America’s Great Expansion of Firearm Carry Rights: How We Got Here

Luby's Cafeteria massacre shooting

Police officers gather outside Luby’s Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, at the scene where a gunman killed 23 people including himself. (AP Photo/Rick McFarland, File)

I recently had a discussion with a well-educated friend. She’s articulate, opinionated and unafraid to share her perspectives. She believes the world would be better off without guns. She is also of the opinion that an individual should have to prove they have the right to carry a gun (“may issue”), rather than the putting the onus on the state to prove that an individual should not have that right (“shall issue”).

We agreed to disagree. But that got me to thinking, how did we get here?

When I was growing up in Louisiana, gun permits were a rare thing. To get a permit to carry a gun in his car, my dad had to go to the sheriff’s office and apply to become an auxiliary deputy sheriff. Otherwise, a citizen wishing to carry a handgun outside of his home was SOL. And back then, owning a handgun automatically placed you under suspicion. No doubt my African American friends had an even tougher time of it.

Fast-forward to today, and handgun laws have done a 180. In my adopted home state of Texas, the advent of new, more “lenient” conceal carry laws was met with fear and loathing by their opponents. They predicted a return to the Wild West, with armed citizens ready, willing and apt to go all John Wayne on anybody who crossed them.

Of course, that didn’t happen. In fact, statistical analysis of gun-related injuries and deaths in states that have conceal carry laws show that gun violence has decreased. Citizens that conceal carry are statistically unlikely to perpetrate gun crimes. As gun rights have expanded and hurdles to carry have been knocked down, the violent crime rate has fallen to new lows (until 2020’s civil unrest).

And yet antipathy remains. One of the many aspects of the Biden gun control agenda is to incent states to set up their hown gun licensing requirements (think Illinois), requiring government permission just to buy a firearm.

“You would want to carry your gun into this restaurant?” my anti-gun amiga demanded. “What if everybody in here had guns? Don’t you think there’d be trouble? Don’t you think that some of the people in here have no business having guns?”

Interesting questions all. And they share that Louisiana sheriff’s underlying supposition: if you’re carrying, you’re up to no good. They also assume that people are idiots (hard to argue that one sometimes, but still), and that any idiot can qualify for a concealed handgun license.

In point of fact, The Lone Star State performs background checks (extensive background checks, actually) on Concealed Handgun (CHL) applicants, as do most states that issue permits.

right to carry timeline map shall issue

By Jeff Dege – http://www.gun-nuttery.com/rtc.php, CC BY-SA 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=3167986

Anyway, to understand how and why things changed, at least here in Texas, we have to go back to a sleepy little town called Killeen, one October day in 1991.

It was lunchtime. The town’s cafeteria was a bustling place. In the twinkling of an eye, a pickup truck crashed through the plate glass windows and came to rest inside the restaurant. A local vet ran to the driver’s door, thinking that the driver must have passed out, had a heart attack, or was otherwise injured. No such luck. The vet was shot dead where he stood.

Exiting his Ford Ranger pickup, George Jo Hennard, Jr. exclaimed, “This is what Bell County did to me!” Walking calmly through the restaurant, Hennard put his guns (a GLOCK 17 and a Ruger P89) to the bodies or foreheads of the Luby’s patrons and pulled the trigger.

A loner who often told anyone who would listen, “One day they would all see what I’m was capable of,” Hennard reloaded several times. He targeted women over men (he’d earlier been accused of stalking a neighbor and her two daughters). The total carnage: 23 people murdered, 20 more wounded.

The police arrived, chasing Hennard into a bathroom where they wounded him. Hennard then put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger.

Why did he do it? Nobody knows. What we do know: a young woman, Suzanna Hupp, owned a handgun. But she’d left it just a couple of dozen feet away, in her car, as she dined with her parents.

Her father charged Hennard during the massacre…and died trying to stop him. Hupp’s mother was shot and killed. Hupp was unable to do anything to stop Hennard. She was obeying the gun laws in effect at the time and wasn’t carrying her gun.

Texas law then held that it was illegal to carry a concealed handgun unless you were a member of law enforcement. Hupp later stated that she regretted that she’d obeyed the law and left her gun in the car. If she’d had it in her purse, she might have been able to shoot Hennard before he murdered so many in cold blood.

As a result of that tragedy, the Texas Legislature passed a law known as “Shall Issue,” which puts the burden on law enforcement/government to prove why a person shouldn’t carry a gun, rather than on the individual to prove they deserve that right. Then-Texas Governor George W. Bush signed the bill into law. Suzanna Hupp was later elected to the state Legislature and served six terms.

Suzanna Gratia Hupp luby's shooting

Rep. Suzanna Gratia Hupp, R-Kempner (AP Photo/Harry Cabluck, File)

So my friend’s question about carrying in a restaurant was more appropriate than she could have guessed.

Thankfully, I’ve never had an experience with gun violence as horrific as the patrons of Luby’s did that fateful day in October of 1991. But the spree killing — and Hupp’s advocacy — spurred the legislature to change the law to allow responsible citizens to carry concealed weapons.

Do I think it’s essential to carry concealed weapons while dining? Nope. But if someone came into the restaurant, guns a-blazing, aiming to kill strangers and make a name for themselves, I would hope that somebody in the joint had a permit, and the good sense to carry the day.

 

This article was originally published here in 2010. 

comments

  1. avatar Darkman says:

    Pro 2A Votes Matter…Having a President who appoints judges with Originalist views on the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

    1. avatar Mark says:

      Get this message out beyond Trump’s base before too late.

    2. avatar Innocent Bystander says:

      The Democratic Party has raised more than $500 million dollars for this election than the Republican Party. Everyone on this site needs to donate hundreds if not thousands to the Republican Party NOW. The big Republican donors are not stepping up and donating their money. If we lose our gun rights please don’t be crying on this site. It’s your own fault. Send you money NOW.

  2. avatar Manse Jolly says:

    A thousand times NO!

    Me and min are not going to just roll over and die because of some Bull$hit rules/Laws.

    This is the mindset and non-critical, unrealistic thinking of the typical anti-gun person.

    The police can write the report ~when~ they get there.

  3. avatar LampOfDiogenes says:

    Gosh, I’m sorry – I must have been asleep during the class where they taught me that it was actually the “Bill of Needs”, not the “Bill of Rights”. My bad.

    I can make a functional firearm with $25 and a 10 minute visit to Home Depot. I can make functional napalm and explosives from crap I can buy at Home Depot or the local garden supply store.

    Leftist/Progressive: “I’m going to prevent you from owning dangerous weapons!”

    Me: “Bitch, I AM the ‘dangerous weapon’! Suck a fat d***!”

    1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      “She is also of the opinion that an individual should have to prove they have the right to carry a gun ”

      The uneducated brain dead elitist witch,evidently is unaware that it is everyones natural right by way of being born to self defense.
      The 2 nd. amendment just states what is obvious to all but the braindead Leftards

    2. avatar Miner49er says:

      Interesting comment, full of passion and conviction, a real call to action!

      Sort of like this:

      “In another group message, someone shared a social media post that included a news article about Whitmer.
      “B*tch needs to go ASAP boys,” someone replies.”

      There are many ways to lose your gun rights, these gentlemen have all lost theirs for life because of their intemperate attitude.

      1. avatar James Campbell says:

        So by your logic, anyone posting a comment like “Trump needs to go dems”, is making a DIRECT death threat against the POTUS.
        Quit while you’re behind leftard.
        TTAG commenters be like…….
        https://youtu.be/2q35PgSXhKg
        ……when they read comments from whiner.
        Trump/Pence 2020

        1. avatar Miner49er says:

          Lamprey, I was struck by the similarity between your comment and the domestic terrorist’s comments regarding the governor.

          “Me: “Bitch, I AM the ‘dangerous weapon’! Suck a fat d***!”

          And I have to admit, your call for sexual violence is troubling, and really kind of creepy.

      2. avatar James Campbell says:

        Why no comment about the Twitter Sr Manager who Tweeted that Trump should “DIE IN A FIRE”?
        That’s just 1st A protected speech, right whiner?
        Trump/Pence 2020.

        1. avatar Miner49er says:

          Oh, was he plotting to kidnap and murder Trump?

          Because these terrorists certainly were.

  4. avatar strych9 says:

    When you take the mystique out of something people are, generally, more inclined to treat the item with proper respect.

    And when people know that there are actually real,, significant consequences for their actions, including dying, they’re less apt to fuck around which means the situations that could get out of hand rather easily suddenly don’t tend to go that far.

    1. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

      “When you take the mystique out of something people are, generally, more inclined to treat the item with proper respect.”

      It was kind of amusing reading the newspaper’s ‘Letters to the Editor’ back in 1987 here in Florida when ‘shall issue’ was first proposed.

      “The sky is falling! The sky is falling!” was the common theme. Claims that parking lot disputes were going to turn into gun battles. It was literally “Streets running with rivers of blood” kind of stuff.

      But as you adroitly pointed out, when real consequences were on the line, folks tend to behave.

      A big area were are failing in is pointing out how vanishingly rare it is when lawful concealed carriers do bad things with their firearms. The FBI could be of real help in this department, laying out some hard data, proving our point…

      1. avatar Jonathan-Houston says:

        And what point would that prove? That a self-selected subgroup of the population that skews older, whiter and wealthier than the general population, that is humble enough to submit to the somewhat humiliating process of licensing class, rudimentary proficiency qualification, and fingerprinting like a common criminal, and that is pre-screened and regularly re-screened for criminal record as a condition of licensed carrying, is on average less likely to commit violent crimes than the population as a whole? Duh. If anything, the antis could take that and argue that licensing works. Heck, more stringent licensing to carry, or even to own, might work even better, they might say.

        The controversy enters when one extrapolates from the experience of licensed carriers and applies that expected outcome to any potential carrier, as with constitutional carry. The POTG can’t credibly make that case, and lack an answer when the antis challenge them on that point.

        1. avatar strych9 says:

          From the point of view of being technically correct and using solely data-driven arguments backed by hard facts the debate you suggest would be knotty and quite frankly I don’t care to do the research on the parts of it where I know the data exists or attempt to account for the places where the data is non-existent or not public.

          However, rhetorically the argument you suggest is fertile ground to let the antis walk right into a metaphorical buzzsaw. The antis don’t play this game fair, so why should we?

          On the whole fingerprinting/BGC thing simply make the comparison to police, who actually are worse than CCW carriers.

          On age point out that while young people are statistically more likely to engage in violent crime a LCpl of the same age is not. This strongly suggests that there isn’t something innate about youth that causes violent crime or disrespectful behavior but rather the issue is rooted in the way the person is raised. Clearly there is something wrong with “the system” where these young people just can’t get ahead on exercising their rights.

          When it comes to the group being “…older, whiter and wealthier…”, well duh ThAt’S ‘cAuSe oF Da sYstEmiC raCiSm! Obviously the question is not why things skew this way, it’s why the fuck are the antis supporting a racist system that only allows old white dudes with money to get ahead? Obviously this is already disadvantaging women, POC, the youth, poor etc. Would we accept this with voting? Free speech? Fair trials? I think not. (Oh, we do accept this with fair trials? Yeah, well obviously that’s a problem. Thanks for bringing up yet another wrong that we need to right in this country one that would be easier to right if young, non-whites had more power which they can get by legally owning firearms.)

          Pull an Alinsky on these people. Make them live up to their own standards. Use the cause(s) du jour that their own side supports against them. They’re going to do it to you and turnabout is fair play. Not only that, the arguments are emo because that’s what affects the target audience, of which neither you nor the anti is a member.

          It’s almost like all that shit I’ve been saying for years all ties together.

        2. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

          “Obviously the question is not why things skew this way, it’s why the fuck are the antis supporting a racist system that only allows old white dudes with money to get ahead?”

          ***Applause***.

          Alinsky their asses…

        3. avatar Umm . . . says:

          Jonathan-Houston,
          Strych9 is being far too kind. No speculation, and little extrapolation, is required. The author not only laid out the facts / case for you in the article; he even provided a pretty map. Did your computer freeze on “2000”?

          It’s not just that the sky didn’t fall when states let some people jump through hoops for permits. It also didn’t fall in states where hoop-jumping is not required (five minutes, a driver’s license, and a check for my first permit). It didn’t fall in the numerous states where constitutional carry is not speculation, but reality, and (as others have pointed out) states where “Old West”-style open carry is legal have yet to break out in gunfights.

    2. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

      “no mystique, big mistake.”

  5. avatar George Washington says:

    It would be a better world without guns, but that toothpaste is already out of the tube….
    So, its not a perfect world and maniacs are gonna maniac….

    Edc likes there’s no tomorrow!!!
    Or like you’re preparing for battle… the world is an EXTREMELY dangerous place!

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      Is London, England better because they’ve eradicate nearly all guns there? The answer is an emphatic no. Weapons of choice merely migrated to knives, which are now banned, and then to any sharp implement, then to hammers, and there have even been attacks with battery acid. Take everything away, and Nature continues to supply rocks and sharp sticks.

      The world will always have the heart of Man, regardless of the tool some use to carry out their evil desires against others. As for me, I will have my gun within reach to protect myself and my wife from them.

    2. avatar napresto says:

      From the article: “What if everybody in here had guns? Don’t you think there’d be trouble?”

      By this logic, every shooting range in America should have daily multiple homicide incidents, and yet…

      Fact is, some maniacs use guns, but guns don’t create maniacs. The evil monsters who commit violence with guns would be just as happy to use knives, explosives, bats, bricks, fire – wait, how did I get onto the subject of ANTIFA and the Democrats?

      1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

        wait, how did I get onto the subject of ANTIFA and the Democrats?

        Not to worry, it’s just a natural progression since there is such a close correlation of dumb shit and the aforementioned groups. It’s really a very common occurrence, happens all the time…

      2. avatar hawkeye says:

        “…bats, bricks, fire – wait, how did I get onto the subject of ANTIFA and the Democrats?”

        That right there is a great line.

        1. avatar napresto says:

          I aim to please!

    3. avatar Someone says:

      “It would be a better world without guns…”
      No it wouldn’t. There was a time of world without firearms. It was not nice or peaceful. It was time when strong and well trained men could do anything to the regular people (using pointy sticks, axes and very long knives) without consequences. Without guns and their equalizing effects, we would still live in feudal society.

      1. avatar CharlieKing1 says:

        @Someone says- “Without guns and their equalizing effects, we would still live in feudal society.”

        So true, this statement brings to mind when the Samurai ruled feudal Japan. Kind of a one sided fight one only one side carried the sword…

    4. avatar Prndll says:

      “It would be a better world without guns…”

      Most of our technology has it’s origin in guns. Have you ever noticed that rockets are just very big bullets? Without rockets and the space age that came with them, we would not even have cell phones. There are all kinds of things but the list goes on and on.

      1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

        we would not even have cell phones.

        And that would be a BAD thing?

        1. avatar Prndll says:

          A big chunk of our medical knowledge is there because of firearms aswell. We owe a large portion of engineering to it too (structural, chemical, and metallurgical). That’s not to mention geology and mining. Then of course there is hunting. Humans are carnivores.

        2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Then of course there is hunting. Humans are carnivores.

          Man has hunted since he came into existence, what does a “cellphone” have to do with it?…

        3. avatar Prndll says:

          There is a great deal of our current existence on this planet that is there as a result of firearms. We would still have computers but they wouldn’t be anything like we currently possess. We would still have medicine but nothing as good as the world currently uses. We could still hunt but nothing to the current degree of efficiency.

          Firearms have absolutely been part of the process of human advancement that has given surgical procision and refinement in our technology. Without them, we would be working in a world comparable to the dark ages.

          We just need to advance our humanity as we have with our technology.

        4. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Firearms have absolutely been part of the process of human advancement that has given surgical procision and refinement in our technology. Without them,

          I don’t need history lessons on the influences of human development, my only question is WHY the fuck NO Cellphones would be a BAD thing… In my opinion the cellphone is singularly responsible for the greatest social regression of human development in history.. Ever see two kids texting one another while sitting side by side rather than engaging in face to face to face conversation?…

        5. avatar Prndll says:

          I won’t deny the fact that cellphones have played a major factor in human regression. But that has been mainly due to the companies that have been producing and controlling them. Like most tech companies, it’s their liberal agendas that screw it all up. The technology itself behind the cell phone is actually a very good thing.

          Cell technology would not exist and/or be as useful as it is without satellites. Sat systems would not exist without the rockets to get them in orbit. The rockets would not exist without bullets. And that would not exist without guns.

          Progression of human advancement

          When history is not considered, this becomes impossible to understand.

        6. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          The rockets would not exist without bullets. And that would not exist without guns.

          You keep reiterating that line like you are talking to a three year old.. I NEVER disputed the fact that guns AND bullets were in part responsible for a number of technological advances NOR will I ever argue against the NEED for firearms in the world today.. ALL I questioned was whether or not a fucking CELLPHONE was that great of a benefit to society NOT how it functions or why it would not be possible WITHOUT the rockets that were ultimately derived from the invention of gun powder (not bullets), in 228 the Ancient Chinese used arrows which were lit with fire to defend an area of the country from intruders. This created a new word which literally meant fire arrow; this is the same word in Chinese for rocket… they also developed canons, mortars, flame-throwers and grenades while Europeans were still killing each other with sticks and stones (so to speak) so giving credit where it’s due the “rocket” actually superseded the “bullet” by several hundred years….

          Progression of human advancement??

          When history is not considered, this becomes impossible to understand.

        7. avatar Miner49er says:

          You are absolutely correct, the little yellow men of China were creating a complex civilization while the Europeans were still fighting with sticks and stones.

          Well so much for the idea that white Europeans created civilization, seems they were Johnny come lately.

      2. avatar Prndll says:

        If you will relax a little…I answered that question.

        As to the length of time between innovations…that is a minor point. I’m talking about the idea that one leads to the other. Thereby making the question as to wether or not the world would be better without guns is answered with no.

  6. avatar Ropingdown says:

    People began to realize, in answer to the question “What if everybody in here had guns? Don’t you think there’d be trouble? Don’t you think that some of the people in here have no business having guns?” –that the people in there who have no business having guns…are the ones who did have them. The old laws represented the old world of political bosses, of governors writing special letters for the in-crowd, donors, etc. As information became more widely available, understanding grew.

  7. avatar Virgil Caldwell says:

    Good story. A bit more to the story. The right to carry movement was a grassroots movement and a reply to the policies of democratic legislators– I have personal experience dating back to the 1970– until we managed to make freedom ring and have these shall issue permits for perhaps a hundred years the only folks that had permits—were–
    In the north, Chicago, New Jersey, and New York City, permits were generally issued by judges. Only mobsters had these permits. Or movie stars. That tells you something. In the south only the well heeled and politically connected had these permits. No one rose up in the government on this movement- it was grass roots and we forced in on them and they had to do this for us– somewhat willingly in the south for the most part.
    Freedom rang and it wasnt always like it is today.

    1. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

      “In the south only the well heeled and politically connected had these permits.”

      Yeah, but practically-speaking, the only time carry without a permit was prosecuted in the deep south was if *cough* “the wrong people” *cough* were caught doing it. Depending where you were, cops had quite a bit of leeway in who they chose to arrest…

      1. avatar jwm says:

        I saw this first hand in WV and In CA in the 60’s and into the 70s. Not just about guns. In CA I got pulled over for the famous ‘open container’ violation. I was caught red handed. I had to pour my beer out, all of it, but I was allowed to continue on without a ticket or arrest. This was more or less sop if you were white and didn’t act the fool when the cops pulled you over.

        I’ve skated on gun charges in both states. The only reason I can guess is that I was white and didn’t act the fool when I was busted.

        The last time was here in CA about 10 years or so ago. Our neighborhood had undergone a series of home invasions. I was out on the street coming back from a local shop when a cop pulled up and confronted me on the sidewalk. He asked was I carrying a gun. I did not lie or make up any stories. Yes, I was. After a brief talk and id check he let me and my unpermitted gun go.

        I have other stories to tell. But they have a central theme. Don’t be a jerk when the cops show up and be white.

        1. avatar Miner49er says:

          Thanks for your honest post, my experiences are congruent with yours as well.

          When the armed agents of the authorities allow you to break the law without punishment because you are white, this is the very definition of systemic racism.

          The natural result of this is a higher conviction rate for minorities, and a higher incarceration rate for minorities.

          This is why the protests occur, many minorities feel they have not received equal justice under the law.

        2. avatar Prndll says:

          @Miner49er
          “ When the armed agents of the authorities allow you to break the law without punishment because you are white, this is the very definition of systemic racism.”

          On the basis of race…
          Black, white, other…all the same

          Not acting a fool plays a role in this too.

        3. avatar jwm says:

          I’ve always been honest, miner. When I tell you your antifa darlings are simply fascists and you’re a fool I’m still being honest.

          You’re very much helping Trump get a second term. How’s that for honesty?

  8. avatar CTstooge says:

    Nice map. Good perspective.

  9. avatar Debbie W. says:

    To get what they want sicko Gun Control Zealots are more than happy to leave you and yours for the wolves.

    TRUMP/PENCE 2020.

    1. avatar PMinFl says:

      Them damned lint lickers !

  10. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    As the supposed supreme law of the land calls for Constitutional carry for all. Now to force all the remaining of the several states that in order to attain statehood signed on to the Constitution,to uphold that debt to the rest of the nation.

  11. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    “Do I think it’s essential to carry concealed weapons while dining? Nope.“

    I’m not going to tell the author he was wrong in 2010 or today, but I hope you don’t need it when you don’t have it.

    1. avatar Montana Actual says:

      I’ll tell him for you.

      Those people accosted by BLM/ANTIFA/whateverthefucktheyare terrorists at dinner thought so too.

      1. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

        Oh, *please*. Having an Antifa or BLM asshole sit down at your restaurant table un-invited and drinking your beer was *not* a justification to draw.

        You might have *really* wanted to draw, but it flat wasn’t justified. And did you stop to consider that maybe they were *hoping* you would draw, so they could get it on video? To make us look as bad as they were?

        Cripes…

        1. avatar Montana Actual says:

          No fucking shit. Do you think maybe they do that to easy targets? So your one scenario where they sit down and FORCE you to leave does not justify use of force, but what about the one where they backed people into a corner and started breaking shit and throwing things around them? That would have been justifiable. Also, when it boils down to it, as we have seen numerous times with these assholes, that whole “brandishing” thing goes out the window. If you fear for your life, you better react. How many times have we seen not so lucky people surrounded by these mobs and brutally beat? Would you allow them to back you into a corner? Yea, I thought so. And btw, I think you missed my point ENTIRE trying to be an asshole.

        2. avatar Ron says:

          They did a hell of lot more then that in those videos.

          But yes they were trying to provoke violence, so they in turn could get violent then claim they were justified.

        3. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

          “…but what about the one where they backed people into a corner and started breaking shit and throwing things around them?”

          Response must be proportional. A face full of pepper spray would have been an appropriate response.

          Coming at them up close (in their face) threatening and menacing? I’d draw, and if they didn’t back the fuck off, ‘game on’…

        4. avatar Ron says:

          I’m hesitant to pull pepper spray on someone who may have a gun. That’s the problem with all this. You don’t have time to weigh out a “proportional response” or stop and think about all the legal and moral nuances.

          Someone’s aggressively in your face and you have to respond quickly. And I say this as someone who’s used pepper spray in self defense multiple times (worked in jail and prison), I’m not discounting its effectiveness, it can work, but it may not work, and in the outside world, people have guns. That incident in Colorado is a perfect example of why pepper spray isn’t as an effective tool as it may seem. Think of it this way, it’s a temporary blinding agent, and only if you get it in their eyes.

        5. avatar strych9 says:

          Subtlety might help.

          I’m a pepperhead but I have this bottle of hot sauce I keep around just to see if other pepperheads can handle it. No one can. A drop basically ruins a whole meal.

          Load up a keychain hotsauce holder full of that shit and when these guys sit at your table, smile, ask if you can get them anything. On you, of course. When whatever they ordered comes just say “Oh, you gotta try this!” and dump some of that stuff on their plate. Then smile at them and keep doing whatever you’re doing.

          https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001BIXJG2/?linkCode=ogi

        6. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

          7.1 *million* Scovilles.

          Yikes. I’m a lightweight, a Habanero is about as hot as I can take it, and even then, just a bit. The best tasting pepper I have ever had was from a Datil pepper, the sauce was called ‘Datil Do It’. A wonderful after-taste.

          How much hotter is that than a ‘Carolina Reaper’ type pepper?

          https://www.datildoit.com/product-page/dat-l-hot-sauce-single

        7. avatar strych9 says:

          “How much hotter is that than a ‘Carolina Reaper’ type pepper?”

          Than the pepper or an extract made from the pepper? It’s like 3.2 to 4.7 times hotter than the actual peppers but there’s crazy concentrated extracts out there.

          The hottest sauce I personally know of is called “No. 9 Plutonium” and it’s 9 million SHU, IIRC it’s from Mad Dog 357, like $100/oz and you have to heat the bottle to hit the transition temperature and actually have a reasonable liquid.

          Really once you get to the point of extracting and purifying capsaicin you’re into the psycho-realm and the question is at what concentration becomes too thick to use and what pepper you get it from ceases to matter provided you have enough of them to make the desired amount/concentration. (I believe the structure of capsaicin is amphipathic due to it’s hydrocarbon tail and a hydroxyl group at the other end, so as the concentration rises that fairly straight tail should pack down and make the substance increasingly thick in a manner somewhat similar to a substance like a phospholipid, but I’d have to actually look up the chemistry on that, either way, it gets thick when concentrated and it’s not terribly soluble in water. The result is extracts that are, frankly, stupid.)

        8. avatar hawkeye says:

          I use Carolina Reaper powder in the wife’s bird food, to keep the marauding ‘coons at bay, got tired of shooting them. Runs 1.6-2.2 million on the Scoville scale, as noted. I do not use it in my chili, not even a particle, although I do like spicy food. I’d do what strych9 suggests, with the tiny bottle, except that, sure as shootin’, I’d grab the wrong tiny bottle during a possible medical emergency end up taking the wrong kind of nitro. Sure as shootin’.

          And strych9 is correct. One can make it only so potent without it going hard. Once you get to pure capsaicin, any liquid you add only dilutes it. As for scale, that bottle of stuff he wields is probably enough to thoroughly ruin a truckload of good chili.

        9. avatar strych9 says:

          “I use Carolina Reaper powder in the wife’s bird food, to keep the marauding ‘coons at bay…”

          Do I infer correctly from this that birds are somewhat (or totally) immune to the effects of capsaicin?

        10. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

          “pure cap” ain’t what it used to be- they oil it down now.

          https://www.hotsauce.com/16-million-pure-capsaicin-crystals-10ml/?device=c&keyword=hotsauce&campaign=353789958&msclkid=ea0d796619541c11756026ebe57a601f&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=**LP%20DSA%20-%20All%20Pages&utm_term=hotsauce&utm_content=All%20Pages

          that should do it. i was handed a piece of 9million shu chocolate by someone who knew i make hot sauce. had to squirt ketchup and mustard afters just so’s i could begin to stand it. i watch her a little more closely now.

        11. avatar hawkeye says:

          “Do I infer correctly from this that birds are somewhat (or totally) immune to the effects of capsaicin?”

          Yep, the birds never bat an eye. They don’t have mucous membranes, or at least, the correct type of mucous membranes. Whereas the mammalians run for the hills. If they return after a dose of the Reaper, they end up succumbing to lead poisoning. The wife does not like raccoons that mess with her birds, and my orders are very clear.

        12. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

          strych, watched a mexi cuisine program once that showed birds eating chiltepines (chile pequin) like they were candy. the narrator voiced that they were not affected by the oils.

          i recommend chile manzana if you can find them. hard to grow, hot fleshy and citrusy.

        13. avatar hawkeye says:

          Good dark chocolate already has a bit of bite in the aftertaste, but it’s made even better with a bit of chili pepper mixed in. In fact, I think I have a bar of it stashed away, have to dig it out when I get home. That straight capsaicin stuff though, too much of a good thing…

  12. avatar MADDMAXX says:

    She is also of the opinion that an individual should have to prove they have the right to carry a gun

    The product of a “modern” edu-indoctrination… They obviously did not divulge the existence of that obscure document that some of us reverently refer to as the U.S. Constitution that clearly enumerates ALL of the rights and protections afforded ALL American citizens.. Had she been informed of the presence of such a document she might have taken the time to explore it and found buried deep within the text she would have discovered a rather cryptic (to some anyway) paragraph that hints at the likelihood that every citizen has the right to own (KEEP) and carry (BEAR) arms (A GUN) and that NO laws should be enacted to (INFRINGE) upon that right… Which is pretty much ALL the PROOF anyone needs to PROVE they have the RIGHT to carry a gun…

  13. avatar MADDMAXX says:

    Hennard put his guns (a GLOCK 17 and a Ruger P89) to the bodies or foreheads of the Luby’s patrons and pulled the trigger. The total carnage: 23 people murdered, 20 more wounded.

    WHAT?? No ASSAULT Rifles.. I thought you could only do THAT much damage with an AR or an AK type rifle….

    1. avatar Jerms says:

      He did have those scary “high-capacity” magazines

      1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

        He did have those scary “high-capacity” magazines

        Yeah there is that….

    2. avatar Bcb says:

      If there were that many people in the restaurant they could have subdued him short of that many people dying. (Probably just didn’t register to those poor folks then). There are crazy people is our world by scary percentages. We have since learned to not be cowed before them.

      1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

        If there were that many people in the restaurant they could have subdued him short of that many people dying. (Probably just didn’t register to those poor folks then

        Pulse Nightclub, Orlando… ONE shooter, 300 people, 50 dead, 53 injured… must be a herd thing.. They could have wore that fuck bag out before he changed his first mag…

        1. avatar Bcb says:

          That’s a great example. Run and hide really doesn’t work well. Fight back seems to work pretty well. Especially in numbers.

      2. avatar Cooter E Lee says:

        Every September 11th I mentally reaffirm my commitment to attack no matter the odds or how I am armed if I am in a situation that warrants it. That way, I don’t have too feel the trickle of urine down my leg while I cower like a Broward county deputy. The decision has been made, the only thing to do is to implement it quickly without hesitation.

        If I sell my life (which I love dearly) as nothing more than a backstop for bullets or a piece of meat to dull a knife, then I will have lived and died according to my moral code.

        But paraphrasing General Patton: I don’t intend to die. I intend to make the other son of a bitch die.

        1. avatar Mr Lucky says:

          +100, Cooter. laughed out loud at “…cower like a Broward county deputy”. Mind if I steal it?

  14. avatar Montana Actual says:

    Complacency and laziness. That is all.

    There are so many laws that exist now days and most people consider it a good thing to be “law abiding”. Obviously, being a crack dealing gang banger is not a good look, but law abiding? Might as well call yourself loyal to the crown no matter who wears it. “Another tax? Well gollee, I’d be happy to pay it”.

    No one wants to admit that the idiots destroying the cities actually have a point. Their cause is idiotic, as is their target, but they achieve their goal, don’t they? They do. No matter how much you and I hate to admit it. Yea yea, we know, another trump vote in the box for every car blocked. But consider if “law abiding” “silent majority” voters started storming state capitals and demanding constitutional carry in states like CA… and not leaving until they get it, even if that requires burning the state capital to the ground and putting those 40mm’s to work on a group of tyrants. Do you think anything less will achieve results? If you do, you are naive and the exact reason why so many laws exist in the first place. Complacency and laziness.

    Also, a big fuck you todays fedboi assigned to reading my posts. Love u boo.

  15. avatar Ron says:

    “She believes the world would be better off without guns.“

    This type of person always fascinates me. Like they seem to think the world would be more peaceful or some shit with no firearms. I guess they miss the brutality of things like feudalism, deism, and Iron Age warfare. Also commonality of rape, murder, and theft of the weak by the strong.

    Firearms made the world far more civilized.

    1. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

      “Also commonality of rape, murder, and theft of the weak by the strong.”

      You have to admit, Islamic law on the covering up women came from a practical perspective. It helped reduce daughters being raped…

      1. avatar Specialist38 says:

        How exactly, does it do that?.

        Rape and abuse of women( and men) is common in Muslim countries.

        A black covering doesnt usually stop some piece of shit from rape or other mayhem.

        Are you of the mind that seeing some ankle, calf, or cleavage may suddenly incite rape?

        Piece-of-shit people need no such enticement.

      2. avatar Ron says:

        Doubtful.

        A cloth covering isn’t going to stop a rapist no more then a cloth mask will stop a virus.

        Rapists don’t act on a sudden, uncontrollable horny impulse to have sex. That’s not how rape works. A rapist doesn’t just walk around, see an attractive woman and jump on her.

        Rape is a violent attack and is driven by someone who craves power and domination. The sexual act or getting off actually has little to do with it.

        The only thing that stops a violent attack is a violent response or a credible threat of a violent response.

        Islamic culture has likely lead to MORE rapes of women, not less. Islamic culture dictates women to be submissive and inferior. Weaponry only belongs to the elite of society and families not in with the elite have no local or political power. If you lived in a Muslim country and your family member was raped, you wouldn’t even be able to do anything about it if the rapist was in a superior cast of society. They wouldn’t even be allowed to defend themselves and then they would be executed for allowing themselves to be raped.

        Islam is a cancer on the world and there are absolutely no positives to it. The left will learn this the hard way when Europe succumbs to sharia law and their bastion of leftism is crushed under the Jihadi boot.

      3. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

        “Are you of the mind that seeing some ankle, calf, or cleavage may suddenly incite rape?”

        Today, hell no. But you have to consider the world over there at that time…

        1. avatar Ron says:

          Much of it is still like that today. But covering up women still didn’t stop rapes. Requiring women to be with a male family member may help, however that still won’t stop a member of the elite or organized gang from killing you then raping someone. Or hell just raping the guy too. Remember as a commoner you likely wouldn’t be armed and resisting would likely result in further reprisals by the powerful of society.

          When you add firearms to the mix, the commoners are now on a more equal footing with the elite/gangs. They can organize and fight both. That’s a big part of the reason why the west is much more civilized today. Much of the middle east remains in this culture of submission however due to thousands of years of Islamic brainwashing.

        2. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

          “Or hell just raping the guy too.”

          From what I gather, they tend to prefer ’em on the per-pubercent age level…

        3. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          From what I gather, they tend to prefer ’em on the per-pubercent age level

          From what I have read about Benghazi Chris Stevens was captured alive and sexually abused several times before he died and we know they ass raped Gaddaffi before they killed him.. I guess it’s only HOMOsexual if you are the receiver…. Must be some kind humiliation thing, wonder if Muhammad taught that little gem?… Ass rape your enemy BUT throw homosexuals off the roof or stone them to death?

    2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      But, but, but — people really do not want to be violent and we can all get along if we had more social workers to fix all of us — thus we should immediately destroy all firearms and hire more social workers!

      Oh, wait, some people are violent because white people are evil — we will all get along and violent people will stop being violent when white people admit that they are evil and beg for forgiveness.

      Er, hold on, some people are violent because of income inequality and we will finally eliminate violence once and for all when we eliminate poverty!

      Darn it, I forgot that some people are violent because (excuse number 237 of Progressive ideology).

      Of course reality is much simpler: some people are just violent, nasty, evil scumbags who will be violent no matter what anyone does which is why I will NEVER agree to destroy my firearms.

    3. avatar MADDMAXX says:

      . I guess they miss the brutality of things like feudalism

      MISS IT!!! Hell man, that’s what they’re hoping for…..

      1. avatar Mr Lucky says:

        Well, why CAN’T you run around with your own horde? I miss the good old days of pillage, plunder and rapine. The razing of villages was such fun. Some of the serfs objected, but boys will be boys.

        1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Well, why CAN’T you run around with your own horde?

          I actually did back in the day… The horses were steel and the armor was leather, rape and pillage was not really our thing but at 75 to a hundred strong we got to do pretty much anything else we wanted to do and the rape thing is not necessary with so many willing… I’m afraid Antifa and BLM zealots would be unhappy campers if a similar group rolled into Portland or Seattle today, there would be much rending of clothes and gnashing (or breaking) of teeth… And blood lots of blood (theirs)…. AHHHHH good times… As you said “Boys WILL be Boys”

  16. avatar Innocent Bystander says:

    The Democratic Party has raised more than $500 million dollars for this election than the Republican Party. Everyone on this site needs to donate hundreds if not thousands to the Republican Party NOW. The big Republican donors are not stepping up. If we lose our rights please don’t be crying on this site. It’s your own fault.

    1. avatar Montana Actual says:

      lol. no.

    2. avatar Yep says:

      Money doesn’t win elections. It’s the votes

    3. avatar Ron says:

      Hillary outspent Trump by hundreds of millions last time too.

      The left has on its side almost all the mega billionaires and almost the entire “elite”, globally. There’s no way we can counter that cash avalanche.

      However that certainly doesn’t mean we’re going to lose. People don’t really change their minds by political ads or social media trolls. Hundreds of millions in ads at this point doesn’t really change anyone’s mind.

    4. avatar MADDMAXX says:

      The big Republican donors are not stepping up

      Yeah they are, They’re buying air time for Creepy “Big Guy” Uncle Joe in Fl… At least three 30 second ads at each commercial break on every channel (air AND cable) 24/7… Supposed veterans regurgitating the lie about the “dead suckers and losers” alleged Drs. telling bullshit stories about a young mother dying from covid, and of course middle class Joe the Man FOR the People (the regular Joe, NOT the lying ass, multi-millionaire, International criminal Joe)…. All lies ALL the time (there really needs to be a fucking law)… If they are spending this much money in FL I can imagine what Oh, Pa, Mi, MN, WI and AZ looks like… Hundreds of millions? billions? spent on false ads with NO repercussions… Looks like a contribution in kind to me….

      1. avatar PMinFl says:

        I’m glad that I’m not the only one to notice this over the weekend past. Tried to watch the baseball playoffs and was inundated with sloe joe ads ,several in an inter inning break. Tried to evade them by choosing another cable channel and same crap!!! bloomberg got his 100 million dollar’s worth in Florida this weekend.

        1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Tried to evade them by choosing another cable channel

          That shit was everywhere… College Football, the Petit Le Mans, NHRA, even ran on that off the wall Crime channel.. 125 channels w/wall to wall “Orange man bad” and Creepy Uncle Joe “All American Boy”.. Way more than Bloombergs hundred mill at work here… Hope people down here are smarter than I give them credit for… That’s not counting all the digital billboards running those same ads 24/7 around Orange and Seminole counties and I’m assuming other major population centers around the state.. Has to be hundreds of millions at work here….. Some of that crap (out right lies, stuff out of context) is still running today… All that and Dems are pulling HUGE donations $36,000,000 for a Senate race in N.H. with a population of 1.3 million people?… The donor fraud is obvious, it’s the same in nearly every Senate Race and that doesn’t include all the money spent on the TV crap by PACs…

  17. avatar former water walker says:

    Quite coincidentally I just had a “conversation” with a fb “friend” bemoaning “what’re we gonna do if slow Joe wins”? Lock n load. A gal piped up I can’t! I live in Jersey! Move. Another old guy “I have training… you can’t just git a gun! It’s complicated”! It went over their tiny brains that so many states have NO training requirements or permit to grovel for. Even Illinois has an enormous # of CC holder’s. Oh well😔

    1. avatar Montana Actual says:

      Not even that, but when it comes down to it, fuck “the law”. Our country and it’s ideals would never had been founded had the forefathers just complained about “how hard it is” and obeyed the rules. It’s not like we are the ones advocating socialism, communism, racism, tyranny, oppression, and just down right hatred. The “silent majority” wants freedom, but it comes at a HUGE cost. Either people will learn to be willing to pay the price, or stop complaining and learn to ignore their laziness. Everyone CAN play a part. From the cook to the IT guy to the weekend sport shooter… there are uses for you. Put yourself to work.

      1. avatar Chris Morton says:

        I’m Black. I ask Black people if they’d pick cotton for free if the 13th Amendment were repealed. They of course say no.

        I then ask, “Then why would you give up your guns if the 2nd Amendment were repealed?”

  18. avatar VicRattlehead says:

    Your friend is a ‘highly educated’ idiot.
    I’ve met so many people that have had the common sense ‘educated’ right out of them that ‘highly educated’ has become synonymous with ‘moron who thinks they know it all’ to me. Most of the time I’d rather converse with an ACTUAL moron, at least they don’t already know everything about everything.

    As far as: “You would want to carry your gun into this restaurant?” my anti-gun amiga demanded. “What if everybody in here had guns? Don’t you think there’d be trouble? Don’t you think that some of the people in here have no business having guns?”
    The simple facts your ‘amiga’ fails to grasp are:
    -If everyone there WAS carrying a person who was intent on creating trouble would have SERIOUS cause to reconsider their intended course of action.
    -There is absolutely nothing stopping a person intent on doing harm besides the law, which is quite ineffective at stopping crime.
    -The world would be better if guns weren’t NEEDED, not if they didn’t exist. People were inflicting violence upon each other LONG before guns existed; worse, actually as the strong and violent had a massive advantage over others.

    1. avatar CentralVirginian says:

      I once had a coworker tell me the Virginia Tech shooting would have been a real bloodbath had people had concealed weapons. My question to him was, “what part of 32 people being executed was not a bloodbath?”
      He had no rebuttal.

      1. avatar James Campbell says:

        May have wanted to explain reality to that idiot. When a mass shooter is receiving return fire (and has a way to escape), the mass shooting STOPS.
        These mass shooters are cowards, proven by the fact they choose “gun free” (AKA; unarmed victim) zones.
        Trump/Pence 2020

        1. avatar Chris Morton says:

          Mass murderers don’t want a gunfight. They want a massacre.

          Start shooting back and they lose heart for the fight.

      2. avatar Chris Morton says:

        They prefer the CERTAINTY of being murdered execution style to the POSSIBILITY of being wounded by someone defending themselves.

        Rational thought is rapidly becoming as quaint as celluloid collars…

  19. avatar J says:

    Should have 2 different maps for this article. The map shown in this article is incorrect and only shows the progress of the so called right-to-carry/concealed carry movement. We have always had the right to carry in most states as in open carry. An Open Carry map of states over the same time periods will look a lot different than this article concealed carry map. In Illinois, you only have the right to concealed carry, which has only been given by the state of Illinois reluctantly in July of 2013 with counties and local governments given 10 days to restrict individual rights if the saw fit to do it. Carry rights were lost in Illinois in 1949 for pistols/revolvers. A much better map would show the states when we lost a right to carry (open and concealed) and when it changed to open/concealed carry. We always fail to distinguish between open carry, concealed carry, and so called Constitutional carry movement involving pistols. I do not every foresee that Illinois will ever have open carry or Constitutional carry in anyone’s lifetime involving pistols.

    Take a look at the 1986 map on gun-nuttery for Kentucky vs Illinois. Kentucky was and always has been open carry state until Constitutional carry was past in March 2019 giving individuals the right to open and concealed carry without permit. Kentucky only issued permits for concealed carry. In Kentucky, individuals have always had a right to open carry before Constitutional carry was passed. Illinois on the other hand, individuals lost their rights to open or concealed carry in 1949. In July of 2013, Illinois was forced into concealed carry and was the last state in the nation to allow concealed carry. It is about open carry vs concealed carry of pistols. Look at what the anti-2nd Amendment groups have done and separated us into this open carry vs shall issue/may issue concealed carry with most states. It should be our choice of how we want to carry and not forced up on us by the states. I for one would much rather have the right to carry how I choose than have a state like Illinois decide how I carry and still restrict my 2nd Amendment rights.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      So true. Until around 1995 Texas allowed NEITHER open nor concealed carry. Then licensed conceal only, no open, and finally licensed open as well, it’s an open question whether we’ll get unlicensed open or Constitutional first. I would love the SCOTUS to force reversion to the actual LAW, which includes the words “shall not be infringed” rather clearly.

  20. avatar Wiregrass says:

    When you have to prove you have a right, what you have is a permission.

    1. avatar James Campbell says:

      So true.
      Look at the FOID card backlog.
      A right delayed, is a right DENIED!
      Trump/Pence 2020

    2. avatar James Campbell says:

      Example, FIOD cards are AVERAGING FOUR MONTHS.
      My son submitted his LTC application on the day of his 21st Birthday. He received an email EIGHT DAYS LATER stating it was approved. He had his LTC card in hand at the age of 21 years and 10 days.
      Trump/Pence 2020

  21. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

    “You would want to carry your gun into this restaurant?” my anti-gun amiga demanded. “What if everybody in here had guns? Don’t you think there’d be trouble? Don’t you think that some of the people in here have no business having guns?””

    You should have asked her “What makes you think a bunch of people in this restaurant aren’t carrying guns right now?” and if you were carrying, which you should have been, then you should have indicated that to her. Illustrate to her in clear and undeniable terms that she is around people carrying guns all the time. Not only is her fantasy of indiscriminate carnage not happening, everyone is so well behaved that she does not even know they are carrying.

  22. avatar LarryinTX says:

    After six years overseas I retired and returned to Austin in July of 1991, just 3 months removed from serving in my final war in the middle east. Couple months later this happens on my doorstep. I have always carried when I felt the need, regardless of the legalities, only watching to see if anyone changed the 2A I learned in High School. Much has changed since then, not all for the better. I have been carrying during EVERY meal for the past 10-12 years, most of which have been at my dining room table. Has never hurt anybody, can anyone tell me why I should quit? It is a RIGHT, for crissake, there is no one on the planet with the qualifications to decide whether I should be “allowed” or not.

  23. avatar Chris Morton says:

    “She believes the world would be better off without guns.”

    So she wants a world run by large, strong men armed with edged weapons and clubs?

    I believe we already tried that.

    It was called “the Dark Ages”.

  24. avatar A gun speaks the universal language, don’t 🖕with me! says:

    “Lobotomy joe” has killed more people with his gun free zones than most criminals! But then I repeat myself, Joe is a criminal of the lowest order! While there are crimes committed using guns, many more crimes are thwarted by them every year! Just look at the FBI’s own figures, up to 2.5 million times a year!

  25. avatar hawkeye says:

    “…with armed citizens ready, willing and apt to go all John Wayne on anybody who crossed them.”

    I don’t think I’m good with this line. Granted I’ve probably not seen all the film John Wayne graced, but I never considered his characters to be dangerous to any other characters unless they deserved it. If a fella needed ventilating, he got ventilated. He probably socked as many as he plugged. Sure some of his characters were kinda on the prod, but I honestly don’t recall any unjustified shootings done. Am I missing something?

  26. avatar Barry Hirsh says:

    “I recently had a discussion with a well-educated friend.”

    Anybody who would vote to remove your right to arms is not your ‘friend.’

  27. avatar Ronald west says:

    Well opinions are like A!!holes everyone’s got one mine is if she doesn’t like firearms that’s her choice, not everyone’s, she needs to realize that guns and servicemen with guns is why we the people of America can have a opinion. It’s called freedom

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