Annals of Gun Control: Heavily Armed Drug Cartels Defeat Mexican Military

Burnt out vehicles used by gunmen smolder on an intersection, a day after street battles between gunmen and security forces in Culiacan, Mexico, Friday Oct. 18, 2019. Mexican security forces backed off an attempt to capture a son of imprisoned drug lord Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman after finding themselves outgunned in a ferocious shootout with cartel enforcers that left at least eight people dead and more than 20 wounded, authorities said. (AP Photo/Augusto Zurita)

The Mexican drug cartels have grown even bolder and stronger in recent years. Just last week, in the Sinaloa state, drug cartel forces defeated the Mexican military forces and police in street battles in the capital city.

Yes, the narcos defeated Mexican government forces in an all-out battle. Can you say “failed state?”

As Claire Berlinsky writes . . .

The forces that emerged were in the literal sense awesome and awful. Heavy weaponry that would be familiar on any Iraqi, Syrian, or Yemeni battlefield was brought to bear. More and worse: custom-built armored vehicles, designed and built to make a Sahel-warfare technical look like an amateur’s weekend kit job, were rolled out for their combat debut. Most critically, all this hardware was manned by men with qualities the Mexican Army largely lacks: training, tactical proficiency, and motivation.

Then the coup de grace: as the Chapo sons’ forces engaged in direct combat with their own national military, kill squads went into action across Culiacán, slaughtering the families of soldiers engaged in the streets.

Mexico has strict gun control, with a ban on military-style guns and calibers, exactly one gun store in the entire nation, along with gun (and gun owner) registration. What’s more, Mexico imposes long prison terms for possession of a single round of prohibited ammunition.

Does this make our southern neighbor a crime-free utopia as Beto O’Rourke would have you believe? Hardly. With over 33,000 murders last year and this year’s numbers up 3.3% over that, Mexico makes Chicago-style violence seem bucolic.

(AP Photo/Hector Parra)

The Federalist has a piece on the latest narco violence south of the Rio Grande.

The southwest U.S. border might be quieter now than it was this spring at the height of the migrant crisis, but south of the Rio Grande the Mexican state is disintegrating.

Last Thursday in the city of Culiacan, the capital of Sinaloa state, a battle erupted between government forces and drug cartel gunmen after the Mexican military captured two sons of jailed drug kingpin Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman. The elder son, Ivan, was quickly freed by his men, who overpowered government forces and secured his release. Ivan then launched an all-out siege of the entire city in an effort to free his younger brother, Ovidio.

The ensuing scene could have been mistaken for Syria or Yemen. Footage posted on social media Thursday showed burning vehicles spewing black smoke, heavily armed gunmen blocking roads, dead bodies strewn in the streets, and residents fleeing for cover amid high-caliber gunfire.

Armed with military-grade weapons and driving custom-built armored vehicles, cartel henchmen targeted security forces throughout Culiacan, launching more than one dozen separate attacks on Mexican security forces. They captured and held hostage eight soldiers, then kidnapped their families. Amid the fighting, an unknown number of inmates escaped from a nearby prison. At least eight people were killed and more than a dozen were injured.

The eight-hour battle ended when government forces, outgunned and surrounded, without reinforcements or a way to retreat, received an order directly from Mexican President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador to release their prisoner and surrender.

That’s right, Mexico’s President told his own military to stand down.

Lopez Obrador later defended this decision, insisting that his security strategy is working and saying, “Many people were at risk and it was decided to protect people’s lives. I agreed with that, because we don’t do massacres, that’s over.”

Gun control doesn’t lead to crime-free utopias. It leads to predatory violent criminals and government tyranny. When only the government and criminals have guns, the strong victimize the weak with impunity.

Image courtesy Oleg Volk. Used with permission. blog.olegvolk.net

Right now, Mexico finds itself doing a good impression of a failed state. What’s more, people are left helpless in the face of drug cartel henchmen and sometimes-corrupt police and military forces.

(AP Photo/Augusto Zurita)

Let’s not follow Mexico’s failed state down the road of gun bans and gun confiscations.

comments

  1. avatar vvactor says:

    this is how the 2A is designed to work here, albeit with law abiding citizens banding together against a tyrannical state. let this be the example you cite the next time someone says “oh, you think your AR15 is going to defeat the US Army??”

    1. avatar Art out West says:

      It’s almost like a well trained, equipped, and organized posse/militia is necessary for the security of a free society. The city of Culiacan has a population of nearly a million. That could easily provide a posse/militia of 100,000 men. 100,000 honest decent armed men could destroy the criminal gangs in no time.

      The army and police cannot stops the cartels. Armed, and trained honest citizens would. Michuacan taught us that.

      1. avatar Merle 0 says:

        There was actually a citizen militia in northern Mexico some years back, that was successfully fighting and winning against the cartels. The mexican government couldn’t have that and instead of using that momentum to take the fight to the cartels, they threatened the militia and demanded they hand over their arms. Unfortunately I believe they did.

        1. avatar Truly says:

          The Mexican government and the Cartels are on the same team. It’s called “Team f*ck-over the people of Mexico”.

        2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Can’t have that cash flow interrupted…

        3. avatar Rattlerjake says:

          Not true. That militia still have their arms and are still in force but they are only operating in a relatively small geographical location, and do so to protect their families, businesses and livelihoods. The government and cartels ravage the rest of mexico unimpeded. It’s important to note that that militia slaughtered the cartel thugs when they fought them and they told the government to stay out, which they did.

        4. avatar Merle 0 says:

          Rattler jack, that’s great time hear. I had heard the Mexican government felt more threatened by the militia and wanted them gone. I’m glad to hear they’re still around and still kicking ass. A testament to how no matter how “badass” an evil group of people The cartel or ISIS think they are, ordinary men and women defending their homes can come together to defeat tyranny.

      2. avatar Lost Down South says:

        > That could easily provide a posse/militia of 100,000 men. 100,000 honest decent armed men could destroy the criminal gangs in no time.

        I don’t know about that. “Decent men” up against berserkers with absolutely no morals who might be high on their own supply. That’s a pretty tough gig when you have a family at home, have only “allowed” arms, minimal training, and no body armor or support.

        That plus vicious torture tactics for those caught opposing them…or killing (maybe worse) all members of your family if they ID you.

        1. avatar Merle 0 says:

          There is actually a militia in northern Mexico that has routinely defeated the cartel, what we were talking about above. It’s not such a rare occurrence. The several groups of people that were primarily before the war of civilians fighting ISIS are another example.

      3. avatar Carnitas says:

        Dude, what you saw was a militia drive out the military. People in Culiacan are more loyal to the Sinaloa Cartel than they are to the Mexican Government. Many of those people who were armed are not cartel members, they are sympathizers. Sure the dudes in technicals, and firing .50 cal’s are likely cartel members. But many of the other guys with AK’s and AR’s are not. The fact of the matter is that Mexicans do not trust government, their loyalty is to their friends, family, and even province.

      4. avatar BEN CARDENAS says:

        Many of the Law enforcement are on the cartels payroll. Plata o Plomo. I heard through reliable sources that El Presidente is on El Cartel’s payroll. Seems like everyone with any pull is on El Cartel’s payroll.

    2. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      The 2nd Amendment is the difference between having a fighting chance and no chance at all. Trump was right about building the wall. We can’t get the damned thing built fast enough.

    3. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Well, they had belt fed machine guns, including .50 cals. I heard they had grenades and RPGs. They naturally have armored SUVs and trucks as daily drivers. Plus, body armor and some drugs to make fighting easier.

      I don’t think anyone around the states, who would stand up to the U.S., has armored vehicles with .50s mounted on them and some RPGs laying around for military vehicles.

      Dozens of cops were killed because they didn’t have the same equipment the cartels had. The military had to stand down and shake hands with the cartel as they freed their fighters from the government.

      The cartel went around the town telling all the civilians it’s best they go home or hide because death is coming. Everyone was terrified because they thought the cartel were going to execute them all but they just came to tell them to go home without taking the main roads.

      Cops in U.S. complain about how dangerous their job is in America. Go be a cop in Mexico for a year then come back to tell us how dangerous it is to be a cop in the ever increasingly safer U.S. Tell us how much safer it was when you didn’t have to worry about licensed gun owners carrying their guns around town in Mexico.

    4. avatar Tom says:

      Fact is that if the Mexican government weren’t so corrupt, this problem would not be as out of hand as it is.

      1. avatar BEN CARDENAS says:

        They have a more polluted swamp than we do, simple as that.

    5. avatar Carnitas says:

      I agree and I have been telling people that if we were to have a civil war here it will look alot like the situation in Mexico. Most of those people in Culiacan driving the military out are not Sinaloa Cartel Members, they are sympathizers who support and trust the cartel more than the government. In other words they are normal people, who do not trust the Mexican government. So yes, when someone says “do you think you can take on the US military with your little rifle” I say perhaps…I cannot beat them in direct confrontation, but all it takes is one defector/corrupt member to tell me who their friends, family, or children are, and after they are massacred see if they still have the will to fight. This is why the Mexican Government cannot control these guys: Mexicans are inherently skeptical of Government and are more loyal to their friends, family, and even province, so all it takes is one defector or corrupt member of the military and law enforcement, or even capturing one of them and torturing them. Once they learn who they are, they quickly find out who their friends and family are and massacre them. This quickly depletes a conventional forces’s will to fight, and often they defect too. This can also happen here too.

      In other words, if shit hit the fan here it will not be a conventional war, it will be a guerrilla war, and often they prevail. So to those who denigrate those who have AK’s and AR’s, my response is “no we will not confront their tanks and drones, but after their families are massacred will they really have any will to fight?”

      http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2019/10/who-is-pepe-sierra-head-of-chapitos.html

  2. avatar American Patriot says:

    That’s not breaking News now is it. The ones running the country have the guns & it’s definitely not the people! That’s what the left here wants to emulate & thus why they want to take our guns!

    1. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

      How can you tell who’s who? The police also deal drugs after hours. The only people who don’t have guns are the poor peasants. I suppose it’s like Bosnia/Serbia. Choose a side. If not, you’ll be the prey for both sides.

    2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Speaking of what is or is not breaking news and who is who, how do we know that we can trust the photos and video? Just a week ago ABC World News showed ALTERED video of the Knob Creek, Kentucky annual recreational machine gun shoot and told everyone that it was the country of Turkey attacking the Kurds in northern Syria. Note that ABC altered the video (darkened the participant’s cars and tents in the foreground) to hide the fact that it was video of the Knob Creek shoot.

      1. avatar American Patriot says:

        Whether or not it actually happen, it probably did since the cartels run mexico. Now do I actually give a shit….No! Not my country…Not my problem! Do I believe any thing the liberal media says…..Not on your life, and yeah I know about Know Creek video.

  3. avatar I Haz A Question says:

    I find it interesting that groups of the cartel’s forces broke off from the main fighting and went out to slaughter the soldiers’ families. It’s often been said in forum discussions (such as TTAG) that full gun confiscation and civil war here in the USA could hopefully be avoided by the mere fear that “traitor” LEOs responsible for the deaths of even a few innocent Americans (defending themselves from a tyrannical government) would result in the families of those LEOs becoming targets. I’m not advocating it, but I can see the tactical logic of employing that strategy as a deterrent.

    That being said, the situation in Mexico is something I don’t ever wish to see replicated here.

    1. avatar Dan W says:

      The south west will be Mexico north in a couple of decades. There’s no reason to think it won’t be like current Mexico.

      1. avatar DesertDave says:

        We in AZ respectfully disagree!

    2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

      Scorched Earth strategy is a bitch, but it IS effective… I will NEVER condone the taking of innocent life and would if possible put myself in front of them, victory without honor is no victory… The Cartels have no regard for human life, many are sadistic, soulless assholes who think nothing of crushing an infants head (hmmmmm, Democrats?) or putting a bullet in an otherwise innocents head..

      1. avatar "keep yur paws off my dead guy" possum says:

        Victory is victory, honor has nothing to do with it

        1. avatar Ragnar says:

          But the victor has to live with his conscience. Just be sure that when you fight, you fight to win, but don’t let the victory result in something worse than what you were fighting against.

        2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Then you know nothing of either one….

      2. avatar DingDongDitch says:

        Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls, and ask the ghosts if honor matters. Their silence is your answer.

        1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          It matters to me and I am the only person I have to answer to…

    3. avatar Sian says:

      Why should it be automatically assumed that among politicians that issue the orders, and the jackboots that carry it out, that both should feel guaranteed that the safety of their families is not in question, when they bring their tyranny in directly through our doors and windows with innocent families in the crossfire?

      1. avatar James Campbell says:

        And having taken an oath to uphold the Constitution, and performing their duties in a manner RESPECTFUL of the Bill of Rights (as defined by the Federalist Papers, NOT the beurocrats/legislators/career politicians), they willvhave nobody but THEMSELVES to blame for the horrors.
        The US Patriots will have to resolve the swamp issue after the attempted gun confiscation (AKA; THEFT), should there be any rats that haven’t scurried away from DC and the State caps.

    4. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      The cartel forces didn’t break off from the main attack. This appears to have been a well-planned, coordinated exercise. The main attack tied down the Army and police while the cartel hit squads went after politicians, police, and soldiers’ families. This tells me that the cartels had excellent intelligence and had this plan in place long before they pulled the trigger. This shows that, organizationally and operationally, they can compete head-to-head with the Mexican police and military and come out on top. Probably the only viable military force in Mexico at the moment is the Mexican marines. One of my friend’s in Monterrey once commented that more than a few Mexican marines didn’t seem to speak a lot Spanish . . .

      1. avatar Carnitas says:

        You are right the Mexican Marines, or “Marina” is really the only Mexican force that has not been infiltrated or corrupted, and the cartels do fear these guys. But there are only so many of them compared to all of the corrupt military and LEOS in Mexico

    5. avatar Carnitas says:

      When people talk about a civil war here, I imagine it will look a lot like Mexico. No people will not directly confront the military and police, they will simply target soldiers and LEO’s families, and all it takes is a few corrupt cops or soldiers. In fact, there was a soldier who defected and identified soldiers families, which really weakened their will to fight. This happens all the time in Mexico: soldiers arrest or kill some narco, and there is usually a few corrupt insiders who inform the narco’s who the soldiers/LEO’s involved were, where they live, and who their friends and family are. A few years back when Mexican Marines killed and arrested members of the Zeta’s cartel, one of the soldiers involved was identified and a few days later they killed his entire family.

    6. avatar Carnitas says:

      Dude, that is how civil wars play out now. No one expects guerrillas to directly confront a conventional force. All if takes is a corrupt member of the military or defector to identify who his colleagues are, from there they find out where he lives and who his family and friends are, and after they are massacred, the conventional forces will to fight is weakened, a lot of them even become defectors as a result. This is how its been going on in Mexico for a long time. The Mexican military also has drones, tanks, attack helicopters, etc., but they still cannot get control of the situation.

  4. avatar Texican says:

    Since most of Mexico’s govt. is corrupt what actually precipitates the police and military doing their job and going after the drug lords? And the president couldn’t be bothered to send reinforcements? Did his bank account suddenly enlarge?

    1. avatar rt66paul says:

      This is the Darryl Gates school of policing. When it is too dangerous, just call them back to the station and let anarchy reign.

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        +1 for the vintage LAPD/Rodney King Riots reference.

        1. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

          Thanks, I knew that name sounded familiar. Couldn’t place it, tho.

        2. avatar Arizona Free says:

          That was the day I started carrying. When Reginald Denny got pulled out of his big rig and beaten I decided I would take five or six with me if it came to that. I’ve upgraded so now it’s forty or fifty but who’s counting.

        3. avatar Doug B says:

          Apparently Mr Denny, as of 2017 was “whereabouts unknown” but immediately prior to that he worked in a boat yard. According to the internet anyway. I checked “Attack on Reginald Denny” in Wikipedia where the incident is stated dryly and probably factually. What I came away with was how Mr. Denny is a reasonable, hard working man with forgiveness in his heart even after his ordeal. On the other hand the ignorant thugs who dragged an innocent man out of his truck and enjoyed beating him near to death remained such even after their gentle treatment by the hall of justice.
          I watched these videos during their original airing and there was no doubt what was going on. Yet a full blown trial was necessary so that the actions of these career thugs might be mitigated. Doesn’t seem fair and reasonable.
          Senior Coot out……….

        4. avatar Garrison Hall says:

          We probably shouldn’t forget that it was 3 Black people who saw what was happening to Denney and, acting independently, went to the scene and rescued him from the crowd. If they hadn’t done that, Denney probably would have died.

    2. avatar Southern Cross says:

      Several things I’m willing to bet money on. Members of the security forces were on the cartel’s payroll, so their “resistance” was token at best. The same people sold out their comrades’ families. And, the stand down was ordered by someone else on the cartel’s payroll.

      The Mexican government, police, military, and the drug cartels have united in a war against the people.

  5. avatar Rheopectic says:

    Where’s Vlad? The Commie slag is probably hiding from the truth as always.

    1. avatar Huntmaster says:

      He’s still in jail for child porn. The fake Vlad stand in will be checking in shortly.

    2. avatar Guesty McGuesterson says:

      If you say his name three times, he shows up in his Beetlejuice tuxedo. Don’t summon him.

      1. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

        I love the humor here. Clever. Witty. Smart.

    3. avatar pwrserge says:

      Pretty sure miner stopped using that alt after he got his ass handed to him too many times to stay credible.

    4. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      They say the early Fall weather in St. Petersburg is quiet pleasant. I’m sure Vlad is out enjoying walks in the countryside.

  6. avatar Merle 0 says:

    But but but building a wall and protecting the border is racist…

  7. avatar What would Spock say says:

    The embarrassment and optics of standing down and essentially retreating against cartel gunmen in a public pitched battle will cost much more in the long run than any civilian casualties ever could. This is bad juju

  8. avatar Mark N. says:

    What I found interesting is that through all of this shooting, five gunmen and one soldier were killed. This suggests that the cartel gunmen were shooting to intimidate, and to avoid killing the boss.

  9. avatar strych9 says:

    How is this shocking? The estimated value of drugs sold in this country in 2013 was $100 Billion (almost assuredly a lowball estimate), almost 8% of Mexico’s GDP.

    If the cartels were raking in something on the order of $1.5 Trillion per year we’d have almost no chance at controlling them either. Oh, wait, we already don’t!

    1. avatar jwm says:

      The real difference between us and mexico is that the .gov and the cartels are not the only ones armed.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        From the helpless citizen’s point of view that’s true. From a concern for human/civil rights position that’s true.

        From a crime control point of view there are a number of major differences. The first is the power balance between government and cartel. The second is how that power balance affects LE.

        2A or not, this country would be a war zone if the cartels were as comparatively powerful here as they are South of the border. That’s part of the very real danger is the Left’s proposals: they would greatly strengthen the cartels while enormously weakening LE. That’s your first big leap towards having the same situation here that you do in Mexico because the first major part of that is an absolute lack of respect for LE on the part of the criminal element.

        We don’t have that lack of respect here. Hopefully we never will.

        1. avatar strych9 says:

          Oh, and I should note that the 2A is tangential to all of that insofar as that the ROOT cause of the problems you see in Mexico and often in the rest of South and Central America is at lack of respect for property rights.

        2. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

          There have been numerous instances in the US of armed civilians coming to the aid of police. That option is not available in Mexico. Here one side or the other or even both might find members of the general population fighting against them.

          Legalize dugs. That will destroy cartels and criminal gangs faster and more thoroughly than any police or military action. When was the last time you heard of groups of liquor store or brewery employees getting into shoot outs with each other over territory or with law enforcement? Not since the repeal of prohibition.

          On top of that legal drugs would be manufactured by regular companies with standardized manufacturing practices and standard ingredients. Dosage would be listed right on the package. You wouldn’t have to worry about sellers adulterating the product and unintentional overdoses would end almost immediately.

  10. avatar DaveL says:

    What amazes me is that the news will openly run accounts of the cartel using mounted machine guns and rocket launchers, and the gun control stooges still dutifully regurgitate the claim that they’re getting their guns from gun shows along the border.

    1. avatar bryan1980 says:

      Yup, the cartels have more than enough money to buy whatever they want from places like China and North Korea, and to pay-off any officials to make sure it gets into their hands. Why would they bother buying semi-auto AK’s or AR’s at American guns shows and walking them across the border, when they can get the genuine article shipped directly to them, at a lower cost per unit? Plus, they could just take anything they wanted from the Mexican military, if need be.

  11. avatar daveinwyo says:

    Well, third time is the charm.
    When will the UN led invasion begin?
    When we/US takes control, AGAIN, let’s not give it back, but merge it with commiefonia and declare martial law.

    1. avatar jwtaylor says:

      Mexico never did anything bad enough to deserve California.

      1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

        Yeah they did, they gave it up in 1848 after Mexican-American War AND we actually PAID them for it!! Shame they didn’t have a bunch of heavily armed Cartels back then, California would still be their problem AND there would be NO Schiff, Pelosi, Fienstien, Swalwell, Mad Maxine or Gavin Newsom.. Grow a pair Mexico…

        1. avatar Garrison Hall says:

          Well, Mexico actually had something like the cartels. The Texas/Mexico border was unstable well into the 1920’s. Border banditry was a serious problem which is why we had the Texas Rangers. Mexican border bandits did not like tangling with the Rangers. Nor did they like tangling with the King Ranch vaqueros. Texas history during that time was interesting.

        2. avatar Hugh Glass says:

          Rangers were formed to take on the Comanche.

    2. avatar Merle 0 says:

      We don’t want that mess.

  12. avatar Doug B says:

    I hope no one with any sense will say they didn’t see this coming.
    American Patriot hit the nail smack on the head by saying The people in power have guns…. not the common citizen.
    Among those with guns are the town police, the county sheriffs, the state police, the national guard, the FBI, CIA, Treasury, military. There’s corruption and duplicity everywhere. That and a complete lack of transparency are problematic.
    Sure we citizens can have guns and plenty of ammo, But take small comfort in that.
    We’re being scrutinized and tracked. How many of us have GPS systems and cell phones? Every internet site we check out asks if we want to allow them to know our location.
    Google, Face Book et al track us.
    Few of us can call upon other agencies, just as tanks, armored troop carriers, water cannon and heavy calibers seem scarce.
    Can we take heart? After all, this is the United States of America. We have a Constitution.
    Can’t happen here I suppose.
    Senior Coot out………………

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      Well, unless you use a VPN, tracker filters, and a hacked open-source OS non-Google phone. I do all three.

      It’s not easy to be completely invisible, but our Big Tech Overlords do not see everything.

      1. avatar Doug b says:

        Use all three? Sure most people do.

        1. avatar Eremeya says:

          I’m pretty sure most don’t. I am familiar with and have dabbled with all 3 but do not use all 3 on a daily basis.

        2. avatar Doug b says:

          Sorry Eremeya
          Guess I could have included …(sarcasm)…When I venture out to comment on articles I’m usually a bit more careful not to leave a hook for someone to snap on. Thought my meaning was clear enough as it was.
          Doug out……..

      2. avatar Prndll says:

        VPN’s do not make you invisible. VPN’s are not designed or meant to hide you on the web. People think that but it is not true.

        Nothing gets online without an IP. The internet is a two-way street. If you can see this website then it can see you. Using a VPN does not change that. Your ISP assigns you an IP address. They know that and so should you. That IP does not change based on your usage of a VPN. You can test this my disconnecting from your ISP then watch what happens to your VPN. Even the cookies you download record your IP as you transition between the two states of connection.

        There is and always has been one and only one way to be invisible. That is to NOT be connected.

        1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          True, but if you read my comment, you’ll see that’s why I chose to use the words “you can’t be completely invisible”…

          It’s not about disappearing, but you CAN minimize your footprint.

        2. avatar Southern Cross says:

          If you’re using a mobile device your provider will also have your SIM card ID on file.

      3. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

        “Well, unless you use a VPN,…”

        I sure hope it isn’t NordVPN :

        “Hackers steal secret crypto keys for NordVPN. Here’s what we know so far
        Breach happened 19 months ago. Popular VPN service is only disclosing it now.”

        https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/10/hackers-steal-secret-crypto-keys-for-nordvpn-heres-what-we-know-so-far/

    2. avatar Arizona Free says:

      There was a scene in We Were Soldiers where the Sargent Major was offered an M16 and his response was there would be plenty laying on the ground if he needed one.

  13. avatar Will Drider says:

    Mexico lost their drug war in the 70s. Then they watched the cartels war on each other through the 80s and 90s, until there was generally established Cartel Turf/Zones and they built and well armed their own enforcer armies. Cartels have always hit hard against those that play along. No one in Mexico is out of their reach and they escalate the violence with every example they make.

    Mexico can’t fix this, not our job either: BUILD THE WALL with gun towers!

  14. avatar Huntmaster says:

    WHO would want it! It’s a leftist hell hole.

  15. avatar GS650G says:

    Coming soon to your city. Open borders, resettlement, and distribution of illegals all over the US.

    It’s not too late but getting close. If MS13 decides to take over a town, suburb or half a city we will see this here.
    I’m keeping my .30 guns well oiled.

    1. avatar Dan W says:

      Keep em dirty from training.

  16. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    Legalizing drugs will not stop the violence in Mexico. You are a liar or a fool if you believe that.
    This is about “power flowing out the end of a gun”.

    The violence did not stop in states that legalized recreational marijuana. And the white marijuana dealers soon realized that the black marijuana dealers were correct. White dealers need guns too. To protect their property and their drug profits. From armed thieves.

    Libertarians don’t use reason. They believe in fantasy. You’re never going to change the culture of the drug cartels. But the Libertarians can pray to their “Flying Spaghetti Monster” and hopefully it will change the cartels way of thinking.

    1. avatar Dan W says:

      Not having guns on either side didn’t stop the Aztecs from piling up the skull pyramids.

    2. avatar Someone says:

      When was the last time you’ve heard about two competing liquor stores’ shootout? Prohibition? It works every time. To create a thriving black market.

      If one of gun grabbing schemes renders firearms illegal, expect those gangs to pick up the demand and sell guns on street corners like they do now with dope.

      1. avatar jwtaylor says:

        You know what cartels kill each other over? Avocados. Yep, the cartels make a pretty penny stealing and smuggling avocados. Behind drugs and fuel, avocados are some of the more commonly stolen and smuggled commodities. That trade is valuable, and for some, worth killing over.
        The drugs are part of it, but it’s not about the drugs. Americans need to understand that the cartels are about business, whatever that business is.
        This most recent episode is an example the level of control they have over the entire Sinaloan state. Ask anyone in Sinaloa or to a lesser extent Jalisco, “Who is in charge here? Who owns this land? No one with any sanity will tell you the government.

        1. avatar Broke_It says:

          This is what fascinates me about the rise of the narco terrorist. That person is still who they are drugs are no, it’s about obscene amounts of cash and the power and corruption that flows with it’s control. Drugs just happen to be a low hanging yet very productive fruit.

        2. avatar Chris T in KY says:

          Thanks for your comment. I remember you saying you have spent time in Mexico training people. It’s not about the object, the drug. Or the Avocado? Wow. I would never have thought about that possibility as a money maker. It’s about the culture of the Cartel it self.

          I will have to research avocado smuggling it seems? Amazing.

    3. avatar George Washington says:

      You know NOTHING about legalizing drugs… please keep your comments to yourself regarding drug prohibitions…. you’re making yourself look stupid…js

      1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

        I know all the reason the potheads have used to make their case of legalization. Including the racist statements they made in supporting legalization. Potheads are socialist progressive in their political orientation.

        They are no right friends of civil rights. They will trade human rights for their drug intoxication of choice.

  17. avatar Cruzo1981 says:

    When we decide to train Mexican police officers who end up forming their own cartels, they learn tactics from us…
    When we supply information and materials to cartels to fight other cartels we are just as guilty…
    Both are true of past administrations…
    We need a wall!!!

    1. avatar FirstFreedom says:

      I can only plead guilty to part of your charges. My US Army career included a stint as a weapons instructor to, among others, Mexican soldiers and federales. (At one time or another, I was assigned as a counter-guerrilla warfare and/or weapons instructor to most of Central and South America.) The Mexican personnel I worked with were pretty much disinterested, which surprised me since they (supposedly) had their lives on the line.

      Payback is hell. Some years later my lovely wife, 2 of our sons and I were traveling in Mexico and were in Chiapas when the following occurred. This was where the Zapatistas were active. We avoided traveling at night like the plague, but it happened one evening. I was stopped at a checkpoint manned with both military and federales. It turned into an armed robbery pretty quick, with the lieutenant in charge demanding that I empty my wallet of all cash. There were 5 or 6 armed personnel backing him up and I knew that this was more than I could handle with the very carefully concealed pistol I had on me, so I had little choice but to give it up, about $100 or so. After grabbing the money we were allowed to go. (It might have been worse, but there were many witnesses, other victims waiting in line.)

      I had the last laugh, though. (Permit me a little revenge.) We hadn’t gone more than 3 miles and were stopped at yet another checkpoint, this one commanded by a colonel who was the jefe for the area, which included the point where we were robbed. I actually recognized him as one of my trainees from years ago, so I took a chance and told him what happened to us at the previous point. I gave him a complete and accurate account — with the exception of the amount robbed from me. I told him that $1,000 was taken, and I figured the colonel would be expecting his cut from the lieutenant.

      Well, I don’t know what happened but the news was reporting that a lieutenant was missing from his post and that he had mysteriously disappeared… ¿Who knows?

  18. avatar James Campbell says:

    Hope Obama and Holder are proud the “Fast and Furious” guns they provided to Mexico drug cartels are still in use.
    Thanks Obama.

  19. avatar Paul says:

    Captain Jean Danjou’s spirit would have something to say about a military commander who fails so miserably in his mission. I celebrate Camerone Day every April 30th. The captain would have no patience with the coward who led this botched mission.

  20. avatar J says:

    Mexico will not be safe until we eliminate the demand for drugs in the U.S. just plain and simple. The users of drugs in the U.S. have driven this, plus our government entities that funneled drugs for money to support the Central American wars of the late 1970s, 1980s, and into the 1990s. As our population grows, there are more drug users and a system to supply them has not decreased. One of the problems is at times when there is no other course of action for low income areas of the U.S. seem to have the highest rates of crime and drug use. The Democrats do not care enough to want to uplift low income neighborhoods to increase employment opportunities and increase the standard of living in these areas to eliminate the use of drugs and violence. Look at Chicago, IL as an example. Democrats control the city and the state, but can not or will not do anything for these neighborhoods. They just want to institute more gun control as the only solution instead of targeting the real problem of economic disrepair of these low income neighborhoods as the main problem.

    1. avatar Someone says:

      “Mexico will not be safe until we eliminate the demand for drugs in the U.S. just plain and simple.”
      Hahaaa! Good one! How exactly do you “eliminate demand” for a product? You can eliminate users or traffickers if you have stomach for it, like in Singapore, Taiwan or Indonesia, but demand is not yours to do with what you wish.
      If you believe that only poor people use illegal drugs or that drug use is caused by low living standards I have a very nice bridge for sale.

    2. avatar Merle 0 says:

      Mexico won’t be safe ever. It’s essentially a big Somalia next door and our only hope of not catching some of that disease is to lock down the border with every measure we can think of. To include Napalm.

    3. avatar RMS1911 says:

      America will not be safe until we eliminate mexico plain and simple.
      There I fixed it for you.

      1. avatar Merle 0 says:

        Now there’s an idea.

        1. avatar James Campbell says:

          The US should have retained the Panama Canal, pushed the contintinal US border to the 1 mile SOUTH of the Canal, built a wall, and mined the mile below the Canal.

          Instead, our leaders GIVE the Canal away. Retards, the lot of them. Preserving a Republic is not a pretty thing in today world, eggs need breaking!

    4. avatar George Washington says:

      Please SHUT THE FK UP!!
      YOU MORON….. THE US CAN’T BE BLAMED FOR THE FK UP OF THAT SH!THOLE COUNTRY….
      KEEP THAT SH!T TO YOURSELF, YOU AUTISTIC RETARD…

    5. avatar GS650G says:

      Yeah I’m sure criminals will get real jobs if drugs are legalized. Like kidnapping.

  21. avatar MADDMAXX says:

    Most of Mexicos cops (the smart ones) are either actively working for the Cartels or are on the payroll for information or just to look the other way… The rest (the dead or soon to be dead ones) try to live honorable (albeit short) lives doing the right thing…

  22. avatar Timoth Toroian says:

    Have the MORONS who want open borders seen this?? These guys should be treated the same way ISIS was. There are no innocents. Take out their compounds.

    1. avatar Merle 0 says:

      They have and they would love to bring that shit here. Same way they want to import jihadis. The real question is if the left ever gets its dream of filing the country with cartels and jihadis, is who would win between the two of them.

  23. avatar NORDNEG says:

    Maybe they should revisit the Fast & Furious accusations again, let’s see here, Killery Clinton, Erick Holder, (who by the way was pardoned by the worst pres in American history), guns , guns, guns, plus the Mexican pres is a puss. There is your answer.

    1. avatar enuf says:

      So most of that made no sense at all.

      Hillary Bad. Yes, I agree.

      “Fast & Furious” was first done under Bush as “Wide Receiver”. Both bad, insanely stupid, incompetent, and nobody was punished for either.

      Eric Holder was pardoned? Where do you get that? And what for?

      1. avatar Anymouse says:

        At least Wide Receiver put trackers on the gun and killed the program when the bad guys started finding and removing them.

        1. avatar EWTHeckman says:

          The Bush administration also proved that such an operation didn’t work, but Obama administration did it anyway. The Bush administration was also trying to catch the bad guys. The Obama administration was apparently trying to create an excuse for more gun control.

        2. avatar enuf says:

          No, they did not put trackers on guns. They talked about approaching Raytheon for technology to install in guns to track them. But they never followed up. It’s in the OIG report on Wide Receiver:
          https://oig.justice.gov/reports/2012/s1209.pdf

          This is about two wrongs not making a right, one not excusing the other. Both were criminal. Both should have seen the ATF and DoJ people responsible criminally charged, prosecuted and jailed.

          On the one hand we can’t prosecute because these bureaucrats protect each other. On the other hand we cannot do it because it happened under both political parties. So punishing the party out of power puts a spotlight on the party in power for their similar crimes.

          Just another example of the mental illness that is political Partyism.

    2. avatar DaveL says:

      Fast & Furious was nothing, a handful of civilian-legal guns sent over to the cartels. What you really need to look at are all the US guns legally sold or given by our government to Mexican government forces, which subsequently “leaked” to the cartels.

      1. avatar enuf says:

        In numbers I agree that Wide Receiver and Fast & Furious are a drop in the bucket. The cartels do get a great many guns from the Mexican military thru direct theft or corruption. But they are also getting guns from South America, from Pacific Rim countries including China, also from Africa and Russia. A couple of Russians were recently arrested but protected from prosecution over a deal to ship a large number of guns to a Mexican cartel.

        Point is they have many sources, including many large sources from many countries.

  24. avatar Dude says:

    Why don’t they just make it illegal for the bad guys to have that stuff? Maybe have a government buyback? Bob O’Rourke could probably give them some pointers.

  25. avatar enuf says:

    In case people thought the movie was a big exaggeration, if anything it painted a light and easy, a kinder gentler version of the reality.

  26. avatar enuf says:

    It is not just Mexico suffering under this massive Narco Civil War, which let’s face facts that is what it is in Mexico. A Civil War between organized crime worth tens of billions of dollars a year and every level of government.

    The USA suffers from the drugs and many other organized criminal enterprises. So do other countries, the cartels have expanded markets outward, east and west across oceans.

    The heavy weapons and smaller arms come in from those overseas directions, as well as from the south. Sure, they get some guns from the USA, but Browning .50 cal machine guns? Rocket propelled grenades? Cases of hand grenades? That stuff is from everyplace else but here. The small arms they got from Bush’s “Wide Receiver” or Obama’s “Fast & Furious” were a drop in the bucket compared to their regular sources. Hell, they shot down a military helicopter and have built their own armored fighting vehicles! The Mexican military has collected a junkyard of armored vehicles that show increasing sophistication, including multi-layer armor.

    The weapons also come from within Mexico. Stolen from the police and military.

    It isn’t new either. Nearly 35 years ago a rescue squad I was with was asked by the US State Department to assist Mexican Federal police in recovering bodies from a shaft. They needed people skilled in mine rescue, wearing rebreathers, working vertically. I nearly went as top-side support on rope systems (newbie) but they trimmed the number of people way down. Turned out to be a quantity of disposed of captives. Couldn’t pay the ransoms so they were killed and tossed down an old, deep well. Men and women, from young to old.

    We do not need just a wall. We need an attitude adjustment. We need to comprehend that a failed state the size of Mexico on our southern border is dangerous to American national security. We need mass deployments of Federal troops to patrol the border and to conduct searches at ports of entry. As in both northbound and southbound. Catch the drugs, the guns, the cash being moved. Every car, truck, train, aircraft.

    What we need is to set a goal. I’d say either we reduce illegal border activity by at least 95% or we fail. The goal is to starve the cartels of cash. Do it for long enough and their power will fall. Their soldiers are not religious fanatics like Islamic terrorists, they are in it for the money.

    Trump’s non-wall he has not built a mile of yet will not do it.

    Sure, a barrier system is useful, even important. But it has to be understood that a barrier works as a force multiplier for the people guarding the barrier. It forces the people trying to cross to slow down, bunch up, take time to exert extra effort. Gives the guarding force an opportunity to detect and interdict.

    If your force along a wall is inadequate, the wall is a wasted effort.

    I’d say start at 100,000 troops. Plus concentrated air and naval patrols. All this cartel activity is not restricted to the borders with California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas!

    As for the Posse Comitatus Act, it does not apply in the event of invasion. Which is what we have long had going on. A low intensity civil war in a neighboring country where one combatant is operating within the USA to generate funds for that war, committing considerable crime and damage to American lives in so doing. It is a new form of warfare we are unaccustomed to and are far behind the curving in recognizing for what it is.

    By the way, none of this is about immigration for me. The great bulk of illegal aliens pay taxes, get little befit from doing so, and just want a better life. The political party that realizes this and acts to fix our screwed up mess of an immigration system would earn itself a bunch of new voters for their side.

    But the Republicans are as dumb as the Democrats on that one.

    1. avatar "keep yur paws off my dead guy" possum says:

      Maybe state taxes, no federal. And having worked for a mexican construction company, all laborers being “wet backs”, nobody paid taxes, all paychecks were cash. And brag brag brag about how they be fcken the U.S. government.

      1. avatar enuf says:

        I agree not all taxes, but quite a lot. It is unavoidable. Buy gas and you pay Federal tax. Buy tires, same deal. Also not all are entirely underground cash economy. A good many are paying into Social Security and Medicare and more under false paperwork. So those benefits of paying taxes? It’s a crap shoot if they will ever get them.

        1. avatar Dan W says:

          They are massive net consumers of taxes. They might be paying a few cents on the dollar.

          The break even point for income to be a net tax payer is north of 60k assuming full compliance.

          Kids, especially ones with poor English cost $10k-$20k a year for school.

    2. avatar Mister Fleas says:

      “The great bulk of illegal aliens pay taxes, get little befit from doing so, and just want a better life.”

      Illegals are grabbing every welfare dollar they can from the government.

  27. avatar "keep yur paws off my dead guy" possum says:

    , Thank goodness the Kanza only had flint

  28. avatar Dan W says:

    The Spaniards were able to impose a thin veneer of civilized behavior over the native culture for a short period of time. Their power is waning and the native culture is reasserting itself.
    Build a wall or wipe them out, those are the options.

    1. avatar enuf says:

      ^^^___MORON___^^^

      1. avatar Earl from Richmond says:

        Ok- let’s put illegal immigrants next to enuf’s house.

        First it’s the Santa Muerte (Google it) shrines popping up, then it’s your daughter getting gang raped.

        Source: I live in Richmond, CA. I know the parents of the girl that got gang raped. Call me racist, I don’t care anymore.

  29. avatar Prndll says:

    This is an interesting article that shows us all what we might be in for if the cartels/Mex gov decide to start an all out shooting war at the border. I mean actual war.

  30. avatar enuf says:

    Two Drug Slayings in Mexico Rock U.S. Consulate

    By MARC LACEY and GINGER THOMPSONMARCH 14, 2010
    Continue reading the main story
    Share This Page

    LA UNIÓN, Mexico — Gunmen believed to be linked to drug traffickers shot a pregnant American consulate worker and her husband to death in the violence-racked border town of Ciudad Juárez over the weekend, leaving their baby wailing in the back seat of their car, the authorities said Sunday. The gunmen also killed the husband of another consular employee and wounded his two young children.

    The shootings took place minutes apart and appeared to be the first deadly attacks on American officials and their families by Mexico’s powerful drug organizations, provoking an angry reaction from the White House. They came during a particularly bloody weekend when nearly 50 people were killed nationwide in drug-gang violence, including attacks in Acapulco as American college students began arriving for spring break.

    The killings followed threats against American diplomats along the Mexican border and complaints from consulate workers that drug-related violence was growing untenable, American officials said. Even before the shootings, the State Department had quietly made the decision to allow consulate workers to evacuate their families across the border to the United States.

    In Washington, President Obama denounced the “brutal murders” and vowed to “work tirelessly” with Mexican law enforcement officials to prosecute the killers. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said the killings underscored the need to work with the Mexican government “to cripple the influence of trafficking organizations at work in Mexico.”

    In a sign of the potential international reverberations of these killings, President Felipe Calderón of Mexico similarly expressed his indignation and condolences and said he would press forward with “all available resources” to control the lawlessness in Ciudad Juárez and the rest of the country.
    Continue reading the main story

    The F.B.I. was sending agents to Ciudad Juárez on Sunday to assist with the investigation and American diplomats were en route to meet with their Mexican counterparts, said Roberta S. Jacobson, the American deputy assistant secretary of state who handles Mexico.

    *** CAUTION ***
    Graphic photos of the murdered couple in their car.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/15/world/americas/15juarez.html

  31. avatar joefoam says:

    The poor oppressed ‘immigrants’ flooding into the US to ‘escape’ this kind of violence bring it with them. If this is how you lived there, you assume that robbery, theft, corruption, fraud, rape, murder and all manner of disgusting behavior is the norm. We are importing a new crop of felons every day. The left don’t want to admit to it (they wouldn’t even admit there was a crisis at the border) but it is a fact. Here in PHX we are known as the kidnap capital of the US. Building and patrolling the wall is imperative.

  32. avatar 2a with good jeans says:

    Keep Mexicans out of the USA! build the wall now
    America for whites and African Americans only!

  33. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    The 2A is about Arms not just guns. If an Antifa up armored “Technical” with gun turrets, enters your city what are you going to do? You say that can’t happen here! It already has. Check out the Rock island auction house for NAF items for sale. You just might be surprised at what you can buy if you have the $$$.

    Destroyed in Seconds – Bulldozer Rampage 3 minutes long

  34. avatar Redpillpeez says:

    The problem isn’t guns, it’s brown people. And because of the cowardice of the GOP, boomer generation Whites the younger generation of whites will have to fight this to save their futures.

  35. avatar Old IPSC Shooter says:

    They should ask the Brazilians for a team of advisors.

Write a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

button to share on facebook
button to tweet
button to share via email