When Rational Arguments About Guns Are Utterly Useless

We’ve all been there. We try to commit to memory some basic facts about guns in our society to keep at our fingertips should the need arise. We want to be ready if we find ourselves challenged by someone who can’t understand why anyone needs a gun.

For instance, there’s the fact that your child is more likely to be struck by lightning that the victim of a school shooting.

There’s the fact that, contrary to media-hyped hysteria, we’re not experiencing an “epidemic of gun violence” in this country. In fact, America is at a historic low in the rate of both violent crime and crimes involving firearms.

US Violent crime rate

Courtesy Statista

There’s the fact that in a nation of more than 350 million firearms (probably a LOT more) owned by 100 million people, you’re about seven times more likely to be killed by your doctor than you are a gun.

And then there’s one of our favorites: the number of defensive gun uses. According to the CDC, Americans use guns in defensive situation somewhere between 500,000 and 2.5 million times a year, depending on who’s doing the counting. That’s hundreds of thousands — maybe millions — of robberies, burglaries, assaults, rapes and murders prevented with the use of a firearm (most often without pulling a trigger).

But there are some people for whom rational argument is a waste of time.

The mind boggles at how a sentient human can associate the utility of life insurance with personal defense. We were unfamiliar with Ms. Blair, but according to her Twitter profile,

My blog has the most thoughtful parenting convos on the web. NYT bestselling author. Founder of @AltSummit. Mother of 6. I use Twitter to amplify voices I love.

There were, of course, plenty of pithy comebacks.

 

 

While the responses were definitely entertaining, there comes a time when you have to realize that you’re wasting your breath (or electrons) and probably raising your blood pressure to no avail.

So as we prepare to gather with friends and family this weekend, keep the above in mind. If you find yourself in one of those debates with someone like Gabrielle Blair — someone for whom rational thought is just an unattainable ideal — take a deep breath, cut your losses, change the subject, go make yourself a drink, or go outside and throw a football around with the kids.

Do something that you’ll actually enjoy and that has the potential of producing an actual positive result.

Happy Thanksgiving.

comments

  1. avatar Darkman says:

    As stated many times: Never try to teach a pig to sing…It wastes your time and annoys the pig…Err Liberal. Same Same.

    1. avatar GomeznSA says:

      Dark – at least the pig is a source for bacon and pork chops. I’m STILL looking for an actual use for liberals, well except for dark comedy.

      1. avatar Darkman says:

        The best use I’ve found so far. Is to figure out what will trigger them. Apply the necessary stimulus. Then set back and watch their head explode.

  2. avatar LifeSavor says:

    Sometimes, it is not stupidity, but fear.

    “As long as I stick with what CNN and NPR are telling me, I do not have to worry about being wrong.”

    “Why should I believe you gun people; you clearly have a conflict of interest. CNN and NPR do not have such conflict.”

    “I am too busy to research every issue; I depend upon authoritative sources like CNN and NPR.”

    Fear of being wrong, fear of independent thought, fear of the the work needed to self-educate.”

    1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      LifeSavor,

      Sometimes fear is the cause.

      Other times emotional PAIN is the cause.

      With respect to our long and deeply held positions on extremely important topics, accepting that we are wrong is excruciatingly painful. The emotional pain is almost on par with learning that your spouse who you cherish is having an affair.*

      Many people do not want to experience that level of emotional pain so they simply refuse to face facts and admit that they are wrong.

      * A cherished spouse who has an affair has betrayed your relationship. Acknowledging that you are wrong on an extremely important topic means recognizing that someone betrayed you with false information and/or that you betrayed yourself and your family with a wrong life strategy. And that betrayal could have caused disastrous consequences for you and/or your family.

      1. avatar Ing says:

        It really sucks to discover that people and institutions you trust have been using and manipulating you. That truths you once accepted are lies designed to harm you.

        It’s painful *and* fear-inspiring, and most people will go to desperate lengths to avoid it.

        I can relate with this to some degree because I used to simply accept most of the anti-gun “liberal” talking points, and it took me years to finally abandon that stuff — and I actually tend to enjoy testing my beliefs and assumptions with logic and evidence, which (in my experience) very few people do.

        Emotion is more powerful than logic, and that’s true for everyone. It can make people ignore the facts, but without it facts simply don’t matter at all.

        1. avatar Prndll says:

          Your comment in it’s entirety….

          This applies to many things, not just firearms. This also applies to social media.

      2. avatar Craig in IA says:

        “Sometimes fear is the cause.”

        Perhaps, but most often (I believe) is the fact that the vast majority of those making arguements on either side really have no connection to the violence and forms of assault they claim they are trying to avoid, including myself.

        Most of us don’t worry about being mugged when we go out on the street, or being shot at in a mall, theatre or other public venue. I’ve been carrying everyday, everywhere, for something like 8 years and to date the only time I’ve unholstered my handgun was on a rural recreational path to shy a damn coyote off of my dog’s tail. (And like most DGUs, I didn’t have to fire it when the critter saw me.)

        It’s a bit different from those who are forced to live in the hell-hole of a large, inner city urban ‘hood, where I taught school for 30 years. Those people knew many others personally who’d been shot, assaulted, robbed, bullied, and forced into every other form of human indignity. They knew the value of having access to a firearm or other swift means of self-defense, even if it as only a Louisville Slugger. If the majority of “us” had to live in that same squalor there’d be little argument concerning personal protection. The best thing we could do at this point is to require our lawmakers to live in the “projects” they built and not allow them to bring in their rent-a-cops for protection. They might soon have a vision similar to the original Founders concerning RKBA.

  3. avatar dph says:

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    ― Mark Twain

    1. avatar VicRattlehead says:

      Wise man, that Mr Clemens.

    2. avatar Hannibal and the Elephants says:

      ROFLMAO 🙂

    3. avatar Seems I Already Posted This Before? says:

      I give up. Seems TTAG can read my mind and insists that I have already posted what I am to post.
      Arrrgggh.
      ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!

  4. avatar Son Of Alan says:

    Sorry to be a spelling Nazi:
    light·ning
    /ˈlītniNG/
    noun
    the occurrence of a natural electrical discharge of very short duration and high voltage between a cloud and the ground or within a cloud, accompanied by a bright flash and typically also thunder.
    “a tremendous flash of lightning”

  5. avatar Gov. William J Le Petomane says:

    I don’t carry a gun because I think I’ll need it, I carry a gun because it’s my GODDAMN RIGHT! If you don’t like it, Molon Labe.

    End of argument.

    1. avatar Bob in Calif says:

      Agreed!!!

  6. avatar dph says:

    I checked her twitter page and this is now how I feel,

  7. avatar The Rookie says:

    Ah, good ol’ Gabrielle Blair. The one who says- among other wacky things – men are 100% responsible for all unintended pregnancies.

    But hey, she has a design blog, that makes her an expert, and stuff about guns and whatnot….

    1. avatar DesertDave says:

      Well, she might have a point there on men being 100% responsible for all unintended pregnancies (save for that one 2000+ years ago). If you don’t want to have a pregnancy then you don’t want those little swimmers getting anywhere that might cause unintended consequences. The same as the gun is not responsible it is the human behind the gun. No matter what you might be shooting, you need to follow the rules.

  8. avatar M1Lou says:

    She only responded a few times, then fled the field to her safe space when she started to get roasted. She is another lefty nutter that lives in a big city and is shielded from reality.

    1. avatar Southern Cross says:

      Until that reality breaks down her door and is found hours later with a phone dialled to 911 and the operator repeating “Hello”, “Hello”.

  9. avatar Dan W says:

    You do not argue rights, you fight for them. The only response to gun control worth anything is “fuck you I will kill you if you try. So put up or shut up.”

    You don’t win by being tolerant of those who wish to destroy you.

    1. avatar Baldwin says:

      “You don’t win by being tolerant of those who wish to destroy you.” Excellent!

    2. avatar Someone says:

      That’s what I always thought was the meaning of “Molon labe!”.

  10. avatar Kendahl says:

    I tend to think mathematically. It goes with my education in physics and my career in engineering.

    Years ago, I read a (liberal’s) complaint that it cost as much to send a criminal to prison as to send someone to an Ivy League college. At about the same time, I read that a typical career burglar stole three times that amount every year. The combination led me to propose sending the criminal to prison and using the savings to send two deserving students to college.

    In 2018, the violent crime rate was 368.9 per hundred thousand. With a population of 327.2 million, that means a bit more than 1.2 million violent crimes. According to the CDC, somewhere between 500 thousand and 2.5 million violent crimes were thwarted with the aid of firearms. Therefore, the consequence of achieving the gun grabbers’ dream would be at least a 40% increase in violent crime and as much a tripling it.

    1. avatar Scott C. says:

      There’s actual proof of that. If you go to the crime rate in the Australian governments web site (I’m too lazy to look it up again, then copy and paste it here) violent crimes such as assault, aggravated robbery and rape have gone up 25-40% since there gun confiscation. Yes, “mass shootings” went down as did suicide by gun, but suicide via other means went up.

  11. avatar Narcoossee says:

    “lighting”, not “lightening”

  12. avatar Bob says:

    You can’t fix stupid, no matter how well educated it is.

  13. avatar Russell Bowman says:

    Carry a concealed weapon in public? No way! Risks are high I might be in prison if I do not use this weapon legally in a split second situation. Carry a gun on a hike in the wilderness, yes, for self defense or hunting. Keep a gun in the home, yes, if some one invades our home, expect a 12 gauge to be ready for our defense. It all depends on the place and situation for me. I keep my shot gun because it takes at least 20 minutes for the sheriff to get here.

    1. avatar Baldwin says:

      “Carry a concealed weapon in public? No way! Risks are high…” Risks are high??? Isn’t that the main reason for concealed carry?

    2. avatar Someone says:

      Risks are high I might be in a coffin if I do not use this weapon in a split second situation.

      Have you heard the old saying “Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.”?

      You need to consider your situation and then make the decision for yourself. Don’t trust yourself? Don’t want to carry? Don’t carry! Don’t want to own a gun? Don’t buy one! But let others to decide for themselves what’s best for them.

    3. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      Russel Bowman,

      Carry a concealed weapon in public? No way! … Carry a gun on a hike in the wilderness, yes, for self defense …

      There are many public places which carry a greater risk of attack than wilderness areas. (Hence the term “concrete jungle”.) If you carry a self-defense firearm “in the wilderness”, then you should carry a self-defense firearm in public places as well.

    4. avatar Kendahl says:

      Depending on where you live, risk can be high that you will be dead or crippled for life if you don’t use a weapon in a split second situation.

      Two things will keep you out of prison after a DGU. One is education; the other is self defense insurance. The combination will keep you out of court, much less out of prison, because you will know what not to do while carrying and you will have a good (i.e. expensive) lawyer.

      Read Andrew Branca’s book, The Law of Self Defense. Then, buy and view his Level 1 training video and the supplement for your state. Finally, sign up for his blog. Basic membership is free. Think of his blog as continuing education that illustrates and reinforces what he teaches in his book and DVDs.

      Get self defense insurance to pay your legal bills after a DGU. A good plan will pay up front and will cover you no matter how you defend yourself. Three good providers are CCW Safe, ACLDN and USCCA.

    5. avatar Prndll says:

      I will have mine with me as often as possible, regardless. but I think it’s pointless to carry it while in the shower.

      1. avatar Bubba says:

        My muscular buttocks grip the top slide while I shower

        1. avatar Guesty McGuesterson says:

          How do you rack the slide?

      2. avatar BoG 2.0 says:

        “How do you rack the slide?”

        WTF? You carry on an empty chamber?

  14. avatar anarchyst says:

    The questions that are never asked (but should be):
    –Why are the 99.99% of law-abiding firearms owners being demonized and blamed for the actions of a minuscule minority that is causing problems?
    –Why are inanimate objects (firearms) that have no will of their own being blamed for the actions of unstable individuals?
    –Why are laws always directed at restricting the rights of law-abiding firearms owners rather than being directed at criminal law-breakers?
    We are constantly being told not to “judge all (insert group here)” by the actions of a few, yet firearms owners are lumped in with those unstable individuals who wish to do harm.

    1. avatar Hannibal and the Elephants says:

      I beg to disagree, to phrase it very, very politely and diplomatically.
      It is not “Why are the 99.99% of law-abiding firearms owners being demonized and blamed for the actions of a minuscule minority that is causing problems?”
      Most of the problems are caused by the actions of non-law-abiding firearms owners. No (emphasis on NO) law abiding firearms owner is causing any problem for anyone.
      Don’t let the Bloomies (just because he is the press does not mean his word is the news, research late 19th century and early 20th century Press history, because it is repeating itself a century later) and the anti 2A shape your thoughts.

      1. avatar Hannibal and the Elephants says:

        All, not Most.
        “My Kingdom for an Edit Button!” H. and the E.

    2. avatar Dan W says:

      Because law abiding gun owners are peaceful. Predators don’t attack the strong. Going after criminals is dangerous, going after Joe six-pack is easy.

  15. avatar anarchyst says:

    Quite often, firearms owners are their own worst enemies.

    The duck hunters don’t like the AR-15 “black rifles” so they see no problem if attempts are made to ban them.

    The traditional rifle owners don’t like machine guns, so they have no problem with them being legislated out of existence.

    Some pistol owners see nothing wrong with certain long guns being outlawed just as some rifle owners would have no problem seeing pistols banned.

    You see, anti-gunners want them all. They will chip away a little at a time until their goal of civilian disarmament is complete.

    They have an excuse for banning every firearm.

    –Scoped bolt-action rifles are defined by anti-gunners as “sniper rifles” because they are “too accurate”.

    –Magazine-fed weapons are suspect because of high (actually normal) magazine capacity.

    –Handguns are suspect because they are “easily concealable”.

    The gun grabbers want them all and have made (flimsy and suspect) excuses for banning every type of firearm. They don’t care how long it takes. and will use incrementalism to their advantage.

    Friends, ALL firearms advocates must “hang together” and realize that an assault on ANY means of firearms ownership and self-defense is an assault on ALL forms of firearms ownership and self-defense.

    There is absolutely NO ROOM for complacency among ANY Second Amendment supporters. An attack on one is an attack on ALL…

    ALL firearms laws are unconstitutional on their face.

    Imagine the hue and cry if “reasonable” restrictions were placed on First Amendment activities, especially with the “mainstream media”.

    The Second Amendment is clear–what part of “shall not be infringed” do politicians and the media not understand…of course, they understand full well…it’s part of their communist agenda…

    Even the NRA bears responsibility for capitulation on matters concerning firearms.

    The NRA failed when it allowed the National Firearms Act of 1934 to stand without offering opposition, the 1968 Gun Control Act, the NICS “instant check” system, the “no new machine gun for civilians” ban in 1986, the so-called “assault weapons” ban in 1994, and other infringements of the Second Amendment.

    Let’s face it. What better way to increase membership than to “allow” infringements to be enacted and then push for a new membership drive. Yes, the NRA has done good, but its spirit of “compromise” will only lead to one thing…confiscation.

    1. avatar BoG 2.0 says:

      “Friends, ALL firearms advocates must “hang together” .

      Nope. I HATE those self-serving, high and mighty Puckle gun owners and don’t get me started on those fracking Giradoni owning jerks and screw the punt gun a$$holes as well. Frack ’em. Frack ’em all.

    2. avatar DesertDave says:

      Actually, and lets be honest here, anyone gun owner or not, who has no foundation for their thoughts in history and the constitution are ignorant. There is rampant ignorance in this country because the school system has been taken over by the libs, socialists and commies. The states are not running control on this situation and let all kinds of bravo sierra to be taught in our schools. This produces a population that has at least 50% or more comprised of useful idiots that are easily controlled by the media. Most of the hunters that I know fall into this category to some degree or another, because they do not know what history has to teach us about keeping our hard won Freedom and Liberty.

  16. avatar CCDWGUY says:

    I know this is unrelated but I have decided on my own personal protest to the NRA. I am now responding to every mailer I get from the NRA by writing on their response for funds with the following note. “Get rid of Wayne”. It does not cost anything except for the NRA and expresses my opinion.
    I’m not opposed to the NRA, just that I believe Wayne needs to go. Do the same with the every day mailers you get from the NRA.

    1. avatar enuf says:

      Same here. In fact I just dug thru a pile of ignored junk mail over the weekend. Pulled all the NRA mailings and used a red Sharpie to make my message clear.

      NOT ONE $ MORE UNTIL WAYNE IS FIRED!!!

      Then I signed my name. Got about a dozen going in the mail tomorrow.

      Which brings up another point. I have never at any time ever donated one single cent to a mailed plea for donations. not from anyone. The NRA sure has wasted a lot of money burying me in spam snail mail over these many Wayne Years!

  17. avatar enuf says:

    About that chart on the fall in violent crime, it needs another line on it. That would be the enormous increase in the number of guns in the USA over the same time period. That’s the meat of the thing, violent crime falling and gun ownership rising.

    Coincidence does not equal Causation. Violence falling as guns owned by the public increased does not mean that guns are the cause of violence falling.

    Never the less, if the anti-gun side is preaching that guns cause violence then why in the hell did more guns fail to do so? If guns cause violence, and we roughly doubled the number of guns, should there not be a new Waste Management Truck rolling down city streets scooping up all them dead, shot to pieces bodies?

    Yeah, that’d be a good chart. Violence falling as guns owned rises.

    1. avatar Kendahl says:

      Correlation does not prove causation but, without correlation, there is no causation.

  18. avatar Red in CO says:

    These morons operate on emotion and have no desire to be educated. So just hit em with this: “anti gun equals pro rape”. And when they inevitably respond by claiming that a rapist will just take her gun you can say, “wow, you have a remarkably low opinion of women. How does it feel to be a misogynist?” And then walk away while their heads explode

    1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

      Actually used this one once, I remember some hysterical screeching about privilege and toxic something or another and I realized some people require reality to repeatedly knock to be open to alternative thoughts. Alcohol and immature trolling may have been involved.

  19. avatar Timothy Toroian says:

    Thes emotional people should never be in power, they’d panic at the wrong time and get us all in trouble. Or cower in front of somebody like Putin. And tell them if they get even a part of the irrational way we will campaign against the 4 th through 8 th amendments for without them many lives could be saved and no mercy for drunk drivers who kill people.

  20. avatar Robert Arctor says:

    The Backfire Effect: The tendency of some people to resist accepting evidence that conflicts with their beliefs. The effect is demonstrated when people presented with that conflicting information become even more convinced of their original beliefs rather than questioning them.

    1. avatar TonyL says:

      Mark Twain said something like ‘It’s easier to fool people than it is to convince them they’ve been fooled’. Seems very true.

  21. avatar Merle 0 says:

    I disagree. When left wing family members get into politics I go head long, directly into the confrontation, and I don’t let up until they do. But I never start it. They’ve come to realize I am the furthest thing from a liberal and never will be one. They also know I won’t stand there and allow them insult my country, president, history, or my rights without a fight. So they’ve learned “not to get me started”, and I like it that way. When I was younger I used to be polite and just change the subject but I got tired of feeling like I had to hold my tongue. No person will stand in front of me and bash my beliefs to my face without a confrontation, wether it’s family or stranger. One thing I’ve come to notice is liberals in real life are for more timid in real life and typically back down and get quiet after a few minuets of arguing.

    1. avatar Napresto says:

      “I won’t stand there and allow them insult my country, president, history, or my rights without a fight.”

      Country, history, and rights, I’m with you. But I believe it’s my duty as a red-blooded, patriotic American to insult and ridicule politicians whenever opportunity presents, irrespective of party (even, as sometimes happens, when I actually vote for them). These people have no right to tell me or anyone else how to live; scorn, derision, and mockery are important tools for ensuring that they don’t start to think otherwise.

      1. avatar Merle 0 says:

        Fair point.

  22. avatar Jerry says:

    Stand up for our rights or become slaves to likes of soros obama Bloomberg you get the picture molon labe

  23. avatar WI Patriot says:

    You cannot rationalize with the irrational…

  24. avatar Ing says:

    When rational arguments about guns are utterly useless… So that would be pretty much always.

  25. avatar Hans says:

    I hope Ms Blairhead attended the funeral of her fellow
    nine Mormons murdered with firearms: or perhaps she
    was to busy purchasing life insurance for the deceased.

    1. avatar Prndll says:

      I wonder what this story would have been if it were decapitation with a cutlass.

  26. avatar Chris Morton says:

    I’ve got life insurance through my job. The policy isn’t printed on a trauma plate.

    Anti-gun cultists are as a general rule:
    * racist
    * anti-Semitic
    * misogynistic
    * homophobic
    * pathologically dishonest
    * pathetically ignorant

    And above all else STUPID.

    1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

      Would have gone with envious but end results do tend to support stupid.

    2. avatar TonyL says:

      Chris, I’m going to disagree with your post. The leftist agenda is none of those things. And anti-Semitic? Maybe you’ve missed that many of the biggest and most influential anti 2nd Amendment voices are also Jewish?

      1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

        Not like there is any history of “it couldn’t happen here” that gets ignored ever….. or is paid attention to and applied fanatically.

      2. avatar Chris Morton says:

        I’m Black.

        I’ve found that the fastest way for me to be called “n****r” is to refuse the ORDERS of a White anti-gunner to support racially invidious gun controls.

        I was once in a Lakewood, Ohio McDonald’s. As usual, I was wearing an NRA ballcap and carrying several gun magazines. An elderly cleaner began berating me for my cap and declared that the NRA should be “banned”. When I noted that the last time organizations started getting banned, we somehow misplaced 6,000,000 Jews. His reply? He “wasn’t so sure that was a BAD thing”.

        Scratch an anti-gunner, find a Klansman… or a Nazi.

        1. avatar TonyL says:

          Chris, I’m not downplaying your personal experience, but here’s the facts of the left which is truing to eliminate public gun ownership. This left is largely anti white(so yes racist), especially anti white male. Not misogynistic. This left is largely Jewish, many of the most wealthy and most influential left voices are Jewish. Not anti Semitic. This left is so pro LGBTQA, and it uses this position to attack the rights of the heterosexual community. Not homophobic. Agree on dishonest, ignorant not so much….it is our ignorance they are counting on as they remove what’s left of our Rights one piece at a time.

  27. avatar TonyL says:

    Today’s policies and agendas have nothing to do with rational thinking, and everything to do with further narrowing and restricting what’s left of our freedoms. Until you see this big picture, nothing will make sense. Once you really grasp it, everything makes sense.

  28. avatar "keep yur beaks off my dead guy" possum says:

    You are right, I do not need a gunm, now hold out your hand and I will give it to you. ,,Ohhhh Look, A meat cleaver, how’d that get in here

  29. avatar Pete says:

    Well, I’m sold!
    I will probably take out life insurance policies on the whole family, including the cat.

  30. avatar Keyword Spam says:

    You cannot reason with someone who is being unreasonable. End of story. Like arguing with antivaxxers and flat-earth conspiracy nuts, these people are not operating on the same rules of logic as you and I.

  31. avatar Cory says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3qkf3bajd4
    Long video but Bezmenov explains the demoralization process. For many people, they unfortunately cross a point where they can no longer be reasoned with.
    The very same people that orchestrated this brainwashing during bolshevik/soviet Russia are in control of our media.

  32. avatar GBWCI says:

    Everyone at one time or another has stated “That is stupidest damn thing I’ve ever heard.” This is it for me. Bar none. It’s actually worth framing and hanging on a wall, such that when I need a laugh I can just look at it and it will deliver. Gabrielle Blair, Number one with a bullet on the “Stupidest Bitch on the Planet” chart. And she’s a mom? She should head up “Mom’s Against Intelligence.”

  33. avatar anonymous4goodreason says:

    Been thinking about this for a while and trying to talk wife into starting a group called:

    Moms Demand
    (Semi-Auto)
    Action

    Or maybe Full-Auto?

    1. avatar James Campbell says:

      Moms Demand Action sounds like a low budget porno from the ’70s.

  34. avatar Sam Hill says:

    Here’s my deal. I won’t make you carry a gun, if, you don’t make me not carry a gun.

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