ghost gun 80% arms
(JWT for TTAG)
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From the Firearms Policy Coalition . . .

Firearms Policy Coalition (FPC) issued the following statement in response to the February 14, 2022 letter from Senators Richard Blumenthal (D-CT), Robert Menendez (D-NJ), Christopher Murphy (D-CT), Cory Booker (D-NJ), and Edward Markey (D-MA) to YouTube’s CEO, Susan Wojcicki, demanding that it remove lawful content from its platform:

Government officials using their position and authority to demand that private businesses do what they constitutionally cannot is neither American nor moral. Unfortunately, this is increasingly the reality in today’s United States of America.

The self-manufacturing of arms and related speech is not only permissible under federal law, it is steeped in American tradition and protected by the Constitution. But as we’ve seen time and time again, when the law isn’t on their side, tyrants will strongarm the private sector into doing their authoritarian bidding for them.

Shocking precisely no one, some of the most notorious tyrants in Congress—Senators Blumenthal, Menendez, Murphy, Booker, and Markey—have again shown that there is nothing beneath them in their quixotic quest to red-line the Constitution and limit the rights of the People.

Their blatantly coercive letter to YouTube demanding removal of lawful content and the de-platforming of speakers must be seen for what it is: A shameful abuse of authority, and proof-positive that the Second Amendment is at least as necessary today as it was when the natural right to keep and bear arms was enshrined in the Bill of Rights.

Rather than bow to censorious, authoritarian politicians who hate the Second Amendment and the people who exercise those rights, YouTube should stand strong and live up to its mission to, among other things, “give everyone a voice.” We agree with YouTube that “people should be able to speak freely,” that “everyone should have easy, open access to information,” and that “everyone should have a chance to be discovered, build a business and succeed on their own terms, and that people—not gatekeepers—decide what’s popular.” But their actions must match their words.

FPC calls on YouTube to reject these senators’ demands and protect speech, not placate authoritarian politicians.

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    • Insert the mill deeper baby but drill drill and drill some more first. Make sure all the holes are drilled, then put the FCG in my pocket.

      • thanks for the laugh, i needed that! When i read that too my wife she found no humor in it lol.

    • And why doesn’t Rumble take off??? They “offered” Joe Rogan $100000000. TTAG is on it as are a myriad of other gun channel’s. Afraid they’ll be another Parler?

      • It’s an ease of use/habit thing. People don’t tend to entirely switch platforms easily.

        And then there’s the issue of levels of tomfuckery. Ultimately, no one is safe from what happened to Parler. Rumble and (IIRC) Gab both built their own infrastructure but of course, then government can simply pressure the ISP to disconnect you. Many people figure that they probably will after seeing exactly how GiveSendGo was abused and how the cell phone companies reacted to requests for customer data when the Democrats simply asked for it (without a warrant or subpoena) by simply giving the 1/6 Committee everything it asked for and more.

        There’s also the whole GiveSendGo *hacking angle* now too, which while technically different from the Parler scraping has the same psychological effect. Actually more since the Canadian government is openly using that data which was obtained illegally under Canadian, international and US law since it’s the fruits of a databreach. But hey, US journos are using it to harass individual people too so… fuck it, I guess?

        There are a lot of people who at this point figure one of the following two things:

        1. It’s not worth switching because whatever you switch to will just get shutdown or destroyed anyway.

        Or, 2. See #1, and this will lead to actual IRL violent conflict and it’s better to prepare for real resistance to such Fascism IRL rather than to spend time screwing around on the internet.

        Me, I’m just agreeing with Investment Hulk. These shrooms are strong AS FUCK.

        • “giving the 1/6 Committee everything it asked for and more“

          A congressional investigative committee should receive this information as a matter of course.

          Our United States Capitol was violently attacked during a joint session of Congress deliberating our presidential election under the rules of the constitution of the United States of America.

          All citizens and domestic entities should provide whatever information they have on hand to find and prosecute those involved in this attempt to overthrow our legitimately elected government.

          Its what we call ‘Patriotism’

        • “All citizens and domestic entities should provide whatever information they have on hand to find and prosecute those involved…”

          …including gov’t entities. Make it ALL public.

  1. Unfortunately, the leftist/Communist/Demoncrats have a stranglehold on the majority of media platforms. I wouldn’t count on YouTube to “stand strong” in the face of this obvious tyranny. We can hope and pray but we shouldn’t be surprised.

  2. YouTube? They’re all in for totalitarianism. Expect these videos to be removed tout de suite.

    Government coordination with private corporations to effect unconstitutional censorship is a thing now. We only have the illusion of “freedom” in the US.

    • Lol. You’re one of the 20 losers, errrrr ‘patriots’ who use those stupid sites, aren’t you Michael A. Cronagle?

  3. There seems to be this mentality that has everyone tied in knots. It is unbelievable to me that no one can do anything without YouTube. If they want to take down content then that in itself translates to no one being able to function. There is a problem there somewhere.

    • Not enough competition yet, give a few of the more free speech oriented platforms some time and growth and you will see a quick change in the behavior of the mainstream.

    • YT and similar are tools. Misuse of tools will always get you in trouble.

      There’s nothing wrong with learning new things from YT, from building guns to slapping on a TQ to calculus to how to make proper miter cuts to how to tune a CB antenna or get your HAM license or even learning about esoteric areas of science or new techniques in your preferred martial art. It’s also valuable for improving things you already know with slick shortcuts or lessons-learned. The possibilities are nearly endless.

      What matters is if you then go through enough iterations of whatever it was to commit the knowledge to memory. This is called learning, and YT is a perfectly useful tool for expanding your knowledge base, provided that’s what you’re using it for.

      No one was borning knowing virtually anything. They learned things somewhere. Where they learned things doesn’t matter, what matters is what they learned.

      There’s no reason to look down on someone because they rebuilt a differential from a YT video instead of a Haynes manual. Though, having done some of this and having some foresight it might be wise to buy a Haynes manual for every car you have even if your primary specific knowledge source is YT right now since that might not always be an option…

  4. I thought this might be coming one day. Its why in the past I’ve said that firearms companies should not be putting their ‘how to’ videos on youtube and should keep them on their own platform sites or another platform that will not bow to the gun grabbers.

    But it will probably not be long before platforms like wordpress are asked to remove gun content, or platforms like cloudflare are asked to block, or Google exerts its power and removes gun related stuff from searches, and platforms are asked to remove any gun related stuff, etc…


    Are ghost guns frequently used in violent crime?????????????????????????

    Yes, ghost guns are increasing being used in shootings across the country.

    In July 2020, an individual who was prohibited from possessing guns allegedly murdered two people in Pennsylvania using a homemade 9mm handgun.9

    In November 2019, a 16-year-old shot five of his classmates at Saugus High School in California—two of them fatally—using a homemade handgun, before fatally shooting himself.10

    In August 2019, a shooter used a homemade gun kit to build a .223-caliber firearm that he later used to fire 41 shots in 32 seconds in a bar in Dayton, Ohio, shooting 26 people and killing nine.11

    In 2017, in Northern California, a man prohibited from possessing firearms ordered kits to build AR-15-style rifles. On November 13, he initiated a series of shootings that began with fatally shooting his wife at home, followed by a rampage the next day during which he fired at multiple people in several different locations, including an elementary school, killing five people and injuring dozens more.12

    In 2013, a shooter opened fire in Santa Monica, California, shooting 100 rounds, killing five people, and injuring several others at a community college using a homemade AR-15 rifle. Reporting indicates the shooter had previously tried to purchase a firearm from a licensed gun dealer and failed a background check, potentially indicating why he opted to order parts to build a gun instead.13

    Law enforcement officials around the country are sounding the alarm about the dramatic increase in the recovery of ghost guns at crime scenes in their communities. ATF reported that approximately 10,000 ghost guns were recovered across the country in 2019.14 Ghost guns have also been illegally trafficked to Mexico.15 In addition:

    In 2019, Washington, D.C., police recovered 115 ghost guns, a 360 percent increase from 2018, when they recovered 25 ghost guns, and a 3,733 percent increase from 2017, when only three such firearms were recovered.16

    In 2019, ATF reported recovering 117 ghost guns in Maryland with almost 25 percent recovered from Baltimore alone. Ghost gun recoveries in the state then tripled in 2020.17
    According to law enforcement in Philadelphia, ghost gun recoveries in that city rose 152 percent from 2019 to 2020.18

    The special agent in charge of the ATF Los Angeles Field Division reported in January 2021 that 41 percent of the division’s cases involve ghost guns, and a May 2019 statewide analysis in California found that 30 percent of all guns recovered in connection with a crime in the state did not have serial numbers.19

    In addition, an investigation by The Trace found that ghost guns are increasingly becoming the weapon of choice for violent white supremacists and anti-government extremists.20

    In conclusion the ATF is a law unto itself and as in the past it rules at 8:00 AM and it is then a new “regulation” (disingenuous term for new law) is now the law of the land at 5:00 PM.

    No Judge Conservative or Liberal will declare the ATF ruling illegal or Unconstitutional because ghost guns are a danger to the people of the country and even the much ballyhooed Scalia decision with the usual double talk and smoke and mirrors declared “The Courts had the right to regulate firearms” (slick disingenuous term for ban or restrict firearms).

    In conclusion your right to own a weapon rests with the rulings of the courts, not the Constitution, and history has proven this reality like it or not.

    No sane person would want ghost guns legal and no other civilized nation tolerates them.

    • dacain;

      once again you fail to grasp the context and meaning of your own key words, those words being “LUNATICS AND CRIMINALS”.

      • That and still sorting how many confiscated “ghost guns” are just stolen guns with obliterated serial plates. Either way don’t care all guns are fine it’s assholes shooting people that don’t deserve shooting that are the problem and no government solution will be effective let alone acceptable to anyone who values liberty.

      • I do indeed Booger Brain. My way cuts way down on lunatics and criminals getting guns. Your way hands them all the firepower they could ever want and gives them your blessing.

        • Then o’ genius of the masses why have you not offered your solution to the police and political powers that be?

        • Tooling up finds a way and your list just proved that. China and N. Korea got the bomb and we did not want that either. You can buy a sword online for under 500 USD that would be the envy of kings 1,000 years ago. There is no shortage of gun prohibition in London and yet it has quite a few homicides. And then there are the vans of peace all over Europe . . . Technology is Karma’s nastier, and more violent prone cousin. It enables groups and individuals to do really bad things and really good things. You can try to stop but is has time and time again found a way.

        • Sorry D. Your way only makes life safer for criminals and lunatics. Nothing you are demanding will prevent a single criminal getting a weapon. Nor will it prevent a criminal or nut case from doing something horrible. All it will do is keep those who are no threat to anyone except, possibly, the criminals or lunatics from being able to defend themselves.

        • Dacian – your way stops someone who wants to misuse a firearm and can’t buy one legally to build his own – legally.
          I think most of the people with this bent are not inspired to make a gun legally, when it is much easier and cheaper to buy one on the street. If he wants to grind down the serial number, it is now his choice, but buying a firearm with a serial number(even if it is stolen), does not stop someone from using the firearm, wiping prints off and re selling it to someone else(that doesn’t know him). Ballistics will tell if the firearm was used in a crime or 10, but not who did the deed.

    • oh, ok. so none of these would have happened if they hadn’t had to build their own?
      in a country with 400million (you know whats) these five (you know whats) would not have been able to obtain one (what)?

      • Outlawing Ghost guns is only one of many steps necessary. Any intelligent person knows that it alone is not a panacea. Safe storage laws and Universal Background Checks and better vetting are also needed. This is how civilized nations have done things for decades and history has proven they work and work well as their homicides and gun crime are minuscule compared to ours.

        • The devil is in the details.

          Broad visions are one thing. Getting it to level where it is legislative action is another.

        • You mean like England where a citizen had to use a Narwhal tusk to fend off a knife wielding terrorist? Or Germany where the citizens are unarmed victims of Turks, Serbs and Iraqi’s.
          Have you actually lived in any of those civilized countries you yammer on about? Or have you only read the anti gun propaganda?

        • And then the authorities can come and collect them from you. Better off having legacy firearms(and home built) that don’t have paper connecting them to you.
          Keep them somewhere safe and have them in case there is a BLM moment down the street or a Putin surprise.

    • It is senseless and illogical to put forth the effort of responding to Leftist/Communist rhetoric. One’s time is better spent focusing and strengthening the 2nd Amendment via participation in local politics and alternative media outlets.

      Ignore the vulgarity and ignorance of such individuals and focus your attention on building a better ghost gun and/or developing a more potent load for same.

  6. Censor any information that threatens the regime.
    Erase any history that shows the regime in a bad light.
    Stigmatize anyone who speaks ill of the regime.
    Refuse to engage in dialog with anyone who holds ideas contrary to the regimes.
    Seize the assets of anyone speaking against the regime.

    ♪♪♪And I’m proud to be an American where at least I know I’m free…♪♪♪

  7. I hope You Tube doesn’t take down Dick’s Sporting Goods instructional video on how to role a bowling ball.

  8. Senators Richard Blumenthal (D-CT), Robert Menendez (D-NJ), Christopher Murphy (D-CT), Cory Booker (D-NJ), and Edward Markey (D-MA) – with not a total of 2 wits among the coven if they were spotted 3x dacians.

  9. Hey senators ….

    Nation wide in 2021 (month ending Sept 2021 reporting period starting Sept 2020) – 99,543 reported deaths due to drug overdose, and according to the CDC that’s under reported due to incomplete data. 78,388 of those were confirmed suicides using the drug overdose method. 95.4% of those drug overdose suicide people also had access to a firearm, but used drug overdose.

    Are you going to bully YouTube into removing the “how to commit suicide” tips videos too?

    • In the space of one hour, after watching the “how to commit suicide” tips videos on you tube, over 23 people used those tips to commit suicide. Zero used a firearm. Half were by hanging, the rest by helium and drug overdose and jumping from height.

    • to Booger Brain

      quote————Are you going to bully YouTube into removing the “how to commit suicide” tips videos too?————-quote

      Sane people certainly would demand social media outlaw such video’s.

  10. Its a pretty important thing that theses senators do not get away with this. There efforts, under the color of the U.S. Congress representatives, is a direct attempt by government to infringe the first and second amendments.

    Its not only important to the gun community, it affects everyone. If the government can censor in this manner the first amendment in this case it sets precedent for them to do it again for any speech they don’t like.

    They are trying to do it by pointing out youtube rules in its community guidelines, but still its a direct attempt by government to infringe the first and second amendments.

    • This was better left to YouTube alone. YouTube for years has welcomed this type of material, especially from companies, despite their overly broad rules. Its been fine with them all this time.

  11. NYPD Commissioner Keechant L. Sewell said: “Convicted previously in a firearms possession case, Eric Lesane now faces federal indictment for allegedly amassing a stockpile of weapons — including an untraceable ghost gun — while on supervised release. Our NYPD investigators, working with our partners and prosecutors in the United States Attorney’s Office, will never stop pursuing these kinds of cases in our continuing effort to eradicate gun violence in New York.”

  12. Loc Dinh Phan, 52, is charged in Olmsted County District with felony possession of any type of ammunition/firearm by an ineligible person, felony drug possession and gross misdemeanor possession of ammunition/firearm by a person who has been committed mentally ill.

    Inside a backpack police said Phan was using as a pillow, officers found a loaded handgun and ammunition, according to the criminal complaint. The 9 mm polymer80 handgun did not have a serial number and was described by Rochester police Capt. Casey Moilanen as a “ghost gun.”

  13. Santa Rosa police confiscated a “ghost gun” and arrested two suspects Tuesday afternoon while investigating an armed person with a group of teenagers.

    Officers searched the car and found a loaded 9-millimeter handgun in a rear passenger compartment. It was identified as a “ghost gun” because it did not have a serial number.

  14. CHP officers initiated an enforcement stop after witnessing the driver of a 2000 Toyota 4Runner committing traffic violations after midnight, according to Officer Josh Greengard, a spokesman for the CHP Newhall-area Office.

    “During the investigation, officers recovered two non-serialized ‘ghost guns,’” Greengard said. “They also located magazines, materials, molds used to make ghost guns and illegal drugs.”

  15. @Ghostgun who ever

    You r posting all this why?

    Big deal. You notice the common thread?

    Criminals, that’s whats common.

    Law abiding people who want to exercise their 2A rights should not be penalized because a criminal acted a fool.

    Z serial number on a gun or not on a gun does not stop a criminal. Not being able to buy a gun does not stop a criminal. Is short restricting rights of law abiding citizens does nothing to stop a criminal.

    Criminsls use cars to drive to their crimes, should all law abiding people who own cars suffer more government restrictions because of that?

    • Hahaha that’s laugh. Stolen cars stolen plates. Criminals don’t obey the law. Any laws if they can avoid it. Piss off

      • Following your argument, there shouldn’t be any laws because criminals won’t follow them.

        You don’t seem to understand the purpose of law.

        • You should punish criminals for their actions.

          Punishing the law abiding for the actions of criminals makes as much sense as a farmer beating his dog because a fox got into the henhouse.

        • SC, well it is kinda the dogs job to keep the fox out of the hen house. Not much use in having a dog just lay there and watch a fox eat chickens.
          I dont know as I’d beat the dog tho unless it was with a fox hide, get the dog so pissed off with it that the next fox come along the dog would go kill crazy.

        • @ Ghost Gun BS

          You don’t seem to understand the purpose of law.

          The purpose of laws for crime is not to prevent crime but rather to punish those who commit crime and deter those who have not yet committed a crime. But if a person decides to commit a crime, the law does nothing to stop them from doing that.

          A law does no good to stop or prevent crime if the people that commit the crimes ignore there are penalties for committing the crime.

          The enforcement existence of a criminal law depends entirely upon the majority of people being law abiding. The more people who are law abiding the more people obey the law and don’t commit crimes. In other words, the law is continually applied and enforced indirectly against law abiding by prohibition by its existence based upon the moral will of the law abiding to obey the law – but its only applied and enforced against the criminal if they get caught for committing their crime.

          There has never been even one in progress crime stopped by a law being in existence.

          There has never been one in progress crime victim saved from harm by a law being in existence.

          A serial number on a gun or not, or a law for such, does nothing to stop a criminal from committing a crime. And it does nothing to a criminal during the crime, or after committing a crime unless they get caught. But it does something all the time to the law abiding because of its existence – it places onerous and burdensome government requirements on the law abiding trying to exercise the second amendment.

          When we talk of ghost guns, and in relation to crime, its not true that all ghost guns are 80% lower kits. Despite the crap spewed about ghost guns, what it really means is a gun without a serial number or has had the serial number obliterated or change or removed or obscured in some manner.

          In the senators letter it states “Ghost guns are unserialized firearms that anyone can get their hands on—without a background check—and put together themselves with a 3D-printer or a do-it-yourself gun-making kit purchased from an unlicensed seller.” ” As a result, ghost guns have become the weapon of choice for gun traffickers and convicted felons as well as domestic violent extremists and foreign terrorists.” > that is a lie also

          Why are those 100% lies? Well, lets put them together as they are stated to be in the letter with first their definition of ‘ghost gun’ tied to their existence effect:

          “Ghost guns are unserialized firearms that anyone can get their hands on—without a background check—and put together themselves with a 3D-printer or a do-it-yourself gun-making kit purchased from an unlicensed seller. As a result, ghost guns have become the weapon of choice for gun traffickers and convicted felons as well as domestic violent extremists and foreign terrorists.” > that is 100% lie.

          in the real world less than .03% of guns used by gun traffickers and convicted felons as well as domestic violent extremists and foreign terrorists are “put together themselves with a 3D-printer or a do-it-yourself gun-making kit purchased from an unlicensed seller.”

          1. Ghost guns are not only “3D-printer or a do-it-yourself gun-making kit” The vast majority of ‘ghost guns’ are commercially manufactured guns that have had the serial numbers obliterated or change or removed or obscured in some manner.

          2. The majority of guns used by gun traffickers and convicted felons are guns that have been stolen and had the serial numbers obliterated or change or removed or obscured in some manner.

          The senators move here is a clear means of attempted government infringement on the first and second amendments and they are doing to to capitalize on the public misunderstanding of what ghost guns are for the goal of enacting laws which in the end do nothing against crime but is another step in populace disarmament methodology.

          But lest go back to cars for a minute. IF your self-made car did not have a VIN number would you still be able to drive the car? Well, on your private property you would be able to drive the car without a VIN number, on the public roads you would need a vin number TO BE OBEYING THE LAW but you are law abiding so you don’t drive it on the public roads – but if your non-vin number car were stolen did the lack of a vin number stop the car from being stolen and driven away on the public roads? – the moral of the story is, like VIN numbers – serial number requirements on guns only place the burden on the law abiding, and do nothing to stop the criminal (even if the gun were made from 3D printer or a kit).

        • @ Ghost Gun BS

          In addition to my other reply above about the law:

          If there is no law against something there is no crime for doing that something.

          Laws, in the aspect of creation, create ‘crime’.

          Taking a look at U.S. history, lets use prohibition as an example.

          Prohibition laws came about because anti-alcohol groups wanted alcohol outlawed so they got some politicians to create a law. One day alcohol was legal if you could legally use alcohol, the next day there was a law outlawing it and over night millions of law abiding people became criminals. But the law did nothing to stop what had suddenly became a crime from happening.

          Well, we are in the same basic situation today. Today, in context with self-made firearms (incorrectly referred to as also ghost guns) its legal to make and posses if you can legally posess a firearm. There are anti-gun groups (democrat politicians and others) want ‘ghost guns’ (and other guns) outlawed (banned and made illegal).

          As for the term ‘Ghost Gun’ – its kinda important to note that the term actually only refers to guns “without” serial numbers that are immediately traceable AND HAVE BEEN USED ILLEGALLY OR IN POSSESSION OF A PERSON NOT LEGALLY ABLE TO POSSES A GUN. It does not actually refer to kit or self-manufactured guns self-made (assembled) by a person who is legally able to posses a gun. However, the democrats and anti-gun groups have blurred the distinction so that all guns without serial numbers that are kit guns are ‘ghost guns’ in order to demonize law abiding gun owners of any gun (serial numbered or not – guilt by association concept) and make them the ‘enemy’ aligning them with criminals, gun traffickers, and terrorists and ‘right wing extremists’. Imagine that, 60% of the U.S. population (are law abiding gun owners) is, according to democrat and anti-gun groups, the ‘enemy’ aligned with criminals, gun traffickers, and terrorists and ‘right wing extremists’. Then, with a set precedent for rights infringement in the name of ‘safety/security’ (like all fascists/tyranny/dictatorships start) its only a short hop-skip-jump to deciding that the remaining 40% of the population are also the ‘enemy’.

          Well, Ghost Gun BS, you sure don’t like the Constitution very much do you. You probably live next door to dacian, he also hates the Constitution, has very little understanding of how things actually work, and wants us to live under tyranny. Its almost like you and dacian are the same person.

        • Oh and another thing, this term “unlicensed seller” the senators use.

          Not all sales or manufacturer of gun related stuff requires a license.

          In context with the senators 3D printed and kit guns (80% kits, not complete guns is what this kits guns thing means here as the senators are specifically targeting 80% kits in their youtube stuff) – there is no firearms related license required for those – thus it is also not true that 3D printed and kit guns are purchased from “unlicensed seller”.

          However, the term is used disingenuously because it can be interpreted to mean a seller is simply unlicensed because there is no requirement for a license thus an “unlicensed seller”. The term is used, in context with their definition, to add a false seriousness to imply there is a license required thus illegal activity being conducted by law abiding gun owners of the 80% lower kit company in the video.

          Anyway, I point this out because its a good example of the disingenuous deception wording tricks being played here.

  16. We should encourage YouTube to ban everything that could be considered controversial, in order to expedite YouTube’s demise.

  17. IMHO, at this point if you want to avoid the banhammer you’re going to have to get away from DFS and move to P2P or a similar type of sharing platform.

    A Napster type of system using an updated form of something like PingTool for on-the-fly indexing could be useful but it would have to be encrypted to avoid a fate similar to Napster. Of course then it would be used to share files that few find moral (child porn for example) and become a major target of .gov and… meet the same/a similar fate as Napster did.

    Ultimately the tech solutions here will just buy time. The answer is a fundamental change in our government. Otherwise the government will just play whack-a-mole with you using your own money to fund the game and you’ll never stay ahead of them for long.

    I mean, unless you’re one of those people who actually believes that a VPN or Tor keep you safe from the government once they’ve really taken an interest in you. That sounds cool and shit to the PC-Mag crowd but it’s mostly marketing hype. All of it can be broken if .gov cares enough to do it. Generally they don’t unless you’re a criminal. But these days .gov openly states that saying things that are true, but which are disapproved of, makes you a literal terrorist so…

  18. Ghost guns can be made from materials obtained at a hardware or plumbing supply store, and have the added benefit of being fully automatic, see Phillip Luty. So much for the kits. Next we need to register/outlaw drill presses, metal brakes, mills and lathes. For the children don’tcha know.

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