Ever since New York’s SAFE Act and new restrictions in other states further encroaching on law abiding gun owners’ right to keep and bear were enacted in the wake of Sandy Hook, the tectonic pressures have been building. You can feel it within mainstream organizations such as the NRA, where gun owners are in the midst of a “culture war.” You can certainly see it in the murkier corners of the intertubes where he who shall not have hair openly promised to “start killing people” if someone comes for his guns. The stage has been set for an otherwise innocuous – or overtly provocative – incident to get out of control. It’ll get real ugly real fast. Radio host Adam Kokesh seems just the man to set off the seismic tsunami . . .
salon.com is reporting that Kokesh is planning a July 4 March on Washington. He’s looking to assemble 1000 like-minded pro-2A folks and march across the Memorial Bridge from Virginia into “gun free” D.C. With loaded rifles.
The gun control industry laughs at the idea of law-abiding gun owners pitting their pitiful guns to stand up against to tyranny. Reacting to a report that 44% of Republicans (vs. 18% of Democrats) think that an armed revolution might be necessary, Bill Maher let out a loud guffaw:
Can we get to, first of all, how ridiculous it is for people to think that the Second Amendment protects them from tyranny. Didn’t Waco solve that? We just had the anniversary a couple of weeks ago. Remember Waco? You know what they had in Waco? They had like 1.9 million rounds of ammunition; they had .50 caliber machine guns; they had grenades…What did the government have? Everything else. The winner and still champion – the United States government. Thinking the Second Amendment protects you from tyranny is like thinking the First Amendment protects you from Thor. It’s quaint. It’s ridiculous. It’s nonsensical. And they never get called [on] it!
For his part, Kokesh (which sounds disturbingly Koreshian) is calling his little soiree the Open Carry March on Washington. Here’s the description of the event from his facebook page:
On the morning of July 4, 2013, Independence Day, we will muster at the National Cemetery & at noon we will step off to march across the Memorial Bridge, down Independence Avenue, around the Capitol, the Supreme Court, & the White House, then peacefully return to Virginia across the Memorial Bridge. This is an act of civil disobedience, not a permitted event. We will march with rifles loaded & slung across our backs to put the government on notice that we will not be intimidated & cower in submission to tyranny. We are marching to mark the high water mark of government & to turn the tide. This will be a non-violent event, unless the government chooses to make it violent. Should we meet physical resistance, we will peacefully turn back, having shown that free people are not welcome in Washington, & returning with the resolve that the politicians, bureaucrats, & enforcers of the federal government will not be welcome in the land of the free.
Would the D.C. police act to stop them from crossing that bridge from Arlington into the capitol? Wouldn’t they almost have to? Allowing armed marchers to flout the law, brazenly carrying locally illegal firearms, would set a rather uncomfortable precedent for the nation’s seat of power.
And what happens then? What if, despite Kokesh’s pledge to peacefully do an about face, one of his fellow marchers, met by resistance from law enforcement, is stupid (or careless) enough to crack off a shot? With a battalion of armed riflemen encountering a phalanx of DCPD, one shot could (and probably would) quickly turn into many more. And a very bloody, terribly ugly incident. All filmed for the evening news.
Even if Kokesh’s provocative procession comes off peacefully, this will likely be the first of many of these. A March on Albany holding mags with 8 rounds loaded in the air? Another one on Denver sporting full Magpul 30-round mags? The potential is there for any one of those types of situations — or another one entirely — to go south. And then what?
“Have fun storming the castle!”
Excellent Princess Bride quote. I can hear Billy Crystal saying that quite vividly in my head! I think that should be the new meme for the Truth About Guns — to provide as many relevant quotes from that movie as possible.
Have a nice mutton, lettuce and tomato sandwich where the mutton is nice and lean . . . .
As Obama looks out the window and mouths the word “inconceivable”.
For the win!
Don’t start before noon or he won’t be up yet.
I give you full marks for bravery — don’t make yourself a fool.
The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right…and who is dead.
…anybody want a peanut?
I wonder if this march will actually take place. That’s what usually happens with bombastic stuff like this. It gets a lot of press, the point is made, and for one reason or another it’s downgraded to something a lot less rife with danger.
Maybe I’m wrong, and if so I’ll gladly contribute to their legal defense fund, with the full acknowledgement that I didn’t have the balls (and barring that, the money for the airfare) to be standing there on the bridge next to them.
Have to keep things very disciplined to keep this from going from a stunt or a demonstration to a disaster.
This outcome depends on both sides keeping their cool, and not mistaking the sound of a car backfiring as the opening salvo.
I’m not sure if you ladies and gentlemen are familiar with Mr. Kokesh. He looks forward to getting arrested for his god-given rights and his moral principles.
Oh a lot could go wrong, but my money’s on 1000 armed Patriots over DCPD any day.
Even a few hundred people doing this would make a huge statement. Getting enough people to do it, may be difficult. Now, who would be the instigators to cause the first problems? My bet is DCPD.
Yeah, but don’t forget it’s not just going to be Metro PD, but you have the Secret Service, FBI, and every other law enforcement agency in DC. My bet is that it would make Boston look rather tame.
It would be more than that. If they really ended up doing it, they would have DHS and FBI there, probably ATF and DEA too. Crap just look at Boston – they had every 3 letter agency in the Executive Branch with full armor and MRAPs there to look for one 19 year old unarmed kid with no military training, and it cost $333M. 1,000 people marching on Washington? Expect them to have F22s and a C130 Gunship loitering overhead.
no, no, no.
1000 unarmed individuals marching in protest guarded by people with guns is self defense.
1000 guys with loaded rifles marching through DC is a small army. It could be construed as an an invasion and an act of war. This has “Coup d’etat” and right wing fascist all over it. Or white supremacists.
At least in Maryland, I am pretty sure that protesters are required to be disarmed. Not sure about VA. “Peaceable assembly” is not this.
This is not a non-violent protest. This is an invitation for the National Guard and LEO to put down an “insurrection” and/or send people to Guantanimo. Don’t believe me? Look at Boston. Last thing we need is justification for the DHS to use their tanks.
WOW; wrong on just about every point. I think this is doable. I really think they can pull it off. I may go. Kokesh is well-known, and well-respected. I think he’s the right person to pull this off.
Indeed. All attending will be consenting adults who can make their own decision to participate. Whatever happens, happens.
It’s civil disobedience. They plan to do a thing which is basicaly legal, but barred by ordinances of questionable provenance.
I applauds it, I does.
You guys obviously have no idea how many sensitive targets there are in DC from embassies to intelligence facilities. You really can’t walk 200 yards most places without passing something “sensitive” aka considered a terrorist target and heavily watched. Nobody will tolerate 1000 armed people marching in DC – from DCPD to homeland security. Homeland will be concerned that one lone terrorist or nutjob will sneak into the group and wreak havoc. I suspect that now all 700 people who have signed up have an NSA and DHS file and the analysts are actively researching them.
If you want to protest carry restrictions in the district, it a) should be limited to district residents; b) sufficiently dispersed in dangerous neighborhoods where “outside the home” self defense can be legitimately claimed. Maybe two people to a city block. Sufficiently dispersed they cannot arrest everybody, and this does not scream nut jobs with rifles.
you obviously have no idea how many targets there are in DC that are heavily watched – from embassies to intelligence facilities. Some places you cannot go 200 yards without passing a potential target. I doubt this will be allowed – everyone from DCPD to homeland will be concerned one nutjob/terrorist will sneak into the march. Chances are, the 700 people who signed up are already being “researched.”
If you want to protest the carry restrictions in DC, make it dispersed, by DC residents, confined to dangerous residential neighborhoods – where someone can legitimately claim self defense outside the home. A couple people to a block. Not an army.
This does seem to provide an opportunity for an Obama plant to blend in with the protesters and intentionally touch off a shooting scenario.
More realistically there will probably be some parking ordinance in VA that will throw in a monkey wrench and this thing will never get organized the morning of the event. Maybe one big arrest and the rest will just go back home in the same piecemeal manner that they arrived.
But IF (and it’s a capital IF) it was successfully pulled off it would be a gutsy, ground breaking event.
I am all in favor of protesting, but i think it needs to be done with great discretion. If you are really serious about making a point, do it in small organized teams, at 2am in a dangerous residential neighborhood, make neighbors your allies, and do some good making the streets safer. Have a reporter tag along, kind of a civilian version of cops. The police will hate it because it will make them look like asshats who cant do their jobs. Otherwise, its just a right wing army marching through DC.
Except that, as long as the protesters don’t fire the first shot, the government will promote the exact opposite of what they want by going after them. It will be government oppression against non-violent protesters on a level not seen since Tiananmen Square.
If shots gets fired at all, from either side, the story will be that the protesters shot first, no matter what. This only works if the media is honest and honorable. Do we have that?
We’d get the same old story, “it is unclear as to who fired first” or “witnesses claim angry protesters fired first”, no matter what really happens.
Airfare only, in my case. Should that change, I think I’ll attend. A Mosin with pig sticker attached has a place in such a place.
Living in Kansas, I feel almost as though I’m watching this debate and debacle from another country.
Free State, indeed.
Adam Kokesh undoubtedly has the balls to follow through with this commitment. Participating in this would probably spell the end of my ability to practice law, but this is exactly what the fight for liberty needs. Sitting on the sidelines and begging a corrupt government to let us be free is both futile and pathetic. Appealing to democracy, which is nothing more than tyranny by majority (or plurality as it is) is equally as laughable if you truly believe each individual is sovereign in his right to life, liberty, and property. The plurality has never trended towards liberty, but rather oppression of minority interests. Those who value liberty wish to live without coercion, and the time has come to stand and declare that we will be coerced no more. Dan’s tone is critical, but what does he propose; sit and take it, try to convince a plurality of voters that limited government is the best path, beg dictators for freedom, or declare your independence and live as a free man?
‘The plurality has never trended towards liberty’. Succinct, that. True too.
Sheriff of Rottingham: “Yes, you put it succinctly.”
Don Giovanni: “Suck what?”
Sheriff of Rottinham: “Succinctly. lt means ‘perfectly’.”
It makes me think of a different group of armed men crossing a river , that river was the Rubicon.
I thought it was the Delaware.
Made me think of a bridge in the deep south. Guarded by Bull Connor, attack dogs, and firehouses.
For you young uns’, it was one of the pivotal marches led by MLK during the civil rights fight. It ended badly for the marchers, but the resulting publicity began a sea change in how most Americans viewed the civil rights movement.
It laid bare the bigotry and brutality for the entire nation to see. Any one see any parallels?
Of course they had a largely sympathetic media, one which would actually report events, which we don’t enjoy.
The Edmund Pettis Bridge in Selma.
Ultimately, that didn’t end well for the Roman Republic. Maybe that’s the point you’re trying to make.
By the rude bridge that arched the flood,
Their flag to April’s breeze unfurled,
Here once the embattled farmers stood
And fired the shot heard round the world.
Swap Boston with D.C. and April with May, and you may see a repeat of history. I pray that it doesn’t end up that way, but this has the makings of a beginning to a tragedy or a turning point in the battle for our eroded rights.
They didn’t think Blacks marching on the capital would amount to anything either, but all it takes is the first march to happen. Then more and more, until our voices of reason will drown out the nay-sayers and the doom-wishers. When 1,000 peacefull armed citizens accomplish this task, what will it say when 10,000 show up the next time?
You want impact? Here is impact. The NRA just stated they now have 5 million members. 1 million coming on board since Sandy Hook.
Impact is doubling that number before 2014 and having the NRA state they have 10 million + members. Then by 2016 double that again to 20 million.
That is impact any politician and Joe Public can understand. This will show the monster was asleep but not is awake and that political jobs are at stake.
The media was out yesterday already downplaying this announcement. They basically said wow, 5 million members? That’s not even 2% of the population, proof the NRA doesn’t speak for us the 98%. Of course they didn’t mention how many members the Brady bunch has.
I think it would be important to make David Gregory the poster boy for this event. Along with the DA’s decision not to prosecute. After all, “prosecution would not promote public safety in the District of Columbia nor serve the best interests of the people of the District to whom this office owes its trust. “
1,000 guys with rifles and David Gregory masks.
No V masks would be more approriate!
If it seems like Kokesh can actually carry this out, he’ll be arrested long before boots are planted on the ground. If the demonstration is going to be a flop, with more cops than protesters (we’ve seen that many times before), then the po-po will wait and arrest him and his peeps at the beginning of the march.
The G cannot tolerate a few armed guys showing it up.
Agreed. Even if the police turn back the march and that is all peaceful, people will get arrested later. Anyone who chooses to participate should keep this in mind. I think this is too public and high profile for participants to be denied due process, so I doubt that people will be landing in Gitmo.
Adam Kokesh = agent provocateur.
You think so? Jeez, I hope not. I really like the guy from what I’ve seen of him.
Personally, I hope they change their plan and stay home and have a B-B-Q with their families. Nothing good will come out of this as long as the media control the conversation. God help us if some idiot caps a cop during this peaceful protest. The left would love nothing more and I can see this being sabotaged easily by any number of agitators, especially our government. Throw in a few 30 packs and we have a mob that doesn’t represent the majority of lawful gun owners. I think it’s a recipe for disaster.
They represent me.
This country was not founded by pu$$ies having a BBQ.
It wasnt founded by idiots either. this is a BAD, BAD idea. Thus is exactly what obama wants. A powder keg to blow up in our face. I can’t and wont support taking loaded rifles to a protest. Our situation is dire, but by no means does it call for desperate measures. This march is a giant accident waiting to happen.
Then go to NWBob’s BBQ Benny.
Get it started, Adam Kokesh! Time to get some righteousness going on in America!!!
In 1980s California,there was a proposed ban on loaded and openly carried weapons sitting on a state reps desk.It stayed there because the State rep concluded there wasn’t any support for the bill.
Then Bobby Seale walked into the State Capitol with loaded weapons.The state rep who thought his bill had no support was named Mulford,and the gun control law which bears his name was signed into law by then governor Regean in record time as a response.
Those who do not learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Be still, and hope they don’t notice we are afraid and will not act.
That would be the 1960’s. 1967 to be precise. And that law banned the carrying of loaded weapons–unloaded open carry was still legal. But because of Open Carry activism, that “loophole” has been closed, first for handguns, then for long arms, except on private property not open to the public, or unincorporated public lands and forests.
Open carry of an un-loaded weapon has to be the dumbest scenario of them all. It’s like a buffet for an armed robber who will, of course, have his gun loaded.
This guy is a fraud and a rabble rouser.
“Last thing we need is justification for the DHS to use their tanks.”
Maybe that is exactly what needs to happen so that the lies stop my friend. We can sit here and complain and try and do the right thing and vote for the right people and stay legal and peaceful, but for how long? The gun grabbers are regrouping and getting ready for the next round of attacks on our rights. You can fend off an attacking dog for so long, but eventually you will get bit unless you “neutralize” the attack. I think that they need to see that we are standing together on this issue and we will not just lay down and give into the continuous attacks on our freedoms.
I also disagree that a peaceful demonstration can not happen with armed participants. Remember the civil rights movement? This happened all the time.
I can tell you this much. I am not white, a fascist, or a coward for that matter. Don’t buy into the lie that only white extremist care about their 2A rights. I am a hispanic, a veteran, and a patriot and I think that Virginia may be a great place to celebrate Independence Day this year.
I like the first amendment protects me from Thor thing hehehehe
Even though I disagree with Bill Maher 99% of the time, he still can make me chuckle.
My concern is not 1000+ people vs DCPD but with this already being a known plan, 1000+ people vs DCPD and other off duty officers from surrounding communities AND the national guard.
Make it 500,000+ people and Ill take the chance and go also.
Good luck to all of thoes participating and keep cool.
“…make it 500,000+”
Let me add, “and unarmed.” A march huge enough to shut down DC streets and interrupt peoples’ normal daily activities, too big to be ignored. Pop the beltway isolation bubble and drive home a gut level understanding of how angry Americans are by these efforts to limit civil liberties. That would be worth something, and indeed seems overdue.
If Kokesh actually leads this march as planned (armed), I fervently hope that nothing goes wrong. If shots are fired, the pro-2A movement will lose ground. If shots are not fired, we probably lose relatively little, except to give the MSM more material with which to paint us as crazy.
If the Feds are truly capable of false flag attacks against Americans (I still hate to believe that), this march would be an absolutely perfect opportunity to stage one, as others have said. Even if the Feds don’t, some random zealot anti- probably will.
I don’t know if the author of this article is agreeing with Bill Maher? Who has no understanding about how Waco went down apparently or that the davidians LET the ATF fall back after they ran out of ammo. The .50’s never got used. and seriously grenades, select fire lol? BS… The davidians where morons in shock that they were under attack and never fought back anywhere near the extent they could have. Remember the ATF attacked when many of the men where out working. Next time something starts everyone knows not to be nice like the davidians where, all that does is get you cremated in place. Good for Kokesh, I hope more MEN join him. Cowardice is what got us here in the first place.
So Maher concludes that a bunch of ill-equipped rabble can’t stand against the might of the US war machine. I wish he’d let the Taliban know that they can’t win. I’m tired of them killing our guys.
Waco shows how not to do it. One guy kept California’s LEOs running around like their heads were on fire and their asses were catching. One guy shut down Boston.
Fortification is fine if you keep a low profile. Last stands have their place, but they are not how we will win.
Instead of asking whether the 1000+ individuals would be
safe, respectful and exercise restraint; I would ask if any of
us actually believe that the DCPD, other security or the
media itself won’t overtly provoke if not directly start a
confrontation with the hopes of it going bad.
While being all for the spirit of showing up with rifles, I do have serious reservations over the rifles being loaded. All it takes is one shot going off- either accidentally or intentionally-for what could be a transformational event to quickly turn into a tragic moment with catastrophic implications in terms of firearms regulations. The potential for loss of life on both sides of the issue is staggering, as demonstrators and government forces face off, all caught on cameras and replayed endlessly by the press and Youtube. It would likely create a situation where Congress would succumb to demands from the White House and the anti-2A crowd, putting us on a road to stronger prohibitions in legislation. Mr. Kokesh’s idea of a parade of rifle carrying patriots is commendable, however magazines and ammo may likely create a scenario that pro-2A folk may come to regret. We do not need another ‘shot heard around the world’………
Or maybe we do?
I think we do. Not the right time and place. I think it will all go wrong. Just not a good idea.
Don’t go to stupid places with stupid people and do stupid things.
Seems like John prefers “the cowering heard round the world” instead. If it comes down to a war, we’d win hands down. Maybe all the boasting is just the government trying to hide how insecure they are knowing that we could eradicate them quite easily.
That’s odd. I thought only liberals were incapable of acting responsibly with weapons. I carry a loaded firearm often and haven’t shot anyone.
Not all gun owners are responsible. it only takes one idiot…
As for Waco proving anything, Maher is making an argument from ignorance. He can’t imagine how guns would protect you from the overwhelming force the government can bring to bear, so it must not be possible.
Here’s the thing: it’s true the government can do a Waco style takedown pretty easily, but it doesn’t scale. If the populace as a whole is armed, that kind of thing becomes impossible. They can’t possibly concentrate their forces sufficiently everywhere they’d need to be.
I find it hard to trust anyone who was involved in IVAW, after they promoted the lies of so many fake soldiers. I don’t know much about Kokesh, but this whole thing has a funny smell to me at this point.
If anything did go wrong… It would be 200x worse than the Boston Massacre 243 years ago.
But it took that “massacre” to wake people up to exactly how serious was the tyranny they were living under and convince them to do something about it, which eventually was the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Now we are living under a new tyranny pretending to govern us under that same Constituation and someone has to wake up the populace to the fact or we might as well all just go to the barbecue and STFU..
Amidst all the death and heartache of a real prolonged armed conflict, I think the sweetest and most satisfying part will be when people like Maher are dragged from their gated communities and hanged by true Americans. Bet it’ll be hard to scoff then.
I find it funny how these sub-humans are willfully ignorant of exactly how much of a threat a domestic, guerrilla, sabotage-based resistance can be. They know very well how effective it is because it’s been proven in the middle east, not to mention we recently saw how ludicrously inept LEO are in Boston. Using Waco as an example is stupid. Yes, I concede, a group of idiots who decide to barricade themselves and get surrounded by the LEO will lose. But that’s not how wars are fought today.
They know it. They know it very well, they simply choose to blissfully ignore it.
They know it.
I’m not sure that Maher could wipe his @ss without an instruction book.
I can’t let a comment like this stand without saying something. I won’t find it sweet or satisfying if an armed mob were to drag someone from his home and lynch him, even an idiot like Maher. Thinking of people you disagree with as being “sub-human” is exactly how otherwise good people end up committing horrible atrocities.
I actually agree with you that an armed citizenry (many of whom veterans with combat experience) could indeed stand up to an oppressive government. But violence should only be used defensively, to protect your natural rights against a tyrannical force attempting to deny you them, not against loud-mouthed fools acting peacefully.
Very well stated.
I wish a lot more TTAG readers thought like you.
not against loud-mouthed fools acting peacefully.
Except they’re not acting peacefully, they’re asking armed thugs to commit acts of violence against us.
Totenglocke: There’s a big difference between expressing political ideas and inciting violence. I don’t think there’s any doubt here that Maher was engaged in protected speech, the cornerstone of a free society.
Kokesh once organized a “Veterans for Ron Paul” march on the White House. It was moving and impressive, but it got almost zero press. What he’s proposing here goes way beyond that — seems like a really bad idea.
I have to agree Ben – Not only is there huge potential for a false-flag event or setup, but suppose they do start arresting people? What do the protesters do? Do you muzzle sweep them the way you KNOW they are going to be pointing at you? Do you actually start detaining and disarming the police, since you’re on equal footing for once? Obviously not – the results would be disastrous. So what point does it really make having the rifles with you other than to make really good stock photos for the anti-gunners to use in their “public service announcements” that Bloomberg pays for??
And once you’re arrested, you can be guaranteed you’d lose your license to carry for the rest of your life, and they would confiscate your expensive rifle. I mean, the backlog for Lewis Machine and Tool is like 3 years at this point so even if you’re not put on the “prohibited” list, you won’t be buying a new one anytime soon.
I see a million different down-sides and no real upside.
Civil disobedience would be better effected by walking into the city with a thousand people holding 30 round magazines (only!). That would show the idiocy of such laws, and could not be painted as an insurrection.
You know empty magazines might be a much better form of civil disobedience.
The provocateur, Kokesh, is very dangerous for all involved on any side.
IF this actually happens, I believe it WILL turn violent, unfortunately.
I love liberty describe myself as a libertarian, but I am not ready for armed demonstration under today’s government or political climate to sacrifice more of my rights.
You can bet your ass DHS, FBI, ATF, and DCPD not including the National Guard will be at the other side of that bridge, if they get that far.
I like the idea Kokesh has. I just believe it is inevitable going to mar gun advocates and the 2nd Amendment. There will be kooks marching and kooks on the governments side too. This march will will spell casualty. Storming of the Bastille anyone?
Imagine a guy gets pepper sprayed, a kook shoots on either side, or someone is intoxicated suddenly accidental discharge: OH F^CK!
I mean will they even be able to walk a mile without an accidental discharge?
I’d be more worried about a member of some government agency infiltrating the group, and purposely firing off a shot to make it turn into a shootout. The media would spin it like they where some sort of white supremacist/radical conservative militia that tried to take over D.C, and we would all see massive sweeping gun control legislation, and potentially that civil conflict that everyone seems to be expecting.
I’ve considered this too. The problem is in finding someone willing to go on what will be a suicide mission.
One thing to note, DC holds the national celebration for independence day on the 4th. There is already going to be hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people on the mall waiting for the fireworks. 1000 armed guys marching in from VA aren’t going to get into the city, the place is already locked down by the cops. If this march gets started, I’d be stunned if it makes it across the bridge.
I wonder if Maher laughed when McVie took half the Murrow bld off? What can poor helpless mice do against the all powerfull guberment. O seems to want to find out, I would rather have peace, Randy
This is not a good idea – many things can go wrong. And it will be horrible PR for the pro-gun side if something goes wrong, regardless of who is at fault. The media will sympathize with G-20 style burning & looting, but OFWG with loaded weapons will get zero sympathy.
(Sidebar: Understand that the DC police are notoriously trigger happy – much more so than the NYPD).
A better idea, (partially borrowed from the David Gregory comments above):
a) Get a permit for a protest.
b) ‘Encourage’ everyone to bring a 20+ round EMPTY magazine and a picture of David Gregory.
c) Try to get 1000+ people peacefully arrested for said magazine ‘crime’. (This is the ‘civil disobedience’ part.)
d) Petition the next GOP presidential field for a pardon for the “David Gregory 1000.”
Adam Kokesh is a good man to have nothing to do with. Here is a letter from a former member of Iraq Veterans Against the War:
This stunt is probably a ploy on his part to damage the cause of Second Amendment Rights. Media(propagandaist) coverage will use his march in Obama’s 2014 Take Back Congress campaign.
I agree that the march is a terrible idea, but what makes you think that Adam is an agent provocateur? He’s always seemed completely sincere to me, even if his politics are kinda out there.
As for Bill Maher saying the Second Amendment cannot protect the people from a tyrannical government: I say “Chris Dorner”. Chris Dorner singlehandedly defied the power of an intense government manhunt for 10 days, tying up thousands of police officers. In those 10 days, Dorner made incredibly stupid mistakes that should have gotten him caught much sooner, yet the “winner and still champion” government failed to do so.
Not to mention that a 19 year old unarmed kid with no training whatsoever kept something like 10,000 LEOs busy for a day in Boston and shut down a whole region.
But you’re right – Dorner is a better example of what a competent person can do against an army of incompetent people.
Never heard of kokesh.
Bill Maher conveniently “forgot” about the battle of athens, tennessee in 1946.
Its okay bill, nobody takes you seriously anyways.
and the Taliban and Iraqi Insurgents have mauled and bankrupted the most powerful war machine in the planet. ..being armed with rifles and home made bombs.
Seriously, does this douchebag even think before he says anything?
Correct! Kokesh is not a good spokesman for anything decent. Between criminal allegations and all the nastiness he was involved with at IVAW (search http://www.thisainthell.us for tons of details), anything associated with him is tainted from the start…and that’s assuming his intentions are good in the first place. Having seen his actions over the last several years, my first thought is that’s a too-large leap of faith. He may be a useful idiot for some causes, but not for any of mine.
Been hearing about this kind of event being planned by at least one other group….. usually in pressured speech and followed to references of “tree of liberty” and “watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants”……
Not a huge fan of this guy, but I am glad he exists.
A true act of civil disobedience would be a citizens’ march with unloaded rifles. That is sufficient to make the point. No ammunition is needed to violate the dc ordinance. 1000 armed men?. Kokesh is counting on on a massacre to start a revolution. If he is successful there won’t be a revolution. Obama will use it to take away our gun rights. I hope Virginia LEOs stop this in it’s tracks.
This isn’t the time for armed conflict!!! Why do so many people think it is?! Jesus, conflict is the LAST RESORT, not the second hand!
And we wonder why the left thinks we are crazy and blood thirsty..
While I agree that I don’t want anything violent to happen either, what would the conditions need to be for you to say it *is* time for an armed conflict? I’m not trying to bust your balls, I’m genuinely curious. Is it when an assault weapons ban or confiscation (no grandfathering) is about to go into affect? Because once that happens, you lose the chance to do ANYTHING and it’s all over. I agree that this isn’t the time, but when *is* the time?
Way back when, it was when the Red Coats were marching on Concord to confiscate the colonist’s weapons, which to me seems like the modern day equivalent of an assault weapons confiscation.
Or the Blue Jackets marching on Georgia? That didn’t end well, you should remember.
Reading all these comments supporting this oxygen thief makes my brain hurt.
Seriously, this is why antis think we are all nuts. I was raised to believe violence is only necessary when all other options have failed. Idk if others here had different upbringing or if some ,to be quite frank, actually want to be violent…but I don’t support this in any form. We still have options. This guy is the radical that MSM thinks ALL OF US are. Shoot first, diplomacy and legal proceedings later.
There are COUNTLESS ways this could go wrong. I ask you supporters, how many ways can this go right??
This is, without doubt, an absolutely terrible idea. I’ll point out one thing though — unlike any of the gun control groups I’ve tried to engage with on Facebook, right now there’s a large active thread on this guy’s FB page started by an opponent. It hasn’t been deleted and there are antis posting way down the thread.
Somebody supports free speech, somebody else doesn’t…
Just gives them more of an excuse for disarmament. It will not open eyes or prove a point, just cause a drastic number of people jumping ship to the other side. Will not work. Can not work. It would do way more damage than any form of good. So done with this crap. Keep pushing people away!
the 1934 National Firearms Act, which effectively bans or regulates almost all weapons capable of piercing heavy armour, was the direct result of an UNarmed march on D.C. called the “Bonus Army March”, and which was ended violently by the government. afterwards the government realized that, had the veterans not decided to come unarmed, the Bonus Army could have easily overthrown the government. thus began the long slippery civilian disarmament slope to where we are now, with the Militia effectively neutered; the most effective weapons that us peasants are allowed to own being rifles.
this has proven that unarmed protest before a government that couldn’t give less of a damn about what The People want is pointless. armed protest without the weapons that would allow the protestors to win should things turn violent is even worse; not only would we loose 1000+ patriots in a savage bloodbath, but the media would give it all the slant needed to convince each and every person still on the fence to jump off onto the left side.
no, the time for verbal protest has come and passed. if you haven’t already, read Unintended Consequences by John Ross, and take a lesson from him. “by their works shall ye know them”.
Unfortunately, the cause of the “Bonus Army” is criminally similar to the cause of veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan today. Iraq and Afghanistan veterans have to wait over a year to receive disability compensation from the Department of Veterans Affairs. The VA has an astonishing error rate for claims. Over 50 percent of claims are appealed, which starts the year long wait to process paperwork over again for those veterans who have to appeal.
Not only does the government infringe on our constitutional rights, that same government has started the Korean War, Vietnam War, Iraq War, and Afghanistan War without a clear strategy for victory. Since World War II, our country has yet to win a war that we start. Our veterans have suffered tremendously for the dubious justifications for the wars we have fought in since World War II. With the way our country has treated veterans in the 20th century and 21st century, they should overthrow the government.
In the end though the march had political consequences:
“The Bonus Army incident proved disastrous for Hoover’s chances at re-election; he lost the 1932 election in a landslide to Franklin D. Roosevelt.”
Here we have brave men who are ready and willing to put their very lives on the line in defiance of tyranny yet they’re ridiculed by supposed freedom lovers and 2A “supporters.”
We really are fvcked!
“We’d get the same old story, “it is unclear as to who fired first” or “witnesses claim angry protesters fired first”, no matter what really happens.”
Exactly. This march would be suicide. Forming up almost anywhere around a bridge from VA to DC would mean using Federally-owned or leased property. Do it with a loaded weapon and you committed a Federal felony; hello DHS. March into DC with a loaded gun, and again you walk across Federal property; hello DHS and MPD. And it won’t matter who fired first; the LEOs/Feds win and the armed citizens (painted insurrectionists by the worldwide press) will be slaughtered. Seems to me it will work out as well as the last time after WWI.
Here’s a fun lil’ exercise in taking the fantasy to its full run:
The theme of this article is “liberal pantywaist”. No answer is ever the right one, according to people like you– the ones that would rather us stay quiet in the corner and whisper, “You’re walking on our rights. Please stop. Please stop. Please stop”, all the while the country continues deeper into an inescapable black hole. It is because of people like you and attitudes like yours– ones that say, “Well, it’s the law”– that we are in this situation to begin with. And remember, if it wasn’t for people willing to stand up to tyranny, you wouldn’t even exist. I do agree though, this could end very badly. It is a perfect time for the feds to pull something that could set off a deadly chain of events.
I expect a negative outcome if this goes on.
“Non-violent civil disobedience” is a good tactic, and has been developed pretty well. But it is solely for disarmed people. The left/pacifist crowd uses it all the time, often to good effect; however, they use it because they think guns are evil tools and have disarmed themselves.
Yes, the famous Gandhi used non-violent civil disobedience, because being disarmed is the situation into which he was forced by circumstances; the British had disarmed the Indian people. If the Indian folks had guns, Gandhi may well have used them. He says so.
“Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.” ~Mohandas Gandhi, Autobiography: The Story of My Experiments with Truth , page 446
Again, and you can read their own literature, it’s a great tactic for disarmed people.
But it’s a horrible tactic for armed people.
It accomplishes exactly the wrong things like starting a Fort Sumter or getting guns confiscated, lives ruined by arrest, jail, carry permits yanked.
Those are bad, but the worst outcome being a demonstration of the ineffectiveness of arms.
If shooting does break out by accident, the marchers are going to be decimated. The American Revolutionary soldiers of 1776 may has well have announced a date upon which they would march armed into some British stronghold, just to prove how the Redcoats should respect them.
Non-violent tactics do work and firearms do work; however, they do NOT mix well.
Sometimes “Discretion is Valor”. I think a loaded rifle on the 4ht of July into the heart of the beast is not the best idea, and it will just give the media and more to salivate over when they present it to the low-information voter. Unloaded weapons? Ok. Waving around standard round magazines full of ammo? Sure. Locked and loaded firearms? I don’t think we are at that point yet. It’s all about proportionality, and it’s a fine line you have to toe to sometimes.
Kind of a tangent, but I wonder what the OathKeepers stance is on this issue. If there are any OKs on the DC police force, would they stand down? Would they join in?
Just curious – I don’t really expect an answer, especially not from an OathKeeper, but I feel like this is *exactly* the kind of thing OathKeepers are there for.
“What’s better than a bunch of libertarians marching around D.C. carrying loaded rifles? How about a like-minded group walking past the monuments the day before, but in a demonstration that’s actually legal.”
I think Kokesh knows full well that they will never get to organize, much less get across the Potomac. If this goes bad, it will happen at the gathering point, where DHS, et al will be waiting in force to disarm everyone.