common sense gun control is intellectually lazy
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Contemporary legislators have the hubris to believe that the Founders hadn’t envisioned any kind of technological advances in firearm technology. It’s an argument tantamount to claiming that free-speech protections are not operable because James Madison couldn’t foresee the incredible speed with which information can be disseminated on the Internet.

Not only did legislators in the late 18th-century witness the advent and adoption of long-range Pennsylvania rifles — ones that could fire at 300 yards with decent precision rather than 50 yards with none — but they were likely acquainted with the existence of weapons such as air-powered repeating rifles that could fire .46-caliber lead balls about 40 times before losing muzzle velocity.

No Founder ever said, “hey maybe we made a mistake.” In fact, in the subsequent 150 years — through the rise of the revolver, the repeating rifle, and the gas-powered automatic weapons — no one ever challenged the idea that the Second Amendment protected anything but an individual right. Heller, the decision that so infuriated leftists, simply reaffirmed what had been obvious to everyone since 1789.

– David Harsanyi in The Founders Wanted You to Own an AR-15

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  1. Free speech and the internet…They no longer go hand in hand. It isn’t enough that 90% of the news media has come out as democrat party activists. Now the most powerful companies in the world are going to decide what we’re allowed to talk about. They’re working overtime to hide negative information about Biden. Is it any wonder that they support Joe Biden? Who’s the wannabe authoritarian again?

    • I agree, the argument that the 1st amendment is not being restricted because of technology advancements therefore the same extends to the 2nd is being shot to hell by social media and the MSM as we speak.

      • “Contemporary legislators have the hubris to believe that the Founders hadn’t envisioned any kind of technological advances in firearm technology. It’s an argument tantamount to claiming that free-speech protections are not operable because James Madison couldn’t foresee the incredible speed with which information can be disseminated on the Internet.”

        Contemporary legislators are biased. You cannot just fixate on muskets vs the AR15. When you factor in Black Powder was used in those muskets and the explosive making attributes of Black Powder there is no hubris.

        • “Contemporary legislators have the hubris to believe that the Founders hadn’t envisioned any kind of technological advances in firearm technology. ”

          Those legislators hate the founding fathers. They despite the Constitution. They abhor the Republic, and revile the Americans who live here.

      • You might be interested to know that Wikipedia has Fascism a Far right activity. Which is of course wrong.
        Even the Nazi’s were leftist, socialist, and Adolf was head of the socialist party.

        • Fascism is far right only in Europe, where everything is Left. If you’re not left of Lenin, you’re a right-winger over there.

          My daughter’s high-school history teacher (an Irish expat who didn’t like socialism very much) ditched the usual straight line of left/right for a circle, with anarchy at one pole and totalitarianism at the other, and you could go left or right to get to either place. Still didn’t fix the misidentification of fascism as “right,” but at least did a much better job than American academics.

        • IMO, the meaning of Left and Right isn’t the same. Left vs Right in that sense means Stratification, or as Dr. Jordan Peterson puts it: hierarchies. But Conservatives don’t think that way at all… Left vs Right for a Conservative is Authoritarianism vs Individual Rights, so Conservatives see both Communism and Fascism as Left wing tyranny.

          Big Tech is Fascist (and the Bidens and Clintons are clearly exploitative capitalist), the AOC/Bernie people are Socialist/Communist, and the American Right wants Individual freedom and to be left alone without excessive government regulation.

        • Fascism is the “right” wing of the “left” wing. It is still a socialist model, the principal difference being its easy relationships with the concentrated wealth of powerful oligarchs. Instead of seizing their wealth, fascists invite them into the government and use their power and inventiveness to further fascist goals.

          When you read the political history of fascism, you realize that Mussolini was a genius. This is why the left hates hims so much. National Socialism in Germany was a version of Italian Fascism and allowed oligarchs to retain their vast properties. This included, GM, who owned the Adam Open Werks throughout WW2. The last royalty payment was to to the GM office in Switzerland in April, 1945.

      • The whole notion that politics is one dimensional and along a right-left line is absurd and problem causing.

        • Yes even the most primative peoples accept that when a right wing and a left wing cannot get along civilly the bird can’t fly. (note I didn’t say agree)

    • I’m not sure what you mean? Free speech has NEVER been hand-in-hand with the internet.

      From day one, it has been all about connecting to someone else’s computers, servers, and terminals. That has never changed.

    • Free speech has NEVER been hand in hand with the internet. The company that owns the servers has the right to control them. Just as you have the right to control your stuff.

      • They could have, but they mostly didn’t. The internet used to be the wild, wild west. It still is in a way, but that’s changing.

        Meanwhile, twitter is busy suspending Trump campaign and White House staff accounts because the tweets might hurt the Biden campaign. Where are the democrats? What happened to election interference being a “threat to our democracy?” Of course they didn’t really mean that. It’s all a game.

        • The people that run Twitter are king twitts. Suspending accounts never made any difference one way or the other to my vote. The world would be a happier place if more people looked at it that way.

        • I think it matters because it will only get worse. Look at the trend. We’re heading in the direction of CCP style censorship. We’ll only be allowed to discuss and share approved topics.

        • You are correct. We are headed that way. Because too many people are giving away their right to vote. In this case…to Twitter.

          I am a free man. I decided for myself who gets my vote and why. Making the whole thing dependent on Twitter gives them power over me.

        • I’m not sure what you mean by that. In the future, people will be making “informed” decisions for themselves based on “approved” information made available to them. We’re at the beginning stages of this. Do you think it should be nipped in the bud or ignored? For the record I don’t personally engage in facebook or twitter, but apparently many people do.

        • I wouldn’t know a Twitt if it Bitt me on my Asss. And my Face is not in the Book. And I like it that way, it’s not going to change. Why in the world people pay any attention to the trolls and self appointed kingmakers online, who are universally MORONS, I don’t understand, I guess I have failed to adequately educate myself on this billionaires’ bullshit.

        • In terms of where people get a substantial amount of their news information social media accounts for the following (compared to TV):

          18-29yo 36% (16%)
          30-49yo 22% (36%)
          50-64yo 14% (65%)
          65+yo 8% (81%)

          Overall 18% of adult Americans rely on social media for “most” of their news. These people are also statistically both less engaged and less knowledgeable on any given topic of the day.

          Note that in every ago demographic a combination of TV and social media accounts for a majority.

        • THAT is what I’m talking about. Too many people are setting themselves up to be manipulated and lied to. It goes hand in hand with being delusional.

        • “The problem is, more and more people will get their news this way in the future.”

          Is this a problem? That’s a valid question considering how many people take the idiot box as gospel and it’s quite obvious to anyone with two firing neurons that the “news” on TV is mostly horseshit, and dangerous horseshit at that.

        • In my opinion, people who rely on social media messaging as their source of the honest and balanced news information that will affect their lives somewhere down the road are lazy. Plain and simple.

          I’ve never tweeted, have not used Facebook and read several different internet sources daily as well as glean info from TV and actually communicate with my elected officials fairly often to come to my own conclusions. To rely on social media from sources I do not know nor can verify, for my life is about like listening to a radio-based weather report from a station 600 miles away to decide what I need to wear when I go outside.

          For God’s sake, look out the window once in a while…

        • There is a reason that so many “polls” are reported every”news cycle”. The reason is the same one as “calling” state results(eastern states) before the rest of the states have closed their polling places. The reason is to discourage voters when “their” candidate is behind in the counting especially in the west (left) coast.
          Every poll has slo-joe ahead…ahead only in select areas. Do you feel manipulated???

    • The Libertarians say you have not lost any freedom of speech. Only the government can deny you your 1st amendment rights. They say a private company can turn off your internet account. Or they can turn off the Presidents internet account. Its not a violation of civil rights. They say.

      Pass that “joint” around to the next person. That is “your real” freedom.

    • @No One of Consequence,
      I thought the same.

      And, at this point, good luck finding one to buy, or the ammo to go with it.
      If you dont want to disappoint the founding fathers, buy any fire arm you can find, in your price point, and with ammo you can use.
      Be practical about it.

      Heck, I am looking at black powder rifles, more for S&Gs but never a bad idea to have something else.
      “Why, no, Mr. Power-hungry Leftist fascist, I dont own any rifles but this here old muzzle loading deer rifle!”

      • Then if you find one, be prepared for a 50% markup and no ammo. If in the market for a long gun, a pump shotgun would probably be the way to go in the current situation.

        • Semi-auto because in the popular imagination a defense shotgun has that racking sound. My LGS has way more semiautos than pumps. However, yhey are twice the price or more.

        • I was thinking along the lines of affordability, but that makes sense that those have already been picked up.

        • @tdiinva
          Last night in an episode of Lovecraft Country someone managed to make the racking sound with a side-by-side!

      • I haven’t seen primers in while. I am down to my last thousand of each type. I have only been checking online but for at least five months now. Only checked in LGSs two or three times.I bought a lot of things in Jan – May but it didn’t occur to me that primers would be the bottleneck. I have had little trouble with cases, bullets or powder though.

  2. Strangely the article called “Don’t Disappoint the Founding Fathers…Buy an AR-15 Rifle Today” has zero AR-15s in the accompanying stock photo. Looks like a couple of AK types and a Dragunov?

    Note the quoted article does in fact show AR-15 rifles.

  3. For many that would be…”Don’t Disappoint the Founding Fathers…Buy Another AR-15 Rifle Today.” If you cannot afford the rifle purchase a receiver.

    Side note…little man enuf comes on this forum and boasts about buying guns and ammo after his 2016 vote went to hilliary rotten clintoon and to make matters worse he turns calls the POTUS “excrement.” By his own words enuf is a self serving pos who over the last 4 years has enjoyed the freedoms to say and do the things he boasts about doing all off the backs of every American who cast their 2016 votes for Donald John Trump.
    Today enuf continues his slander and libel of the POTUS in a despicable attempt to sway gullible voters. Bottom line. enuf is a self serving marxist democRat lint licking pos who tries to talk the talk only to stab you and your 2A Rights in the back.

    TRUMP/PENCE 2020.

    • He doesn’t even own guns. He may not even be American. He or she, or it, is just one of many leftist troll farm members barely over the intelligence and effectiveness of a spam bot. Most people here have come to see through his BS, just like Vlad, Miner, and Chief. They may also all be the same troll farm guy.

      • I’ve posted that the standard response to this entire group of TTAG trolls needs to be GFY, ESAD……..
        A few are just “time bandits”, copy/pasting reams of leftard “spin”, to advance the demoKKKRats narrative.
        TRUMP/PENCE 2020 trolls!
        Enjoy the TDS.

      • If he does they have to be Fudd guns. He said yesterday about like S&W snubbie revolvers.

        Here’s my list of approved Fudd guns.

        Pistols: revolvers in .38 Spl. SAA in .45 Colt. M1911 in .45 ACP.

        Rifles. Pre-1964 Winchester model 70 in .270 or .30-06. Remingtons are too modern. Or a sporterized M1903 or M17, also in .30-06.

        Shotguns: double-barreled side-by-side. 12g. Over-unders are just too modern.

        • Here’s my list of approved Fudd guns.

          Don’t know who appointed you czar of FUDD recognition but I happen to own a couple of 1911s in 45 AND a 38 Special, it happens to be the most powerful handgun my wife will shoot and since a problem with tendons in her left hand make it painful to operate the slide on a semi-auto I was happy to buy that gun for her, I also have TWO side by sides in 12 ga.. one is a Coach gun and the other is a very special little (emphasis on the little) piece that can be carried in a modified western style holster and is easily concealed if needed… Anyway, for a person who claims to be from a country that doesn’t even allow it’s citizens to own a modern sporting rifle ( I also have several of those in various calibers) you are quite the opinionated individual…

          • You don’t take sarcasm well. But I was imagining enuf’s collection.

            Maybe you don’t DO sarcasm very well…. Spent 8 days in Sydney (Kings Cross) in 1969, had a great time, people were honest, accommodating (to a young Marine on R&R), respectful and fun… Beautiful women, some of the greatest legs on the planet, Bondi Beach at midnight and that accent, damn…. Actually got drunk on two cans (warm) of Fosters (big ass cans) in Darwin and slept through the rest of the flight to Sydney… It was October, Springtime… Always wanted to go back, never made it, oh well… Anyway, work on your delivery, add quotation marks or maybe use HIS instead MY (list of approved FUDD guns)… Just sayin, I’m not the only one that missed it…

    • enuf is a psyop agent. He’s probably a Fed, one of many monitoring this forum. Whatever stories he tells are flat out bullsh*t.

      • You folks would be hilarious if you were not so very desperately wrong. I’d been a Republican since Nixon in 1968. Volunteered on Reagan’s first campaign. Quit the party over that dumbass Bush the Lesser being nominated and have been an independent ever since.

        I’m on the side of these folks:

        More great ideas here:

        You are a bunch of cultists believing that you are in some sort of secret majority that is about to enjoy a landslide victory.

        I do not know who will win, I make no predictions.

        I do know that you are in for a disappointment in the final numbers. Which, because you are a small delusional sect of the conservative population, you will spin up lies about to give yourselves comfort.

        You made a mistake, you supported Trump for the 2016 GOP nomination. An obvious and incredibly stupid mistake and you simply cannot bear it.

        • Haha! Anthony Scaramucci was the biggest gung ho Trump supporter around…until he lost his job. Now he’s the biggest Trump hater around. Totally sincere guy, right? What conservative policies are they fighting for by electing Joe Biden? Joe’s been a U.S. Senator and V.P. for 47 years, but Trump ruined America in less than four? That’s a good one! Which policy did that again? It’s all about emotion. There’s a sucker born every minute…

        • You have yet to tell us why Trump is the enemy of the people.

          Has he used the organs of government to atteck his political opponents like Obama?

          Has he defied te Courts like Governor Whitner?

          Has he attacked religious communities like Governors Newsom and Cuomo?

          Has he sent his army of cultist to burn and loot like Kamala Harris?

          Has he taken money from Russian Oligarchs like Clinton and Biden?

          I keep asking but you keep ignoring why is that?

          Kamala Harris is going to be the next President. Go watch her interchange with Amy Barrett and then get back to us and tells how much better she will be than orangemanbad.

        • You don’t have to vote for Biden just because you can’t stand Trump. If you consider yourself a conservative (or libertarian or classical liberal) and appreciate your Second Amendment rights, but can’t make yourself vote for Trump, just don’t vote.

          That would be a principled choice. Much better than actively helping a lifetime corruptocrat who has promised to gut the Second Amendment and has all those vile leftist authoritarians riding his coattails.

        • Okay, if what you say is true, then you’re a senile old fart. Obama wanted to take your guns away for not being able to manage your own affairs. Biden will do the same, so go ahead and vote for him. But clean out your depends first.

        • Ing, it isn’t like that with enuf. He literally prefers Biden to Trump for whatever reason. I get voting third party. I voted for Perot, but I did it because I believed in his policies. I still do. Imagine if we had had fixed those problems back in the 90s! Perot was right! Yes, I know this video is from RT, but I couldn’t find one by the Times or Post.

        • Yeah, Dude, I know. I feel like I have to say it, though. Maybe somebody that isn’t a lost cause will see it.

          Funny enough, I voted for Perot too. Can’t remember any of the positions he ran on, just that they sounded really good to my younger self back then.

      • “Are you going to change your name on Nov. 4th?”
        Of COURSE!!!!!!
        All these leftard trolls are hoping the MILLIONS of turds they dropped here on TTAG are somehow going to fly on November 4th.
        I wish we could make them eat the GIGANTIC sh!t sandwich they RIGHTFULLY deserve to consume, but they’ll all just ditch their identities.
        Trump/Pence 2020. Because PATRIOTS ACTUALLY use Avatars, and stand behind their words.

    • “If you cannot afford the rifle purchase a receiver.”

      Have you priced a stripped lower recently?

    • Why bother with a Colt nowadays? Outside of a few models there are better alternatives out there and manufacturers who actually want the public’s money. For example, the LE6920 is a very nice accurate carbine, but it’s not widely available or priced for the poors who’d consider buying one. Uppers in more effective calibers are out there, too.
      Hard pass on Colt.

      • I don’t think the AR-15 vs M4 was in reference to various brands vs Colt, but semi-auto only vs select fire. The NFA tax/registration and then Hughes amendment killed that. And we should be able to buy or build a select fire M4, m16, m-249, MP5, etc, burst, full auto, bump stock, whatever.

  4. The Founders knew about many more repeating arms than the repeating air gun. They even tried to buy some from an American maker, but his price was absurd and Congress canceled the order.

    Repeating arms pre-date the American Revolution by well over nearly two hundred years. Repeating arquebus, wheelock and flintlock firearms having capacities of up to 30 rounds were used in European wars in the Baltic region and the Low Countries.

    I haven’t time to write a long history this morning. But do your own searches. the info i snot hard to find, pictures too.

  5. If you going to have an AR15, I recommend building it. You get more out of it. Not that it’s necessary cheaper.

    • Online, at various places. I just saw some spendy Geisseles in stock. But also some Ruger and even $500 PSA complete rifles. I don’t know that there will be a lot of $350 ARs available and definitely options and quantities are limited, but they are still out there for those that want them and can get them but for some $$$.

      As usual, people can’t wait until a crisis, unrest, or until they need one to get one. Sandy hook was when I realized I had been a fool not to have at least a lower on hand, I didn’t really have the cash for a rifle but I scrambled and found an overpriced stripped lower to get started on.

      I have what I think I need now, but one can always get more ammo. There are a couple guns on the wish list (sp5k-pdw or sp5) but quantities are already limited and you can’t find them nor get them anywhere near MSRP.

      • Spendy rifles at $2000 and up are in stock, but anything under $800 is hard to find. I was at PSA last night, and they were almost sold out of their own rifles. The brand names I checked were out of stock.

  6. “Don’t Disappoint the Founding Fathers…Buy an AR-15 Rifle Today”

    Not until I can buy one that isn’t a neutered, gender-confused, low capacity disaster with no features, a malformed stock, and FUAC permission papers. Until then, I’ll stick with my Mini-14, which gets the job done and still has its dignity.

  7. Already got an AR15. How about ammo? A free press? A “free” FB,internet and tweeter?!? The corrupt media is in the tank for Dims-especially for slow Joe & the Hoe. They went out of their way to get rid of Nixon which wouldn’t even be a blip on the radar for today’s dumbocrat! Patriots need to stand up. If you didn’t prepare last it’s too late…

    • No, stock up on 80% lowers.
      It’s not about the numbers. It’s about not being a firearm (yet)

  8. The constitution notes you may own a private, state of the art, warship and apply for letters of marque. The founders wanted us to have aircraft carriers, if you can afford one and use it reasonably.

    • The basis for the most outrageously fun ’round-the-world cruise anybody ever dreamed of, 2-3000 passengers at a time!

    • True. Under the US Constitution if you wanted to outfit a boat to fight Somalian Piracy, it would be perfectly lawful for the US Govt to issue you a license to do so, under our most sacred and fundamental law.

      That would be a good thing. Sadly, out of fashion.

      • No, the license (letter of marque) is so you can capture goods and ships of a country with which your country is at war, without being labeled a pirate (legally speaking.) Constitution or not, you could always arm your ship as you saw fit. Anything less would be absurd. Because of the pirates.

        You were being sarcastic, but you’ve accidentally demonstrated the point instead. Nothing about the keeping and bearing of arms has been changed by technology since the penning of the Constitution. The same utility in an individual owning the most destructive arms available applies now just as it did then. I make only an exception for nuclear weapons, because I don’t think anyone, even (especially) governments, should have those.

  9. The Second Amendment began as the 5th. The 1st began as the 3rd. Fact is all are equal. But why a Bill of Rights?
    Declaration of Independence say The People have right and duty to preserve freedom by changing gov’t. This was not limited to King George.
    After the War Patrick Henry objected to ratification of the new Constitution because only the state’s had a right to arms.
    The Bill of Rights was the answer. The People had to have parity with the gov’t.
    The Second Amendment protect the people/citizens power to control gov’t. That power restrains bad gov’t. The right for military arms is protected.
    Self-defense is a 10th AMENDMENT right because nobody considered controversial.
    SCOTUS almost got it correctly in 1939 and 2010 but they claimed SD was the reason.
    Certainly The People could be nuked but the socialist politicians want the machinery in place. Butter have schools indoctrinate the students and have MSM lie.

  10. Ammo the answer to all of life’s dirtbag criminals!

  11. Make the Founders happy and save money at the same time. Just attach a bayonet to your AR-15. Or any long gun. Use duc tape if you have to. Also you can use a small knife for weapons without a bayonet lug.

  12. ive been buying or building at least 1 every year for a while…
    i now have 8:
    2 x 10.5 pistols in 5.56 and 7.62×39
    4 x 16 carbines in 5.56 6.8 and 300 blk
    an 18 in 5.56
    and a 20 in 6.5 cm
    havent i done enough already

    • There were semi-automatic weapons around when the Bill of Rights was written and ratified.

      The Girardoni air rifle dates to 1779.

      • Effective out to 125-150 yards. Adopted by the Austrian Army in 1780. Taken out of service in 1788, reissued in 1792 for use as sniper rifles. Probably illegal in The Socialist Territories. 22 round capacity and all that.

  13. “Don’t Disappoint the Founding Fathers…Buy an AR-15 Rifle Today”

    Or two or three or…

    Just like Lay’s potato chips… (Betcha can’t eat just one…).

  14. I’d want a plain jane AR-15, 20 inch barrel, “iron sights”. No hangers, no junk, other than whatever needed to make it more reliable than the original. The serious rifle in 5.56 NATO, as opposed to the clamor of the war toy. Then I’d get a 1952 Chevy or a 1948 Ford pick-up to haul ammo with. That might take awhile. (52 Chevy and 48 Ford were the tanks of the civilian world in their time).

    • looking at a 49 Studebaker w/transplanted Ford 351 (pre-computer w/carburetor), 5 speed and 9 inch rear, disc brakes and coil overs w/air…. Add a couple of air bags in the rear and haul/tow anything you might need…. Late 40s early 50’s Fords in good condition are getting premium prices, I can get this one for less than $10,000 w/little cash exchange if we can come to terms on one my mid/late 80s or early 90s Mustangs… He wants my Terminator but that one is NOT for sale (03, DSG vert, 40,000 miles, 600 plus rear wheel HP) way too much fun and worth WAY over ten grand…

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