“The Windsor Police Service is adding high-powered rifles to its arsenal,” cbc.ca reports. “The C8 patrol carbine rifle is beginning to replace the 12-gauge shotgun currently being used. The rifle is more accurate and fires more bullets with less penetrating power, thus reducing the chance of someone else being hit.” Funny that Vice President Biden is promoting shotguns for armed self-defense while every police police department from Truth or Consequences to Toronto is tooling-up with AR-15s. So what of Insp. Tom Crowley of the Windsor po-po’s contention that ARs are less likely to inflict collateral damage than shotties? I know a couple of California newspaper delivery gals who might beg to differ. You?
I wonder if her health articles are as well researched as her gun ones are? If so, not worth reading.
Correct me if I’m wrong but those women were purposely being shot at by overzealous police who didn’t really bother checking who was the target. So those police could have been using pistols or shotguns and those women would’ve still be in a WOS. Of course not many people are advocating banning guns for police for some reason *shrug*. Guess double standards aren’t supposed to make sense.
Given the circumstances of that incident, I propose that the 2 women would have beed justified in defending themselves from attempted murder by the LAPD. If they were legally armed, I think it may have been perfectly reasonable to shoot back in self defense.
When anyone asks the question about mag capacity limits…..use this example……the LAPD shot 100 rounds into a car and still MISSED.
Come on, legally carrying in California? No way, no how.They’d have to be undercover law enforcement pretending to be news paper deliverers. Even then they’d likely be subject to some sort of disciplinary actions. California is the the type of place a person has to first get permission to say the word gun, much less print one, or own one. Those women aren’t just lucky to be alive, but also to not be in jail for having hundred illegal cop killing, heat seeking, armor penetrating, explosive tipped, high volume/power/capacity,super destructive assault rifle bullets of mega ultra child killing metallic death in their car despite them being put there by the police.
I think instead of the magazine cap issue, it goes along the lines of proper gun use. I mean were they not aiming at all? If they were, they must have been jerking the trigger to the point of qualifying for lewd acts in public. Now if you mean why it is important to have for us to have magazines that hold plenty of ammunition because one day we might stumble on some crazed law enforcement officer(s) who can fire 100 rounds, then hell yes. But if you’re firing 100 rounds and not hitting the target you better be doing at least 1 of 2 things. 1) Firing at a hidden sniper, 2) Putting down suppressing fire. Anything else, should slow your roll and use the sights, they are on the firearm for a reason.
I’m not an expert, this is just my opinion. An individual 5.56 round that misses it’s target will remain lethal over a greater range than a single buckshot pellet will. In a crowded urban environment such as where I live I feel more comfortable using a shotgun as my go to long gun. Plus, I live in California, so any AR platform I get here would be limited to 10 round mags and those ever fun bullet buttons.
I think that every police cruiser should have a shotgun and a rifle. What type of rifle is open for debate. Would a scout type bolt action chambered in .243 be a better patrol rifle than an AR?
Knowing your target and what’s beyond it negates this question.
Can anyone explain what’s happening here? It looks to me like a bunch of crack heads attacking some poor dogs, then some over reacting police. These people need to be in jail, what the hell is wrong with them?
As for the seven rounds thing, the notion itself is ridiculous, but the number isn’t that bad. Still wouldn’t want to deal with that though.
Im gonna have to go with the shotgun on this one. Less range, less penetration.
Speaking in terms of the general buck shot anyway.
Either one is fine. The problem comes when the person wielding the weapon doesn’t practice enough with it and doesn’t pay attention to the target and the background.
She looks like Killface. If you know who that is then we are already friends.
Anybody in the Garden State heard of a baseball bat?
I think it all depends upon the expected or likely range of engagement. So, they have a handgun for speaking ranges and need a long fun for yelling range, right? Presumably, engaging a target outside of handgun range means there is time to take up defensive positions and establish a perimeter. Hand gun for the “oh shit!” moments and a long gun for the “WTF is going on” moments.
It seems to me (from what I read and see) that modern doctrine is to contain when possible and engage at some standoff distance, which is at least a half block away, and then call for SWAT. In these situations, having a patrol rifle makes a heck of a lot more sense for accuracy and effectiveness at ranges where buckshot is merely annoying.
If the patrol officers are going to maneuver and close (old style) with a shooter, then I could see a case for a shotgun having value. But even in those situations, is there anything a shotgun can do that an AR cannot? Of course, the Marines still have shotguns for CQB, and I expect they know a thing or two about it.
If I was going to be 20 yard from someone trying to kill me, I’d want a shotgun and buckshot. Any further, I’d want a rifle. But then I am not a Marine, or a cop, just a middle-aged white guy with way more guns than my wife thinks is reasonable.
But like anything else, let engagement range and tactical doctrine rule.
First of all NJ=SLAVE STATE! It is no wonderthat NOT one of them knew what to do.
Second. My father raised pit bulls when I was a child. NEVER had a problem.
Third. It is the owner that is the problem, NOT the dog. Who do you see with pit bulls, blacks, mexicans, etc. Why(?) Cuzz hit be kool two habe a bad ass dog, jym.
Four. The majority of people that have dogs, need a serious training session. They are not capable of training a dog. They watch far to much Dog Whisperer, or the dumb English woman, with her “…walkies…” They never see the FAILURES.
Fife, Petsmart and petco are NOT the place to go for dog training.
Six. My background lends some expertise in what I am saying, as I went through K-9 school at Lackland AFB. 12 weeks of intesive training, which included basic training, patrol dog training, tracking, and search techniques. I worked with dogs in Washington DC. Army K-9 Corps.
People are quick to blame a breed, when it is the OWNER that should be blamed. I see see people get “cute” puppies, and then discover they can’t handle the dog when it gets to be far larger then they anticipated. Junk gimmicks DO NOT take the place of training.
The comments on the article are absolutely bizarre. Commenters claiming the dogs were “just playing,” criticizing police for dispatching them, and blaming of the victim. Plus, nobody can spell.
I guess I don’t know why I’m even surprised any more.
Any gun is unsafe for bystanders when the shooter lacks both training and discipline. Asking whether the shotgun or the AR is more unsafe in the hands of a poorly-trained, trigger-happy shooter is like asking whether it’s better to be mauled by a Polar Bear or a Grizzly Bear.
Perfect ending for these savage bull dogs…and to those that say pit bulls, Rots (and some others) are not in general “aggressive breeds”, you’re out of your friggen heads. I’ve been attacked by pits before – riding my bike down the street. Two sitting at opposite sides of the street across from one another…waiting for someone to come by. It was terrifying. I got away but lord only knows what would have happened had I not. There was no one around. I think Pits for one should be outlawed.
You truly believe that the dogs that attacked you were evil and vicious from the day they were born. You don’t think at all that they ended up that way from human intervention?
I almost had my face chewed off by a Dalmatian. I knew the family, the dog was neglected and never properly socialized while raised. I don’t blame the dog one bit, I blame the owners 100%.
It depends on the load. I’m 5-0, and I’m almost always reaching for the AR loaded with 64 grain Winchester Power Points and standard capacity mags. I don’t know the penetration capability of the round through ballistic gel, but it can definitely penetrate through soft body armor, auto glass, heavy clothing, etc. Our 12 gauge 9 – pellet 00 buck load spreads out pretty quickly, so I’m loath to use it in a potential confrontation outside of 25 yards. The AR offers much better aiming, long range, rapid fire, and ammunition capacity. I’ll take that 9 times out of 10.
Dick Cheney sez AR15s are safer than shotguns.
I feel somewhat amazed at your entire posting all due to the fact that you’re entire focus is on the drawing ability of the holster, which don’t get me wrong, is obviously of great importance but another matter of importance is safety. A retention holster keeps you and others safe from your gun being in the wrong hands and to anyone with practice drawing their firearm the timing of a retention holster is not an issue. Also a hardened retention holster can act as a safety feature by simply not allowing the trigger to be touched until the gun is removed and safely(hopefully) in the grip of the user. And finally with regard to keeping your finger off the trigger while drawing, the saffariland ALS holster has its lock release near the back of the slide, actuated by your thumb when gripping your gun as you naturally draw it. This would allow you to keep your trigger finger along the barrel or just under it. Also again with proper practice this is easily accomplished with either the blackhawk SERPA or the Sig Sauer brand retention holster. My main shock was your near complete disregard for speaking on the safety of the matter and only focusing on a combat situation . If you want statistics, statistically you are more likely to need the gun tucked away than to need it for a firefight. But should that need arise, if as you say police officers use retention holsters, don’t you think they’ll be good enough for civi’s too?
One can only hope someone got to his trash, and is now happily rebuilding it yet again.
About once a month? About once a month a home-built gun surfaces in crime is what he’s trying to say? Call me a skeptic…
seems sequester has more implications than previously thought. show of hands, who is surprised