Walgreens, CVS, Others Also ‘Ask’ Customers Not to Open Carry – Are Open Carriers to Blame?

Image courtesy of Walgreens.

In a single-sentence statement Thursday, pharmacy giant Walgreens joined Walmart, Kroger, CVS and others in asking customers not to open carry in their stores.

Walgreens Statement Regarding Open Carry in Our Stores
05 September 2019

We are joining other retailers in asking our customers to no longer openly carry firearms into our stores other than authorized law enforcement officials.

Obviously, asking customers is not the same as forbidding it. At the same time, anyone open-carrying in a Walgreens will probably be asked to either conceal their Roscoe or take it out to the car. That would no doubt go double for anyone slinging a long gun or a braced AR pistol that the average Joe/Jane would call a long gun.

Is this sudden and very public change by prominent big chains a direct result of open carry “activists” doing “Second Amendment audits?”

I’m talking about the boneheads who open carry their long guns in public places.  These imprudent people say their purpose is to test police knowledge of the law and acclimate everyday people to seeing other folks carrying firearms out in public.  In reality, they freak out Suzie Soccermom and their soy latte-drinking spouses.  They scare children.  And they alienate the general public from gun rights and gun owners alike.

For example: An “auditor” in Edmond, Oklahoma scared some families while open carrying his 9mm “pistol” in a park there.  Of course, concerned folks with their kids called 9-1-1 and guess who responded….

Courtesy NewsNowOKC and YouTube

The screen grab above is the backup. Below is the first first responder.

Courtesy NewsNowOKC and YouTube

Here’s the video from that incident.

 

Videos like these are all over YouTube. And these folks don’t always do their “audits”  in public parks.

Others have garnered mainstream media coverage of their antics. And more often than not, they aren’t doing gun owners any favors.

From the Kansas City Star:

The sun had long set when the two men trudged up to the justice center in Shawnee and peered inside. They pulled open the door and entered the modern brick building that houses the police department and city offices, filming the scene with their cellphones.

No one approached them as they walked around, filming various items in the building. Then Patrick Roth turned the camera on his cohort, Tim Harper, who was wearing an orange shirt and a “Make America Great Again” ball cap and toted a gun in a holster on his right hip.

“Guys, he’s got four mags,” Roth said on the video he later posted on his YouTube channel, News Now Patrick, zooming in on the magazines that hold extra rounds of ammunition. “We’re in a police department. He’s open carrying.”

“Seventy-six rounds,” Harper said of his magazine capacity.

The two continued filming in the building for nearly 4 minutes before heading to the adjacent fire station to shoot more video.

And another from the Enid News & Eagle:

Garfield County was brought into the spotlight this week after video of an incident at the Garfield County Court House between Garfield County Sheriff’s Office officials and a “First Amendment auditor” gained widespread attention online.

The sheriff’s office issued a public statement on its Facebook page Thursday.

“The incident began as a call of a suspicious person filming courthouse employees counting large quantities of money. Those employees, fearing for their safety and unsure of this person’s intentions, called courthouse security deputies,” part of the posts reads. “We would also like to assure the public that the issue has been addressed, and extra training will be conducted to ensure any similar situations will come to different conclusions. We are not perfect, but it is always our first goal to serve and protect the public.”

In the video posted Nov. 13 on the YouTube channel “News Now Patrick,” self-described First Amendment auditor Patrick Roth filmed the courthouse, displays, signs and courthouse employees on the first floor before going to the second floor where deputies were.

And from KWCH:

Videos of confrontations with public officials making their way to the internet is nothing new, but a newer trend in videos called “First Amendment audits” has some concerned and others just annoyed.

“Don’t touch the camera,” Patrick Roth can be heard saying from behind the camera. In the video, he and a friend, are visiting and videotaping a nuclear facility in Kansas City, Missouri. A security officer asks Roth why he and his friend are there and a confrontation ensues. It all unfolds in what’s called a “First Amendment Audit.” One of many Roth has posted on his YouTube channel, News Now Patrick.

More recently, there was gentleman who walked into a Springfield, Missouri Walmart with a slung braced pistol and a handgun less than a week after the El Paso massacre.

From right here at TTAG:

A man reportedly pulled up to a Walmart Neighborhood Market store in Springfield, Missouri, this afternoon, put on what appears to be load bearing equipment, armed himself with what looks like an AR pistol and walked into the store.

According to ky3.com, he then . . .

…began pushing [a shopping cart] around the store. Police say the man was recording himself walking through the store via a cell phone.

The store manager at the Neighborhood Market pulled a fire alarm, urging people to escape the store.

Police say the man then made his way out an emergency exit where a firefighter held the man at gunpoint. At that moment Springfield Police arrived on scene and detained the man.

That stunt went above and beyond the call of brains.  It made international news.  Even Drudge had it as a headline for hours.  Would any reasonable and prudent person think that carrying a long-gun in a Walmart a week after a mass murder spree at another Walmart by someone similarly attired and armed be a wise and prudent idea?

armed man springfield walmart

Courtesy ky3.com

Of course, every state has different laws relating to open (and concealed) carry (Missouri is a constitutional carry state).

But the bottom line: open carry activists toting long guns (or guns that look like long guns) around in public spaces don’t do gun owners or gun rights any favors.  These misguided folks may think they are advancing the cause of gun rights, but they do not.  To the contrary, their activism has no doubt contributed to these decisions by big companies to ban open carry in their stores.

Nice job, fellas.

comments

  1. avatar Jay in Florida says:

    Open carriers aren’t to blame but they sure don’t help the cause.
    These large stores are just giving in to the “Feels Safer” crowd. Although it actually has the opposite effect.
    There is no open carry in Florida but I just came back from Wally World 10 minutes ago.
    I went in with my usual supplement of a nice dose of 18 9mm pills should something happen my way.

    1. avatar Thixotropic says:

      I have open carried one of my custom M1911’s MANY times in Walmart and Kroger.

      No one even seems to notice as the weapons are dark and so is my Black Elephant Ear rig.

      I generally agree that open carry may frighten people and certainly open carry of a long gun, especially an AR variant may cause panic. I would be VERY uncomfortable if I saw a man entering a Walmart with an AR slung across his chest, and I am a dedicated, trained and well practiced concealed carrier.

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        “I would be VERY uncomfortable if I saw a man entering a Walmart with an AR slung across his chest, and I am a dedicated, trained and well practiced concealed carrier.”

        Exactly, reasonable people do not expect to see folks dressed up like mercenaries wandering the isles of their local Walmart caring A.R. 15’s, it makes no sense and therefore is very troubling.

        Even reasonable POTG find the extreme open carry practice disconcerting, imagine how Joe public feels when he sees this crazy behavior.

        The gun nuts with their worship of weapons and fetishizing of firearms are going to cause us to lose rights for no good reason other than they are satisfying their ego need to outrage good people.

        If good POTG don’t manage to rein in the Kmart commando extremists within their ranks, John Q Public will demand the authorities do it.

        1. avatar Hank says:

          People used to be very uncomfortable with openly gay men in public. Now you can’t throw a rock without hitting one. That happened because the gays went and did tons of openly gay activism in public.

        2. avatar John Boch says:

          Well said.

        3. avatar Garrison Hall says:

          Constitutionally sanctioned carrying of weapons works best in an environment based on civility. Politicization takes routine situations and infuses them with political significance. When this happens the civility of mutual understanding and respect that allows routine, everyday taken-for-granted behavior to take place gets transformed into something else entirely. Deliberately parading around a Walmart in a costume while carrying a long gun isn’t the same as exiting your truck outside a gun-store while carrying the same long gun.
          Context is important. If you do the former other people don’t don’t decode your actions as normal. If you do the latter other people are more likely to decode your actions as normal.

        4. avatar arc says:

          You can’t ‘lose’ rights, only surrender them.

        5. avatar 380acp says:

          Hank you can’t be serious with that gay man bullshit argument. No one was aiming a gay man at people mowing them down by the dozens. They do with guns. Your comparison is so far beyond apples and oranges it’s not even in the same fucking universe

          99% of these people carrying openly are there to get a rise out of law enforcement and out of anti-gun citizens. They’re doing it because they can do it and get away with it. If it was just about fucking education then they would be educating people instead of scaring the shit out of them first

        6. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

          Actually it was about comfort and choice. Even though I mostly CC now it is still OWB with my shirt over it. IWB hurts and leaves the holster and gun imprinted on my side like a fossil in bedrock.

          It only became political and educational when cops began hassling us.

          Again I am talking about OC of an ordinary handgun.

        7. avatar Someone says:

          People are uncomfortable with open carry by anyone not wearing state issued costume as a result of focused brainwashing campaign.

        8. avatar Someone says:

          @9mm Short
          Are you also scared shitless by people driving around in those huge trucks? They are being used to mow down dozens of people too!

          What about guys with jerry cans? Do you call 911 everytime you see some poor schmuck who run out of gas? Those cans of gasoline have been used to bake dozens of people to death!
          But this is different, because guns!

          Guns, even long guns, are used millions of times every day for perfectly lawful purposes. Why should I get vapors at sight of an item just because someone somewhere recently misused similar item to murder bunch of strangers?

          Until I see a person pouring the gasoline around a building or aiming the gun at someone I don’t intend to panic.

      2. avatar John in AK says:

        There is a difference between exercising a right and shoving that right into the face of the unwilling.

        To me, an open carrier (particularly one doing so immediately after a mass shooting in a public venue such as a store) is rightfully exercising a right–but by shoving it into the faces of the public, who for the moment have heightened anxieties, and heightened awareness. Sure, it is a right–but is it wise? The answer is, ‘No.’

        It is equally a right for flamboyantly gay men to parade about, apparently, in ostrich feather boas, pink tutus, sequined bras, leather chaps without bottoms, and other blatant paraphernalia. Is it ‘right’? Does it make you feel comfortable, happy, at ease–or does it make you cringe and wonder what AILS those people? Does it make you accepting, or does it alienate you?

        In today’s world, the blatant open carrier is about as welcome when it comes to exercising rights when it may not be exactly ‘right’ to do so.

        We all must remember that most non-gun people are sheep, easily frightened, easily panicked, but sheep with long memories who, when asked to vote on such subjects as ‘commonsensegunsafetycontrol-banassaultweapons-universalbackgroundchecks-nounder21-onepurchasepermonth-blackisevil-redflaglaws,’ they ARE going to remember the steely-eyed, bald-headed, neck-bearded guy with the 5.11s and field boots they saw open-carrying the ubiquitous, and ostentatious, shiny 1911 in the cold-cuts section.

        Of course, they never notice the fellow carrying concealed. That means they were not frightened, or otherwise nonplused, having never known that there was an evil gun present at all.

        Non-gun people may be sheep, easily frightened and panicked, but they are sheep with long memories and the power of the vote. Frighten them and panic them often enough, and they are going to run you over in their haste to, first, get away and, later, to vote against all that you hold dear to make themselves feel ‘safe’ again.

        But, you do you.

        1. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

          That is not an indictment of open carry. It is an indictment of government and voting.

        2. avatar Dave G. says:

          @John in AK:
          Another goddamn generalization. Come on guys. NOT ALL NON-GUN PEOPLE ARE SHEEP. I actually know people who don’t like guns, but AREN’T sheep and can think for themselves. I just don’t happen to, be a non-gun person, myself.

          I have a Michigan CPL and have been carrying concealed for several years, but I think that open carry of AR-15s and such at Walmart’s (or whatever) is absolutely STUPID.

      3. avatar Mike H in WA says:

        “I’ve open carried my 1911 many times…”

        And that’s the rub of it… there is a world of difference between carrying a defensive handgun on your hip while dressed (I’m sure) like a somewhat normal person going about your business, and walking into Wally World with an AR/AK in full tacticool garb, or otherwise trying to attract attention to yourself. That so many other open carriers seem to fail to grasp the difference is partially what’s causing the backlash.

    2. avatar Sian says:

      No spare mag? C’mon Jay.

    3. avatar frank speak says:

      that’s called “pushing the envelope”……

  2. avatar Nelson says:

    Of course, YOU would made your standard fare collectivist rationale. Punish all for a few?

    While obviously tactically not sound, open carry has always been a political statement, and remind the peon mundanes, that it is in their pre-constitutional natural right of self-defense to exercise their said defensive rights anyway they please.

    Their feeeeeeeeeeelz is irrelevant.

    Blaming open carriers, for already ANTI-gun coporatist terrorist cunts is literally no different ‘logical’ premise behind “she deserved to get raped, for what she wore.”

    Talk about sophistic nonsense.

    1. avatar MtnDewey says:

      it has always been that way, the needs of the few are outweighing the needs of the many, we as law-abiding gun owners; protectors of the Republic are screwed. The majority (us), have been shut down by the minority (them), anti-gunners are louder and are using death to prove a point. more attention needs to be on the side of saves by gun owners, statistics from UCR/FBI. The NRA needs to pull their heads out of htier asses and realize they are harming us as well.

    2. avatar MarkPA says:

      Few commentators seriously consider the consequences of open carry to the cause of carry in public places. To be sure, some commentators do assert that the practice of O-C “normalizes” carry in the public mind. Is this true? Or, does it develop prejudice against any sort of carry? I’m not convinced one way or the other (yet).

      IF – and to the EXTENT – that any practitioner of O-C enrages heretofore open-minded voters, the impact is NOT NORMALIZATION! It is, instead, a source of encouragement to legislatures to pass laws regulating carry of any sort. More laws encouraging property owners to erect signs forbidding carry; whether O-C or C-C. More laws making it a misdemeanor for any mere civilian to carry in a place displaying prescribed signage. Is that what we want? More laws regulating carry in public places; businesses?

      I live in PA where O-C (without a license) is legal everywhere except Philadelphia. There are very nearly ZERO signs prohibiting carry where I travel. I think I like this; no one is riled-up about carry because everybody carries concealed. Every few years the percentage of Pennsylvanians with carry permits rises another percentage point. In another 10 – 20 years the hoplophobes in PA will gradually become aware that 1/4 to 1/3 of the people milling about in public places are packing heat; and have been doing so for years. THAT will have NORMALIZED C-C.

      Maybe O-C folks would like to accelerate their idea of “normalization”. Get lots of hoplophobes in a tizzy so the legislature passes carry regulation. More signs. Force-of-law of signs. Maybe that will screw the pooch for carry: C-C and O-C. Is there a better way to normalize O-C?

      How about if an O-C movement started in rural areas and small towns where everybody pretty much knows everyone else. Then, it gradually spreads to neighboring towns and small cities. People from town B visiting town A see O-C practiced. Then, when they return to their hometown B they wouldn’t be particularly surprised so see someone O-C in town B. And so on to towns C, D and E.

      Probably not as much fun as youngsters dressed in camo carrying long guns, plate carriers and lots of standard-sized magazines. All for the cause of raising consciousness in the state capital you know.

      1. avatar LifeSavor says:

        Mark,

        Well-reasoned, well-stated.

        I fully support everyone’s right to open carry, but I choose concealed (well, sort of concealed; lots of folk recognize a Sneaky Pete for what it is) because it is how I am most comfortable. If I OC’d, I likely be so self-conscious that the folk around me would pick up on it and, then, they would get nervous.

        Maybe that is a personality flaw (I have more than a few), but it works for me.

        Here in the Lehigh Valley, I see almost no OC’ers but in other posts, Crimson Pirate says there are many. I am in Allentown; that may be the difference.

        1. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

          I started out in Allentown. There are many OCers who are/were members of PAFOA there. I will use their screen names so I don’t dox anyone accidently. Ungawa OCed around the Lehigh Valley until his death. Viper, who started out OCing in Philly, moved to the Lehigh Valley some time back. General Geoff was there when I was 11 years ago and still is AFAIK. Though we both OCed all over and both lived off Emmaus Ave and both shopped in that Giant, we never ran into each other. Pennsyplinker was out by the Walmart out Hamilton BLVD. What was that, McKungie? There were plenty of others who weren’t as vocal or weren’t on PAFOA. OCDO had a fair PA contingent with a number in Allentown. We even had our own forum for awhile, PAOC, that has since shut down.

          I got away from OC after a major medical event, and just never really went back to it full time, though I do it periodically now.

      2. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

        We did all that here in PA 11 effing years ago. Allentown and APD was sued. Philly and the PPD was sued. The Lebanon County Sheriff was sued for improperly revoking Meleanie Hain’s license to carry for OCing her handgun. We got education on OC added to the annual act 180 MPOETC training all law enforcement has to undergo. We got OC training added to the initial Act 120 training of new police officers twice. We got OC training of PPD at roll call every shift for several weeks at least twice. Many of us OCed our handguns a lot, and many still do. Normal handgun OC is no big deal in PA.

        Rifle OC in stores, businesses, and restaurants is virtually unheard of. There have been several preplanned rifle OC events that went off without a hitch.

        By and large no one cares about an OCed handgun in PA, unless an AR or AK pistol.

        If we do not OC eventually someone will bring up that there are a lot of armed people out there and no one knows it. Then they will go after CC.

        1. avatar LifeSavor says:

          Always enjoy reading your words, Crimson!

          I hope you are well!

        2. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

          Thank you. I usually don’t check the box to be notified of comments, just because I would get so much email about new comments that i could not keep up with it. I’m glad I did this time.

          Are you guys aware of the bruhaha going on 9/24 and 9/25 in Harrisburg? Senate hearings on mental health 9/24 and gun legislation 9/25. Moms that need more anal action is going to be trying to pack the hearing rooms and we are going to try to beat them to the punch. Details and planning at PAFOA.org in the Pennsylvania law section.

          http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=350906

          Be there or be square 😉

          Here is flyer we are trying to distribute about it

          https://drive.google.com/file/d/12ohpRxA4blMpFO1MsWcMJivtrWag4RXD/view

      3. avatar John Boch says:

        Exactly.

    3. avatar Christopher Careillo says:

      9th Circuit already ruled Open Carry as a Constitutional right, and they are often regarded as very anti-gun.

      If Open Carry is successful as a movement, it will be a major shift in our favor.

      Is it any wonder Open Carry is attacjed by not only anti-gun folks, but supposedly pro gun people as well.

      1800’s Americans Openly Carried, and the world did not end. 💥🔫👈😎👉💥🔥💯☕🇺🇸

      1. avatar Mark N. says:

        The Ninth most certainly has NOT held that there is a right to open carry–it just backed itself into a corner when it declared that there is no right under the 2A to a CCW. Therefore, the logic goes, IF there is a right to carry in public (bear arms) THEN the right MUST be open carry since concealed carry is not a right. That this makes perfect logical sense doesn’t mean that the Court has actually issued a decision saying this as of yet, and it has not. Consequently, open carry is still illegal in California in any urban (“incorporated”) city or town. There are SEVERAL cases pending right now in which this specific issue is directly presented, and at least one or more have been argued and submitted for determination a year and a half ago. The Ninth is holding these cases without a decision until after NYRPA v. NYC is decided. Because the LAST thing it wants to do is allow people to walk around carrying guns on their hips, but it has to find a way to do this. In other words, it has to find a way to gut the 2A without it seeming that they are gutting the 2A. I suspect that when push comes to shove, it will somehow conclude that yes there is a right, but it is subject to “reasonable restrictions in the interest of public safety,” i.e., the status quo where you can carry in the forests and deserts, but nowhere else. Either way, the first case it decides will end up in the Supreme Court, and I believe is will be nearly impossible for SCOTUS to deny review.

  3. avatar D Y says:

    Homeless people shooting up heroin and defecating on the street is not a shocking event anymore to those living with it, because it’s been normalized.

    We can argue whether or not it’s prudent to open carry, but the simply fact is, the more people see of something, the less they care. Being scared at the sight of a firearm is NOT a normal reaction, regardless of what we have been taught the last ~40 years. because for the previous 500 or so years, it would have been an abnormal reaction.

    No one is turning anti gun because they see them. They are already anti gun, or head that way when another nut job kills 15 innocents.

    I fail to see what difference it makes if they ban the guns. You say the people are boneheads for trying it, the result of being “boneheaded” is exactly what you want…no open carry. Is it open carry in public when my neighbor sees my gun as I move it to the car? When a hiker sees me hunting? A distinction must be made about private companies being able to make the same decisions on *their* property, that I am allowed to make on mine. Not on actual public property.

    1. avatar MarkPA says:

      Here is the problem.

      I C-C all the time when in PA. I have some errands to run at stores A, B, and C. I enjoy the fact that no one cares about carry where I live so no stores have GFZ signs. So, I don’t worry about having to disarm on my daily errand runs.

      Getting people riled-up about O-C is apt to persuade store B to display GFZ signs. You don’t care because store B isn’t in your stomping ground. You are happy that people are O-C’ing.

      But I am not happy because store B starts to display GFZ signs. That means I have to choose between leaving my gun at home when I go on my errands to stores A, B and C. Or, I have to dis-arm before entering store B and re-arm before going on to store C. Again, you don’t care; you are happy that people are O-C’ing.

      But, eventually, every third store in my state will have a GFZ sign. A few PotG with a cause to promote will strut around the town square with their O-C rigs. The rest of us C-C practitioners will be leaving our guns at home or dis-arming/re-arming and leaving our guns in cars.

      Three guys are enjoying their rights to O-C. Thirty thousand C-C practitioners stop carrying. And, that moves the cause forward? It moves it forward when the hoplophobes realize that they have traded 3 O-Cs in the state for 30,000 C-Cs NO LONGER carrying in the state.

      One step forward, 30,000 steps back.

      1. avatar Eric in Oregon says:

        As long as we’re using completely made-up numbers, actually the 3 OCers inspired 3000 gun people to carry regularly while none of the CCers were affected.

        The stores will post GFZ signs or not eventually in any case. It’s not about any particular reason or anything that makes sense, just about the feelz.

      2. avatar LifeSavor says:

        MarkPA,

        Again, spot-on.

        OC’ers are not going to provoke anti-gun legislation but store owners, managers of public places are always going to be sensitive about customer reactions. Unfortunately, it will be the frightened Mom, of the militant leftist who will alarm the store owner. Not too many of us are walking up to the proprietor to refuse compliments about not banning OC.

        So the fearful and loud frighten the store owners into thinking they should ban OC. After all, the gun crowd will still show up with CC, and the frightened loud people will also keep shopping there.

        1. avatar Mark N. says:

          In 1968, Governor Reagan signed a bill that banned the open carry of LOADED firearms. Guns pretty much disappeared after that. But in 2011 or 2012, pro-carry groups began organizing lo-w key events where a few people would show up at the Boardwalk or Starbucks with their perfectly legal unloaded handguns on their hips. The soccer moms FREAKED, and almost every single time, someone would make a man with gun” report to 911. Even when dispatchers knew that this was perfectly legal, they would send in the troops–who would arrive en masse with guns drawn and make every effort to harass the carriers in order to dissuade them from carrying. It is lucky that no one got shot. BECAUSE of all this commotion—and a well connected soccer mom, within just a few months a bill was passed banning the open carry of handguns, loaded or unloaded, in all incorporated areas of the entire state of California. /when there was a smattering of discussion of open carrying unloaded rifles, a bill was passed within the year to ban that too.

      3. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

        What I have been reading in online gun forums for well over a decade is that CCers don’t GAF and will go on CCing regardless of signs, at least in PA. OCers, of course, will have to stop if someplace is posted as people will see their gun if they ignore the sign. CC here at a place that was merely posted and not prohibited by law would be very unlikely to result in anything more than being requested to leave or put your gun in your car, and if your CC was not noticed nothing would happen at all.

      4. avatar Tom in PA says:

        This is exactly the concern. One thing I’ve noticed about some choosing to OC a pistol is their preference for garbage holsters with no retention features, and I doubt a large percentage have trained in retention techniques. Criminals don’t see that as a deterrent but as an opportunity to take your gun, and it happens. Some of those carrying long arms in an effort to normalize OC often do so in an aggressive fashion. The low ready or similar position is aggressive by nature and thats exactly how it registers with those unfamiliar with arms. These behaviors set us back.

  4. avatar MtnDewey says:

    well I have to be honest, with all the crap gong on , you people carrying long guns openly are just making it worse…can you? yes, should you? no, absolutely not. The hysteria and attention this is bringing to the gun crowd is negative. reinforcing the rhetoric the anti-gunners are spouting. Want to open carry? carry you EDC pistol, in a nice comfortable, non tactical looking rig. I get the point you are trying to make. go to your state capitol and protest, this shit though is stupidity.

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      If you want to lug around a long gun, I might recommend that you do so with the rifle in a soft case with a shoulder strap. I suspect it will reduce the angst. those of you with guns on your hips? Go for it if you feel like. Out here in the far west, it caused great consternation, but we are a bit “unique” when it comes to guns.

      1. avatar Not Larry from Texas says:

        Plus Body Armor, Ammo, Water and Rucksack with 100 pounds weight and march 10 to 20 plus miles.

      2. avatar UpInArms says:

        Carrying the rifle in a soft case could be construed as concealed carry. Just sayin.

        Interesting experiment… carry a soft case stuffed with newspaper and see if anything interesting happens.

    2. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

      To be clear when I talk about OC, unless I specify otherwise, I am talking about an ordinary handgun in a holster.

  5. avatar former water walker says:

    Geez Boch there’s NO open carry in ILLinois but those who do it in other states are BONEHEADS?!? You lose any credibility when you make blanket statements like that. Don’t want the demanding mom’s twitterpatting…

    1. avatar John Boch says:

      It is what it is. They are not only boneheads, but they are very counter-productive to advancing gun rights among the undecideds in America.

      1. avatar WhiteDevil says:

        Our rights are not rights anymore. They are privileges, at this point. A right doesn’t require the attainment of a permit, nor the passing of an arbitrary background check to exercise it. It’s a sad day for TTAG when a prominent writer argues against a component of that right. So, you’re plan is, don’t exercise a right so that we don’t lose that right? Thats outrageous, to put it mildly. Maybe Rosa Parks should have just taken her ass to the back of the bus where everyone told her she belonged and us free men should just resign ourselves to our homes, where we belong, and not exercise our rights, because we’re gonna lose those rights anyways, simply for exercising them. You used to be able to walk around town with a firearm slung over your back and people wouldn’t give a shit. The fact that costumed state thugs with guns can threaten other people, simply for the fact that they have guns themselves, is atrocious. We have certainly moved backwards in terms of culture and society, when an agent of the state is praised or treated differently than a citizen for something they both do.

      2. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

        I think we need to differentiate between OC of a typical handgun, which I do believe normalizes carry for ordinary non gun people, and OC of a long gun (even a “pistol” version of a long gun) which may alarm more people, and OC of a long gun in the immediate aftermath of a mass shooting or series of mass shootings when people are on edge about such things.

        They are not all the same thing and just saying “OC” without differentiating them causes us to make an incorrect analysis.

      3. avatar Someone says:

        Couple of questions, John.

        What good is a right that you only have as long as you don’t exercise it?
        Since when do gun grabbers need us to give them reason for more regulations?
        Did some bonehead open carry too much here in Illinois and caused the open carry ban?

        1. avatar No One Special says:

          I haz a question too? What difference does it make if you are armed concealed or open as far as just being armed? I would much rather have a gun concealed all the time concealed instead of some of the time open. It’s all about picking and choosing those battles to win the war.

        2. avatar LazrBeam says:

          We can open carry here in Alabama but I prefer concealed for the simple reason that open carry is a great big billboard to a bad person to “shoot me first”. Not my kind of scenario.

  6. avatar Bitter says:

    I live in New Mexico and even though open carry is permitted I cannot legally do so because it’s illegal to open carry in any establishment that sells alcohol. ( just about any store in New Mexico sells alcohol)
    That’s why I have my permit to carry concealed. Even so the only time I ever open carry is on an occasional trip to the range or if I’m out in the wilderness camping or hunting.

    1. avatar Eric in Oregon says:

      “the only time I ever open carry is on an occasional trip to the range or if I’m out in the wilderness camping or hunting”

      This is where I land on it too. I’m not opposed to it on tactical or moral grounds the way some people are, it’s just not my thing.

  7. avatar Jon says:

    “Auditors” are to blame for the “audits” and “feel safers” are to blame for the “swatting”. Both parties are responsible for their own actions. Both contributed equally to whatever new laws, ordinances and policies are created and enforced. Without one or the other, these situations would not have happened. But since some groups of people are stupid, some other groups are easily frightened, politicians love to take advantage of both groups and the media loves to dramatize everything (which both groups of people gobble up), we have these situations.

    A gun is a tool, not an object that should be used to provoke an emotional reaction out of someone who is emotionally immature. Open carrying with the intent to provoke a reaction does nothing to “normalize” firearms. Firearms owners and advocates of self defense should not be engaging in the type of emotional provocation that is on the same level of the emotional infancy of the “feel safers”.

    If I open carry, I do so in a group, whether its my family or a large group of friends. When someone sees a person who is socially normal (they are surrounded by family or friends who are having a good time) with holstered firearm on his side, they don’t think twice about it and are not scared or intimidated.

  8. avatar SkyMan77 says:

    Fair enough… I don’t like to scare the horses anyways… Plus concealment is a good tactical advantage. I’d prefer my adversary not see me coming… Speed, surprise and violence of action gets you ahead of the curve… Carry on and God Bless!!!

  9. avatar -Peter says:

    Don’t do things that result in bad PR. Gun owners need to focus on changing hearts and minds.

    Tromping around a shopping mall or public playground in a plate carrier while open carrying will not help us out.

  10. avatar Mark N. says:

    My Rite Aid pharmacy has been robbed three times this year, every time by juveniles. I don’t know if they displayed firearms or not, but merely a show of force is enough to require employees to stand aside and let them take whatever they want, usually Oxy and cash. Last night when I went in, the young female pharmacist behind the counter was certain that one of the boys from the last robbery had come into the store and sat in the chairs opposite the window. She was certain she was about to be robbed again. She had no way of calling the security guard. She was terrified. (As an aside, after the second robbery, the store hired security., but allowed the contract to expire. The day after the guards left the store was robbed again.)

    If this is common around the country, maybe these pharmacies should encourage open carry.

    1. avatar Randy Jones says:

      Our local pizza hut has been robbed twice in five years. Door to Door, less than 500 feet for our small town police station. I carry there, usually concealed sometime not, but have only gotten positive comments from patrons and employees. Same for the local Kroger and a restaurant nearby.

  11. avatar Swarf says:

    Yes. Next question.

  12. avatar Juice says:

    Well, lets look at it this way. If there hadn’t been a mass shooting in a Walmart last month, would they still have started this new policy now? I highly doubt it. So to answer your borderline click-bait question: No, “open carriers” are not to blame. Although I do agree that patrolling your local grocery store with a long gun, especially in the “auditing” manner that you describe, does no favors to the rest of us. The fact that there’s not a distinction between a long gun and a holstered-yet-visible pistol in the term “open carry” is unfortunate.

    1. avatar Dude says:

      No open carriers are not to blame. Fools like this guy are. Would he have chosen to “audit” this location, at this point in time if there weren’t just a mass murder there?

      1. avatar Arc says:

        Auditing right after is one of the best times. Rights either are or aren’t, if they are dependent on events and conditions then where is such a list in the COTUS?

        No different than running emergency drills when everyone is tired, everything out of place, etc, rather than when everyone has a heads up at 100%.

        1. avatar Juice says:

          There’s simple math to it. One person slings his AR over his back and marches through the store, and 5 people who see him go through the trouble of complaining to management that it makes them uncomfortable. How long before corporate decides to shut that down? In Texas, all they have to do is post a 30.07 sign. And while there are tons of people who are trying to defend the RKBA in general, and to carry concealed in their state, the line for fighting to carry a rifle through Walmart is pretty damn short.

  13. avatar Randy Jones says:

    Yeah, I’d say a lot of the time open carry is no big deal (in states where it is allowed). But you’re talking a handgun. When you start slinging rifles over your shoulder, it may be legal but is it wise? You also need to consider where and what you look like. Me for instance, six foot three, hair down to my shoulders and beard. (Called my semi-retired look.) If I was in a button up shirt and clean jeans with my hair tied back, probably no complaints. But if I was in a tack vest, BDUs or Punisher t-shirt, with my hair flying it could be taken a bit differently.

    I have had people ask me about the side arm before and I have had people thank me for wearing it. Believe it or not a polite conservation has occurred every time. But I normally carry concealed and they don’t know its there. The truth is more non-gunners need to learn that 99% of the pro-gun people are not someone they need to worry about, but all they see in the news is the 1% we would try to stop. They know that there have been almost 200 killings in Chicago and almost 700 people wounded this year; but they don’t realize that so far this year there have been an estimated 1 to 1.5 million defensive gun usages. We need to find ways to be more active in the community. Something for the newspaper or news crews to pop on TV. Benson Gun Club mows elderly peoples yards or Market St. Gun Range raises 10,000 for Habitat for Humanity. Maybe a gun club throws a wild game dinner with proceeds going to a local charity, and then advertises at the dinnert that all game was taken with AR15s. When something like that happens, around the country, maybe the anti-gunners will begin not just to think we are all waiting to kill someone and the news crews will have to admit the AR is a sporting rifle, not an assault rifle.

    The dweeb who, less than a week after the Walmart shooting, decides to dress similar to the shooter and open carry an AR15. Acting stupidly and drawing attention by making a selfie video to confirm our Second Amendment rights would be honored, was technically legal but he picked a pretty poor time to push that envelope. Most of the 2A checkers are questionable; are they wanting their 5 minutes of YouTube fame by letting the “man” know his place? They are not really promoting our gun rights in a non-threatening way in the eyes of a non-gunner.

    My Dear ol’ Dad used to tell me, “Just because you can, don’t mean you should”. And at least partly because somebody didn’t consider the reaction of the non-gunners, wrong or right, it bites us all in the ass. He would have been better off setting up a table and passing out literature about the importance of gun rights. But he is only one of many who post these videos on line. Very frustrating for us pro-2A folks.

    Don’t forget to write you political representatives.

  14. avatar MMurcek says:

    If it walks like “look at meeeee!” and it squwaks like “look at meeeee!” well, you get the idea. As for the smarta$$ effort splain “what’s a pistol,” I’m not in LE but have friends and family who are. They have to spend a lot of time training to do all kinds of things besides attend to some “auditor’s” sidewalk commando version of pedantic crap.

    1. avatar WhiteDevil says:

      Yeah, they’re being stopped from extorting money from people traveling or just people, in general. I suppose you think it’s alright for a government agent to threaten citizens, simply because those citizens have a gun. As long as the government does it, I guess it’s okay, right? How dare those gun nuts exercise a right, without the approval of government.

  15. avatar Dude says:

    You don’t carry to get a reaction. You don’t intentionally gear up like a recent mass murderer in the same sort of store. This guy was just desperate for attention because he obviously has no life. He gives gun owners a bad name.

    These stores don’t want to scare off the customers. This fool basically forced Walmart to more or less say: Hey guys, don’t walk through the store carrying an AR please. It tends to freak people out, especially since a bunch of people were just murdered in here by a guy carrying a gun that looked like that.

    1. avatar Randy Jones says:

      Be honest, this wasn’t the only thing that Walmart jump. There was a shooting between two employees a while back and mostly it was concern from some activist group protesting outside the store running off business. But the dweeb didn’t help the situation. This crap may have pushed the San Fran board into declaring the NRA a domestic terroristic organization too. This little crap adds up.

  16. avatar jkmoa says:

    CVS’s Twitter asked customers, “…do not bring firearms into our stores”. No mention of carry method.

  17. avatar Mad Max says:

    I prefer op sec anyway and these companies didn’t ask anyone to not carry concealed.

    They just want the best of both worlds; the added benefit of armed citizens (to help stop bad guys) while not scaring their Sheeple cistomers away.

    I would tell them to go hire their own armed security but that isn’t likely in our best interests.

    1. avatar Dude says:

      “They just want the best of both worlds; the added benefit of armed citizens (to help stop bad guys) while not scaring their Sheeple cistomers away.”

      That’s exactly what this is about.

      1. avatar Mad Max says:

        Agreed.

        That’s why I said telling them to get their own armed security isn’t likely in our best interest.

  18. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    Yes that’s correct Mr. grocery store manager. I always carry a 50 BMG. It’s great exercise.

    Yes I know I could have carried my holstered pistol sidearm. But I chose a big long gun. Because I wanted to make a really big impression on you and your customers.

  19. avatar Jeff says:

    I have to agree with the author completely! We’re living in a time when, like it or not, the 2nd Amendment is in jeopardy! There’s a growing chorus of people who would like to see it repealed and the noise is getting louder! In fact, it might have already hit a tipping point since the public is not as favorable as they used to be. It’s time for those of us who claim to be Pro 2A to stop acting like a bunch of yahoos running around with scary looking rifles “just because we can!”

    Is it really that difficult to understand, right or wrong, that people are scared? Schools are holding lockdown drills and people are nervous going to places with large crowds. Now we can debate whether they have a reason to be scared, but that debate is meaningless. When someone who’s being bombarded with all the evils of “weapons of war” and then they see someone carrying one in a store – is it really that hard to understand why they become fearful?

    Look, as part of the “gun culture” I like knowing that there are others who are armed when I’m in church, a store, wherever. I enjoy shooting my AR15 so I’m not intimidated by it. HOWEVER, if I see someone I don’t know carrying one in public, I have to subconsciously/consciously question their motive for doing it, and try to figure out if their intention is innocent or otherwise because, as we can all agree, there are crazy people who have guns, and they’re not necessarily easy to identify. And that’s not a 2A issue, that’s a human issue!

    And when you I see the knucklehead in the video arguing with police about his RIGHT to scare the shit out of people: Although I agree with his rights, a part of me wanted see him get arrested for being an asshole because it makes all of us who care about the 2A look bad!!

    Look, the time is coming – and it will come – when a concerted effort will be made by the Left to repeal the 2nd. And when that happens, we’ll be relying on voters – like the ones we’re scaring now – to vote against repeal. It really is time for us to begin to act strategically and like adults rather than out of control children playing with power tools!

  20. avatar william says:

    Just because “we can” doesn’t mean “we have to.”

    1. avatar John Boch says:

      Or that we should…

      1. avatar Someone says:

        If we never do, it matters little that we could if we dared.

  21. avatar Bob in IN says:

    This is why Amazon is killing it.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      in many cases it is perceived as an “in your face” kind of thing…the likely outcome being an unfavorable change in the law…so why do it?….

  22. avatar Rusty - Molon Labe - Chains says:

    It is one thing to carry a pistol on your hip especially here in the South, it is entirely another to walk into a retail location with an AR over your shoulder and loaded up with tactical gear. Legal, here yes until an employee tells you to get out and calls the cops if you don’t. Frankly, if you go equipped like that you count as either an imbecile or a jackass.

  23. avatar Hannibal says:

    Yes, particularly the dimwits who go in with rifles, body armor, and tactical mall ninja stuff. You aren’t going to normalize guns to “the sheep” that way. Guys who go in with a simple holstered pistol? Different story.

    Businesses don’t want to deal with that bullshit. And the .05% of people who might engage in it are worth losing as customers to avoid it.

    1. avatar TexTed says:

      Exactly. This is a tactical decision by these businesses, and it was brought about by a douchebag who specifically set out to be as outrageous as possible, dressing military and carrying an AR-15 into a Texas Wal-Mart almost immediately after a Texas Wal-Mart was shot up by a douchebag dressing military and carrying an AR-15.

      So, yes, the 0.05% of open carriers are going to be inconvenienced because of the 0.0000001% of absolute douchebags out there. As far as the businesses are concerned, it’s a simple calculation, and one that’s well within their rights to make.

      Sucks for everyone that some stupid-ass dimwit douchebags have to ruin it for all the reasonable people out there, but that’s the way it always is.

  24. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    So, we should not ever exercise our right. Do we actually have a right if we cannot ever exercise it?

    1. avatar Hank says:

      Bingo. Seems most gun owners are ashamed they own guns.

  25. avatar daveinwyo says:

    All I can say is WOW.
    About a month ago this topic came up and I said what most of you have just said.
    The most repeated refrain is “just ’cause you can, should you?”
    I posed this question and was roundly criticized for it.
    I also suggested OC small. A mid size handgun in a non flashy holster or whatever but do it subdued. Again with the crap.
    I carry open once in a while but it is subdued, not in your face and I don’t make a big point of “look at me!”. I carry at the 3-4 o’clock position and a straight on look will miss that I carry. Most people can’t see or are too involved with their own life, to notice.
    What has changed here at TTAG?

    1. avatar Hank says:

      Yeah I’ve noticed that too. TTAG used to be inanely pro open carry. Now it seems pretty anti open carry.

    2. avatar Miner49er says:

      Yep, same here.

      I was vilified and called a commie for pointing out what a bad idea carrying AR15s in Walmart was.

      Now everybody is on board, what a bunch of flip-floppers…

  26. avatar John in Ohio says:

    Concealed means concealed squeal!

    Don’t worry. Y’all are next.

  27. avatar John in Ohio says:

    Nice blowjob to the establishment, Boch.

  28. avatar TexTed says:

    “Open Carriers” aren’t to blame. One douchebag is to blame. The douchebag who walked into a Wal-Mart carrying a rifle, wearing gear, and videoing himself the whole time. That douchebag set off this problem.

    And look — Wal-Mart can “get woke, go broke”. That’s their choice. Douchebags do not have a “right” to open carry in Wal-Mart unless Wal-Mart says they can (or at least doesn’t say they can’t).

    So the douchebag ruined it for everyone. This is why we can’t have nice things.

    1. avatar SoCalJack says:

      It was his “social experiment”. He’s not a representation all gun owners. But the news media, social media, and left leaning corporations will contiune doing what they do and lump us altogther.
      These are the enemies of gun rights and most sheeple are afraid of what they don’t understand. What he did was like when a soccer player mistakenly kick the ball into his own team’s goal. We can be activist, but we need to be smart about it.

    2. avatar Chris T in KY says:

      Surprise!!! We have criminals in this country.
      What education has the gun community done to tell the non gun owning public the benefits of having open carry? Especially in a crisis situation?

      If all you are saying is “I have a right”. But when asked “will you help stop an attack”? And you say “it’s not my business, call the cops”. Then what good are you in supporting the 2A?

  29. avatar Auxwood_rebel says:

    I feel sorry for the Vietnam vets (thank you for service, my dad’s a vet of the Veitnam era and will be the first to tell you he plowed snow in Michigan during the war, but he volunteered none the less) doing the greeter thing at the front door of walmart trying to tell the guy with an AK “sorry we don’t allow those”

  30. avatar A Random Human says:

    Open carry is good. It’s the only way to normalize/condition the populace to non government civilians with guns.

    Hiding your guns makes the public believe there isn’t guns in society, which makes them think they’re safe because there’s no guns around, when in fact there’s guns right next to them keeping them safe.

    I figure in America it’s much better to open carry than conceal carry when it comes to stopping crime because most criminals don’t want a fight. I wouldn’t say the same for places like Brazil. In Brazil it’s better to hide your gun and position yourself in a good place to respond when the robbers pull up on their motorcycle. In America walking around with your gun makes criminals go somewhere else, that includes mass shooters.

    The Russian kid that walked into the Walmart days after the El Paso attack is what started the ban on openly carrying guns on corporate property throughout the U.S. Smart people said this is the response that will occur because of his actions. Now it’s happened.

    This kind of thing started in California. They lost their right to carry cause the government made Californians not want to carry guns openly after they banned loaded open carrying due to black people carrying guns. All the hippies thought guns just disappeared after that. Out of sight, out of mind. Then when the guns were literally uncovered they had a panic attack about the sudden “increase” of guns in California. When in reality there is a lot of gun owners in California and people stuff them in their pants everyday when they go outside to Walmart or Whole Foods.

    Those that want you to only CCW are bad for the 2nd Amendment. They’re helping hide the fact guns are everywhere and good people have most of them. That we have so many guns yet gun violence is going down. People wouldn’t know that unless it’s literally right in front of them.

    Imagine someone told you to keep your opinion to yourself otherwise it will get free speech banned for everyone else. That would mean we have already lost our human rights in America and we are pretending like we didn’t. It’s just a formality that has to be written down by a politician.

    Don’t be scared to exercise your human rights in America. If things go negative, we will know where and who we have to fight against. Let’s bring them out in the open before it’s too late.

    1. avatar John in Ohio says:

      Spot on. Well said.

      “The Russian kid that walked into the Walmart days after the El Paso attack is what started the ban on openly carrying guns on corporate property throughout the U.S. Smart people said this is the response that will occur because of his actions.”

      I think this was more of an excuse for what was coming anyway. MDM and others have been screeching about OC for a long time now. They’ve been helped along by the concealed only crowd. If it wasn’t this guy’s ill timed walk, it would’ve been something else. The broad push against the people being armed, starting with open carry, was already loaded into the cannon.

    2. avatar Chris T in KY says:

      Thank you for reminding everyone about the Black Panthers in California. If you research the Mulford Act authors, you will find out that one of them was a member of the ACLU board of Directors.
      So when I say the ACLU helped write the racist gun control law in California. It’s not a lie. But the ACLU did support the KKK marching through black neighbourhoods while carrying guns. To the ACLU its good for whites but not for blacks.

      There is a time and place for long gun open carry. But grocery shopping is not one of them.

      https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/southern-dallas-group-openly-armed-to-patrol-neighborhood/287-b92f141d-e563-4a00-8778-d012def6244d

      https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/incendiary-image-day-ferguson-mo-armed-self-defense-editon/

  31. avatar B.D. says:

    ANyone who thinks open carry is to blame… how naive are you? Your conceal carry and ability to own are next, and the only thing to counter it is to open carry in numbers, right to their doorsteps. Nothing else will change your ability to own guns in the future. nothing.

    1. avatar Someone says:

      This guy gets it. /\

  32. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    People forget the Roof Koreans. The open carry of long guns has a limited constructive purpose. In these examples the residence support open carry.

    “Southern Dallas group openly armed to patrol neighborhood”
    https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/southern-dallas-group-openly-armed-to-patrol-neighborhood/287-b92f141d-e563-4a00-8778-d012def6244d

    “Ferguson: Where Open Carry Leads”
    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/ferguson-open-carry-leads/#

    The dumb @$$ in Springfield Mo wrecked it for everyone. Is there a reason why you can’t carry a sign that says “I’m a sheepdog” “I’m here to protect you” ?
    Instead of just filming yourself for your facebook page? Right after three mass shootings???

  33. avatar jonndoe says:

    Just because you can doesn’t mean you should act like some entitled Donny Mc douche, have a little common sense you’re lucky some ccl person didn’t shoot you,
    Personally If I was to open carry I would have gone for a service sized pistol like a Glock 17,Beretta 92,a full sized 1911or even a 4″ .357 magnum revolver a lot more subtle.This Is just my opinion

  34. avatar sound awake says:

    so if cvs is only saying no open carry but concealed carry is ok then can we still shop there or no
    not shopping at wal mart is no big deal for me
    not getting multiple prescriptions for multiple people at cvs is highly problematic from a logistical point of view
    no other in network pharmacies in my area…multiple doctors to call to change pharmacies…etc…

  35. Even as “non-firearms owner” I have to agree. There’s a lot of “Authoritarian Social Engineering” a bound…I visited a “freedom state” where people were “open carrying” pistols. I was like” WOW! This is so cool 😎! This is truly FREEDOM! ” Unlike, say coming from the People’s Republic of M Assachusetts…Where of course, according to the local/state police departments…It is a “local police issued privilege” and NOT a constitutional right…Believe me, I wasn’t alarmed…There wasn’t any sense of hostility. It was great….True normalized freedom in a polite society….

  36. avatar tfunk says:

    What’s interesting to me is that many are claiming anyone who carries an AR/semi auto rifle is a “look at me douchebag”. However, if one is wanting to be as well equipped as possible to counteract an attack, wouldn’t an AR type rifle be better to have on you than just a pistol? I know I’d rather have an AR with me if something occurred vs having only a handgun.

    Also, did Walmart make their decision to end sales of handgun and “short barrel rifle ammo” because of open carriers as well? I’m thinking both decisions were made due to the shooting.

  37. avatar Timothy Toroian says:

    BUT, we have to do “SOMETHING”, in a whiney voice caused by drinking chardonnay.

  38. avatar enuf says:

    These decisions are being made against us because people do not comprehend the impact of their actions. When those actions backfire they accept zero responsibility for screwing up everyone else.

    Walking into a Walmart to do a rifle carrying stunt so suddenly after a mass killing at a Walmart is the dumbest damned thing anyone could have thought up. People who behave so idiotically are a danger to the Second Amendment.

    Mostly I carry concealed but I have open carried plenty of times in my state, where it is recognized as a right under the State and Federal Constitution. Going to the bank, into Walmarts and Kroger supermarkets and Home Depots and many other places. A full size pistol in a proper holster on my hip and two spare magazines on the belt. Nothing showy or trying to make a statement or do some sort of test of public reaction.

    1. avatar Mark H says:

      It’s so incredibly stupid that I must presume that this was the actual intent.
      I figured it was an Anti stirring up trouble, not someone actually on the side of RKBA.

  39. avatar Mark H says:

    In AZ open carry is not that uncommon. Used to be super common before we got CCW, and went down a bunch when we got “Constitutional Carry”.

    Legal concealed carry is only available if you are 21 or older though. If you are under 21 the only legal way to carry is openly. As the father of an 18 year old daughter this maters to me.

    So my family won’t be shopping at Walmart if we can avoid it. And I have never needed to shop at either Walgreens or CVS. The problem being, that the Daughter’s Credit Union is actually IN Walmart.

  40. avatar Jill says:

    I will not be shopping at any of these stores anymore

  41. avatar Hank says:

    Worked for the gays. No really. Look. I’m old enough to remember when acting, dressing, or looking “gay” in public would literally catch you a beating. No bullshit. A lot of America outside of San Fransisco was like that. Starting in the 90s and going into the 00s/10s that all changed because gays began to demonstrate being openly gay in public, in numbers. All you anti open carry people can cry all you want about optics, but it works. It wasn’t that long ago that soccer moms would literally cover their children’s eyes and grab their children and walk away while yelling “freak!” Or “pervert” at gay or crossdressing men. Now you can’t throw a rock without hitting some transgendered, gay, or cross dresser. This may seem like a strange comparison but it’s real.

    1. avatar Pg2 says:

      I wish I was half as smart as Hank.

  42. avatar No One Special says:

    I can’t respond to all of that stupidity so I’m not even going to try. I will say that Missouri is NOT 100% constitutional carry. You can constitutional carry anywhere that doesn’t have an ordnance against open carry. Most major metropolises in Missouri have such ordnances. Essentially no open carry, no constitutional carry. The only other thing I’ll comment on is how sad a day is it when you have law enforcement that doesn’t know what a legal and illegal firearm is or what requires a tax stamp and what doesn’t? Were it me I’d probably not say anything and make a point to educate myself afterwards. How can someone enforce the law if they don’t know what the law is?

    1. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

      2 things we ran into a lot of back around 2008 here in PA when we were really pushing handgun OC was cops not knowing the law and cops not liking the law and enforcing their own opinions.

      1. avatar No One Special says:

        Missouri had some of the same issues when the state passed castle doctrine and concealed carry. Police were trying to arrest people for carrying concealed in their vehicles under castle doctrine and then trying to not issue concealed carry permits in a shall issue state. The state had to step in and tell the ones that didn’t want to issue permits that they didn’t have a choice and that those departments would under no uncertain terms issue permits to any lawful citizen of the state.

  43. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

    I have always said, the Far Right Extremists are always their own worst enemies. They frighten the non-gun owning public with their extremism which ends up causing stores to ban open carry altogether as well as concealed carry as well.

    And I have read where even concealed carry people were sometimes shot by panicked police when called to a story because some one saw a concealed carriers gun print or his shirt raise up when he bent over exposing the gun. I remeber the black man that was in a store and bent over exposing a gun and since he was black and not whit a panicked sales girl called the cops and the cops waited outside the store and simply gunned the concealed carry guy down with no warning execution style. Believe me it shook up every concealed carrier for many months after that episode including yours truly.

    When you carry openly you only invite a misunderstanding and a tragedy to happen. But when did the Far Right ever have any common sense about anything.

    1. avatar No One Special says:

      I really don’t think you of all commenters should be talking about common sense. I often wonder if you are capable of rational thought considering some of the things you have typed here.

      1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        Why would I want to be capapble of rational thought? Rational thought is what brought us capitalism and transphobia and high student loan debt and global warming. We socialists defy common sense and form our policy through stream of consciousness and our inner voices.

    2. avatar John Boch says:

      Sometimes even Vlad is sort of like a broken (analog) clock. He’s at least partially right for a moment or two each day.

      1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        I would like to thank you for aknowledge all my hard work. Let me tell you it has been real hard to keep trying and copying and pasting to educate the readers of this blog. But finally it is starting to pay off.

        I have read in a recent scientific poll that 84% of all readers of TTAG now understand and believe that the right to bear arms is a limited right subject to reasonable regulation. And someone I know and trust who is a real expert told me about a scientific study that shows 73% of the commentaters of the so called Truth About Guns will vote for the Hairy Kameltow in the 2020 elections. This is mostly do to me sharing my wit and wisdom with all of you. It is gratify that under my leadership and after all my clever insults you are finally starting to attack each other.

        Thanks alot.

        1. avatar David Deplorable says:

          Vlad, did your parents have any children that lived?

        2. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

          Bitch, please.

          The CC/OC divide has been around for a long time and is right up there with 9mm verses .45 or Glock or not Glock in pro gun circles.

  44. avatar WI Patriot says:

    “Walgreens, CVS, Others Also ‘Ask’ Customers Not to Open Carry”

    This isn’t the first go around with this, Starbucks did the same a few yrs back, Target did it a cpl yrs ago, and there are others, it’s really not that big of a deal…
    Either CC or don’t shop there, it’s just that simple…

    1. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

      Easy to say. My insurance company forces me to use CVS. I cannot boycott them unless I stop taking medication.

      1. avatar WI Patriot says:

        It really is that simple, so when you go in, wear a cover shirt, keep it in your vehicle…learn to think outside the box and your life will be much more productive…

  45. avatar Valhalla1776 says:

    I would have to say if you open carry for the “effect” or “shock” of it, your doing a disservice to your self and the community. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. I open carry all the time, but I live in a small Texas Town and everyone knows each other. I have picked my kids up from school with a gun on my hip openly, waiting and talking with teachers and other parents. I have picked them up in the car line with a carbine in the seat next to me. Never have I done anything for the effect, I know what’s legal and what’s not. If you are out in about doing your business (acting like you belong, so to speak) people really don’t care. Right or Wrong, If you are acting shady or doing something for attention, people pick up on it and the sight of a firearm will just increases their uneasy feeling.

  46. avatar No One Special says:

    My how fickle the POTG are. I remember reading in these comments in the past how open carrying as a statement of look at me because I can was not only right but prudent. Now the prudency has left the building. The sad thing is it was never prudent atleast not under the guise of look at me because I can. I have always been a proponent of concealed carry before and after people started this statement crap. I carried in the local Walmart two days ago and no one batted an eye. Why? Well because no one knew I was carrying and I didn’t feel the need to draw attention to myself like an entitled millennial. I carry in Buffalo Wild Wings what little I go there. Buffalo Wild Wings around here will ask you to leave if the know you are carrying. I’ve never been asked to leave because they don’t know that I’m carrying. I have in the past slipped and carried into the post office and bank. Again nothing was said because I was carrying concealed and I went about my business peacefully and left. This is just another example of go looking for attention and the attention that’s found may not be the attention that’s wanted.

    1. avatar WhiteDevil says:

      Yeah, this is beyond fucking pathetic. Don’t exercise a right because you’re afraid it might scare some people. Is that really where we have gotten? People used to carry long guns around, all the time, back in the day. Now it’s only okay if an “authorized official” does it. This is beyond infuriating. That people think we shouldn’t open carry because of the actions of a few. I thought they were the only ones too blame and that we had no part in it. I don’t remember any of the mall ninjas shooting anyone. They looked silly, sure but they didn’t go around double tapping Billy and his mommy after soccer practice. Let’s keep pussyfying society to the point where we can’t even exercise free speech because it may “be detrimental to free speech.” Sheesh, this is fucking outrageous coming from TTAG. I thought they were a defender of the 2nd amendment in every aspect.

      1. avatar No One Special says:

        Maybe you haven’t noticed but rights have been politicized by the left. Now it may not be right but it is definitely prudent to exercise those rights politically with tact. Going into the local Walmart or anywhere for that matter scaring the shit out of people that don’t know a damn thing about guns is not prudent and it damn sure isn’t acting politically with tact. People need to start warming up to this if they want to win the war. More times than not fighting every battle loses the war. Fight the important important battles and win. The wisdom comes in knowing the difference.

      2. avatar Voldamort says:

        Look to Wide Open Media, the corporation who bought RF out and hired all the precious little snowflakes that work at TTAG now. Wind them up and watch them go…. into places you thought they’d never go.
        Next stop, bloomberg’s pocket? Or are they already there and looking out?

  47. avatar Kyle says:

    Never wanted to open carry, and I likely never will.

    Bothers me not at all when people do however. I think “suzie soccermom” should stop get spooked by the sight of a gun. They dont get scared when they see a cop with one, the sight of someone in the military doesn’t cause her to go weak in the knees.

    Too many people seem to be in a hurry to “ban”.

    1. avatar No One Special says:

      Banning will solve nothing. It doesn’t hurt to let the dust settle on the body count from the last mass shootings before walking into the local Walmart with an AR and full tac gear either. Recording a stupid action in no way makes it any less stupid. All it does is make it possible to to show the world on YouTube how stupid the action was. There’s also the fact that retired LE and military carry firearms as well. Just because they don’t wear the uniform or act in an official capacity doesn’t mean they don’t have a right to carry a firearm still. Simple fact is they don’t draw undue attention to themselves. Which is all these people are doing, drawing undue attention to themselves. All that does is fuel the flames between progun people and Suzie soccer mom. This seems like a battle of who can be more stupid. These people carrying guns for effect are pretty much on par with Suzie soccer mom in the stupidity department.

  48. avatar anon says:

    —-another thing to thank ‘soccer moms’ for——-the rear cameras on a suv—–don’t remember where, but mom brought out her child, and a few bags—-loaded her vehicle, then proceeded to run over her daughter—–but it was the auto makers fault and proceeded to sue them for making the suv so big——–

  49. avatar Yellow Devil says:

    Notice some of these stores don’t differentiate between open carrying a handgun and open carrying a rifle. Heck some don’t even want people CCing in their store. Give an inch…just saying.

  50. avatar WhiteDevi says:

    Oh now we’re censoring people, huh Boch? Pathetic.

  51. avatar Anymouse says:

    Walgreens gave a shout out thanking Watts and MDA. Stating a preference is one thing, but taking an outright political stand is another. I’ll be taking my business elsewhere. As to the original question, the straw that broke the camel’s back was probably the fool walking around Walmart in full battle rattle after El Paso.

  52. avatar Chip in Florida says:

    “..asking customers not to open carry in their stores.”

    The first reaction of most, including me, is F-U! we’re not the problem.

    But give it a moment and let the thought run all the way through to the end and you just might realize what I did and that he insult is not to us as gun owners but is actually an insult to the gun-grabbers. Follow along….

    Dear law abiding citizens, please conceal your firearm while in our store. You see, we can’t stop those gun-grabbing idiots from shopping here but we can try to keep from exciting them. Please help us out by not exciting them because when they get excited they start flinging poo like those screeching monkeys you see at the zoo. Please help us out, neither one of us want to listen to their screeching. Please.

    1. avatar No One Special says:

      I don’t know if that’s the way the stores look at it but I like it.

  53. avatar Anonymous says:

    I’m going to deviate from you “keep your head down and be politically correct about guns” whinebags and say I like the audits. I do think they are taking too big a jump in the public’s eye and level of comfort. You have to push the envelope by putting people just a bit beyond their level of comfort by open carrying, etc. or throwing a hunting rifle over your back. But wearing a load bearing vest, 27 magazines, two rifles and a hand gun is too big a jump. People will flip out and call the police. So while I agree with the audits, it might be better to take smaller steps as it would probably be more productive.

  54. avatar Ronald West says:

    All this talk about racism been a crime, then what is this I don’t smoke but some do is it right too exclude their rights, no, but they took that right from them, the right to pray in public places the right to own business, homes, etc. Without paying them taxes to keep it. So you never really own anything, you pay school tax and don’t even have kids attending, it’s not right, illegals coming in who’s footing the Bill you are is it right no, we the true American people that love our freedom must put a stop to all this none sense, if we want to carry in or out that should be up to us, otherwise it’s racist discrimination which is supposed to be against the law,don’t let them take another inch, because they will take the whole mile and total control of America and all your rights to freedom in this great nation.

  55. avatar Kevin says:

    Yeah, you guys are right, just because we can stop a shooting, it doesn’t mean we should.
    just because we have free speech it doesn’t mean we should use it.
    just because we can own guns it doesn’t mean we should.
    just because you can work it doesn’t mean you should.
    just because we can worship as we chose, it doesn’t mean we should.
    just because….

    I say we should just give up on livin, wait for the benevolent left/government to save us.

    rights are antiquated ideas that have no business in a woke society.

    study after study has shown that 172% of OCers are assholes looking for attention, it is impossible to OC for any other reason

    CCers only are the einsteins of the gun community, they understand that we must continue to back away from OC, as no one should ever experience a negative feeling in public.

    we must fight for the right to have none, it is only as we free ourselves from freedom that we will experience true societal uphoria!

    one day soon the government will come for our guns, we should make sure we give them our bibles and children as well, for we all know that would be for the best.

    I dream that someday we will have no crime, no evil in this world, and each and every one of us can bring it closer by simply giving up ground. Its So Easy!!!

    WHO ELSE IS EXCITED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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