US Rep. Matt Gaetz Goes After ATF’s Apparent Plans to Restrict Pistol Braces

SB Tactical FS1913 Brace on Black Collar Arms Pork Sword Pistol

Jeremy S. for TTAG: Black Collar Arms Pork Sword Pistol with SB Tactical FS1913A Brace

“We understand that ATF is currently considering restricting one arm brace model owned by over 700,000 Americans,” says Congressman Gaetz (R – FL). While this sounds like yet another cruel 2020 plot twist, TTAG spoke with Alex Bosco, CEO of SB Tactical (creator of the original Pistol Stabilizing Brace and the 800-lb gorilla in the space, both in sales and in legislative muscle). He explained that this is actually good news.

But first, the scary stuff! See Congressman Gaetz’s press release for the complete story, but here are a couple of important snippets:

Congressman Matt Gaetz announced today on his podcast the ATF is crafting secret rules restricting the possession of certain pistol braces by American citizens…

…But now, what we find, is that the ATF is making it very difficult for people to have arm braces. They’re changing standards and changing rules.

Rep. Gaetz has reacted to this by sending what I can only assume are two very strongly-worded letters to the ATF demanding that they knock it off and to the DOJ asking for a review of the ATF’s decision-making.

But here’s the important part from his press release:

…[Congressman Gaetz] is concerned about the ATF’s practice of creating secret regulation, which could have devastating impacts on law-abiding citizens.

This is the crux of why Rep. Gaetz’s story is good news for the black collar community, despite looking like quite the opposite at first glance.

SB Tactical CEO Bosco explained to TTAG that nothing has changed at ATF since about 2015 regarding pistol braces. There is no new push for restrictions on arm braces; this is the same push that has been ongoing.

Here’s SB Tactical’s official statement on the matter:

Although this may seem alarming, it is, in fact, nothing new. Since 2015, SB Tactical has been actively engaged in discussions with the ATF and working tirelessly to encourage them to provide clear and public guidance regarding what constitutes a brace and the standards by which braces are measured. At this time, we are unaware of any plans by the ATF to make any announcements regarding Pistol Stabilizing Braces. We are grateful that Congressman Matt Gaetz, Bill Posey, John Rutherford, Daniel Webster, Neil P. Dunn, W. Gregory Steube, and Ted S. Yoho are committed to protecting the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding Americans.

So, what has changed that led Rep. Gaetz to publish this notice? Congress has taken notice. They are looking into the ATF’s practice of arbitrarily, suddenly, and “secretly” (in so far as they make no public mention) creating and changing firearms regulations…and then attempting to prosecute based on these rules.

For instance, the 13.5-inch length of pull maximum for pistol braces that nobody knew was a thing and led to the prosecution of this guy. Congress is finally doing a deep dive and finding out exactly why we’ve been complaining about the ATF and why we’ve been contacting our representatives about them. They have apparently now seen how this alphabet agency legislates by fiat, creating secret, unpublished rules and then using them to go after law-abiding citizens.

Rep. Matt Gaetz, R-Fla. (AP Photo/Alex Brandon)

This sort of behavior — bureaucratic agencies effectively creating laws rather than implementing or enforcing them — is precisely what this 2019 Executive Order from President Trump is designed to prohibit. Here’s a Bloomberg article (sorry) summarizing the purpose of it and another, similar EO signed on the same day.

Worse than simply creating new rules is the fact that they often exist solely in agency-internal memos. The public isn’t notified of the rules (let alone given a public comment period, such as what happened with the proposed M855 ammo ban), yet the agency attempts to actively enforce them on otherwise law-abiding folk with no intention or knowledge of breaking the law.

Imagine if speed limits were like this, set by some faceless agency — but only internally — so drivers have no way of knowing what the speed limit is on any given road. Yet they’re liable for violating the limit and ticketed when they do. Now imagine, as is the case with many of these ATF rules, that the charge for such a violation is a 10-year federal felony.

Mr. Bosco is more deeply involved in the politics and legalities of pistol stabilizing braces than anyone. He’s in DC regularly and SB Tactical and their attorneys (most notably Mike Sullivan…yes, that Mike Sullivan, former Director of the ATF) are in direct, frequent communication with the top brass of the ATF and the ATF’s legal team.

So when Bosco says he isn’t aware of any pending announcements relating to new pistol brace regulation and that, based on what he’s aware of today, the only change here is that Congress has finally taken notice of the ATF’s regulatory antics, I believe it. And it’s about time.

Good news.

comments

  1. avatar Mike says:

    Simple solution. Do away with Minimum barrel length for rifles and shotguns. Executive order?
    Make Silencers similar to pistols purchases

    1. avatar 9x39 says:

      They all should be entirely deregulated. I hate to use Europe as an example, but… On suppressors, that they have right over there.

      1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

        Same in South Africa. Silencers, I mean.

        1. avatar asdf says:

          And Namibia.

        2. avatar Ross says:

          New Zealand also

      2. avatar Doug Crouse says:

        Even in Canada short shotguns are legal. I just watched a video of some crazy Canadian shooting a 12 gauge single shot pistol commercially built I think by Rossi.

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Sheesh. Sell silencers over the counter or mail order, a silencer never hurt anyone. Do away with barrel length restrictions and ATF at the same time.

    3. avatar Andy says:

      No Sir, the simple solution is to put all of ATF eieio in the unemployment line. Yessir, how about we defund the ATF and shut em down?

      1. avatar Diana says:

        I agree it is not needed in America, and Constitutional Carry needs in All 50 states, no registration, no license, only if you are on mental health medication should you have any restrictions, we need to get rid of all these 3 letter departments in the government, most do the same thing as the next one a waist of Taxpayers Money

    4. avatar Nanashi says:

      Even simplier solution: Rule the NFA is too vague to pass the test of US v. Miller.

      1. avatar Nanashi says:

        Meant the test of Chicago v. Morales.

        1. avatar 9x39 says:

          Being forthright concerning U.S. v. Miller’s ruling, NFA 1934 has been largely gutted by the US Military itself since the inception of the ruling. Seeing as the held standard for the protections of the 2nd determined in Miller, was weapons of a militarily important nature to be protected only, that blew out almost all of NFA 1934 in one fell swoop.

          Strangely, or more likely purposefully, the courts have ignored that ever since 1939. Including SCOTUS. Regarding the dispensation of the Miller case, his conviction based on the claim that NFA 1934 was violated, was firmly on the incorrect side. Shorter barreled shotguns were in military use in the U.S., arguably since the revolutionary war with the shorter blunderbuss’s,

    5. avatar Cale15 says:

      Executive order by what President! In case you’re slow Trump is the one letting this happen just like the bump stock ban That everybody said didn’t matter

      1. avatar DCO777 says:

        Folks forget WHO suggested the administrative banning of “Bumpstocks”. Was it the Brady Gang? Nope. Was it “Everytown For Gun Safety”? Nope.

        It was Wayne Lapierre’s NRA that told him it was just fine, do it. Folks keep mistaking a President with no indepth knowledge of guns turning to the supposed “Gun Rights Leader” for help, and NRA stabbing gun owners in the back for the President being the problem. This happened in 1986 with FOPA when Reagan asked NRA why folks were upset about it (The 922(o) ban on new machine guns) and Wayne’s controlled NRA told him it was fine to sign.

        Trump is NYC born and bred. Until last year he lived their his ENTIRE life. Where was he going to acquire extensive knowledge of guns? His sons who live and have homes outside NY State convinced him to be progun.

        He has little knowledge, and as busy as he is never going to acquire it. That’s leaves Wayne’s NRA as the “Authority” on guns. Wayne cares about Wayne, and Wayne’s friends and business associates profiting off NRA. Not actual gun rights. In fact the more legislation that passes, and is introduced the more fund raising letters he can send claiming it’s a “Five Alarm Emergency, send money RIGHT NOW!” so he has more to spend.

        The NRA has dome a lot of good over the years, but when Wayne is firmly in control it doesn’t. It sends out letters begging for money because “YOUR SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS ARE IN JEOPARDY!”, and maybe blocks something from passing. Mostly they posture.

        So please don’t beat up on Trump for listening to the NRA when the truth is he knows almost nothing about guns (Like Reagan too.) and they led him astray.

        I can’t wait till the November election is over and the NY Attorney General goes after Wayne and company full bore. They are messing with NRA right now hoping to paralyze them for the Election Season, not closing in for the kill.

        Once the Election is decided they are going after their NonProfit charter and there are rumors of fraud charges too. Watching Wayne and his profiteers removed, or even better perp walked out will be great.

        The NRA can reinvent itself far from the shadow of NYC, which rules NY State with an iron fist. Also separate the legislative areas even more from safety and competition branches.

        Or better yet, get NRA out of legislation and rights, so the industry sponsoring competitions won’t be used an excuse to say the gun industry “Bought the NRA” and only wants to sell guns, even to toddlers and the mentally ill.

    6. avatar The Olympic Snorch says:

      Nobody with a chance of writing an EO cares what you want. You’ll vote for one of them anyway.

  2. avatar Some_Dude says:

    Don’t worry Trumpy and his Fudds will save us from any new regulations.

    1. avatar Jeremy S. says:

      There are many Obama appointees who are still higher-ups at ATF. If they can do something that will hurt Trump this November, including any anti-2A thing they can try to pin on Trump, they just might. This is the only outside risk to a curve ball coming — it’ll be an October surprise. The goal would be to get black collar folk to stay home rather than voting for Trump as they otherwise likely would have.

      To this I might remind you that it’s a binary choice. Clearly President Trump is not as hardcore black collar (pro-2A) as we would like, but he’s infinitely better than the alternative. And Donald Trump Jr is a huge gun guy who’s a big friend of the industry and obviously has his dad’s ear, so hopefully that means something. It’s certainly better than the people who will be whispering in Biden’s ear (or full-on directing him Weekend at Bernie’s style, which I’m fairly sure is how his presidency would work).

      1. avatar John A. Smith says:

        “There are many Obama appointees who are still higher-ups at ATF. If they can do something that will hurt Trump this November, including any anti-2A thing they can try to pin on Trump, they just might.”

        As I note, below, ATF answers to DOJ, which answers to Barr, which answers to Trump. Both Lombardo and Richardson are Trump appointees, and pistol braces are a C level policy decision. Meaning, both Lombardo and Richardson are making the call — policy changes at this level aren’t made by nameless “higher-ups” at ATF.

        1. avatar Jeremy S. says:

          I’m not sure that’s true. The Firearms Technology Branch creates a lot of these determinations. The Chief of that branch typically signs off on any letters that result in these determinations, but I don’t know who’s involved in actually coming up with them or how much control the Chief takes. Nor do I know how the Chief is selected to that position and whether they’re an appointee by the Presidential administration or if it just happens internally like being promoted in a private company works. I don’t think there’s a specific reason to believe that all determinations of this nature go up to the level of Presidential appointees or anyone C-Level having to sign off on them. Certainly tons of decisions are made at lower levels all the time — decisions that result in rules that result in prosecutions. I don’t know if Tech Branch determinations are one of those but they issue these sorts of determinations nearly constantly, so I really can’t envision they’re always being approved by the C-Level.

          Here’s one example that was signed off on by the Chief of the FTB: https://princelaw.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/atf-folded-brace_redacted.pdf

        2. avatar ARLuv says:

          Richardson and Lombardi are career people at atf not presidential appointees. The last presidential appointee was B Todd Jones under Obama. Trump has not changed anyone or appointed anyone to atf since his election.

        3. avatar John A. Smith says:

          ARLuv:

          Lombardo is an acting appointee under the FVRA; she was selected and appointed by Trump, but not confirmed because everyone knew she was only interim. After 210 days her appointment lapsed. Lombardo has already been reappointed once because the Canterbury appointment blew up in Trump’s face in the Senate and she could sit for a second 210 day period.

        4. avatar LarryinTX says:

          John, may I assume that is why Comey, McCabe, Strozk, etc, were so hugely supportive of Trump? There are legislators in the House and Senate who are obviously working precisely at Trump’s direction, except they are not, and would shoot him in the back in a minute. Your assumptions are pretty naive at this point in time.

        5. avatar John A. Smith says:

          LarryinTX:

          Comey was appointed by Director by Obama and was removed by Trump 3 months after he took office. McCabe was positioned by Comey, as was Strzok. I really do take exception to your accusation of naivete; as an attorney in my practice area, I regularly work alongside a host of lawyers and agents at most of the big federal executive agencies. The amount of discretion they don’t have would shock you. To give you an example, to settle even a small FCA case, an AUSA needs sign off from his section chief, the USAO for his district, and an AAG at DOJ delegated directly by the Deputy Director — then he needs sign off from the GC at whichever agency is implicated by the case. Rosenstein, literally, (according to the AAGs and AUSAs on some of the cases I’ve done) reviewed and signed off on any settlement. The idea that any one person, or even a small group that doesn’t work directly with the political appointees, could make a policy decision is simply laughable.

        6. avatar Miner49er says:

          Mr. John Smith,

          Please give it up with your laughable ‘faCT’s and experience‘, you clearly aren’t getting with the program.

          Now repeat after me,

          Everything bad that happens is due to Barack Obama, secret Muslim terrorist.

          The government is filled with secret Obama supporters, who have been hibernating in the Trump administration for almost 4 years, awaiting their chance to attack good American patriots.

          Now say 2 Benghazis and 4 cosmic Pizzas and sin no more.

        7. avatar John A. Smith says:

          Miner49er: LOL, well played.

    2. avatar Chris Brown says:

      What a stupid comment.

    3. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      Yeah Rite !

      1. avatar Madcapp says:

        Scottish rite.

    4. avatar The Olympic Snorch says:

      Would you rather Hillary ?1!?¡! TRimp Derangement Syndrome strikes again.*

      *sarcasm

  3. avatar JLo says:

    Just make it simple and get rid of this arbitrary garbage. SBR’s, suppressors, open it all up. ‘American citizen? Guess what, you get it all’. How it should be.

    How bout we have stricter protocols on opioids, anti-psychotic drugs, anti depressants and such? That makes more sense. ATF = Attack The Fudd

    1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      As the ATF is not a Constitutionally authorized agency would’t it make more sense to do away with it.

      1. avatar DrRJP says:

        We should do away with ALL of the alphabet agencies since none of them are mentioned in the Constitution.

        I’d like to see the DOE, EPA and HUD be the first ones to go after the ATF.

      2. avatar JLo says:

        Oh absolutely. Take the DEA with it too. These two agencies have more money allocated to them compared to our federal education budget. That says it all.

      3. avatar TheBSonTTAG says:

        The Post Office is the only authorized Governement Agency in the Constitution. Ironically Republicans are trying as hard as possible to kill it off so you can look to pay 3-4 times more to ship a package.

        Fun fact: In 2006 the Republicans passed the Postal Acountability Act. This required them to pay for retiree benefits 70 years in advance. This accounts for nearly all of the Post Office losses, before that they were making a profit.

        1. avatar guest says:

          The free market already beats USPS on price.

        2. avatar Fake McName says:

          “The free market already beats USPS on price.”

          Umm, no. Go to one of those shipping centers that offer USPS, FedEx, and UPS and they can cost compare right at the counter for you. Until you get bigger than the medium flat rate box, the post office wins hands down. For something the size of a letter, it’s not even close.

          USPS is not allowed to compete in the “free market” because Congress caps how much they can raise rates and fixed them to pre-fund their pension plan. Private companies don’t have these restrictions. You can’t tie their hands behind their back and then fault them for not turning a profit.

        3. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “You can’t tie their hands behind their back and then fault them for not turning a profit.”

          Exactly. Making the PO a government corporation was designed to do one thing…get the postal deficits off the federal budget overruns. Congress couldn’t use legislation to dissolve the constitutional requirement to have and fund a postal service, but Congress could use legislation to obscure the budget legerdemain.

    2. avatar randomname says:

      Strict protocols on opioids? They already are far too strict, my father just had a quadruple bypass and they gave him 10 pills no more, for his entire recovery. Does that make any sense to you, open heart surgery? We are life or death need of less government not more.

      1. avatar JLo says:

        Sorry to hear about that. But I’m talking about a broad level here, not individual cases.

  4. avatar sound awake says:

    meanwhile:
    “The ratio of knife-to-rifle related deaths also grew from the previous year’s statistic of more than four knife murders for every one murder with a rifle.”

    1. avatar DrRJP says:

      Forget knives. There are ten times more homicides committed by fists than by rifles.

  5. avatar Dennis says:

    That’s what they do! Keep chipping away hopin most people wont notice or wont care! Until that is, their precious rights start being violated.

  6. avatar John A. Smith says:

    I love how Trump — supposedly the guy we’re supposed to vote for in November — isn’t doing a damned thing to stop the gun grabbers, but everyone is pretending he is just because he issued a lukewarm statement on what agencies ought to tell the public. If he were actually respected our rights he’d direct ATF to cut it out; they’re under DOJ, which means they answer to Barr, which means they answer to Trump. You’re getting played.

    1. avatar Jeremy S. says:

      One thing has changed for the better: they can and will use Trump’s 2019 EOs to restrict the ATF’s ability to do this kind of stuff. And, now, it’s specifically on their radar to do so and they’re investigating it. So they have both the interest and the authority. It’s a good development.

      1. avatar John A. Smith says:

        Jeremy S.:

        I hope you’re correct, but I fear you are not. I don’t work with ATF in my practice, but I do work with DOJ and USAOs across the country. As part of the cases I litigate, we end up working alongside — via counsel at DOJ (and agency counsel) — CMS, FDA, DHS, FBI, and DoD. I can tell you, with near 100% certainty, that if an executive agency is being investigated the investigation and heat will come through OIG (officially) and directly down from DOJ (unofficially) if there is some impropriety alleged. If there’s an actual difference in implemented policy, rather than an impropriety, there isn’t an OIG investigation — there is a directive to the agency about what its position needs to be and it changes overnight. Gaetz’ is peacocking on the issue, in my opinion. If there was any real desire at the executive level to change it, it would have already changed. That’s why we saw the Wright prosecution in the ND Ohio.

        1. avatar andrewinVA says:

          “Gaetz’ is peacocking on the issue”

          100%

        2. avatar Biatec says:

          Yes this.

    2. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      “You’re getting played.”

      By both sides, two different sides of the same filthy corrupt coin, just as it always has been.

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        I yearn for the good old days, when a presidential administration would fight to expand gun rights, over the objections of the NRA:

        “Despite the fact that the Obama administration approved the sale of bump fire stocks on at least two occasions, the National Rifle Association is calling on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to immediately review whether these devices comply with federal law,” the NRA wrote in a statement. “The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semiautomatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations.”

        “NRA spokeswoman Amy Hunter pointed us to a June 2010 approval letter from ATF, an agency under executive purview, sent to Slide Fire, a bump stock manufacturer. Spelling out the legal definition of a firearm, ATF’s technology chief John Spencer determined it was not regulated by law.“

        “The stock has no automatically functioning mechanical parts or springs and performs no automatic mechanical function when installed,” Spencer wrote. “Accordingly, we find that the ‘bump-stock’ is a firearm part and is not regulated as a firearm under Gun Control Act or the National Firearms Act.”

    3. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Have you paid any attention *AT ALL* to Biden’s pronouncements on the subject? Good lord, how can people be so damn STUPID as to pick nits about Trump, when Biden has already announced Beto as his gun confiscator-in-chief, and is loudly proclaiming how quickly he would move to outlaw this, that, and the other thing, with zero consideration of the 2A or any other part of the Constitution? There are TWO candidates, not 2000, Trump will not be suddenly replaced on the ballot, and neither will Biden, unless you know something nobody else does. Such infantile criticism of Trump makes it obvious you are a troll, simply trying to confuse people in the hope we can get a brain dead moron elected.

      1. avatar John A. Smith says:

        LarryinTX

        “Such infantile criticism of Trump makes it obvious you are a troll, simply trying to confuse people in the hope we can get a brain dead moron elected.”

        I’m not a one issue voter, Larry. Gun rights are important to me, but they’re not the be all end all of policy issues. Similarly situated voters who don’t strongly support Trump on other issues need something to show that he’s doing enough on the gun rights side to make the other perceived downsides of electing him less important. Because for a lot of otherwise good R voters, just saying that Biden is going to be that much worse on gun rights isn’t going to bring them to the polls for Trump. Being lukewarm on guns is the worst thing Trump could be doing right now.

        1. avatar cloud says:

          you’re an idiot.

        2. avatar D.T.O.M. says:

          John Smith writes; “…I’m not a one issue voter…Being lukewarm on guns is the WORST thing Trump could be doing right now….”

          “..the WORST thing..” ? Have you not been following along in 2020 at all?

          Fake Impeachment,
          Covid 19,
          economy shut down,
          3 Trillion added to the debt,
          riots, burning and looting,
          people being fired for voicing very moderate opinions,
          the new ‘country’ of CHAZ/CHOP,
          SCOTUS ignoring the 2A,
          China rising,

          ….but yeah internal ATF talk about arm braces is Trumps fault and is what is going to drive people to the polls.
          (INSERTS Krysten Ritter Eye Roll GIF HERE… https://giphy.com/gifs/eye-roll-jane-krysten-ritter-PprHjp7DCw4BW )

          As silly as it is, most people don’t vote out of gratitude, they vote out of fear, or anger. And America best fear a Biden (or any Democrat) administration.

          After they get done packing the Supreme Court, and opening the borders to the entire world (while giving them free health care and other benefits) placing those new “Voters” in Red States, where they will mail them a ballot…Permanently making the U.S. a blue and therefore a Socialist, Fascist, and Communist country …Well after two years of this Orwellian ‘new normal’ you will be jerking it to a pic of Trump wishing for the days you could get self-righteous about pistol braces.

      2. avatar guest says:

        There are more than two, and I am voting for the one who has promised to abolish the ATF.

    4. avatar DrRJP says:

      In case you haven’t noticed, the President has a lot more important things to worry about than your pathetic rant.

    5. avatar guest says:

      Guess you’d better vote for Biden then.

  7. avatar I Haz A Question says:

    “Imagine if speed limits were like this, set by some faceless agency — but only internally — so drivers have no way of knowing what the speed limit is on any given road.”

    That is exactly what happened to my wife years ago on a stretch of road only a few miles from our home. She was involved in a minor vehicular accident that any reasonable person would have easily said was the fault of the other driver. However, both insurance companies (ours and the other driver’s) eventually ruled that it was my wife’s fault. We contested it and contacted our local City Hall to obtain evidence that the other driver’s actions were not permissible because there were no signs posted allowing the turn he made that resulted in striking my wife’s car. To our surprise, the Traffic Manager said the City had it on the books that the driver’s actions were indeed permissible at that corner, and that no signage was legally required by the City to notify the driving public.

    That was my wake-up call that government truly doesn’t know what the heck it’s doing.

    1. avatar LifeSavor says:

      We should financially reward legislators and regulators whose efforts result in a net reduction of laws and regulations. Bonuses and public recognition for reducing the regulatory burden.

    2. avatar Bruce says:

      U.S. Constitution 5th and 14th Amdts Due Process rights require publication.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “U.S. Constitution 5th and 14th Amdts Due Process rights require publication.”

        SCOTUS declared that executive agencies can make interpretations of their regulations, without the need to publish them as official changes; Chevron Doctrine. Also, those interpretations are not subject to judicial review.

    3. avatar Peter says:

      Were there any signs prohibiting the turn that the other guy made? There are rules of the road that are not regulated by signs which every driver is supposed to know.

      Just saying.

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        The other driver came to a complete and abrupt stop in the #1 (fast) lane of a three-lane roadway in order to make a u-turn through the median divider that was shaped for a u-turn lane from only the opposite direction. The other driver had no turn signal engaged to communicate his intention. This resulted in traffic behind the driver having to deal with the unexpected sight of a stopped vehicle in the fast lane, and swerving around it. When the driver finally proceeded to make the u-turn into oncoming traffic, those drivers also had to deal with the sight of a vehicle making an unexpected turn thru a section of median that was not “curbed” for it.

        The City Traffic Manager said such a turn was indeed allowed, per the City’s books. Any reasonable person – including our own insurance adjuster, who was shocked – would have thought the turn was not permissible and therefore the cause of the accident.

  8. avatar Shire-man says:

    Ignorance of the law not being an excuse is pretty ignorant now that 98% of the laws on the book are bureaucratic and Kafkaesque in nature and have nothing at all to do with protecting life, liberty or property.

  9. avatar WhatAboutThis? says:

    The only way POTG win this argument for the RKBA is to take to the streets, throw rocks through business windows of Dicks, BoA, Walmart, Kroger, Fred Meyer, Toms, etc., take over large blocks of inner city, extort money from mothers against military-style weapons and give it to pro-2A groups, and spray graffiti like “abolish ATF, “ all ATF are Fudds” and “bird guns are for serfs” on public property. The anti-freedom anti-2A progressive, Democrat, socialists, communists are sure to fully embrace the 2A and everyone will get free SBRs, suppressors, NFA-type pistols, high capacity feeding devices, and bump stocks. Right?

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      Well, I suppose so, if you consider the BLM/Antifa/CHAZ methodology as a “winning” and lasting strategy.

      Or…we could continue with the moral high road, and let the above groups burn themselves out via the natural losing outcomes of their folly.

      1. avatar HK43 says:

        Except that doesn’t happen, ever.

        The left won the culture war using those tactics, take your high road crap back to Oleg Volk or whoever put that silly idea in your head and demand a refund.

        1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          No, the Left has won certain skirmishes and battles. But then, so has the Right. The war continues.

          Go ahead and adopt the Left’s strategies. Take your place on their side of the line. Good luck.

        2. avatar LifeSavor says:

          HK43,

          Different slant: They did not win the culture wars through violence, they won through money. They bought the media, they bought the universities and colleges. They bought elections in big cities. That is why they can get away with the violence.

          Not trying to be argumentative, just posing another perspective.

    2. avatar LifeSavor says:

      WAT,

      Appreciate your sentiment. I have the same visceral reaction, some days. The child throwing the tantrum gets all the attention. However, that child is not going to win elections; he (sexist statement alert!!) will alienate his peers and supporting adults. Bottom line: elections in Nov go toward the conservatives.

      Still, sometimes I feel like throwing a tantrum.

      1. avatar WhatAboutThis? says:

        I agree, but it’s fun to throw in some sarcasm from time to time.

        1. avatar WhatAboutThis! says:

          By the way, “Defund ATF Now!” graffiti on Starbucks windows is something to smile about.

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Looting Dicks could be fun. Burning even more so.

        3. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

          “Looting Dicks could be fun.”

          No where near as fun as it could be… *snicker*… 🙂

  10. avatar sound awake says:

    every year:
    10 thousand firearm murders
    over 60 thousand drug overdose deaths
    over 35 thousand vehicle accident fatalities
    between 200 and 400 thousand medical malpractice deaths
    10 thousand drunk driving deaths

    so yeah…lets go after pistol braces…which are used so little in crime that an internet search for “ar pistols used in crime” yields no practical or useful results

    1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      I can only think of one and the Commicrat media and investigative agency completely missed it,I would link it but there is no use to point it out to the Leftards.

    2. avatar Docduracoat says:

      Would you please stop using reason and logic to respond to the gun grabbers?
      They want you disarmed so they can control you and oppress you.
      They keep ratcheting up the gun control with all these smaller bans.
      Bump stocks, magazine limits, all kinds of restrictions. but it always gets more restrictive, never less.
      Our only response should be not 1 inch, no compromise.

      1. avatar Someone says:

        “Our only response should be not 1 inch, no compromise.”
        Right. But that’s not enough. We need to push back twice as hard to regain some of the lost territory. Otherwise each occasional gun grabber’s win tightens the screws of public disarmament like a ratchet. We can’t win by only playing defense.

        1. avatar Tired of the bs says:

          This !^^^ We need to be on the offensive at all times. It’s like the lottery you don’t win if you don’t play. If we don’t push back nothing will ever be regained. The rino losers piss me off more than the dems in this regard.

  11. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

    “Congressman Matt Gaetz announced today on his podcast the ATF is crafting secret rules restricting the possession of certain pistol braces by American citizens” – In other words, Rep. Gaetz speculates on a restriction he has no knowledge of so he can fire up his supporters with his valiant letters opposing the non-existent rules, and claim victory for scarign the ATF into submission when they turn out to never materialize. Quite brilliant from a marketing viewpoint, so long as his supporters don’t catch on.

    1. avatar Peter says:

      In other words,you just made a completely stupid statement because you prefer to vote for Democrats.

      1. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

        I’ll happily concede that your interpretstion wins for stupidity.

        1. avatar Phantom30 says:

          ECC 10:2-3 never argue with a fool. Anybody whose heart tends to the left is by definition a fool which includes all Dem.

  12. avatar Hasaf says:

    There should be no doubt that the braces will eventually go away. It might be by fiat, like with the bump stocks. It may be by legislation.

    If something about the “arm brace loophole” catches the attention of the media then you can expect to see them banned. I am more concerned with an expansion of the Hughes Amendment that may forbid future licensing of NFA items. Let’s face it, this is more likely than a repeal of provisions of the NFA.

    This is the very reason that we need to continue the assault on the Hughes Amendment, such as an open period, to bring modern, safer, firearms under its provisions. This also includes the hearing protection act.

    We will probably never win either of those fights, but it will keep those who would further erode our rights busy defending the infringements that exist. This allows them to show victory to their supporters, while not actually making the situation worse for gun owners.

    1. avatar GS650G says:

      As soon as a loon uses one in a mass shooting they are banned. Watch that happen next.

      1. avatar Binder says:

        The brace will not help so I doubt it. But if someone using it to get into a location where CCW is restricted to pistols, then you may see something.

  13. avatar PTM says:

    No surprises here. We all knew it was a lie to begin with. Calling them “pistols” and putting “braces” on them.

    I am surprised this nonsense was not shut down much sooner.

    1. avatar TheBSonTTAG says:

      For someone who swore years ago that they were never returning to TTAG you certainly seem to post a lot.

      Go troll elsewhere nothing you say can be trusted.

      1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

        Clarification –

        He was told to leave, and never come back. And he wasn’t missed.

        Either way, don’t go away mad, Paul, just go away…

  14. avatar Phantom30 says:

    Matt Gaetz is my congressman. He is a good guy. Joe Scarborough was also the congressman from that district. Joe went native in DC and then turned to the dark side. Point is it is hard enough to retain a good rep. Never vote for a Democrat no matter how bad your GOP representative is. A Dem will talk but it is what they do that counts. If you have a GOP rep who is weak on Constitutional rights keep sending him or her letters of encouragement to preserve the republic. “Constituents Matter”. Remember they all work for “We The People”. And those agency guys had better be reminded of their oath of office. And those who don’t live up to their oath should have significant penalties and a DOJ that is willing to enforce them. Drain the Swamp.

    PS I have a full family with AR pistols and none of us need or uses a pistol brace, and we all shoot the crap out of 6″ steel plates at 200 yards. Adapt and overcome.

    1. avatar Peter says:

      Ditto. Republicans may not be the answer to all of your problems, but the Democrats sure the hell are the cause of them. And Gaetz is a great Rep.

      1. avatar JR Pollock says:

        I hope he primaries Little Marco in 2022!

  15. avatar Sam I Am says:

    Once worked for a federal agency that created policy by training slide. Not everyone was re-trained to the new policy. Not only was there confusion for the public being controlled, there was similar confusion in the staff conducting the control. It was perilous to your career to not know the latest policy directives published in training sessions.

    1. avatar LifeSavor says:

      Sam I AM,

      You describe so many levels of Agency incompetence in those three sentences. If that Agency were a business, it would have been bankrupt and in receivership.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “You describe so many levels of Agency incompetence in those three sentences. ”

        Not to mention a multiple masters degree-holding, combat veteran was turned down for a weekend job with TSA at a major international airport; insufficient applicant qualifications.

        1. avatar strych9 says:

          That’s the go to/catch-all excuse. Years back I applied for a job with the USDA, I was over qualified and the job was exactly in my wheelhouse.

          They sent me a bullet point email on all the qualifications I didn’t have. Initially I thought that I must have accidentally applied for the wrong job or something.

          Nope. They just decided that 2>4/5 repeatedly.

  16. avatar GS650G says:

    how about the ATF restrict fires being set in stores? We just make it a little more illegal we’ll solve that problem first.

    1. avatar LifeSavor says:

      GS650G,

      I am guessing they could only regulate fires set with alcohol or explosives or fires started with tobacco. They would not have jurisdiction over fires started with, say wood, cooking oil, or dried cow dung. We’ll need other Federal Agencies to close such gaps. This could be a regulatory bonaza!

      Just in case: /sarc/

  17. avatar Montana Actual says:

    I honestly could care less. I have not built a “legal” AR in years. At the gatherings, I do not carry a “legal” AR.

    I stopped asking permission years ago. I’ll put whatever stock I want on it, with whatever length barrel and everything in between, and I damn sure won’t register them. Ever. If it comes down to it, I’ll build fucking cannons out of culvert size tubing and poor welds.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      And if I am on your jury, you will not be convicted.

  18. avatar Bruce says:

    The agency that I worked most closely with, the USPTO, regularly tries to enforce its internal rules and the like on the public, and many of us just as regularly pushed back. The standard is that they can’t enforce regulations against the public unless they have been formally adopted under the Administrative Procedures Act (APA), that requires Notice in the Federal Register, and consideration of all comments supplied in response to the Notice. Moreover, if forms are required, they must bear a valid Paperwork Reduction Act authorization. We routinely saw the agency try to utilize their internal, non APA approved, rules against our clients, and the better patent attorneys always pushed back, appealing decisions based on such non regulations.

    Moreover secret regulations cannot legally be enforced against citizens and legally resident aliens due to the 5th (and 14th for states) Amendments’ Due Process requirements.

  19. avatar Alan says:

    Our Elected Things have the power to curb the antics of the ATF. Given sufficient pressure, they might too.

  20. avatar Lance Manion says:

    Did I miss it? What is the “one” arm brace model they want to restrict? SBA4? SBA3? FS1913? What?

  21. avatar Leighton Cavendish says:

    can binary triggers be far behind?

    1. avatar Peter says:

      Shhh.. Don’t start talking about them here.

    2. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

      “…can binary triggers be far behind?”

      Thanks to Margery-Stonman-Whatever murder-boy, banned in Florida.

      So much for the “The Gunshine State”…

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        I have long found it odd how the states held up as the pinnacle of gun rights are anything but.

        Many of the states that get little attention often have better gun laws. Heck even some of the states that have anti-gun laws have, on balance, a better respect for the 2A.

        I’ve wondered why this is but I’ve never seen any data on it.

        1. avatar Phantom30 says:

          OK troops time for a geography lesson. State gun laws are passed by State Legislatures. Federal Congressman Gaetz is from the panhandle, the central times zone part of Florida, every state rep in CDT area votes for the 2nd Amendment, a few down state RINOs and those wonderful Dems in Miami-Dade, Tampa area, and that most famous hanging chad Broward County pass that garbage. I can’t vote them out because I don’t live in those places. It just points out we need to endorse every constitutional candidate across our states.

        2. avatar strych9 says:

          Apparently the point was missed here.

          For example, the Texas laws that were amended in 2015 to allow the open carry of a handgun, provided the person has a LTC in Texas, go back to at least 1973. They were passed under a Democrat but multiple Republicans failed to repeal or modify said law for 42 years.

          Yet during that time Texas has been hyped as “the wild West” in terms of gun laws and there’s no shortage of actual Texans who have trumpeted how “great” their “firearms freedom” has been during the specified time period.

          There’s also no shortage of Texans, or 2A folks in general, who have shit all over New Mexico about this exact topic while pointing to Texas as the paragon of “good gun laws”. Yet for the entire time mentioned New Mexico has had unlicensed OC. They’ve also allowed vehicle carry, concealed or unconcealed without a license (unlike Texas) because the State considers your vehicle to be a mobile extension of your property. In fact, New Mexico continues to demonstrably allow far more “firearms freedom” than Texas does.

          A similar argument could be made for Colorado. Legal OC, legal vehicle transport, no licenses required except for CC. Mag bans on paper sure, but they’re not enforced. From my point of view owning well North of 50 firearms of all shapes, sizes and “types” Colorado and New Mexico are both leaps and bounds ahead of Texas in terms of “carry law”. AR’s, AKs, whatever, don’t matter. Just hands-down BETTER if you like freedom.

          With Florida, last I was there I thought about contributing to the local economy with a gun purchase until I found out about their waiting period to actually take possession. NM and Colorado don’t have that either.

          So the question becomes not how a geography plays within a State or the City/Rural divide. That’s grade-school shit. It becomes why people, across the board have this notion that Texas (or Florida) are fantastic when it comes to gun rights when… they’re not. Meanwhile states with a “bad reputation” for firearms freedom are actually obviously and significantly ahead of the very states that are supposedly at the forefront. That’s very strange and it’s not a mistake that’s isolated to non-gun people. Loads of POTG believe this stuff too.

        3. avatar Montana Actual says:

          I never understood this either. When I lived in VA, the thought process was open carry is legal, state must be a good gun state. But it’s a shall issue state, same with Florida. Even more so is that Florida does not allow open carry. Correct me if I am wrong, but was that the intention of your post? I have heard a lot of people ranting on here about Florida being in favor of the gun community, and clearly, it is not. Hell, even Montana is a shall issue state, and the current Governor who is praised by republican voters is the one who vetoed HB 298 in 2015, which would have amended concealed weapons regulations essentially making Montana constitutional carry. That said, huge difference between a state like Florida and a state like Virginia. Even more of a difference between Virginia and Montana, even if they both are shall issue for concealed carry.

      2. avatar Dco777 says:

        Everytown had a hysteria/moral panic campaign ready for the next shooting. You were the recipients of it.
        Hogg Boy and “Emma” were placeholders in some preprepped propaganda blitz. In the Internet Age hysteria is short lived. People star talking facts and sense, and the “Moral Panic” losses steam really fast.

        So they have to strike while the iron is hot. Do you really think CBS news just happened to have cameras on the kids supposedly organizing this? That the buses to Tallahassee were hired on such short notice “spontaneously” ?

        That mini-documentry about the kids and those buses were a premade plan. To use hysteria (“Oh the children, THE CHILDREN!) to force through gun laws fast.

        Those Florida laws passed in under a month. They’d never pass now. They know that. It was an old tactic, just updated for the Internet age.

        In 1987 – 1988 Pete Shields, a founder of Handgun Control Inc (Which became the many names Brady Groups over the years.) talked about what they were going to do.

        The U.K. passed the ban of all semiautomatic rifles and shotguns in 1986, and he told they were going to use the ignorance of the general public to the difference between machine guns and semiautomatics to get EVERYTHING banned.

        Very proud of it. This was when three networks controlled everything (Fox News was founded 1996) and they could keep hysteria/moral panic going with no viewpoints but NBC, CBS, and ABC broadcast ones.

        It eventually culminated in the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, that was preceded by the 1989 Import Ban. They had it all ready, and when Patrick Purdy attacked the Stockton Schoolyard with an AK type rifle they sprang the hysteria campaign.

        it worked. they know now that a 5 year campaign for a gun law won’t work, and in Congress/Senate no way anything passes fast enough for the hysteria/moral panic to carry it to passing. You will notice they have bills on the books waiting to die in committees in case they get a shocking enough event to drive one home.

        That is why they are so made that Sandy Hook got them nothing in the end at the Federal level. they didn’t have a hysteria campaign ready to go, and by the time they did get something together, all the shock had worn off.

        You must remember EVERY gun law passed here since the 1968 one is patterned after an English gun control law. They keep trying to pass them here to be “U.K. Equivalent” as close as they can get.

        in 1968 they banned all machine guns. It took till 1986 to sneak a ban through here (922(o) ban). They banned “Assault Weapons” in 1986, we did in 1994, but they never thought the Sunset would happen, it would get another 10 years, or be permanent.

        Just remember they has ALL handguns outlawed and confiscated in 1996 in the U.K. so guess what’s on their list after the get Assault Weapons banned permanently? Handguns.

        I know that you think Florida is horrible for what happened very soon after Parkland but that propaganda Blitz was well made and effective. If somehow those laws had of been delayed, I bet nothing would of passed.

        Using a Hysteria/Moral Panic Campaign still works, especially if you endanger children, or make it look like children are in danger. Parkland was perfect for them, they got that group of kids to read their lines very effectively and bused them to Tallahassee to intimidate state legislators into voting for the laws.

        The hysterical cries of “For The Children!” still echoed through the state capital halls as hey voted. Chock a big one up for “Everytown” and the state getting filled up with Democrat refugees from other states fleeing the economic messes the liberal hellhole they came from were. Unwittingly creating one there.

        1. avatar Montana Actual says:

          Do you know why we cannot buy window blinds with cords anymore?

          “For the children”

          I hate cordless blinds…

  22. avatar Will says:

    Here’s a simple fix. Abolish the damned BATF and repeal all gun laws as unconstitutional.
    The BATF can be abolished immediately, and with them gone, federal gun laws will quickly become unenforceable.

  23. avatar Chadwick says:

    Who cares what the atf does? If they question you just make sure you tell them you’re with antifa or blm and you’re on their side. They seem not to care about the arson and what not when it comes to rabid lefties so they should let you go free with a high five and a “good game” butt slap.

  24. avatar Docduracoat says:

    I have been saying on this blog, and other gun blogs that President Trump’s precedent of banning bump stops by executive fiat was awful.
    Pistol braces and binary trigger‘s will be banned in the same way.
    If not under President trumps ATF, then eventually there will be a Democrat president will do the exact same thing.

    Mark my words, pistol braces and vinery triggers will be next to go.

    1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

      Binary triggers *gone* in Florida…

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “Binary triggers *gone* in Florida…”

        Yeah?

        Well, what about the non-binary triggers, and the trans triggers? Don’t they have civil rights, too?

  25. avatar Northern_Michigan says:

    STAHP.

    This guy is just some a hole politician making a press release. Two weeks from now he’ll make another release saying he fixed it. Meanwhile the ATF is like “WTF is this guy taking about?”. How does he severely know about it? Stop giving him the free publicity.

    1. avatar Phantom30 says:

      OK spartan. So you are a fool as well, you don’t know the guy but your mouth runs free.

  26. avatar B. Zerker says:

    Someone that gets busted for any of the ATF’s unconstitutional “rules” should hit the head of the organization with a criminal charge under Title 18, USC, Sec. 242 and then civil lawsuit under Title 42, USC, Sec. 198 (Look ’em both up). Article I, Section 1, of the U.S. Constitution unequivocally dictates that: “All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.” This means that congress is the ONLY governmental body that can lawfully propose laws (rules for society to live by). The ATF, is a bureaucracy of the executive branch, has no publicly elected hierarchy, and therefore has no lawful ability to enact laws, rules, etc. Any “rule” that it enforces on the public, that has not been debated and passed by both houses of the legislative branch and then enacted (signed into law) by the executive branch (the President) is colorable (false, fiat, counterfeit), and is therefore unconstitutional and null and void.

    1. avatar Montana Actual says:

      Huh… learn something new everyday. I had no idea fiat could be used that way. I always thought it was a shitty car manufacturer 😉

      Seriously tho, abolish the ATF. And they can’t read, so anything you say online is G2G.

  27. avatar TP says:

    This is not good. 16″ & 18″ min. needs to be dropped.

  28. avatar The Olympic Snorch says:

    More 4D chess! Thrump has those libtards right where he wants them now. We just quietly sacrifice wrist braces like we did bumpstocks – they’re not guns so the 2A doesn’t apply to them any more than it does to magazines. Then in a couple of decades the supreme court will strike down all gun laws. Checkmate democraps.

    1. avatar Montana Actual says:

      lol wut?

      Whole lotta dumb going on here.

      We will sacrifice nothing. You zip it up.

      1. avatar The Olympic Snorch says:

        Would you rather Hillary ?!1?¡! What are Soros and Bloomberg paying you?

        1. avatar Montana Actual says:

          So naive… Where did you even come from?

  29. avatar Hannibal says:

    The cuter that manufacturers are about making them the more likely they will go the way of the bump stock.

    It’s been getting more and more obvious that no one actually uses them as a one-armed brace. Many of them are ridiculously unwieldly to use as anything but a shoulder-stock. Not to mention all the videos from consumers showing them being used as shoulder stocks.

    This is an own-goal.

    1. avatar Montana Actual says:

      I’d like to thank my audience for viewing today, and if you check under your seat you will find a little gift.
      3D printers for everyone! You get a 3D printer. You get a 3D printer. You get a 3D printer!

      AR’s are evolving. Bufferless is the future. Piston operation is cleaner, and side charging is pretty awesome too. Hell, I’d use a piece of wood for a stock if I really had to 😉 Carve it up. Function over form. Duct Tape where and when needed.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “Hell, I’d use a piece of wood for a stock if I really had to 😉 Carve it up. Function over form. Duct Tape where and when needed.”

        As a good little ATF agent, I would say that the combination of wood, duct tape and an AR pistol on the same legal plot of real estate puts you in constructive possession of an SBR. Heck, I would even say that being within simple driving distance of a lumber yard and any retail outlet selling duct tape, along with your AR pistol is constructive possession. I might, being a good little government agent, go so far as to declare that writing about wood, duct tape and an AR pistol is constructive possession; let the court sort it out.

        1. avatar Montana Actual says:

          I better get another dog.

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “I better get another dog.”

          Jes’ tryin’ to be helpful.

  30. avatar Montana Actual says:

    Just out of curiosity, is that pistol brace in the pic the Black Collar one? Has anyone used a Sig MCX/MPX for an AR? Comparisons? I don’t care about the strap, just the construction.

  31. avatar Salty Bear says:

    “I would abolish thr ATF whose sole purpose is to enforce unconstitutional laws.” – Jo Jorgensen, 2020 presidential candidate

    1. avatar Montana Actual says:

      Fuck that.

      “She argued that immigration helps the economy and that the blending of cultures was beneficial.”

      2020 proves otherwise.

  32. avatar BusyBeef says:

    Jo Jorgenson is running for president.
    One of her positions is abolish the ATF.
    Vote for MojoJoJo

  33. avatar Geoff says:

    Just like they ILLEGALLY banned bump stocks. Only CONGRESS can make a law banning bump stocks and arm braces and it would violate the 2nd. Amendment.

    Rule #1. Government can pass any Law they want, even an unconstitutional law.
    Rule #2. It will be the Law until the Courts overturn it from a lawsuit.

  34. avatar VinnieA says:

    Bottom line. With Police Forces being defunded and scum like ANTIFA, BLM, The Democrat Party and other Terrorist Organizations committing Murder and Mayhem we need MORE GUNS including fully automatic, long and short barrel Rifles, pistols with silencers etc, etc, etc!

    The War Has started and We the People need to be able to DEFEND OURSELVES!

  35. avatar Top Hall says:

    Perhaps SB Tactical needs to stop poking the bear? If you keep asking if this is a thing, at some point it will become a thing.

  36. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    The BATFE should be renamed. Call it the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Marijuana Firearms and explosives. BATMFE.
    Since the legalization crowd made the argument, back in the 1970s, that pot should be made legal AND TAXED. Just tobacco. They said it would be a great way for the government to raise revenue.

    I think the BATFE should be completely abolished.

  37. avatar Tony Reaux says:

    I wish I had access to suppressors when I started in gun smithing, 22 yrs in the Army, I would have my hearing now!!!!

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