Reader Jerry Spiegler writes…
Dear Mr. Farago,
I read your essay in USA Today and found much with which I can agree.
By way of disclosure I confess ignorance about guns, except they are rather expensive when I visit the local Cabella’s superstore. However, I am vitally interested in the truth.
Today I am 66 years old. The last time I fired a 22 caliber rifle was some 50 years ago. I missed the cardboard target and the wall of the abandoned rural barn to which it was nailed. So yes, I am that person who couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn.
Knowing this has given me a respect for firearms and has also kept me away from them. I have no grudge against hunters, collectors, or shooting sports enthusiasts. West Virginians view hunting as both a family tradition and a humane way of sharing nature with deer, beer, and small game that reduces suffering for all.
I strongly agree with your premise that no law or proposed law would have prevented Mr. Paddock from shooting 586 people and killing 59 of them according to the latest reports.
But that is not my purpose for writing today. Ultimately there are two points I respectfully offer. My first point is that random acts of horror that convey some aspect of forethought elicit a strong emotional response to “do something” rather than feel helpless and inconsequential; perhaps even vulnerable.
You are absolutely right that no law stops the individual from carrying out a murderous plan. But that is not my point.
What can be done is to reduce the number of killed and injured; a form of harm reduction. No law can be perfect because none of us are perfect. But we can manage risks and reduce harms.
My own preference would be to ban the add-ons that make large numbers of shells and continuous firing possible. Motivated individuals will always look for and discover workarounds. But impediments, while inconvenient to law abiding citizens, might reduce deaths.
My second point is that the solutions you suggested ask more of some people than they are reasonably able to give. You wrote,
We have to end the revolving-door justice system that returns dangerous criminals to the streets. We have to improve economic and educational opportunities for inner city youth. We have to find new ways to provide mental health care to teenagers, veterans and others contemplating suicide. We have to strengthen the bonds that tie us to each other, so we can help keep each other safe. We have to realize that we are our own first responders, and work to identify threats before they’re realized.
Yes, we want parents to stay off drugs, to raise their children to respect laws and social norms of behavior, to themselves be law-abiding role models and contributing members of the community whose children aspire to similar attainments. Sadly, seemingly reasonable expectations are not consistent with the manner in which some portion of our fellow citizens live their daily lives.
Again, the law cannot force people to “be good or do the right thing.” It can only punish them when they break the law and are caught. Challenging them to step up their game, as you have done, is aspirational at best.
Your suggestions quoted above would not have deterred Mr. Paddock in any way. We will never know his true motivation and will be unable to prevent others from repeating similar horrific misdeeds.
All that can reasonably be done is to identify high risk individuals such as convicted felons, violent individuals with a history of mental illness, and individuals with a stated intent to harm themselves or others and aggressively enforce the existing laws that make it hard for them to legally obtain weapons.
I understand these laws don’t work. But I also believe that we cannot punish our way out of these problems. We can only be vigilant and hopeful.
Thank you,
Jerry Spiegler
this is going to cost the NRA big.
If you can just walk peaceably into the shower, you can get into a nice warm oven in about 15 minutes.
Again, the law cannot force people to “be good or do the right thing.”
What a ignorant statement. Laws cant “force” people, unless you consider that the threat of punishment and expectations can change behavior, case in point, seat belts.
When the next civil war starts, I’m going to waste a little extra time trying to find you.
“We can’t punish our way out of problems, so let’s punish all the people who haven’t actually done anything wrong.”
Here’s your sign.
Today the N.R.A, announced that Bum\b Stocks should be Banned! How do the members like this apple. All the time the N.R.A. stated that they would fight for there members. I guess they forgot there promise.
The fact that my 686-4 pre-lock 4″ .357 goes up in value every year speaks for itself. I don’t see anyone selling them. It’s a gem.
they wont ban obamacare…
but theyll ban bump fire stocks…
reason #1896 why theyre called the stupid party
but for now i guess theyre better than the dangerous party
eventually theyll be stupid enough that theyll be as dangerous
who do we vote for then
see: quandary
Great, Robert wrote a piece that appealed to the liberal retards. Mission accomplished.
“My own preference would be to ban the add-ons that make large numbers of shells and continuous firing possible. Motivated individuals will always look for and discover workarounds. But impediments, while inconvenient to law abiding citizens, might reduce deaths.”
This right here is what I’d call fudd-ese for a ban on standard capacity magazines.
How very generous of him to be willing to compromise our rights.
And another thing for you fudds. Spare us the lip service. You’re no friend of ours so stop saying your a hunter, and hat you support the 2nd amendment. You don’t.
First and foremost this is a terrible tragedy and my heart goes out to all those affected. This event is the worst of of a series of sprees that started with columbine. Perhaps I’m ignorant but I do not recall serious mass shootings before then. We could debate for days this new phenomenon and the psychology of why these are more common now a days as well as the resurgence of radical Islam but that is a beast on its own. As stated in previous comments, we cannot legislate ourselves out of these events. If a crazy person wants to murder people they will find a way.
That being said and I’m going to take devils advocate here. By reducing the methods available I.e the bump fire stock, we would see less casualties as the rate of fire would have drastically decreased. The point being we would drive terrorists to more illegal means of creating mass casualty events thereby having them take on more and more risk to achieve the same results (I.e buy a full auto ak on the black market: Mexican cartels) and hopefully get caught or killed in the process. Also limit the damage if the said terrorist proceeds as planned. Essentially, where do we draw the line in Gaining or limiting our freedoms as citizens in this great republic? And for what purposes will we do it? What is the desired endstate? And is that endstate possible?
I believe we cannot stop the crazies from killing. But we might be able to reduce their killing power and force them into doing other less effective things. As long as it doesn’t infringe on our inherent freedoms that limit the power of the government then it should be good.
that being said these evil pieces of shit are going to ruin the fun for everyone.
Also if it’s radical islam, at least we know that cause, if it’s another psychological unknown, we need to have a serious discussion as a nation on the psychological reasons behind this stuff as it doesn’t seem to be slowing down. Maybe it’s a deranged psycho’s 10 min of fame? 24 hour news network and internet age.
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Or, the Democrats could be shooting themselves in the foot. The right is willing to give them the bump stock ban. But the Donks demand much more. So the whole deal collapses.
This is the same sequence of events that happened after Sandy Hook. Coburn was willing to give on background checks. Schumer demanded comprehensive registration too. The deal collapsed.
But Democrats may consider this a win. They will lose the legislation but retain the campaign/ talking point issue.
This is absolute BS. Anders Breivek killed more people and used a Mini-14.
Expect all bumpfire devices and similar items (binary triggers) to be banned. Expect the left to go STRONG on another “assault rifle” ban. Expect them to try to create limits on how many guns can be purchased. Expect them to try to create limits on how much ammo you can buy. We are probably going to take it in the shorts BIG TIME. I suggest everyone start writing/calling their congressmen now. The Las Vegas incident was the PERFECT thing they’ve been waiting for to justify banning everything possible.
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And while we’re at it: the number of jammed rifles affixed with bump-fire stocks also highlights the inefficacy of using bump-fire stocks to emulate sustained, full-auto fire through a semi-automatic rifle.
Back on your original topic: I would like to know, of the 500 injured, how many were injured by gun shot wounds, and how many were injured through other means (such as being trampled by a stampede).
I purchased a 686 in 357 Mag for my wife. She loves the gun.
To make that number reflect even more misses, remember the “injured” number includes those who aren’t injured by gunfire (most commonly, and confirmed to be included in the numbers given now, it includes the crowd shoving eachother in the panic). Thousands of rounds fired, and he killed less than 60.
I guess that includes Digi Trigger and who knows where this legislation goes. Does it include triggers like Gissle or any other trigger that allows for smoother and potentially faster rates of fire. These legislators did not even know that Bumpstocks have been on the market for a number of years and how many have been involved in a murder….this one as far as I know. This is just the beginning and so goes Reciprocity and HPA. Gone and we have another administration who will cave to liberal publicity. Already sent a message to the NRA to let them know I’ll drop my membership based on their caving on this issue.
People are, IMHO, attributing too much stupidity to this guy.
Fuels like this are not flammable until mixed with air with the fuel as a mist or vapor. Punching holes in the tank wouldn’t cause an explosion unless the tank was mostly empty and you put something like a tracer into the top (vapor filled) portion of the tank.
However, as anyone who has ever played with inflammable liquids knows, once you pour a bunch of that shit on the ground you end up with a vapor cloud that sits on top of the liquid. So… Spill a bunch and then hit the spill with a tracer and you have a big fire very, very fast and burning next to a tank full of fuel…
Just sayin’.
I’m thinking it should be Valium that is banned instead.
https://news.google.com/news/search/section/q/valium/valium?hl=en&ned=us
Know your place, goyim. G-d created you to be our slaves. Set one toe out of line, and we’ll kill you and get away with it like the swine on the USS Liberty.
How about this. The media should do a full report on the lawful lives lost by existing overreaching unconstitutional laws already on the books.
Like firearm waiting periods so long that the women waiting have died from a violent spouse, ex, or boyfriend. I guess their lives don’t matter.
Or all the lawful gunowners that were injured or killed while disarmed in gun free zones.
These laws cost innocent lives while claiming to save innocent lives.
Time to expose the truth.
It’s not that hard to carry up several firearms, and ammunition at one time in luggage especially if you’re using a cart.
Maybe they know something they’re not telling us?
Wow, there is a LOT of hatred for the NRA on here. You know who constantly attacks the NRA? The Democrat gun grabbers, that’s who. No way that some Democrat gun grabbers could come on here and pretend to be 2A supporters, is there? Oh, of course not, just a bunch of serious 2A absolutists, right? And before you call me a “Fudd” or some other such bullshit, I hate gun control because I know it does NOTHING to stop criminals in the least. I hate Bloomberg, Feinstein, Schumer, Michael Moore, the “Moms for Socialism”, the whole damned lot of them. But I also know how much of a thorn the NRA is in the side of those scumbags, so pardon me if I’m not ready to give up on the NRA just yet, simply because some anonymous posters say so. The bumpfire stock didn’t kill anyone, a nutjob did the killing.
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Watch Hickok45 shoot this pistol and the truth about this one is that you got it all wrong.
even if bump fire stocks were already NFA items, it wouldnt have mattered in THIS situation. As we see he had more than enough financial means to acquire it and pay the tax stamp fees. the only reason he didn’t use a suppressor is because it would reduce is range too much, which would force him to get closer and more easily detectable. it just goes to show the level of detail he planned out.
ATF can in fact reverse or modify its previous administrative ruling that a bumpfire stock does not fall within the legal definition of a machine gun.
This is why and how – from a previous and recent post: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/robert-farago/breaking-nra-veep-wayne-lapierre-didnt-say-ban-bump-fire-stocks/#comments
“There IS actually a difference between a semi auto equipped with a bump fire stock, and a semi auto without one.
A bump fire stock does not *simulate* full auto fire, it is in fact a device which (even if poorly and inefficiently) enables mechanical automatic fire.
A properly equipped full auto mechanism (usually) has three components. A reciprocating bolt, an auto sear which while the trigger is depressed will take over the function of actuating the trigger each time the bolt reciprocates, and (usually) a mechanism which disengages the auto fire system, returning the firearm to single pull semi auto operation.
Mechanically, a ‘bump stock’ is a mechanism which allows the entire receiver to reciprocate, and relies upon the operator’s stationary finger as the auto sear. The feature which allows the gun to return to semi auto operation, rather than being a receiver mounted selector, is a stock mounted selector which for semi auto operation locks the stock into a traditional stationary position.
One can argue the semantics endlessly, but in effect the bump fire stock could easily be reclassified as a machine gun (and probably will) with a simple administrative ruling from ATF.”
Is this guy from IMI Systems? The Israeli company? The people I occasionally buy ammo from? WTF!
Biometric blunderbusses for all!