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“You know, they make fun of my saying about use a shotgun if someone’s invading your home. Guess what — use a shotgun [on] someone invading your home — you don’t kill your kids. Use an AR-15, it goes through your wall and it can kill your kid in the bedroom.” – Vice President Joe Biden [via]

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  1. Depending on the gauge, it doesn’t so much go “through” a wall as ploughing the wall ahead of the blast, yielding gypsum grapeshot.

    What a doofus.

  2. Neat video but I still say bird shot is for birds.

    As to Shotgun Joe, meh dumb people say dumb things.

    • +1

      Anything that’s effective for self defense will go through a wall if you miss, it’s best to just hit your target and know what’s behind it if you miss.

    • Penetration is pentration regardless of target material. Anything with the inertia to go through 12″ of gel will go through wall board.

      That said… im sure a couple of rounds of 12 gauge No. 8 will repell a home invader. Might not put him down for the count but I doubt he will be inclined to stick around (especially if you aim for the face).

  3. Someone should introduce a bill in the Senate banning Biden from offering any more firearms related advice.

    • Actually, that would be hilarious if someone did! And in the legislation, explain all of the stupid nonsense he spouts as truth and facts!

  4. Joe, Joe, Joe…. You’re making this too easy for us Joe. At least give yourself a sporting chance…

    • Could it be that deep down Joe is pro second amendment but must maintain an anti-second amendment appearance so as not to piss off any of his party members? So every time he has something to say about gun rights, he purposely tries to sound as dumb as possible to make it an easy win for the pro-gun crowd. Is Joe Biden our secret weapon???

      (/tin foil sargasm)

  5. i love seeing stuff get powdered in the morning.

    I still say bird shot is for little birds. Sure it will go through wallboard, but i think that the penetration in gelatin/flash is only a few inches.

    • Yeah but a few loads of birdshot will stun ’em long enough to finish ’em off with the bayonet on your 590, right?

      /JK (sorta)

  6. The (over) emphasis that surrounds over penetration is in my summation mostly hype. How many times do you hear of someone getting shot after a projectile passes through a barrier? How many times does someone get shot ater the projectile passes through someone else? Guns distribute loads of kinetic engery which is what makes them so effective.

    To The Guy 09,

    The word in DE is that Biden is a closet gun nut. He supposedly has many guns and has them stashed strategically around the house. Before becoming VP (again supposedly) he hired private security for himself and his wife in order to augment what he got as a senator. The take-away to this is Joe’s anti-gun BS is delivered in exacly the same manner as the rest of his BS. But yeah not too far-fetched.

  7. The brainlessness of this country’s VP is mind boggling “Guess what — use a shotgun [on] someone invading your home — you don’t kill your kids. Use an AR-15, it goes through your wall and it can kill your kid in the bedroom.” – Vice President Joe Biden. This after telling the nation to shoot a shotgun through the door. Oye, pendejo, if it goes through the WOODEN door, why would it not go through the GYPSUM wall?

    • At least W came off as an “Aw shucks” bumpkin whenever he said something kinda retarded, Biden just makes himself look like a complete fool.

    • “shawn says:

      April 13, 2013 at 09:33

      You know I thought Bush and Cheney would go down as the worse ever. I stand corrected.”

      I say this to my wife weekly. Oh the hate we had for Bush… but now it seems like nostalgia.

    • What! You can’t get behind the Jack Kevorkian school of self defense? Right next to the Larry Storch acting school I might add. Remember, you don’t need a gun, just let the criminal shoot you…. & everybody thought their plan wasn’t any good, Randy

  8. Politically: Bidens comments are simply what one gets from someone who; A. Doesn’t know what they’re talking about and. . . B. Is attempting to mislead you. Remember that it’s a legitimate principle to the left that repeating a lie often enough makes it true.

    Practically: Saying a shotgun does or doesn’t do anything is difficult, since it’s performance, more so than other firearms, is so dependent on ammunition and choke configuration. Practically speaking a high velocity sabot slug from a 12 gauge provides massive over penetration for indoor/home defensive use.

    Birdshot isn’t legitimately a defensive load at all, but here again shot/load choice and barrel/choke configuration matters. A .410 pistol with a 1.5 inch barrel loading standard 7shot is indeed a pathetic penetrator, and short of contact range isn’t reliably lethal. On the other hand, a 3 inch Magnum 12 gauge load of the same shot from a 28 inch barrel full choke tends to perform like a frangible slug in gelatin/flesh at typical in house ranges, impacting before leaving the shot cup and beginning expansion only upon contact. While penetration is still sub-optimal, this is one case were mere wounding potential can be a fight stopper. The sort of wounds left by such rounds so fired are often described as ‘rat-holes’ due to their size and ragged edges. The impact is still 1-1.5 oz at the stated velocity meaning that hydrostatic shock is still massive regardless of the fact that the shot string is dividing into progressively more and smaller projectiles along the length of penetration. On bare gelatin at close ranges (10 feet and less) the damage from such a round is . . .horrific. The real reason for the general (and generally true statement) that birdshot is inadequate for defensive use is that it’s effects are easily interrupted by intervening material;heavy clothing, wall board, glass anything that can cause the shot to begin separation from the cup severely limits both penetration and shock. Further, simply moving the range back has the same effect while including rapidly decreasing velocity to the degradation of performance. Thus while bird shot is only recommended when the individual pellets are capable of the desired effect on target, it’s effects at close range on lightly clothed flesh, or even through a wall at point blank ranges is still likely to produce lethal wounds.

    Disregarding all of that, the chaotic and often astounding spread of birdshot when it contacts any material while still in the shot cup means that while it will still penetrate most household walls, you now have an unpredictable cloud of shot. I don’t personally consider having hit a friendly with ‘only a few pellets of relatively low velocity birdshot’ acceptable. The bottom line is don’t shoot at what you cannot hit, and even then know your backstop and what is beyond should the stop fail.
    How many here train for keeping very low and firing at high angles ‘up’ into a target? In many situations this can allow for over penetrating or missed shots to continue up at such an angle that no one on the same floor could be hit even if directly behind the target.

    In any even, home intrusions, gunfights and other similar events are inherently dangerous and chaotic. Use best practices, use best equipment, use your judgment, and hope for the best.

    • Remember that it’s a legitimate principle to the left in politics that repeating a lie often enough makes it true.

      Fixed it for ya

      • Sure, but if a rightie does it, he will likely get corrected by the media. Not so for a leftie. Biden is perfect example of this.

  9. The sad thing is that when some lefty gets religion after a home invasion all he will. Remember is Joe’s advice.

  10. That was probably James Holmes intention when he used the Remington 870 shotgun in the Aurora shooting – he didn’t want to hurt anyone in the adjacent theaters.

  11. As a man who doesn’t own a AR and uses a shotgun in his house defense plans I’d like to take this moment to disavow any connection to or following of advice from slow joe, the special ed veep.

    He makes us legit shotgun owners look bad.

    • he really does….
      so much that i cant help but facepalm in shame. i got a supernova tactical waiting for a late night visitor, and i could swear i heard crying coming from its general direction.

  12. Sometimes I feel like it is just me and my gun shop guy that know what frangible shells are. Tested and proven. Will not go through drywall. Dumps ALL its energy into the target. Will obliterate any flesh it hits. Costs more than regular shells, yes but what are you willing to pay to not hit an innocent?

    I have a couple boxes but also live in a brick and cedar home so I have little issue with hitting anyone outside unless I paint a window.

  13. Crazy Joe is right — shotguns do not penetrate walls unless they’re thrown really hard and strike the wall between the studs.

    And a shotgun will not kill your kids — the bad guys will do that for you.

  14. Why do people make walls out of drywall? Seriously, I have only heard about walls out of drywall in the US. The rest if the world doesnt use it for a rason.

    • We use drywall because it’s much less labor intensive than plaster. Unless you live in Baltimore or Chicago, most people aren’t concerned with their houses being bulletproof.

      That said, stay away from the Chinese drywall.

    • Mostly because it is cost effective and much easier to build, tear down, rebuild and replace. While I do love the look of brick or stone homes the fact is that if the foundation starts to sag you are F&*ked out of a house. Who has time for that?

      I guess the reasoning is that houses here are so cheap and because people can up and move at a moments notice. Many in the U.S. do that and don’t build a house to live in for a lifetime.

      The rest of the ‘Western’ world does use it… we use it because we can and we have the environment to be able to use it effectively.

      • Makes sense, sort off but I live in a house that was built to last a lifetime( in Bosnia) here in Norway the walls are wooden with insulation( yellow wool like stuff). I dont think it is bulletproof but it is better than drywall.

  15. Wait a minute. According to Joe a shotgun will not go through walls, so what about his advice to shoot through your door for protection? Which is it Joe you idiot? This guy is an embarrassment but I guess he perfectly reflects the common progressive voter of today.

  16. Buck shot will go right through a wall.
    Killing your kids is terribly invalid as anyone who has enough common sense to use the gun correctly knows enough to not aim at their own kids. Even if the defender is a complete idiot it would still be pretty hard to hit something you don’t want to.

  17. Little known fact…Joe’s SS detail secretly replaced all of the vice president’s 00 buck and birdshot shells with special “party popper” shells that shoot confetti and streamers. They determined Joe to be a danger to himself and others, plus the neighborhood girl scout troop had their upcoming cookie drive and they did not want Joe shooting at them through the door.

  18. Boy, I’ll tell ya, there isn’t a Dan Quayle face-palm pic to found anywhere.

    Don’t they usually have…I mean, isn’t there somebody, at the White House, whose job it is to make sure people like Biden don’t make total idiots of themselves – on the record? Not only to Americans, but to the rest of the whole damn planet, Janet? Mother Mary and Joseph, will somebody muzzle this twit? We’re the only proven lethal, nuclear capable military on the planet, and we’re advertizing to the world that the guy who’s a heartbeat from the Big Chair, is dumber than a box of wax loads. How could that possibly be a wise thing to do? I think we’re way beyond a face palm here.

  19. Maybe people have an AR15 just for collectors purposes, or target shooting, and still have a shotgun for self defense.

    Joke Biden just doesnt get the 2nd Amendment. Joke Biden should STFU already.

  20. how ’bout this Joe:

    to every grown-up who has a household and loved ones to protect, it is YOUR own responsibility to study hard what it is you need to appropriately defend your home.

    do your own homework on the type of gun, how you’ll use it, and find what your thorough research and training will allow you to do so in the most effective manner.

    it could be shotties, AR15s, .38 specials, or a ninjasword.

    don’t need to fancy suit who lives with the Secret Service (who are paid for by the public) to tell you what’s best for your little ones. sheesh


    For those not familiar with the site, boxo’truth does penetration testing. Interesting to go poke around there.

    FBI testing indicates that #4 buckshot is the minimum to achieve the penetration they deem required to be an effective round. Anything larger than that is rated consistently effective. Anything smaller isn’t. Birdshot is for stopping birds.

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