Given this week’s events and the fact that Las Vegas murderer Stephen Paddock apparently used at least one bump fire-equipped rifle during his Mandalay Bay killing spree, the mainstream media have now become aware of the existence of these niche accessories. Which is why TTAG’s RF and Jeremy S. teamed up with Jason Carter of Underground Tactical this afternoon to educate a CBS News crew on the differences between a bump fire stock and a proper machine gun.
If all goes according to plan, the segment will appear on CBS’s national news broadcast this evening at 6:30p eastern, 5:30p central. Any bets as to the number of mis-stated “facts” in the report?
Aid and comfort to the enemy?
Yep. Like giving food to north korea…. they tell their people its reparations for America’s war guilt. CBS will twist it to their purposes.
Farrago is smart enough and experienced to keep that from happening – its what he does. This is very different than Joe dirt talking to the cameras 10min after a defensive gun use – think about it.
Most memorable quotes from this interview:
“Its not practical”
“Simulated full auto fire”
“Not a machine gun”
Top quotes if CBS had interviewed on of Bloomburg’s “gun experts”:
“Its a machine gun you can buy from the corner store”
“Any assault weapon could be modified like this”
“This weapon can now potentially kill dozens of people in a few seconds”
You should be thanking TTAG. They just prevented the dissemination of a literal ***-TON of misinformation.
Well said, Ebby.
Most memorable quotes from this interview:
“Its not practical”
Except it is VERY practical when engaging an area type target with plunging fire, as demonstrated in Las Vegas.
“Simulated full auto fire”
“Not a machine gun”
Last two are the same. The public could care less about the technical definition of a “machine gun”. If a weapon can fire 5 to 10 rounds per second, it’s a machine gun to them. No amount of “education” will change that.
Just speaking for myself, I’d rather have them get their “facts” straight from someone who knows what the hell they’re talking about, rather than the inanity that folks like Hillary and Tim Kaine have been spewing. Good on CBS for reaching out and trying to get actual facts.
Now, as to if they twist those facts, that remains to be seen.
Not like CBS doesn’t have the power of the edit. I hope TTAG was at least smart enough to have its own audio and video rolling.
THIS. You shouldn’t say a damn word to them without recording it. Katie Couric them if they edit you with malice.
I’ll second, or third, this comment.
Remember what the networks did during that Katty Koursick panel discussion…
Made the gun owners look pitifully stupid, just by editing IN 8 seconds of dead space, and then editing OUT the answers.
We will see if the good ‘facts’ get edited into sounding like BAD ‘facts”
The lib media is know to do that once and awhile—heck all the f-ing time!
The vast majority of the population is reached by that “Liberal media”, so unless your plan is to hide under a rock until they finally get the votes to come for your guns, WE HAVE TO ENGAGE AND DISPELL FICITON WITH FACT.
The media is already misinforming the world about what a “bump fire stock” does. They are basically saying it transforms the weapons into an actual machine/fully automatic gun. You can leave that narrative out there or you can put out the entire truth.
The facts being that: this technique [bump fire] can be achieved with your belt loop on your pants/shorts, the stock doesn’t turn a semi auto into a genuine full auto, that there are simple illegal modifications that can turn a semi auto into a full auto (like bank robbers have done), items like that stock are not illegal because you still have to pull the trigger yourself, you can recreate the same effect without the “bump fire stock” on a bi-pod equipped gun by pushing the gun forward and having slack for the gun to bounce.
I think I heard a Fox news reporter say to ban “bump fire stocks” because they make a gun fully automatic. Imagine what the other channels are saying.
I’m not seeing a good way to spin bump fire stocks or binary triggers. Like another poster said …8-10 rounds a second is like a machine gun regardless of how that rate of fire is achieved. This isn’t going to play well to the public. Period.
Not if we’re giving accurate information.
Thank you Dan, I only hope they don’t edit you into their poster boy… The MSM as you well know is not friendly to ideas that go outside of their realm, fear, victimization, racism,…ideas like being self sufficient, prosperous, independent scare them
What contingencies have been prepared in the inevitable event that TTAG’s “Demonstration” is distorted into a piece of anti-gun propaganda. Does TTAG have access to the raw footage?
Everybody has controversy in their past, this site’s staff is no exception. Great care need be taken when associating with those that are in the business of deception. Esoteric Inanity shall remain objective until such time that the ramifications of this can be fully realized.
Dan, I appreciate your optimism but the MSM hasn’t proven itself to do well with accurate information. Please do yourself and everyone else a favor and have your own camera and audio going too.
Personal opinion:
We are dealing with Joe Sixpack here. He’s going to see this and say to himself (and his buddies): “So this stock lets the gun act like a machine gun, and they’re saying it’s legal, while actual machine guns are illegal? What’s the difference? A technicality? Are you serious about that?”
And we lose the bumpfire stock.
Emotions (which are running very high now) will trump facts every time. Just because we present facts when emotions are high doesn’t mean it will do any good; it will, more probably, make us look like we’re desperate.
Sorry,that’s my opinion.
So, what should be done? Wait. Emotions will die down (when something else takes over the news cycle). Laws take time to come up. That might be a much better time to present our case to the legislature.
The media is already misinforming the world about what a “bump fire stock” does. They are basically saying it transforms the weapons into an actual machine/fully automatic gun. You can leave that narrative out there or you can put out the entire truth.
The facts being that: this technique [bump fire] can be achieved with your belt loop on your pants/shorts, the stock doesn’t turn a semi auto into a genuine full auto, that there are simple illegal modifications that can turn a semi auto into a full auto (like bank robbers have done), items like that stock are not illegal because you still have to pull the trigger yourself, you can recreate the same effect without the “bump fire stock” on a bi-pod equipped gun by pushing the gun forward and having slack for the gun to bounce.
I think I heard a Fox news reporter say to ban “bump fire stocks” because they make a gun fully automatic. Imagine what the other channels are saying.
To bad this reporter is not more common.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-met-las-vegas-shooting-kass-1004-story.html
Why? There are plenty of YouTube videos on the bump stock. Besides, the MSM might actually learn something by having to Google it.
You give too much credit to the MSM. They will find what ever “facts” they are looking for. The “fact they are looking for is: bumpfire=machinegun…… TTAG materially contributed to them finding that “fact”……
PS — I’ve fired pleanty of rounds through pleanty of machineguns and they are astronomically more effective fired from the shoulder as opposed from the hip. Thats the difference between a slide fire and belt loop bump fire so its a stupid equivacation. When you say ANY semi-auto can be bumpfired and bumpfire=machinegun (via the MSM), then non-gun people are going to draw the conclusion that semi-auto=full-auto.
PPS — If the slidefire is made illegal and someone REALLY wants an automatic weapon and cant have a simulated automatic weapon, then they will just go back to the cheaper, easier, and more effective method of making an illegal machinegun for a fraction of the price of a bumpfire stock.
You’re going to get edited out of context and be used to push the CBS agenda, regardless of what you actually said or did, you know this, right?
So bump fire stocks are getting banned soon. Now footage of TTAG writers will be used to demonstrate why these evil things that go up (and back and forth) need to be banned. Are we supposed to be celebrating this because its still TTAG making it on the mainstream news? I think I’ll hold of on popping the champagne.
Wouldn’t be the first time TTAG hoisted themselves up by their own petard.
You’re letting your fear paralyze your senses.
We just watched a fairly well balanced and accurate report, devoid of any ridiculous sound bytes we’ve come to expect.
Talking to the media CAN be done well – but its not a job for amateurs.
TTAG and Farago are media professionals – this isn’t some bubba CBS picked up at the local gun store.
…which is exactly why certain organizations will not deal with the media. They aren’t necessarily going to tell the whole story/truth regardless of what you show them. And you may just give them enough material to stab you in the back.
If people want to have a rational conversation about guns, then it has to start with education. We shall see if CBS is interested in the facts or just political manipulation.
Have you not been paying attention? We have seen, and it is never the truth.
WTF…
I’ll have to watch the news just to see Jeremy S.’s eyeballs. No reflective sunglasses? Who are you and what have you done with the trendily-bespectacled Jeremy we all know and love?
Thanks, guys, for doing the best you can to provide unbiased facts even if they won’t listen. It’s a good faith effort.
Unfortunately some people still watch ABC, CBS, NBC nightly propaganda…I’m not one but the under-educated will go away after the “report” without a change in status…still an under-educated, gullible member of the masses.
The real question is how soon will the ATF simply outlaw it through a new regulation. On the one hand it was legal because technically the weapon with this installed was a semi-auto but in reality it acted more like a full auto which resulting in many more people being killed and maimed. Now the real question is will the Government simply outlaw it without passing a new law. Yes you bet they will.
The actual question is how soon the BATFE will change course if they ever even hint at wanting to arbitrarily, unilaterally ban anything — which still is not now and has never, ever been within their statutory authority to do in the first place. The only reason why they are able to keep doing it is because Congress isn’t interested in stopping them. Yet. Oh, and in reality — which you are not a participant in, by the way — it’s hardly reliable or consistent, and given the length of the timeline of the shooting it would have made absolutely no difference whatsoever in the body count whether it was present or not. Now, the actual question is, why would the government bother to outlaw it in any manner? Simply put, no, you bet they actually won’t.
Especially not after the abysmal failure of the first federal AWB, which cost the DemoKKKrats of that era dearly — as it SHOULD have.
The Feds won’t ban it but that doesn’t stop individual states from doing so.
Expect Nevada and the other full libtard states to enact these bans.
Cool, and all they’ll see is the same “rate of fire” and tell you it’s dangerous and that’s how dumb old guy was able to kill so many people yadda yadda yadda…
Which … apparently… was true?
(I mean, at least until we hear that the guns were converted to true auto, which may or may not have happened, then … yeah, what you said as what they’ll report are basically true)
I get what you’re saying, I think I meant that they will try to imply that there is zero difference between the two, and because one is heavily regulated, that all others should be as well.
I have TTAG’s back on this one. If TTAG doesn’t demonstrate it, someone not Pro-2A will. This gives TTAG the opportunity to get out in front of it, not add bad commentary, and demonstrate how it should properly be used and limitations of such.
You are exactly right.
I hope you guys made your own recording of this demo
We did.
I knew you would.
That hasn’t always been the case
Are you going to upload to https://www.youtube.com/user/guntruth/videos ?
Thank God you thought of that.
Keep that recording warm, its probably a foregone conclusion you will need it to prove their lies when you are quoted out of context or edited into looking like buffoons. If they can’t figure out how to do that and get away with it, they’ll simply not use your demo at all in their piece.
Let them whine. You can’t stop the signal. Humans have a seemingly innate ability to invent workarounds every time you tell them you can’t do something.
I hope you all have your own cameras and audio recorders rolling ready to upload it online when CBS will inevitably lie, distort, and cut out the truth to suit their propaganda.
Every gun owner should do this or ignore them since we should be well aware by now the media is against us and will not give us a balanced view.
I once prepared a statement to the media on behalf of a client. The reporter or producer edited my statement before reading it on-air. I won’t make that mistake twice.
“The reporter or producer edited my statement.”
What was the ‘gist’ of your statement, and how did the media mangle it?
this looks like a train wreck waiting to happen. any bets they cut and paste selectively to make TTAG look as bad as the Virginia Citizens Defense League did after Under the Gun?
I am guessing they will chop it down to about 5 seconds of actual shooting and insert their own OMG!! SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!
Action films next for Jeremy! I wonder what his signature quirk going to be? Rad fur jackets, trippin’ shades, or maybe “It ain’t the heat, it’s the temperature.”;-)
Why?
Not sure why one would volunteer to have one’s statements misused, distorted, omitted, heavily edited, for agenda-driven “journ-o-lism” is beyond understanding. Hope you recorded the full audio and video for disputing their blatant agitprop.
While I am happy to see manufacturers finding ways to thumb their nose at idiotic bureaucracy; you have to ask yourself if we aren’t are own worst enemy for making stuff like this. The “Bullet Button” and “Arm Brace that in no way functions like a stock” are fine, but as soon as I saw this product get released I knew we just gave ourselves enough rope to get hung with.
Its not a question of “is it legal”, its a question of “is this smart”. Cause at some point, some idiot is going to not use it as intended, and the dip shit government and even dip shit-ier media is going to use it as a PR campaign to roll back rights even further.
Am I saying that without the Bump Stock this couldn’t have happened? No, but Slide-Fire just handed the Democrats and the media a perfect story: Machine gun, full auto, easily purchased, loop holes yada yada yada.
And cue the morons who will say I’m a paid troll or a Fudd in 3…2…
Slide Fire has been out for – what? – twenty years? And this is the first murder w it?
You’re exactly right Garry.
You do realize that they will edit this to create the worst possible light?
No good deed goes unpunished.
Prepare for a lot of blow-back.
Let’s get a betting pool going for the total number of inaccuracies. What’s the over/under? 15?
Hoping that you have full audio/video of the event to highlight the coming distortions.
We filmed it.
So glad to hear that, Dan.
Well then, if they edit it to death, then you can post the entire contents and call them out on it. Good for you for taking that step.
CBS will no doubt edit everything rational out of the video, better to get ahead of the onslaught before the damage is done and the people if the gun are accused of editing. My new single stage giselle 1lb flat trigger is capable of emptying a 30 round mag in 4 seconds, bump fire or not. Anything to take our traditions and lifestyles away is the main goal, I like 99% of responsibility armed highly trained individuals are extra protection for those who can’t or won’t protect their god given rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, the latter is not guaranteed to anyone. Molan labe….God bless all who have been aggected by this act of pure evil. My prayers be with you all.
How about you let them shoot them bump fire. It takes practice and it’s not as easy as you would think. Hell just let them shoot one versus he other with NO instruction and I’d bet they couldn’t even get a burst out of it!
The media is already misinforming the world about what a “bump fire stock” does. They are basically saying it transforms the weapons into an actual machine/fully automatic gun. You can leave that narrative out there or you can put out the entire truth.
The facts being that: this technique [bump fire] can be achieved with your belt loop on your pants/shorts, the stock doesn’t turn a semi auto into a genuine full auto, that there are simple illegal modifications that can turn a semi auto into a full auto (like bank robbers have done), items like that stock are not illegal because you still have to pull the trigger yourself, you can recreate the same effect without the “bump fire stock” on a bi-pod equipped gun by pushing the gun forward and having slack for the gun to bounce.
I think I heard a Fox news reporter say to ban “bump fire stocks” because they make a gun fully automatic. Imagine what the other channels are saying.
This is not the brightest choice TTAG’s staff has made this week. What outcome do you people expect from your efforts to educate anti-civil rights bigots? Narrowly crafted legislation to outlaw bumpfire stocks? Legislation mandating triggers with an electronic/mechanical delay, so they can only be fired at a rate of 10 rounds per minute? What were you thinking?
What do you mean “You people”?
What do you mean, “You people?” 😛
WTF? You idiots! Have you lost your mind?
Make sure you have a full unedited copy available to share on social media in case they’re “liberal” in their editing.
JUST watched the CBS report. Fair enough. Very short retort from RF…”range toy” and “not practical”. Pretty even handed for hack media…
JUST watched the CBS report. Fair enough. Very short retort from RF…”range toy” and “not practical”. Pretty even handed for hack media…
Just watched the report, and I honestly think it was one of the better (from a factual and bias standpoint) pieces I’ve seen on CBS where guns are concerned. While it did end with the mention of the failed bump stock ban bill, CBS also mentioned the fact that full autos made after 1986 are illegal for civilians to own.
Nice job, RF.
Watched it. Made Robert look stupid. They showed him twice saying it wasn’t practical juxtaposed with gun fire and thus insinuating that they obviously were very practical and in fact just led to a horrible mass shooting.
CBS at least covered what you showed them. Kind of took off on rounds per minute and no one really knows if the guy actually used those guns.
You did all you could.
Just watched it. They kept juxtaposing Robert stating that they weren’t practical and a range toy with gun fire and insinuating that they obviously were practical in that they were used in a mass shooting to simulate automatic fire.
Perhaps you should have posted an unedited unfiltered copy of the interview here as part of the story. Then there would be a version that honest viewers could come to and watch. I would never grant an interview without recording it myself.
Saw it. Comments disappear. Fix your SITE!!!
Huh, I was streaming it and didn’t see it come up at all.
Hello friend.
I’m not around as much anymore, but I still try to keep an eye on things.
I have fixed the disappearing comments issue.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Remember that time when Pierced Moron went to a TX gun range?
Did that change his mind? Was he more informed? Did he stop propagating untruths about guns afterwards?
The lefty progressive control freaks and their propaganda arm, the main stream media, could care less about TRUTH and FACTS. It just damages their agenda. I have NO doubt this attempt will be twisted.
You guys know that CBS News is the enemy, right?
You know that the CBS News president is David Rhodes, brother of President Obama’s chief propagandist Ben Rhodes?
Just checking.
I look forward to the “As televised” and truth comparison.
I saw it and all they did was use the footage to show how it was like a full auto. Not details about the difference. Sheesh.
Just saw it, y’all got trolled.
Just saw it, y’all got trolled.
My original post disappeared.
here is your video—
Let the fun began!!
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/officials-las-vegas-shooter-had-device-allowing-gun-to-fire-like-an-automatic/
Practical!
“Any bets as to the number of mis-stated “facts”…?”
All of them.
Please tell me you guys were smart enough to record *everything* on your end — audio especially.
Because whatever information you gave them is almost guaranteed to either get edited out or twisted in some way.
I figure the atf bans the use of bumpfire stocks, just like it did for a while for ‘shouldering’ a pistol brace. You can still own them just not use them. So then binary trigger sales go nutz…
” You can still own them just not use them.”
So what do you think you are preventing with that “solution”?
Mass murderers would ignore and lawful people experience a regulatory taking.
If anything like this became imminent I would sell mine to the highest bidder even if they had MS13 tats.
I see magazine limits being more likely if anything.Those bump fire stocks/binary triggers dont work to well with 10 round mags slowing them down
Hope your wrong but if you are right please allow grandfathering!
Taint no F’ing way they will get a mag ban.
The Repubs may be stupid enough to throw Slidefire under the bus though.
The industry just need sto keep innovating semi-useless products for future give-aways.
Maybe the Gunsticles.
I lost my AR and AK bumpfire stocks in a tragic canoeing accident tomorrow.
I pray that you guys had your own audio and video rolling. CBS will edit this to serve their own ends. 🙁 I guess all we can do is stay tuned!
Your decision to cooperate with the Antis is truly alarming in that absolutely zero good can be accomplished. Disappointed to be sure– Correction, SHOCKED is a better way to put it as in WTF!
Vanity, it’s not a good trait.
RF saying it’s not practical made him look rather foolish and of coarse they edited that way on purpose. That’s the line that the producers hoped for.
In reality, anybody can make a bumpfire stock with $20 of spare parts and a piece of scrap sheet metal…. or a belt loop.
YOU DONT NEED A STOCK TO BUMP FIRE DONT BE STUPID ILL BET MONEY THEY WONT EVEN MENTION THAT YOU CAN BUMP FIRE USING D RINGS BELT LOOPS ON YOUR PANTS ITS NOT HARD
NOT THAT ACCURATE BUT WHEN YOUR A MURDERER SHOOTING AT A HUGE CROWD IT DOES NOT MATTER
YOU DONT NEED A STOCK TO BUMP FIRE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2YLgLj8KVY
i can dump a clip in seconds just using my finger
I knew some nut was eventually going to use a bump fire stock in some massacre. Actually I expected someone was going to put a binary trigger in an AR pistol with DOLOS QD barrel and LAW Tactical folding stock adapter and go on a spree.
OMG IT’S A MACHINE GUN IN A BACKPACK.
I think it’s time to heat up the credit card and buy the cool stuff now.
IMO clueless, ignorant people should be banned from exercising their right to free speech.
WHY IS TTAG aiding media outlets that consistently twist things in favor of Anti-2nd stances and people????
Post on the topic at 16:00 EST today.
ten spot on nine errors or omissions of facts….
I knew bump fire stocks and binary triggers were going to be a bad idea once the democrats saw how they worked. Those fucking idiots were trying to put the screws on outlawing silencers but they didn’t even mention bump stocks. Apparently that’s over now.
I love my AR just the way it is. when I saw people years ago doing demos ON YOUTUBE, of the binary fire control group, slide fire and so called bump fire I thought at the time this is stupid and giving the already bad name of the AR and would add fuel to the gun grabbing EU agenda for weapons Confiscation. Living in Las Vegas I enjoy shooting and weapons collecting that other states do not. so here we go with more gun control because of a supposed crazed person and a device that only wastes ammo anyhow. Being close to this horrible event I still think from the slow cadence of the strings of fire what they are calming is not the only weapon used. but like so other events we will never know,but once again we will as law abiding people have to say no you can not take my AR. sorry, if this makes any one who uses those triggers upset, this is just how i see it.
CBS is setting up another Exploding Gas tank episode and thanks TTAG for crossing over to aid them in their quest.
The premise begins with the false liberal media lie that,
‘ fact ‘ at least one bump stock.., blah blah blah. For all we know is that ‘ fact ‘ there was a picture of a gun …,
How it got there, who put it there ( was it added as a photo op to push this particular agenda? )
Fact, there are too many holes in the narrative to push fact yet except the fact that articles like this support mainstream liberal fake propaganda and news by assuming facts that are part of cointel ops. As a journalist this guy is a paid shill or an embarrassment to real journalism.
Liberal press tactic #1 ask what the president’s definition of terror is. While opening with social justice words lost in the value (of her seeking more racial divide) by neglecting black panthers, weather men, and antifa (and the Sudanese terrorist) by just mentioning white terrorists. People terror is terror you do not need a gun to indiscriminately slaughter people. You just need an “@&&hole” pushed far enough to do something stupid. Look at their political affiliations and tell me who would benefit more from their actions, a responsibile gun owner or a liberal (for liberals) who’s brain is to far gone from his free love and peace days.
Machine guns have been highly regulated since 1934 and until the 1984 Hugh’s Amendment, were reasonable affordable to those paying the $200 tax and passing the stringent requirements. They are a fun toy and since the 1934 NFA there only one or two illegal uses of them. The Hugh’s Amendment ended the introduction of any additional registrations which caused the price of previously civilian registered machine guns to skyrocket into the thousands of dollars. Bump stocks and other devises designed to simulate full auto fire are the market’s response to the asinine and unconstitutional Hugh’s legislation. Since these devices are unregulated anyone can buy one and since they are easy to make and cannot be uninvented, they will continue to be available to nut cases despite any spastic legislation. Once again the government, through their lack of foresight, created a lethal problem and will continue to blame inanimate objects for their and other deviants criminal behavior.
“Once again the government, through their lack of foresight, created a lethal problem and will continue to blame inanimate objects for their and other deviants criminal behavior.”
That’s a feature, not a bug.