Hirshman: The Problem With American Democracy Is White Men With Guns

Antifa riots nationwide

People move past storefronts that have broken glass doors during the Justice for George Floyd Philadelphia Protest on Saturday, May 30, 2020. (AP Photo/Matt Rourke)

The union representing Minneapolis Police Officers has long felt that the democratically elected mayor, Jacob Frey, should not be the boss of them. Across the country, armed insurgent demonstrators have expressed similar feelings about their governors: In Michigan, a gang with assault weapons drove the state senators to abandon the capitol. Turns out, in uniform or out, white men with guns can pose a real problem for old-fashioned representative government. In attitudes and political loyalties, a scary number of the people professing to defend the government look more like the problem than the solution.

– Linda Hirshman in Minnesota and Michigan show that we are living in a Hobbesian state of nature

comments

  1. avatar Matthew the Oilman says:

    Who is this person and why should I care?

    1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      Expousing Marxist ideology, next fruitcake.

    2. avatar Dude says:

      Typical Washington Post garbage. Leftists are pissed that a few of their own may be arrested for rioting when right wingers were allowed to just walk around with *gasp* guns!

      From the article:
      “Why weren’t the officers of the law deployed more effectively when armed opponents of stay-at-home orders chased elective officeholders out of town? Where were they when protesters gathered, from coast to coast, in blatant disregard of the quarantine orders?”
      “In a state of nature, without collective institutions like government, people would be — as the defiant Michiganders are — scary.”

      When reading the Post or the Times be sure to check the comments if they’re open. Here’s one:

      “As for the radical, right-wing armed “militias”, they must be met with opposing force. When there is a reasonable government in place, federal troops need to be on call the face them. Give them 30 seconds to lay down their assault rifles and other weapons, if they don’t, shoot them.”

      These people are literally insane.

      1. avatar Void says:

        Weed + public school + Twitter = most of the people who still bother to consume news media for anything beyond entertainment.

    3. avatar Debbie W. says:

      Dear linda you ignorant washington compost slut,

      Can you and your demented race baiting democRat ilk please make up your minds? First your democRat Party singles out and concocts laws to keep firearms out of the hands of Freed Slaves and onward to Jim Crow which proves your Gun Control Agenda is Rooted in Racism and Genocide. Now you and your democRat Party ilk are zeroing in on White Americans with your same old worn out racist Gun Control sht that your party imposed on Black Americans all because of their “Black Skin.” Now you and your ilk simply dusted off your old Jim Crow Playbook and erased “Black” and inserted “White.” That’s what the third reich did too except they took your Jim Crow Playbook and erased “Black” and inserted “Jew.”

      So I ask you linda on this Day of Our Lord Sunday May 30, 2020 to make up your tiny pathetic race baiting wishy washy democRat mind or gfy.

      Your NRA Life Member Pal,
      Debbie W.

      1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

        Spot on.

    4. avatar W says:

      Retired professor of women’s studies from Brandeis.

    5. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

      “Who is this person and why should I care?”

      It’s called “Know the enemy”…

  2. avatar Mad Max says:

    It’s white (and some minority) men and women with guns that are the last line of defense against the lawlessness of Leftists out to destroy our Constitutional Republic.

    It’s not race, it’s Leftist ideology, that’s the threat.

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      Thank you, Mad. I was scrolling down here to provide a correction to the author’s term “American Democracy”, but you beat me to it by using the proper term “Constitutional Republic”.

  3. avatar Imayeti says:

    Nothing new. Started back in 1775.

    1. avatar Craig in IA says:

      I’d put forth that there are not nearly enough white (and other color) men with guns and even fewer who actually know how to use them to preserve our republic. Of course I’ll include women in the mix as well.

      1. avatar Mad Max says:

        I think there are plenty. At least 9.84 million.

        Compared to law enforcement (660,000) and military (1.8 million – active and reserves), they are a formidable force.

        1. avatar Craig in IA says:

          “I think there are plenty. At least 9.84 million.” I think you’d better check your math on gun ownership in the US… 2018 DOJ estimates over 100 million US firearms owners, more than 19 million with concealed carry permits. Of course there are many more than that when one considers “Constitutional” carry and people who just choose to carry without being concerned with having a permit.

          I’m thinking we need more “on the streets”.

  4. avatar Miner49er says:

    Well, is there any evidence that white people have been responsible for systemically killing minorities?

    “June 17, 2015: Charleston Church Massacre
    Nine African American churchgoers were gunned down inside a church in an act of white supremacist terrorism.

    Aug. 5, 2012: The Sikh Temple of Wisconsin Massacre
    A white supremacist shot and killed six members of the Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin.

    Nov. 3, 1979: Greensboro Massacre
    Five people were killed when the Ku Klux Klan and Nazis fired on an anti-Klan rally in Greensboro, North Carolina.

    Feb. 8, 1968: Orangeburg Massacre
    Two years before the Kent State murders, 28 students were injured and three were killed in Orangeburg, SC — most shot in the back by the state police while involved in a peaceful protest.

    May 30, 1937: Memorial Day Massacre
    On Memorial Day, Chicago Police Department shot and killed ten unarmed demonstrators in Chicago.

    March 21, 1937: Ponce Massacre
    Police shot peaceful protesters, killing 19 and wounding over 200 others in Ponce, Puerto Rico.

    Jan. 1, 1923: Rosewood Massacre
    The Rosewood Massacre was the white supremacist destruction of a Black town and the murder of many of its residents.

    May 31, 1921: Tulsa Massacre
    In what became known as the Tulsa Massacre, white supremacists destroyed a thriving Black community in Oklahoma.

    Nov. 2, 1920: The Ocoee Massacre
    More than 50 African Americans killed in the Ocoee Massacre after going to vote in Florida.

    Nov. 22, 1919: Bogalusa Labor Massacre
    The Bogalusa Labor Massacre was an attack on interracial labor solidarity.

    Sept. 30, 1919: Elaine Massacre
    Black farmers were massacred in Elaine, Arkansas for their efforts to fight for better pay and higher cotton prices. A white mob shot at them, and the farmers returned fire in self-defense. Estimates range from 100-800 killed, and 67 survivors were indicted for inciting violence.

    July 27, 1919: Riot in Chicago
    Sparked by a white police officer’s refusal to make an arrest in the murder of a Black teenager, Chicago’s Red Summer violence lasted almost a week. At least 38 people were killed and thousands of Black homes were looted and damaged.

    July 19, 1919: White Mobs in Uniform Attack African Americans — Who Fight Back — in Washington, D.C.
    White mobs, incited by the media, attacked the African American community in Washington, D.C., and African American soldiers returning from WWI.

    Aug. 14, 1908: Springfield Massacre
    Springfield Massacre was committed against African Americans by a mob of about 5,000 white people in Springfield, Illinois.

    Nov. 10, 1898: Wilmington Massacre
    The interracial, elected Reconstruction era local government was deposed in a coup d’etat in Wilmington, North Carolina.”

    1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

      Why are white women trying to stop other white women from getting guns??

      1. avatar Dude says:

        You’re assuming these people think logically. They don’t. It’s all about their ideology, and part of that is gunz bad!

      2. avatar RGP says:

        Never try to understand how a bimbot thinks.

    2. avatar tdiinva says:

      This week in minority neighborhoods in Chicago:. 21 KIA, 88 WIA.

      You were saying?

      1. avatar MyName says:

        Exactly. The number one killer of young black men in America today is, young black men. Not a statement about race, merely a statement of fact.

    3. avatar The Truth About Miner49er's List says:

      Of course the numbers of whites routinely killed, robbed, and raped by blacks is orders of magnitude beyond your little list. As is the number of blacks killed by blacks. But you wouldn’t want to talk about that. You will post no list of black on white attacks or Muslim on non Muslim or of blacks who died at the hands of blacks. Blacks kill more of their own in Chicago every year than all of the massacres on your list combined.

      Your list is also largely filled with anachronistic ancient history except for the top two incidents which were lone nuts. There was at least one black on white interracial reprisal for the Charleston Church Massacre, committed against people who had nothing to do with it and did not support it.

      It would be just as wrong to blame all blacks for the crimes of a few as it is to blame all whites for the crimes of the few. But you are blaming all whites and by doing you are so forcing whites to respond in kind and driving the spread of racism that you claim to want to stop.

      Unless and until black people get over their co dependent victim complex we will continue to have race related problems.

      Now add communist agitators to the mix. Stalin may be long dead but his plan to bring down America by fomenting racial division and having socialists and communists take over education and the media is now reaching it’s conclusion. Communist agitators are driving the ongoing riots, not angry black people. Those angry black people participating are dupes and shills being used by their democratic slave masters.

      The biggest danger to black people is other black people.

      1. avatar jeff says:

        As the father of a black man and a black woman and guardian of two children of said woman I can state that it is not your race so much but the way you are raised. There are too many children and young adults left to fend for themselves. Their parents are absent. These young people find Jessie Jackson and his ilk to look up to and they are lost. Identity politics permeates and destroys the fabric of their society. Raise someone to believe they are a victim and that will never change and they will be continually looking for an excuse for their poor choices instead of making good choices.

        1. avatar Dude says:

          “…it is not your race so much but the way you are raised.”

          Jeff, that’s it in a nutshell. Unfortunately, Leftism has helped to decimate the family unit which has only led to more problems. Leftism has also cheered on the decline of moral values in this country. A moral person would not take part in dragging a man out into the street and beating him to death. A moral person would not want to destroy someone’s property.

        2. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

          Oh yes, all leftism. Institutional racism, urban flight, war on drugs and mandatory sentancing, etc. have had nothing to do with it.

        3. avatar Dude says:

          “Oh yes, all leftism. Institutional racism, urban flight, war on drugs and mandatory sentancing, etc. have had nothing to do with it.”

          Correct.

      2. avatar Dude says:

        “But you are blaming all whites and by doing you are so forcing whites to respond in kind and driving the spread of racism that you claim to want to stop.”

        Divide and conquer. Division and hate are the Left’s greatest tools.

      3. avatar Miner49er says:

        “Your list is also largely filled with anachronistic ancient history”

        I regret to inform you that history did not start when you joined Facebook.

        America is the sum total of our history over the past 250 years.

        To ignore the hundreds of thousands of black Americans who were maimed and killed by white people over the past 250 years is to ignore the actual history that underpants our society today.

        But your history probably only goes back to when you joined Twitter so it’s easy to understand why you just don’t get the big picture.

        1. avatar Someone says:

          Nice race baiting.
          If that’s your idea of systematical killing, the system is very inefficient and slow. Compare it with interruption, so loved by leftists, now there is a very efficient system to kill minorities.
          If you care about a big picture, it should also show how black on black and even black on white crime dwarfs anything whites did to blacks.

        2. avatar DinWA says:

          “…underpants our society…”

          LoL

        3. avatar Unrepentant Libertarian says:

          So you are going back 250 years to pull up problems that far outdate anyone who is alive today. You stated only a couple of examples that are current. Most of the killing of blacks by whites in recent history were done by white DEMOCRATS! There will always be someone who will attack and kill innocent people on each of the political extremes. Satan controls the extremes and wants his(?) followers to destroy humanity- so quit listening to him and hating others that are different from yourselves. Quit passing on false statements about folks and trying to instill hate against innocent parties!! The amount of true white racism is very small and is blown out of proportion by the leftist establishment. For every modern example of white-on-black racism there are ten examples of black-on-white racism that were ignited by leftists.

    4. avatar Chris T in KY says:

      Btw
      As a socialiat white man Miner you left out an important fact. Racist gun control prevented black people from being able to acquire guns to defend themselves against these white racist mobs.

      Racist gun control that a socialist white man like yourself has historically supported.

      1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

        Also.
        Having studied all of these riots including the Chicago 1919 Riot. I can tell you that there is a report of a black man using a Thompson submachine gun to defend his neighborhood against the angry white mob.

        So yes it’s good to have a machine gun. Just as its good to have an AR15.
        (Smile)

      2. avatar Miner49er says:

        You are correct, for many years the government, along with community organizations like the KKK, have opposed the idea of minority firearms ownership.

        But I can tell you, the Republicans did not boycott the clan rally’s, they were right there with their white brothers. To believe the Republicans in the south stayed home is contrary to historical fact.

        1. avatar rt66paul says:

          During the heyday of Jim Crow, there were very few Southern Republicans – they were considered Damnyankees. The 3 Democratic presidents from the south are what changed the solid south into Republican. LBJ, Carter and Clinton were traitors to the South and divided this country.

    5. avatar ETA says:

      You realize that in the last 40 years that “white on black” murder is profoundly lower on a per capita to per capita basis than “black on white” murder”? African Americans are 14% of society yet not killing 14% of whites, but 20% of whites murdered.. that is a near 50% elevation of what random results should be. And blacks and commit 73% of mass shootings. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/23/us/americas-overlooked-gun-violence.html

      My small city as had five mass murders of four or more people in the past ten years. Every one of them committed by a black male, and 62% of the victims Caucasian. My city is 48% black, 40% white and 11% Hispanic and of our last 300 murders, only six have been committed by non Hispanic Caucasians. In my city of the past 112 Caucasians murdered, 109 were murdered by non Caucasians.

      Now I don’t judge an individual by the color of their skin, but YOU seem to be. You are assigning blame of murder committed by a person 100 years ago to individuals of the same race 100 years later!. On population cohorts, which is different than the individual, the FACT is the entire elevation of US murder commission over international averages is driven by black males cohort, at 7% of population, committing 52% of all murder at an 20 year objective data attested rate.

      By the way, of the 3,000 US counties, exactly 38 are responsible for the elevation of US murder rates compared to Canada or Australia. Every one of those 38 run by progressive Democrats.

      Why in the modern era are progressive Democrats and their constituents 18 TIMES more likely to be murderers?

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        “You realize that in the last 40 years“

        So you’re arbitrary historical timeline is only 40 years long?

        You do realize white people have been in the Americas for over 500 years, right?
        And slavery as a point of a gun was legal for the first 350 years of white man’s occupancy of North America.

        And America as existed as a country for over 250 years.

        Your inability to see the big picture of history will really limit your ability to understand current events.

        1. avatar John Hull says:

          Don’t you dare try to put all this on white men. Native american tribes had been warring on each other and taking slaves from other tribes for thousands of years before European ever set foot in North America. Slavery as an institution has been part of human history since the beginning of civilization. It still goes on today, and is not limited to blacks by any stretch. America was one of the very last to permit slavery and one of the first to abolish it. In fact, the first black slave owned in America was owned by a black man in New England. As far as gun control goes, the first formal gun control laws were passed in New York to prevent Irish immigrants from getting guns to protect themselves from slum landlords in the 1850s. Blacks and other minorities were added after the Civil War. The fault for almost all of this stuff can be laid at the feet of the Democrat Party throughout US history. Liberalism/socialism is what is destroying this country, right up to and including today’s rioting. It is high time to turn out the National Guard nationwide and crush this anarchy and terrorism.

        2. avatar Grumpy 49 says:

          After DEMOCRATS passed the so called “Slave Catcher” law in the 1830’s, they found that the Free Blacks in the North didn’t think they should be “returned” to Slavery. To prevent them from fighting back, DEMOCRATS passed the first gun laws in the 1840’s to prevent Blacks from having guns. Any Blacks caught with a gun was in serious trouble.

          These same DEMOCRATS pushed gun laws in the 1870″s for the same reason. Seems their “Voter Education Trainers”, aka the KKK, didn’t like to have Blacks refuse to be “educated”. See “Twelve Years A Slave”, and “The Free State Of Jones”, as these movies are factual representatives of what happened.

    6. avatar Mad Max says:

      That’s a small list compared to the black-on-black violence committed annually in Chicago. The number of black men killed by white cops is tiny by comparison.

      Until government and civil society in Leftist cities decide to get tough on all crime, it will continue.

      The problem is Leftism not racism.

    7. avatar LampOfDiogenes says:

      Hmm. I read a long rant, even longer on assertions, and woefully short of . . . facts.

      In many of these instances you cite as proof of racist actions, the race of neither the “peaceful protestors” nor the police was specified.

      You assert intentions to each side, without evidence.

      A cop trying to quell a riot MAY:

      * be racist – but not acting out of that motivation
      * not be racist, but simply trying to maintain order and, oh, I dunno, TRYING TO STOP RIOTERS FROM TORCHING BUILDINGS
      * I am willing to be big money that many of the police in the more recent instances were themselves “persons of color”
      * Equally, in many of the protests some substantial number (in many cases a majority or a HUGE majority) were white.

      But don’t let any of that interrupt your narrative. I stand second to no one in my distrust of the government. But, what is that old line? “Never attribute to malice what can easily be explained by incompetence.” Somethin’ like that.

      Your narrative is old, busted, fact-free and almost as worn out as that race card you keep playing. But feel free to go ahead – it just emphasizes what a brainwashed idiot you are.

    8. avatar Texican says:

      I think you confused systemically for systematically. In your examples there are some that are separated by 40 years! If something were happening systematically it would have many more incidents and they would happen more frequently. The Charleston shooting was 5 years ago! What happened to Mr. Floyd was atrocious but if it were systematic this type of event would happen every month or every week.

      1. avatar Dude says:

        The theory of systemic racism was blown apart when a black man was elected president of this country. The Left clings to it anyway because it benefits them politically.

    9. avatar J. Dice says:

      So… nothing at all in the last five years and a lot of ancient history. Doesn’t lend a lot of weight to your argument.

  5. avatar Grumpy 49 says:

    Funny – It was mainly White Men with guns that broke away from England.
    Funny – It was mainly Conservative White Men with guns that freed the Slaves.
    Funny – It was DEMOCRATS that passed laws (1840’s & 1870’s) to prevent certain people (Afro Americans) from owning guns.
    Funny – It was DEMOCRATS that founded the KLAN, which killed (Conservative) Whites as well as Afro Americans.
    Funny – It was the DEMOCRAT “Jim Crow” Laws that was the model for the NAZI racial purity laws.
    Funny – DEMOCRATS use the NAZI Gun Laws (Which were based on the DEMOCRAT 1870’s Southern Gun Laws) as the 1964 U.S. Gun Law. to the point it was a word for word match to Senator Dodd Senior’s copy of those laws. Army translation copy took almost 20 years to obtain via FOIA request to prove that point.

    And people worry about Conservative White Men???

  6. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    This racist feminazi gun Grabber has no credibility. She would ensure that women are raped, murdered, kidnapped, never to be found again. She should go talk to some of her Democrat elected officials. Who make it more difficult for sexual assault victims to get guns for protection.

    This woman is a laughable joke writing a book about “fighting against sexual assault” As a man I’ll tell a woman to go get a gun. This feminazi will tell a woman to find a man, in police uniform, with a gun.
    And waiting 12 to 18 minutes for your man to arrive and save you. And most likely a white man in police uniform.

  7. avatar Dude says:

    CNN headquarters gets vandalized by the violent mob.
    CNN reporting: What we’re seeing is mostly peaceful protests.

    Anifa thugs are setting fire to buildings and attacking the police.
    CNN reporting: It looks like the white supremacists have shown up.

  8. avatar tdiinva says:

    If CIS white men with guns are a problem then why are many inner city minority neighborhoods war zones and where (mostly) CIS white men who gather with guns peaceful?

  9. avatar Prndll says:

    It’s all a matter of perspective. For some, the problem is black people with guns. for others, it’s hispanics with guns. I tend to think the only reason for any focus to be on white people with guns is simply due to the US having more whites within it’s population. The central theme around it all is ‘guns’. The more people in general that have them, the further the left go from reality.

    The truth is that life gets better as the number of responsible gun owners go up. It gets worse as the number goes down. Regardless of race, gender, or income level. There are other factors of course but this is what I see.

    1. avatar Dude says:

      I think it’s more of a right wing vs left wing philosophy. The media chose to vilify peaceful gun toting protesters simply because they are right wing. At the same time, the media has been trying their hardest to put the violent, criminal “protesters” in the best light possible simply because they’re left wing. It isn’t about reporting, it’s about pushing a narrative.

  10. avatar former water walker says:

    Still think .gov is coming to confiscate your GUNS? They can’t even protect their po-leece station or vehicles. I’m not a problem-I’m a solution. So happy I got this AR!

  11. avatar strych9 says:

    We’re in a Hobbesian state of nature? ROFL. Dude has no idea what that actually means.

    1. avatar Dude says:

      In her dreams.
      From the article: “And the elected government must have a meaningful monopoly on the use of force. Otherwise it cannot protect us from each other.”

      She must also want the government to have a monopoly on freedom of speech.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        The thing here is that the government does, in fact, have a meaningful monopoly on force in these circumstances. They’ve just generally refused to use it.

        The thing that people don’t really seem to get about that statement, from a Lockeian perspective, is that the government has that monopoly as long as they use it appropriately. If they don’t use it appropriately then that’s what the 2A is for, a revocation of consent to said monopoly.

        1. avatar Dude says:

          Good point.

  12. avatar WI Patriot says:

    Somebody will grab hold of her(?) and beat her to within an inch of her life, then she’ll wonder where all the “white men with guns” are…

  13. avatar Hankus says:

    Linda Hirshman, libtard feminist douche.

  14. avatar Eric Colvard says:

    When a “representative government” begins to fear my gun, it’s time for them to think twice about how they’re violating the Constitution, infringing upon my rights, and threatening liberty.

  15. avatar Richard Coon says:

    AS a white man with lots and lots of guns, I resent that remark.

  16. avatar N Texas says:

    Truth is people kill , people … Black kill black , White kill white , N vis a versa , STILL NO EXCUSE TO ROIT , BURN , AND LOOT , BEAT UP OTHER PEOPLE , BRING SHAME TO JUSTICE FOR FLOYD .

  17. avatar MADDMAXX says:

    Yet those “white men” with guns did NOT set fire to police vehicles or loot and burn local businesses… If you really want white men with guns to be a threat to the progressive liberal idea of “democracy” I’m pretty sure there are a handful who would gladly fulfil your desires…

  18. avatar Chief Censor says:

    Well, the country has a lot of white men and they have traditions handed down by their fathers.

    Everywhere you turn there is some corrupt person trying to move away from human rights and voluntary governance. This is not new to the European way in this land, which is why the 2nd Amendment exists.

    Power to the people.

  19. avatar burley says:

    AMERICA IS NOT A DEMOCRACY!
    It should never be a democracy. No nation retains its liberty if democracy is applied.
    I sure hope this is the end times, cause otherwise this is all just some stupid shit we have to live through.

  20. avatar DrDKW says:

    Well, the plague is ragin’, cities are burnin’, got my AR, and I’m watchin’ ‘Return to Mayberry’!

  21. avatar Jimmy Beam says:

    This is what happens when you let women vote.

  22. avatar kap says:

    Dyed in the wool Democrat, like all other fruit cakes thinks they are better than the deplorable s in fly over country, Let me see their agenda; Kill babies, destroy the 2A amendment, promote fatherless homes, favor illegal Aliens over their own people, promote China unfair trade deals, spy on citizens, weaponize the bureaucracies, IRA, FBI, CIA, ATF! against us the people, yup going too jump right on that band wagon

Write a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

button to share on facebook
button to tweet
button to share via email