Reader Thomas M. write:
I’m a 24 year old young professional and staunchly libertarian. I grew up in Brooklyn & Northern New Jersey. I come from a very strict anti-gun family and most of my friends fall into the category of “I don’t care, is the mall open yet?” My mother’s boyfriend would probably sign up in some way to help confiscate firearms if he ever got the chance. My mom is a school teacher in New Jersey and, well I won’t continue because it’s depressing me. Needless to say, the three hand guns I own are an anomaly given my geographical location and family associations. I have a serious question for you, one that I think about very often. Even more often, considering recent events after Sandy Hook Elementary . . .
What would you [the collective “you”] do if you live in New Jersey or New York or CT or Illinois and — assuming DiFi’s bill is passed — all your guns become illegal? You’ve registered them (because you obey the law) and then five years later, another fool shoots up a crowd of people and the predictable reaction is to ban all the guns. The knock at the door comes and its the state police in full body armor ready with UMP automatics and they are there to relieve you of your firearms.
What do you do? Do you fight? Do you surrender your firearms? Do you force them to arrest you? What?
Honestly, I don’t know the answer. Maybe there is no answer.
At that point, is the fight lost? Does the real battle occur in the hearts and minds of the voting public? Does the real battle start with a keyboard and cell phone at the dinner table?
I wanted your two cents.
Yours In liberty,
That’s when you, and every other citizen who have had their property confiscated, go to the state capitol and camp out on the front lawn until your message is received.
If IL passes the bills under consideration, I would say that you shouldn’t even wait until they come for your guns. Occupy immediately.
Just ask the 99% group how well that worked out for them, not saying I agreed with their mindset but I have seen multiple peaceful protest video’s where” big winky syndrom” takes over a LEO and out comes the riot gear and pepper spray…
There are a lot more gun owners, not to mention educated and responsible people, than there are greedy douchebags in the “occupy” group.
A demonstration like the massive pro-democracy movement by a bunch of college kids and working stiffs in a little place called Tiananmen square? None of that crowd were gun nuts, quasi-terrorists or anything other than law abiding. Imagine what will be done to those who are blamed as psycho gun lovers, that is a real danger to Utopia.
Thomas M, to answer your question, the reality is:
They show up, you ask to see the warrant (which they will of course have) and comply with the law enforcement personnel. They will be there because they too are obeying (and enforcing) the law.
Then you duke it out in court. You will of course be in good company with all the other law abiding citizens and special interest attorneys set to do battle over the seizure issues and 2nd Amendment rights. Let’s just hope that the Democrats don’t manage to stack the Supreme Court with anti 2nd Amendment jurists before this issue reaches that forum, if and when it again does.
The most recently proposed extremist gun grabbing laws haven’t been passed yet. If they begin to get traction as in Illinois, it is up to pro 2nd Amendment rights groups, outdoor sports businesses, and non-profits to organize opposition. Then (and even now) it is up to ALL OF US CONSTITUENTS to intelligently, enthusiastically, and vociferously contact our representatives and tell them we oppose such legislation. That recently occurred here in Kalifornia where another bill to restrict ownership of assault weapons did NOT make it out of committee due largely to the orchestrated massive outcry of interested constituents.
BTW, on another note, being an Independent is great. But if you are a conservative thinker which I suspect you are, be wary of having your vote split. If there are three candidates, one Democrat, one Republican, and one Independent, the Democrats tend to stick together in solidarity, whereas the conservative thinkers too often split out between Republican and Independent choices consequently splitting the conservative vote making it easier for a Democratic candidate to win. Think (and vote) strategically for the bigger, most important issues to you.
Oh, the “I was just following orders” defense, huh? Didn’t work at Nuremberg, didn’t work at My Lai and it won’t work now. Following illegal orders and violating your oath to uphold the Constitution makes you an enemy of the people.
The Tree of Liberty needs fertilizer. And there’s plenty of fertilizer around.
“The Tree of Liberty needs fertilizer. And there’s plenty of fertilizer around.”
Glad to see you volunteered. Make sure to let us all know how that worked out for you.
If a 4 man swat team breaks down your door AND don’t shoot you dead out of safety (for them) you’ll give it up. I would, under those conditions, as well.
You’d be in handcuffed so there wouldn’t be much choice at that stage.
In a recent off-line conversation about this very kind of question, two things came up:
If 2A is to protect citizenry from tyranny, but laws are passed criminalizing firearms without any action on that part of the citizenry, then a) that supposed intent of the 2A will never have been exercised and b) will no longer be able to be exercised.
Someone chimed in: “The time to bury guns is the time to use them”.
Pondering these two points sets one in a recursive loop….
And thus one has to ask: is a large peaceful protest wherein all participants open carry as a display of collective strength considered a legal and protected form of protest? Is it considered a threatening gesture? Is it considered an insurrection and subject to “pacification”?
When you say “pacification”, I assume you mean by force.
Any protest whereas people are open carrying, at least in most of this country, would be considered a threatening gesture and would be quickly dealt with via pacification.
In the parts of the country where open carry is legal, I’m sure the magnitude of so many open carrying people mixed with the fact that it is a protest, no matter how peaceful, will then allow law enforcement to ignore your rights and still pacify.
Yes, you have my meaning of “pacification” correct.
From your response, it sounds like the idea of 2A guarding against domestic tyranny is only a hypothetical or academic consideration.
It seems like there is no way to exercise it but through actual armed conflict. And that is a very weighty consideration….
Maybe I misunderstand the context of your use of Pacification. Unless I’m wrong, I believe pacification by force is an oxymoron.
Noun 1. pacification – the act of appeasing someone or causing someone to be more favorably inclined pacification – the act of appeasing someone or causing someone to be more favorably inclined; “a wonderful skill in the pacification of crying infants”; “his unsuccessful mollification of the mob”
appeasement, calming – the act of appeasing (as by acceding to the demands of)
I’m not sure where you got your definition, but Webster has this:
Definition of PACIFICATION
a : the act or process of pacifying : the state of being pacified
b : the act of forcibly suppressing or eliminating a population considered to be hostile
: a treaty of peace
Even after all the present and easily findable firearms have been confiscated, 2A armed resistance is still possible, what with the ease of construction of the Luty SMG, Luty Machine Pistol, and similar designs.
But just about every bill that has ever been passed has had a delay between passing and implementation, even if that is just a week. During that week, I predict that law enforcement organizations will receive a record number of reports of break-ins and stolen firearms. Many of these will apparently have been committed by very skilled lockpicks, as there will be no damage, but many others will have a broken window or other entryway. Perhaps the gunowner will retain a single low cost/low quality firearm which they just happened to have by their bed, and so was not taken, and which will be dutifully turned over, demonstrating that they are a law-abiding citizen.
Really, a broad firearm confiscation isn’t the time to give up on resistance, it’s the time to start. Lexington and Concord were in response to a government confiscation attempt, remember. But the colonists didn’t fight individually in their houses against a British squad. They didn’t resist one by one.
I’m not calling for an overthrow of the government, I just want people to remember their history.
It would obviously be a matter of state law. In Alabama (my home state) there is a statute against concealed carry at a public protest. However, open carry is a constitutional right. I don’t know how (or if) that has been resolved. My guess is that open carry at a protest is constitutional, but it would also get you a lot of grief and unwanted (depending on the circumstances) attention.
Displays of collective strength might work. It did in August of 1774, when approximately 3,000 armed colonists pressured the governor of Boston to release political prisoners (the Salem Committee of Correspondence held an “unlawful” meeting to select delegates to an upcoming convention*). Of course, this further made of the governor’s mind that he couldn’t control the people while they were armed. Thus, the campaign of “securing” gun powder houses for “safekeeping”, which escalated tensions and helped lead to the American Revolution.
Having a protest like this nowadays would be very tricky. Society in general might not have the capacity for understanding. It might even end up being the tipping point, depending on it’s scale. Definitely a “line in the sand” moment for our nation.
*From Bruce Krafft’s article on the origins of the 2nd Amendment.
The key is in non-compliance by Law Enforcement and the Military. The STATE can pass all the laws it wants to – if it can’t enforce them, there is no law. The Revolution will start there. And it doesn’t have to be and us VS them scenario – it can be us AND them.
So if you want to avert the slaughter of armed civilians during protest or a confiscation order, we need to start a grass-roots appeal to those parties that will be tasked with enforcement.
The sooner that we start securing public statements and petitions demonstrating their pledge to NOT COMPLY, the better. If Congress and State legislatures know before hand that they will lack enforcement powers, they won’t bother passing the laws, and may even pass laws freeing up the 2nd A in response.
As far as me personally, I am not foolish enough to participate in an armed civilian protest – but I WILL RESIST VIOLENTLY any and all attempts to seize my arms on my property. I will do it with remorse and compassion for the LEOs/MILs that are given that task, but it will end in a body count, no doubt including myself. That is my Pledge.
I am a LOE and have no intention of collecting anyone weapon at any time. I am not sure if and when they come for my weapons what I will do. The main thing that bothers me is they are together and we, are scattered.
“The main thing that bothers me is they are together and we, are scattered.”
We have to fix that, Joe.
Not an LEO
There will be blood.
To elaborate more on this… What if people started practicing counter SWAT tactics? After decades of SWAT teams being around surely we know their tactics by now? We can use this to our advantage in case of an unlawful search and seizure. Everyone’s house is different and if they know people are prepared there is no way they can possibly prepare without casualties. Perhaps this will make them think twice or maybe even make them not go in at all. They want a war we will give them one. We have the advantage of time to prepare on our side. Thoughts?
SWAT teams can only do so many raids in a day, and there are only so many SWAT teams to go around. The first people to get hit by them would die or give up their arms. But after that first day, people would know what was happening, and have many more options. A few ambushes would be enough to totally incapacitate just about any SWAT unit. And that still depends on them being willing to confiscate in the first place.
Absolutely. The ROEs would change rapidly.
Claymores rigged to barometers. When they do an entry, the first thing is a flash bang, which would set it off. Everyone would be dead or dying.
A simple coffee can of black powder/flour/grain dust mix just thrown in the air at the front door, amazing what a spark firing a gun provides will do in even an open environment, just think what it would do in a closed environment!
Heck, break the gas line off, get them to wait 15 minutes, then let them come in!
Besides, if they come for you in that fashion and you dont get the chance, the house doesnt matter, you wont be coming back.
Obey the law.
But if you are going to fight be the one to pick the time and place. Your front door when you are outgunned and outnumbered is not the place.
My Daddy always said: “If you are going to be in a fight, make sure you throw the first punch.”
“Fair fights are for movies and idiots,” is what mine always said.
“If you are not cheating, than you are not trying.”
-A saying from the USMC regarding fighting. I’m not sure of the source.
Rules of a gun fight.
1. Bring a gun
2. Win at all cost
3. Cheating is ecouraged
“What do you do? Do you fight? Do you surrender your firearms? Do you force them to arrest you? What?”
My answer is that I don’t answer questions like this at public forums on the internet, if you catch my drift. Please excuse me while I adjust my tinfoil hat…
The prosecution will check your internet history in an attempt to indict you.
Also, tinfoil helmets offer far superior protection than tinfoil hats.
Seconded – or – uh, Thirded.
Proclaiming your intentions to disobey the law on the internet are not terribly good things. Of course, I’m sure some folks are just being sarcastic. It’s just so hard to pick up tone from snippets of text.
As Guns N’ Roses would say “All I need is just a little paaaaatience…”
Yep. That’s why I expressly described below my intention to sell all of my firearms to private-party buyers, keeping all records as required by federal and state laws.
Normally I agree. But in this case I think it is important that everyone that might be involved in the destruction of the 2nd A know exactly what to expect from such action. I believe that is the only thing that might avert it. Silence on the issue only increases the inevitability of the worst case scenario.
If they take your guns, there’s no necessity to “force them to arrest you”; they’ll be back at a later date to give you a free ride to the Re-education Camp. Or, as we call it, Camp Feinstein.
Thomas, I understand your concern as that thought has also crossed my mind. My suggestion is to keep copies of documentation, serial numbers, photos, and other proof of legal ownership in a safety deposit box offsite. Fighting in that situation is pointless, you will be killed. The best you can do is sue them afterwards and hope they haven’t already destroyed your guns. Best of luck!
Yeah you may be killed, but if every gun owner can take just one grabber with them they will need several country’s standing armies to disarm everyone and if every grabber has to kiss their family goodbye, maybe for the last time, every morning they go to work I don’t think they will have the stomach(or the manpower) to keep it up for long.
There is method to that madness. If, and I say if they were to outright ban guns, and I saw a number the other day stating there are something like 2,000,000 AR’s in this country, getting all the bad guns would be next to impossible. If gun owners don’t simply cave and fight back, at some point things will be bad enough that the people will ask is it worth it? Don’t forget all those criminals haven’t registered jack so they will be plenty capable of continuing to commit crimes while all this is going on. Mean while the SAF, and NRA would be hard at work getting cases in front of judges etc…
“I will not confront the authorities nor attempt violence, but I will engage in a guerrilla cat and mouse campaign to stymie authorities for the purpose of making the confiscation effort long, tedious and enormously taxing on resources.”
Think of it this way. Would you rather be a stone wall or a muddy field? A stone wall can be knocked down or easily circumvented but a muddy field will slow them down until they eventually have to give up. Ask Hitler which was easier to conquer: the Maginot Line or Russia in spring?
I’m pretty sure that there are way more than 2,000,000 AR type rifles that are privately owned. AR-15’s have been available to the American public for almost 50 years. There are probably almost as many AK’s as well, not to mention FAL’s, G3 clones, Galils etc. There must be at least 25,000,000 scary looking semi-auto rifles in the hands of “we the people”.
In heavily populated gun hostile states like Calif., Illinois and New York there are probably a few million in each state. Texas and Florida, even more.
Agreed Dyspeptic, I am just saying that is simply a report.
One thing would be if gun manufacturers released their numbers of sales over the last decade. I am sure it would shock people. To that end it would also make the point that the genie is out of the bottle, and any form of getting them back in would be a futile effort at best.
@Jon – Ask Russia how many it lost before the Germans gave up. Can we afford that kind of victory?
I was presented with a similar question by a citizen of India. The horrific Delhi rape-murder is their “Sandy Hook” moment, but the reaction has been the opposite.
The question is answered, here: http://guardamerican.com/index.php/blog/38-protect/413-what-cultural-disruptions-will-occur-if-gun-control-prevails-in-the-usa
What I do is move somewhere more gun friendly before it gets to that point. We have plenty of room in Alabama, come on down.
In the scenario you presented, I think everyone gives up their guns. Are you going to run grab your pistol after you’ve opened the door to armed men in body armor? I don’t think so, you live to fight another day.
This is why you carry at home.
Yes… Remind me where do 100% of home invasions occur?
What’s the difference whether you live in NJ or AL? I will concede that we will see these bans proposed (and / or take effect) in some states sooner than in others, but the bottom line is that the politicians will try to apply the same restrictions to every state. So moving from state A to state B might be ok for a short while, but I don’t think it will solve anything. I sure hope I’m wrong and none of this nonsense passes, but our state and federal officials are so dumb, I wouldn’t put anything past them…
Most NJ cops will be only too happy to come take your guns. Some of the AL cops might tell their public officials to FOAD.
Exactly what Jack said. The difference is more “Red” states will openly oppose a Federal law they see as violating the Constitution or any of it’s amendments. Health Care and paying fines is one thing, but when you start messing directly with the 2nd and 4th Amendments, no amount of political rhetoric will hide the obvious disregard for the Constitution’s authority over any law passed by Congress.
I don’t think you guys are wrong, but the cynic in me thinks that the good cops will only be a minority, and there will be a larger federal force with more guns and more ammo, ready to put them in their place if they step out of line. Again, I hope I’m proven wrong, but I’m not holding my breath.
Are you going to run grab your pistol after you’ve opened the door to armed men in body armor?
Not far to run when it’s already on your hip…
Also is under your control at all times.
Or move to Texas, where Gov. Perry will tell them to FOAD and then mobilize the National Guard to arrest any FBI trying to enforce it. Pretty sure that would be his response.
One of the many reasons I moved to TX…
Nice state, gun-friendly people. BUT WHERE DOES YOUR GOVERNOR STAND? You will be needing some answers to that question. The sooner, the better.
Will he stand up against Das Grabbenkorps, or will he cave? Or will he actively assist them?
Freedom, is worth Fighting for, Killing for and Dying for, and firearms ownership is an issue of Freedom.
While moving my family & friends to somewhere a little more “friendly” would be ideal it is not realistic. Although, it is a fantasy of mine to be able to live somewhere gun and freedom friendly (New Hampshire & the Free State Project has caught my eye from time to time). Alas, it just isn’t in the cards.
Thanks for everyone’s input. It is much appreciated.
I am also totally buying that door mat. Like, right now. On Amazon. It’s $22 and free shipping.
As someone living in central jersey with guns too I feel your pain man. You and I know they’ll being coming to us first due to our paper trails. As soon as I can me and the lady are taking off to PA within 18 months. LGS hasn’t seen new 556 since the rush began… but hey their not price gouging so there’s that. Only semi rifles theyve had for going on 2 weeks are 22s and the berreta storms no idea when getting more ect ect…
call my lawyer
I am in the same boat (NJ-born, NY-residing, liberty-loving, RKBA kinda guy) and I have the rudiments of my plan bubbling up from the back of my brain. The guns will simply not be at the location that the police show up at to confiscate them. I have many options to stash them and stash them I will. I will allow the police, with proper warrant in hand, to search the premises and they will find nothing. If they haul me to jail for lack of producing the guns that they know I have, so be it. I have contingency plans to have my business run smoothly and my household bills to be paid in my absence. I will also have a lawyer teed up and ready to try and get me out of jail. I will not confront the authorities nor attempt violence, but I will engage in a guerrilla cat and mouse campaign to stymie authorities for the purpose of making the confiscation effort long, tedious and enormously taxing on resources. Now, I can’t assume that everyone will put up with jail time, but if many of us are willing to engage in a massive cat-n-mouse game, it will render the confiscation effort mind-bogglingly expensive, disruptive and, hopefully, futile. Then maybe the elites and the gun-grabbers will learn what they are really up against.
They better get started building all the jails/prisons to house all of the law abiding “criminals”. How in the hell is that gonna work? The prison system is already bursting at the seams.
Camps are a lot cheaper and easier to construct. See: Crypto-Fascist Sheriff Joe Arpaio’s tent city.
Well this is a good question.
I don’t know if there is a right answer. Many will simply turn in their guns. No piece of steel and plastic is worth dying over right? Others might be quite ready to defend themselves. Of course media will look at that person as a loner, and look he had some things in his past, he was a criminal, he was a “gun nut”. These are all things we have heard before. We will hear them again in order to frame the national argument for confiscation.
But at some point there will be that school teacher, or maybe a well respected veteran, or priest who decides it is better to fight and loose than give in to tyranny. Those folks won’t be able to be spun into criminals very easily. People will hopefully begin to wake up to what will be happening.
We of the Armed Intelligentsia will have been following the cases and well aware of what is going on. That will be the time you and only you decide whether it is time to fight or lay down and give up. No one can make that decision for you. No one will blame you for your decision. What is more important is that at least you have a choice. Once they take them away, well, you will have far less choices in life.
I will not state what I would or would not do on a public forum. One thing I can say that all should do would be to reach out to media. If they start kicking in the doors, the people need to know!
Not to be overly pessimistic, but if a good guy does resist you won’t hear about it via the media. They’ve already shown where their loyalties lie and it isn’t with the Constitution.
If you hear about it, it will be via the Internet and people will dismiss it as fake.
Thats why the media who supports such an action would be the first target, and it will be public, hard to hide that kinda mess!
See how long they report the lies then!
Nice try, BATFE agent!
In all seriousness, I’m not stupid enough to mention what my plans may or may not be on a public website that is undoubtedly monitored by multiple DOJ and law enforcement agencies throughout this nation.
My understanding is that TTAG is on the DHS radar, and is remotely monitored. That’s just a hunch, though.
I have no issues whatsoever stating publicly my intention to resist any and all confiscation attempts. There has to be a line in the sand somewhere, and that where it is for me. YMMV.
I have a moral duty to resist unjust laws.
Son, leave your benighted state for a state where “gun registration” is unheard of and hollow-points are legal.
A state where there’s a majority of freedomlovers/gun owners that you can bond with and breathe the(relatively) free air.
Start your job search now, and get out while the getting’s good. Leave your high property/income taxes and overbearing regulation hemming in your life at every turn(not just with guns). “Go west(or south) young man”, but leave your sinking ship of a state ASAP. You won’t believe how much less antiacid you’ll consume once you do this.
How many people with “Molon labe” stickers will give them up without a fight? I’d say 99%. I’m taking my Maryland butt to West by-God Virginia and staying there.
You have to ask yourself, are you ready to die for your freedoms, for your children’s freedoms, for your children’s children’s freedoms?
It’s tough and it would be really easy to be selfish and just give up – but that would be spitting in the face of the millions before us who sacrificed their lives.
The sad thing is my kid was so brainwashed in collage she hates guns. (And does not smile at the thought of me owning one. Ha If she only knew). So handing the Second Amendment or the Constitution, for that matter, down may be an effort of futility. If we could only make those in favor of gun confiscation live in Mexico for a year, should they last that long, they may feel differently after that.
And BTW after reading some of the violent rhetoric coming from the grabbers, I’m grateful they are opposed to guns in the sense that they, except for Fienstien and Schumer , don’t have guns. I think part of the problem is the antis projecting there predilection towards violence and haltered onto us.
The overwhelming majority of the billy the kid, gun slinger bullshit about concealed carriers is projection. The anti’s can’t trust their ability to control themselves, so they assume no one else can.
If the attrition rate among confiscation teams were sufficiently high, it could impact their effectiveness.
If, in some dark, dystopian future, a law is passed banning gun ownership I think that the government would be hard pressed to find law enforcement and military personnel willing to put on their jackboots and kick in doors, especially outside of major metropolitan areas. I know that there will always be a few people willing to become those thugs, but those members of law enforcement and military I know would tell their bosses to shove it if they were kicking down people’s doors for their guns.
At that point, the LE is indoctrinated or pressured into enforcing the law.
It has happened and continues to happen.
This idea of an awakening of conscience on the part of the LE is naive.
Agreed… As per our previous discussion regarding those with molan labe forfeiting their guns… I’m willing to bet when it comes to putting bread on the table and keeping a roof over their head, most LE and MIL will “just follow orders.”
I plan to take a nice boat ride on this lovely boat called the Minnow, which a friend of mine has hired to take us on a 3 hour tour of the pacific.
I think this is exactly why no such order will ever be given. Instead, the guncontrollers are waging a slow war of attrition whereby they don’t take anyone’s guns from them by force, they just make it illegal to transfer them. Upon death, the estate must surrender them to law enforcement for destruction. Within a generation or two, no more guns. (Or so they think.) These intentions are clearly apparent in DiFi’s new gun-ban bill.
“Within a generation or two, no more guns. (Or so they think.)”
Right. That’s what they think. They’re presuming that all “transfers” will conform to their statutes.
They all have pensions and mortgages, they’ll do what they’re told.
The thing is if they do register/confiscate them they will not come to your door until you have had plenty of time to register/turn them in. They will come to the front door after you have not registered them or turned them in.
They can’t get them all and fighting at your front door when outgunned is not an option. You will have plenty of time to plan before this happens and plan you should. Military tactics always state you pick the time and place for any battle if at all possible. You deciding when to fight gives you a great tactical advantage.
I believe only in the major cities will the local police try to confiscate them. In most areas outside the bigger cities the locals will tell the feds if they want them they go get them. In the outlying areas the locals know most of the people and they know what will happen if they try it. Besides I believe many Sheriff’s/Police will refuse to do it not because it would really be dangerous for them but they don’t believe in it.
Feinstein doesn’t expect her whole bill to pass. It was put out with that wording to just get those use to hearing of such things. They know they have to go in steps and this is just one step. It may be a larger step than in the past but it will be just a step. They will have another bill written up ready to go and will just be waiting on another CT. They as well as we know that it will happen again. Those Gun Free Zones are a magnet to maniacs out there who want their 15 minutes of fame. Taking the guns won’t stop them. They know that. This is not about gun control this is all about people control. They can’t have total control of us until we are all disarmed.
Its great living in a nation where we dont have to worry about thugs breaking down our doors and hauling us away in the night, you know, like those poor bastards overseas who live under oppressive regimes.
Freedom isn’t free, but unfortunately many have since forgotten.
Id say they would have a hard time most gun owners would hide there weapons before registration SO the Nazi ATF would not have a clue on where to go.
I’m in the “The time to bury guns is the time to use them” camp.
I would suggest joining local pro-gun groups and find a local militia group, there is strength in numbers, it will help you fight the dumb laws in the legislature etc.
Another benefit of these groups is intelligence gathering, hopefully you’ll know they’re coming before they get there and you can chose to run or fight at that time.
I wouldn’t be registering anything either, as far as I’m concerned the registration fee is unconstitutional, think “poll tax”, you don’t pay to exercize a fundamental right.
“When it’s time to burry your guns, it’s time to dig them up”
With you on that one 😉
Sales are brisk for Mono Vaults.
I’m not advocating anything, but the problem with a militia is that the term is such a political hot-spot that the Feds are going to have a mole or turn one of your member into one so fast that they’ll not only know all of your plans but they’ll likely have helped orchestrate them in such a fashion as to lead you into an ambush.
What guns?? I traded them all in for Walmart gifts cards years ago and used the money to help the homeless *fixes his tinfoil hat*
I never actually bought any guns…those four background checks in 2012 was just to make sure that I could pass one. Yeah, that’s the ticket!
If we get to the point where the law requires that firearms, previously legal to own, must be surrendered, it’s already too late. People talk about burying them in the back yard or “losing” them in the lake. Even if such tactics are successful, they still lose the use of their guns. They can’t go hunting or target shooting. Even if they have one in hiding for self defense, how will they explain the bullet riddled criminal?
Our best hope for preserving and expanding gun rights is to regularly communicate our opinions to legislators at the appropriate level of government. Every time a bill that affects gun rights, either positively or negatively, comes up, send a brief, polite, rational e-mail that states your position. A long winded justification isn’t necessary. Just let them know whether you are for or against the bill.
Good advice,Kendahl. Patience and work within the system.
Here’s what’ll happen. 4-5 people will shoot back and die of sudden onset led poisoning. 1 won’t hit anyone and will make a fool of himself. The other 4 will punch above their weight. Idiot #1 will be a media poster for “stupid rednecks.” Corpses #2-5 will be footnotes in an “objective” Yale psychology paper on those crazy gunners. Liberal whites will die like their cousins in South Africa, smug in their pacifism.
You left out “and 99% of gun owners will voluntarily register their guns, and later turn them in, doing no more than complaining bitterly to friends and family about the injustice.”
It’s the 1% (us!) who are the activists that will rouse the other 99%, not in arms, but through our exercise of our 1st Amendment rights.
It was implied that if 5 resist the others will comply.
No one can honestly answer this question! I know what I would LIKE to do if this day ever comes.
The thing is, now is the time to fight; with your internet connection and telephone.
I have been calling and emailing my elected representatives on a daily basis.
Here in Massachusetts, the Pols are starting to look at other avenues to achieve their gun control goals. There is now talk of liability insurance and ammunition taxes. They know they can’t take our guns away, so the next best thing is to make ownership prohibitavely expensive.
Soap box, ballot box, jury box, ammo box.
…pine box if need be.
I’ve heard #s suggesting that in the US there are 80-100 million gun owners. If 0.1% of those owners literally fought to the death and the other 99.9% gave everything up that’s still 80,000 – 100,000 hardcore fighters, probably fighting an insurgent war. Just my opinion but is the US prepared to deal with that from a political AND fiscal POV?
haha!!! i have that same door mat. I actually decided to put it in front of my bedroom door instead of the front door. I read that this guy had the cops show up at his house, unbeknownst to him, they noticed the door mat said “come back with a warrant” so they did… and raided his house. Not sure what for but I dont want to deal with it… Instead I now have one that says “Hi, I’m mat!”
America is an idea. A lot of men and women have died for that idea. They are still dying for that idea. Many more were maimed or a least risked their lives to maintain the idea.
Is my life somehow worth more than theirs?
Do I owe it to them, and the future to do my part?
If fate and circumstance decide it’s my turn, I will.
I posted this in another thread a fews days ago; but it bears repeating:
“You and I know and do not believe that life is so dear and peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery. If nothing in life is worth dying for, when did this begin — just in the face of this enemy? Or should Moses have told the children of Israel to live in slavery under the pharaohs? Should Christ have refused the cross? Should the patriots at Concord Bridge have thrown down their guns and refused to fire the shot heard ’round the world? The martyrs of history were not fools, and our honored dead who gave their lives to stop the advance of the Nazis didn’t die in vain. Where, then, is the road to peace? Well it’s a simple answer after all.
You and I have the courage to say to our enemies, “There is a price we will not pay.” “There is a point beyond which they must not advance.”
“We’ll preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on earth, or we’ll sentence them to take the last step into a thousand years of darkness.”
“We’ve made too many compromises already. Too many retreats. … Not again. The line must be drawn here. This far, no further.”
In my experience unarmed protestors are ignored and abused.
In great number arrive at your respective capitols armed in the same manner the Panthers showed up at the CA house.
It’s amazing how respectfully you are treated with a rifle slung over your shoulder.
Armed protests almost never cause a ruckus. Unarmed protest considering devolve into rioting kids and police brutality.
The first minutemen won’t fire any shots. They’ll drop everything to stand on the front lawn and be seen.
Unloaded-open-carry protests at the statehouse here in CA directly resulted in our loss of open-carry rights.
Any form of arms-bearing protest in a state such as IL/CA/MA/etc. which does not conform to existing law will NOT simply be ignored because there are a couple hundred (or even a thousand) people willing to risk their legal qualification to own firearms. Instead, the protestors would be herded and corralled into a controlled area, then an assembly-line process set up to disarm, cite and arrest each participant.
Also, it is a felony in CA to attend a protest while carrying any weapon.
And we can thank Governor Reagan and the GOP for this sorry state, so don’t give me this BS that Republicans have been any better about adhering to the Constitution. Democrats are overzealous, and Republicans are underhanded, and that is the only real difference.
It would depend on what else is happening in the country. If it is just my state (or city), then I move to a different place. If nation-wide marshall law has been declared, the Constitution is declared null and void, and everyone’s door is being knocked on or kicked off the hinges in all 50 states, with warrentless searches for newly illegal guns being done everywhere, then I’m joining the resistance movement. If there is no resistance movement in my area, I’ll try to start one, if I can’t start one, then after safeguarding my family as best I can, we go underground. I will not go willingly to a “re-education camp”, and I will not submit to an illegal government without a fight, which probably means I die sooner, rather than later. But at that point, I think I’d rather be dead than live in a dictatorship under marshall law.
Amen, better to die on our feet than to live on our knees. I believe in a certain amount of passive non-compliance, but if things got as bad as you postulated in your scenario, yeah, it is time to fight back.
If you’ve waited until they break down your door, you’re too late.
I must say I wouldn’t register them in the first place because, as a criminal I’m not required to and by not registering them I become a criminal.
Join or form a militia. If they want to insist that only militias have 2A protection, then be in a militia and point out that a militia as defined at the time of writing was not the standing army or police of the state.
Here in the Imperial Republic of Illinois, I believe in passive non-compliance. It may not happen in such fashion, but I’ve thought about it and the repercussions a lot. I still wouldn’t surrender a damned thing though, good luck finding them.
good luck finding them.
luck finding them
…been waiting for that one. the answer to the OP’s question is “prepare accordingly”
What do you do?
You scenario is flawed, legislative action would be necessary prior to confiscation.
You will not be making a snap decision. You will be implementing a decision you made weeks, if not months, before SWAT knocks on your door.
You’re assuming the Feds don’t already have a Martial law/confiscation SOP in place that can be deployed in less than 48 hours – which they do.
Why, I think that I’d invite them into the parlor for tea and biscuits and engage them with witty conversation and discuss the relative merits of democratic constitutional republics versus those of authoritarian klepto-thugocracys.
Better not be any sugar or transfats in the tea and biscuits, you monster.
“kleptothugocracy” I love it! Can I use it,please?
If I still lived in Connecticut? Load up the car and move to Tennessee like I did two years ago making sure to bury thoes particular items at the bottom of my apartment (in the car). Buy a couple of medical urinals and not stop in certain states, just drive… like a granny so I dont get stopped.
Fortunatley, I moved two years ago and have bought all of my guns here in TN.
A wise man. And that’s why we call ’em Volunteers.
“The question is not how far. The question is, do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far is as needed?”
I know EXACTLY what I will do, I have made up my mind. You better make up your mind and now what you are going to do should that day ever come.
Haha nice BDS quote there, Il Duce
Yes I did A+ comment
The first day the first shot is fired in the first raid to seize guns, all bets are off & all speculations moot.
It will be the shot heard round the world. This isn’t the USSR.
As a practical matter you will see this coming. First, take your favorite pistol and long gun and set them aside. Then go through your collection and sell them to the crazies who are going to resist. Most are all talk and will meekly comply but you will you get some nice cash out of it. The rest of the guns you can turn in like good little citizen. The rifle and handgun you set aside? Report them stolen and then hide them on your property. They won’t be accessible when the thugs break down your door to steal your goods but hopefully after the entire country turns into Chicago the pols will figure out that an armed citizenry keeps crime low and repeals this nonsense you will have your guns.
This is the stupidest comment I’ve read all day. They’ll enjoy living in their ivory towers while the proles are abused by the common criminal and the common corrupt law enforcer.
Once a federal gun control law passes it is never repealed. Ever.
Actually, yours is. Did you ever hear of tongue in cheek?
You know what they say “better to be silent and let people think you are a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt.”
My concern is also laws like the NDAA, no criminal charges, indefinite detention to name a couple of the things an agency can do to you now. This seems to me this may force our hands, I will not be unlawfully detained because NDAA allows it and then rotting in some forgotten detention facility(concentration camp) wishing I didn’t let them take me away in the first place. I hope to God this never happens but these evil people will just not stop with their treasonous, insane and power hunger corrupted minds pushing these “gun control” laws.
Most likely, they’ll be turned in, but people will then blow up stuff guerilla/terrorist warfare style later. I don’t think there is much to be gained directly firing on the people taking them back from your house other than martyrdom. It’s a nice sentiment but I don’t know that it’s long term effective. You end up dead and your guns are still gone.
Likely there are parallels to be drawn from Prohibition events. They managed to break the gov’t eventually and win that one.
Where are the links to home brew your own AR15s?
I don’t see it coming to this, but if it does. Just for the sake of “what if”. If you’re hunkering behind your barricaded door waiting for the swat or military team to breach you’ve already lost the fight. Resistence at that point truly is futile.
If you intend to use armed resistence againtgs the G you need the support and orginization of the military. There will have to be discaplined units. After all, the reason for this resistence is to restore freedom and the constitution to the country, not just to cause chaos.
remember, this isn’t Iraq or Afghanistan. The people attempting to force their will on you are not foreign troops wishing to go home at the end of their deployment. They speak the same language as you and may live just next door. Afew IED’s and assinations aren’t going to return freedom to America under these conditions.
You will need organised units ready to take the field and the logistics and leadership that entails. Basically you’d need the military. And that brings up a whole new set of potential problems.
Not at all. We’d be fighting a police action
My county has 300,000 people in it. If 1,500 people with long guns organized into 5 man teams, the swat teams would piss themselves and quit if they went on the offensive.
So your 1500 men split into 5 man teams and run the swat teams off. Then what? Difi and Barry say,”My bad” and void the unconstitutional laws? Or armored units backed by air units move in and do a large scal Ruby Ridge on you.
If it has come down to swat teams going door to door after our guns then the constitution is effectively void. Our only real hope then is a second American revolution. We’ll need your 1500 man unit organised into a regiment of volunteers to operate alongside the regulars that choose to attempt to return freedom to America.
Sorry, no. They’d call in SWAT from the Feds, the state and surrounding jurisdictions and your county would be swept end-to-end like Fallujah.
Ever seen white blood cells swarm an invading organism? Every time they made contact with one of your ‘resistance cells’ the first team would pin them down while a half-dozen more teams swooped in within minutes.
Guess what? Most of your fellow citizens would be helping the guys in uniform catch the armed resistance cells on the loose, not the other way around.
Insurgents have the luxury of not needing to hold positions. Professional militaries however require massive support networks: fuel for air and armor, power for electronics and communications, food for thousands of soldiers, enough ammunition to operate their machine guns, medical supplies to treat injuries and disease both from combat and non-combat, recreational entertainment and law enforcement to keep their troops in line, boots, uniforms, replacement parts, mechanics, and so on.
An insurgent can obtain everything they need to be effective from any one of millions of homes and businesses in this country, without ever touching a firearm. Just the basics for people who don’t need to worry about maintaining a fleet of drones, tanks, and heavy weaponry.
No need to shoot cops.
However, cop cars and various support vehicles become targets.
A couple of .308 rounds through the engine block should be more than enough to put the car out of commission for a while.
As a variation, lay seige to a police station, taking out every single vehicle you can find. Wait for help to show up, destroy more equipment.
Police forces have finite resources. If the local police have the time to confiscate guns, then obviously they have too many resources. Thin out the support infrastructure without killing anyone, you just might get the cops to take a second look at their priorities.
Radio towers, cell phone towers, transformers, lots of things that go snap crackle pop when introduced to a .30 cal enema!
Hopefully, you wouldn’t be home but about 500 yards away with some friends………The 223 round from that far with someone who doesn’t know how to shoot far away is useless. But if you know how to shoot at distance with .30 caliber….well, you know.
You would probably know they were coming so you could bug out in a days advance or set up an ambush where your neighbor across the street starts firing and then you fire from the other side, then they would be pretty screwed. Also. they would have to raid all the gang houses. they are pretty well armed too
The first order of business in establishing a tyranny: disarm the populace as soon as you possess the political power to do so. (essentially consolidating power and preventing effective future opposition)
See also: Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, the People’s Republic of China, and any other military dictatorship you care to name.
A free people may possess arms as they wish. Subjects and slaves may not. For any student of history, arms confiscation should be considered an act of war on the general population. (go ahead, look up the millions killed by Communism in the 20th century alone) Fortunately for those of us in the U.S., the citizens of Lexington and Concord understood what it meant when the British army came to seize their arms. They knew it to be an undeclared act of war, and responded accordingly.
Educate your Congressmen. Arms confiscation is an act of war, because of what invariably follows.
Fellow citizens and compatriots;
I am besieged, by a thousand or more of the Mexicans under Santa Anna. I have sustained a continual Bombardment and cannonade for 24 hours and have not lost a man. The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion, otherwise, the garrison are to be put to the sword, if the fort is taken. I have answered the demand with a cannon shot, and our flag still waves proudly from the walls. I shall never surrender or retreat. Then, I call on you in the name of Liberty, of patriotism & everything dear to the American character, to come to our aid, with all dispatch. The enemy is receiving reinforcements daily and will no doubt increase to three or four thousand in four or five days. If this call is neglected, I am determined to sustain myself as long as possible and die like a soldier who never forgets what is due to his own honor & that of his country. Victory or Death.
William Barret Travis
Lt. Col. Comdt.
That’s 100% badass.
I would sell all of mine prior to the effective date of any such legislation.
Of course, I would keep any and all records of such transactions that are required by federal and state (CO) law.
First thing is buy me one of those door mats!!!
Next: ” I plead the 5th amendment Your Honor”!!!
In court: (voice of Ronald Reagen):” I have no knowledge your honor” !!!!
All you have to do is fake a burglary, claim all your handguns were stolen, and hide them until it all blows over.
Depending on your state, all you have to do is sell them to a random person on the street. For cash. With no receipt. And no copy of the buyer’s ID (which you, of course, checked to make sure he was a resident of the same state and was of legal age to possess the firearm(s)).
The best answer is to never let it come to this. Fight every single gun law, no matter how small or trivial. Incrementalism is the favorite tool of statists. Give them a magazine ban now, they will be for the black rifles later. Give them that and they will be back for your Glock. The time is now, we have come a long way since the 94 ban and we can keep (and expand!) our 2nd amendment rights as long as we don’t become complacent in the current battleground, which is in our state and federal congress.
I think another interesting question the OP raises is whether your less than sympathetic friends and family would report you.
Really, it would be for his own good. Owning nasty guns and bullets and assault clips, it’s just not how a normal person behaves. I hope he gets the help he needs before it’s too late.
Without a doubt. It’s happened in every other genocide, why wouldn’t it happen here? Look at the news, we see firsthand how vile, vicious, and morally bankrupt the leftists all around us are.
Sadly yes. I know a half dozen friends/family would do it to “help” me.
The battle begins right now with our votes and The Supreme Court!
And don’t allow politicians and their body guards be armed!
In the USA when there is a demand for a product or a service that demand will be satisfied in some way. Thus the drug trade, etc. If guns are pulled then guns would be introduced. These new guns would be far more deadly and far less safe than anything we would be able to buy in a store today as they would not be regulated. The individual person would make the decision to be armed or not and it would be like the decision people make today, cocaine or not.
Quite right. It would be a new business opportunity for the drug cartels. At first, they would buy them outside the US and smuggle them in like they do drugs. If foreign sources dried up, the cartels have the resources to design and build from scratch.
My thoughts exactly. I think what has kept some very creative folks “in check” has been that they ARE law abiding. Look @ the drug running subs coming out of Central America for an example of what determined folks are willing to do.
Given the scenario, the question you have to ask yourself is, are you willing to die for what you REALLY believe in?
If not, answer the door and surrender your firearms.
If so, fight. But be prepared to die for your belief.
I believe in the Golden Rule, so if they come respectfully, they’ll be treated the same and I’ll see them in court. If they come heavy . . . .
first off, i would never register my guns. second, i would have most of my guns hidden somewhere where they would never be found, and would just have a couple of guns that i didn’t care about laying around.
Don’t know what I would do. I would hope that I had made plans before itcame to me alone at my door facing several armed people. My tin foil hat did tell me to go through my ammo a few hundred rounds a day with a cloth to make sure to polish off any finger prints and to only handle ammo from now on with gloves on. I am sure that was just in case my house is broken into and lest some of my stolen ammo be found near any 2a vs gun grabber army gun fights. Wouldn’t want there to be any of my prints to lead them UNJUSTLY back to me.
Once you hear that they are going door to door you go after them because offense if more effective than defense. Robbery, Arson, Vandalism, etc….Asymetrical (Gorilla) warfare on a VAST scale. There would no longer be liberty so all would be justified, nessessary, and expected of patriots. Killing and targeted assassination would be the final response in the end, assuming the state and federal authorities started pulling murderous Nazi/Soviet tactics.
We are still (odviously) far from needing to even contemplate such a grim scenario, though it is our job to make sure it never needs to come to this.
In all honesty?
I do not think the “knock at the door with the police come to take my firearms” will ever happen.
Oh don’t get me wrong, the laws banning guns may pass, but the police will not uphold it any more than the Citizens will accept it. Law Enforcement personnel are not the Jack-booted stormtroopers many try to make them out to be. They are men and women, mostly conservative, very pro-Gun. They will be the first to tell you that “when seconds count, we are only minutes away”. Many are also veteran Military, another staunchly Pro-Gun group.
In a word, Police are highly conservative and Pro-Gun and know what is and is not constitutional regardless of what Gun Ban law idiots like Senator Feinstein may get passed. They are not going to come knocking to take your guns.
There is an organization called “Oathkeepers”.
Oathkeepers are, in their own words:
“a non-partisan association of current and formerly serving military, reserves, National Guard, veterans, Peace Officers, and Fire Fighters who will fulfill the Oath we swore, with the support of like minded citizens who take an Oath to stand with us, to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, so help us God. Our Oath is to the Constitution
Our motto is ‘Not on our watch!'”
There are 10 orders, which they have sworn NOT to obey.
One of those orders is this one….
And it happens to be NUMBER ONE, in their 10 orders they will not obey.
“1. We will NOT obey any order to disarm the American people.
The attempt to disarm the people on April 19, 1775 was the spark of open conflict in the American Revolution. That vile attempt was an act of war, and the American people fought back in justified, righteous self-defense of their natural rights. Any such order today would also be an act of war against the American people, and thus an act of treason. We will not make war on our own people, and we will not commit treason by obeying any such treasonous order.
Nor will we assist, or support any such attempt to disarm the people by other government entities, either state or federal.
In addition, we affirm that the purpose of the Second Amendment is to preserve the military power of the people so that they will, in the last resort, have effective final recourse to arms and to the God of Hosts in the face of tyranny. Accordingly, we oppose any and all further infringements on the right of the people to keep and bear arms. In particular we oppose a renewal of the misnamed “assault-weapons” ban or the enactment of H.R. 45 (which would register and track gun owners like convicted pedophiles).”
So rest easy. At least in concern for the police coming to take your guns. Regardless of the law.
Whole lotta bad poker player here…
There is a law on the books called ex-post-facto. You cannot punish someone for something if there was no law concerning it. when they did it. Well everything I did is and was legal when I bought them. i haven’t committed any crimes, so anyone who tries to take anything I have, that I bought legally, better know more than I do, because I like reading the laws and I am a big fan of the constitution. Good luck to them. They had best read up!!! Oh and I’m going to find every single precedent dealing with this subject, that is out there. I’ve been doing my homework, have you?
There are also laws on the books with such friendly terms as “clawback” in them.
I will remind them of my 2nd, .4th and 14th Amendment rights. I will inform them of the 2008 SC decision, I will cite RICO laws, privacy laws, and every other law I WILL find. Then I will tell them that if they don’t get off my property I will have them arrested for harassment! There are plenty of precedents also. Unless they can prove that these were ill gotten gains (which they were not) they will leave the premises sans anything of mine!
1.) “Don’t fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war let it begin here.” Captain John Parker, to his Minute Men on Lexington Green, April 19, 1775
2.) “I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I’ll kill you all” General James Mattis
3.) “Lord, make me fast and accurate. Let my aim be true and my hand faster than those who would seek to destroy me. Grant me victory over my foes and those that wish to do harm to me and mine. Let not my last thought be “If only I had my gun”; and Lord if today is truly the day that You call me home, let me die in a pile of brass.” – Ranger Up shirt : http://www.rangerup.com/brassvintage.html
If anyone can read those and not know what they have to do, you misunderstand your country.
I will not be trodden upon. I will not be shorn to await slaughter. I will not live on my knees. I will not think of the country I was raised in with a tear in my eye, with only my memory to remind me that America was great.
I WILL die with a roar of defiance on my lips, and the full fury and conviction that are my birthright as an American. I will also die having updated facebook and having called the news, so hopefully every American will know the balloon has gone up.
……damn I sound like a crazy person.
But really, don’t we ACTUALLY have the legal obligation to prevent Treason if we see it? I can’t actually tell what law I’d be breaking if I unfortunately had to shoot some Domestic Terrorists that happened to work for the ATF, while they were on my property trying to destroy the American way of life…….
Tin-foil firmly in place, μολὼν fucking λαβέ!
I like you.
Mike, I readily admit that Gingrich can make ludicrous statements, at occasions. But no one formulates difficulties better or understands how absurd and dangerous the consequences of liberal premises and ideas are than Newt. How lousy would he be above the length of the presidential campaign? Well, other than a statement about colonizing the moon(I won’t be able to keep a straight encounter as I wrote that), I don’t bear in mind Newt declaring everything preposterous. And if and when he does, he knows tips on how to fight back again. Romney does not even learn how to begin a combat. Certainly, I agree: Romney does say an excellent deal with which I concur. But his task will not be to existing conservative arguments the base already believes inthat was completed during the primariesbut to articulate these arguments for that unconvinced. I also concur: he might be a fine president. And needless to say I agree: Obama is incompetent. I really hope you happen to be right that other individuals are now seeing that, even so the evidence is rather thin.
Our homeowners group has bylaws laws adjust that, which some old guy I don’t know (always where’s a hat with screaming eagles on it) who oversees the neighborhood watch. Anyway the American Legion club down the street.
WE’LL HOLD COURT IN THE STREET. HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW.
we the collective, must be willing to go down in a blaze of patriotic glory. Knowing we are the patriots that are watering the tree of liberty. Every single door they breach must be met with a wall of lead from a patriot.
Every single incident must make the nightly news.
Or if we mean to not fight individually then we must ban together as brothers of liberty each of us willing to water the tree… so that when they come for that first guy they breach that first door and they are met with 20 men and women from your local area weapons locked and loaded aimed at that door. Or out on the front lawn as they arrive. This solidarity would be hard to ignore on the evening news. you may think that the news woudl try to portray us as nuts untill they have to do it 3, 4, 5 times all over the country and its not some isolated bunch of crazies but its common place. When they see the mountain they will have to climb when state SWAT teams begin to see this and they question…”do i want to open the door of this next house and get shot?” thats when when we get our point across.