The ATF is a Rogue Agency That Endangers the Freedom of Americans

Courtesy ATF.gov.

By Mark Houser

Over and over again, innocent people unwittingly find themselves in the ATF’s crosshairs.

What if government agents could, by declaration, make you into a criminal? What if, without legislative changes, bureaucrats could decide that what was legal yesterday is, today, a felony? What if we were governed not by law, but by edict — arbitrary statements telling us what we may or may not do?

Unfortunately, those questions are not merely hypothetical. Millions of American gun owners are grappling with this capricious governance. Even if you aren’t a gun owner — even if you hate guns — you should be deeply concerned about the arbitrary power wielded by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) against your fellow Americans. If an unchecked executive agency can, with impunity, run roughshod over any of our rights, all of our rights are in danger.

Felons by Fiat

Recently, the firearms manufacturer Q, LLC shared disturbing news with its customers: the ATF had declared the delightfully-named and popular “Honey Badger” pistol to be a “short-barreled rifle” (SBR). This determination subjects the firearm to special restrictions under the National Firearms Act (NFA). As a consequence of the ATF’s decision, customers who had purchased the Honey Badger have suddenly found themselves in felonious possession of a now-illegal firearm that they had legally acquired and legally owned.

The ATF’s determination is arbitrary and inconsistent with both federal law and prior ATF statements. Substantially similar firearms (AR-pattern pistols equipped with ATF-approved stabilizing braces) continue to be sold legally, as they have been for years. Instead of explaining what makes the Honey Badger different from those firearms, the ATF vaguely alluded to “objective design features,” offering no further explanation as to what those features are or why they lead the ATF to determine that the Honey Badger is an SBR.

Q honey badger sb tactical

Q Honey Badger pistol with SB Tactical pistol stabilizing brace (Jeremy S. for TTAG)

This is far from the first time that the ATF has issued a declaration that turns innocent people into criminals — other examples abound. As I explained in Felony by Fiat:

In 2015, the ATF decided that the physical action of holding a pistol equipped with an ATF-approved brace to one’s shoulder was equivalent to creating an illegal short-barreled firearm. That is to say, you could pick up your perfectly legal pistol (which is not otherwise subject to the NFA’s minimum barrel length restrictions) and unwittingly commit a felony by virtue of the way you held it. That guidance directly contradicted a 2014 ATF letter that said just the opposite. In 2017, new guidance was issued which appears to sanction the shouldering of a braced pistol so long as such use is “incidental, sporadic, or situational” — whatever that means.

And:

Just last year, the ATF issued new measurement guidelines that transformed some conventionally legal pistols into presumptively illegal firearms under the NFA’s “any other weapon” (AOW) classification, depending on how those pistols had been configured and accessorized.

In 2018, at President Trump’s direction, the ATF created rules banning the possession of bump stocks. As Reason’s Jacob Sullum noted, that regulatory move made “owners of ‘bump-stock-type devices’…felons, subject to a maximum penalty of 10 years in federal prison and a $250,000 fine.” The bump stock ban was more prominent than other instances of the ATF’s lawless policymaking. Nonetheless, the ban was met with little outcry or appreciation of its implications.

But, as you can see from the other cases detailed here, the ATF’s ban on bump stocks was not an aberration: it was just one of countless regulatory changes, before and since, that have turned ordinary people into criminals.

Executive Agencies in a Free Society

The ATF is not a lawmaking body — or, at least, it is not supposed to be. It is an executive agency tasked with enforcing laws passed by Congress. The ATF is not empowered to create policy of its own accord, and it’s certainly not empowered to proclaim law-abiding citizens to be criminals — but that’s exactly what it has been doing. Sadly, there’s no hyperbole in the observation that literally millions of legal gun owners must wonder: Will I wake up tomorrow to find that I’ve been declared a felon?

The rule of law is a fundamental value of a free society. We are not to be governed by edict, but only by laws that are consistent with the Constitution and created according to its provisions. The purpose of government is to protect us from arbitrary and illegitimate force, to secure our rights — not to be the agent of their destruction.

The ATF itself has come to embody the exercise of arbitrary and illegitimate power. Such a perversion of government’s purpose must be condemned in the strongest possible terms. No matter how much our opinions about gun control laws diverge, we should be united in rejecting executive agencies’ usurpations of sovereignty.

This article was originally published at marklivesthings.medium.com and is reprinted here with permission. 

comments

  1. avatar Sam I Am says:

    Yes, and ??

    1. avatar DK says:

      The point might have been that the Libertarian party is the only true 2A party. Oh well. Maybe in 4 years the GOP can at least give us a Libertarian leaning candidate. Or at least give us someone who’s not so divisive so we can band together as conservatives instead of being at eachothers throats. Better luck next time, folks.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “…so we can band together as conservatives instead of being at eachothers throats.”

        “Conservatives” are purists. We demand what is right, proper, not what is effective. Faced with war, we fight amongst ourselves not over how to defeat the enemy, but the motivations for doing so. We do so to the point that we prefer defeat to winning in an improper fashion.

        As I noted earlier, now is the time for smash-mouth politics, not honorable debate. “Libertarians” (who are actually Libertines) are not fighters, warriors. They do not offer a platform or pathway to winning, but a theory to bandy about. Debates never win wars. Ever.

        1. avatar DK says:

          We were never at war with our liberal American counterparts. It’s just democracy, friend. Even though I never suggested it, debate is more appropriate than this war you’re imagining.

          But it’s ok buddy. The pain will subside. You can cry on my shoulder and make fun of Libertarians all you want. For the sake of your war analogy, we’ll regroup soon and live to fight another day.

        2. avatar Ing says:

          The other side of this “debate” intends to destroy everything we love and has been waging an ideological war for decades already. You’re in a kind of a war whether you recognize it or not.

        3. avatar Miner49er says:

          “Conservatives” are purists. We demand what is right, proper,”

          Oh, come on, man! Your chosen one is a triple adulterer who has cheated on his taxes for decades. His lies about COVID-19 have cost hundreds of thousands of Americans their lives, leaving millions with permanent organ damage, all while trying to deny healthcare benefits to those with pre-existing conditions like surviving Covid.

          Purists?

          “She was married, but I moved on her like a bitch!“

          Hypocrisy, thy name is conservative Republican.

      2. avatar Anymouse says:

        Libertarians are 2A supporters if they nominated Johnson and Weld. They were as antigun as traditional Dems. Compared to modern Dems, anyone who doesn’t want to put a bullet in your head and take your guns is pro-2A.

        1. avatar DK says:

          Hmmm. I don’t think so.

          Recently ignored Libertarian presidential candidate Jo Jorgensen:

          “I would abolish the ATF whose sole purpose is to enforce unconstitutional laws.”

      3. avatar Scott says:

        It will not happen. To the left every Republican Office holder has worse manners than the last, is a racist, and stupid. Let a Libertarian take the office and they will inherit the mantle. The only way to deal with the left is to destroy them.

        1. avatar DK says:

          “The only way to deal with the left is to destroy them.”

          Wow. Just the 75 million whose votes have been counted so far? Why should you stop there? Where will you begin?

        2. avatar Miner49er says:

          DK, there you have it, the naked anger and murderous rage the extreme right exhibit towards their political opponents.

          It is this blind rage, fear and anger that is the problem, and this is exactly the comments and behaviors that will cause good people to consider more gun control.

          Will you extremist nuts just STFU for a few days even?

          Will you leave your Q manon staff car at home, leave your guns at home and don’t take them to the courthouse, etc.? Remember what Johnny Cash said “Don’t take your guns to town, son, leave your guns at home… “

          Maybe stay home and watch reruns of celebrity apprentice or Gone with the Wind or maybe some tractor pull reruns.

      4. avatar ChoseDeath says:

        Is she the same one that believes in open borders? Who supports almost every Democrat initiative? Who is basically using the Libertarian Party as a grift? I thought so. Piss off.

        1. avatar DK says:

          Open borders from an economic perspective? Yeah. It’s profitable. Stay strapped and get over your fear of Mexicans.

          Supports every democratic initiative? Not by a long shot. Jorgensen has been supporting the Libertarian party since 1980.

          Trump registered as a Republican in Manhattan in 1987 and since that time has changed his party affiliation five times. In 1999, Trump changed his party affiliation to the Independence Party of New York. In August 2001, Trump changed his party affiliation to Democratic. In September 2009, Trump changed his party affiliation back to the Republican Party. In December 2011, Trump changed to “no party affiliation” (independent). In April 2012, Trump again returned to the Republican Party.

        2. avatar Miner49er says:

          “Trump… changed his party affiliation five times”

          What, the wealthy elite New York City con man switches his parties to whatever suits his greedy profiteering?

          You mean the triple adulterer, neighbors’ wife coveter, false witness bearing scam artist tax cheat has been manipulating conservative Republicans with total BS?

          I’m shocked, shocked I tell you!

        3. avatar CWT says:

          @DK Every Libertarian I have met and spoken to in person has come across as slightly unhinged. Your rhetoric here does nothing to dispel that impression. Based solely on that experience I place Libertarians in the same category as flat earth and sovereign citizen types.

        4. avatar DK says:

          Well, CWT… I appreciate science far too much to EVER promote flat earth theory. And I’m certainly not one of these sovereign citizen types you speak of.

          But if lumping me in a box with other things you don’t understand simplifies these complicated issues enough to stop making your head hurt, I support it. This has been a rough week. You need time to grieve.

    2. Stone have a “BAN” button yet for Globalist Trolls….There should be one…..

      1. We also need the edit button back..
        Edit Button = “Has anyone”.

        1. Edit button= *Does anyone*

      2. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “Stone have a “BAN” button yet for Globalist Trolls….There should be one…..”

        The DELETE key works fine for me. Actually, Miner and some others make it easy to run through the list of responses because I don’t actually read those at all.

        BTW, executive agencies are win-win for political parties. Credit when it is convenient, fund raising when needed, attack when politically expedient. For politicians, there are no downsides to government agencies.

  2. avatar Leigh says:

    Only going to get worse once Biden takes over…watch and see…

    1. avatar Festus says:

      We’ll be back to the Clinton era dystopian alphabet soup bois run amok. A Waco for you, a Ruby Ridge for you, all of the POTG get a good boot to the throat and then shaming by the MSM!!! Lon Horiuchi is likely already polishing up his boots anticipating another chance to blast more American women and children.

      1. avatar Montana Actual says:

        I recall recently on these forums someone mentioning “Spikes Tactical” and the first thing that came to mind was:

        You mean those fuckers that hired the waco snipers spotter?

        Crickets because no one has a effin clue.

        1. avatar Festus says:

          Dale Monroe was at Troy in ~2013. I didn’t hear had moved to Spikes Tactical. Sad if so.

      2. avatar Miner49er says:

        How quickly they rewrite history to suit their delusional narrative, truly amazing.

        Unfortunately, the facts reveal that 12 years of Reagan/Bush led to Ruby Ridge and Lon Horiuchi on their watch.

        The ATF that killed the weavers was owned, lock stock and barrel, by conservative Reagan Republicans.

        Bill and Hillary Clinton had nothing to do with Ruby Ridge and the death of the weavers, that tragedy is completely the responsibility of 12 years of Reagan/Bush ATF administration.

        Again, you folks are pathetic, self-deluding unreconstructed Johnny Rebs who don’t understand they lost the war to preserve slavery.

        1. avatar Montana Actual says:

          Hey dumbass… 99% of us would have been on the opposing side to YOUR democratic slave owners.

  3. avatar RGP says:

    Uh… Americans need to go and take over local and state government offices and arrest practically every government employee in some places to prevent theft of an election and to prevent the republic from being transformed into a communist country and you’re worried about the ATF?

    1. avatar former water walker says:

      Hear hear! Our President is being supplanted by the most naked display of chicanery seen in eons. Revenge for W/Gore?!? FWIW that election WAS stolen…a President with a 96mile caravan vs a corrupt senile old fool who barely left his basement. I will not comply.

    2. avatar Montana Actual says:

      Agreed. Some people in “the groups” I frequent are looking more like FUDDS everyday. They would never take this step.

      The time for action is now. Stop relying on someone else to do it. They already turned a group of us into “leftist kidnappers” and you assholes ate it up.

    3. avatar Montana Actual says:

      They already turned a group willing to do it into “leftist kidnappers” and labeled everything willing to do shit the “three percenters” won’t into boogaloo terrorists, and you assholes ate it up. Now people starting to see you have been a domestic terrorist since the first gun you ever touched, huh. Don’t feel to good does it?

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        “Now people starting to see you have been a domestic terrorist”

        You sure got that right!
        Reasonable and prudent citizens of the United States have begun to see the reality and danger of the right wing anti-government militias.

        1. avatar Montana Actual says:

          You mean the ones that established your freedoms and you know them today?

          Miner, you are such a tool. If a militia makes you feel threatened, it’s because you are one the side of bigger government. More rules, more taxes, less freedom. Makes sense, right? Right.

          Now KYS.

  4. avatar Lance says:

    If the ATF is going to exist as part of the executive branch, then every interpretation/move that could potentially put thousands in a federal prison needs to pass through the Supreme Court for constitutional legitimacy. These people are absolutely dangerous.

    Not everyone who owns firearms is politically active and I haven’t seen anything regarding arm braces on main stream media.

  5. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    Not a Constitutionally authorized agency aka extra constitutional, defund/dissolve.

    1. avatar Innocent Bystander says:

      So after 4 years of this administration, why hasn’t it been dissolved?

      1. avatar Montana Actual says:

        Why would this administration be any different than the ones since it’s birth? Did you have a fucking point, or just looking to blame someone while you sit back and do nothing but run your mouth?

        1. avatar Innocent Bystander says:

          Because this administration promised to drain the swamp.

  6. avatar tfunk says:

    Umm, a lot of actual laws are arbitrary and enforcement is capricious, as well.

    1. avatar Madcapp says:

      Yeah, like if you’re a politician there’s no (or very little) enforcement… that’s only for the little people.

    2. avatar Montana Actual says:

      One point the left has that anyone who values freedom should actually agree on rather than bootlick their way into elections. Like it or not, the law does not exist to protect you and those who enforce it are tyrants. Before police, it was the military doing it (and they still will). I get it, nobody likes to see cities burning at the hands of communist fucks like Antifa and BLM, but if you think change is going to happen any other way, well, welcome to November 2020. We all want a sense of “law and order” but to what end? How many more of us have to be thrown under the bus for defending themselves before you realize the law and those who enforce it are not on your side? Again, I get it, it’s scary. Freedom is basically chaos. Do you want to be free? The hypocrisy is “the civilized world” as we know it. Basically, you will never be free. You either die fighting or die oppressed. The revolving circle of history is about to seperate us once again. Hope you enjoyed the comfiness of complacency while it lasted.

      1. avatar Innocent Bystander says:

        “before you realize the law and those who enforce it are not on your side?” So you want to defund the police instead. You dumb fuck.

        1. avatar Montana Actual says:

          Did I say defund?

          I simply know a red coat when I see it. What has changed through history? What about police makes you feel free? You want smaller government and more privacy but you can’t see the hypocrisy in your “thin blue line” support? Get real, dumbass.

  7. avatar Ticked Off says:

    If Biden succeeds in stealing this election anyone who owns a non Fudd firearm is in for a tough 4 years. You can also kiss goodbye to buying ammo and parts online.

    Face it, ordinary people are nothing but serfs in this Country. Any doubt should have been erased by this election.

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      I fear you’re right about ammo prices

      But the rest depends on the senate. A GOP senate somehow remembers where its balls are when there’s a D potus.

    2. avatar endDClies says:

      I made sure I had the weapon I wanted and plenty of ammunition before the last presidential election. I knew that eventually the leftists would take total control of our government and violate our civil rights. How disgusting is it? The left campaigned on a platform of violating the civil rights of every single American.

      Now let me talk about the election. Because the president could not control his mouth and statements during the entire time he was in office, he turned off a large numbers of people. The numbers of people that he received praise from for his juvenile behavior was a very small group. I was hoping that someone in the White House would drop the present’s phone in the toilet some times. If there is one thing we know, a lot of people do not vote based on logic, they vote based on their feelings. The president should have demolished the leftist, even with the voter fraud. Harris should have been a big enough liability to guarantee the defeat of the leftist. Instead of winning, the president will loose. I know a lot of people will be angered by what I have said but I speak the truth. For those people, try seeing things as they are and not as you want them to be.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “The numbers of people that he received praise from for his juvenile behavior was a very small group.”

        Neither the popular vote for Trump in 2016, nor 2020 can, in any rational universe, be considered “a very small group”.

        Winners want pleasing results; losers want pleasant methods.

      2. You’re absolutely right…..Trump should have been a ” shoo in ” to win, considering the bullshit the Democrats have pulled. But he can’t blame anyone but himself for losing. Him and his stupid comments; and defying the experts in regards to the virus in particular, are what caused his loss. True, I think he probably had some bad advice, but he should have had enough foresight to see that it was wrong, and not let his ego overpower his decisions. There are things he could have done to improve his standing among the American voters, especially Black voters.

        But, as the old saying goes….” live and learn.”

        1. avatar Blkojo says:

          Trump did improve his standing among black voters. Hispanic voters too. Both blocs voted noticeably more for him in 2020 than in 2016. As to what he did? Both groups had much improved employment. Black America received more money for HBCs under Trump than any other president. Trump signed off on “opportunity zones” in black communities. Trump signed into law First Step. Not much more he could have done unless he walked arm-in-arm with LeBron down Wilshire Blvd. at noon Friday October 30th.

        2. avatar CWT says:

          You mean those “experts” who gave conflicting advice based on bad data? The “experts” who preened in front of the MSM, basking in their own egos?

      3. avatar FormerParatrooper says:

        Since his election the left had said he was not thier President , he was Hitler, a Soviet agent, he was urinated on by hookers, and everything under the sun was thrown at him and those on the Right.

        Yet your concerned he was mean on twitter? They took his words out of context, applied the Goebbels playbook and repeated the lies until enough people believed the lies.

        When you look at some of what he did, it was admirable in the fact he accomplished some good with the resistance.

        He even gained voters in the communities that he supposedly racist against.

        Well the trojan horse may be sworn in, and Harris will exit the anus soon as the real POTUS. Then the fun with our rights begin. The BATFe hasn’t even started with the application of regulations against the citizenry. Just wait to see what is next.

        Thought 2020 couldn’t get worse? Here comes 2021 asking us to hold its beer.

        1. avatar Miner49er says:

          “They took his words out of context,”

          The self delusion continues, you people are pathetic.

          Face it, your ‘chosen one’ was an adulterous liar who cheated on all three of his wives and his taxes, while pussy grabbing married women.

          Your BS hypocrisy about ‘character counts in our national leaders’, abandoned in seconds when racist, greedy, con man Typhoid Trump came down the gold-plated escalator.

          “The love of money is the root of all evil“

          On inauguration day in 2021, there will be two parades.

          One will be We the People, heading to the White House with Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

          The other will be a phalanx of federal and state prosecutors, lined up with indictments for the Trump train and their co-conspirators.

          I imagine Ivanka will do well in prison, Don Junior and Eric not so much.

        2. avatar FormerParatrooper says:

          What’s pathetic is ignoring Biden’s words, in context about the racial jungle and bussing. That is far more racists than anything you try to pin on Trump. Or even Biden’s penchant for sniffing people, including minors. Application of standards has to be consistent to be taken seriously. Even though we all know Biden will not be the President for a full term, his successor doesn’t meet your moral requirements either.

          I didn’t mention character, too many examples of politicians who didn’t have that virtue. Kennedy, Clinton, and many others also participated in these activities.

          Trump like all men has faults. Even you and I have faults. We are also capable of doing good things in spite of these faults.

          There has been four years of investigation into Trump. All we have found is a fake dossier paid for by a political opponent. If you believe indictments will hold water then you are delusional. Any attempts to continue these fraudulent investigations after he leaves office will be nothing more than blind hatred and revenge. That is what happens in the third world, is that how you want to live?

        3. avatar Miner49er says:

          “There has been four years of investigation into Trump. All we have found is a fake dossier paid for by a political opponent”

          Oh, you must’ve missed the convictions of trumps campaign manager, assistant campaign manager, long time personal attorney, national security advisor, etc.

          But wait, there’s more!

          The inauguration day parade in a couple months will include a troop of state and federal prosecutors with indictments for the Trump crime family, it’s sure to be a blockbuster!

        4. avatar FormerParatrooper says:

          You do support third world tactics. Noted.

          You are not safe from them, no one is. We will all be targets.

        5. avatar Miner49er says:

          “You do support third world tactics.”

          Nope. The rule of law, due process.

  8. avatar Ralph says:

    Yes, the ATF is a bunch of jackbooted thugs. They’ll fit in perfectly with the new regime.

  9. avatar Ark says:

    Oh buddy, you ain’t seen anything yet. Get ready for Beto as ATF director.

  10. avatar Miner49er says:

    The Obama/Biden administration approved bump stocks and pistol braces.

    As the article above states:
    “In 2018, at President Trump’s direction, the ATF created rules banning the possession of bump stocks. As Reason’s Jacob Sullum noted, that regulatory move made “owners of ‘bump-stock-type devices’…felons, subject to a maximum penalty of 10 years in federal prison and a $250,000 fine.”

    Thanks for four years of going friggin backwards on gun rights Trumptards!

    1. avatar DK says:

      So true. So sad.

    2. avatar Montana Actual says:

      ACB?

      You act like obama did not push that common sense gun control talk every chance he got. Would you care to see some of the shit he did? Or you enjoy your safe space too much? Rhetorical.

      Fuck off commie.

      1. avatar DK says:

        I’m not sure he’s implying that Obama was good. But this is a factual example of how Trump was worse. I know, I know… Trump did some good things too… While he wasn’t grabbing PPs and banning parts as if they’re firearms.

        1. avatar Montana Actual says:

          I could care less about Trump man.

          This commie fuck just pushed his leftist pro biden agenda as if Obama and Biden were “more pro gun” than Trump. When it comes down to it, none of them are pro gun unless they outright say it and fight for it. But the whole Obama and Biden scrotum coddling from this wanna be gun owner deserves a throat punch. Miner is the type of idiot who would put two shots in the air, or aim for the knees.

        2. avatar Ark says:

          Donna Karen says “a factual example of how Trump was worse.”

          You should look up the word ‘worse’, I don’t think it means what you think it means.

          By agreeing with the Marxist Miner49er about bump stocks (which even among gun owners was, at best, a novelty item) you are saying that Sotomayor and Kagen are better for gun owners (and the rest of the country) than Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett.

          Three pro-gun SCOTUS Justices and no bump stocks or two (and almost 3) Anti-gun SCOTUS Justices and bump stocks.

          So ‘worse’, not in reality.

        3. avatar DK says:

          I like how you gave me a name that implies I’m a woman. I don’t find women to be inferior, as you imply. But I’ll play along.

          When I said worse, I was going apples to apples on two administrations’ interpretation of the same component. But if you’d like more specifics from nationalgunrights.org:

          “*** First it was the “FIX-NICS” expansion of government gun control databases. 2

          *** Then it was the so-called “bump stock” ban, despite NAGR members delivering 148,000 petitions against this unprecedented accessory ban. 3

          *** Then it was his “take the guns first” comment sitting next to Dianne Feinstein, which led to White House support for “Red Flag” Gun Confiscation laws.4 ”

          Then of course his opinion on suppressors:

          Morgan: There’s just been another massacre in Virginia Beach where the shooter used a silencer. What is your view of silencers?

          Trump: I don’t like them.

          Morgan: Would you like to see those banned?

          Trump: Well, I’d like to think about it. I mean nobody’s talked about silencers very much. They did talk about the bump stock and we had it banned, and we’re looking at that, I’m going to seriously look at it.

        4. avatar Montana Actual says:

          And then talk about silencers began… they still exist, right? Wonder why.

          Look, we get it, no politician at that level is “pro 2a”… but both you and miner assume that a republican is worse than a democrat? lol… no. Who’s campaigns have been revolving around gun control for a decade + now?

        5. avatar DK says:

          “you and miner assume that a republican is worse than a democrat?”

          Nope. Not even close to truth. A specific republican, who really isn’t a real republican, had the potential to be worse than a democrat.

          But that ship has sailed. I’m not looking forward to Biden as president either. I’m bracing for impact.

      2. avatar CentralVirginian says:

        They seem to be conveniently forgetting about operation chokepoint where Obama’s justice department, in tandem with the FDIC, declared the firearm industry a “high risk business” and dried up all funding for gun and ammo manufacturers.

        1. avatar Miner49er says:

          “dried up all funding for gun and ammo manufacturers.”

          More self delusion.

          Yes, the guns and ammo business is so bad right now, sales are the worst they’ve been in decades, our local gun stores are empty because manufacturers just don’t have the money to produce goods for sale.

          Total BS, complete denial of reality, the gun business is the best it has ever been, there is no shortage of funding for reputable manufacturers with integrity who are making money hand over fist.

          Meanwhile, I am carrying my legal concealed weapon in national parks and forests all over America, millions of acres where the Obama/Biden administration expanded my gun rights under the CARD act of 2009, passed by a democratic controlled Congress and signed by a Democratic president.

        2. avatar CentralVirginian says:

          Miner look up operation chokepoint, it has nothing to do with current gun sales and you can thank Tom Coburn and a republican senate for that amendment to the card act.

        3. avatar Miner49er says:

          “you can thank Tom Coburn and a republican senate for that amendment to the card act.”

          That is interesting, apparently when the bill was signed into law Tom Coburn spelled his name ‘Barack Hussein Obama’.

        4. avatar Montana Actual says:

          What park do you frequent Miner? I’d love to hike with you.

    3. avatar De Facto says:

      Oh Miner, that was indeed so much worse than the Assault Rifle and high capacity mag ban that Obama/Biden wanted, and that Biden/Kamala/Beto are promising when they finish stealing the election.

      You should consider politics or journalism, those are other jobs where you’re paid to lie and tell halftruths.

      1. avatar Shire-man says:

        That Biden co-authored and got passed into law and we suffered under for 10 fucking years.

        I can’t believe some asshole is trying to pass off the whole reason for the AWB off as better than a meme-stock banner.

        10 fucking years. 10 FUCKKNG YEARS OF THAT SHIT. And plenty of states are still living with it.

        1. avatar Miner49er says:

          “10 FUCKKNG YEARS OF THAT SHIT.”

          Good Lord, what a whiny bunch of crybabies.

          AR15s have been available to the public for 50 years, no restrictions on sale, purchase, ownership or use.

          During that period, there was a 10 year stretch where retail sales were prohibited.

          But you could still buy from individuals, possess, transport, and use so-called assault weapons.

          You know, we wouldn’t have any problems if the gun community could self police and rid ourselves of the extremist nuts that currently infest our community. But no, you people whine about politicians campaign speeches while protecting memorials to traitorous Confederates who try to destroy the United States of America.

        2. avatar Manse Jolly says:

          I stated clearly that President Trump would be reelected. I still think he will be. ‘Mail-in voting’, fraud, the discovered software issue that miscounts votes for Biden, and SCOTUS is stepping in to look at PA finally.

          [email protected] I lived through the 10 years of that crap, please point me out to the AR I could have bought. No one was selling beyond what only rich people could afford. But since you are what you are that’s the play right? Only the rich, special people get these things.

          Funny..South Carolina, according to the elitists and MSM talking heads, the most hill-billy, inbred, uneducated, evolution denying State in the Union does elections correctly and gets the results the night of.

          This battle for the White House is not over…In fact, it only gets worse from here on out.

        3. avatar Shire-man says:

          I was still a minor when the AWB passed.
          I didn’t already have a rifle.
          I didn’t have the income to pay the exorbitant prices being asked for a private sale.
          10 years.
          10 YEARS.
          GONE.

          Biden, Clinton and the rest of those totalitarian, statist, banning, controlling assholes that stole a prime decade from me deserve to be kicked in the mouth until my steel toe pops out the back of their heads.

        4. avatar Miner49er says:

          “I didn’t have the income to pay the exorbitant prices being asked for a private sale.”

          I think one of the Trump boys may have explained that people like you aren’t successful because you don’t really work hard enough.

          You have got to want to be successful, apparently you haven’t hit the mark the Trump boys have set so you don’t have the money to buy the things you’d like to have.

          That’s why Eric and Don Junior are so successful, they work really hard, you should try it too.

        5. avatar Montana Actual says:

          That statement explains the most out of you I’ve ever seen miner whiner.

          Unsuccessful and it’s not your fault… Lol. Right.

          Very obvious you are in mommies basement now.

        6. avatar Montana Actual says:

          Also, miner, u talking about legally obtained and “law abiding” “gun extremists” or the ones who sell crack in Chicago?

          Just curious. Cuz majority of conservatives would love to see those communities police themselves like the rest of us responsible tax payers who work for a living and own guns. But when we show up, people like you go back the the “extremists” arguments. So which is it? You want our influence and militias, or not?

          I’d pay to see your Fucken head explode everytime someone turns your logic against you.

  11. avatar FB says:

    So what? in about 6 months, there will be not BATFE anymore. Alcohol will be illegal – if you want to get hammered, do it like the communists and get a joint. Tobacco will be illegal – if you want to smoke something do as everybody on the West coast and smoke your weed. Firearms? Lol – we don’t need it – just do it like everybody in Commifornia – bend over if somebody wants to fuck you…

    With this coming president, the BATFE will be the least of our problems.

    1. avatar That's some hilarius shit right there... says:

      Pathetic dude… you know they’s got drowns over your house watching you? Right?

  12. avatar bigtec says:

    To bad that clown didn’t do anything while he was in office except give the atf more power. Now its going to get worse. Only chance is the supreme court actually growing some balls and making a ruling.

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      Ironic that you would look to a female Justice to lead the Court into showing some balls.

  13. avatar enuf says:

    “The ATF is a Rogue Agency That Endangers the Freedom of Americans”

    Plus, it tends to place bullets into the bodies of innocent people.

    Starting with one of their earliest cases, the raid on Ken Ballew’s apartment in 1971. Agents broke down the back door, at night, as Ken was taking a shower. Hearing his wife scream and the sound of the heavy door being bashed in, he grabbed the only weapon he had. A cap and ball blackpowder revolver. They shot him for that.

    Naturally, turned out no crimes of illegalities were going on there. The hand grenades he was supposedly trafficking in were the sort of thing you can still buy today at gag gift shops, a “Take A Number” sign tied to the pin of a fake grenade.

    That was merely the beginning. Who here does not know how much worse the ATF has gotten in the nearly fifty years since? Their own agents killed via supervisory arrogance and incompetence. Cops from other agencies killed too. And of course innocent men, women and children from the Weaver’s to Waco to Narco gun thugs slaughter in Mexico using ATF guns and Brian Terry.

    The ATF should be disbanded. It’s law enforcement agents barred from any form of government or LEO employment.

    The bomb guys? Move them to the FBI as civilian scientists. Apparently, there ae some people there who do alright and do not actually shoot women and children.

    1. avatar Montana Actual says:

      Or dogs

  14. avatar Scott says:

    It’s not over til it’s over: Epoch Times article summarized below:

    “Alito granted a request by the state’s Republican party to separate mail-in ballots received between 8 p.m. Nov. 3 and 5 p.m. Nov. 6 from those that arrived by Election Day, in accordance with state guidance. He ordered (pdf) that those segregated ballots must be kept “in a secure, safe and sealed container separate from other voted ballots.””

    Trump’s legal team is quite good, particularly Jay Seculow and there are rumors that some method was used to mark ballots as valid for future analysis of voter fraud.

    1. avatar EpochTheHacker says:

      Weird thing is where are all the high powered, big money, killer shark top of the heap lawyers that volunteered on the Bush-Gore deal? The lawyers on this deal are the standard Trump camp followers. No big muscle has been sought out. no specialists called in. Rudy and Jay? Not exactly impressive talent on the job.

    2. avatar Nanashi says:

      Machine Identification Code is nothing special. Its been in all printers (at least the kind you’d find in a home or office) since the 80s and identifies print date and printer serial number. I can’t find documentation on if MIC is in industrial printers, and thus on ballots, but some have posted pictures of their unused mail in ballots that show MIC speckles. If it is on ballots and all the ballots for Biden that showed up after the election have the wrong MIC data, things will be interesting.

    3. avatar Miner49er says:

      Epoch Times? Give me a break, you people are indeed pathetic.

      The United States Constitution gives the state legislatures the power to oversee their elections, that’s part of what we liberal Democrats call ‘State’s Rights’.

      It is good that you finally have revealed yourselves as big government sucks, who are all too willing to trample on the rights of the several States when it serves your particular delusion.

      Hypocrisy, thy name is conservative Republican.

      1. avatar Montana Actual says:

        Which one trump’s the other again? Federal or state?

        K.

  15. avatar Shaun Woods says:

    “The purpose of government is to protect us from arbitrary and illegitimate force, to secure our rights — not to be the agent of their destruction.”

    Imagine being an adult and still believing this.

  16. avatar Chris Morton says:

    The BATFE also has a history of:
    * corruption
    * sex discrimination
    * racial discrimination
    * organized White supremacist activity
    * training personnel to lie under oath
    * excessive force

  17. avatar Dan says:

    MOST Fed agencies can be described as ‘rogue agencies that endager the freedom of America’.

  18. avatar Bandy says:

    I am a big GOO c*ck sucker and I believe government is there to protect us. I trust all government agencies and I firmly believe we never go at war for suspicious reasons, when troops are deployed in Iraq or Afghanistan, it surely is for our freedom. It is also necessary that anything Second Amendment related is firmly regulated by the government. I think with Joe Biden Americans will once again unite. Donald Drumpf has divided us with his big mouth and his addiction to Twitter.

    1. avatar Bandy says:

      *GOP c*ck sucker

    2. avatar Chris Morton says:

      You sound more like Hillary Clinton to me…

      1. avatar Bandy says:

        We need to all come together, Biden clearly said he wants to be President of ALL Americans. The Trump mafia has become like the Bush

        1. avatar Chris Morton says:

          And Hitler said he had no further territorial ambitions. Only a fool blindly believes the most transparent of lies. Of course Biden won’t be running ANYTHING. He’ll be nothing more than a puppet controlled by Kamala Himmler and the National Socialist wing of the Democrat party (which these days is the ENTIRE Democrat party)… that is until he refuses to step down and they give him the Ernst Roehm treatment.

        2. This video shows what a Biden presidency means for Black America.

      2. avatar Martha "Shrillery" McSally says:

        Yeah, that’s how I lost the election, shrill voice and no ideas of my own. How could I have been so foolish?

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