![Scene of off-duty cop [purported] defensive gun use (courtesy chicagotribune.com)](https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Scene-of-off-duty-cop-purported-defensive-gun-use-courtesy-chicagotribune.com-.jpeg "Scene of off-duty cop [purported] defensive gun use (courtesy chicagotribune.com)")
“The incident began at about noon today when the off-duty officer was at his home with his child when he did not respond to his doorbell and a knock on the door,” chicagotribune.com. “Believing that it was a solicitor, the officer ignored the people but noticed that after not responding, a van parked in front of his home sped off, returned and parked on the side of the home . . . At that point, the officer began to hear noises in the front of his home and heard someone trying to push open the front door . . . The officer told his child to hide in a bedroom and he called 911 to report that people were trying to break in, police and Camden said.” Did he? Did he really? Maybe he did. But here’s something else the unnamed officer did that seems a tad questionable . . .
After seeing the frame of the home giving way he went outside the side of the home and spotted the men trying to break in. As the homeowner walked around his home, he saw one of the men running north on Princeton Avenue after he was spotted . . .
Another man ran around the home and appeared to have a gun in his hand and began pointing it at the off-duty officer, said [Fraternal Order of Police spokesman Patrick] Camden and police. The off-duty officer, who was armed, shot at the suspect and hit him.
Whenever a cop says a suspect “appeared to have a gun in his hand” my BS detector screams bloody murder. The fact that the wounded man was shot in the back doesn’t do much in terms of silencing said alarm.
Don’t get me wrong. A bad guy can turn around just as an armed defender fires, resulting in a back wound. And as sure as eggs are eggs, the off-duty cop is the good guy in this story, regardless of the exact circumstances of the shooting. But . . .
If it was you or me who shot a burglar in the back in Chicago, we’d be arrested, have our name in the papers and face a criminal investigation. That’s all I’m sayin’ . . . [h/t VE]
cop needs more practice. in detroit, homeowners shoot to kill
As I was reading the headline, my brain jumped ahead and I thought it was going to say, “Off-Duty Chicago Cop Shoots Citizen With Concealed Carry License Who Appeared to Have a Gun in His Hand”
Thankfully that was NOT the headline and it did not happen.
So…a good shoot in TX?
“Wounded”
Yes. This wouldn’t make headlines in Texas.
Suicide. No doubt about it. I once saw a guy who stabbed himself in the back 3 times, hit himself over the head with a club, and threw himself in front of a truck. Worst case of suicide I ever saw.
Was this someone who had the goods on the Clintons in Arkansas? 😀
Some of them cut both of their arms and legs off, than shot themselves. (OK, maybe an illustrative exaggeration, but you get the picture).
According the the State Medical Examiner, one cut his own head off….
[withdrawn]
Legally, a LEO, off duty or otherwise, has no more authority for justified use of deadly force than you or I.
If only that were true. Still, nothing would have happened at all if the scumbag hadn’t tried breaking in. So, there’s that. The scumbag(s) bear nearly 100% responsibility for putting the sequence of events in motion.
I want 2!
If things didn’t play out like you hypothesize in your last paragraph, you’d probably post the incident as a DGUOTD..
Sometimes the cops aren’t the bad guys.
I do agree that there is often a disparity as far as how OIS vs everyday public defensive shootings are handled, here in the Detroit area we have seen lots of DGUs lately, with no charges pressed, and the home owners seemingly allowed to keep the weapon used (see the case of the lady with the Hi-Point carbine vs teens, she was showing the firearm to reporters)
Regardless of cop or not, I can think of exactly one absolute that would have kept the guy from suffering a GSW to any part of his body…:Don’t break into anyone’s home.
Was the man in Texas, who shot and killed his daughter’s boyfriend because the father thought he was reaching for a weapon, charged for murder?
No?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/14/charges-unlikely-for-houston-dad-accused-shooting-daughters-boyfriend/
Why not? Rich people already own the US military and use it to start wars for their interests, so why shouldn’t one individual that can afford it be allowed to buy any type of gun?
If you really really want one
If this was a regular citizen those of you who are “asking “questions” would be praising the homeowner for defending his family and property. And a police officer has the legal authority to act as a LEO 24/7. They are never off duty only not at work.
Actually. many of us are saying the officer did a LOT of things wrong – see my comment above.
What we are lamenting is that there will be none of the legal repercussions for his mistakes that would have fallen heavily on any non-LEO who had acted in the same manner.
Stupid is as stupid does and he should face the same consequences he would have dropped on any non-LEO if he were the officer responding to the call.
I’ll save TTAG time…………
4 inches into a human body is vitals.. Hell 2 inches is.. Maybe try these tests on some sort of animals breast in gelatin to see actual vital puncture results. I don’t know who you may be defending against but I don’t need the initial spread going deeper than 4-6 inches…
Hey guys, I’ve read the entire review and all comments. I’ve had experience with AR’s along with countless other American military weapons and foreign. I’m newly out of the USMC, I was a Machine gunner using the M-240, .50, and MK-19, also went recon after my first deployment, used many other weapons during that time. I love Using the AK and I believe that it is a reliable weapon through thick n’ thin. Is this Zastava, Serbian made AK worth the buy? I have a fair price along with picatinni rail system, and sling included with 4 steel mags and 2 p mags. Is this a weapon system that will fill my needs as a hunter, zombie slayer, and red dawn preparer?
My son’s been wanting a bolt action to experiment with longer range accuracy (up to 400 yds at our local range). I’d like to oblige on a limited budget basis. One proposal was to get a bolt action .22 rimfire as above. You get to practice “long range” at 100 to 200 yds at a much smaller entry fee. Maybe a .22 magnum instead to be more consistent at 200 yds. I’m very interested in your review of how well it shoots. Here’s hoping it’s a good rifle.
I enjoy TTAC and the comments people leave. However I do not like when we gun owners personally attack each others comments, due to differing opinions. I mean, who’s side are some of you guys on? Just MHO.
We need to take the 2nd amendment not necessarily as any particular founding father understood it (Jefferson, e.g., was no libertarian despite the mythos around him…using bills of attainder during the Revolutionary war, and while president trying to get journalists charged with treason who wrote against him [albeit through state laws and courts]….yeah….he and Madison expressly denied that any rights applied to non-citizens are those who would not swear to their vision)
Now anyways, if we use natural law as a guide and the “force of the words” I think we have more than one purpose behind the 2nd amendment
1. Personal self-protection. A crew served weapon, let alone a nuke, could not be justified under that end, but arguably a PDW or carbine assault rifle could.
2. Common defense against enemies foreign. Crew served weapons, and generally all conventional weapons would be justifiable under this, but insofar as it is “enemies foreign” under the direction of (to use Locke’s phrase) the “Supreme Government”
3. Common defense of a state against grievous Federal aggression, and in general the defense of any smaller community against aggressive and unjust acts by either a larger entity or similar. Here, there is a real danger if the “Supreme Government” has a monopoly on control. While any and all claims to war cannot be made by individuals as such, they can be made by a group for the sake of the real common good of the community (by common good I don’t mean what liberals mean in hijacking that word, but the good that is secured through community and truly beneficial to each member as a member, like security from invasion). Hence it is necessary “for the security of a free state” to have subsidiary bodies of militia, not controlled by a central authority.
One could argue that the 2nd amendment, under a “common right interpretation” (which, I hold, is true as well as an individual right being true, rather than in opposition) weakens the original Constitutional authority of the central authority, as the Constitution states that no State may keep any troops or ships of war in times of peace, without consent of Congress. If we look at historical arguments about that and the need for the 2nd amendment, contemporaries saw it as guaranteeing the ability of States to arm themselves, keep militias, originally undermined by the original Constitution. Hence California’s Naval Militia had ships of war (until impressed into Federal service during the World Wars)
Under this aspect, which goes beyond merely personal protection, there is a right to arms properly fitted for military ends.
However, certain weapons, certainly biological and I would argue chemical and nuclear are so heinous as to be wrong even in war. And even if one could construct a hypothetical just use (wiping out an invading fleet at sea?), such weapons would be unsuitable for defending one’s own turf.
I think the 2nd amendment as written does guarantee arms suitable for a militia, to each individual. Hence, as written it encompasses AAA guns and stingers.
Now I would hold that natural law does not go so far as that, since even if directed by a small community, militia activities are by nature not individual, and can only be just if for the common good and not private interest, and so it would be just that such armaments be restricted to public armories, etc. But in a less centralized fashion
“Off duty” or “on duty” doesn’t really matter, the cops have been shooting people at an ever increasing rate all over. Here in Alabama, just a few weeks ago, a young airman was shot by police after a minor traffic accident, for turning around with his WALLET in his hand. Why would a LEO even think there was a reason to have his weapon drawn, much less SHOOT someone, when responding to a fender bender?!?! The police are waaaaaaaay out of control. Just sayin’
I draw the line at WMDs. AAA, heavy machine guns, rocket launchers, artillery and the like; all ok. True WMDs: Nuclear, Biological and Chemical weapons are another thing altogether. I would rather that states didn’t have them either and while it would in no way concern me that people in my community have artillery or long range explosive warhead missiles I don’t think I’d be comfortable with uninspected privately held stock piles of NBC items. There is no safe place to utilize such weapons, and the smallest of accidents in handling them could result in cataclysmic outcomes.
While I’m opposed to virtually all regulation of small arms and most light weapons I think I would be comfortable with some sensible regulation of heavy weapons. Sensible in this case would be safety rules regarding where such could be utilized and perhaps some safe storage requirements for explosives, large stores of propellants and explosive/incendiary ammunition.
The Canadian couple busted at the border must have been in Yee’s ring. He’s already ratting to save his hide. Or not. But my speculation is as accurate as anyone’s else.
We need an article on cheap 1911-s, which one is the best? I mean the purdy 1911s are good too, but cheap is better.
I’ve never shot the Rock Islands but my Taurus PT1911 is solid. The finish gets scratched if you give it a dirty look but other than that it’s reliable and accurate. If you want to buy American the Springfield Milspec and Ruger SR1911 are pretty safe bets, it seems. Though they go for 600-700 they might be pushing one’s definition of “cheap.”
What’s with all the love for the cheap, forgien, sweatshop 1911s in the comments…
I’m not even a 1911 guy and the idea of a foreign made 1911 seems sacrilegious.
It’s Americana, not Philippinesana, or Braziliana… It’s an American icon, it should be made here, by fat, sweaty, American hands.
“Dude, that Harley made in the Philippines is bad ass! You should get one.”
“Not as bad ass as my Corvette made in Brazil…”
See how ridiculous that sounds… You 1911 guys freakin’ kill me.
Got one (compact version in .22LR) for my daughter as her first rifle. Of course, I had to check it out. I’ve only had it to the range once. Incidentally I also have a 10/22 (agree about the magazines… sweet), a M&P 15-22, and a Browning BL-22. Love me some rimfires (the ammo situation notwithstanding). Fortunately, I stocked up on ammo (including .22LR) for years before the current panic.
In my limited experience with the American Rimfire, I would declare it a “must have.” It’s that good. The trigger is the best I’ve experienced in a stock rimfire rifle.
It will also come in handy for teaching newbies to shoot.
You won’t be disappointed.
Sure, with one general proviso: No chemical/biological or nuclear ordnance (and I’ll go so far as to include depleted uranium in that qualification as well). Smoke and tracer rounds are ok, but inciendiary weapons (white phosphorus shells, napalm and the like) are also a hell no. Stuff that’s going to fly well afield of international treaties and basic human decency shouldn’t be available to civilians. Or nations, for that matter. Explosive warheads would be ok, with the same permits that dynamite and such require.
Obviously unless you have a lot of private land and/or a safe means of transport and/or have local permission to light one of these off, owning an artillery piece and actually using one are two different things. That’s not even considering the various financial barriers involved. So yeah, I’d be ok with private ownership of such a beast, given all the impracticalities very few are going to be in private hands.
Cool. Now where is my bolt action .22 takedown that I keep dreaming about? Make it happen, Ruger!
“… he ain’t stupid.”
Sorry, but yes, he is.
Agitator, I got out 4 years ago. The grunts I saw and worked with at the time all had metal plates, while I had ceramic plates
Just watch as the “Blue Wall” closes ranks.
In our modern times, to me the word arms should apply primarily to the basic tools of war that a person would possess for engaging in war with other individuals, and which would serve as their basic weapon if acting as part of a resistance to fight a tyrannical government or to fight an invading army. Such weapons have the ability to kill, but not to destroy.
So for example, rifles, handguns, shotguns, but not grenades, rocket launchers, crew-served weapons, etc…weapons such as AR-15s should most definitely be thought of as weapons of war, but what people need to remember is that war isn’t just conflict against a tyrannical government or conflict between nation states. It is something individuals do to one another as well. If someone is trying to kill you or inflict serious bodily harm on you (or your family), that person has declared a state of war on you, and as such, you have a fundamental right to possess the basic tools of war to make war back on that person. These tools of war are also what would be your primary weapon for, as said, fighting as part of a resistance to a tyrannical government or fighting an invading force.
Uh OH….I have an arsenal of “hateful” things. I have a full size training RPG even though its blue I guess they need to evacuate…hehe, full 100 round belt with links of spent M60 brass from the Army, 20mm rounds, a 40mm case, various other brass shells and swords.
Hell My doorbell button is a spent 44 mag round.
I have/own/shoot a 1911, a Springfield Loaded. I think any/every student of the gun, gun nut, gun fanatic, mildly interested gun owner, occasional shooter … must have at least one 1911 in his/her collection.
You guys saw this response?? Brilliant! Absolutely. Brilliant.
I have watched it five times now because it is so great.
“There are two G’s in ‘Bugger off!”
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/3250597724001/stuart-varney-bugger-off-piers-morgan/#sp=show-clips
Well, normal shooters are reporting issues including out of battery discharges.
Too bad Nicks review was just a hit piece and didn’t find any of the real problems.
I still like the concept but I will wait for the 2nd Edition to arrive in stores.
And they wonder why we don’t take them seriously…
The beauty of predicting a 1% increase in crime assuming nothing else changes over the course of 89 years is that there’s no risk of ever being proven wrong.
RIP ammo … simply another clever marketing ploy to treat Projectile Dysfunction. I guess for a Male Enhancement product, it might make one feel a little better.
What is that Chinese cop carrying?
This is why we can’t have nice things…..
Not sure I want an LED in my face while I’m shooting but it’s a cool idea for a full-sized gun and they seem to have thought it through.
I wonder which LCR owner will try and get one first… because tactics.
Complete non starter for me if I’m not able to get spare followers.