Alabama’s Plan for a Centralized Concealed Carry Database Is A Very Bad Idea

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Alabama state Representative Proncey Robertson is pushing House Bill 39, the Alabama Uniform Concealed Carry Permit Act. It would create a centralized state database of concealed carry permits under the control of Alabama State Law Enforcement Agency.

Currently, permits are issued by the state’s county sheriffs who maintain their own records. The National Rifle Association is backing this bill as the bill would also provide for lifetime concealed carry permits.

Rep. Robertson claims this is a move to protect personal information.

“If they’re concerned about someone obtaining that information and using it on some overt way, it would be easy to get right now. If I put it (in) one system that’s password access and we’re monitoring every keystroke… that’s a secure system,” Robertson said.

I call that the “eggs in one basket” theory of computer security. As is, with permit information stored in local counties’ systems around the state, a single computer breach will only expose the permit holders in the affected county.

Centralizing all counties’ data in a single system means one hack would expose 750,000 people’s personal information. Ask the Department of Defense how that worked for it or, more recently, Louisiana.

I know…ask the New Zealand Police what happens when a centralized system is hacked.

If this were about security and disparate processes, the proper approach would be to set statewide security standards and a permit issuing process for counties to follow. Funding to help counties implement those standards could then be appropriated.

But this isn’t about that, really.

The goal here is simply to have one centralized list of gun-owning permit holders. All the better for thieves to target them. Or efficiently suspend suspend their permits. Or even — again turning to New Zealand — use the database to confiscate firearms after banning them.

comments

  1. avatar Thixotropic says:

    Slippery Slope. NRA and Globalist Elites BOTH support BIG GOVT & Centralized Control of EVERYTHING.

  2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

    That would be no different than CC permits in Fl being issued by the Fl Dept of Agriculture, seems to work okay here I’ve had no issues in 22 yrs and three renewals.. As a far as using that data base for confiscation, there is no reference to the type of gun I carry or even if IT is a gun, Fl permit is for any concealed weapon, they can’t just come knocking because I MIGHT have a banned weapon, besides all my guns were involved in that historic boat sinking that has claimed so many firearms from several of the unfortunate regulars on here..

  3. avatar tmm says:

    On a different note, ATF planning to change 4473, putting firearm data and your data on same page (the easier to scan you with, my dear).

    ATF Proposes Step to Make a National Gun Registry Easier

    URGENT CALL TO ACTION: ATF Pushing National Gun Registry

    1. avatar tmm says:

      …ATF comment period opened up Dec 24th, closes in TWO days.

    2. avatar Anymouse says:

      Your dealer still uses paper 4473s?

      1. avatar Rusty - Molon Labe - Chains says:

        Mine does, huge store and loads of guns. I once bought a gun at Cabelas and they use an electronic form, so I won’t go back. Electronic forms and easy to OCR documents are not trustworthy because they are way too easy to turn into a handy dandy online database, absolutely ripe for abuse!

  4. avatar JIAZ says:

    I’m suspicious of any legislation Wayne LaPierre supports.

  5. avatar anaxis says:

    Turnaround for new permits in my county is usually less than a week. Renewals can be done in-person, 5 days a week.

    If the system goes to Montgomery, that turnaround will be more like five months.

    1. avatar Tarzan says:

      I’m guessing our county sheriffs here in AL won’t want this to pass to the state level either. They get to charge, and keep the fees for the carry license in their local slush fund, and spend it how they want. It’s why they oppose constitutional carry also. The fees for a license will drop off. I doubt chairman Treadway will even allow this to get out for a full vote by the legislature. It’s always about money and control. Nothing like this will pass until that worthless Treadway is gone. I’d rather the state controlled the process. Those of us with a carry license were able to just show that and buy a new gun without waiting on the background check. But last year the FBI/ATF stopped allowing that, because some sheriffs were giving out conceal carry licenses to people that had felonies. So now we have to go thru the background check. And that sucks, because if you always get a delay, they make you come back another day to get your firearm. And the list won’t really matter if people found out who has a gun here in bama, because nearly everyone has guns, and carries. Except for a few liberal areas, and a lot those types have guns too. We’re full up on guns down here, which is a good thing.

    2. avatar Ron says:

      Isn’t Alabama constitutional carry anyway?

      1. avatar SouthAl says:

        Concealed requires a permit. The sheriffs have killed constitutional carry for years now to keep from losing the fees.

  6. avatar john y says:

    Urgent! Have until 2/24 to respond and stop ATF Illegally Copying Form 4473s
    TAKE ACTION HERE!!!
    https://gunowners.org/na02152020/
    More information: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFI6qqH6GsY&feature=em-uploademail

    1. avatar Anymouse says:

      You realize that modern scanners can do both sides of a paper as fast as it will feed through the mechanism, right? In the field, you can photograph both sides almost as quickly, or run HD video while flipping through a stack of pages. If they get rid of all the stupid stuff, like gender and race, there will be room anyway. There’s a lot bigger threats to our freedom than this. If they start creating the registry, that’s the problem. If they have to hire twice or thrice as many people to implement it doesn’t matter. Nobody is going to give up on a registry because they have to buy the top end commercial scanner instead of a cheap consumer one. They’re spending OPM anyway. A bigger project has the benefit of more opportunities for a little kickback.

  7. avatar enuf says:

    So how does the Alabama bill compare to the Arizona approach? The AZ DPS administers the shall issue concealed weapon laws there. See here:
    https://www.azdps.gov/services/public/cwp

  8. avatar Southern Cross says:

    Any system will often be circumvented by laziness and stupidity. The NSW Firearms Registry database was supposed to be access controlled with who and what was accessed logged. Also officers had to request access if they thought they needed it if they didn’t already have it.

    For reasons unknown, a copy of the database was made in MS-Access format with MS-Office password security. A security system so weak I could break it in less than 5 minutes including searching on how and downloading the free tool needed. This copy was also stored on the internally open police intranet. It wasn’t long before copies were found outside the police service and firearm collectors and dealers were on the receiving end of aggravated robberies to steal the guns, particularly handguns.

    The Assistant Commissioner who authorized this copy was barely admonished, and certainly not reprimanded or fired. Personally I think they should have been publicly cashiered and then tarred and feathered before being run out of town on a rail.

  9. avatar Darkman says:

    Make NO mistake. Having worked for the Government for 20 years. Everything is on a list and Nothing Ever gets destroyed. They have1000’s of warehouse’s filled to the rafters with Lists. They have thousands of people who’s only job is to compile lists. If it happened and there was ANY inner action with the Government. It’s on a List. Regardless of the Legality of the information. If it can’t be proven it doesn’t exist. They have thousands of people making sure it Can’t be proven. I’ve seen records as far back as the1930’s. On people long dead and buried. Nothing gets thrown away. So if you’re worried about being on a List. Not to worry You are. Starting the day You were born. Keep Your Powder Dry.

    1. avatar Ed Schrade says:

      Which is why Constitutional carry is already legal in all 50 stated per our founding fathers. Time to remove some supreme court judges that do not agree with this.

      1. avatar possum says:

        I hear you on that one. Been arrested twice for carrying concealed. The judge listened to my spiel about the Constitutional Rights, then gave me a fine, probation requirements and kept the gunms. So what’s a possum do!? Carrys anyway, fckem

  10. avatar Ralph says:

    As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
    I’ve got a little list — I’ve got a little list
    Of society offenders who might well be underground,
    And who never would be missed — who never would be missed!

    — Gilbert and Sullivan

    1. avatar Miner49er says:

      “ When I get mad
      And I get pissed
      I grab my pen
      And I write out a list
      Of all the people
      That won’t be missed
      You’ve made my shitlist
      For all the ones
      Who bum me out
      Shitlist
      For all the ones
      Who fill my head with doubt
      Shitlist
      For all the squares who get me pissed
      Shitlist
      You’ve made my shitlist
      Shitlist
      Shitlist
      When I get mad
      And I get pissed
      Shitlist
      I grab my pen
      And write out a list
      Shitlist
      Of all you assholes
      Who won’t be missed
      Shitlist
      You’ve made my shitlist
      Shitlist
      Shitlist”

      Donita Sparks

      1. avatar possum says:

        I make a shortlist, then I rub them out real hard with the erraser , “There take that, grrrrrrrr”, rub rub

  11. avatar Kroglikepie says:

    Hard pass. More bureaucracy, increased permit fees (the bill sets the floor at $25 per year if no current local law sets it lower), special status for vets (14A violation), and letting Montgomery be in charge of permitting.

    Bad bill. Kill it.

    1. avatar SouthAl says:

      Agreed, though a closer call for me given there is so much shit going on in some counties regarding issuance (age requirement differences, no background check, etc.).

      I think Tarzan’s upstream post is spot on about it not making it.

      1. avatar Kroglikepie says:

        The counties are not allowed to proscribe their own requirements for a Pistol Permit. In practice they do, however, as the *process* has not been standardized at the state level like it should be. Also, under the proposed bill, the county still keeps the fees for the licenses, so the traitorous Sheriff Association may still support the bill as it will increase the fees collected in most counties with the proposed price floor. That being said, the lifetime permit would put a serious dent in their play money if enough people sought one.

        I *constantly* use the Sheriff Association’s own words against them anytime a bootlicker brings up the ‘public safety’ aspect about why we can’t have Constitutional Carry. If it really were about ‘public safety’, then Sheriffs would not be the reason Alabama had its BATFE Brady exemption pulled. Never stop letting people know that it is just a slush fund!

  12. avatar Anymouse says:

    Isn’t there a central list anyway? If the police pull you over, your CCW status doesn’t show up for them? Can they check that your CCW isn’t a forgery? What protections are there already? Are there laws to stop an antigun sherriff from opening all his CCW records to the public? If they are centralized, there’s one neck to wring/suit to file to prevent a rogue bureaucrat from putting them out there. As for hackers, state revenue returns would be a much juicier target since identity theft = $$$. I’d rather risk it myself than having to go get fingerprinted and pay >$100 every few years for a renewal.

  13. avatar possum says:

    Getting a concealed carry permit is a bad idea. What part of the Second Amendment says you can have a gunm as long as the existing government says you can. .

  14. avatar Everyday_Carrier says:

    EVERY PLAN FOR A DATABASE/REGISTRY ON GUN OWNERS IS A BAD IDEA!

    I feel like we have covered this already.

  15. avatar Prndll says:

    Having been married doesn’t mean you ARE married.
    Having purchased a gun doesn’t mean you OWN a gun.
    Having once had a CHL doesn’t mean you carry or even own a gun.

    Life has it’s ups and downs. Not everything in life a forever. But being on a database like this tends to last well beyond a lifetime. Some people buy only one firearm in their lifetime. If it gets stolen, that’s it. But what is so troublesome (aside from the obvious lack of security) is that if you are a gun owner, you are defaulted into being classified as a menace to society. So much so that you must be monitored via database. Like some kind of sexual deviant. It doesn’t seem to matter that the overwhelming majority exercises great restraint and wisdom over any firearm under their responsibility. While at the same time, true criminals are given the ‘revolving door’ treatment of remaining free to hurt anyone they wish. People have guns in the first place BECAUSE OF these criminals (many of whom are government officials). It doesn’t seem to matter that so much more human life is takin because of other things like drugs, drunk driving, abortion, medical malpractice, and cancer. That’s not even to mention suicide because of things like loneliness and desperation.

    So many people focusing on the smallest of nothing while completely ignoring the real issues that make living life so hard.

    Why do this? What possible benefit is there for such a database? To make people more aware? We are all already aware of the fact that lots of people own and carry guns. That has been the case since long before any of us were born. It will still be the case long after we are all dead. I see nothing to gain by purposely making a large number of people MORE vulnerable.

  16. avatar Frank Deforrest says:

    Republicans come up with some of the best gun control laws.

  17. avatar IAmNotTheHulk says:

    Where’s all the NH support while they once again are pushing bogus gun control legislation!
    Can you get the word out? We need to step up here!
    HOLD THE LINE March 14 at the Concord Statehouse, INFORM YOUR BASE!

  18. avatar Miner49er says:

    So am I hearing this right, many people on this list want to hide official government acts from the public?

    And the idea is, you want to hide the fact that some citizens received a special government benefit, and not let their fellow citizens know they’ve received this official act from the politicians?

    Interesting. So conceivably, people could get a secret marriage license, because it’s nobodies business if they are married, right?

    1. avatar Prndll says:

      “…you want to hide the fact that some citizens received a special government benefit, and not let their fellow citizens know they’ve received this official act from the politicians?”

      What benefits are you referring to? Guns? If that’s what your talking about then please explain. American citizens owning and carrying firearms is NOT a benefit given by government. It’s a right that the 2nd Amendment tells the government not to try to take away.

      As for marriage:
      The only reason for the marriage license is because of the legal ramifications of joining two peoples’ lives (finances, material possessions, and various responsibilities). Things that go well beyond love or lust.

    2. avatar Prndll says:

      Actually, I think the main idea for creating the marriage license in the first place was to prevent medical issues through offspring like spreading of disease and deformity from incest. It seems like having the ability to trace lineage and keep track of population numbers were part of that too.

  19. avatar Miner49er says:

    And many on this list oppose the idea of mandatory training for a CCW.

    Is it reasonable for the public to expect that those who carry a lethal weapon every day should be trained in the safe and effective use and possession of their concealed weapon?

    “A 36-year-old father and his 4-year-old son were rushed to hospital after being accidentally shot in the head when a gun discharged while they were play wrestling together.

    The incident happened on Sunday in their home located just south of Bloomington, Indiana, when the two were having fun wrestling together and the father had a concealed handgun on the small of his back.”

    1. avatar Prndll says:

      Training is always a good idea. However, there is government forced training that monitors and creates database information and then there is social training that generates true responsibility and wisdom.

    2. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

      That’s a very good point, ‘miner’. I think we can easily come to an agreement here that results in *true* gun safety! Lives actually saved!

      The best way to accomplish that is to make sure everyone knows gun safety. Like this – Starting in elementary school, the children need to learn that guns are to dangerous for them to handle safely, so if they happen to come across one while playing with their friends they should do 4 things :

      1 -STOP!

      2 – Don’t touch it!

      3 – Run away!

      4 – Tell a responsible adult!

      We drill that into them twice a year in elementary school.

      Guns are a part of American life, ‘miner’. Once in high school, we treat guns the same way we currently do driver’s education and teach safe gun handling. How never to let the muzzle point at anything they don’t want to see permanently destroyed, how to safely unload them, etc, etc.

      The beauty of this education is that, by the time they graduate, they won’t need gun safety training! They will know it already!

      What do you think about that plan, ‘miner’? 🙂 🙂 :)…

  20. avatar Will Drider says:

    Florida’s CFWL is consolidated under the authority of the Dept of Agriculture Commissioner. That “elected position” is currently held by Nikki Fried (D) who flaunts her medical marijuana card and her CFWL and is very anti-gun supporting 2A restriction including AWB/mag bans being added to the FL Constitution among others. She does so under her elected position Title and that’s a bad thing for FL 2A.

    1. avatar Rex Flavorton says:

      Florida CCW permitting was put under their department of Ag by a Republican because he though the position should be directly accountable to the voters. If the voters then choose a Democrat, you can’t really blame on some gun grabbing conspiracy.

      It was a very stupid move to begin with, because the FL permitting people are not law enforcement and have no access to criminal databases. They have to send information to the state police (FDLE) who then do a background check and report the results to Dept of Ag whose only job is collecting the fee and printing the card.

      Even better when the person at Florida Department of Law Enforcement Services who is in charge of running those checks through NICS and III doesn’t know her log-in information and just doesn’t do her job for a couple years leading to hundreds of permits being issued to people who were federally disqualified from possessing firearms. Or how Florida can issue permits to elected officials without any background checks.

      If you want to know why there isn’t nation wide reciprocity, look at Florida and ask yourself why any other state would want to honor their permits.

      1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

        The same 12 states that do not recognize FL CCP do not accept any other states Permits… The reason we don’t have national concealed carry? See Ca, Or, Wa, Mn, Il, NY, NJ, Hi, RI, Ma, Ct, Md and of course Washington DC… As far as the Dem getting elected to head dept of Agriculture, she ran as a moderate and so far has run the dept. that way, had to renew my CCP last year and really expected at least some grief in the process but I went on line submitted a current photo and had my new permit in 10 ten days… As far as those “hundreds” of disqualified persons 381 were revoked and it only went on for one year because Putnam (R) was too busy running for Governor to do his job…. I can appreciate the need to blame Fl for every problem in the country after all our population has been drastically diluted by every asshole liberal from every state in the union and Puerto Rico and they are doing their best to end any semblance of what it means to be Florida….. Last election only Dem elected statewide was Agriculture I don’t think we will be so fortunate next time…. But Fl can not be blamed for problems passing national reciprocity as Ca and NY will never permit it, and I’m pretty sure there are other states with their own little “secrets” that they hope never come to light… My FFL does not have access to criminal databases, but he sells hundreds of guns a year using law enforcement to get the information for him. Just another low/no information Troll, welcome to the real world…

      2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

        The same 12 states that do not recognize FL CCP do not accept any other states Permits… The reason we don’t have national concealed carry? See Ca, Or, Wa, Mn, Il, NY, NJ, Hi, RI, Ma, Ct, Md and of course Washington DC… As far as the Dem getting elected to head dept of Agriculture, she ran as a moderate and so far has run the dept. that way, had to renew my CCP last year and really expected at least some grief in the process but I went on line submitted a current photo and had my new permit in 10 ten days… As far as those “hundreds” of disqualified persons 381 were revoked and it only went on for one year because Putnam (R) was too busy running for Governor to do his job…. I can appreciate the need to blame Fl for every problem in the country after all our population has been drastically diluted by every asshole liberal from every state in the union and Puerto Rico and they are doing their best to end any semblance of what it means to be Florida….. Last election only Dem elected statewide was Agriculture I don’t think we will be so fortunate next time…. But Fl can not be blamed for problems passing national reciprocity as Ca and NY will never permit it, and I’m pretty sure there are other states with their own little “secrets” that they hope never come to light… My FFL is not law enforcement either and does not have access to criminal databases, but he sells hundreds of guns a year using law enforcement to get the information for him. Just another low/no information Troll, welcome to the real world…

        1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          first post should have deleted but like sometimes posts disappear other times when you want them too they don’t.. Oh well it was worth saying twice to me and there it is….

  21. avatar Jim Bullock says:

    By the time we hear, there’s always a “plan”, but no why, what it’s for, or why they think it’ll work.

    It’s like the plan is its own point.

  22. avatar Carry says:

    First of all, it is not easy to get an Alabama Concealed Carry Permit. You need to visit the Sheriff’s office where you are located in Alabama. Also, the state does not accept the Virginia Nin Resident Carry Permit. Where you don’t need to demonstrate your proper reason to have it.

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