Florida Gun Owner Not Welcome In Maryland

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John Filippidis courtesy tbo.com

John Filippidis thought he was prepared for his Christmas roadtrip. He knew he’d be passing through some states in the northeast that didn’t value his Second Amendment rights as much as his home state of Florida—that is to say, “at all”—so he left his EDC, a Kel-Tec .380, at home in the safe. But he was mistaken. Traveling down I-95 on New Year’s Eve eve with his wife and three teenage daughters (God help him), he had an encounter with law enforcement that he never could have imagined.

Now, first let me say that we received more than a dozen emails about this story (Dave was first, go Dave!), but I was holding off because there is only one source and one story (as told to The Tampa Trib), and it has a fairly large hole, so I was hoping for more info. Alas, it was not to be, so on with the tale.

According to Mr. Filippidis, he was just barely into Maryland when he noticed he was being followed by an unmarked patrol car. It ran alongside them for a while, then in front, and pulled in behind them. For ten minutes. Finally, the lights came on, and they pulled over. Mr. F provides his license and registration, and then waited. For ten more minutes.

The officer, who was from the Transportation Authority Police, Maryland’s version of the NY Port Authority, orders Mr. F out of the vehicle, took him back behind the SUV and ordered him to hook his thumbs behind his back and spread his feet. Then, according to Mr. F, he heard the officer say something he never expected. “You own a gun. Where is it?”

Mr. F told the officer that it’s at home in the safe. The officer ordered him not to move, and walked up to the passenger window where Mrs. F is sitting. “Your husband owns a gun. Where is it?” She replied that she doesn’t know, but unfortunately, she didn’t stop there. “Maybe in the glove [box]. Maybe in the console. I’m scared of it. I don’t want to have anything to do with it. I might shoot right through my foot.”

The officer returned to John, and called him a liar. “You’re lying to me. Your family says you have it. Where is the gun? Tell me where it is and we can resolve this right now.” Of course, John can’t show him what doesn’t exist. The officer later told him that his wife’s failure to corroborate his story was the probable cause for the officer to summon backup.

Three marked cars showed up and the Expedition was emptied. Family, luggage, Christmas gifts, laundry bags, all on the side of the road. The eldest twin daughters were patted down, and Mr. and Mrs. F were separated into the backs of two patrol cars. The officers explored the engine compartment and probed inside door panels. After 90 minutes or more—”It felt like forever,” said Mrs. F—no weapons were found, the Expedition was repacked, and the story ends, for the moment, with the officer writing out a warning, for 71 in a 55.

So the hole I mentioned earlier is this: unlike some states, concealed weapons permit information is not available immediately at hand during roadside stops to LEOs in the state of Florida. It can be obtained, but it’s on-demand; there is no red flag that pops up when they run your license or registration. They don’t call up and ask if John Doe has a permit, but they can call to see if the permit John Doe presented is still valid. Since 2006, permit holder and applicant information is exempt from public records laws. Further, no firearms ownership information of any kind is available, because Florida has no firearm registration scheme.

So the question is, if Florida law enforcement doesn’t get permit information on a regular roadside stop without a specific request, how did the Maryland officer get the information? If the officer was quoted correctly—”You own a gun”—how would he know that, given that there is no firearms registration in the state of Florida? MTAP isn’t talking on the record, citing pending investigation, but Mr. Filippidis has received apologies from both the officer’s captain as well as an MTAP internal affairs captain, which would seem to indicate that something isn’t right.

In the meantime, Mr. F is considering canceling his CWFL, if it’s not more trouble than it’s worth. While I can understand his concern after what he went through, I hope that’s not the route he chooses to take.

[Small Update: The Conservative Treehouse has sent MTAP a public records request and received confirmation that it was received.]

[Update #2: According to a second post at The Conservative Treehouse, Maryland has an intelligence hub known as the Maryland Coordination and Analysis Center. According to TCH, “the intelligence analysis hub has access to, and contains, Florida’s CCW list (among other identification systems) and mines the state’s database systems for vehicle plate numbers of the holders. These license plate numbers are then stored in a cross referencing database within the Maryland Coordination and Analysis Center.” But that’s just the beginning. Click over to read the rather chilling “rest of the story.”

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    • In the meantime, Mr. F is considering canceling his CWFL, if it’s not more trouble than it’s worth

      Is this guy crazy? He has the chance to file a giant lawsuit and he’s thinking about giving up his license.

    • Maybe, just maybe, only maybe, the cop was LYING. Common “investigation technique.” If the guy didn’t own a gun, he would have said so in response to that question. This is by far the most likely situation here, maybe.

  1. In the middle of the desert, late at night. The cop is lucky Mr. FIlippidis seems like a good person, I know some unsavory individuals who would have solved that differently.

    Seems scary for you guys that your guns are registeret without you knowing it.

      • Okay, its not the desert. My American geography sucks, should get a native American friend to help me out with this.

        Though I doubt there would have been too many witnessess.

        • It was on a very busy 6 lane highway between New York and Philadelphia. On a side note, this is why i don’t put stickers for my favorite gun companies on my car, even though I think it’s important for awareness.

        • Erk …

          FYI to all … the area that they speak of is directly north of Baltimore … about an hour-ish north of Washington, DC … about an hour and a half south of Philadelphia … and is 3 lanes in each direction (and transitions to four lanes for a while).

          The area that he was apparently followed in, north of Baltimore along Interstate 95, is 3 lanes in each direction from the Fort McHenry tunnel (where he noticed the cop) up to the Interstate 895-95 merge, at which point it becomes 4 lanes each way. It has moderate to heavy traffic almost all of the time. It’s not isolated in any way. It’s all urban/suburban.

          That said … traffic is flying by so fast there (limit is 55 mph, although most traffic flows 60-70 mph) that it’s not as if anyone is really going to know what’s going on at a traffic stop that they drive by.

          The state of Maryland has a bit of almost everything geographically (hills, bays, oceanfront, “mountains,” flatland, etc.), but no desert.

          As a sidenote … there’s currently construction between I-695 (Baltimore beltway) and MD 43, which sounds like roughly the area that he was pulled over in. I’m glad he didn’t get a ticket for speeding in a construction zone.

        • Was trying to give a good idea of what the area was like. figured somebody unfamiliar with US geography might be more familiar with NYC/Philly for the type of population area

    • The Baltimore is a bad area, but it’s not quite a desert. Maybe a desert of common sense, liberty, and the 2nd Amendment.

    • Florida doesn’t nor ever has registered any kind of firearm. Our CCW Licenses are not linked to our DL or license plates. That Transportation Cop accessed some other data base to find out he had a license which isn’t grounds for probable cause to make a traffic stop much less search the vehicle the way he did. Frankly, the jackwagon cop should be working a toll booth until he retires. No southern state has any kind of gun registration. We don’t consider Maryland a Southern State.

      • We’d like to think that. But just what HAS the en-ess-a been up to lately? Certainly not upholding the Constitution…

      • That’s pretty cool, but I’m sure you still have to submit the NICS check when you buy from a LGS or Big Box shop. I would like to believe the NICS info (make/model/serial number) are NOT kept, except I’m old enough to know better…especially with NICS now being done online!

  2. And cops wonder why they’re getting a Costco-sized ration of abuse from the gun-owning public (and many more besides) these days.

    To cops: You’re getting what you deserve. You know who these thugs are in your ranks. You obviously tolerate them in your ranks. Silence equals assent.

    To Mr. Filippidis: You need to have words with your wife, as many men do. When you’re talking to cops, follow this rule: don’t.

      • 5-10% give everybody else in a group a bad name.

        How many rabid, religious people do you kniw in comparison to normal, religious people?

        Change out “religious people” to any group and it still rings true, except if you are in a bad place.

        • I disagree, most cops stay quiet when they witness misconduct. That makes them just as guilty and corrupt. So most of them are in that boat. Maybe not 95%, but definitely a majority.

        • Law Enforcement personnel are NOT any group. They have been granted a huge amount of authority over the rest of us, and should be help,to a much, much higher standard. They ought to hold THEMSELVES to a much higher standard. There should not be any place in their ranks to for the very prevalent “us vs. them” mindset which seems so prevalent, and is the underpinning of a lot of L.E. gun control support. Certainly the comparison to the percentage of “unusual thinkers” in any religion is way off base.

        • No such thing as a good cop. A good cop would not enforce bad laws like drug possession, or any victim-less “crimes”. This will get a cop fired in no time.

          Also, a good cop would turn in an abusive cop or one that victimizes a citizen. This is an extremely rare event and when it happens the good cop gets death threats from his fellow state mercenaries, and then quickly gets fired.

          Therefore, there is no such thing as a good cop.

    • I am glad that my spouse is an attorney. In the absence of her council, I will be following her standing order of STFU. Of course the military “interview” training should help on that front as well. Yeah, it sucks that we are stationed in Maryland. We are trying to get (assigned) to North Carolina soon.

    • Only if you take this unverified story as gospel. I work in Maryland. No way does a license check (much less a vehicle registration check) from Florida reveal permit status in MD as the story seems to suggest. NCIC doesn’t supply that info. Now since the Florida to NY corridor is a huge drug\weapons artery I think it is possible that some remark by wifey may have gotten her husband in the hot water.

    • +10, Tell her you love the sound she makes when she shuts up then sue, not for th money but to defend your rights before they are taken from you.

  3. The moral of the story — kick you wife’s ass out if she is scared of guns! No really, my wife has her own gun, has her own CCW, my son & daughter-in-law and son-in-law all have their CCW’s. My wife is well versed and aware of the crap the cops will pull now a days so that helps. Just continues to prove to me that I don’t need to ever go east of the Mississippi.

    • East of the Mississippi is fine, so long as it is south of the Mason Dixon. (With a few exceptions such as Indiana)

    • Tell me how that gun is going to fire with no finger on the trigger, and only two fingers holding it.

      • It’ still bad muzzle discipline. Never point the gun at something where you would mind if that something was to be shot.

        • Ever notice muzzle discipline in gun shop? 300 handguns pointed at the customers as the clerk takes one out to show it.

        • While trigger discipline is a good thing, you are taking this to an absurd extreme; there is NO WAY that thing is going to go off.

        • Have you ever been to a gun show, or the NRA National meeting? Guns are pointed at thousands of people every day. The outdoor gun ranges I’ve been at usually have guns pointed down range and people go to check targets in the line of sight. It’s a good rule to never point a gun at someone, but it’s broken frequently.

    • I believe it has been pointed out on many occasions that it is necessary to break at least TWO of the four rules before bad things happen. This is why the direction of the muzzle in and of itself is not of great concern when the weapon is sitting on a bench or in a case, or when no person has a firm firing grip on the weapon.

      Obsessive concern with muzzle direction will force you to NEVER handle a firearm, since it is all but impossible to move it from place to place without pointing the muzzle at something you “don’t want to kill/destroy.” This is along the lines of the New York lady who jumped in panic from her rental car in order to get away from that awful rifle zipped up in a bag in the trunk of the car.

      The four rules ARE “Common Sense Gun Control.” Emphasis on Common Sense.

  4. I’ve been on the fence for years about whether I’m better or worse off by not having a concealed carry license. This is an indication that my concerns are not without merit.

    • This isn’t a story about CCW permits. Having one wasn’t the problem. Having a permit is, in almost every state, no evidence that you own a gun. It is the gun purchase information that led to the statement “I know you have a gun. Where is it?” It is a story about how Maryland cops can run a person’s drivers license or name and birth date and get an answer that includes data from BATFE copies of sales information. It may be, worse and less likely, an indication that a database of NICS check applicants is being kept illegally. The apology from higher-ups would have been to cover the verboten revelation but the under-trained cop that such information was kept by BATFE and available to MD cops.

      The deceit about government records and surveillance is falling away as data spills out over the edge of the vast barrels in which they tried to store it. Our DoJ has truly gone over the top, and our voters never connect the dots until it comes back to bite them. Typical of government grown so large that no citizen can keep track of or affect more than a few issues, while the federal government moves ahead on hundreds of issues every month.

      • Typical of government grown so large that no citizen can keep track of or affect more than a few issues, while the federal government moves ahead on hundreds of issues every month.

        This is a wonderful point!

      • I, for one, wouldn’t be surprised at all to find out that the NICS system is incredibly porous.

    • This guy struck himself out, mostly. He reveals he’s a gun owner by handing over his worthless Florida CWP (or perhaps with a sticker on his vehicle, etc.), strike one. His airhead wife runs her mouth to the cop, strike two. Not a member of the Maryland plutocracy or their enforcers, strike three.

      If anyone needed a reminder, he’s a perfect example of just how badly one can handle a traffic stop in 2A-unfriendly territory.

    • Nicholas, I agree. I’m in Delaware and I still travel to Maryland occasionally. I don’t want anything like this to happen to me. Also travel to New Jersey sometimes *shudder* …

      I don’t have a carry permit right now. Open carry is legal in DE without a permit, and for now that’s what I do.

      I really wish constitutional carry was the law of the land. This gun owner harassment is BS.

    • The problems encountered by Mr. F at the hands of a fascist cop in a hoplophobe state are NOTHING compared to the problems he would face back home in Florida if he were to carry that weapon without the permit.

      Yes, CCW permits are unconstitutional, but how much shit do you want to put up with to make that point while the rest of us NOT IN JAIL work to get the 2A restored to its rightful status?

  5. Well, crap, Maryland has just given Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart another bright idea. “I know you’re a FOID-card holder and have applied for a concealed carry permit. Where’s your firearm? We know how excited you nuts have been over concealed carry, so don’t tell me you don’t have it on your person or in your car right now.”

    • I think it is a faulty inference that the cop had information about a Florida CCW permit. It seems much more likely that Maryland is able to link upward to a federal source recording gun purchases. A CCW (or IL FOID) is not proof that you bought or own a gun. A sale record is proof you either own one if the record does not connect to another handgun transfer record. No?

      • ” It seems much more likely that Maryland is able to link upward to a federal source recording gun purchases.”

        And that source is illegal.

        • That’s right; so is violating the protections of the Second Amendment of the US Constitution.

          We all see how that’s been working.

        • Absolutely illegal. This incident is the stuff of which Congressional investigations are made. Should be made, I mean.

        • I agree that the source is illegal. However, they exist. Since Florida doesn’t link the ccw license to the DL and license plate, they have to go to a different data base and specifically ask.

      • Roping, putting aside my tongue-in-cheek comment for a moment, your efforts to apply logic to this story are admirable, but I do not think that law enforcement in unfriendly areas feel the need to have a 100% certainty of gun possession to harass someone. Plus, CCW permits have to correlate extremely highly with gun ownership, at least they would in Illinois where the permits cost $150 and require 16 hours of training. They’re not $10 FOID cards. As for whether Maryland has access to NICS data and are using that information, they may be. That data, however, doesn’t establish the guy had the gun on him or in the car, just as a CCW license doesn’t establish he owns a firearm.

        • The unjustified and unproductive harassment and poor judgment by the initiating officer is probably why Mr. Filippidis received apologies from both the officer’s captain as well as an MTAP internal affairs captain.

        • By foolishly responding to the question and stating that his pistol was at home in the safe Mr. F admitted to the cop that he did have a pistol. Still not probable cause.

          The legal standard is “Innocent until proven guilty,” and admission of ownership of a perfectly legal tool is not probable cause you will use that tool to commit a crime or even that you have that tool with you or in your car.

          Mr. F otherwise showed admirable restraint in not losing his “privileges” forever by committing domestic battery against his wife.

      • A sale record is proof you either own one if the record does not connect to another handgun transfer record. No?

        I don’t understand this sentence exactly. Anyway, all the sales record says is that you bought a gun at some time in the past. It certainly doesn’t prove that you currently own anything.

        • I would have to agree. A NICS check on file doesn’t mean the purchaser still owns a gun. It could have been gifted, privately sold, intentionally destroyed, etc. Which also brings up: a lack of “ownership” of the firearm when NICS records show a purchase of one does not necessarily constitute a straw purchase took place either.

  6. Again I say, watch the youtube video by the attorney speaking to a law class about why you should never talk to the police, ever, under any circumstances. And have your wife watch it too…

    • Naw. Make her watch it five times. Then make her answer a questionnaire. If she fails, make her watch it until she passes.

      • Ask her to answer a questionnaire. If she agrees without asking for a lawyer first – FAIL. Have her watch the video again.

    • The video is useful and informative. Cops I know agree about 99%. The point they make is that there are a very few times when talking to the police is necessary. One such example: child abduction.
      If you are the child’s parent in a child abduction investigation, police MAY consider you a suspect based on solid social science data and simple circumstance. You may find such police assumptions and their questioning offensive, distressing and outrageous.
      Sorry, get over it. If you care about the kid, you need to swallow your pride and try to get the investigation away from you and onto the actual perp ASAP. Hopefully, competent detectives will clear you quickly.

      In such circumstances, I see no non-suck options.Or am I missing somthing?

    • It was repealed decades ago, along with the “shall not be infringed” portion of the Second Amendment, the 10th Amendment, and any other limitations on government power.

  7. I live in PA and drive to MD all the time to visit In-Laws and my brother. Guess, we will see what happens.

  8. The cop could have been bluffing. Perhaps he saw the Florida plates, thought “gun state,” took a stab, and let Filippidis’ answer confirm that he owns a gun. After the NSF revelations, it shouldn’t surprise anyone if there were some kind of illicit registry, but a successful bluff is at least possible.

    The cop was a dick, either way.

    • he could have also seen his FL CWFL when the DL was pulled out. Most people have it right behind their drivers license. Atleast, most of the people I know who have told me they have one.

        • +100,000. It worked at a drug interdiction stop in Geary County, KS. Eventually. And that’s a really good thing….

      • “I do not consent to be searched.” “Why am I being detained?” “Am I free to go?”

        Also, the wife saying she does not know where the pistol is cannot possibly be probable cause to think it is actually in the car. If she stupidly told the LEO that she thought it was in the glove box or console, maybe. Still, if it’s not in plain view there is no probable cause and (depending on local law) there should still be a Fourth Amendment requirement to obtain a warrant gain permission to search.

        Makes me ashamed for what my country is becoming.

        • The whole story is disgraceful. Sad thing is that jerk cop probably fully believes he is doing “good” by oppressing people.

  9. Only a fool thinks the national databases of everything about you arent accessible by county mounties. What the hell do you think theyve been spending millions of dollars on these flashy computers in all the cop cars for the last 10 years? With Obamacare and another couple months spent programming the computers these Police State Enforcers will know if that guy has a rash on his sack, how many pills he is taking, when his last marriage counseling session was, as well as how many guns he owns.

    • Absolutely. Everything we buy on Amazon, CTD, Targetsports, Gunbroker, etc. is accessible. If you’re buying .45ACP ammo online, it’s a de facto gun registry – even if you bought your 1911 unpapered from a private party with cash.

      • America voted Obama into office, therefore you defacto approved the Fed to view and share your HIPAA protected information.

        • I’ve got some bad news- your sarcasm detector is busted. Hope you got the extended warranty. 😉

        • And real soon —- credit scores will take back seat to who the hell is pilaging my medical records. No surprise, after all Obama said he has a pen and a phone and can do whatever kind of Chicago style politics he wants.

        • “America voted Obama into office”

          If this statement is true – and it is not – then you voted him into office as well. You should probably drop this line of accusation. It’ll make you seem smarter.

    • “Only a fool thinks the national databases of everything about you arent accessible by county mounties.”

      It was a tunnel rat. NOT state. NOT county. NOT city. A bridge and tunnel rat. No jurisdiction outside the bridges and tunnels. Basically a meter maid with a gun.

      • Isnt’ that just what George Zimmerman was (not a bridge and tunnel maid but a neighborhood watchman with a gun)?

        • Here we go again with GZ! He was a CITIZEN with a gun that he carried in full compliance with the local unconstitutional concealed weapons laws. As a service to his community that was being plagued by problems with burglaries he donated his spare time to act as a neighborhood watch captain. On the night in question he was violently assaulted by a man he considered suspicious and did not draw or fire his weapon until he was being severely beaten by this unknown man (whose age he also could not have guessed at the time).

          How does this compare in any way with a uniformed officer in Maryland (regardless of the agency he worked for) goose-stepping all over Mr. F’s Constitutional rights?

        • In Arkansas, state building security personnel are some obscure segment of State Police, so it’s not too much of a stretch.

        • If I understand correctly, the Maryland Transportation Authority police are full-fledged cops with full law enforcement authority on some highways / bridges / tunnels / port of Baltimore / BWI airport. They’re sort of like state police with limited and specific jurisdictions. I think.

    • MD has a hard-on for policing. They probably have an agreement to share jurisdiction with state troopers or something. I know my friend, who is on one of the park police forces (and as far as I can tell one of the ‘good cops’), can pull motorists over anywhere in his county if I recall correctly.

      • I have a “friend” in the DEA, When our daughter’s troop went camping just this past weekend, he asked my oldest if I had brought my firearm with me. He never asked me. I no longer trust him as one of the “good guys.” Fortunately, My wife and I have taught our daughters to NEVER talk about them and to not answer anyone (except my wife or i) about our firearm(s).

        Do not trust any cop or federalized version of one as being “one of the good guys.” The only one you can trust is yourself if you are a Cop. People need a paycheck to support their families and will have no problem throwing yours under a bus to keep theirs fed.

        • If I had a similar “friend” I think that would be about the last time there would be any contact with him or his family. Why is he fishing for information?

      • I don’t know if this is still the case, but at one time my alma mater, VCU, had campus police that enjoyed a virtual State Marshall status. Their jurisdiction was defined as “anywhere a VCU student might be found”, which is the height of absurdity. But they actually did go out of state at least once I know of, to arrest a student on drug charges. No lie.

        • When I was down the road in the ‘burg attending the Tribe academy, our campus Barney Fifes had basically full police power , but they exercised a degree of restraint. For anything serious or off campus they’d bail and call in the town cops.

          Granted, that was many moons ago.

      • 1) …and a very costly toll tunnel, too.

        2) If it’s in MD, and there’s a nearby toll booth, the MTA Police are the likely policing authority even though the Ft. McHenry Tunnel is Interstate 95 and located within Baltimore’s city limits. There are a few exceptions to this statement.

        3) From the mouth of a Maryland State Trooper (I know, different agency) to my ears, “If you’re from out-of-state and have a CC Permit, we’ll do what we can to search your vehicle.” > Sickening.

        4) Speaking of deserts, MD is “Liberty’s Sahara.” Freedom is only a mirage within its borders.

    • I’m wondering if the LEO didn’t see Mr. F’s concealed carry permit while Mr. F was pulling out his driver’s license. Mine is right behind my DL in my wallet and could easily be seen during a traffic stop if I did everything out in the open in front of an officer.

      • I use to care my permits (NY, UT) in the same sleeve with my drivers license but moved them about 6 months ago just so I wouldn’t expose it. I keep them and my NRA card in a completely separate part of my wallet now.

      • While this MAY be the case, possession of a permit to carry a concealed weapon is NOT prima facie evidence that you actually own a weapon or that you have any weapon on you or with you. Nor is the CCW probable cause to obtain a search warrant and so definitely not probable cause to search you or your car without that warrant.

        It seems a HUGE stretch to assume that just because you have a CCW license in another state and are foolish enough to admit that you own a firearm that you are violating the law in a state that doesn’t recognize that license.

    • I don’t know what they do down in MD. But the Delaware (River) Port Authority has jurisdiction in all of PA and NJ. A DPA officer can ticket or arrest you at the NJ shore or the shore of Lake Eeie. I am gussing MD’s Port Authority is similar.

  10. I travel to MD to visit family at least once a year, and every year I’ve had my pistol with me. Granted we lock it up before crossing state lines, but technically I still have an “illegal pistol” in my possession for the entire visit.

    I don’t care. If a situation arises where I need that pistol, I’ll be glad to have it and it will be worth the fight in court. If we got pulled over like this, I suppose I’d be screwed. But me and my wife would lie our asses off. Yes sir, traveling through MD on our way to “insert gun friendly state here.”

    • You’d need a permit to carry in MD, and a permit to buy, but there’s no permit to possess, is there? So, why would your gun be illegal if unloaded and stowed?

      • At least MD and NJ have much higher requirements than that if you drive around with a pistol, even if stowed unloaded in a locked case. They (sometimes) respect to the Federal gun transport statute if you are passing straight through. If, however, the state is your destination, even “a” destination on your trip, do not expect them to treat you well unless and until SCOTUS makes them, and there is a penalty attached to the state’s violation.

        • Sorry to keep asking, but what documentation do you need to carry in MD when going to a range with the handgun unloaded and stowed?

        • Dave, without getting into too much detail, the basics of Maryland law is that while you’re in the vehicle, unless you’re going:

          (a) directly to/from a range, gun store or gun repair shop; or
          (b) passing directly through the state en route to another location; or
          (c) somehow managed to get a carry permit from the state (highly unlikely unless you’re politically connected);

          you’re transporting the gun illegally in Maryland. (a) and (c) are Maryland law; (b) is federal law.

          I don’t think you necessarily need any documentation as far as the trip to/from the gun store is concerned, although a membership card to the range or a receipt of a purchase could help. If you’re not between your home and the range/shop/etc. when stopped, then you could be in trouble.

          I don’t think there’s technically a gun registry in Maryland (as far as someone moving into the state and having to register the gun). I think they do keep a registry of all handgun purchases/transfers. Maryland really, really sucks with regard to gun laws. They’re trying to out-Jersey New Jersey.

        • SCOTUS in Heller and in McDonald has attempted to force Washington D.C. and Illinois to respect the Second Amendment. How’s that working out so far? (Answer: grudgingly and their slick lawyers are looking for every possible avenue to subvert the ruling and make it difficult to exercise your RKBA.)

          We can hope for support from SCOTUS, but I damn sure would not depend on it being our savior.

          Assuming Maryland decided to push this case, and assuming Mr. F was finally exonerated at the Supreme Court level, how much time, money and aggravation would have been expended before the ruling? And how much money would both he and his wife’s divorce lawyers have made in the meantime?

        • @Delmarva Chip:

          Thanks for the info. If one can’t have an unloaded and cased gun in the trunk of one’s car without having to explain why, things are in pretty bad shape in MD.

      • This is a fear I have when I move every two years. I don’t let the movers move my firearms. I do it myself. I do follow the speed limit to the letter and ensure I follow all traffic laws when carrying firearms just so I have a much lower chance to get pulled over.

  11. This is just a bizarre story… I can’t tell you how mad I’d be if this happened to me. I used to drive through Maryland every now and then on my way to Michigan from Virginia, obeying all the gun laws along the way… I can’t imagine being harassed like this by MD cops.

  12. In Virginia, your CHP is tied to your license plate. Funny, I’ve never had a cop ask me if I was carrying.

    • They ask me about 50% of the time, and I tell them when they don’t.

      Never had an issue with Prince William cops, they’re generally very CCW friendly in my experience.

      • Same in my area of Florida. The worse I have got so far is, “do you have it on you” and “Please don’t make any sudden moves toward it”

      • Exactly. I just signed on with the VCDL. Told them to thank everyone who voted for T-Mac so they could have blow jobs.

    • Isn’t the VA CHP database essentially sealed? To the point where when I submitted mine, the clerk at the courthouse said I couldn’t even inquire about the status because she couldn’t tell me anything about it? I can understand Virginia LEOs being able to access it, but not out of state.

  13. They know who we are. It’s the info age. Unless you live in a cave with no outside contact or communication and all your guns were pre 1899 they know you as a gun owner. And even if you live in the cave, they know where it’s at.

    The only thing that stops them from a major power grab is that we are so many. Between good cops, good soldiers, vets and gun owners we have overwhelming numbers and they know it.

  14. All LEO’s in Texas can see right away whether one holds a Texas concealed handgun license. It’s linked to your driver’s license record. Tx. Dept. of Public Safefy (state troopers) administers both licensing apparatus. Tx. LEO’s can also verify whether an out of state carry license is valid, but that, like out of state warrants, doesn’t just automatically pop up.

    I would bet the MD cop just fished to see if the driver had one and Florida told him he did. Or perhaps the FBI told him. After all, they run the NICS on carry licensees monthly.

    Let this be a teachable moment: do not talk to the police!

    See how they took an honest answer about a perfectly legal issue and turned it against him? They’ll compare what you say with others’ statements, with the physical evidence, and even against your own statements (which is why interrogations last hours and ask the same questions.)

    Any mistake, misstep, guess or assumption, or even truthful statement, you make that conflicts with something else is sufficient to jam you up but good. “We can resolve this right now” is jackbooted thug code for “Just confess now so I can shove your butt in a cell, impound your car, strand your wife and children, and still go home on time.”

    • Florida’s CWFL is part of the FL Dept. of Agriculture and AFAIK isn’t attached to your drivers license in any way shape or form.

        • I have a Florida LEO family member and he can access the Dept. of Agriculture database from his squad car but, it’s a completely different database and all accesses are logged into the system. In other words, he can’t do it willy-nilly.

          • Yeah, further conversation with a currently employed LEO yielded this: “We do have ability to confirm whether a person has a valid CWL from our computers by typing in their CWL number or SSN. The tab on the computer screen where this is done is the same place where we would check a serial number on a firearm to see if it is stolen.”

            So as I said, they can verify that a presented CWFL is valid, but they can’t just look it up at random. FL licenses don’t have the SSN on them, and he didn’t present his CWFL, so that again just leads back to the question of “How did the MTAP cop obtain that information?”

    • Jonathan — I agree. Texas LEOs when they run your Driver’s License will see that you have a CHL. BUT, they do not have that linked to your vehicle license plates (unless that has changed recently).

      I would still offer my CHL, along with my DL to a LEO even when not carrying because I’d rather have him ask the question right up front and get an answer than to wonder the entire walk back to my vehicle.

      • I agree. Once stopped, it’s probably best to offer both licenses, as a show of good faith. You can look good while pretending you didn’t know that the officer already knows you’re licensed to carry.

        There actually has been a lot of connectivity done lately. License plate is connected to registered owner’s driver’s license, which in turn is connected to Tx carry license. The purpose goes to vehicle thefts, to know whose car this is, but more so to the new “TexasSure” program.

        That links databases between the cops, the vehicle registration dept., and the dept. of insurance to know who’s driving uncovered. Links VIN, plate, registration and policy numbers. Gone are the days when someone could print out their own fake insurance I.D. and show it when stopped or renewing registration.

      • Your state laws may vary. In Washington we are NOT required to inform any LEO that were are licensed OR carrying unless they specifically ask, at which time we are required to provide the CPL and disclose if we are carrying or not. In some jurisdictions (Seattle) the officer will then take your pistol into “protective custody” until the encounter ends.

        If you are considering showing your unconstitutional government license to exercise your Second Amendment RKBA as a default option I would certainly keep your local laws and regulations in mind when you do it. Would Mr. F’s situation have been any different if he had volunteered to this thug that he had a Florida permit?

        In my case I will never volunteer such information, especially in Seattle, as I really don’t want some cop I don’t know handling my loaded pistol or searching for a reason not to give it back to me. YMMV.

  15. The state grabbing at this kind of authority is a concern, but what’s even worse is that a majority of the population in states like this allow it to happen or outright support it.

    • Yut. How many times have you heard “if you’re not breaking any laws, you have nothing to worry about?”

      • “Yut. How many times have you heard “if you’re not breaking any laws, you have nothing to worry about?””

        I’m hard-pressed to think of a more stupid statement than that; EVERYBODY breaks the law.

      • With an unknown number of unaccountable, unelected, government alphabet agencies given the authority to promulgate reams of regulations that have the force of law, how can you ever know whether or not you are breaking the law? And in many cases you can be arrested for breaking the law of a foreign country you can’t pronounce the name of and had no idea had a law prohibiting what you are doing. (Exotic hardwoods, for example.)

  16. Be polite and respectful at all times…
    1) I don’t consent to searches.
    2) Before I answer any questions, I would like to speak with my attorney.
    3) I’d like to leave now, am I free to go?

  17. There’s actually a pretty simple way the cop could have known this guy had a Carry License. I carry my license right there in the wallet with my Driver’s License. If I went to hand my DL to a cop, it’s quite possible he would see my Carry License too. No need for grand conspiracies about record-sharing. It was probably right there in front of the cop’s eyes.

    • That’s my bet, but the officer would need to know what a FL CWFL looks like to assume that it was one. They would only get a slight glimpse of it when i hand over my DL if I wasn’t carrying (like that ever happens).

    • If that were the case the officer would have reacted at that point and time, not turn his back and walk back to his car.
      He asked about the gun only after he ran his drivers license.
      From his actions it appears he somehow discovered Filippidis was a gun owner when he ran the license check.

  18. Let us say that Mr. Filippidis is telling us the truth …

    I think the most likely situation is that the only thing the cop knew was that Mr. Filippidis had a concealed carry license. And if the cop knew that Mr. Filippidis had a concealed carry license, he would assume that Mr. Filippidis had a gun and see if Mr. Filippidis would admit to having it. Of course cops are smart enough not to ask politely. Instead, they just demand, “Tell me where the gun is!” and see if you cave-in and tell them.

    I don’t doubt for a microsecond that Homeland Security has a list of every concealed handgun license holder in the U.S. and makes that list available to any police agency which hates the Second Amendment. There is no federal legislation whatsoever that prohibits the feds from keeping a list of who has a concealed handgun carry license. Thus there is no way that Homeland Security is going to pass up on that opportunity.

    That is my hypothesis and I am sticking with it.

    • It’s a reasonable hypothesis. And if the quotes of the wife’s comments to the cop are accurate, and he accepts that sort of thing, then Fillipidis has bigger problems. He better start making his protocols with his gun stone clear to his wife, or stop carrying. If she runs through that kind of BS when a cop comes to the house it could get ugly.

      • I am reminded of the angry driver giving the highway patrolman attitude during a traffic stop. The cop turns to the wife in the passenger seat and asks, “Is he always like this?”

        “Oh no,” she replies. “He’s quite pleasant when he’s sober.”

    • It would certainly be consistent with everything else the Obama admin does. Is it logical to keep tabs on people who have already passed a background check if you are concerned with security? Not so much. But it is logical to keep tabs on people who will as a group will lean conservative if you are concerned with persecuting your political opponents any way you can.

  19. In Missouri, the state police illegally gave a copy of all CCW holders over to the Social Security Admin b/c some investigator asked and claimed he was looking into “fraud”. SSA claims they couldn’t read the disk, but it was enough that the legislature changed the law and now the county sheriff handles the permitting and they no longer put your picture on it. Hmmm . . . . . . I wonder now if this is how they are getting this info?

    • I’m sure there are a million illegal or quasi-legal side doors that haven’t been shut yet.

      The one I’ve seen often at the Federal level goes like this:
      A. What’s the deal with somebody?
      B. [Clickety-clickety-click of keys] I dunno. Hey, I need to hit the men’s room. I’ll be right back.
      A. [Looks at record on terminal]
      B. You didn’t look did you?
      A. Nice day, isn’t it?

  20. You are never under a legal obligation to answer a police officer’s questions, and it never helps in a traffic stop. There are no awards for answering 10 out of 10 questions correctly.

    Best advice is pretend you don’t speak English. If you can’t fake that, then “Good morning officer, I understand you have a job to do, but I am not going to answer your questions.” Immediate answer will be “why not!?” to which you reply, “That is a question, and I just told you, I’m not going to answer your questions.”

    • I’m not convinced that not answering any questions at all is helpful. You may get more harassment from a bad cop that way.

      What I tend to do on the occasion that I am stopped, I’ll give relatively short answers until I can get an idea of what type of cop it is … whether it’s one who is going to respect my rights or not (there are some out there that actually play by the correct rules). Whenever I’ve been stopped (generally for speeding or for a minor problem with a tail light or something) most of the interactions have generally been either respectful or reasonably positive.

      When they ask me if I know why they stopped me, I basically just say “no I do not.” It’s accurate (I can’t read his/her mind), gives away nothing, and admits to nothing. And it also doesn’t immediately set up an adversarial relationship with the cop. If I simply start out with “are you detaining me or am I free to go” or “I’m not saying anything without a lawyer” then at best, they get irritated, and at worst, they come up with some BS excuse to have a K9 unit show up, e.g. “I think I smell pot.”

      If they say that I was speeding, or whatever, I’ll generally just say “oh.” It’s a meaningless response, but it is a response. It doesn’t admit guilt, and doesn’t give anything away. It’s just an acknowledgement that the cop said something. Short, relatively meaningless answers are how I generally respond if that’s a possibility.

      Not all cops are bad, but obviously there are some bad ones out there. I don’t have any great interest in pissing them off and having them conduct a psuedo-legal or illegal search of my car. I don’t really have the legal resources to get involved with a drawn-out battle for my rights, so I’d prefer to avoid that if I can help it. I’d rather the cop think of me as “just another guy speeding” and be non-memorable to them.

      • Not all cops are bad, and not every pit bull will bite you in the nuts. Problem is, until they make their move you have no way to tell them apart. I am very wary of pit bulls I do not know personally.

      • Back in the day I owned a Porsche, color: “arrest me red” as I was told by a highway patrolman on one of the many stops.

        One morning I was late for a presentation and got stopped. I knew how fast I was going (they were ready to block the freeway ahead of me) so when the officer came to my door I opened the window just 1-inch an handed him my license and registration and said “I have nothing to say”.

        I got a speeding ticket for the maximum speed that the helicopter that was tracking me could do, exactly 108 MPH. That’s because I was pulling away from it.

        Just say, “I have nothing to say” and go on your way.

  21. The 4th Amendment prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures. False imprisonment – which the long roadside detention amounts to – is a criminal act. The leaking or hacking of Florida’s concealed carry database is also illegal. Mr. Filippidis should contact pro-gun lawyers and sue not only Maryland, but the officers involved. If people don’t stand up to this sort of illegal activity in court the oathbreakers who once swore to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States will be given a free pass to do whatever they want. Police chiefs should terminate employees like these and police unions should not defend them.

    • “The Maryland”? Did the rules of language change while I was asleep? Or is this some regional dialect I don’t know about?

      • Kinda like The PRKA. The MAryland. They’re so special you have to say it that way or they get offended, wet their pants, and Al Sharpton kills you in the name of equality.

    • You forgot the insidious threat of desertification due to the unstoppable advance of global warming-change!

  22. The eldest twin daughters were patted down,

    According to the new story, the twin girls — Nasia and Yianni — are 17 years old. The story does not mention whether 13-year-old Gina was searched.

    So far, no complaints from the ACLU, or the other usual suspects, about “stop and frisk” in this case. Because, you know, uh, guns…

    • Well, that’s why I sat on it since Tuesday. Because the only source of any information whatsoever is Mr. Filippidis. I will keep an eye on the Treehouse to see what their records request turns up, but it could be as much as a month before that bears out.

      • They have some more information in another post.

        Maryland State has a network of technical security databases which access the databases of all other states who comply and coordinate with them. For states who do not willfully comply, or those who are not set up to align technically, Maryland mines data from various LEO systems.

        Maryland has a rather innocuous sounding name for the intelligence hub which contains this data, it’s called Maryland Coordination and Analysis Center.

        The intelligence analysis hub has access to, and contains, Florida’s CCW list (among other identification systems) and mines the state’s database systems for vehicle plate numbers of the holders. These license plate numbers are then stored in a cross referencing database within the Maryland Coordination and Analysis Center.

    • I would love to here something from the Maryland coppers side of things. Unfortunately, it will take a court trial to get that info out of the commies. Yes, I said it, Maryland has been infiltrated by commies.

  23. After 46 years living in the hell hole Peoples Republik of Libtard Maryland I moved to a FREE Redstate. I couldn’t stomach the corrupt liberal cr@p anymore. Md is famous for crabs, libtards and stolen elections.

    I won’t return to visit anyone, or travel in or through ANY blue idiot communist state.

    There is NOTHING in the story that doesn’t sound true to me – doubt it? Drive through with an NRA bumper sticker and see what happens.

    • Methinks that’s just what Mr. Filippidis did, forgot to remove his NRA sticker when driving through MD.

    • Wouldn’t it be great to be a multi-millionaire and fund a bait car with NRA stickers pasted all over it with a bunch of hidden cameras and drive through blue states and see what you can dig up.

      • It would be fun, in a Candid Cop Camera sorta way, and it wouldn’t take a multi-millionaire to do it.

      • Might want to avoid New Mexico on the way to California, what with all the cavity searches and what not.

  24. Here in NC when your DL is run by a LEO they automatically know if you have a carry permit or if you have had one in the past. Even though this is a fairly firearms friendly (unintentional alliteration) state, in my view this amounts to a de-facto gun registration. What’s worse it the question about whether or not your own guns and how you store them that is asked on my City’s home alarm system monitoring permit application form. I’m a little uncomfortable with that one too.

    • You need a PERMIT for a burglar alarm system? You can’t see it, but my jaw is on the floor! What is the justification for requiring a permit for a burglar alarm?

    • In Florida, the CCW licenses are NOT linked to DL nor the license plate. It requires a special request from a different data base to get that info. Some crap has been pulled. The Florida licenses have NEVER been maintained by the state police and never will be.

      • No, but every PD and Sheriff’s Office keeps their own notes on every person they have contact with. If you ever handed them you CWP along with your license “just to be friendly” it’s now part of those notes, and they can be shared with impunity. It’s not an “illegal registry” as long as that wasn’t the main reason for making the notes… And, of course, it never is, even if the notes contgain absolutely no other information except for that… Its kinda like that bulletin board of wanted persons, guaranteed to have a great assorment of descriptions that ensure any false detention or false arrest has a backup to say “well, he looked like this guy here, so that’s probable cause.” Why do you think they have “wanted” bulletins still on the board from 35 years ago relating to petit theft? That guy fills a hole in the physical descriptions that ensures no matter who they harass, there’s an excuse…

  25. I can think of a few explanations, none too pretty

    1. He had bought a gun as a resident of another state sometime in the past that did have such records…even that I doubt. That sort of instant, detailed sharing is unlikely (ever look at the CA registry…I know under my name there is a pistol…that same pistol is under at least 2 other names)

    2. He assumed Florida= gun

    3. The guy had a CCW from before 2006, and Maryland had that info.

  26. Okay, I get many of you saying ‘Do not talk to the police.’ but given a situation like this you have an infraction of the law so the police are in the ‘reasonable suspicion’ mindset. Refusal to talk to the police turns into the ‘probable cause’ mindset for the police. What happens next? Please watch the detention and arrest of Leonard Embody in Downtown Nashville from July 2013 as an example of this.

    • Exercising your 5th Amendment Right does not negate any of the others, including the 4th. Probable Cause does not attach upon exercising the 5th.

      A LEO might try to go into that mode as a mindset, but he’s opening himself and his agency up for a Title 1983 lawsuit in Federal Court if he does.

      And cops are taught this stuff CONSTANTLY….continuing education, if you will (we had to do monthly training on 4th, 5th and 6th Amendment issues taken from real cases).

      Therefore, any cop violating the 4th on the basis of “he wouldn’t answer my questions” KNEW he was violating it; he could not hide behind stupid, lame excuses.

      Asking “Do you have a gun?” could meet the reasonable suspicion standards (not probably cause) given by Terry v Ohio, but only if the suspicions were reasonable ARTICULABLE suspicions. Even there, the scope is fairly narrow.

      • While you are technically correct, on the side of the road, they do as they please and fix it in the report.

        You know the phrase “Better to ask forgiveness than permission?” There are no checks and ballances in Law Enforcement. The Judge, the Prosecutor, the Public Pretenders, the Cops, etc… They’re all part of the Judicial Branch. Still no idea where the Constitutional Authority to create police ever came from…

        Much the same that there are NO checks and ballances outlined for this made-up police force that has no right or authority to even exist… How could there be? It isn’t supposed to exist, so why would there be any form of checks and ballances for it? Of course, this is the very reason it was invented, if you can’t find a loophole to seize power away fromt he people, manufacture one. But, (as usual) I digress…

        It’s really easy to ask forgiveness from a bunch of people who are all your friends and know that they answer to nobody. And, to make it worse, qualified immunity… “I was performing my duty, so I’m not liable for anything ever. What you think judgie? Yep, I agree. Case dismissed.” Or, better yet, prosecutor never does anything… No attorney wants to handle the civil case for fear of retaliation… What civil case is worth having your family executed by cops?

        Unless you’re, unfortunately, experienced and willing to take some chances, STFU is the best policy.

  27. As a Florida gun owner with an CCL, I was told by the guy teaching the safety class I had to take to get it, that even though I had no duty to inform, it was a good idea to give the officer your CCL if you were pulled over while carrying. I am willing to bet he was told the same thing, and gave it to the cop when he gave them his license. Everything else after that point was just a little man with a big badge.

    • It’s not legally required so I don’t feel the need. It just makes them nervous and since they have powerful unions and the government willing to rush to their defense, I don’t want to make them nervous. Who knows WTF they might do?

      • And for someone to make this statement sincerely shows that various governments in the US have broken their contract with the people. Police should use force only to back up their moral and legal authority, not replace their moral and legal authority with force.