On Thursday, hundreds of “Liberate Michigan” protesters showed up in Lansing at the State Capitol to show their continued displeasure with Governor Gretchen “Half” Whitmer’s tyrannical edicts. Some of the protestors brought their long guns, which caused a stir.
Whitmer, who’s been campaigning to be Joe Biden’s vice presidential candidate, gained the coveted title as “Worst Governor in America” during the Wuhan flu pandemic the old fashioned way: she earned it.
With emergency orders ranging from a ban on motorized watercraft to a prohibition on the sale of infant and child car seats (both are apparently non-essential), the Wolverine State’s chief executive has ticked off plenty of everyday people who don’t normally concern themselves with politics.
Per order from @GovWhitmer, people in Michigan are now banned from purchasing a new baby car seat in stores.
This is dangerous and this order needs clarification immediately. #migov #mileg pic.twitter.com/hlWNab6OTY
— Tori Sachs (@Tori_Sachs) April 11, 2020
As Whitmer sought to extend her powers, everyday people showed up to protest. And the fact that some brought their long guns caused some legislators to piddle themselves.
Directly above me, men with rifles yelling at us. Some of my colleagues who own bullet proof vests are wearing them. I have never appreciated our Sergeants-at-Arms more than today. #mileg pic.twitter.com/voOZpPYWOs
— Senator Dayna Polehanki (@SenPolehanki) April 30, 2020
Someone queue up Chicken Little for Senator Polehanki.
Don’t tell Polehanki that soft body armor doesn’t stop rifle fire.
Plenty of news outlets covered the protest including ABC News:
Hundreds of protesters entered the Michigan State Capitol building Thursday and crowded its halls and staircases demanding that the state legislature not extend Gov. Gretchen Whitmer’s coronavirus stay-at-home order.
Numerous protesters, some not wearing masks, got into the faces of state police officers stationed inside the building and shouted to be let into the chambers, which are closed to visitors due to health precautions.
State legislators were meeting to discuss extending Michigan’s state of emergency, which was issued on March 10 and was slated to end on Thursday.
Protesters, some armed, spill into Michigan Capitol building demanding end to stay-at-home order https://t.co/3bE3oDW7qX via @YahooNews
— tweetybird (@tweetyb10072338) April 30, 2020
Not surprisingly, Al-Jazeera was a little more sensationalistic with their reporting.
Hundreds of angry protesters, some carrying firearms, gathered at Michigan’s State Capitol in Lansing on Thursday to protest against Governor Gretchen Whitmer’s request to extend the state of emergency to combat the coronavirus pandemic.
The protests came as state legislators debated a measure refusing the governor’s request and voted to authorise a lawsuit challenging her authority and actions to combat the pandemic.
At one point during the legislative deliberations, dozens of protesters – many without face coverings and some with rifles slung around their chests – entered the Capitol and demanded to be let into the House chamber, which was closed to the public to allow room for representatives and reporters to spread apart. The crowd shouted, “Let us in” while mask-wearing sergeants and state police blocked them.
Americans continue to resist increasingly corrosive and authoritarian edicts from power-mad local and state officials. After all, the Bill of Rights doesn’t have a “flu exemption.”
Plenty more protests are scheduled for various other states today, May 1, as well as this coming weekend to protest lockdown orders viewed by many as unnecessary and burdensome.
Last time they were on the steps outside. This time they were in the building, but not in the chamber. Next time….
The Molon Labe Spring as the media darlings would call it
Fortunately, the MI legislature did the right thing and voted down the Govertator’s request for an extension. Their lockdown ended last night.
Nope, extended until May 28th…
By an executive order that has no legal authority. The legislature shot down the bills necessary for the governor to give that order.
PWRSERGE,
What is your guess? Will the police attempt to enforce Gretchen’s illegal executive order?
The governor does not work for the people.
She works for the oligarchs who control the government, entertainment, journalism, education, the banking system, the medical/pharmaceutical system, industrial agriculture, most religious institutions, and the military industrial complex.
The oligarchs are always working to further consolidate their power. They never let a crisis go to waste. They are more than willing to exaggerate and lie about a crisis to achieve their ends.
Perhaps more importantly, the Governor’s executive order has no RIGHTEOUS authority.
Ordering 9+ million innocent people to house arrest for almost three months, destroying thousands of small businesses which will never recover, condemning thousands/millions of responsible and hard-working people to lose their homes to foreclosure, wiping out the future college/university prospects of hundreds of thousands of young adults, wiping out countless thousands of people’s retirement, and causing immense fear/anxiety over personal financial ruin of countless people is NOT something that the people of Michigan have empowered their Governor to do.
If North Korea marched into Michigan to do all that I outlined above, there would be immediate violent response — and that immediate violent response would be righteous. I am not sure why anyone thinks that very same response to our Executive branch is any less righteous.
Don’t get me wrong, we should give immense leeway to our Executive branch, even when we do not agree with their policies. That leeway ends when the Executive branch sets out to burn down a huge chunk of the state and ruin hundreds of thousands of residents’ lives.
Liberty’s Teeth
http://realitybytesblog.com/libertys-teeth/
Personally i am not so sure we should give so much leeway to the executive branch. To my mind they have had way too much leeway for way too long and it is long overdue time to curb them in and make them follow the constitution to the letter. Until we start holding them personally responsible for their decisions they will continue to make the same sort of low IQ decisions that they have been for decades now
Yup not that Evers here in WI is any better. We will see what you Retardicans actually do, probably nothing as usual. Glad I am not a member of either party.
Republican states are handling the issue much better then democrat ones. Like just about everything else.
Not sure that is accurate. Last I heard we have a new extension. Two new orders, actually. But I haven’t found clear wording on it. Even the local TV news reporters were saying that it is convoluted and confusing.
“Even the local TV news reporters were saying that it is convoluted and confusing.”
Anything liberals do is “convoluted and confusing”…
TV news reporters would find “See Spot run” convoluted and confusing.
“After all, the Bill of Rights doesn’t have a “flu exemption.””
The Bill of Rights doesn’t have any exemption contained within the text of the Constitution. The enumerated rights are unalienable.
Only through the edicts of tyrants in black robes have “exemptions” been created out of whole cloth. These “exemptions” remain unconstitutional.
Yes, it does. It’s called Strict Scrutiny analysis and the Courts have been applying it for a long time. I suggest you retake basic governance.
Skinner v. State of Oklahoma, ex. rel. Williamson, 316 U.S. 535 (1942), cf. Buck v. Bell 274 U.S. 200 (1927), banning forced sterilization
Brown v. Board of Education, 347 U.S. 483 (1954), ending segregation in public schools
One, Inc. v. Olesen, 301 U.S. 340 (1958), ending censorship of homosexual publications
Sherbert v. Verner, 374 U.S. 398 (1963), invalidating state law denying unemployment benefits to employees fired for refusing to violate their religious belief.
Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U.S. 479 (1965), striking down prohibition of contraceptives birth control
Loving v. Virginia, 897 U.S. 113 (1967), striking down prohibition of interracial marriage miscegenation
Wisconsin v. Yoder, 406 U.S. 205 (1972), striking down law requiring all minors to attend public school, thereby permitting Amish to remove their children from public schools after 8th grade
Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973), striking down ban on abortion
Employment Division v. Smith, 494 U.S. 872 (1990), allowing states to deny unemployment benefits to those using illegal drugs for religious purposes
Romer v. Evans, 380 U.S. 144 (1996), invalidating Colorado state constitutional amendment prohibiting enactment of local anti-discrimination protections for homosexuals
City of Boerne v. Flores, 521 U.S. 507 (1997), holding that some zoning laws may be an undue restriction of religious freedom
Gonzales v. O Centro Espírita Beneficente União do Vegetal, 546 U.S. 418 (2006), allowing religious use of illegal drugs
United States v. Windsor, 570 U.S. 744 (2013), striking down the limitation of marriage licenses only to heterosexual couples (a law which had disallowed same-sex marriage)
Strict Scrutiny refers to judicial review of government restrictions on individuals, and in no way exempts government regulators from the Bill of Rights. Thanks to the First Amendment, they can’t even prevent you lecturing Mad Max from a position of ignorance!
Hear, hear…
Correct.
The govenors, mayors etc. only have the power that it’s citizens let them have. Please quit the bitching and bellyaching and everyone in the state just go back to work and open business. She cannot jail or fine the entire state. next remove the whitless lady MacBeth. Waiting for the injustice department to step in, maybe in January.
Its a wonderful day in America when conservatives can yell at the police just like left-wing anti war protestors can. Of course the hypocrite Pig liberals will complain about the rudeness of conservatives armed with guns protesting the government.
This is what the first amendment was written for. Not for a pornographer. Not for George Carlin and his dirty words. But to address your representatives. And If you feel necessary in a very Stern but non-violent peaceful manner.
^^^ Agreed.
“a very Stern but non-violent peaceful manner”
They lose their minds over this but are okay with throwing shakes and pee balloons on peoples faces.
“Its a wonderful day in America when conservatives can yell at the police just like left-wing anti war protestors can.”
The problem the progressives are now running into is that in years past conservatives and “everyday” types didn’t/couldn’t protest since they were all at work while the Left would pay anarchists and others to be bussed in to act for their “causes”. Well, since the dumbasses shut down work for a huge portion of the normal working population what better way to spend the time than to go exercise one’s often little-used First Amendment rights along with those of the Second? Seriously, this movement needs to grow and move fast- I can’t think of a more grass roots fire to sweep the nation and bring back some common sense. As far as I can see, no laws have yet been broken by “our side”.
During the Virginia rally numerous protesters committed a felony while armed.
This Xer broke open carry laws when he brought his gun to show the government their place. He did what Republicans always do, he kissed the ground the enforcers walked on, never fired a shot to defend anything.
“Whites get freedom of association again”
When did white folks lose freedom of association?
Well.
For example a single mother on welfare living in a government “gun-free zone” housing project. She cannot associate with a male according to US law.
If she does she can be prosecuted. Sent to jail and lose all her benefits. And it has happened in the past.
There is a difference between a conservative. And a Republican. Just as there is a difference between a conservative and a Democrat.
I’m glad that conservatives stood up for the Second Amendment civil rights of black people. Something that Democrats and Republicans have often failed at in the past.
It was conservatives. Members of the John Birch Society. Who stood up for the gun rights of the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense. Putting their words on record in the California state legislator debate regarding the Mulford Act.
But Reagan is your gun grabbing Conservative hero who passed the ban on open carry. Yeah you really like talking out of both sides of your mouth.
And, I would add, that it was that mealy-mouthed elitist Wm. F. Buckley who tossed the JBS out of the “conservative” movement. Along with a bunch of people who worked very hard to try to get Barry Goldwater elected POTUS.
Now that Buckley’s stooges have self-immolated, and the neocons who scribble for his contingent of “cruise ship conservatives” have been relegated to the fringes of American politics to whine and mewl like the castradi they are, maybe we can once again start seeing full-throated American conservatism come to the fore.
Which means things aren’t going to go well for the tax-fattened police forces or the ChiComs…
To Guy in WI
I’m not concerned about a dead white Governor or a dead white president. I’m more concerned with the racist and living white liberal political leadership in the state of California. And in fact it was a white homosexual, State Senate President, Tom ammiano who wrote the law making everyone wait, an extra 10 days to get a gun. That white man publicly embraced the Mulford act. When he was asked to repeal it. In my book that makes that white homosexual as racist as President Reagan is called by his detractors.
But you support people like that don’t you???
Penny-wise and pound-foolish, I assume from your posts that you believe you should be respected due to the color of your skin. Sorry, it don’t work that way, and never did. “Look at me!” gets you nothing but disdain. Get a job, earn a promotion, trust me, you’ll feel better.
When the people fear the government, there is tyranny
When the government fears the people, there is freedom
More of This!!
It’s needed now more than ever.
When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.
When the government fears the people, there are dead people.
FIFY
She’s not the fucking queen of Michigan
Tell her that…
This nitwit whitmer looks like an aging dime a dozen bar🍸fly. That democRat douchebaggur needs to be removed from office.
Goes to show how stupid voters are to ever put an azzhat like her in office.
To help educate voters and spare America anymore grief I’ll condense my vast political knowledge into one sentence. If a candidate has a D beside their name it means guaranteed Dirtbag and don’t vote for them; all others hold your nose and hope for the best.
Most politicians believe that peaceful protests by patriots are to be simply ignored. Patriots will be peaceful, until it is time not to be..
So when communists are cheering the president’s and governor’s actions of implementing communism in America it’s not the time?
Just shush, please. We are tired of the boomer and their children’s rhetoric.
Let’s hear a list of your deeds and actions, o mouthy one.
They’ve got to vote these kind of people out of office, or things are going to get really ugly really quick, including New York and California, they’ve got to quit poking the bear and it’s the government that is doing it
Make sure your hair smalls wonderful senator polehanki when you meet Old Joe. He likes that fruity stuff.
May wish to wear your bulletproof panties, too!
someone please identify the rifle the dude is hauling around. Looks like FAL, could he not find a lighter rifle to tote around. Or maybe he was going for the knock down power.
It’s a FAL, can’t quite tell from the pic, but an HBAR is what it appears to be built off of, although para length it looks like. No pencil barrel is that. Probably one of DSA’s builds this one would imagine.
Also, probabilities would be for enhanced soft armor pen values, just my guess. I’d take a 7.62 or better platform too, when the potential opfor is mostly wearing armor.
Who’s the wannabe dictator again?
That can happen when a tyrant is elected to governor of a state, same goes for a locality or nation, tyrants beware.
Here’s a thought, don’t govern in such a manner that armed protesters feel the need to show up at the capital of your state.
Just a thought.
These limpdicks boomers are not going to do a damn thing. Remember when they came to protest in Virginia and allowed themselves to go unarmed into their cuck fence? This is all bluster so some boomers can pose in their condor plate carriers and infect themselves with the Kung Flu. It’s cute though they’re in such a desperate rush to make their bosses money.
“These limpdicks boomers are not going to do a damn thing. ”
Keep hoping they don’t.
Because if trouble starts it’s going to be far and wide, soy boy.
uh-huh, like they overcame tyranny in Virginia, right?
First you use the election process (the ballot box) to replace the rats and restore liberty. Only if that doesn’t work and there is clear evidence (jury box) that the elections were tampered with and the will of Virginia’s People was thwarted, can/should the next step (ammo box) be considered.
Soap box, election box, jury box, ammo box. If you proceed out of that order on any of those steps, you risk the legitimacy of your actions when you take the next one.
Northam has gone off the rails. Wait until VA’s next election cycle before ranting.
Good luck replacing the DemonRats at the ballot box with a majority non-white electorate. Demographics is destiny bro- and you have no Grandchildren.
@I Haz A Question
Northam cannot run again. That’s why he went all in, for his legacy. He was victorious. He will walk away very happy with himself and he will make a lot of money for his work. He will ride off with no new holes and a smile on his “blackface.”
truth, just as I asked sensor above. What is your list of deeds? Outside of trolling your betters?
@Censor,
Northam isn’t the only VA Democrat in office. He can only sign bills that are submitted to him by the state Legislature. So, there are seats that can be flipped to remove control from the Dems.
Chief, Northam started going all in when his racist past caught up with him. That’s how liberals go about being forgiven and their sins forgotten.
You’re just a sad lonely individual…
Because Boomers, and their children, don’t show up because they have to work all day and night and they have better things to do. Now they don’t have work, but very few show up. When they do, they refuse to wear a mask and they refuse to go toe to toe with the government. They simply bark until they get thirsty, then they return to their cage like a good dog.
Fighting for freedom and liberty is a lonely endeavor. When a few people do show up they leave after a few minutes of yelling, they spend more time cleaning up after themselves. When things need to be done that require sacrifice only the commies stick around.
After:
-outsourcing the auto manufacturers overseas
-the destruction of Christianity and the family
-legalization of Gay marriage
-Tinder and dating apps leaving 1/3 of males under 30 incel
-Invasion of illegal aliens
-the cartoonishly corrupt handling of the PPP and EIDL by the diversity-hire Jovita at the SBA
-being lied to about masks by diversity-hire Surgeon General
-0 miles of wall built
-no Muslim ban
-Wanton destruction of PPE and cross-contamination by Nurses doing TIkToks (which is Chinese spyware)
These boomers did nothing.
But heaven forbid you prevent them from going to a movie theater and seeing the latest Harvey Weinstein film in the movie theater… you get this cringe. Make sure you guys throw in an 11 year old girl open carrying an AR15 condition 1 inside the capitol. People love the child soldier aesthetic.
Why not open carry a handgun in a retention holster? Enforce height/weight standards? Naw – overweight diabetic boomers need to LARP to support an astroturfed movement. Most of these boomers are retirees- so they are really asking other people to work for them.
I see some words scattered above, but not quite sure where the logic went…
Anti-Trump chi-com trolls are panicking now that Trump is looking to be running into a landslide victory in November. He just set new approval records.
The constant trolling on here is pointless. It seems to be a sad attempt at either getting attention or venting frustration with life. There’s rarely a half-way intelligent case being made.
Yes- anyone who has a viewpoint that is more right wing than your is a troll.
^ A prime example.
“the destruction of Christianity and the family
-legalization of Gay marriage
-Tinder and dating apps leaving 1/3 of males under 30 incel”
I found these statements very refreshing.
I’d love to hear more about the destruction of Christianity, I somehow missed that event.
Just exactly why are you so upset about gay marriage? If you don’t like gay marriage, don’t have one.
Dating apps made 33% of the male population under 30 involuntarily celibate?
I must ask, could you explain your reasoning behind that assertion?
From the dating apps and availability and attitude of young women these days, I think a guy would have to work pretty hard not to get laid.
^ peak BOOMER
The boomers on this board cannot fathom being attacked from the right.
The COG poster was expressing his disgust with liberal policy and the lack of response.
Yeah when Retardicans get trolled by the actual right it goes way over their heads. I found it equally entertaining.
Ok, Karen
Him, boomer with guns. Does Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Iraq 1 and early Afganistan/Iraq 2 ring a bell?
You sound like Michelle Obama’s asshole. Big but all gas.
Not just Michigone. Reports from the local lamestream(WLS news) in Chiraq that 3 “militia groups” are protesting downtown(!)LOL. I’d think if they WERE Boch would comment about it…
Whitmer’s approval rating in Michigan is 63%. Sorry, AR goobers, but most people like Daddy Government to wipe their asses for them.
Americans were taught in government school to worship government. They were taught non centralized government is chaos that brings death and destruction to civilized society. They were taught to be a powerless victim who needs men in uniform to protect them from everything. The children were raised to be weak and fearful.
A pitiful society full of liars, that’s the America of today. Four generations of servants begging for some more slop while kissing the boot.
Even those with guns dress up as a joke. They are not prepared to actually use that gun on their favorite masters. Don’t bring a gun if you are not willing and able to use it right then, right there, on those people. Put your damn guns back in the safe until you are actually prepared to be called a terrorist and open fire on the enforcers. Stop your cowardly posturing, we already know you ain’t going to do shit.
What shit have you done? Or should we just call you coward?
He is Vlad’s alterego. Pay him no mind.
I really miss Vlad…
Nobody misses Vlad.
one man mass gathering has even higher ratings. for the moment. there will be a sea change.
boy, is it nice out…
But the Constitution has an Insurrection and Invasion exemption. Article I, Section 9. You are lucky that Bush decided not to declare war on Al Qaeda because if we did the Government would not have needed a Patriot Act.
There is no reason to bring a long gun or open carry unless that is your normal carry mode to this kind of demonstration. You protest the order, just ignore it. That is way more effective than parading around with guns because you think you have to stay home when you don’t.
American politicians are executing communism in America with majority support. If ever there was a time for revolt…
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/what-covid-revealed-about-internet/610549/
Internet Speech Will Never Go Back to Normal
In the debate over freedom versus control of the global network, China was largely correct, and the U.S. was wrong.
When they stop eating dogs, cats, bats and bugs, I’ll listen to what the Chicoms have to say before I ignore them.
When Taiwan and Hong Kong can overthrow the European communist’s agenda in China the people won’t eat whatever they can find.
You would eat your pets if you couldn’t ever go outside because government said so. You would feed your children your best friend to keep them alive once you ran out of frozen pizzas.
WTF?
After the European people brought communism into Asia, the Chinese people were forced to eat whatever they could find. They didn’t eat dogs because they wanted to. Central planning ruined them. The genocide of Chinese culture erased their former greatness. Communism starved them into eating their own pets. The starvation brought forth a one child policy. The Chinese Boomer still behaves like they did when they were children under the heavy fist of communism.
this is why guinea pigs make sense to keep.
You from Peru tsbhoa.p.jr?
Ok, you first.
@Chief
KGB or coward? Gotta be one or the other! Always telling others what to do but never doing.
But the establishment will still exist. The enforcers will have a new figure head to take orders from. The cops are the major problem because without a police state she would move to Canada.
The men standing between the politicians and the people are the great dividers. They are the wall between the people and their human rights.
Anyone else notice how much she looks like Caitlin Jenner?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/Michigan_National_Guard_members_participate_in_inauguration%2C_Adjutant_General_swearing-in_190101-F-VX133-049.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Caitlyn_Jenner.jpeg
No, but now I can’t unsee it.
Regarding the Biden endorsement picture;
Uuum, he’s not the Vice President bitch, try again.
To the Boomers and their children, some of us loud mouths, the people you call trolls, are not actually trolling. You need to learn Millennial slang. Those posters are simply calling you out on your BS. They are tired of hearing how you are a patriot and Democrats are the only people to blame. They grew up hearing all your badass patriot talk, all your don’t tread on me fantasies. Now those kids are grown and they’re still hearing you barking. At this point they outnumber you because Boomers are going extinct — and the Boomer’s children are irrelevant shadows.
The youth are tired of people like this:
What a stupid shallow comment. A comment that offers yet more proof that millennials are low IQ, shallow, selfish, lazy slugs. All the millennials can do is complain about how bad they have it and how mean the booners are.
The Boomer allowed this problem we have now because they were lazy. Now they want Millennials to fix the Boomer’s failures while they call Millennials lazy.
Lol, most millennials can’t change a tire.
I wouldn’t trust a Millennial to fix a rock. Amazing how they whine about the boomers, but if we took away all the stuff they have that boomers invented and developed they would be crying like stuck pigs. The only thing I’ve ever seen a Millennial make is trash.
Change a tire? Most couldn’t even drive a stick or mow their lawn themselves, or even have one to mow.
Fuck u you and your pig buddy’s are anti American worse you are a commie saying that you are a patriot fuck the police and fuck u
Thank God for the founders of this country. Who put in writing recognizing the citizen’s right to machine guns. Or any other type of Arm, the citizen wants to use to protect themselves, against a tyrannical government.
Yeah go get your bump stock out and proceed to the nearest range. I am sure Trump will pardon you personally.
In the land of the free and the home of the…
Did you do know that they make binary triggers for 22 caliber rifles now?
(Smile)
This is one of those things where the resolution is hard to find because neither side really has a good grasp of the argument. Generally the protestors are right but they seem not to know why or are unable to articulate the reasoning. That’s a major vulnerability politically.
If, as an argumentative exercise, you just grant the governor the argument that she has the ethical right to do what she’s doing she still violates a number of the Fuller Rules on “making law”.
2) Rules are not properly announced.
4)Rules are not understandable.
5)Rules are, or appear, contradictory.
6) Rules are impossible to follow.
8) Rules and their application are incongruent.
People may not know the ways to “fail to make law” or be able to quote the individual rules but they most certainly are capable of looking at the overarching picture and knowing it’s wrong in multiple ways.
That situation only gets worse when the sovereign insists that these rules for law making don’t exist or are, in fact, being followed. People see that and get angrier about it.
The issue here, that the governor fails to grasp, is that even if she has the moral authority to do this her methodology is so fucked that she has “failed to make law” which means that there isn’t any school of thought that says her “rules” must be obeyed. The harder she tries to enforce her “rules” the more legitimacy she loses.
Unfortunately, the protestors don’t seem to be able to articulate a coherent and likable argument against the situation and the media is pretty adept at taking that fault and magnifying it to make them look bad in the effort to make them look worse.
Such is the state of politics. Not trying to be better but to just be “not as bad” as your opponent and using manipulation to cover your own deficits.
And the disk spins faster and wobbles just a bit more…
I think the protesters are very angry right now. After all the government has told them they cannot plant a tomato garden. They cannot buy a baby seat for their newborn child. They cannot use a motor for a boat to go fishing. They cannot travel to their property in the countryside. All of this and more is against the law.
Yes the protesters are indeed very angry right now. And perhaps after they cool off, they’ll be able to articulate themselves much better to everyone else’s satisfaction.
But right now they are using their first and second amendment rights to address their representatives. As was intended by the founders of this country.
I do not disagree with anything you’ve said here.
I’m pointing out that we need some cooler heads as “the face” of this. If there are no base principles then everything gets wildly out of control when the debate becomes entirely subjective.
For example, the argument advanced by the other side is that the governor is right because the protestors are irresponsible and violating the rights of others.
I would ask what rights they’re violating. The answer seems to be the right of other people who are at risk to do things like get groceries.
However that logic falls apart just on initial examination. A person’s right to shop for groceries is an exercise of their right to freedom of association. They could order groceries online or whatever, but even if they couldn’t they’d still have the right not to grocery shop. Always remember that the existence of a right is not a guarantee of a set of good choices before you nor is it a guarantee of a good outcome. They could use freedome of association to stay home until they starve… unless we’re gonna argue that the governor can force them to grocery shop which is a position that the governor’s allies won’t take, and for good reason.
Now, if the protestors don’t have a right to freedom of association then it’s not really a right but rather it’s a privilege. That would mean that the “high risk” shopper doesn’t have that right either but rather it’s a privilege. If that’s the case then the governor can order them not to engage in either action.
You can’t say the protestors don’t have the right to do what they’re doing because it infringes on the right of others because that argument means the “right of others” doesn’t exist either. And the protestors can’t infringe on a right that doesn’t exist.
If we follow the logic of rights in both cases then either the protestors have a right to make such a decision as does the “high risk shopper”. If we say one or the other doesn’t have that right then the other doesn’t have it either because it’s not really a right and now we’re down to picking favorites based on our like or dislike of the action those people perform.
If we’re going to down the latter road then we need to be honest about it and simply jettison the “rights” language altogether. But the other side won’t do that.
So, like Alinsky, we should demand that they are held to their own linguistic and ethical standards.
@ Bart
And you’re 110% CORRECT my good man ! I wonder why so many cannot see it too…..
Does it look a little extreme and reckless? Yeah it does and you’d act the exact same way if you had a bit of pride in yourself and were being legally barred from living your life and supporting your family. I can’t blame the protestors one bit. If commies can burn a campus over a gay guy named milo wanting to host an event then real Americans can bear arms and shout. Sic semper tyrannis
Once again, liberals crying about how “threatened” they are by a peaceful protest where nobody was arrested and the protesters went home at the end of the day.
When we’re there to threaten you, you’ll know it.
How in the hell can you people be writing stories about American Liberties, the 2nd Amendment & Constitutional Rights while you are allowing ads for Biden for president? Are you all Fucking Hippocrates or just whores who will do anything for a Buck.
You people and your web site can all burn in hell now & I wouldn’t piss on you to save you’re ass.
Bye!
You just do not understand how internet ads work, do you?
If you are seeing ads for Biden, it is your own fault. Internet ads are targeted user by user depending upon the sites you visit. TTAG is not putting up Biden ads, all TTAG and most websites do is sell space to ad companies who in turn buy tracking data on YOU.
Enormous profits are made by companies that predict what you are interested in based upon your internet activity. They then track that activity and target ads for you wherever you show up. You ever see that movie “Minority Report”? They target ads by scanning your retinal pattern as you walk by?
That’s their advertising wet-dream Future World.
@Enuf
In this case the ad was part of the article. I didn’t like that either even though it was painted in a bad light it was in poor taste.
Fair ‘nuf. I saw that too but didn’t think that was the ad being complained about. I have seen complaints like this on other pro-gun websites (GunBroker Forums, for example). So I figured it was side-bar ads and pop-ups.
I don’t see any of that stuff, keeps it all nice and clean on the screen 🙂
I used to block all ads. Now I try to view some ads on YouTube in order to help support certain channels. I recently heard that YouTube was running on ads on a channel that they demonetized. Talk about an evil company!
Funny how when these people fly the flag upside down it’s patriotic, but anyone else who knows this nation is in dissent is probably a racist. To be fair, if BLM did it, it would be racist. Same goes for any far right group. But when you see a bunch of trump flags right next to an American Flag upside down, you have to wonder what the motivation is. Trump does not give a fuck about you. You can make it about freedom and remove party affiliation while flying the flag that represents the initial belief of the country right side up. Just sayin. Don’t really care tho, a flag is a flag, but some people do that shit out of spite and racially motivated hypocrisy, and that bugs me.
Meanwhile, in the city of Gallup, NM (pop 22K), the outgoing mayor and the incoming mayor both asked the governor to close off all roads leading into Gallup. The city now has about 1/3 of all COVID-19 cases in the state and asked their town be closed off and the state police enforce social distancing. This is under a state law called The Riot Control Act.
Meanwhile, a ways further down Interstate 40, the mayor of the city of Grants, NM (pop 9K) has announced he wants all businesses to ignore the Governor’s orders and operate freely.
Meanwhile, CDC data is showing that total deaths for the first four months of 2020, on data not yet complete or final, are already 66,000 higher than the norms. That’s all deaths nationwide, not just those known to be COVID-19, 66,000 deaths more than there should have been.
I get it that people are pissed off, angry at our supposed leaders. You should be, they are incompetent to say the least.
That does not change the fact that this ain’t just another flu and it is not going away just because we are tired of it.
Meanwhile, I am in an industry considered essential. We have just started a new screening process, handed down from corporate. To enter the workplace each day we must answer a series of screening questions and our temperature will be taken. To speed it up, the questions can be answered on a smart phone before arriving, and save the green SAFE TO ENTER screen to show at the building entrance. We will do this for at least the next two full months.
If you all thought the shit got real when the toilet paper and the Newman’s Own bottled spaghetti sauce got scarce, you ain’t seen nothing yet.
Well said. It has only just begun.
Everybody doing whatever they want (freedom?) to control their territories. It’s the calm before the storm, and that’s why people are gathering. They are confused. It’s either “don’t tell me nothing I can figure it out myself” or “help me”, and unfortunately, because of the circumstances, gathering is exactly what will keep this disease slowly bouncing back and forth on a plateau. I also work in an essential business. A customer based one. At first it was everyone go home, and now doors are wide open. Nobody has a clue what to do because everyone did it either too early, not at all, or will do it too late. Either way, there is nothing flu like about it. It’s not a season. You can get it, and recover, then get it again. Scary stuff.
The only thing I know, is at the very least while I am forced to be around the would be infected, I’m going to practice all the things that I would have been considered a germaphobe for doing before, that is now socially acceptable. Please, before you sit down, let me lysol the fuck out of my office and turn on my AC to full blast.
And I agree. Icompetence is to blame, as usual. Politics, amiright.
Great, misspelled incompetence. Real convincing.
The really serious and experienced biostats people think this is gonna come out to <1% fatality rate.
Current testing, realistically, is mostly catching the most severe 3% the people who have symptoms, which most don't. The denominator on this division problem is unknown. The only thing that is known is that it's far, far larger than the current "official numbers".
The media is selling fear porn at this point mostly because it gets them revenue and, honestly, they're probably panicked a bit too because they don't understand this at all themselves because they have zero science or math training.
If most people saw the reports my wife fills out every week to be sent to the CDC they'd shit themselves, hide under the bed and think an ELE was occurring every week of the year. My wife made the mistake around the beginning of the year of talking to me about one of those reports in front of one of our neighbors. The lady proceeded to have a fit that everyone in the country was at risk of an incurable parasitic infection that she was sure would kill 10% of the population. Literally none of that was true. The next day her husband and another neighbor approached me to ask about the "secrets" my wife's lab was keeping from the public and how the neighborhood could protect itself. *facepalm* material at best.
See the link below from about a week ago, the lady does a decent job of explaining this, and it's from NPR, hardly a right-wing kook site trying to downplay the significance of the issue.
“Somewhere likely below 1% percent of people who are infected die, but we’re trying to nail down exactly where that number lies.”
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/24/844562935/why-the-true-fatality-rate-of-covid-19-is-hard-to-estimate
The data from NYC suggests that the CFR is between 0.7 and 1.0 percent. The Spanish Flu CFR is usually given as 2.5% but that is most certainly too high since many more people got mild than serious cases. Recent research suggests that nearly everyone may have been infected. So the C19 CFR may be in the same range as the Spanish Flu.
You are correct.
What we can, and really must, do is follow where the data leads and not get off into the fantasy land on either side.
As I’ve said here repeatedly, it’s not “just the flu” and it’s not killing 5%+ of the people who get it either. Both sides like these ideas because they fit in a neat little box. That’s something reality nearly never does.
But we do have data, more than we can handle really. NYC health department data from a week back indicates an infection rate for JUST the city of almost 70% higher than the current nationwide confirmed case count. Cuomo even talked about it. Now, by itself that might be an error but that kind of data is coming out of health departments nationwide and the Health Ministries of other countries as well. The spread looks to be from 12.4x to 85x higher than confirmed numbers. But can we just apply one of those numbers? Probably not because the actual spread is going to vary by location, geography, demographics, culture etc. The only thing we can know for sure is that we’re missing A LOT of cases and probably missing a few deaths. Really getting our arms around these numbers will probably take at least another four months, maybe a year.
It’s important to look at what the data says and what it doesn’t say. It’s also important to avoid conclusions that *fit* the data just because we want it to. Here in Colorado there’s much ado about “excess deaths” (COVID added to the statistically expected deaths and then subtracted from the real deaths). We have something like ~460 “excess deaths” in the past six weeks. “IT MUST BE COVID!” scream the journalists.
Well, it could be but we don’t have data to say that either way and, logically, it’s unrealistic to think that 100% of them are from CoV-2 when there’s a ton of other explanations that haven’t been ruled out. Suicide, OD, stress related heart attack, missing routine medical appointments, accidents due to incompetent people attempting home repair, domestic abuse, running out of meds, crime etc etc. The list goes on and on and on. Until we have a CoD on those people to say “It must be CoV-2!” is completely fucking irresponsible…. but it sells copy and, as I said above, I doubt the news folks realize the logical jump they’ve made.
On top of all this, we have to be careful about who we listen to about what. The Week ran an article a couple days back about how this is up to 45x more deadly than the flu. The based that on a Doctor’s opinion. A DOCTOR! they said. Problem is that he’s an ER doc, not an epidemiologist and not an infectious disease specialist. He openly admits that he didn’t have the first clue how the CDC did it’s flu numbers until a couple days before he wrote an article and he admits that most of his “data” is really anecdotes from his own experience in a hospital ER setting. Does that sound like an actual expert? I mean, he didn’t know this a week back but he got up to speed and is now better than epidemiologists and infectious disease specialists with decades of experience? Doubtful. And he did that all when he’s eight years out of his residency and without any special training in either subject? Doubly doubtful. And how does his anecdotal point of view match with other “experts”? PCPs? ICU docs? Osteopaths? Oncologists? They’re all medical professionals after all. Surely we should consult them too, it’s not like they have a limited point of view or anything.
No, he sounds like a good ER doc, and I’m sure he is, but he’s out of his wheelhouse here. I wouldn’t go to him for endocrinology, oncology or epidemiology. I’d go to him if I got hit by a car or something. Just because he’s an MD doesn’t mean he’s the type of MD we want to talk to about this specific issue. Yet he’s cited as a certified “expert” on this topic about which he openly admits a week ago, he knew jack shit.
I don’t go to my PCP for endocrinology, I don’t go to my endo for a sinus infection or a physical and I don’t go to either if I get a cancer diagnosis. We know this, yet when we panic we ignore it.
Half-wit, half bitch! 🐩
Off topic, but that guy on the right in the photo with the skull on his back has the Harley sweatshirt I want. Waterproof fleece with removable hood and thumb hole cuffs to keep your sleeves from riding up on the ride.
Going on a 260 mile ride today with a group. It’s still possible to have fun while social distancing. I’m trying to find the middle ground with this thing. Not being stupid and pretending I’m invincible, but not hiding away like a hermit, either.
Anarchists, not freedom fighters.
Maybe someone can help me out here. It Michiganers are locked in their homes than how did they get to Lansing?
i wonder why S. Korea, and other Asian nations did not have shutdowns (mostly they did testing in mass, tracing, and isolation of the infected) and the US had to go opposite and like in a panic. Anyone know? A good friend in the military there In South Korea says they never shut down. Everyone just wore masks and they tested a lot.