Screen capture by Boch via NY Post.
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Australians suffered through a government-mandated gun confiscation in 1996 after the Port Arthur shooting. That nation’s leaders pounded their lecterns saying the forced confiscations were necessary to prevent gun homicides including mass murders.  In the years since, supporters of gun confiscation call it “incredibly successful in terms of lives saved.”

From the Pennsylvania Capital Star:

Let’s move to Australia, where they confiscate weapons of mass murder 
The Australian reform law has been, in the words of a 2011 Harvard study, ‘incredibly successful in terms of lives saved’

Despite that massive gun confiscation of almost all firearms, not just “weapons of mass murder,” six people were shot to death, including two young police officers in a stand-off Monday evening.

One of the suspects was a former school principal named Nathaniel Train. Police ended up shooting and killing him, his brother and his sister-in-law. The police are tight-lipped about how the trio secured their weapons and ammunition, most long banned in Oz.

The incident began when police showed up at a remote property doing a welfare check on Mr. Train. Two were shot right away. Two more narrowly escape with their lives.

From the New York Post . . .

Six people, including two cops, were killed in an hourslong standoff in a remote area of Australia on Monday night.

Four officers from the Tara Police Station had arrived to a property in rural Wieambilla in Queensland around 4:45 p.m. to investigate a report of a missing person, Queensland Police confirmed early Tuesday.

Constables Matthew Arnold, 26, and Rachel McCrow, 29, were shot and killed as they approached the address, authorities said. A third officer was injured.

The shooting gave way to six-hour siege, during which the suspects killed neighbor Alan Sure, 58, who came over to investigate the commotion, officials said.

One thing’s for certain: expect the American media and gun control advocates to cover this story. With a pillow. It directly contradicts the narrative of the success of the kinds of “solutions” to “gun violence” the anti-gun left and the media (BIRM) push so hard.

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119 COMMENTS

  1. “Let’s move to Australia, where they confiscate weapons of mass murder ”

    Go! Go quickly and let the door hit you on your ass really hard as you leave. Don’t come back we aren’t worthy of your presence.

    • The heartbreaking part…Matthew Arnold, 26, and Rachel McCrow, 29, and their neighbor Alan Sure, 58 were killed. Nice neighbors I guess…

      • The first two were police officers responding to a missing persons call out. One of the perps had not contacted family in NSW since October. It is thought he reported himself at the property as a trap.

      • The death of the young female officer strikes me as particularly sad. Call me misguided if you like, but I think she should have been at home as a tender mother of young children rather than engaging in gun battles as a police officer.

        • Lay this at the feet of the Women’s Liberation movement.

          Women wanted to be entirely equal to men. Now Women die in combat and Men compete in formerly women-only sports.

          They made this bed – they can lie in it.

        • zerofoo,
          Real men protect real women. This woman wanted to protect her fellow citizens. Unless you have information that I don’t then take a step back and find out what her family has to say.

        • The feminist movement, one tenet of cultural Marxism, has convinced most women that to stay at home and raise a family is outdated and stupid. When in reality, that is the only thing that has ever truly given women true happiness. By the time they are in their 30s and want to settle down, they are less fertile, less desirable, and all of the good men are taken. All they have is their meaningless $60k/yr email jobs making PowerPoints, trying to be a girlboss. No wonder they all take antidepressants.

  2. Biden is worried about “Assault Rifles” of which cause less than 200 deaths every year, meanwhile, 300 Americans are killed EVERY DAY with DRUGS. Gun control doesn’t work because it’s not about gun control, it’s about freedom control. Don’t ever give up your guns, learn from Australia’s mistakes.

    • The fact that our media doesn’t put the equivalence of an airliner crash each and every day front and center in their reporting just pisses me off to no end. But it does let you know their true agenda. It’s all about complete control.

  3. @John Boch

    “One thing’s for certain: expect the American media and gun control advocates to cover this story. With a pillow. It directly contradicts the narrative of the success of the kinds of “solutions” to “gun violence” the anti-gun left and the media (BIRM) push so hard.”

    John, I respectfully disagree with your surmise. I think our MSM and the Left will double down on “See, if we take ALL private weapons, leaving none in private hands, then and only then can we be SAFE in the USA from the evil of guns and the violence they generate. If this requires door to door searches and confiscation then so be it!”

    Please tell me that I’m wrong in my assumption.

    • And how many more police would be killed in those door to door searches and confiscation? This incident took two of them, and they were there for an entirely different reason.

      • Right… see how Bruen is being made a joke by so many states now? SCOTUS have to enforcement arm that is NOT under the complete control of the other two branches of giovernment.. th two that REALLY REALLY want us all disarmed, subservient, gelded, securely warehoused.

  4. You’re almost a week late on this one.

    Still no word on what the shooters used. But it is well guessed there will be collective punishment through regulation change coming into the states of Queensland, New South Wales, Victoria, and Western Australia. The last state is known for overly punitive gun laws and never passes an opportunity to make them more strict.

    • Sorry to hear about this. Both pictures of the two police killed show that they were young. I really don’t have any answers but it does cause me to ponder about nations that have strict gun control. Are the police, like these two, lured into a false sense of safety? The perception I get from our media is that NZ, Australia, Japan ect are all more safe utopias, I know they are not in reality. Are the people themselves lured into condition white most of the time? As I said it makes me wonder.

      • “Are the police, like these two, lured into a false sense of safety?”

        Absolutely Manse, absolutely.
        Heartbreaking that these two lost their lives and while age shouldn’t matter 26 and 29 years old…crying.

    • the only way I an imgine that would surly remove all guns from privat hands would be to assign a government owned custodian to every adtult male or adolescent and most adult females. Anythong short of that would be wide open with “loopholes”. The next step in the escalation ladder would be tall multilayer concertina topped (and I AN’T talking about a musical instrument here….) fenced enclosure and all the above mentioned classes would be restricted to within that perimeter. Always. They would control every aspect of our lives “undt ve vill LIKE it.” (until we don’t…..)

      • They could always hire 350 million Chinese and assign one to every American (make mine one of those tall long-legged females please) to monitor 24 hours a day… It would barely put a noticeable dent in their population…

  5. FOUR cops for a nosy nelly BS “welfare check”? What is the REAL story/rationalization?

    Once Great Britain – where there are no God given rights (or Bill of Rights).

  6. Steel yourselves. With the lingering effects of the pandemic and a recession likely to strike early next year, the situation will probably get even more wonky, with lots of shootings.

    However ….

    Do. Not. Give. Up. Your. Guns.

    If we lose those, we’ve lost everything.

  7. Correction

    Because of the usual T Tag propaganda and outright lies let us get the story correctly. Only 3 people were killed, one neighbor and 2 cops, the other 3 killed were the 3 criminals in the home that were shooting at the cops.

    Three murdered in a mass shooting is an everyday occurance in Capitalvania but very rare in Australia.

    And yes the Australian gun ban was very successful as history has proven.

    quote from the original article that T Tag did not print

    quote from the original undoctored article—————-“Tragically, this is the largest loss of life the QPS has suffered in one single incident in recent times.————–quote

    • Nothing was proven, dacian. Tell me one incident that was prevented by a gun ban. All we know for sure is that no 0ne has committed a mass murder in a while. Why and for what reasons is just guesswork.

      But if you were educated you would understand that.

    • dacian the demented dips***,

      What’s the murder rate in OZ??? What’s the murder rate in the US, OUTSIDE of “deep blue” shithole cities like NY, Philly, St. Louis, etc. Oh, you don’t know, or are you just too much of a lying f***ing coward to say???

      Eat feces and expire, you brainless toad.

  8. It is settled science….gun control works, if people will just obey the law.

    Laws aren’t the problem; people are the problem. Entirely too much freedoming going on in America.

    • Dacian knows the “final solutions”. Eliminate gun violence by eliminating gun owners. If people are the problem, eliminate the people to eliminate the problem.

    • “Laws aren’t the problem; people are the problem.”

      Yeah a bit of both actually. Laws are the problem so we won’t follow them anymore. And the people…who gives a fuck about the people. We will force you to comply as we take away any tools that you may have had to protect yourselves. All you have to do Is go back to the New York “Bogata” owner’s actions in protecting himself. You don’t get to protect yourself that’s our job and if you do it incorrectly the full force of the bureaucracy will slammed onto your head. And if we aren’t there to protect you in the moment then just shut up and die quietly please. Don’t make waves you idiot we are really annoyed when that happens.

        • Come on Mad!
          Not until that man was put through the ringer ar Rikers Island and only after a huge public outcry.
          The quotes around bogata were a shout out to that bitch doctor jill, you know the fucking moron that was talking about breakfast taco’s?

        • I’m sorry Mad,
          Sometimes my thoughts don’t translate to my true meaning without context. That is my failure not the readers. Something that I need to make clear.

        • I caught the “Bogata” thing but she called it a BogeDah, which IS (even if SLIGHTLY) a difference in meaning and context. One is a REAL word/place, the other was just typical stupid made-up mumbo-jumbo we’ve come to expect from the “elite” Brandon and company which would include Jill, Kamalltoe and the illustrious intellectual Karine Jean-Pierre…

        • “One is a REAL word/place, the other was just typical stupid made-up mumbo-jumbo we’ve come to expect from the “elite” Brandon and company which would include Jill, Kamalltoe and the illustrious intellectual Karine Jean-Pierre…”

          Absolutely MAD! Absolutely…

    • Anyone who thinks that Western governments give a flying fuck about common people is either a complete moron or just woke up from a multi-year coma.

      One might be, in some cases, forgiven for trusting government up until 2020. After that, you’ve pretty much gotta be stupid to believe anything they say without demanding an absolute mountain of evidence.

      And even then, best case, 25% chance they’re telling the truth.

      Governments are made of people. This institution attracts and selects for two distinct types of people. The honest and intelligent who really want to make the world a better place and the people who want power and are good at appearing to be the former group.

      95% of government, for pretty much all of recorded history, is made up of the latter group. Especially in Republics and Democracies. The Athenians knew the solution to this, and the practice is where we get the word “ostracize”.

    • Gipper

      Yes Australia officially has more firearms now than pre semi auto rifle ban. Supposed to have been 3 million and now about 4 million a few years ago.

      I live in rural Queensland and there are 6 gun shops within an hour of me. Two opened in the last two years. Local hardware shop sells ammo but not firearms.

      Usual control idiots are on tv saying we need new laws and lying about the existing ones.

  9. Even before the explosion of ‘3D printed guns’ australia has had a long standing issue with criminal gangs using homemade guns. Usually things like MAC-11s amd TEC-9 copies. No idea if they were used in this event, but it still proved the reality that You Can’t Stop The Signal

    • It was a rural property. Farmers can claim “primary producer” status to get a license. But one of the perps smuggled guns in from interstate driving through covid lockdown barriers. QLD cops didn’t act on this.

      • driving through covid lockdown barriers.

        Fukz a “covid lockdown barrier”? In fact, what is a “covid lockdown”? Inquiring minds in FL want to know…

        • The AU went full speed authoritarian during the covid scamdemic. They pulled a china and were tried to enforce a ‘zero covid’ plan where if anyone caught it they would lock down your entire state. They banned travel between states, they made everyone install a phone app that monitors everywhere you go, slamming people who resisted with multi thousand dollar fines for each infraction, and started throwing people suspect of being exposed into covid concentration camps.

        • Yeah, heard something about that thought someone was pitching a new psychodrama or a dystopian Sci-Fi flick, shit like that can’t happen in a free and democratic society, right?

    • I’ve read credible reports of large scale importing operations bringing in chinese militery weapons through the sparsely populated and very wet northern parts of the country, thus avoiding customs agents, and then trans-shipping them in small lots to the rest of the country.

      Da gummit dweebs just CANNOT seem to wrap their putty-filled heads round the concept that guns ARE here to stay, and no amount of outlawing, banning, restricting, prohibiting, buying back, or badmouthing the hardware will change a thing. One of the surest ways to increase possession of any given item is to ban it.

  10. When I was in the Army I knew a guy briefly. A few months before he was to ETS. We were at Hunter A.A.F. in Savannah. Every day he would ride his speed racer bicycle around Perimeter Rd. Twelve miles as I recall. No matter what we had done for training that day. He intended to ride that bicycle across Australia. Damndest thing is that he had a Colt Series 70 Combat Government model he was going to carry on the ride. Showed me the paperwork from the Australian Embassy granting permission to enter the country and carry the pistol. Good luck with that today.

  11. The police are tight-lipped about how the trio secured their weapons and ammunition

    Probably shipped in from Indiana or Ohio, right dacian?

  12. They always have the “would’ve been worse” card to play though that one has been taking a beating lately thanks to the clot shot.

  13. There are numerous Aussie police who made their mark during the lockdowns whose deaths would being me hours of warm feelings.

  14. It’s still legal to own firearms in Australia, though much more difficult since Port Arthur. In 2020 there were:

    868,110 licensed gun owners
    (3.41% of the population)
    3,518,0251 registered guns
    13.8 registered guns per 100 people

    • And if all my money wasn’t going to gun purchases I would put some on the fact that Australia will use this tragedy to significantly cut into that 3,518,0251 number, this is what happens when you comply with registration.

  15. Read the back story. He left his job across the continent because he disagreed with the education system and left. He was then “missing “ for nearly a year before this event transpired across Australia in a different state. I’m just curious as fonhow often cops enter private property with no warrant or exigent circumstance for a missing person reported across the county. Maybe he just wanted to be left alone. The ambush plot seems harder to believe with somehow getting his brother’s wife involved

    • The perps were avowed “sovereign citizen” types, anti-vaxxers, and active on conspiracy theory forums. A bunch of right loonies who unfortunately had guns.

        • You know the drill, anyone who disagrees with the progressive left overlords is a “right wing looney”… Like that Ultra MAGA crowd… anti-vaxxers, conspiracy theory forums (it’s only a conspiracy “theory” til it’s proven), sovereign citizens? Sounds like about 90% of the people I ride with…

      • @Southern Cross
        Just the type of people to make friends with. Why call the cops when you can call up nutty friends to do your dirty work.

      • I suppose “Proper Loonies” might be a better term. But still loonies.

        What did they think was going to happen when they killed 2 police officers?

        They would spark a statewide, nationwide, or international revolution?

        “Tightening” gun laws is across several stated already being mentioned.

        And if a car with interstate plates is found abandoned with guns, ammunition, knives, and accessories is found during lockdown and the report is not acted on, it makes me wonder what QLD cops think is unusual.

    • “I’m just curious as fonhow often cops enter private property with no warrant or exigent circumstance for a missing person reported across the county.”

      I haven’t been to Australia in a quite a number of years and this isn’t a part of their system I have any real familiarity with.

      But given how this demonstrably works in the UK, US, Germany, France, Netherlands etc… maybe TPTB just made it up?

      That’s not to say they went after the guy in some sort of assassination type thing, but something happens, goes pear shaped and they just decide to tell a convenient lie. It wouldn’t be the first time.

      • 4 cops in 2 cars went in. Rural cops are often bored so they used it as a chance to get out of the station.

        They did honk the horn to announce their presence. When the ambush happened, two police were badly wounded and then given execution shots. One got hit in the leg but managed to get back over the gate and drove off. The fourth ran into the bush. The perps tried to start a bushfire to flush her out. She managed to escape.

        • As I said above, I instinctually believe exactly none of that.

          I believe that’s the story being told. I don’t believe that’s what really happened until a large amount of actual evidence is presented.

          Governments state incorrect information/lie by default. Cops are agents of the government.

          Sometimes those lies are malicious, sometimes they’re not. Sometimes the misinformation is an accident, sometimes it’s not.

          If you think that’s paranoid, try reading a history book.

          The absolute best I can say for government is that it’s run like a mid-sized company’s HR department. It’s barely competent on a good day. Where it does show competence, generally, it doesn’t do so in areas beneficial to the people the government is in charge of.

      • Who sicced the cops on them? and for what trumped up reason? Only the survivors can be interviewed. We’ll never know the truth.

  16. Gun grabbers can go pound sand. Gun control is about CONTROL and POWER. If they really gave a fat flying bat shit about saving lives, they’d tackle TOBACCO which kills over 24,000 Australians each and every year.

  17. “The Australian reform law has been, in the words of a 2011 Harvard study, ‘incredibly successful in terms of lives saved’”

    That is actually not true. The murder rate rose shortly after passage and then decreased. The rate of decrease was slower than places that had less restrictive gun laws. Again, gun control focuses on the wrong people. It focuses on people that have not and never will become a violent criminal.

  18. Honestly, after the past couple of years why would anyone care if cops get killed?

    No troll, serious question. I don’t care how cute the puppies are. They’re not cops. The puppies didn’t spend nearly two full years oppressing the fuck out of people, he did. Or he saw what the cops were doing and wanted some of that.

    I’m not advocating violence against the police but I’m not advocating against it either. Fuck them. Really, if they get clipped I care about as much as they would if I got clipped. Not at fucking all.

  19. blew your credibility in the opening statements, it’s pretty clear you have zero idea what the real gun ownership situation is in Australia and are just parroting the same BS memes that get trotted out every time Australia gets mentioned. Do any of you clowns ever do any research at all?

    • The opening statement to this article is a bit hyperbolic but it’s not really incorrect. Australia did, in fact, have what might be called a “more permissive” set of gun laws back before Port Arthur.

      Most people on TTAG are aware that Australia allows gun ownership, people here just think that it’s overly restrictive because most people here believe in very little or no government control over firearms (or other weapons, depending on who you talk to).

      It’s an argument mostly centered around types of permissible weapons and the psychology/morality of a country that allows its government to dictate what a private citizen can and cannot own with regard to projectile weaponry. It’s not an argument that there are no legally own, privately held firearms in Australia.

      If you want the argument that guns are entirely banned, you can go check out Lefty websites which are home a lot of readership that believe that Australia has banned guns entirely and that this is fan-fuckin-tastic. They believe the same thing about most other countries that they fetishize, like Germany, NZ and the UK. These are the same people who believe that Canada and NZ have entirely open borders too and are therefore constantly “threatening” to move to one of those countries because big, bad Rightwing fascists lurk around every corner.

      • We’re not quite down the Canada path yet.

        They have banned the Ruger No1 because someone somewhere made one in 460 Weatherby Magnum (not Ruger). Little Napoleon’s government thinks that is TOO powerful with over 10,000 ftlbs of energy. So they banned them all.

        • Weatherby web page says “Introduced in 1959. Considered to be the world’s largest, most powerful shoulder-fired cartridge, the 460 shoots a 500 grain bullet at 2,600 fps, delivering an incredible (their words) 7,507 foot pounds of muzzle energy”. A tad shy of that 10,000…

        • Still too powerful for the Canadian government.

          I was going with the numbers I saw on the video.

      • And as for immigration, it has to be applied for. Skilled migrants get preference. L3ftists agitators are not needed. We have enough already.

        Enter illegally or overstay your visa, and you will discover the “Pacific Solution” with an extended stay in Nauru. At your own expense.

        • with an extended stay in Nauru.

          You make that sound like a bad thing, how could a place known as “Pleasant Island” be other than a fun place. Island girls, small population, what’s not like?

        • Having actually traveled extensively and lived all over the world to boot, unlike the American Left, I don’t need an explanation of the fact that one cannot simply buy a plane ticket and “move” to the countries I have listed.

          The Left believes this. Most of the American Right does not.

  20. Well if people bother to listen to the head of Australia FEDERAL LEO”s!!

    Australia is awash in FULL AUTO weapons and the criminals and gangs have zero problems getting them.. Price on the black market has dramatically tanked for full auto weapons!!!

    More automatic weapons are seized then semi auto’s since the ban..

    Before the ban they were intercepting more semi auto weapons, which was easier to blend into the gun scene, after the ban they just outright started smuggling full auto weapons..

  21. “The Australian reform law has been, in the words of a 2011 Harvard study, ‘incredibly successful in terms of lives saved’ ”

    (it is a very broad statement for a reason; It does not take into account the overall increase in crime with actual unbiased data, the statement is designed to leave an impression the gun ban worked and it hasn’t just like its not worked in other countries that have gun bans. Its wording tricks like this that are used to leave/give a false impression that gun bans work)

    The 2011 Harvard study is false – the 2011 study has been debunked for different reasons, one of which was intentional exclusion of data points by use of anti-gun suppressing data that was bought forth in previous studies.. such as, for example, the below:

    An overlooked and anti-gun suppressed study from Harvard in 2007, which was removed from public view by anti-gun interests – the results of which have been forbidden by every anti-gun study since to leave out data so the anti-gun study was as biased as possible to reach a per-determined conclusion – and only in the last few years was allowed to re-appear when it was re-discovered even though originally posted in 2007 … > Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International Evidence > https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=998893 > and at the time of the study, when actual data is used and the study is inclusive for causality factors…

    1. Factual error and misconceptions have led to the lie that the U.S. has the world’s highest murder rate, actually this lie originated from the Cold War when Russia murder rates were about four times higher than American rates. A strategic disinformation campaign started and was successful in duping a lot of people into believing that the U.S. is a gunslinging nightmare of street violence. Even in the many years after Russia went through with banning firearms, their crime rates remain significantly higher than America. Kates and Mauser said in their study, “Homicide results suggest that where guns are scarce, other weapons are substituted in killings.” (note: a tactic still employed today by anti-gun by use of rhetoric and biased stats and disingenuous use of wording/terms, for example, ‘homicide’)

    2. The UN’s Economic and Social Council and the United Nations Commission on Crime-Prevention and Criminal Justice did a study on firearms regulation and found some astonishing discoveries. “Norway, Finland, Germany, France and Denmark, which have high rates of gun ownership, have low murder rates. On the other hand, in Luxembourg, where handguns are totally banned and ownership of any kind of gun is minimal, the murder rate is nine times higher than Germany.”

    3. When England is compared with the United States, they found “’a negative correlation,’ that is, ‘where firearms are most dense violent crime rates are lowest, and where guns are least dense, violent crime rates are highest.’ There is no consistent significant positive association between gun ownership levels and violence rates.”

    4. “In 2004, the U.S. National Academy of Sciences released an evaluation from its review of existing research. After reviewing 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and its own original empirical research, it failed to identify any gun control that had reduced violent crime, suicide, or gun accidents.”

    5. Somehow, it goes unreported that despite constant and substantially increasing gun ownership, the United States saw progressive and dramatic reductions in criminal violence, … On the other hand, the same time period in the United Kingdom saw a constant and dramatic increase in violent crime to which England’s response was ever-more drastic gun control. Nevertheless, criminal violence rampantly increased so that by 2000 England surpassed the United States to become one of the developed world’s most violence-ridden nations. However despite these glaring facts, a law was passed in California that used $24 million to expedite the process of taking 40,000 firearms purchased legally (yes boys and girls firearms confiscation happened again in the United States and it slid through un-noticed because California claimed these were prohibited persons who had legally purchased at one point but became prohibited after that legal purchase before becoming a prohibited person – no due process was allowed).

    6. The worst top three school shootings occurred in Western Europe; in Erfurt (Germany), Dunblane (Scotland) and Winnenden (Germany). Columbine in the U.S. was number four. (at time of the study)

    7. A study by the Media Research Center concluded media coverage of firearms is overwhelmingly biased. In a recent period, “television networks collectively aired 514 anti-gun stories, to a mere 46 that were pro-firearm, a ratio of more than 11-to-1 against firearms.

    8. Almost every mass shooting that has occurred in the United States since 1950 has taken place in a state with strict gun control laws. With just one exception, every public mass shooting in the USA since at least 1950 has taken place where citizens are banned from carrying guns. The United States is Number 1 in the world in gun ownership, and yet it is only 28th in the world in gun murders per 100,000 people. Overall, guns in the United States are used 80 times more often to prevent crime than they are to take lives.

    9. Down in Australia, gun murders increased by about 19 % and armed robberies increased by about 69 % after a gun ban was instituted. (note: its still like this today in 2022 when actual data unbiased and causality is used). The city of Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the United States. So has this reduced crime? The murder rate in Chicago was about 17 percent higher in 2012 than it was in 2011, and Chicago is now considered to be “the deadliest global city,” After the city of Kennesaw, Georgia passed a law requiring every home to have a gun, the crime rate dropped by more than 50 percent over the course of the next 23 years and there was an 89 percent decline in burglaries.”

    10. Despite the very strict ban on guns in the UK, the overall rate of violent crime in the UK is about 4 times higher than it is in the United States. In one recent year, there were 2,034 violent crimes per 100,000 people in the UK. In the United States, there were only 466 violent crimes per 100,000 people during that same year. The UK has approximately 125 percent more rape victims per 100,000 people each year than the United States does. The UK has approximately 133 % more assault victims per 100,000 people each year than the United States does. UK has the fourth highest burglary rate in the EU. The UK has the second highest overall crime rate in the EU. (note: its still like this today in 2022 when actual data unbiased and causality is used)

    …. even today these data points areas and causality factors for today’s world are ignored in anti-gun studies, by anti-gun interests, and stats and use of wording/terms to leave/give false impressions.

    • “per-determined” should have been “pre-determined”

      Its what anti-gun studies do, the start with a determined conclusion and design their data use to reach that conclusion – this is why the false logic of ‘correlation = causation’ approach is used in anti-gun studies and by anti-gun so much as it appeals to the sense of ‘hey, looks right’ of the masses who are ignorant of the data trickery being used and the anti-gun study data usage design only works if the false logic is used.

      • New York tried the false logic ‘correlation = causation’ trick in Bruen, SCOTUS saw through it. Its a part of why New York failed in Bruen.

        California tried the false logic ‘correlation = causation’ trick in the cases California “assault weapon” and standard capacity magazine bans cases. It didn’t work to persuade Federal Judge Roger Benitez who saw through it.

        The case in Oregon for 114, the judge there also saw through the false logic ‘correlation = causation’ trick by the state and even cited it as false > https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23461691/opinionletterharneycounty.pdf > (page 18 of 25) with “Correlation does not equal causation.”

    • Never heard of #4 gee I wonder why that is…
      #7 is a given and another reason you won’t hear much of it.

      “After the city of Kennesaw, Georgia passed a law requiring every home to have a gun, the crime rate dropped by more than 50 percent over the course of the next 23 years and there was an 89 percent decline in burglaries.” Sounds unconstitutional but the outcome while not surprising is great.

      See dacian this is how it’s done. Facts and figures that can be verified not the lengthy lies and drivel that you spew because your statements are absolute BS.

    • Actually, more of a “shoot-out” between cops and people who were not cops than an actual “mass shooting”, only non-participant killed was the neighbor…

  22. A few years ago a farmer descended his home with a 22 long rifle. The authorities came and took it away because the farmer stated he was to use it only for varmint control.

  23. Why is the opening comment expressed as if this a every day occurence in Australia when even a fool can check on the web the rarity of such event. There is absolutely no discernible connectiion between AMERICAN GUN CONTROL Measures, or the lack of them a rare event in Aus.
    There is, infact no way that these random acts can be stopped if the perpetrator is sufficiently deterrmined and has access to SHOTGUNS and it’s foollish to suggest differently. But I’d bet that Mr Average American Gun Crank cannot name a single occasion when ther was a mass shooting with shotguns as the principle weapon they’re just not GLAMOUROUS enough

    • “Mr Average American”

      why is it you anti-gun idiots make these broad undefined statements and qualifications? oh wait… its because you guess and don’t know.

      the ‘average’ person of any nationality wouldn’t know.

    • Your comment is awaiting moderation
      Funny you should mention that… Police escort people out of the lobby after a fatal mass shooting at a condominium building in the Toronto suburb of Vaughan, Ontario, Canada on Dec. 19, 2022 (hint: perp used a shotgun, moron) My favorite is the mass killing in Norway with a bow and arrow or how about the mass killings by motor vehicle in France, Germany, England the US? then there’s the daily attacks in London by knife, hatchet and assorted blunt objects… Don’t go away mad moron just go away…

      Fucking “moderated for the fourth time in two hours? What, you don’t “approve” of calling the moronic limey a fucking MORON? Perhaps the moron should STFU or at least take time to understand what exactly it is saying… time to take a couple days off… Later…

      • Nah, Maxx, don’t call Prince Albert the Ponce a f***ing moron . . . that’s an insult to morons everywhere. He, dacian the demented dips***, and Minor Liar are running neck and neck for the Stupid Prize.

    • I’ll bet you, the stupid U.K. subject, doesn’t know how long mass shootings (as we know them today under FBI definition) have been taking place, and the number one country in the world for mass shootings AND mass murder number of victims.

  24. IF you come to take my private property, the same response is proper.
    SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED is wrote large in the USA.
    The Commonwealth countries gave up, or had stolen, their right to self defense. Not at all smart.

      • While I am all in favor of cops doing their ACTUAL job . . . if an adult is “missing”??? Are they being held against their will? If not? None of the government’s goddamn business. I am fully capable of picking up the phone and calling someone if I want to be “found”. If I don’t, perhaps I want you to leave me the hell alone, eh?? Sure, people do get “kidnapped”. Not all that often. if someone is “missing”, they probably WANT to be missing. (The foregoing does not apply to minors, of course.)

  25. ” The police are tight-lipped about how the trio secured their weapons and ammunition, most long banned in Oz.”

    I’m not sure that is correct.

    I DO NOT know what firearms they used; but in Australia semi-auto rifles are extremely heavily restricted and full-Auto non existent. Handguns, 9mm/.357 and smaller are available via a heavily regulated bureaucracy, which many would say is specifically designed to tick off honest shooters, and repeating (bolt/leaver/pump/etc) rifles plus shotguns (not semi-auto or pump) are available via a slightly less heavily regulated bureaucracy; which many would say is specifically designed to tick off honest shooters!

  26. So much BS is spread in America about firearms ownership in Australia. The gun confiscation wasn’t “almost all firearms”, it was semiauto long guns, and large calibre handguns.

    I’m Australian and I own 7 long guns in various calibres and 6 handguns chambered in .38, .357 and 9mm. I have about 4000 rounds of ammunition in a variety of calibres in my safes. My level of firearms ownership is nothing special among the people I associate with. There are hundreds of thousands of other firearms owners like me around the country.

    I shoot about 6000 rounds per year on the range and while hunting.

    It’s not like America, but the idea that almost all firearms have been confiscated here is silly.

  27. When the Australians ban and confiscate all firearms. Which are long-range weapons. Will they then confiscate, ban, and outlaw, the construction of the boomerang???
    Which is also an effective long-range weapon.

  28. Meanwhile in another part of the British Empire. The ruger #1 rifle, a single shot rifle, in 223, is going away. Outlawed. Banned by the Canadian government. video 17 min long

    “Why Does The Government Want To Ban The Ruger No 1? And Why Are They Lying About It?”

  29. FAFO what a bunch of oh shit what do we do now, that this no gun laws don’t work???
    Never give up your guns!!!

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