bump fire stock ban
Dan Z for TTAG
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If only someone could have foreseen that using regulatory fiat to magically declare that a bump stock is the same as a machine gun could prove to be problematic. A Sixth Circuit en banc panel has deadlocked 8-8 in the case of Gun Owners of America v. Garland. The tie vote leaves the lower court ruling — which upheld the ATF’s ban — in place.

From The Hill . . .

The Trump administration outlawed the devices after a gunman in Las Vegas in 2017 used the rapid-fire accessory to kill 58 people and wound hundreds in the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history. 

The [lower] court sided with the administration’s argument that the ban falls within the scope of authority Congress gave federal agencies to regulate machine guns.

Some excused the Trump administration’s move at the time as three-dimentional chess. They argued that had Trump not banned the stocks via the regulatory process, there was sufficient momentum in Congress following the Las Vegas shooting to pass legislation outlawing them.

“GOA’s fight is not over,” said the group’s senior vice president Erich Pratt. “The fact that the Sixth Circuit was so divided that it could not even give us an answer to our question means that the Supreme Court must eventually decide whether unelected (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms) bureaucrats have the power to create new federal crimes out of thin air.”

You can read the court’s ruling here (h/t Rob Romano). Don’t touch that dial.

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  1. Banning bump stocks makes as much sense as banning SUVs because Darrell Brooks used an SUV to murder innocent people at a Christmas parade in Wisconsin.

  2. “Sixth Circuit Deadlock Leaves Trump Bump Stock Ban in Place“

    “Trump Bump Stock Ban“

    “From The Hill . . .

    The Trump administration outlawed the devices… “

    There it is, case closed.

  3. Former One Term President Donald Trump is neither conservative nor a friend of the 2A.

    • Those who read only the headlines and tripped over each other to throw POTUS DJT under the bus over dumpstocks helped usher in Jim Crow Gun Control joe.
      The dumpstock drama queens did not know when to stfu and wait to fight another day. In the meantime and thanks to POTUS DJT the much better Binary Triggers advertised on this forum remained available for those who can afford to waste ammo, etc.
      The very individuals who bashed POTUS DJT the most are dead silent when it comes to hanging racism and genocide around the neck of Gun Control. That is exactly why every time a tragedy occurs the 2A is the expected target while the horrific atrocities attributed to Gun Control are out of sight and out of mind…Especially among the politically inept history illiterate dumpstock crybaby brats.

    • Far too many on the right wanted him to be so badly that the fact that he isn’t was completely overlooked. Much the same way the communistic fascism of the left is overlooked. Trump is not now nor has he ever been a ‘gun guy’. The fact that the NRA backed him does NOT make him a gun guy. THAT was about money and looks. Anyone that votes for him thinking he is a conservative or a pro-2A guy is fooling themselves.

      Personally, I never voted for him for being a conservative or a 2A proponent. I voted for him because he was needed. I would vote for him again if he runs because he is still needed. Trump is not pro-2A. He is pro-American. The 2nd is part of the American Constitution. He is not against the right to keep and bear arms specifically because of THAT.

      People attach the bump stock situation to Trump because it was his official approval as the highest authority involved. For that, I understand. What is important to consider is that it NEVER would have even reached that point without the NRA green lighting a ban in the first place. For that, I blame the NRA. NOT Trump. Personally, there is absolutely nothing about the bump stock situation that I find any less than completely ridiculous.

    • “…President Donald Trump is neither conservative nor a friend of the 2A.”

      Justice Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh, and Amy Coney Barrett are living proof Trump is a true friend of the 2A.

      Do you seriously believe 3 justices appointed by Hillary have would voted to grant Cert. on the NY Pistol carry case argued a month back and to be decided in a few months?

      Suck on Trump long and hard, Leftist scum… 😉

      • That proof has yet to actually bare fruit. I completely agree that these three are infinitely better than anything Clinton would have done though. Putting conservatives on the bench does not require ‘being’ conservative. It is however a smart thing to do.

        Being pro-2A is not the same thing as being a ‘friend of’ the 2nd. Just like you can be a fan of Apple products and not own any stock in their company.

    • “Former One Term President Donald Trump is neither conservative nor a friend of the 2A.”

      Finally someone else who is awake. I thought I was alone. He isn’t fiscally, morally, nor socially conservative. He was Republican but that does not equal conservative if you look around. He also said, “take the guns first, due process second.” That’s American for sure.

  4. So the courts are continuing to demonstrate that they don’t operate on the basis of written law; this is my surprised face

    • Exactly. It’s expected. They can keep playing catch up and we’ll just keep making new ways around their bullshit. I actually just got a WOT and there is really no point in paying for that stamp anymore. Only stamp worth it is suppressors, cuz you can get around that SBR bullshit by pinning.

  5. Guns are a threat to the absolute power of the corrupt court system in the U.S. The courts have traditionally been hostile to all gun ownership so this is no surprise.

    On the practical and sane side of the ban it was correct as no one wants to see another Paddock use a bump stock to mass murder people 400 plus yards away as is what happened in Los Vegas. Of course the Far Right Nut Cases will scream “Losses can never be to high”. There is no reasoning with insane, paranoid, people.

    • Amazing. You almost made an intelligible statement to open with. Now, about banning stuff because someone used it to commit a crime:
      Knives, of all types.
      Broken glass bottles.
      Open hands.
      Swimming pools.
      Sticks, with or without pointy ends.
      Blunt instruments of any description.
      Cars, trucks, SUVs, delivery trucks and 18-wheeler.

      feel free to add other items you want to see banned

        • Which is exactly what you openly fantasized about that time you wished the federal police would have used their automatic rifles on unarmed protesters. Murder is always wrong. You’re a hop, skip, and a jump away from being the FAS kid fantasizing about murdering people with his drawings. Lucky for us you’re a coward, and only fantasize about other people doing your dirty work for you.

    • Paddock was an activist murderer who used what he wanted to see banned. If he had wanted to go for effectiveness, he had a year to plan. He could have bought a M1919 light machinegun and fired from a tripod for real effect on target. He had the means and a clean record. But that wouldn’t have advanced assault weapon bans and completely derailed the HPA.
      This wasn’t random mass murder, it was political terrorism.

    • Maybe you could provide a link to the ATF report on their analysis of the weapons used in that attack? And if not ATF then LVMPD? But you can’t because neither of those organizations has ever provided any such report. The truth is that we, the public do not know what weapon was used. It could have been a bump stock, or he could have had actual automatic weapons.

  6. I am surprised that there are no conspiracy theories about those Las Vegas shootings, I suppose its because the G never propounded a theory.

    • “…the G never propounded a theory….”

      Never to the general public anyway, but I’m sure they have more information and a motivation. My guess is the information being held would cause some issues. Disruption of the public calm.

    • nobody really knows why he did it…maybe fulfilling a violent fantasy?…hard to make sense of it

  7. There is another case from the 10th circuit, Aposhian v. Garland, that the USSC has distributed for conference. It has morphed somewhat to a question about the magic spell ATF used to create this regulation out of thin air, called Chevron deference. Chevron says (roughly) that if congress has passed a weak-ass law granting random power to the administration, then the courts should give the alphabet agencies wide discretion to interpret those laws. It would do all kinds of good to make that go away beyond this bump stock crap.

    • “It has morphed somewhat to a question about the magic spell ATF used to create this regulation out of thin air, called Chevron deference.”

      Justice Thomas had made noises about limiting Federal over-reach by regulatory bodies like the EPA, so if it gets granted Cert. and we get what we want from the ‘NY Pistol’ decision, good things may be about to start happening, legally-speaking.

  8. i’ll keep it bump’n with no mask, no vaccine and all the fucking bump stocks in the world.

    but when they come after me for all that, I will make sure I take a few on the way out


    • I make no comment here, whether I agree with you or not. I will point out that your excessive rhetoric may come back to haunt you. You might want to tone it down just a decibel or two?

    • Other than the company that destroyed 50,000 that were in stock, I think less than 1000 have been turned in, the rest were lost in a boating accident.

  9. Trump never banned bump stocks. He told the DoJ and ATF to look into what could be done and the ATF rewrote the definition in the 1934 NFA, not having the authority to do so.

  10. I am also going to say that an analysis of the cell phone video on the sound of the gunshots was too slow for a bump stock which can fire the AR15 at 900 to 950 rounds per minutes, the same as the M16. It takes a skilled user to do that. I heard only 600 to 650 RPM which is the low setting on the M249 Light Machine Gun, most likely supplied by the FBI to force a ban on bump stocks by laying the blame on them. 100 rounds fired and a 30 second pause before the next 100 rounds were fired. M249 LMG uses 100 round belts of ammo, 30 seconds is needed to allow the barrel to cool and load the new belt. The FBI did NOT allow the ATF to inspect any of the weapons, and pictures that I saw did NOT show any bump stocks on the ARs, only MagPul MOE Carbine stocks.

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