit all the rides fast enough.

  6. My LCP has been demoted since I acquired a 365, the recoil is about the same between the steel 365 and the polymer LCP. The only drawback is the SIG is noticeably heavier, so pocket carry is less comfortable.
    A 365 in .380 might appeal to the very recoil sensitive.

    • Would have made sense to chamber it in 30Super and at least pick up a round or two, but chambering in a shorter round of the same diameter makes zero sense. However, they’ll sell a ton of them because SIG fanboiz.

      • Likely a 15 rd mag will soon be available for the .380 , if it isn’t already. I use the 15 rd mag for my concealed P365 9mm.

    • Pete Convenience? Pocket carry even in the best of “pocket holsters” is a fools errand. In every pocket in the world there is this thing we refer to as “pocket lint”. Now where do you think that lint ins going to wind up? Do you think it could cause a “failure to fire”? A gun belongs on your strong side hip. If you don’t know how do do this, I suggest that you take a good concealed carry course.

      • Walter the Beverley Hillbilly

        As usual you do no know your ass from a hole in the ground. The main reason people buy a pocket holster is to keep the gun upright in your pocket and yes you fool it does keep lint out of the gun as I have been using a pocket holster for years. If you were not so cheap and stingy and bought some new cloths you would not have the lint problem anyway.

        • Thank you. WEB is very much my way or the highway, indicating he doesn’t know a lot about guns, clothing, or occupation.

        • dacian the DUNERHEAD Well,, little fella, if you want your gun to have a malfunction, you go right ahead and carry your pea shooter in your pocket along with all the other junk and lint. but then you aren’t the brightest light on the tree.

        • Cat Boss and Rad Man, please do yourself a favor and try to learn how to handle a real gun. Your pea shooters are might be good for fun and frolic but not much else.

      • you do know that many Americans keep the lint out of their pockets don’t you? Especially the ones who pocket carry. Think man THINK.

        • Country Boy you might want to use your head for something more than a hat rack
          Most people “pocket carry” or not, don’t clean their pocket of the lint. But hey, maybe you are the exception.

  7. Here we go again with this380 Auto nonsense. 380 auto is a peep squeak of a gun. It has little penetration and expansion. The damn bullet is too damn small to stop the perp for sure.

    • I don’t think that’s the complaint, most would agree that the 380 is at least a (minimum) okay defensive round… it’s just that the original was built around the 9mm, so why not also build a new model to take advantage of the smaller form factor that would be possible with the watered down round ?

      • The answer was money. Most gun owners are not that intelligent when it comes to all things mechanical and they will not know that the 9mm is the same size. I might also add if the new Sig was built as a blow back and not a lock breached weapon the .380 will actually recoil much more.

        This model series has had a curse on it from day one whether we are speaking of the 9mm or the .380.



        P.S. In the past I have repeatedly warned people never, never to buy a new model gun until it has been out on the market for at least 2 years as there are always endless recalls because of the blind greed of the manufacturer who is too cheap and stingy to properly test a new model before putting it on the market. Its cheaper to fk the customers and have them test it for them.

        • Correction on my link it was about the 9mm not the 380 model but reports on the .380 model have stated people have had numerous fails to fire.

        • “I might also add if the new Sig was built as a blow back and not a lock breached weapon the .380 will actually recoil much more.” But it’s not so I’m not sure what you’re point is. You’re basically saying that if it was a different gun it might recoil more… so?

    • To Walter the Beverly Hillbilly

      Another idiotic rant. Surveys have shown that more people are killed by the .25 acp and the .32 acp than all other calibers so bad mouthing the .380 makes you an even bigger fool.

        • I should have added that the .32 acp actually out penetrates the .380, that is why the German Army chose it over the 380 because the 32 acp penetrated a military helmet in the test and the ,380 bounced off.

          I might add in a U.S. Military test in 1945 the 9mm penetrated a helmet at an astonishing 125 yards and the dud round .45acp bounced off the helmet at only 35 yards. See the book “The Inglis Diamond”.

          I might also add that a man was attacted outside a bar by 3 thugs and the man shot all of them with a 25 acp one shot each and killed all 3.

          And a Lady cab driver was abducted by a serial killer but she had a hidden .25 acp on her and when he took her to a remote area to murder her she blew him away with her .25 acp, deader than hell.

      • This reply is directed to Dacian and Walter.
        Walter, I find myself in the uncomfortable position of agreeing with Dacian. At least as far as pocket carry goes. After all, let’s not get stupid. I’ve pocket carried for decades. Never had a problem with lint. Revolver and semi-auto. A quality pocket holster is the answer. I recommend Rosen, Kramer, Sparks, Galco, etc. because I have real world experience with them. Dacian, I also have real world experience with homicides involving .25, .32 and .380 ACP. And I have a lot more experience interviewing a GSW victim of those calibers while being treated by EMS. Yeah, they could talk. Usually wasn’t kept overnight at the hospital. In my experience Dacian got those caliber/homicide statistics from one of his studies.
        Guys, said it before. When it comes to handgun calibers; bigger, deeper holes are the answer. Never mind the last article you read. Ask your local medical examiner after the next autopsy you attend. I always did.

        • That is your prerogative. A 380 auto will not reliably put a perp down. Bottom line. Give me a .40 S&W any day over your pop gun. Might as well carry spit balls. The 380 auto has little stopping power and in a gun fight that is what counts.

        • Pistols in general do not have the destructive capacity we want. 9mm short and a bunch of other “mouse” calibers, have killed a bunch of people. It wasn’t that long ago that .38 special was the go to caliber. Stats have continually stated the same thing and it is that for civilian distances (handgun) caliber matters very little. Even history shows that many of the pistols of the old west (heck most of the 19th century) were putting out energy levels below what modern full sized handguns do in 9mm para. And yet dudes died plenty. And how about the kavetching about size when 5.56 came out?

          All things being equal I would want the “bigger” caliber. Although, oftentimes smaller bullets with more “gas” penetrate deeper (like a tokarev). But all things are usually not equal and if they were I would want a long gun. But that is not always convenient.

          It does not matter if dacian stated it or not. It is still true.

        • DDW, Any round “can kill”, but to do so with any consistence is the criteria that someone who owns a firearm should be going by. I absolutely agree with you that in the case of a caliber “bigger is much better.” I’ve been carrying a .40S&W since I retired from the State. Before I retired, if I was taking a convict on a trip to a hospital, or court, etc, the department equipped us with S&W Model 10 with a bull barrel. Was it adequate? Debatable, at best, but that is what the Department issued to the officers and sergeants on a trip. Today, I understand that they have changed over to the GLOCK Mod 17 that that State Troopers transferred to DOCCS when they went to the .45GLOCK. Those GLOCKS that the Troopers gave(sold) to DOCCS were at best WRONG OUT from all the rounds that the Troopers had put through then over the years. Needless to say each gun should have been (I doubt that DOCCS did) rebuild the guns with new barrels, springs and firing pins. DOCCS has always operated on the cheap principle.

          In this neck of the woods, all the Police Departments except Utica PD carry at least the .40S&W (Oneida County Sheriff’s, and village PDs). The Troopers all carry the GLOCK in .45GLOCK round. Rome City PD carries the GLOCK in 45APC.

          A word to the wise, if the police in your region, don’t carry the pip squeak .380, what does that tell you? But we will always have the .380 auto fans who just carry to say they are carrying a gun.

      • dacian, the DUNDERHEAD. Just goes to show just how much you know about handguns and firearms in general. Small caliber rounds do not incapacitate in 90% of the time.

        Please go back to mommy’s basement and hibernate.

        • Walter you Hill Jack. Every post you make about firearms shows you know little about them. I had a good laugh about your wild 90% failure rate, you seem to just pick numbers out of the air showing what a Dotard you are.

          And judging from all the negative comments you received from the other posters they know what a fake you are as well.

        • dacoian, the DUNDERHEAD. What you know about firearms I could stick in the bottom of a thimble and never cover the bottom. Your “numbers” are horse pucky. They don’t account for the times where that little ole .380 did not do the trick and the guy carrying it got his arse kicked. Does your mommy know you are playing on the computer again?

    • Ask Chad Oulson how much a .380 doesn’t stop someone.
      Oh that’s right, Chad Oulson is dead from a single .380 bullet and the guy who shot him is on trial now.

      The whole world doesn’t think like you. People chose .380 for a reason. Does it match your reason? No. Would I chose a 365 in .380? No. But I’m not elderly, I don’t struggle with recoil. There are tradeoffs to be made with calibers and weapon size. Pretending you know what’s best for everyone is ridiculous.

      • Exactly. Many people like to disparage the .380 round. Yet I’m sure, not 1 of them would be willing to take a round to the body to prove their opinion of it’s uselessness.

      • Colonel, I’m not sure who your comment is directed at, but I kinda get your point. Chad was killed from a single .380 ACP bullet. I worked a homicide where the victim was killed by a single blow to the head with a cast iron skillet. (How’s that for a one shot stop.) Point is, I don’t put a frying pan in my pocket when I walk out the door. I’ll stick with what I have personally seen work best. That’s bigger, deeper holes. Dacian can keep reading his studies. 😆

        • It was for Walter E Beverly III.

          The idea that a .380 is “too damn small to stop the perp for sure” is simply nonsense. There are countless examples right now of 9mm not stopping someone immediately, either.

          So many variables to consider with a gunfight.

        • Ah Colonel Travis there are also dozens and dozens more where the .380 was proved totally inadequate.

      • Well Col, it was a lucky hit to be sure. 90% of the hits by a small caliber do not incapacitate. A wounded subject is more dangerous than a unwounded perpetrator.

        Col? A col of what? Corn?

    • Screwdriver tips have been impressive in both this as well as 32acp. I am looking more in the centimeter direction for any new gun but my wife did love a few 380’s we tried on vacation. Can’t say I think that the 365 template is an ideal footprint for the round though but guess we will see how it works out.

      • Same with those polymer ARX bullets out of my TCP. They tear stuff up, and I wouldn’t want to be on the wrong end of one. Could just about carry that little thing up a sleeve.

        • Any info on those for barrier penetration? I found enough to trust the Lehigh but haven’t had much luck on the copper polymer mixes.

    • Nope, I’m waiting for SIGs shipment of six pound recoil springs and ten round magazines to arrive, then I’m going to be the first at the range to own the New SIG . 25ACP 1911, I’ll be the envy of everyone I meet !

    • I was going to say it more as a troll than anything.

      This even existing shows how saturated the carry pistol market really is. I mean if there wasn’t a lot of competition in this area I don’t think you’d even see stuff like this coming out.

  8. Guns have many uses and NOT everything is about self defense. There is also NOT much choice always available. While everyone laughs about 380, I’m wondering about their state of mind if the ONLY thing considered is self defense. Some of this is understandable since Covid started.

    I would NOT suggest people try to use 50BMG for self defense either. Unless your a soldier on the battlefield.

    380 makes a great plinking round. They are good for being someone’s first firearm or for training. 380 can kill and might be a perfect choice for smaller people or maybe for being able to carry ‘something’.

    Personally, there is something kinda sexy about a woman carrying a 380 in a garter thigh holster.

      • Maybe because it feels better in the hand. Perhaps just for it being Sig. it could be that it’s the one on sale or is the one the LGS actually has in stock. There are collectors that want atleast one of everything from a maker or in a particular caliber.

        Or maybe…
        *just because*

  9. The squarish sights might make it harder to draw from a pocket.
    Lint in the barrel, I wonder how much lint it would take to blow a gunm up?

  10. And for those of you who like Walter the Beverly Hillbilly think small calibers are all worthless let us now look at the .22 rimfire. If you watched the attempted Pres. Regan assignation 3 large men were actually blow off their feet by a .22 rimfire hand gun.

    The security guard who was hit was the most dramatic because although he was only hit in the torso it spun him around and knocked him off his feet.

    Of Course the luckless Jim Brady was hit in the head.

    Reagan was hit in the torso and the bullet penetrated so deeply that it came within less than an inch of his heart which would have killed him.

    So next time some fool like Walther the Beverley Hillbilly tries to badmouth smaller calibers just remember this example. Of course there have been many, many more two of which I mentioned in my above post on the .25 acp.

    As far back as 1891 every African Big Game Hunter was dumping the very large diameter bullet black powder arms because it was quickly learned that it was not bullet diameter but bullet penetration and placement that killed. It remains so to this very day.

    I might also say the 9×19 has been the world standard military and police cartridge since the early 1900’s. There is a reason for this, because it works. Few nations adopted the .45 acp proving that they found it in no way superior to the 9×19. So did Pistolero magazine in the 1980’s when they shot barn yard pigs with both calibers.

    • dacian, the DUNDERHEAD. Thanks for proving my point. Not only are you as dumb as a box of rock, but you echoed my object to the .380 auto.

      Yep, the assassin who attempted to kill President Reagan used a .22LR round. And see just how effective it was? In fact is ricocheted of the limo, went through his arm and lodged in his lung. It did not come near Reagan’s heart as you allege. And now you are trying to be a proponent of the .25 acp? ROFLMAOBT! You keep getting more stupid each and ever day. While the 9mm parabellum might be the “world standard military and police cartridge”, it is not the standard here with American police. In fact is is only used in a small number of departments country wide. Yep, it’s used in LA, NYC and some big cities but not by US police as a general rule.

      The ONLY reason that the US military uses the 9mm para is because it is the NATO pistol round. It is an acceptable round but lacks real power as the .45 acp has. For your further edification (I know folks, I’m pissing into the wind here) Special Forces opts for the .45 acp in various handguns they carry although the “”official gun” is the Sig P226 (which is 9mm). Those countries who have opted for the 9mm have done so for POLITICAL reasons, not because the 9 mm is superior to anything. In fact dacian, the DUNNDERHEAD until the US adopted the 9mm Beretta the US military had always fired the 45 ACP but you already know that. Police in Europe have a different mind set towards firearms than Americans.
      Not go back to mommy’s basement and behave yourself like a good little boy.

  11. The chief advantage of this is the lightened recoil spring, in my opinion. I know of multiple female shooters lacking in hand strength who have difficulty running the slide on a P365. They get it done, but it’s more of a challenge than is ideal. Another potential solution to that problem is simply running a reduced-power recoil spring and shooting lighter “reduced-recoil” 9mm loads. You would likely still end up with more power than a .380.

    • Glorfindel, (Rolling my eyes). Again the 380 auto is really an ineffective round. OK, the slide is “difficult” for a woman to rack. But they are by and large able to do it.

      The reason that the recoil spring is as “tight” as it is because a lighter one would not last very long to be serviceable and would cause failure to reload the next round.

      • You sound exactly like the type of redneck yahoo who says crap like, “A 9mm will wound you, but .45 ACP will knock you backwards through a plate glass window.” Get bent, loser.

        • Scott, Ah, golly gee wilikers. A 9mm can kill, but a .45 ACP will know you on your arse. Speaking losers. I guess you are one of those guys who can’t shot a real gun so, you use your trust pocket rocket.
          Get bent.

  12. The current frame obviously wouldn’t take them. I envision a metal chassis that would accept P938 / mini 1911 slides and FC parts, and fit in a (probably modified) P365 grip frame.

    As long as the P365 mag fits into a .989″ wide grip frame (smaller than most single-stacks; small enough to conceal under shorts and T-shirt for me, and just about as small as I’d ever want to grip), no single stack really makes sense to me anymore.

    • Aside from ultra slim all metal frame and mag for concealment and less unpleasant recoil in small packages with the extra weight single stack is a bit obsolescent. I am curious how thin a 1.5 to double stack could be made but I also run into magazine capacity issues so above a subcompact the question is moot for now.

      • Does anything like that actually exist? Metal frames with screwed-on grips make single-stacks wider than double-stack P365s. One could of course make a metal P365 grip frame with no panels (I know they exist for P320, and believe P365 as well), but I don’t know if I’ve seen any single-stacks like that.

        • Be the change you want to see? Shame home building (especially pistols) is getting retarded up here as that sounds like a fun experiment.

        • Same here. I escaped CA to one of the freest states only to see it become one of the worst (from my perspective as a home gunsmith) with the passage of a “Ghost Gun” law. I haven’t stopped inventing and smithing, but now I have to base everything on an existing receiver.

      • Limited funds for tooling but reloading (before supply issues) along with a surplus of retired ballistic fiberglass has been a fun tinkering outlet. Still trying to figure out how much powder is needed to push a 65g copper 9mm through the 3a equivalent but standard pressure power pistol loads seem to do fine against 2 and 2a is not a concern. Thinking 357 sig or a longer barrel will do it.

        • No………but only because I have nothing available for it in any reasonably sufficient amount. 5.56 shell holder and custom dies I am guessing? And looking at velocity to diameter it is a possibility for 3a if sd and durability are there in the bullet but probably need a longer than normal barrel. Gah no do not need a new tinker caliber and tool set.

        • Looks like it is right on the borderline with whatever version of hollow point it is using……… Yeah want to see that with fmj and damnit new project to research. Shame we don’t know if the vest was on the NIJ .04 or .06 standards or kevlar vs uhmwpe but that’s a lot of detail for a YouTube vid.

        • “Borderline”? All four TCMs went through, and that’s JHP. I’d certainly expect it to penetrate better with FMJ and think that would be a cool experiment, but (given relative probabilities) think that JHP load is close to optimal.

          One other possibility that just came to mind would be something like the Lehigh Extreme Penetrators, which could offer ridiculously high velocities.

          I just looked back at the headline, thought about how I was straying off topic, then realized that a .22TCM P365XL would be a superb answer for the arthritic / small-handed customer the .380 is supposed to address, offering lethality along with the low recoil and light spring.

  13. Borderline in that it stopped on bone after penetration and may not have sufficient lethal penetration after vest. Typically fmj out penetrates jhp but I have seen surprises. Agreed to the Lehigh penetrators/defenders but I think they only go down to the typical 32 calibers so may have to get creative in 22.

      • Honestly half tempted to shorten a standard 55 grain fmj and see if it seats. Be a bit annoying to shape the base but this would be one to review specs a bit more than a typical weekend. Could probably get a 855 pull to work as well but then we get into ap grey area for NY

        • Isn’t everything a grey area for the NYSSR?

          I’d try something with a shorter ogive. TCM (and especially 9R) is very limiting on OAL. Weird thought: it might be better to try a trimmed TMJ BT backwards.

        • Varies by county re “everything” but yes many to most things can be and I think you are right too much spire to base if I trimmed it down. Doesn’t help that many bullets have been out of stock/no backorder for years in low grain 22 that will ship here.

        • Yeah, I got out of reloading because I was too busy with work, thought about going back after I retired, then rapidly lost interest after looking for supplies.

        • Hopefully in a year or two but till then did have fun refinishing a rustington 870 (hilariously the bluing kit is already doing and looking better on the receiver than when I picked it up) and poking around with what kinds of readily available and legal hazards could be an issue with the older (NIJ .04) edition vests still floating around. Now for the fun part of getting into an outdoor range club so I can get into 308 and 45-70 again.

        • “Now for the fun part of getting into an outdoor range club so I can get into 308 and 45-70 again.”

          There’s plenty of room out West. If you ever decide to move to the US, please let me know!👍

        • West or south eventually, honestly it will depend on where the kids end up but unfortunately I just don’t see that being here.

    • Fun place to learn about more obscure calibers and loadings and occasionally explore generational assumptions that may need updating but that is me being overly optimistic. But at least we now generally accept 9mm as an effective defense option compared to 20 (or less) years ago.

  14. An answer to a question nobody asked. The .380 is a joke. Better than .25 ACP, but not by much.

    There are smaller, and better .380’s for much cheaper and available for sale in the next year to normal folks at a reasonable.

    I’m not a SIG hater, I have four of them. The P-230 is a safe queen, nice gun, but a caliber nobody wants. There was a 9mm P 230 but BATF’s rules on the “Point System” made it unimportable.

    I’m sure this is a fine, reliable gun. In a caliber no one wants with half a brain cell. You’re liable to piss off a drugged up attacker with it. I’ll pass. Plus the ammo is outrageous. A 100 round box at Walmart (When there was ammo to buy there. Or anywhere.) was almost $10 more than 230 grain .45 ACP 230 grain ball. For a 90 grain load of ball?

  15. for Walt the 3rd -No trying to it- I touch your buttons and you go off ! I see you were a jailer escorting prisoners already caught. Which means the rest of the time you were unarmed in the Block. Not exactly carrying daily. So- Where did I comment that the 40 or 45 are not bigger ??? I will agree with upstateFML, “No matter the caliber, there can (and has been) be a fail”! And no matter how small the caliber – there has been success.
    I did say -“Shot Placement is Key” regardless of size. I personally know of 2 instances of a 12ga. to the head at point blank, – and both survived. The one in NY -your state pen footed the bill for his reconstructive surgery. I have also been the one to find a deceased with a 12ga to the chest at point blank – DRT, spent shell about a Yard away. Back in the late 70’s early 80’s (or later), there was a fine gentleman of a Central NY social club. As a problem solver, his favorite tool of choice was a 22 pistol. Not much of a twist left in the bore, serial numbers too old to get a read. Holster must have scratched them. Just like the jacked deer – close range, shot placement, very effective. And unfortunately they all fell out of while fishing… He wasn’t much of a fisherman, even standing on the bank.
    If you find a bullet that “Always Expands” by all means enlighten us all. You’d save me a lot of time and $$$- I’m still testing. Sheet rock and 2×4’s defeat a lot of so called defensive rounds. (And I have never met anyone wearing 4 layers of denim;-) As to a 380 will just wound and piss them off. – all those you say you’ve taught – Did you forget the rule – You keep shooting until the threat is neutralized? And that doesn’t necessarily mean, he’s dead.
    That rule is not caliber specific for a reason.
    Now Please let me know when you watch the video I mentioned in my early post. Then tell me you’ll sit behind a windshield while a 380 pops off at you. Straight and at an angle. IF you are still not impressed – (or enlightened?) I can’t help you. You have a good week Walt and upstateFML. I do miss the Adirondacks but not the NY politics. Even the small towns had crooked politicians.

    • Ol’Sarge, that’s right. but I was not a “jailer”. I was a Correction Sergeant.

      Here is a piece of information for your REMF arse. The larger the bullet the more it EXPANDS? is this a concept that you cannot understand? A .380 pocket rocket is not going to have the expansion that a 9mm or a 40 will. This is just simple physics. Not really complicated. I suggest that you purchase some Hornaday Personal Protection ammunition, but I doubt you can get it for your pocket rocket. Yeah, a 2X4 just might defeat a defensive round. But surer than hell, a piece of sheetrock is not going to stop a 9mm or a 40 cal.

      As far as shooting until the threat is ended with a .380, you just might have to reload a couple of times. I just hope you have enough spare mags in your belt (not your pocket) and can reload fast enough. With my .40 S&W, it will be double tap at center of mass, end of story.

      As to your windshield crapola, it’s just that. How many windshields have you shot at with your pocket rocket? ROFLMAOBT! Hope you have access to a car junk yard.

  16. LOL – reading comprehension problems Walt? REMF – Damn Right, due to promotions. Last MOS Z50 – fixed all problems logistics. to include mobilizing Battalions. Wore a lot of hats in 22+ years And I see you didn’t bother with the video – Your Loss not mine. Now about the Five 7even for the Secret Service? Or 22 TCM? Yes – always carry the spare mag no matter what I’m carrying. Balances the belt for one. >But you forget – I said I Use to live In NY – In a “Free State” now > number of rounds are not limited and you don’t have to conceal shit. Until the Rush on all things firearms – Pick out Pistol of choice,fill out paperwork – phone call to pass checks – done. Out the door with new firearm -30 round mags or a drum if so inclined. Oh, and discount Ammo mailed right to my door. – How about you ? And my Sporting rifles aren’t funny looking like those overpriced NY contraptions.
    BTW -my favorite carry is a stainless 1911 until its like 100^ out. With my shot placement, a 380 will be no problem. You know modern 380 can clock in @ 1000+fps??
    You have a good day Walt. If you make it to the KC area, bring your tools,(it’s legal here) we’ll do some range test and comparison.

    • Ol’Sarge They only think you “logistics” people ever fixed was your own pockets. Logistics in the Army is FUBAR! My son was a 11B. I was a 0311 (Marine) Both of us where GRUNTS.

      The reason we have problem with the Leftists here in NYS is because of you LLDB’s (Lousy Little Dirty Bugouts.) Oh, BTW, I don’t have any “overpriced NY contraptions”. I have the real thing. 2 of them to be exact (AR’s)

      Congratulations on your “stainless” 1911. I just hope the sunlight don’t blind you in a gun fight. LOL.

      Well, if you love your little pop gun (380) knock yourself out. I just hope you don’t ever get into a gun fight with it. But if you ever do, please send me your address so I can send your wife my condolences.

      Have a good day, REMF!

  17. Explains your lack of reading comprehension and being a cage kicker -Yes “Corrections officers” are cage kickers/Jailers. So much for trying to down grade me with the REMF shit. None of My stainless are polished, once again you assumed. No glint. The Wife’s two revolvers are polished, nice investment for the price she paid for them older Smiths. She’s quite happy with her side of the safe and it’s her 380 we’re talking about. Goes with her M&P collection. People like you are one reason she’s so happy to be out of NY. We are so far from leftist you’re center left. And you have no Idea what Logistics entails, or you “grunts” would Kiss my ass. – You don’t get shit in the field, hell you don’t even get to the “Field” unless we arrange it! I suppose I lined my own pockets with with dirt & sweet in 4 foreign countries off loading and loading the the engineer equipment to build your camps and bases (RO-Ro -big fkn boat, and C5a’s) or the major unit equipment to resupply on rail, the whole train. Way back in rank- I hauled the semi loads to port, here & over there. Before the Z50 MOS I was the operator/instructor for D7’s, 620B, and 20T Crane, M900 series heavy trucks (Semi’s). And as mentioned was NCOIC of crew served weapons for a unit, and did instruction on the M203 for a Grp Cmnd qualification fire 1980. 90’s Range Safety NCO, and Bn Range NCOIC for Qual fire. – This REMF got around.
    But FYI on grunt games – not only did the arctic survival test at below -30 when stationed in Alaska – maintained that mountain camp for a winter – (Black Rapids 73) > As army engineers did many a field fox hole and pup-tent, my range card for the pig, then camo’d the big shit if needed. The 1st Bn & Grp command I supported as an E5,were a bunch of (MOS)18A thru F. (SF) I was such a poor REMF they tried to recruit me for weeks after. I had no problem hanging with that crew. >> This is the short list. Amazing how many jar heads & grunts think they are the only ones in the field, or can road march, or shoot.

    Walt – be careful talking about your AR’s up there -your not the only one with the real shit, but I hear those City cops got no since of humor. Kinda like jailers 😉
    >> Stay Safe, don’t stub your toe on a cage on the way to bed.

    • Ol’Sage, aka REMF, Maybe you REMF’s consider us “cage kickers” but from what my son tells me that is Army slang for Correction Officers.

      You are the typical REMF. You see “stainless” reflects light where a blued finish reflects little if any. Anyone carrying a “stainless” should be aware of that. But then you are a REMF.

      Again, a .380 auto is nothing but a bee sting form a pea shooter. You really ought to teach your wife to use something that has a chance of stopping the perp.

      I know damn well what “logistics” entails. I also know that failed logistics has killed almost as many soldiers and Marines as the enemy. “Kiss your ass”? ROFLMAOBT! Not hardly, little fella. I’ve seen too many screwups that could not handle combat who were relegated to “logistics” where they would be nice and safe. The only “dirt and sweat” you ever earned was in the warehouse where you were nice and safe from the rigors of the field.

      Now you try to claim you were an “”engineer?” ROFLAMO. Not hardly, you were “logistics” remember?

      Don’t you worry your little “heart” about my AR’s. Oh, by the way, I don’t live in NYC. I’m an upstate shit kicker.

      One has to wonder how many times you occupied a cell in the guard house. I am sure you could not handle a “red line brig”. You would have a [problem asking permission to cross the yellow line.

      Have a good day, REMF.

  18. Walt I’m glad your son helped you with that simple analogy, who know how long if ever you would’ve figured that out. You’ve got to be one of the most ignorant hard headed posters on TTAG. I bet you still have those Hillary stickers on your vehicle. I truly hope your son has a higher IQ than you.
    1. that last assignment was – Here’s where you’re going sarge, or you can decline the promotion. 2. Don’t care what you “Think my job was”. You obviously have no idea.
    3. Albany is nowhere near the real upstate. Been there, and many other Cities & bases in NY. And yes your PD will confiscate a real AR in a NY minute. 4. A nice Blueing is very reflective, way more than bead blasted stainless. Once again your ignorance shows.
    >>> I do agree – on your “failed Logistics” quote. and 50% fall into your assumption of work ethic. I was not one of those. When I could not get a requested transfer, I retired @ 22 1/2 yrs service. Only the last 2 yrs were at a Logistics HQ. If you are dumb enough to think a soldier spends 22 years at a group command – you must have been a reservist. >even they sometimes have to transfer out of their hometown unit for a promotion, or turn it down and wait in line. Come to think of it -there was a MP battalion in NY state. One of their leaders drove his convoy right into the Ft Drum airfield security fence during a night move. Funny as hell, you could see the entire grill imprint in the fence the next morning. Was it you Walt? 94 or 95? I was gone after that. How was the whiplash.

  19. Ol’Sarge aka REMF, It seems your IQ lower than your shoe size. Yeah, I suppose you might say I am hard headed. When I know I’m right, I press on.

    In 94 and beyond I was assigned to a Medium Security prison here in Rome, NY. So your buddy who crashed the hummer could not have been me, dumbass.

    As to your last assignment, wasn’t that retirement? That’s where the Army puts is useless dregs it’s been dragging on over the years.

    Ah, Shit for brains, I don’t live in Albany. Or for that matter any where near it. As to the “may bases in NYS?? ROFLMAOBT! Griffiss AFB closed in 1996 and Ft Drum is up by Watertown. So where were all these bases you were at in NYS?

    No one is confiscating my AR’s. You see they are registered as is require by NYS law. I comply with law whether I agree with it or not. Should the police try to confiscate any of my firearms, they will face one hellacious lawsuit in Federal Court.

    As to your service, I suppose we should thank your useless ass, b ut… Logistics is on every Army post in the world. my work ethic doggie is second to none, especially a dog faced logistics REMF such as yourself.

    No, REMF I was not a “reservist.” I was a regular Marine Corps grunt four years, two of which were in Vietnam. For your edification there is NO MP regular Army battalion in NYS. It’s a National Guard outfit. Seems you don’t know very much about the MP’s; probably as much as you know about logistics.

    And you can refer to me as Mr. Beverly, or Sergeant as that was my last rank in Corrections, using my first name is reserved for friends and family. A REMF such as yourself is not either. I’ll bet you get whiplash every time you see one of your doggies.

  20. LOL – Walt – You really need to slow down and take a chill pill – Read slowly and comprehend ! – As previously Stated -> I was in NY way before those Base closings. I flew out of Griffiss AFB on a C141 in the late 80’s. Picked up/delivered equipment @ Plattsburg AFB before that one closed. As for reserve MP’s -> Quote>> “The 800th Military Police Brigade is a major subordinate command of the 77th Regional Support Command, headquartered at Ft. Totten, New York,” > They were activated for Desert Storm & Operation Iraqi Freedom.
    >>As stated I stated- “Reserve MP unit” Please show us all where I say “regular, or active army M.P. Once again Walt IIIrd > “For your edification there is NO MP regular Army battalion in NYS. It’s a National Guard outfit. – – WELL Looky here >”On Oct. 17, 2005, the 91st Military Police Battalion was activated at Fort Drum, New York, to serve as the command and control of the 511th and 543rd Military Police companies. On Nov. 17, 2007, the 563rd Military Police Company was reactivated at Fort Drum, and assigned to the 91st Military Police Battalion. On May 16, 2008, the 23rd Military Police Company was transferred to Fort Drum and was assigned to the 91st Military Police Battalion. On Oct. 16, 2012, the 227th Military Police Detachment was activated and assigned to the 91st Military Police Battalion. ???
    So who knows more? Would you like their post address & Phone number ? You also forgot Still active > Ft Hamilton, Watervliet Arsenal Army base, NSA Saratoga Springs, and United States Military Academy (USMA) (West Point). Those are still active. (check google)
    BTW, WALT- I am glad you seem to know that marines can pick their assignments and duty stations. Hate to tell you but in the Army we could not. IF enlisting instead of the draft in 71, a good ASFAB score & the recruiter let you pick of the MOS’s you qualified for. What they offer now- who knows – Sensitivity training MOS’s ?

    • Ol’Sarge aka REMF. Bad news for you, REMF, those units activated in 2007 and 2012 is an RA units. Nice try. Jesus you are a glutton for punishment.

      Keep making a fool of yourself. It fits your REMF profile. ROFLMAOBT! Each of the other units you cited are NATIONAL GUARD, dumbass. ROFLMAOBTA

      For your edification, you canNOT pick your duty station in the MARINES. You go where the Marines want you to go for the “good of the service”. You bring REMF a whole brand new meaning. Upon being recruited you can pick your MOS but it will be subject to the needs of the Corps after Boot Camp.

      “Birdie, Birdie in the sky, drop a little white wash in my eye, I’m no doggie, I won’t cry.” LOL

  21. Read again Walt – 77th ARCOM stands for “Army Reserve Command” So yes there were RESERVE M.P. Battalions in NY back then “The 800th Military Police Brigade is a major subordinate command of the 77th Regional Support Command, headquartered at Ft.Totten, New York,” – They were NOT National Guard on those dates or before! Use Google Walt !
    #2 You -> “For your edification there is NO MP regular Army battalion in NYS. It’s a National Guard outfit. Seems you don’t know very much about the MP’s” – Which is why I posted those ACTIVE MP Bn at Ft Drum.
    #3 Like you – I was sent where the Army sent me – you for some odd reason think I requested my duty stations? OR job titles. Obvious, you only stayed in 4 years, vr’s my
    22 1/2. So you don’t have a clue.
    you are not only hard headed- your reading comprehension suffers greatly. Cause you’ve miss read everything I’ve stated. And you can’t comprehend when I’m being > “fa·ce·tious ;adjective – treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor;” or when I’m serious. Example – Facetious = “I am glad you seem to know that marines can pick their assignments and duty station”
    1/2 Facetious – “What they offer now- who knows – Sensitivity training MOS’s ?”
    >> cause with this current administration – It may be an Official Occupational skill now. And that’s sad.
    I’ll end with a Marine quote ! -> “Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics.” – Gen. Robert Barrow, USMC (1980)

    • Ol’e Sarge aka REMF. More horse pucky. Marines are “amateurs”? ROFLMAO. Who saved how at the Chosin Reservoir? You bailed out the Army in Nam more times than I hae fingers and toes?
      I guess you being in “logistics” would know all about “sensitivity training.”

      “Birdie, Birdie in the sky, drop a little white wash in my eye, I’m no doggie, I won’t cry.” LOL

      You are dismissed, REMF

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