Why the West Freeway Church of Christ Video is Gun Controllers’ Worst Nightmare

West Freeway Church Shooting Texas

In this still frame from livestreamed video provided by law enforcement, churchgoers take cover while a congregant armed with a handgun, top left, engages a man who opened fire, near top center just right of windows, during a service at West Freeway Church of Christ, Sunday, Dec. 29, 2019, in White Settlement, Texas. (West Freeway Church of Christ/Courtesy of Law Enforcement via AP)

If you’re not a football fan, you probably don’t know who Ray Rice is. Or was. Rice was a running back for the Baltimore Ravens. In 2014, the NFL suspended Rice for two games after he was arrested and indicted for assaulting his then-fiancee.

That bit of news barely merited a mention on ESPN SportsCenter.

But then the muckrakers at TMZ paid $91,000 to get their hands on a security video that showed the actual assault.

 

No, it’s not pretty. Letting the public see exactly what Rice did set off a chain reaction that rocked the league and caused the Ravens to release Rice. He never played another down in the NFL.

That video — seeing the savagery with which Rice decked his fiancee and then dragged her unconscious body out of that elevator — shocked people more than any dry description of the event ever could.

That’s why Rice never played again and why the league was criticized so intensely (they claimed — implausibly — that they never saw the video) for initially handing out a piddling two-game suspension.

And that brings us to Sunday’s shooting at the West Freeway Church of Christ. As you no doubt know by now, the attack that resulted in two church security guards dead along with the shooter was caught on video.

CAUTION: video may be disturbing to some.

That video confirmed something that regular readers here have always known: guns save lives — far more than they take. They’re used hundreds of thousands of times a year in defensive situations, preventing robberies, assaults, rapes and murders.

But our friends in the Civilian Disarmament Industrial Complex — both gun control advocacy operations and their compliant, complicit co-conspirators in the mainstream media — have claimed for years, all evidence and statistics to the contrary, that it’s just a sham. The whole “good guy with a gun” thing is nothing more than an NRA talking point used to instill fear and drum up more memberships.

As we pointed out yesterday, the West Freeway Church video won’t do a thing to change minds among the hard core hoplophobic disarmament community. They’re far too invested, philosophically and financially, in furthering the anti-gun narrative.

They’re a lost cause, a waste of time, effort and breath. Once they watched that video, the gun control lobby caught its breath for about 30 seconds and got back to work diligently arguing that what happened in the West Freeway Church doesn’t really mean anything at all.

In fact, in their view, the armed self defense of that congregation was proof positive of our sick gun culture and the need for even more limitations on the right to keep and bear arms.

What’s different now, though, what the West Freeway Church video provides in the most indelible way, is visual proof that defensive gun uses do happen. Know-nothing blowhards like Joe Biden may ridicule states that allow or encourage carrying a firearm in houses of worship, but the average American can see this for him- and herself. Proof of guns actually saving lives.

Just as the Ray Rice video shocked the people who saw it, the West Freeway Church video will be seen by hundreds of thousands of Americans who aren’t gun owners and it will have in impact with them as well. People who are in the middle, with neither a positive or negative view of guns. So-called “low-information” people who get most of their news from the mainstream media.

Some of those people — probably more than you think — will be swayed by seeing what happens when responsible, law-abiding citizens are armed. They have heard the constant drone about America’s violent society and the gun violence epidemic for years. But then they’ll mentally put themselves in one of those church pews.

Some of them will decide they want the right and the ability to defend themselves if, God forbid, a deranged drifter wacko in a fake beard decides to open fire in their church/school/neighborhood movie theater.

If any good will have come out of Sunday’s shooting, it will be that. It will be those persuadable, open-minded people in the middle who will see that video and, maybe for the first time, conclude that armed self defense isn’t just an abstract right written down by men in wigs 230 years ago.

Some of them will decide that keeping and bearing arms actually makes a lot of sense and that they want to ensure they’re able to do exactly that.

 

comments

  1. avatar Old Guy in Montana says:

    Well written, one of your best editorials yet.

    The anti-firearm toadies will respond in 3-2-1…

    1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

      Agreed on the article but now that you mention it I haven’t seen the typical commie orientated trolls as often the past few days. Maybe waiting for their new scripts?

      1. avatar RGP says:

        A lot of the hard core pinko trolls across the internet forums etc are probably being paid to do it to boost the perception that their opinion is a lot more popular than it actually is. It’s vacation time until after the 1st!

        1. avatar Geoff “I ate my Weiner” PR says:

          Of course, it’s AstroTurf 101. Give false impression of a bigger grassroots interest and opinion than really exists by paying people to post your agenda across the Internet forums and social media. It’s a huge business. The pharmaceutical industry has been doing this for years. You’d have to mentally seriously mentally challenged to think the anti-gun forces would not do this.

        2. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

          “Of course, it’s AstroTurf 101.”

          You’re gonna have to to better than that, son, if you wanna impersonate me, OK?

          And here’s a clue for you – If I actually could fellate myself, I’d be a multi-millionaire in the porn biz.

          (And since you went through so much work to impersonate me, I’m flattered. Fvckwit ‘peegee2’ can expect to get a whole lot angrier, since you’re too fvcking stupid to know when to quit. Keep it up boy. You are only a fun punch-toy.. 😉 )

      2. avatar Erik in AZ says:

        Maybe Vlad’s mom cut off his internet access and told him it was time to get a job and move out of her basement? We can only hope he learns to be a productive member of society. And that he stops posting his drivel…

        1. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

          Ha! We should be so lucky. She probably just made him clean his room.

        2. avatar Vlad's older brother. says:

          He got caught with stuff on his computer that shouldn’t have been there. AGAIN! He’ll be disappearing for a while until someone assumes his identity. Just like last time. Guy never learns.

        3. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

          Re Vlads older brother: In the unlikely event that is true and happened last Friday I may know who that is and sucks to be that dirtbag up my way regardless.

    2. avatar PlinkrBlaster says:

      Agreed.

  2. avatar Dennis says:

    DOES NOT FIT THE NARRATIVE!!!!🤯🤯🤯

    1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      This,blows their agenda all to Sell.

      1. avatar frank speak says:

        ….just got a call from one of my hard-core Christian relatives…[we all seem to have them]…and she was totally supportive of how this was handled…looks like the word is spreading…

  3. avatar Stateisevil says:

    Not at all. No one is coming after concealed carry (yet). It’s about scary black rifles, curved magazines, red flags, etc. They’ll ignore this, and to the extent it’s mentioned all they’ll say is a retired leo ended it while a mundane was slain.

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      On the federal level they’re not ‘coming’ for conceal carry because it’s legislated so much at a state level. If hell were to freeze over and the GOP had passed the national reciprocity act back when they held 3 houses you could have bet anything that ‘crazy wild west rednecks carrying guns in my city!’ would have been the issue instead of black rifles.

  4. 4,848,224

    Gun defenses since January 1, 2018.
    Date and Time Now: 12/31/2019, 11:28:32 AM
    http://www.pulpless.com/gunclock/gunclock_index2.html

    1. avatar Old Guy in Montana says:

      Apologies. This response was supposed to be to Safeupstate poster.

      The spin is already in progress. Several of the MSM propagandists pushing narratives regarding the defender’s past employment as THE significant factor in the successful stopping of the shooter.

      Horsepucky!

      I’ve shot alongside FBI Agents and they are like any other persons bearing arms…some are exceptional, some are truly lousy shooters and the majority…mediocre.

      I shoot weekly with a number of retired LEO’s and non-LEO’s…several of the non-LEO’s are superb shooters in their speed, accuracy and tactical awareness.

      Has anyone seen if there is a go fund me page set up for the families of the two slain defenders?

      1. avatar Rokurota says:

        It wouldn’t matter even if he was a lifelong desk jockey. A few years ago, there was a spate of axe attacks in Israel. One of the terrorists was taken out by an armed citizen, but the news insisted on calling him a “security guard,” even though the attempted murder took place at a bus stop.

        A common media tactic is to juxtapose unrelated facts to make them appear related. So even if he had no LEO background, they could have just as easily written: “The gunman was shot by Jack Wilson. The church has a professionally trained security force.” to make it appear he was a pro.

      2. Old Guy in Montana –

        “The spin is already in progress. Several of the MSM propagandists pushing narratives regarding the defender’s past employment as THE significant factor in the successful stopping of the shooter.”

        Yeah, they never miss an opportunity to dance in the blood of shooting victims.

        “Horsepucky!”

        No doubt, among other things.

        “I’ve shot alongside FBI Agents and they are like any other persons bearing arms…some are exceptional, some are truly lousy shooters and the majority…mediocre.”

        Aye, have noticed the same with various governmental agencies, and even military.

        “I shoot weekly with a number of retired LEO’s and non-LEO’s…several of the non-LEO’s are superb shooters in their speed, accuracy and tactical awareness.”

        In my experience, prison guards seem to be far better marksmen than many in L.E. Used to go out in the desert with a group that called themselves the Drunken Machine-Gunners Club. And I definitely wouldn’t want to be in a firefight against any of them.

        “Has anyone seen if there is a go fund me page set up for the families of the two slain defenders?”

        From my initial search I was unable to find a link to help with the funds. Am thinking they probably already have it covered, as Texans take care of their own.

      3. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

        Yeah been seeing a bit of that elsewhere and curious what his actual background may have been. With that said it was a damn steady shot for that distance and one that doesn’t come from just being law enforcement/mil/whatever. I would be amazed if he doesn’t have a lot of time put in at the range at even further distances.

      4. avatar Kendahl says:

        The gun club I belonged to before moving had an annual event limited to serving LEOs. Some were very good shots. Some ran out of ammunition before completing the course even though there was no limit on how much they could carry.

        Jeff Cooper commented that his best students were private citizens whose goal was to win trophies. Next came private citizens who had been victims once and were determined not to let it happen again. The worst were guys who carried guns for a living and were sent to Cooper’s school by their employers all expenses paid.

      5. avatar frank speak says:

        LE experience does tend to eliminate the “paralysis of analysis”….that training does lead to a conditioned response…it’s obvious he didn’t hesitate…although I still believe most folks would have responded pretty much the same way……

  5. avatar Joseph Quixote says:

    Most Americans haven’t forgotten where they came from. Despite the “education” given in the public schools and colleges since the 1950s (typified by guys like vlad) most people retain common sense. The video speaks for itself. Normal every day people can use a gun successfully to defend themselves. You don’t need to be tactifool to do so.

    1. avatar Spud says:

      Great post! A picture IS worth a thousand words!

      Absent from all reporting that I have seen to date is wether the shooter was armed with additional shotgun shells or not. In most previous cases, the media is quick to point out how much additional ammo the various shooters had on their person or closely available to wreak additional havoc.

      May God bless the West Freeway Church defenders!

  6. avatar Dan says:

    They will just lie and make up false narratives to serve their needs. They’re already doing it.

  7. avatar jeff says:

    Great editorial. It reasons that those in the middle might be persuaded to see that guns save lives. That is a very astute point. Now wait for it….the anti’s attacking in any way they can to discredit the narrative.

  8. avatar Nate in CA says:

    Very well said – thank you for this.

    I’m doing what I can to share the news about this event as a way to get ‘fence-sitters’ to understand how the media downplays what it doesn’t agree with.

  9. avatar Steve Eisenberg says:

    That was a hell of a good shot.

    1. avatar bryan1980 says:

      Yeah it was….he dropped that guy like a sack of potatoes. The way that guy fell, you knew right off the bat it was a head shot.

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Yes it was. And that looked like a teensy gun to me, too, making it all the more difficult. I suspect the first guy shot was supposed to be the one to take the guy down, if necessary, since he was right there. The guy who did take him down was a good deal farther away, although I’m not sure I believe the 50 feet news is reporting. I wonder how long this video will stay up before disappearing like the previous ones.

      1. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

        ” I wonder how long this video will stay up before disappearing like the previous ones.”

        LiveLeak leaves them up. Even if it disappears, I e-mailed Dan Z. a copy of the video, and if necessary, TTAG can host it…

      2. avatar TommyJay says:

        Its been reported that it was a Sig P229 in .357 Sig. The only .357 version (now anyway) is the P229 Nitron Compact. It is a DA/SA hammer fired pistol with a 3.9″ barrel. Not too tiny. I guessed it was a 20 yd. shot before it was reported to be 50 ft. Sounds about right to me.

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          If that was a Sig 229, the video sure fooled me. I have a 229, and it appeared a lot smaller, but the camera was so far away. Makes sense, though, that distance would be easier with a full-size like the 229.

  10. avatar BLAMMO!! says:

    I always liked the narrative that if you have a gun, it’s more likely to be taken away and used against you than you are to use it to defend yourself. Of course, it’s based on the rarest of anecdotes.

    If that were true, we could take all the guns away from the cops and give them to the criminals. Then, if the criminals go to use the guns, we would just take them away and use them on them.

    The one with the gun wins. Virtually without exception. First rule of a gunfight: Have a gun.

  11. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

    By leftist logic Mutual Assured Destruction didn’t work because only one war was ever ended with the use of nuclear weapons. Defensive gun uses rarely require the firing of a shot.

  12. avatar rt66paul says:

    I worked as a maintenance mechanic for years. I carry a smaller pocket knife, while others carried a Buck or a sheath knife(they just got in the way when I had to crawl inside a vessel or a tight place). It trims fingernails, cuts cord and opens boxes. Many people question my carrying a tool that is sharp – it is far from an offensive knife, but they seem to be concerned anyway.

    My point here is that in free states, I am sure that many people carry all the time, something like an LCP, and since it is not used for other purposes, the people around him/her have no idea that someone right next to them is armed. This is as it should be. People should be aware that there are many out there that are armed, these people that are armed all of the time do not advertise this fact. It is a normal part of life, most of these concealed carriers will never draw their firearms for defense in their life.

    Being prepared does not mean you are a loose cannon and it just makes it safer for society. I am proud to be part of the 99.9% of gun owners that have weapons for defense and do not ever want to have to use them.

    1. avatar RGP says:

      The last person (here in Texas) who complained about my knife was actually a convicted felon who had been to prison for drug offenses.

      1. avatar VicRattlehead says:

        Most people I know aren’t complaining about my knife, they’re asking to borrow it to open a box or package or something. 😂

        1. avatar RGP says:

          Don’t let them touch it. If they don’t own their own they’ll destroy yours and they could destroy a solid block of steel if you let them borrow that too.

  13. avatar Darkman says:

    8 inch circle at 15 yards. Should be well within the ability of any shooter who practices on a regular basis. The most important factor is the mental willingness to kill without question of forethought. That is where the opportunity for failure will arise. It takes more than being a good shot. It takes the instinct to kill. When killing is what needs to be done. The sad part in this situation is the fact that this scum bag was on the radar. They knew something was amiss. He was wearing a bad disguise and was acting hinky. The Patriot who shot him was checking to be sure a camera was on him just before he pulled his weapon. Always go with your gut and the little voice in your head. If it feels wrong it most likely is. Keep Your Powder Dry.

    1. avatar HNY2020 says:

      I think after seeing two others shot at that range (and most likely fatally) and the extreme probability that others would suffer the same fate, it makes that decision to kill someone that needs to be stopped almost automatic. That he was on the radar and nobody made a move before the first shot is an example of what being “P.C.” gets you. Nobody wants to offend this guy, especially in a church.

      1. avatar Darkman says:

        You would think. Except there is a big difference between the saying and the doing. People with extensive training lock up all the time. Especially if they’ve never killed anything before. Kind of like buck fever. That is why being mentally prepared is so important. Making peace with yourself or your God. Like the gentleman who splashed the perp. He didn’t consider the scum bag to be a person. He was just killing Evil. Which for most people is hard to comprehend. Killing goes against most people’s nature. Especially another person. I’m sure that is compounded by some people’s religious beliefs. Never assume the other guy will do the dirty work. Assumption and Hesitation got 2 people killed that day. When the Red flags were flying and the perp was on the Radar. Everyone Assumed the situation was under control. Keep Your Powder Dry.

  14. avatar Colorado Bob says:

    It’s interesting to note the shooter was armed with a shotgun – which is the last of the firearms the left wants taken away. The Good Guy appears to be armed with a semi-auto pistol – one of the first the gun control lobby would like to ban.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      You are correct, that is a most interesting observation!

  15. avatar Richard B Jones says:

    I find it interesting that no one has mentioned that besides the first “armed volunteer” who was shot while attempting to get his gun on target, and the armed volunteer who shot the bad guy, I noticed as the video played there appeared to be at least 4-5 others who had handguns drawn approaching the downed attacker. With this kind of response, the attacker had little chance of continuing, no matter what weapons he was using. One or more of those half dozen armed parishioners would have been successful in short order.

    1. Watch the video here:

      https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/the-heroes-of-yesterdays-church-shooting-were-the-first-responders-in-the-pews/

      It counts seven people with firearms. And those were just the ones within the camera’s field of view.

      1. avatar frank speak says:

        that’s worth pointing out as others attempt to put a spin on it….

    2. avatar Higgs says:

      I have watched this video a few times and I agree. it was not one person stopping this evil man. It was many people. How many of the other people were Ex leo’s. My guess is not all of them.

      after the evil man was down the good guys kept closing in from multiple directions. It looked to me that they all kept good site lines on the bad guy until they removed his weapon.

      Condolences to those who gave their lives in protection of others, sympathy and peace for those who survived.

  16. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    Committed Progressives and gun-grabbers (but I repeat myself) will poo-poo this event. They will claim that it was a fluke and armed defenders will maim/kill countless bystanders in most/all other events. Or they will claim that the masses do not want a nation with gun battles.

    When a Progressive stakes that position, here is my simple response:

    Evil always has and always will exist among us. Evil always has and always will attack us. If you oppose our right to possess and use effective self-defense tools, you are an accomplice to those evil people among us who wish to rob, beat, rape, and murder us.

    1. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

      I suggest asking them for even a single incident where this confused friendly fire has actually happened with “ordinary” citizens, rather than with police.

  17. avatar James W Crawford says:

    It is tremendously helpful that the perp was armed with a politically correct shotgun. Even if it was a Mossberg Shockwave, everyone understands that only a hacksaw is needed to transform an Elmer Fudd gun into a more concealable sawed off shotgun.

  18. avatar Ark says:

    Nah, they latched onto the whole “ex FBI agent” and “church security guard” thing. He wasn’t one of the unwashed, therefore it’s not a legitimate armed citizen stopping a mass shooter, it was one of the chosen people.

    And there’s always the old “if we banned all the guns the shooter wouldn’t have one either” fiction.

    1. avatar Aven says:

      The ex-FBI agent is a media fabrication as it is not true and is a liberal falsehood,

  19. avatar anaxis says:

    I frequent some discussion forums (not the reddit or chans) that have a fairly international flavor, along with people on both political spectrum’s, and we all share a hobby of laughing at the same insanity.

    Already, this video has swayed more than a few. The largest point I’ve heard is that the presence of so many other firearms didn’t result in a confused bloodbath of friendly fire… along with the fact that an aging civilian took down the murderer with one shot, while it took 30 cops plus a dead UPS driver & bystander, to stop 2 stationary armed robber’s.

    1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

      You would be amazed how many leo/military never fire their weapon outside of qualification.

    2. avatar TommyJay says:

      “… the presence of so many other firearms didn’t result in a confused bloodbath of friendly fire.” Another left-wing shibboleth bites the dust.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Nah. If you pointed that out to them, they’d simply claim it was luck, without offering a single instance where someone was *un*lucky.

  20. avatar Eng says:

    The media really doesn’t want to acknowledge that the “security guards” were just an armed civil defense force, a.k.a. a militia.

  21. avatar Ed Rogers says:

    My perception is that media outlets are touting Mr. Wilson as a “professional”, which he is. I notice CNN has relegated the story to the back pages…because Mr. Wilson is truly a great example for gun owners and aspiring gun owners. Although we’re not required to go through training, Mr. Wilson exemplified what training may help you accomplish.

    I still see many Americans as too intellectually lazy to think through how vulnerable they are to evil.

  22. avatar Chief Censor says:

    Convincing women who have children is much easier than you think. It’s all about the approach. Sure, some won’t want a gun after you get through to them, but they will change their minds on banning them. They won’t change their minds if you yell at them and call them names for infringing on your right to own a gun.

    You need to get the women to see reality. Then to want to defend themselves and their babies from violent men.

    1. avatar Void says:

      What a curiously specific and off topic comment.

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        Apparently you didn’t see the video in this post of a woman getting beaten by a man? Apparently you don’t know that women dictate today’s culture. Apparently you didn’t know there is a group of women out there that get politicians to pass gun control.

        Women raise the children. They teach the children. They create the children as much as they create the current culture. Over 70% of men leave their wife, thereby their children.

        Men always think they are the most important. You are not as important as the women and children. Focus should be more on them than you. Hence why the socialists do everything to get women and their children to vote for them.

        White men wearing military gear and carrying a long gun completely ignores the women and children side of things. Egotistical to the extreme. Any man that dresses up like that when they go to Virginia does not understand they are doing harm to the minds of most women and their children.

        1. avatar Void says:

          Posted here on this article?

        2. avatar Mike H in WA says:

          “70% of men leave their wife…”

          Do you have something to back that up? You’re original post makes sense… but you undercut your argument when you throw out BS stats like that.

    2. avatar Ing says:

      Mothers are all about protecting their children. That’s exactly what the anti-gun progs are trying to do, too (in the most backwards and evil way possible, but still…).

      Realizing that a carried gun is the best possible instrument of defense is what brought my wife around and also what led her to buy her own gun — even though she’s still somewhat afraid of guns. She’s a very kind-hearted person who normally wouldn’t hurt a fly, but Mama Bear is in there, too.

      And that’s also why I carry (and why I have rifles always ready to rock at home). Whatever weirdness or danger might happen (so far none has, knock on wood), my job is twofold: 1, to protect the wife and kids; 2, to protect myself so I can keep doing job #1.

  23. avatar Fred says:

    Nice drop! Wonder what caliber the good guy was using? Hope we find out….Hmmm

    1. He used a SIG P229 in .357 SIG.

  24. avatar Thomas William says:

    Contrary to popular opinion the average armed civilian is an excellent shot. FBI statistics demonstrate that the “problem shooting rate” of armed civilians is less than one half that of off duty police. Those rates are roughly 5 per 1,000 v 12 per 1,000, respectively, if memory serves me.

  25. avatar NotAFudd says:

    I’m part of my church security team. Several of is have already been breaking down and discussing the video. We’re planning to review with the whole team in the near future. Everyone should learn from this and update their plans accordingly.

    1. avatar anonymous4goodreason says:

      Yes and, please, practice drawing your gun! I couldn’t help but notice that the 2nd guy died because he couldn’t get his gun out fast enough. So sad, he had the means to defend himself but couldn’t get to it quickly.

      1. avatar NotAFudd says:

        That’s something I want to explore. They were already suspicious, could he have had his weapon more at the ready? I’m somewhat of the opinion that being that far behind the curve, he would have been better off rushing the guy and going for the shotgun. I really want to see the results of investigation. Should they have tried to confront the guy in the lobby? Lots of questions.

      2. avatar LarryinTX says:

        That was the first guy shot, the second was not armed. The first guy should have had his hand on his gun before the bad guy started his draw, although I would have hated to hear the media if the bad guy was the *only* one killed. And please don’t think I’m criticizing the guy, I’m sorry it didn’t work out, but I’ve been in hinky situations before and I had a hand on my gun, which nobody noticed, caused no problem, and my read was wrong so no one got shot.

  26. avatar Red says:

    No government has the right to dictate whether you can take a gun onto private property (a church, in this case). It is simply absurd. It is for the church to decide such issues, not politicians who believe they should tell us how to live every minutiae of our lives. Pass all the laws you want. I’m going to church armed and my church is okay with that. Politicians, butt out!

  27. avatar CFRED says:

    Peter Daou, political hack/blogger. The opportunity should be seized to make him the poster child for the extremely stupid. When someone makes an idiotic statement like that, they need to present examples of those that have stated they want gun battles in places of worship. The shooter in this video didn’t even want a gun battle, he wanted to kill several and get out, then maybe kill himself.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      I came to comment very similar, the depths of this doofus’ stupidity is incredible. He would prefer to be in a house of worship where all 250 people were executed by shotgun blast? No, what he is addressing is that if we had different laws, a stone cold killer would not have dared carry a shotgun into a church. You cannot make this shit up, it does not seem possible to be that stupid.

  28. avatar Resident moron Vlad Tepes says:

    totally off-topic as i normally do, but here we go:

    Far right loonies and Neo-Nazi’s are at fault here. Christianity, Conservatism, and White men are to blame. Perhaps if all those far-right Neo-Nazis hadnt shot at that poor, oppressed disenfranchised young man who apparently just wanted to go to church and be accepted among all those other far-right Neo-Nazis then perhaps nobody would have been shot.

    Oh yea, did i mention far-right Neo-Nazi’s are to blame here?

    1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

      Wait the fake troll of a leftist troll is more coherent mocking the leftist troll than the leftist troll is with typical posting. I either need to drink more or less tonight.

  29. avatar mr. jan Zboril says:

    any one know what gun/caliber the defender was using

    1. avatar Ross says:

      SIG P229 in .357 SIG

  30. avatar Mike H in WA says:

    “…does anyone want an America where there are gun battles in places of worship?”

    He must not know too many practicing Jews… I’m fairly certain if he did, they would tell him that that America has existed for them for years already.

    I mean, how many Synagogues have been shot up already in the last five years?

  31. avatar fishshooter says:

    must comment on the marksmanship of good guy stopping threat at 15-20 ft with a head shot on a moving target. I need to practice more.

  32. avatar charles says:

    if guns save more lives than they take, why do we see here two dead victims and one dead assailant?

    1. avatar Ing says:

      Short answer: Because this is just one single incident, not the whole ball of wax.

      Longer answer to follow.

    2. avatar Ing says:

      So… If guns save more (innocent) lives than they take, why do we see two dead victims here vs. one assailant?

      The answer is that each incident is its own unique situation. In some incidents, the defender fails entirely; in other incidents (like this one), the criminal aggressor may rack up multiple victims before an armed defender succeeds; in many more incidents, the armed defender wins.

      The aggregate result of all these unique situations is that in total, guns save *far* more innocent lives than they take. Defensive uses don’t have to be 100% successful for that to be true, nor do they have to be identical.

      https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-the-fallacy-of-division-250352

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