The West Freeway Church of Christ videos and streams its services. The camera caught the moment when a hooded man stood up, pulled a shotgun and opened fire this morning.
Watch the man in black stand up at the top of the frame.
CAUTION: Some might find this video disturbing:
Don’t look now, but this is a textbook version of a good guy with a gun taking down a bad guy with a shotgun. Even though we’ve been told by all the smartest people that the whole good guy thing is a myth.
Two people have reportedly been killed, in addition to the shooter. But had the church not had armed individuals in the congregation ready to respond, this could have been a far worse situation than it already was.
For that reason — because an armed individual used a firearm to stop a threat — look for this story to get far less intense or ongoing media attention than it otherwise would have.
looks to me like the shooter caught one in the face or head from the way his hood moved.
Good shooting from the defenders.
Sadly the first defender shot had an unpracticed draw that was about 3 seconds too slow. The attacker took forever to respond, (I suspect the shotgun safety was on!) but still pulled the trigger first.
YEP. Fatboy got it caught in his overhang.
Practice, practice, PRACTICE!!!!
You NEVER know when you will need it.
The sad thing is that the guy with the shotgun just stood there and watched him fumble around until he actually got the gun out. Then the BG fired.
If the BG had been more aggressive initially this might have gone a different way with the guy who actually dropped the BG not having the time to do so.
Show some class. Calling the guard names is despicable.
The man died trying to do the right thing as a volunteer.
The only one being called insulting names here is the room-temperature attacker.
He’s calling the one who was trying to draw “fatboy”, you don’t think that’s an insulting name?
The man was attending church, he was surprised, and he still stood up and drew the badguy’s attention. I agree that the overt, and slow. draw was unfortunately a fatal mistake. Some courtesy and respect should be tendered in honor of a man who stood up and defended his church family BEFORE the uniformed and armed security got into the act.
I don’t agree that “fast draw” is the answer for everyone. I am old(er) and slower. I would not be able to outdraw most people and sure couldn’t draw faster than some bad guy with a shotgun already in his hand could move the shotgun a few inches and pull a trigger.
What I can do is be subtle. I can either kneel “in fear” (I won’t have to act) and pull the LCP from my ankle holster, or shoot one hand fearfully in the air as I back away turning to cover my other hand drawing (probably much slower than I would prefer) my S&W 9mm from an IWB holster. Either way the shooter is less likely to perceive me as an immediate threat, I am keeping his attention, and I have relocated as a potential target.
While I do practice this, I don’t pretend that my slower reaction is always more effective, that it will prevent some evil deviant from shooting before I can react, or that in the stress of the moment I’ll even get it right. What I do know is the guy who stood up and reached for his weapon, right in front of the badguy, was a brave man. He has earned a bit more respect than “Fatboy.”
The civilian that stopped the gunman is a former police officer.
“””””””””””””””””””””””””Tex Patriot says:
December 29, 2019 at 18:08
Show some class. Calling the guard names is despicable.
The man died trying to do the right thing as a volunteer.”””””””””””””””””””””””
Since when did some of these guys on this forum ever have respect for anyone but themselves. Thixotropic will tell you that he is a legend in his own mind.
Vlad Tepes says:
December 29, 2019 at 20:44
“””””””””””””””””””””””””Tex Patriot says:
December 29, 2019 at 18:08
Show some class. Calling the guard names is despicable.
The man died trying to do the right thing as a volunteer.”””””””””””””””””””””””
Since when did some of these guys on this forum ever have respect for anyone but themselves. Thixotropic will tell you that he is a legend in his own mind.
Looking at the video and some online analysis of, I think we will find out that the man he called a name was a 50+ year old volunteer usher rather than a trained security person on high alert for danger.
Indeed, he was sitting down when the whole thing started. He had about 5 seconds to go from relaxed/listening to his pastor to engaging a man who had a short barreled shotgun
I hope your the first victim of the next shooting. “Fat Boy” is a hero, your garbage.
@Georgiabob. I have advised the people who protect my church to spread out so that a shooter will have to turn his back on at least one defender. If you sign up to be a defender than you accept the risk that it could be your bad day so others might live.
You are literally retarded.
I didn’t realize we had so many SJW’s here. Fatboy? That’s a descriptive term, after all. No one would object if you called a tall person “Treetop” or such, because it’s descriptive.
So, fatboy was brave enough to stand up and be counted. Cudos. None of us have forgotten that he did the right thing. He’s still fatboy, and his pall bearers are going to wish that he didn’t weigh so much.
Some of those who are objecting to your use of the term should just get over it. I don’t buy into that whole “show some respect for the dead” nonsense. A mass murderer is still a mass murderer after he dies, right? A good man is still a good man after he dies. This brave individual will be remembered for his bravery – and for being fat.
Interview his family, and see if it ain’t so.
Dude, that was someones grandfather. You can hear the kid crying in the end of the video. Uncool.
What this Fat Boy comment, knucklehead. He drew his pistol from his rear quarter and it was his shirt that got in the way. His “overhang” had nothing to do with it. He was in church and got caught unawares and was not not well-practiced.
What a weaselly little punk you are.
You would have been screaming like that woman
Can’t believe you’re going to name call someone who just got shot!! This isn’t a video game and what if that was you dad or grandfather someone was bashing after literally watching a video of them being murdered!!! That type of desensitizing is what is wrong with this Country, life is precious even yours
calling this man “fatboy” is really uncalled for… yes he was too slow in the draw – many people don’t practice fast draw. But you’re a real jerk for calling him names. He took the shot, asshat. I’d like to see you in a situation like this. Go back to mom’s basement.
This person and Strych9 should be investigated and followed up with Homeland security or FBI. I’m sure there’s a way their IP addresses can be found out. They are definitely supporters of the gunman
Thixotropic and Strych9 should be investigated and followed up by Homeland security or the FBI. I’m sure there’s a way their IP addresses can be found out. They are definitely supporters of the gunman
For the guy with the name calling. No one could get their weapon out in time to shoot someone who already has his weapon pointed at you. The Gentleman in my opinion knew this in a flash second but sacrificed himself to keep other from harm. It is a sad day in America when people are filled with so much hatred that can casually take the life of innocent people especially in Gods House. I truly believe the return of Jesus Christ is so near. Be ready. Like in this situation, in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye Christ will appear and there will be no place to run or hide! Just hearing the young Lady screaming what I thought to be Daddy just breaks my Heart. God bless and comfort those involved or affected in any way.
Fatboy? You ARE a jerk, aren’t you!
You are why gun laws were made!
If you’re the first one targeted it would take a lot of practice and even more luck to make it out alive. Fortunately there was more than one good guy with a gun. The more the merrier (even if they are a bit slow on the draw).
Amen. it’s getting to where You are gonna have to start carrying a gun to Protect Your Family and Yourself thanks too democrats. I carry and proud of it, I don’t go around flashing it, keep it hid but it is there If I need it
My only comment is that I lOVE your screen name! Do you still have the jacket that says ‘GOV’ on the back? And, are you still getting those warped paddles? 🙂 Why do you always get a warped one?
Little red devils, they love toys. May I try one?
Too many carry without ever expecting to have to use their gun… and/or in ways that predicate having a WHOLE lot of time to prepare.
In this case, very sad. 🙁
I am not big on preaching sub-second draws above all else… but the faster the better, for sure.
I wonder how many people who pocket carry actual practice drawing with live ammo.
Every range session includes 5 magazines of draw and double tap at 7, 10, 15 yards and offset left and right at 10 yards.
Can’t reply to tdvina below so here it is. I’m a bit upset that most ranges don’t make some kind of arrangement so that people CAN practice an actual draw situation. Maybe it’s insurance or something. But what good does it do to practice aiming from a preset stance and not practice an actual draw and fire?
Sure you can find outdoor ranges where maybe to can do that but then maybe not. Depends on the authority in charge of the range.
The best you can do is train in two parts; draw practice and dry fire. Then practice firing at the range in the position you will wind up in. Not a good training scheme.
The two closest ranges within decent driving distance from me (SoCal location) both prohibit holsters. One of them, however, will grant you the privilege of holster-draw practice on a specific part of the property for an annual fee of $200. This is why many of us in these here parts go out to the desert where we can train more effectively.
December 29, 2019 at 18:37
I wonder how many people who pocket carry actual practice drawing with live ammo.
“”””””””””””””””Every range session includes 5 magazines of draw and double tap at 7, 10, 15 yards and offset left and right at 10 yards.++++++++++++++
There have been more than a few cases where double tap has gotten guys killed when there was more than one assailant. In this case there was only 1 assailant.
Wolftracker, aka Vlad: during my 30 year career in the intelligence community I was authorized to carry a firearm when necessary y the US. Government so i don’t give a rat’s what talking points you picked up so STFU.
@Jake. I am fortunate enough to have an outdoor range where I can practice these sorts of things. Except for winter I can also do shoot an move drills.
There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.
Thank God for the pro 2nd Amendment laws! Conceal carry is legal where I live. Locked and loaded, all the time. Don’t hesitate when someone is obviously a threat. Have your weapon ready and make sure it’s easily drawn/accessed! This punk would have had @ least three rounds in him if he pulled that move on me! God bless the one’s that were brave enough to stand in harm’s way! God bless their families. Amen.
I HOPE ALL CHURCH /CONGREGATION. ARE LOOKING AT THIS VIDEO. SOMEONE STOOD UP AND HE HAD HE’S GUN READY!
you are a true low life, the man just gave his life, and you have the bolls to criticize him?
Where’s the blood there’s not a frickin drop I call bs fake phoney staged event made for tv
Have you seen many gunshot wounds up close and personal, Charles, or just the fake movie variety? I’ve seen a few. They don’t always spray blood everywhere or bleed all over the place. Especially with no exit wounds.
Fake??? I am sure the family members planning the funerals are wishing it was all stages.
I suggest you go play your zombie games and leave everyone else. Alone.
You must be related to Tray. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID!!!
Maybe it’s better to have armed guards not in uniform for the obvious reason. The bad guy knows who to kill first. Which appears to be the case here.
Thanks for that. I subbed it into the post above.
LiveLeak still has it, for now :
I have a 7mb copy on my machine here if you need it mailed to you…
Thanks. LiveLeak will leave it up.
Would like the 7 mb copy should you be willing to send it.
i would love the 7 mb video
another upload: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yrx7bukuphtfwuw/m8sly.mp4?dl=0
Suggest downloading it before they ToS it again
Thx I got it
Already gone and unavailable from your link, but I grabbed it from LiveLeak for me to bring it to use it as a study tool for our own church’s security team, of which I’m a co-leader. Note how the congregation mostly hits the floor instead of panicking for the doors, and how the armed guard had the perp in his sights well before the shotgun was presented, enabling him to act quickly. The man who died from the first shotgun blast seemed to be too fat and unfamiliar with drawing his weapon to act effectively in defending his own life. Hard to imagine carrying a gun for your own self defense (as many of us do, probably for much of our lives), only to be gunned down in that final moment because of fumbling for the weapon. Very sobering reminder of the need to train.
How does one download from liveleak?
How to download from any webpage using Mozilla Firefox (I’m using a Windows PC with Mozilla):
Call up the URL, go to whatever video you want to view, and click on it to start playing.
Right-click anywhere on the screen that’s part of the background (not an advertisement or content) and select ‘View Page Info’.
When the new window pops up, it will default on ‘General’ info. Select ‘Media’ and scroll down until you see the content link that identifies it as ‘Video’ on the right side of the window. Right-click ‘copy’ and paste it into a new tab.
When it starts to play in the center of the page, right-click the lower-right hand corner of the video player and select ‘Save As’.
Viola! How to grab any MP4 video from any source with Firefox.
There’s a second way to grab vids through any browser using the ‘Inspect Element’ method, but it’s a little more intensive. If you get what you want using my first method above, then you’re good to go.
Firefox has an app to do that, search for and install “Video DownloadHelper.
A little icon showing three spheres is on your toolbar, just click it on a page that has video playing…
Dan, one person died and one is in critical. The shooter does not count.
Steamtable has removed the video too.
Grab it while you can, as the vid seems to be getting pulled down from other mirror sites.
so brave of men trying to stop him. a great shot from man who took him down. i was amazed at how many armed men stood up afterwards with pistols in hand, wow i live in eastern canada and we see nothing like this, and we cant carry. im some glad you guys can.may the familys affected be prayed for
That was a good shoot. To bad the first guy pulling his pistol did not shoot first.
All these keyboard ninjas criticizing…typical, y’all wouldn’t know what you’d do in the heat of the moment, no matter how much you train, yes it would be best to develop muscle memory through consistent draws but when the rubber meets the road will you act…I have three combat deployments under my belt and all I hear is dudes criticizing that haven’t seen the light a day, give me a break…praying for those effected, God bless
Andrew Alexander, you are so correct. My father was a 20year law enforcement officer and detective. He trained weekly and was a sharp shooter. He & his partner were confronted with a sawed off shotgun in a robbery back in the 70s before the department let them carry semiautomatic weapons but he did any way. His riot gun jammed so he shot the guy with the semiautomatic. Big ta do over and suspension but he lived through it.
I, like you Vicki, am the daughter and granddaughter of Illinois State Policemen and had 2 brothers-in-law in the department. All of them trained sharpshooters. They go through tons of training situations but even then when faced with a situation such as this, it’s not easy to predict the outcome. An ordinary citizen have his life to save others. He is a hero and that’s the only name he deserves. I conceal carry my 9mm because it’s necessary in today’s world…this just proves it. You’re not safe in restaurants, Wal-Mart, gyms, and now church. Its a sad world we live in. I am against any legislation that wants to take away our right to bear arms. We need to protect our own because the police cannot be everywhere. ❤🙏😥
Andre, I’m a retired law enforcement officer with 26 years experience. I was involved in 4 shootings over my career. All were COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES. So you are right on two counts, first being these assholes who are talking like they’re modern day gunslingers with their training this and their training that would piss themselves in actual face to face combat. Secondly, no two shooting scenarios are the same. And for you wannabe cowboy morons out there, first of all I hope I NEVER have to depend on you to have my six in a shooting incident because it’s a 99.9 percent certainty that you’d freeze up on the trigger because the guys that talk all the shit are ALWAYS the guys that can’t DO THE SHIT.
Well stated. I can only hope that if confronted in a similar situation that my Brothers around me will truly have my six.
Kudos!! Thank you!!
Hutch, thank you for your service to this country. I have 8 yrs active Army in me. I have never had to serve in combat, and I thank the Good Lord for that. I pray that no one would have to go to combat, whether in our city streets or abroad, but that is not reality. My service included nearly two years with the 1St SFG in Ft. Lewis. Even with all my training, unless I was in a situation like this, in the end you never know how I would react. I am a lead usher in my church, always watching for the wolves, always on alert. Even though I am a staunch 2ND amendment man, I never seriously thought about carrying until now. The one thing I do know is I would lay my life down for another. Once again, thank you for the truth you spoke, the man who died sacrificed all.
Sheep protecting the flock. Good job brother👍
You meant SHEEPDOGS protecting the flock right Joe? If not, that’s one badass sharp shootin’ “sheep” working to protect the flock!
Never a shortage of Monday morning quarterbacks.
If you haven’t been “in the moment” yourself, just learn what you can, without picking it apart.
Very true. This video will undoubtedly be used by many (including some here) for study so as to effectively act in a similar situation, if any of us are unfortunately involved in one.
Being critical of these men who save numerous lives is shameful! Unless you have walked in their shoes, I would tread carefully. I pray for those who were killed and their families and I pray for those who had to draw their guns. I’m sure it will haunt them forever.
This is why I always sit at a certain section in church. I can see everything and everyone from there. Should something happen I can react in time.
Absolutely & Semper Fidelis!
This article pretends it’s some random dude with a gun, but the liveleak video itself says its a COP with a gun.
There goes your “good guy with a gun” bullshit.
Retired LE congregant – not an officer responding to a 911 call. Or is your contention that cops aren’t “good guys”?
Goes against Leftard think that said armed good guy has to be LEO,no just armed citizens can and will suffice as per the 2 nd. amendment.
Good guy who made the shot did seem to be pretty good. But I’m guessing there are millions who are that good who have never worn a badge.
Correct,just go to one of your local Cowboy Action Shoots and see just how effective firearms from cap and ball,single action revolvers,lever action rifles and side by side shotguns can be in the hand of those skilled in their use,some competitors carry a badge for a living and most don’t.
That was a helluva shot under major pressure
wasn’t White Settlement in the news recently for refusing to change their name to one that was less racist?
I haven’t heard anything about that, but given the rise of radical left violence I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the reason for this violence.
Gotta admit the name is pretty damn ironic.
As far as the armed response goes.. a few things to consider..
1) There WAS a armed response. Screw any leftist who harps on any other point. The asshole was zeroed out in short order. If it were not for good guys with guns this situation would have been far, far worse.
2) The kill shot was one-an-done. Fantastic skill under pressure. However, the draw to first shot was simply too slow [approx 4 seconds] to save the others who got hit. Still, he saved many others so, again, screw anyone who says we do not need assault things.
3) Our first hero, likewise, had a slow draw and unfortunately died for it. I understand he is wearing his Sunday best and drawing from the drop [God bless him for trying] but if you are going to carry a gun you need to be mentally prepared and practiced and quick no matter what. A terrible lesson.
At the end of the day this incident was a bitter victory; not least in part because lives were saved by lawfully armed citizens, and a ‘mass shooting’ was ripped from the socialists playbook. You know.. the kind of arbitrary statistic which always includes the worthless shooter.
4) Unpleasant as it may be this needs to be dissected and learned from for the future.
I’ve already downloaded it (for offline archive) and forwarded the link to my own church’s security team. You can bet we’ll definitely be dissecting and discussing this.
“Fantastic skill under pressure. However, the draw to first shot was simply too slow [approx 4 seconds] to save the others who got hit.”
I can guess what probably happened there – Shock froze him into inaction.
“This can’t be real!” (His last thoughts.)
What he saw developing in front of him literally mentally stunned him into inaction. “Freezing in the headlights”. That’s not an uncommon response in accident scenarios, sad to say…
Draw discreetly then swiftly kill the criminal. Don’t catch the attention of the gunman. Standing up, looking towards the criminal and reaching towards your waist is an obvious clue.
Simply profiling would have done a lot of good for this horrible situation. The perpetrator looked like he was a bad guy. I would have had him in my sights the entire time. Furthermore, the perpetrator took approximately 3 seconds to fire his weapon. If someone with a firearm was eyeballing this jackass, he would have been dead before getting to fire his weapon. Take conceal carry classes and join the NRA! Take advantage of our 2nd Amendment Rights! Semper Fidelis!
You are exactly right. Unfortunately, like everything else, people have a tendancy to become complacent. The mindset of what I call the “that could never happen at OUR church” syndrome becomes VERY prevelent, even with those who are trained, and even the well trained. I’m on the security team for my church and also in charge of training. I have to butt heads nearly every week over continued training with someone on the church deacon staff who don’t think we need a security team, much less need to train continually. I hope this tragic video serves to show them once and for all why they are wrong on both counts.
“Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it” should be emblazoned on every gun shop’s wall, every add by the NRA, etc. This is a perfect example of that mantra. We would have lost a lot more people but for the brave folks who came prepared.
I believe that slogan belongs to King Stahlman Bail Bonds.
“It’s better to know me and not need me, than to need me and not know me.”
Good slogan for sure.
I just chose one of the reply buttons so don’t take it, that I am dissecting your post.
For all the ones downing the gentleman who were there and had guns, who “were too slow as you all have stated”, I say, did you ever think that he may not have thought on that day, at that moment, or at his church, that was happening? Or, he may have known that person, he might not have had time to think in those 5 seconds that it went down.
He did pull his gun. He did go out a hero. He did loose his life. A family lost their loved one and you all are “judging ” someone that took a bullet for the entire church!!!
He chose to loose his life for all others!!!
Your still alive to continue criticizing others.
Think before you speak because it can be you next time and your draw may not be as quick as you thought it was.
God picks your time. Honor the ones he picks when they take their lives to save others.
The name could be the last name of some early settler or land owner. Many things are white!
The name was given to the settlement by Native Americans who were living in the area back in the day.
Sounds like it didn’t translate so well.
How many native Americans live there now? Did they get kicked out by European people?
What’s racist about the name?
Its not named after a person whose last name is White. It was literally a whites-only settlement in the past
Common sense gun-violence prevention.
Good guys with guns put that demon down in a couple seconds, they are heroes. That old man with the steady hand without a doubt saved many lives.
I hope he didn’t have a Serpa holster. It looked like he was struggling to get his gun out.
The first holster I bought was a Serpa. I hated it. When I had to draw fast I messed up 90% of the time because I pulled on the gun before I could press the button all the way down. Once that happens you can’t take the gun out unless you push the gun down then start over. I fixed that by pressing very hard on the button but now my finger would slip onto the trigger after I get the gun out.
Holster, belt and clothes are very important for your draw. Everything has to be made to work together. If your pants aren’t fitted well you can pull them up trying to pull your gun out. And so on.
I practice drawing from concealment while moving. I usually move out of the line of fire first then draw to fire. I don’t move backwards and shoot or stand still and draw. Most of the time the gunman will stand still to give him a higher chance of shooting a moving target. If he stands still that gives me a higher chance of hitting him. Because I am moving he has to have practiced shooting quickly moving targets that are firing at him.
I use single retention (free draw) holsters. To get a perfect fit for my G17 outfitted with tac light, I took a double retention Serpa Kydex holster, removed the nub inside that locks the gun into place, and it became a fantastic free-draw with snug fit.
Agreed on the need to draw effectively.
He was slow clearing his cover and was not moving to any sort of cover (not that there was much there, but just a little movement helps)
3.1 seconds from start of draw to where he got shot.
I was talking about the open carrying guard.
When did this shooting become what you or other keyboatd wsrriors would do? Until you face danger in real time, you have no ides how you will react.
Paraphrasing General Patton. We should not mourn that this man died. We should thank God that men like him lived.
If there’s one thing the video of this incident has taught me, it’s that proper defense of a public gathering does not require tactical operators prepared to operate tactically, but rather is best served by one imposing uniformed security guard wearing heavy armor under his uniform (and maybe some shoulder pads to hide the armor and just make him look like he’s just even bigger instead of armored) and at least one unassuming, unflappable armed guard who won’t panic when some thug knocks the big guy down with a shotgun and instead carefully draws from the bad guy’s blind spot and puts one in his brain case.
That or a sniper, but we reserve that for stadium sized events. And I’d still prefer some large, brave soul willing to draw fire on his armor instead of into the crowd, even in that case.
But anyway, yes, my hat is off to the guard who dropped the would be spree killer, and to the two men who drew fire long enough for him to do it (may they make a full recovery and rest in peace, respectively.)
God bless them!! They did their very best , last thing your thinking of , an idiot freak in your church
Gecko45. Have you broken OPSEC and surfaced?
Gecko45 never gets old
Unfortunately, both the victims have died. They did not act to “draw fire”. They were gunned down at close range without so much as a choice to move to safety.
So I have read. Most unfortunate. Heroes both, as well as the man who did manage to deploy his weapon in time to prevent further bloodshed at the hands of this psychotic murderer. But I meant what I said. Watching the video of this attack has taught me that in a public gathering, security is a target unless attackers can’t see them. So should you have to secure such an event, pick a brave man, armor him well and make him stand out. Then place a steely nerved man on his flank at an angle to fire on an attacker with minimal risk of collateral damage. That’s exactly the scenario we wound up with here, minus the armor on the two souls we lost. They stood out and were targeted first, and only quick reactions and quicker draws would have saved them. None of the three men had either, or at least not quick enough. But I think that one well-protected man would have bought that time with an injury rather than his life (or two lives.)
I disagree on the strategy. Our own church’s security team (of which I’m a part) in no way chooses to place any of our members in harm’s way as a “decoy”.
Gecko45, this is Jackal, from HQ. Break contact, secure OPSEC. You have compromised yourself. You will be contacted on emergency channel 1. Prepare to rendezvous at the arcade and exfil to the Orange Julius.
OFWG takes care of business.
My thoughts exactly….old guys rock ! One shot, business concluded. I count like 4 Good Guys in the church.
Better recount. Including the first guy shot, I make it at least 6. Dumbass didn’t stand a chance. Probably believed there were gun-free zones in Texas!
Churches were “gun-free” in Texas up until.a few months ago.
The first OFWG looks like he’s probably taking care of business in the hereafter and likely took the dude on the right along for the ride as well.
Looked to me like the guy on the right got back up. The first guy shot, I don’t have much hope for, but if he died, he died like a man. Standing in front of his friends with a gun in his hand.
Based on the reports on survivors I don’t think either of the guys who got shot by that pump gun survived. Sounds like the second guy shot survived for awhile and died during transport.
Last I read about it the only person who got shot and was still breathing was the BG.
The BG took the room temperature challenge. Not surprising considering it looks like he got domed from 20+feet away. The first defender who took the shotgun blast square in the chest definitely did not make it.
If you can carry, do carry. Also practice, practice, practice. You never know when bad people will do bad things.
pretty impressive response could not have been much faster and lucky to get him with one shot and not have been taken out before he could fire. I would urge responders to never rely on one round and learn the Mozambique techniqe to ensure proper disposal of trash
Good advise,whenever I’m at the range with a pistol i aways do a round of practice,one to the upper and two to the lower panels,till it becomes mussel memory .
Except that the “Mozambique” technique enables an aggressive D.A. to say you intended to kill your opponent, in contrast to only wanting to stop the threat (which may or may not require death). There’s a huge difference. Firing into the ocular cavity and then twice more into the thoracic cavity is a definite intention to kill.
Just saying…be careful of how you choose to train. If you ever need to use it one day, the aftermath might be a hero’s welcome, or it might be a litigious nightmare. Prepare accordingly.
And please learn how to spell.
Given modern reality, Mozambique falls under reasonable.
An attacker on the ground could still use a suicide device. If you’re unable to get the area clear instantly, a couple of anchor shots are entirely warranted.
Agreed, but I interpret your scenario as showing your opponent already shot in the torso. If at that point he’s still moving – from shock, drugs, or determination – and you perceive that he’s still a lethal threat, then you can administer the final shot to end it.
This is a two-stage event, usually two shots, a brief pause, and a third. The ‘Mozambique’ is a single-stage event consisting of three shots to ensure death.
Again, not the same thing, and a potential legal tornado.
The suspect dropped to the floor behind the pews after the one (head) shot – guys didn’t have a clear line of fire to take additional shots. The other armed folks that got to him first probably saw his brains all over the floor and figured additional shots were not necessary.
First guy down fell prey to the magic talisman way of thinking and it cost him.
Nice shooting by the guy on the left though.
Both were very slow on the draw. First one died for being indecisive.
Honestly once the shotgun was pointed at him he was probably fucked no matter what.
None of those people were really paying much attention to what was going on until it was going on and at that point it was too late.
I’m not going to place blame on that one though because the video doesn’t really give any indication of if they could have known until the shotgun was in play. Sometimes you really can do everything perfectly and still lose.
He probably did just fine in training. But in the back of his mind, he knew training wasn’t an actual attack.
This is something you really can’t train for. When the cards are down is only when you know if you have what it takes.
The military is probably familiar with this response to a stress situation…
“He probably did just fine in training.”
The callous, cynical part of me that experience has created urges me to respond to this line with a bunch of “inappropriate” questions that most of the people here would find “offensive”.
The first guy that got shot was interacting with the shooter even before he stood up and reached for his back side. Watch his left hand direct the shooter to come to him.
“Honestly once the shotgun was pointed at him he was probably fucked no matter what. ”
The attacker took 3.1 seconds of staring dumbly before he touched off the first blast.
There are things the first defender could have done better. Staying low and drawing from concealment would not have made his situation any worse. He took forever to clear his cover garment and get a weapon into the fight. A 2-2.5 second commit-to-bang could have ended the attack before it started.
Time to practice more.
“The callous, cynical part of me that experience has created urges me to respond to this line with a bunch of “inappropriate” questions that most of the people here would find “offensive”.”
That deafeningly loud “woosh” sound was that going clear over my (often pointed) head…
“First guy down fell prey to the magic talisman way of thinking and it cost him.”
And what an example of that phenomenon.
Well, if anything, him dying like that on video will be in training videos as an example of what not to do, and what not doing can cost you.
So it wasn’t a complete waste of his life.
“That others may live” The slogan of the SAR unit my pop was with in the late 60’s…
There’s no shortage of such excellent examples, on video, of what not to do. Yet people still think that just having the gun is all they need to do.
I doubt this video will change that. It’s unfortunate but true.
Just check out the training videos they use as part of Project Gecko over in Germany which is run by some former IDF commandos. No one wants to think that kind of shit can happen but it happens all the time.
I mean, consider that he has video of the assault on the hostage taker in the 2014 Sydney hostage crisis. The SWAT team actually botched that one rather badly. Not exactly their “fault” given the circumstances but they broke some rules, flashbanged themselves, and paid for it with an uncontrolled firefight that really shouldn’t have happened.
You have to move. You can’t stand there thinking you will win just because you have a gun. Well, you could stand still if you have body armor on, but not getting shot is always best.
A Houston cop died recently because his vest did not stop pistol rounds. He was shot while in his SUV.
Wait…I think I woke up in Bizarro World…I’m agreeing with you twice in one day. Are you sure you’re Chief Censor??
My firearm instructors always teach us to move after a shot, for the very reason that you may still be on the receiving end of more bullets coming your way. Never stay still in a firefight.
To I Haz,
It is true, the Chief does make sense once now and then.
Movement is situational. If you’re on your own, get off the X. However, what if your kids, partner, or parents are with you? If you haven’t taught them to latch to you and move with you, you’re probably better to stand as a barrier to them than to leave them as vulnerable targets out in the open.
Mark my word an all out Aye TEE Eff Ban on Shockwave and Tac-14 / Tac-13 shotguns is coming SOON
Make your own.
80 percent shotgun receivers are out there…
Imagine magical thinking that would lead you to believe that someone willing to bring a shotgun into a church with murderous intent would even think twice about taking a hacksaw to a legal-length stock and barrel.
Now FB has removed it completely.
I grabbed a copy immediately upon viewing the LiveLeak page.
Video deleted because not allowed to show such violence.
We must always backup evidence because corporations and government will delete it.
They now have AI to automatically censor streams and videos with guns and violence. This is to prevent any records of shootings. Be it suicides, homicides, terror attacks and police shootings.
Yeah. Can’t have the sheeple getting all sweaty over the real thing. /sarc
“We must always backup evidence because corporations and government will delete it.”
I have a copy on my laptop, 7 mb in MP4 format, un-blurred…
Good call and good on you !
This may be more relatable to “yesterday’s news” but worth sharing in a story about an attack at a place of worship.
Not all Jews are taking this passively by saying oy vey and wringing our hands!
May the first good guy with a gun rest in peace, he died trying. The second showed some fine shooting. Good moves by the rest of the staff too, running in the opposite direction of the worshipers.
Video still available on Liveleak dot com
I looked there and didn’t see it. You should post a link. But I’ll look again.
That appears to be the only English site that allows (some) graphic news to stay up.
The American sites all censor the news to keep it family friendly. Although their public TV and movies are full of mock murders.
I’m warning you, don’t click – so don’t say I didn’t warn you.
See the one goof with a gun comes walking down the middle aisle after the shooting stops, aiming his weapon at everyone while the other armed people seem to know what they are doing.
He must be a cop.
Or a keyboard commando getting out for a day
It comes out eventually.
The good guy who stopped the bad guy is a retired FBI agent.
Go ahead, feel dumb.
I doubt he is a retired FBI agent. I doubt he’s retired law enforcement at all unless he retired in the 80’s when revolvers were still in use prior to the use of semi-auto weapons.
I say this because ALL law enforcement officers trained with semi-auto handguns in combat shooting are trained to fire in “2 round bursts”, ESPECIALLY the FBI where this particular type of shooting technique originated back in the late 70’s with their SWAT program and their use of the S&W model 39 handgun which was the first 9mm duty weapon used on a large scale by law enforcement. I also noticed the good guy was not “indexing” his weapon, or scanning the area for other assailants after the bad guy went down, two things that are drilled into recruits on the gun range so much that it would be instinctive in a shooting situation.
Regardless, the good guys prevailed and sent a demon back to hell.
Unfortunately, it was at the expense of a single brave hero who first stood up directly in the line of fire giving his life and saving the lives of literally dozens of innocents. A statue or street should be named after him to honor his bravery and sacrifice.
To @Hutch and all the other Keyboard Warriors
1’. The guard who made the nice shot was a 70 year old retired FBI agent.
“Wilson, who has been credited for providing firearms training to members of the congregation, ran the On Target Firearms Training Academy in Fort Worth, which burned in 2016 and did not reopen, according to the academy.” Per the Dallas Morning Newd
2. The two victims: “The Texas Department of Public Safety said Keith Thomas Kinnunen, 43, of River Oaks opened fire during a Sunday morning service at the West Freeway Church of Christ, killing Anton Wallace, 64, of Fort Worth and Richard White, 67 of River Oaks..”. Wallace was an RN.
Look like the shooter was a white male with long hair dressed in black with a hood and a short barreled shotgun. He shot two people and missed the third. The first man shot was attempting to draw his gun but was way too slow and obvious. The next man shot was the first one the shooter initially pointed the gun at. As the shooter fired a third time security shot him dead [possibly a head shot]. Then about 5 other people whipped out their guns.
It seems the shooter wanted to go after the people running the church.
Most of the people in the church were older and white. There was about 3 black people there at the time.
That looks like the wrong church to do that in. Did everyone see how many people had a weapon? Holy cow, even that lady in the middle getting the kids out had a firearm pointed up in a safe direction.
If this isn’t CLEAR proof to those MORONIC LAME STREAM MEDIA dick weeds that guns save lives, I don’t know what else is needed. If everyone had been disarmed, the shooter would have killed many more and what a GREAT SHOT by the guard. Looks like he got him in the dome.
One of my hobbies is situational awareness.
You must not own a cellphone then.
Woman moving kids to safety had best muzzle awareness
She couldn’t point it down safely. There was only one place for her to safely keep her firearm pointed and that was up.
She followed a basic rule, keep your weapon pointed in a safe direction until you are ready to fire.
Texas church shooting where no one in the church confronted the shooter with their own gun… 26 dead.
Texas church shooting where several in the church confronted the shooter with their own gun…1 maybe 2 innocent people dead.
All the circumstances surrounding this shooting are not known, but the armchair keyboard commandos are putting in their (worthless) 2 cents. I say good job given the situation, the other option is to call 911 and wait.
Greater love hath no man than this that a man lay down his life for his friends. (John 15:13)
That man sacrificed his life to save others and I think he did just that… He gave the guard the time he needed to process his OODA loop. IMHO… That shot was guided by the very had of God.
Praying for everyone affected by this evil.
Carry on and God Bless…
“Greater love hath no man than this that a man lay down his life for his friends.” (John 15:13)
Forgot my quotes… I sure could use an edit button…
you have to check the savemy name, button to be able to edit posts.
In the midst of what seems like an endless number of horrid comments, I greatly applaud you for your Godly statement! How wonderful it is to see spot of love amid so much hate!
Thank you for your kindness and compassion in this exceedingly sad situation. The precious men that perished should be honored, not slandered.
Matthew 22.37-40 (& John 15.12,13; 13.34,35 🙂 )
I ask our glorious Father to bless you mightily and shine on you & yours 🙂 🙂
As someone who shoots in situational courses monthly, making sure I’m as prepared for this as possible, I can’t stress regular practice and not just paper targets. Drawing from the holster you wear daily, in clothes you normally wear, and from concealment.
God bless the first man who tried and he should be honored for the attempt to act. The other “first responders” did well, although, based on training, shouldn’t be running through a crowd with weapons raised.
I applaud the ability to protect myself, especially in my place of worship as it should be one of the safest places. Not a target.
I’m sure we’ll see comments attacking this but the video is proof that regular people, who are armed can and will protect and defend themselves successfully.
Lt. Gov. Patrick and others at the last presser, made the point that the “Citizen Responders” are the most important, not the police and other so called “First Responders”. Hopefully that message will get across to the rest of the country, starting with the Virginia government.
If the LEO are first responders, then the day was saved by Zeroth Responders, Zero Day responders to steal a term from cyber security. We need more of these.
Good thing the killer was killed. I can’t stand it when these MFers spend decades in jail at our expense.
I’m very sorry for the loss of the family of the deceased and hope the other wounded makes a full recovery.
I’m with you on this. Take him out. Dont care about his sad life story. He’s done.
And don’t publish his name. Bury it in the case file and don’t allow it to ever see the light of day. The history books should show only a smudge where his name used to be.
The first guard made the fatal mistake of drawing without moving. I hate to judge the dead, but standing still and drawing against a drawn shotgun probably isn’t going to cut it. This just goes to show that practicing drawing and shooting is a good idea.
Hat’s off to the second guard though. I only heard one shot from him, so it seems like he made a classic “one shot stop” from a distance of at least 30 feet against a moving target. I can’t say for sure, but it looked like a head shot. Very impressive performance.
Literally heard about this from the mainstream media, so can you please shut the fuck up about “You won’t hear the liberal media cover this story!” bullshit? Fuck.
If these wasn’t video CCN would have spun this and those wankers still may.
Bob P how about showing some control . We are all very well aware how the liberal media idiots have responded in the past. This just happen to be a live video that is indisputable by the media, so that the only way they report this story for once with the truth.
Don’t even act as though the liberal media would not have twisted this story to fit the communist agenda had there not been an actual video. We know very well they would have surely twisted this in to gun control
Prayers to the mans family, had he not reacted them would most likely have been more killed or or injured GOD bless all of those there
The difference is they won’t have a panel where everyone basically agrees with one another discussing it for a week like they do politically convenient topics.
Very frightening situation, thankfully it was quickly ended by the “Good Guys” with their own guns.
It really does make you think about what are the potential solutions or at least best/better options for dealing with gun violence. On this occasion it has certainly been proven that good guys with guns can and will help take down those bad guys with guns
Thoughts are with all who are effected, cheers!
We can criticize the first guy who got shot from the comfort of our Lazy Boy chairs, but I can cite numerous examples of allegedly trained police officers who died because they made similar mistakes. Trying to draw on someone who already has a gun on you is usually fatal, for you. This is why police so often draw their weapons and take aim based on the situation rather than wait for a subject to draw on them.. However; he drew the perp’s attention which enabled every other armed person in the congregation to draw their weapons before they were shot.
May God bless him.
Say what you will about the “fat guy” with the slow draw however he captured the murder’s attention and drew his fire allowing the other armed congregants to dispatch the murderer. We all think we are going to be the one that takes down the bad guy, but we might just be the sacrificial guy. Ready to, and DID, put his life on the line for others. This defines a hero and he deserves our respect. God bless him.
Lessons paid for in blood are just that, paid for in blood. We only compound the tragedy if we refuse to take a good, hard look at what happened. What went right and what went wrong. Credit where it’s due and criticism where it’s due.
There’s nothing disrespectful about analyzing what happened and pointing out where mistakes may have been made. Including where they might have been made long before the actual event. If we do that right some feelz might get hurt BUT hopefully the result means that the mistake or mistakes do(es)n’t get repeated in the future and then this guy’s death saves even more lives when the lessons from his death drive the evolution of training for these kind of situations.
Unfortunately, this is true. The first defender who fell should be honored, but his actions should be studied so as to avoid a repeat elsewhere in the future, and thereby save some other defender’s life.
hey fucktard, NO ONE ever says you shouldn’t have armed guards.
Way to make this political asshole.
“hey fucktard, NO ONE ever says you shouldn’t have armed guards.
Way to make this political asshole.”
Tell that to people in states where guns are banned by lawfrom churches, or Mormons for that matter, “asshole”.
You gun grabbers always lie.
I hope somebody reminds the left that a clown in NY STABBED 6 and this guy could have stabbed 2 or 3. It takes a GOOD guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with ANY weapon. Just ask the English and some other Europeans.
I only heard 3 total shots. So 2 from the bad guy and 1 from a good guy? That’s impressive not only that a good guy landed an immediately incapacitating shot, but also that all involved had the clarity to not put others in danger with excessive shooting.
The POS probably intended to take out more. But saw brave men drawing on him. Never crossed his mind that there would be armed people there to defend themselves. So the POS coward fled and caught one heck of a shot to the head and dropped like a rock. Unfortunately he probably didn’t suffer at all. The poor man that was shot 2nd had nowhere to go and kept trying to stand up. Sad even. Too bad that POS didn’t die a slow painful death like the scumbag deserved.
Yeah, kinda strange considering it’s Texas. Anyone should have expected that – in addition to the open-carrying security guard(!) – there would have been other guns in the same room. Not too bright on the part of the perp.
Unless his plan didn’t include his own survival. He might have wanted to take out as many people as possible, including a specific individual, before being overtaken.
The video is on Youtube
Obama’s son came in with a shotgun on safe and no round in the chamber. Precious seconds, precious seconds.
Thank you for sharing this Dan Zimmerman. I agree with the “good guys with guns” thing.
What I don’t appreciate is your last sentence: “look for this story to get far less media attention than it otherwise would have.”
Using a disturbing, horrible, and tragic video to rail against the “liberal media” is not a good thing.
May God bless everyone who had to experience this.
Happy Holidays Dan,
The liberal media needs derision at every opportunity. It’s not because they’re liberal. It’s because they’re evil. Like Satanic Evil. All they do is lie about everything causing harm to people who believe their drivel and causing harm to people who don’t believe them in that the good people have to fight the lies. Dan is not mistaken. The liberal media will give as little coverage to this event as they possibly can and try to negate the heroism of the congregants who took decisive action. Educate yourself. The liberal media is evil.
Mr. Tobey, Dan Zimmerman was right to say such a thing because it is the truth. The news media does such things, as recently seen Project Veritas’s expose of ABC halting their staff’s investigation into Jeffrey Epstein that would have exposed and other famous, powerful people.
Here is a very recent example of one of the people who shape the news for the the media’s audience:
I bet the left is wringing their fists in anger that an armed person no matter what criticism you can flail at him stopped a potential “mass shooter” before he could shoot anyone (other than the brave defenders). Mad Mommies are beating their breasts and banging their heads against the wall, and Mickey Bloomers is changing his bloomers. One less potential case to push all of their anti2A agenda quickly through the state and national legislatures before SCOTUS decides the NY Rifle case, takes on another new 2A case (which SCOTUS has hinted at) or the notorious RBG goes the way of other notorious rappers.
Correct. But… the Disarmament Cartel will try to turn this around into a case for banning and confiscating all the guns in America. Wait and watch.
You are right, because the person initiating the attack (ie., the bad guy) had a firearm, all firearms are evil. If in a Utopian Firearmless world no one had a firearm, then the use of firearms would not have been necessarily needed in defense. However, the latter half of the 19th and the entire 20th and apparently the first fifth of the 21st centuries have taught us to be wary of such Utopian ideals. The only end result of disarming the masses has been unequivocal subjugation of those same masses.
STFU you goofy D&D playing, basement dweller of your parent’s home! In a TRUE Utopian world, we would get rid of the millenial morons like you who are a drain on society!
Read my comment carefully and then repeat. You are even allowed to borrow your mommy’s dictionary if you have any trouble.
Hey jerkoff…we both know who and what you are. You’re a snivelling, bedwetting, momma’s titty suckin’, little dicked, local gay ad placing, no job, no future having piece of shit that hides behind a computer playing toughguy running your dick sucker and doing absolutely nothing else purposeful in life. That’s what I think of you.
Hutch, you sound very intelligent.. NOT…
I am a woman, thank you very much and I can run circles around you and your brain. Get a personality. I pray for you.
No need to reaoond, I won’t waste my time by responding back. God will handle you…
Oh ok…my mistake you Libtard man-hating, got daddy issues, didn’t get enough attention when you were a child, opioid eating, millenial piece of shit. How’s that?…better?
What a SCARY SCENE to welcome the year 2020!
God please save your people!
Basic , good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns. Sacrifices/mistakes made. Learn from them and practice the changes needed.
“Speed is nice, but accuracy is everything..”
Another way to save the video…from your cell, turn on screen recording then play the video.
Pretty bad now can’t even go praise the Lord in peace without being at the ready in case you need fo engage with some devil who wants to do harm to everybody. The priest reminds all the parishioners on a regular basis to be alert. Nobody sleeping in church anymore.
Our church in Central Illinois has a volunteer armed security team, and I am on it. Our team will be studying this video for weeks… it was handled SO WELL. My prayers go out to every congregant there, they will never be the same having gone through that 6 seconds of hell. Kuddos for being prepared. Every church needs to get serious about having an armed response ready for a day like this. And thank you Founding Fathers for making sure we have the right to self protection.
I’m disappointed in this article. It wasn’t a guard or was members of the congregation. Please get your info right. People who cary at church is common in Texas. It is also legal and this is a great example of why citizens should not let those rights go.
Yall better back Virginia in defending their gun rights! They will come for yours next folks!
Stupid wenches screaming like banshees. Lesson for more people in congregation to carry guns.
I wonder if having the kids flee scene is good idea so soon – in event there were multiple shooters – may be best to stay down and simply have “good gunmen surround and protect” especially since kids likely sit in groups and or beside parents. Prayers with family of deceased and church. Wonder what is recommended….
I assume recommendation is by default vague in order to leave adequate discretion for infinite possible situations.
The Liberals and the Left want you disarmed so they can murder you more easily. Never give up your guns.
No more gun control laws. Repeal them all. God bless the defenders and the victims.
“But had the church not had armed individuals in the congregation and ready to respond, this could have been a far worse situation than it already was.”
If you are going to play hypotheticals, then consider all the possibilities before making a running commentary on outcomes you are guessing at. For example;
1. Had the shooter used a semi or semi-automatic weapon and sprayed the congregation standing at the rear of the building, a lot more people would have died. In other words, the GG shooter was not the reason a massacre was averted – poor weapon choice was
2. Had the Federal Gov. enforced sensible background checks, this maniac would have been weeded out by law enforcement long ago
3. Had the State and Federal govt spent significant more money on mental health reform and support, this manic would have received the help he needed ten years ago and gone on to be productive member of society
4. Had the church body searched and scanned everyone for weapons upon arrival, this tragedy would have been averted
5. Had family/friends closest to the manic recognised his odd behaviour and reported him, this whole thing would never had happened in the first place.
6. Had the GG shooter not been at church, more people would have died. To add weight to this argument, the GG shooter was a trained police officer. How many of us can claim that?
I could go on. Believing guns saves lives is a statistical nonsense. I note a comment from a fellow poster here claiming the number of lives saved from GG ownership is in the “mid thousands.” He said it like it was good stat and lamented why nobody reported it. Here is why. There has been a world record 406 massacres this year alone (Where were the GG then I could ask??). This amongst world record gun ownership. Another 40 000 have died from fire arms. More world records. Owning guns clearly does not stop people killing each other or themselves for that matter. Even if every member of that congregation already had their guns drawn pointed at the maniac, it still would not have helped. If gun owners would just come clean and admit that the real reason why own guns is because they like them, rather than living in a Hollywood fantasy that they actually protect people. If you did this, then you might find a more honest and useful debate about gun ownership could begin.
Your ridiculous argument makes as much sense as saying although there are tens of thousands of fatal car crashes per year, the automotive manufacturing industry does nothing to advance the existance of mankind by continuing to manufacture vehicles in spite of those killed in traffic accidents. If you want to face something, face the fact that YOU are a Libtard who’s against the 2nd Ammendment no matter what the case may be. Save your breath, nobody here wants to hear your anti-american liberty sentiments. Buh-Bye!
I could’ve sworn we ‘thought and prayed’ ourselves out of these situations.
Before you get triggered (sorry for the pun), I am pro 2nd amendment, and know a good guy with a gun will always beat a bad guy with a gun.
I wish stories like this would make the news more, with top headlines. Not only would it quiet down the rumble of the useless ‘gun free zones’, but it would encourage more protectors and discourage the aggressors.
Y’all are a bunch of dumb fucks, your watching a video and saying the mans to slow. This just shows how incompetent y’all are about protection. The man stood up and defended his church, no matter what the outcome he is a true warrior. Half of you assholes haven’t even been in a one on one fight, let along a fucking shoot out. The first man to stand up and fight back, nothing but respect to you sir
YOU are EXACTLY right
NO POLITICS Initial Analysis of Murders in White Settlement TX Church
God bless and keep the man who died and the one who is critical. All the pussified frightened people who think guns kill people keep you asses quiet.
Rotten people kill people…. with knives, rocks, feet, hands, anything.
GOOD people with guns kill bad guys with guns, Rick’s, knives etc. Looked like a head shot from a well trained shooter.
Kudos Sir, I pray God’s blessings on you and yours. Your brave and decisive decisions prevented a massacre. 🙏🏾💞🙏🏻
The demon possessed cretin is at the gates of hell wondering “how TF did I get here?” 😂🤣😂
Personally, I hope he didn’t die right away so he could FEEL exactly what’s He’s inflicted in other innocent people.
So at the end of the article it states this…”For that reason — because an armed individual used a firearm to stop a threat — look for this story to get far less intense or ongoing media attention than it otherwise would have.” That is total bullshit! This story received complete coverage from all media outlets!!! The truth about guns.com is trying to divide!!! WHY???? And was that statement really necessary?
and everyone misses the one key thing
this happened in a church……why?….. wouldnt you have thought that god would have protected ‘his faithful’, especially in his own place of worship
almost like he dosnt exist…or cares
You almost sound like my grandfather. He lost all of his family thanks to the nazi’s. He joined to fight them and lost his brother and 2 cousins who has remained in the U.S. like him and had also joined to fight.
After the Shoah he was in several camps as an interpreter. He spent the rest of his life saying there either was no God or if there was he was not worth worshiping. Luckily my Grandmother and relatives on Mom’s side did not feel as he did. He was a good man who was in an unfortunate time.
But the odds are instead you are an opportunist, any chance you get to advance your ideology is taken.
As an militant atheist who probably is also antigun you take any chance you can to announce your views.
My suggestion is to crawl back under whatever rock you came from. Your kind are unwanted here.
actually im not anti gun…………im a military veteran, i own guns from .22 to .45-70
ive seen things that to me, prove god dosnt exist
if he wants me to believe all he has to do is appear and say hello, not much for something all powerful, is it?
Because he doesn’t exist. According to the bible, he’s omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent. That is, he’s supposed to be everywhere, knows everything, and controls everything. If evil exists in the world, he can not. Evil exists, therefore he does not. A lot of smart people were atheists, george carlin, steven hawking, the list goes on.
You need Jesus. Somewhere in your life you’ve been caused to lose your faith. Either by your own hand, your parent(s), or by a friend(s) who’ve lost their faith.
I will pray for you.
Ever hear of a thing called free will?
Evil is mankind choosing himself with selfish evil actions. God respects us enough to allow are actions to be our own.
If he did not we would simply be puppets.
everyone is a keyboard warrior and an expert on what he should have done
most on here shouting their mouths off ,who if they had been there would have been out of the door running for their lives with brown underrpants on
EXACTLY! This TRAINED AND EXPERIENCED gun owner and carrier saved more people from injury or death. He was CALM, collected and focused in an INSTANT that NO one who has NOT been in his position can say what they would do or COULD do! Thank you!
Can we get this trending? PLEASE!
Thanks I will use this!!!
Arm chair replye’s on what they should have done or not have done. They have no conception what would have happen if it were them in this GUN BATTLE. Also, if it were me the good guy i would only fire to protect my loved one or self. You want protection BRING YOUR OUN GUN. 911 DOES NOT WORK
Watched this video several times from the perspective of the Church Security Team and what we can learn from this. I cannot criticize either victim.
1) Even though the armed victim failed to draw his weapon in time, he did accomplish drawing the focus of the attacker away from the rest of the congregants and give the other security team members time to learn of the situation and respond. His action most likely saved several lives.
2) While there is an active shooter in play, the attention obviously needs to remain on the threat. Security members need to train to give commands to congregants to stay down, to not muzzle congregants, and not put themselves in the line of friendly fire. Situational awareness includes watching 360 degrees.
3) After the threat is contained, it would make sense to have a medical team ready to act to do what they can to help victims. I am not sure there was anything that could of been done in this situation with a shotgun blast at short range and in no way criticizing the care given to the victims. The churches I have been in have included congregants that were nurses, paramedics, firemen, and even doctors. These professions are typically quick to respond, but unless organized as a team, they may not have the appropriate “tools” on hand to triage while waiting for the 911 responders. I’m not a medical professional or first-responder, but seeing this video makes me believe it would be a good discussion to have with them.
Again, my commentary is not in anyway a criticism of this security team’s response. Rather, it is a consideration of items to cover when training our own security team.
If nothing else, any place where people gather should have a professional,military grade trauma kit….actually, everybody should have one,somewhere.
Most everyone in the church ducked down quietly. However if the shooter hadn’t been shot, the black lady in the back would have been next. She kept screaming, drawing attention to herself. Then she stood up making herself an easy target. She is one lucky lady.
Bet me the goblin isn’t a gentleman of color………..
It’s very sad but yes due to the quick action they prevented less deaths. I want to know why the woman the young woman in the far left is running around screaming running toward the action screaming some more and running back and forth clearly everyone needs training on what to do with an active shooter. You don’t run toward the scene
We all saw the horrific video we don’t need a play by play from anyone. We could all say what we would do in a situation that we aren’t in. That’s easy to do when you are sitting in the comfort of your home watching a video. To call any of these men names is disgusting. That is someone’s son, husband, father and grandfather. People who do terrible things like this shooting are terrible and so are people who have no compassion for others. How anyone could watch that video then criticize his form and how fast he drew his gun!? Like that’s where your thoughts went!? How? No compassion for him, his family, his church, his town, his state and our country. Shame on you.
> For that reason — because an armed individual used a firearm to stop a threat — look for this story to get far less intense or ongoing media attention than it otherwise would have.
Wow, way to make this about media. Also, it’s literally the top story on CNN.com right now, but keep pushing your faux narrative.
Maybe both individuals would not have been shot if the first man would have stayed in his seat. Looks like he locked the cop view while both tried to draw forcing the hand of the shooter. If you look at the congregation how many are wearing hoodies? Cop should have been behind him at the beginning and picked him off. He did shoot when their was no one around to obstruct in his line of sight and getting in the way.
My condolences to the family of the victims.
Trident84: what planet are you on? I just looked at CNN and there is 5 articles on truth and then something about the movie dirty dancing. Who is push an addenda here? If you ever attend Frontsite in NV, you will find out that the media does not often report on the good gun owner saving lives; it happens weekly in this country(on average). I believe the number of lives saved last year was in the mid-thousands, but unlike you I won’t throw out fact that are complete lies so I won’t pretend to know the number. That is the point though, isn’t it. We don’t know because this info is omitted from almost all gun research. The sole reason for rationally owning a firearm other than sport and we omit that data and only focus on “gun violence”. If we researched anything else this way, there would be no cancer treatment and definitely no such thing as the scientific method. #pitiful
Nothing earthshaking to say here, just extremely impressed with how quickly the bad guy was put down. Six seconds, we’re told! Six seconds! God bless Texas.
Thixotropic, Total disrespect by calling a good man a fat guy. That man stood up to defend his friends and family and died doing it.
Bless the big man who took the hit. I hope his family can see what a true hero he was….he was slow, but I think his biggest problem was – he wasn’t on yellow. He was on white. I am a former police officer, I am always on yellow, still, and when I go into crowds I am orange. I have been in danger zones were I turned on red. I had some real good training, some of it by the FBI, and had a lot of active-shooter training which is priceless. Most civilians never get real firearms training, including learning situational awareness. A lot of folks in gun-friendly states learn from their friends or are self-taught, which I don’t think is a good idea, maybe in the 1800s but not today. People need to seek real training by a professional. Proof is right here by this awesome shot by a professionally trained hero.
Unfortunately , the church members should have focused on the shooter as soon as he had entered the church. There was at least one member, a mother, who saw this dude and was collecting her child and husband and getting out/away from this goblin.
If you watch the interview with the gentleman that shot the shooter. He stated that they were suspicious of the shooter and were watching him. I’d say, the reason that the two members were shot is because they were close watching him and he just pulled out the shotgun so fast that they didn’t have time to draw. A shotgun is definitely going to scatter out more shot so the gunman didn’t even have to aim.
Biden would rather have had these people die like dogs at the slaughter to prove his point thast guns are bad.
Biden is Mr. Tough Guy and wouldn’t need a gun. He would just walk right up to the killer, take his gun away from him and challenge him to pump out push-ups.
Should the first guy have drawn on the perp? Seeing that the perp already had him lined up, and being that close? Would he have been better off putting his hands up and give time for his partner (further away) to do exactly what he did?
Pretty sure the “over hang” mentioned……..were the clothes this brave man was wearing. He had to go past a couple of layers to get a grip on his weapon. Something to think about,hey?
From what I understand it was a .357 SIG that produced that one shot kill.
I thought that was a useless caliber? Funny how dead it made that guy.
I guess the perp didn’t study FBI ballistic tests?
It was a headshot. Pretty much anything but maybe 22LR would have put him down. Not to say .357 SIG is useless – if you like it, use it.
Can you believe these brainless liberal Democraptic douche canoes are bitching and complaining because a known “American killing terrorist” was finally put out of his goat blowing misery?
That’s it, I’m definitely voting RED this time and I’m walking away from the Democraptic party like millions of other Americans have already done and I’m quite sure millions of other Americans will do!
#walkaway from useless liberals!
My sympathy, and heartfelt gratitude goes out to the defenders…they were brave. However….we must not forget the shooter is someone’s’ son, father, brother, uncle, or husband. He is a human being who made a bad choice. It may be his only criminal decision….or not. The prisons are full of people defamed because of one bad action….and will be remembered only for their one (or maybe more) criminal actions. His family, and loved ones will go through hell as long as they live because of the actions of their loved ones…and that is sad, and something they do not deserve.
Let’s remember they are being punished for their crime(s) …… and they are loved, Cared for, and missed By their family and loved ones. They, too, are grieving like the victims of this persons crime. They are victims of this horrendous act, too! The prisons are full of flesh and blood human beings that are loved, cherished and missed by their family and friends too! We need more compassion in my opinion.