DeSantis Gunhide Question of the Day: Duty to Inform for Concealed Carry. Yes or No?">Previous Post
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Nice of the Daily News to take a shot a Donald Trump (so to speak) in this video about the petition to allow open carry at the Republican national convention this July (26k signatures and counting). While this effort has the same chance of success as Michal Idan at the World Beard and Mustache championships, I’d dearly love to see an open carry-friendly RNC. It would prove the old adage that an armed society is a polite society. Well, at least not homicidal. Yes? Or is that just a silly idea?

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  1. They might as well get used to it. If things keep sliding downhill we’ll all be walking around armed (OC) anyway. Might be a good thing if they all carried. The BR suit industry would love it.

    • Of course they should.

      If they don’t, they are hypocrites that will just give more cannon fodder to the other side. I’m so tired of the republican doublespeak. If it’s too dangerous for the republicans, then it’s too dangerous for society at large. Case closed.

      So stop yer yap’n an start yer pack’n!

    • Historically, and feel free to correct me if I am mistaken, all assassinations and attempted assassinations of presidents and presidential candidates of either party have been carried out by democrats or Liberals or communists.

      The lone exception was the assassination of James Garfield by Charles Guiteau who was a Republican but had a personal grudge against Garfield for not appointing him consul in Paris.

      • “Historically, and feel free to correct me if I am mistaken, all assassinations and attempted assassinations of presidents and presidential candidates of either party have been carried out by democrats or Liberals or communists.”

        You repeat yourself.

  2. If I was in the Secret Service security detail protecting a candidate, I don’t think I’d be a fan of the idea. I was sort of surprised that the guy who went up on the podium at a Trump event didn’t end up dead.

    • So, you are falling into the trap that just because someone is OC-ing that means they are, by that criterion alone, a threat?

      I’m struggling to grasp why the SS should be bothered by it. Threat assessment is based more on actions, and the gun they don’t see is, I would bet, the bigger worry.

      That is, I’m guessing they are more concerned by surprises, not people bein’ open and all up-front.

      But yeah, guns icky…a notion deeply embedded in our culture.

    • I don’t really care if they’re “fans of the idea” or not. The public servants in this country are supposed to carry out their duties as best they can, in spite of inconvenient civil liberties that make their jobs harder.

      Police are to enforce the local laws while respecting the 4th amendment (I would argue for harsher consequences when they don’t).

      Prosecutors are advocate cases of the state according while adhering to 5th amendment.

      The joint chiefs are to make operational plans and policies while respecting the 3rd amendment.

      All politicians are to try their utmost to carry out their duties in spite of protests, printed lies, and wacky religious claims of their enemies – the 1st amendment trumps their convenience.

      Put the candidates in plexiglass cages if you have to, but I will not forget nor forgive their incessant trampling of our rights. I don’t care who they are or who they protect.

  3. No. Let’s not turn this into the new black panthers at polling booths.
    It’s just bad publicity.
    If you want to carry at something like this, carry concealed.
    Of course, that’s just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

    • That’s my opinion, too. Far too many things that could go wrong, both in terms of public perception and in actual safety. It’s showboating at best, self-defeating at worst.

      I figure if state law already provides for concealed carry, that answers both the practical purpose and the general right without the downsides.

  4. Didn’t the same problem happen at a N.R.A convention? All the the anti guns were trying to use it as propaganda against them and the N.R.A whipped around and said we will follow the rules of the establishment and if it says no open carry we will not have open carry?

  5. I concealed carried at the NRA convention in STL (despite the signs at the convention center) and I walked up to Mitt Romney (with his SS detail) and spoke to him. Never a problem

  6. The RNC is specifically a stupid place at which stupid things will be done by stupid people. On balance its a place to avoid like the plague.

  7. Maybe it is a false flag thing…

    From David Codrea at The War on Guns.
    Things That Make You Go ‘Hmmm…’
    We talked yesterday about that petition demanding open carry at the Republican convention. I still maintain it is a product of “progressives,” designed to exploit venue realities, to embarrass, and to engage in some good old-fashioned Alinsky Rule 5 ridicule.

    First, we don’t know who is behind it — the petition originator lists himself as “NA” and does not share his identity with anyone he doesn’t know. My hometown paper identifies the sponsor as “Americans for Responsible Open Carry,” a group I’ve never heard of that doesn’t appear to have any other sort of web presence.

    Go read the rest of it…
    David does his usual great research and commentary.

  8. On the fence. The left-wing extremists are planning black and Islamic/illegal immigrant riots to intimidate Republicans. (The fact that unassimilable immigrants hate America is a great argument for preventing them from coming here and ruining everything.)

    Most are just racist bullies who hate white people, capitalism, and individual freedom. They plan to harrass and provoke attendees, but want to get hit — not shot — on camera. Their backers, however, are wealthy terrorists who could be planning something evil.

    Thousands of disciplined, armed patriots stoicly exercising their rights could be a deterrent and a mesmirizing image on TV — or it could go sideways if the Soros crowd gets violent again.

    Mass immigration and media-inspired antiwhiteism has severely damaged America and threatened its freedoms. Americans need to organize to fight back politically, but instead they’re acting as individuals. As always.

    • You have no idea. There will be an avalanche of “killer cop” accquitals at the end of the year, just before the election. DOJ has even moved several of them back nearly a year, as if to make sure all of the cases are tried around the same time. Now consider how terrible the DOJ conviction rate is on these cases and you have your nationwide riots.

  9. You damned right people should be allowed to carry at the GOP convention, and the demoncrap convention! People should be allowed to carry any place there could possibly be a threat to the safety of their family, friends, neighbors, self, or any other person. Especially in a society such as ours (Amerikas) has become.

  10. Compromise, to ease the load on SS. OC or CC except for times while individuals under SS protection are scheduled to be present, then no carry. I am assuming that normal ops have screenings when those under SS are going to be present. If no screenings, carry however you wish.

    • “except for times while individuals under SS protection are scheduled to be present, then no carry.”

      Only those under SS protection deserve to defend their lives in case of ill action by evil people?

      • Well, I said screenings, I guess I was assuming a shorthand which doesn’t exist. My bad, let me try again. If the SS is going to be there protecting more than one person, I am assuming the whole area will be shut down, metal detectors, guards, fences, locks, the entire shitaree, you don’t need your personal .380, SS assumes responsibility for *everyone’s* safety.

        • “SS assumes responsibility for *everyone’s* safety.”

          In practice, they don’t. They protect the protectee(s), but the masses are on their own.

          How SS agents are there in a proportion to how big the crowd is? To think they could be “responsible” for everyone’s safety is

          (a) Unrealistic
          (b) Statism…agents of the state are not now, and never will be…”responsible” for individual safety.

  11. No. There are times when real security is called for, and a likely contentious convention with all those political leaders attending is probably one of those times. Assuming it is an enforced GFZ with pat-downs and metal detectors and legit security on site. It’s the un-enforced, sign-only, wishful-thinking GFZs that I have a problem with, post offices, schools, etc.

    • “There are times when real security is called for”

      By “real security” do mean “government trained and sanctioned?”

      Are you asserting an unsubstantiated assumption that the deterrent effect of OC is not “real security”? If so, do you propose to force all “real security” to carry concealed and otherwise be incognito so as to not be recognized as “real security” by those that would do harm?

      What is it about Open Carry by the proletariat gives you pause? Is it an assumption that people wish to carry solely to harm others?

      Here is some food for thought: If the convention is “contested” and color is up, why would a responsible citizen NOT want to carry there? The SS is tooled up to protect the politicians, not the citizens in attendance.

      By your logic, it seems everyone attending is a sitting duck except those directly protected by the ‘real security.’ Why not let each man be responsible for himself…a truly novel idea in contemporary America.

      • If they are allowing CC, then I see no reason to ban OC. I assumed no guns would be allowed, period. In that case, my expectation of “real security” is that if I’m not allowed to carry at a venue, then there are processes in place to ensure no one else is able to sneak a weapon in, and if there is any trouble, there are armed people there to respond immediately. Maybe not SS for the regular folks, but local LE or private security.

        I can always choose to not put my trust in those “processes” and not attend, but if I were running the event, I wouldn’t want to make it easy for an armed assassin to get one of those politicians under my care.

        • I haven’t been there to see, but the SS normally resists having the local police there armed, they want all guns to be SS. If they allow CC with protectees present, then by all means.

  12. It’s rather simple and we don’t have to bring 2A rights into it. It’s a safety issue, not a rights issue. Here’s the plain truth of the matter; too many guns increases the chances of something accidental happening. If there was a huge number of people carrying gas cans and lighters with no intention of starting a fire, it increases the risk of something happening, like a fire! At NRA conventions, all guns must be disabled that are on the floor, although depending on the local laws, it does not prevent people from carrying their personal weapon, contrary to the antis propaganda. At almost all indoor car and hot-rod shows, batteries in all vehicles most be disconnected. Why? To prevent fires and accidents, like cars being started and running over people.
    There needs to be ground we can give on and this is one. With the amount of armed professionals at a venue like the convention, who in gods name needs to carry their personal weapon? This really is common sense and we responsible gun nuts gun owners should recognize that the need for our personal weapons is for all practical purposes..zilch.
    We should display our responsibility for all to see by showing that we recognize this very fact and that thousands of guns on the floor increases the chances of something happening that brings unwanted negative attention.
    It’s also important to remember that our mental health system is a galactic failure. These type of venues bring nutter butters out of the woodwork. Personal guns should be left at home. This one really is common sense.

    • Gun safety = 4 rules.

      And attending a large convention of any sort unarmed is akin to trying to drive down the interstate with the battery of the car removed.

      • I would like to point out that Mlee mentioned….

        Gun Safety…

        If Law enforcement has guns why do you need them? …

        Mental healthcare…

        And common sense….

        All in one comment.

        • Yeah I sure did say those things! Want me to say them again?? The potential for something to go wrong in such a ridiculously high profile venue is far too great a risk to all gun owners everywhere and not just the people that want to walk around with their guns at the Republican Convention.

          Shannon Watts would be spreading cream cheese all over if some sort of accidental or otherwise unfortunate discharge occurred and that we just don’t need.

          Look at the bigger picture here. Not just law enforcement is going to have them, (guns) every conceivable agency you can think if is going to be there armed! Secret Service, FBI, NSA, DEA, ATF, local police and Sheriff, State Patrol, Marshals, Alvin and the Chipmonks…..need I go on? After close evaluation of that known fact, I find it incredulous that there are those that would still advocate the average Joe Blow to be armed.

          We gun owners have to protect what we have. We are under threat from that lying Hildabeast and other well known gun-grabbing low-life scum-bags. In my view, to best protect what we have from a very unfortunate situation from occurring is to leave your fu— guns at home. Embrace the concept that there’s more ways than one to further our objective and stop this linear thinking and consider a more non-linear approach.

        • So no guns, because “accidents happen”, and the pro-gun crowd can’t afford to taint their image… but when they happen elsewhere when the cameras aren’t rolling, no worries?

          Damn, 2Asux is going to have a field day with this thread.

        • I attend several large conventions a year that have very high security. I stay armed, and I don’t think much about it. Usually, I have to walk back to my car after the convention is over. One convention in particular is located in an area that has a high crime rate. It’s usually after 10:00 pm when I walk my family back to the car. In the dark. None of the security detail walk me to my car.

          I don’t worry much about that either, because I’m armed.

        • ” The potential for something to go wrong in such a ridiculously high profile venue is far too great a risk”

          Sounds like the exact same argument the anti’s say about any carry.

          But, you’ll say “My comment is different!” Yep. The only difference between you and the anti’s call for outright ban is YOU want to be the one to set where the line is. You are fine with ‘bans’ you agree with, which shows you don’t understand the concept of “individual liberty” at all. You just want to be the one making (or agreeing with) the rules.

    • I wear my gun for weeks at a time without ever touching it. If everyone knows what they are doing, there would be *NO* risk of anything accidental happening, even if every attendee were carrying multiple guns. The question of the SS has nothing to do with accidents.

    • >> Here’s the plain truth of the matter; too many guns increases the chances of something accidental happening.

      Oh? Why don’t we extend it to all other places where there are too many people that letting all carry would produce “too many guns”? Like, say, public transit in most large cities?

  13. Won’t matter. The “Q” is owned by the Gateway Economic Development Corp, whose board members are appointed by the city and county governments. Cleveland and Cuyahoga county are both entreched Democratic strongholds. The Republicans have little say in the issue, as it will likely be the decision of the venue (run by very anti-gun Democrats, the kind that get upset when you out bid them at gun buybacks). Most of the other smaller convention halls are either the same type of government run non-profit or are outright owned by the city. If you’re of the concealed is concealed persuasion, I went to a Cavs game last week and had to empty my pockets and go through a metal detector. So that won’t work either.

  14. It is my understanding that conventions usually involve an unending stream of alcohol fueled parties among the delegates, while the real business of the convention (such as hammering out the platform) is conducted behind closed doors. Alcohol and guns do not mix, so assuming what I have been told is true, then no, carrying of guns is probably very unwise. All it takes is one drunk idiot.

  15. Yes, but no. Only because the first AD will be headlines news and I don’t doubt that a Lib would take the misdemeanor hit to do it. It would be the only thing on TV on for the week.

  16. Suck a click-baity title. The majority of people signing the petition aren’t “gun lovers”, but democrats HOPING and wishing that an innocent person is harmed.

    Talk about evil.

    • A scientific perspective would implore testing the hypothesis, that higher concentration of gun ownership would make everyone safer – which many pro-gun people on the right often claim.

      Testing it in a place where such advocates gather en masse would seem quite appropriate to me.

  17. Nope. Nope. Nope.

    Firstly the video stated “even though Ohio is an open carry state…” — I am not sure what that has to do with guns at the convention.
    I live NE of Cleveland and even though Ohio is an open carry state, very few do so for all the normal reasons: 1) you become a target of bad guys if a situation arises; 2) some freaked out liberal usually calls the cops and they have to respond pain in the ass for all concerned, except the asshole who called), 3) many private establishments post no guns signs, 4) etc.. etc..

    Yes, I carry every time I leave to house, but I do not open carry. I also don’t leave my wiener sticking out the front of my pants, but I can get to either to do my business as required.

    Back to the convention and the question of guns in the convention. Nope Nope Nope.

    The Center where the convention is being held is a privately owned facility that is rented out and they dictate the terms of gun carry and they have said no, notta. The Federal government does not own the venue.

    Cleveland itself has historically been at loggerheads with the States AG office and carry groups, trying to dictate regulations and that are not inline with state law. The city and immediate surrounding urban population area is definitely liberal, and predominately low-income Urban, and my guess is the attraction of Soros funded riots may draw in (bus in) the worst — the city will be waiting. Security is probably job one for this event. IMO the chances of violence, a major violent event, agent provocateurs, etc. in this liberal city are really good.

    I would definitely carry a gas mask.

    This may be one of the most heated conventions in the history of the GOP. Some of these political hacks are out of control to begin with and physical exchanges are not rare. Who knows the convention could turn into a bar brawl. (It would be nice to watch IMO) Stir in a few thousand carry guns, and who amoung us would want to be on that security detail?

    Mix the internal strife (aka Republitard BS) with the external Libertard low income-limited brain capacity protests (a.k.a. George Soros funded collectivist riots) outside and surrounding the convention there is all sorts of room for disaster to play out. I personally wouldn’t go near downtown Cleveland during the convention.

    The state and city have already arranged for the National Guard to be present. This statement to some means nothing, but in Ohio it carries some historic negative connotations (Kent State massacre). Even during the 9/11 attacks when almost all other states had National Guard at airports in Ohio the Governor did not bring them out.

    This whole thing could cook up into a steaming soup of crap. I will start making the popcorn days prior.

    If I was attending the convention I would ask for a SECURE GUN CHECK to be made available at or near the convention, so I could carry to and from the convention. But then again if your a visitor (as most will be) where are you going to carry to — most of the hotels don’t allow firearms either.

    • “But then again if your a visitor (as most will be) where are you going to carry to — most of the hotels don’t allow firearms either.”

      The hotels can pound sand. But I wouldn’t be there anyway.

    • “you become a target of bad guys if a situation arises; “

      Citation, as they say, Needed.

      Typical progressive-esque tautology…assume a statement (or position) is true, then use it as a justification to show it’s true.

      “Our side” can do better than this. We are supposed to be the ones with “logic and facts” on our side.

      • Not certain what “R side” means. I carry daily, shoot tactical sport, 3-gun, range time 4-8 times a month, NRA member, individual US Citizen. Don’t see myself as a collectivist — so I will stick to the side of the law and common sense .

        Note — when I say “I believe” or IMO (in my opinion), no citation is required — its my reality, regardless of national statistical data.

        The laws (as infringing as they may be to the 2nd) and common sense withstanding, the “R-Siders” wont be happy with any argument that attempts to question your position unless its a multi-year multi-city statistical study documented by the NRA-ILA/GOA. So lets just call it what it is — an ongoing debate. But I believe, just like hyperinflation its a psychological and mental issue not an issue based on projected numbers. But if its numbers you want, just refer to the percentage of people on prescription drugs in this country — esp. psychotropic drugs — now add firearm.

        First off, in general theoretical terms (and via statistical data – citation needed) I do believe that an armed society is a polite society. But there are people I have met that shouldn’t be carrying IMO, because I believe they pose a potential safety risk, so when I see a handgun I think of those lowest denominator types of gun owners, not the responsible ones.

        I see a guy (stranger) in shabby clothes carrying at my town square during the annual local fair, and 60% of my focus goes on him and his actions, his mental state, and what he is saying. I also prepare myself for defensive confrontation toward his direction if there is any sign of threat toward me or mine. This same fellow, I come to find, has been stopped and questioned by LEs numerous times, so perhaps he is one of the dedicated “R side” guys out getting his “jobs worth”? A Sheriff’s deputy followed him around and monitored him that day — waste of resource — not because the guy was necessarily a threat but because others were threatened. So I guess it was better to give him his own private security detail then to have to respond to 200 calls that day.

        Open carry makes you a target – “citation needed”
        Citation: Geauga County Sheriff: Nov. 2015, Jan 2016 via phone. (No multi-year study cited… just 30+ years of LE)
        Citation: US Federal Special Officer (active): Via email sent along with phone pic he took of an “R-side” guy pumping gas. Pic was taken at night from 3 feet behind him with gun in full view on his right side, while he pumped gas with his right hand while facing the car. paraphrasing “I could have just drew his weapon. This is why people should not open carry” (No multi-year study cited… just 10+ years of Military service and training at Quantico)
        Citation: USCCA

        Sorry I am not aware of a multi-year, multi-city study and statistical fact list.

        Common sense tells me when I see someone open carrying my focus goes out for at least a few seconds to try and read the persons demeanor, state of mind, level of intellect, and how much breakfast and beer are on the front of his sweat shirt. I know of people, and have seen irresponsible people at the range, that I would ban from owning guns entirely if it was in my power to do so.

        Just because someone is (concealed or) open carrying does not mean they are a threat, but it doesn’t mean they are NOT a threat either (incl. Cops, …esp. Cops.). Do they know and practice the basic rules of gun safety (esp. “know what is behind your target”?). How often do they practice, and are they just shooting defenseless paper from a bench twice a year at the range, or are they able to safely operate a weapon in a stressful situation?

        The difference with open carry is that you are aware that a carrying individual openly has a tool that can be used as a deadly weapon from a distance. So I look at and listen to the person and ask the questions mentioned above to myself. 9/10 times I believe that other than shooting cans or deer hunting 1-3 times a year there prob is no practice.

        I causes me to take notice. If that doesn’t cause you to take any notice or do assessment — at least for a few seconds — then what does situational awareness even mean? When I walk into Home Depot, I (prob correctly) assume that 8/10 contractors walking the isles are carrying — just like I am. I assess them all.

  18. No, too much risk for assassination. BUT that is only contingent on secret service/police securing of entrances including metal detectors and people who know how to use them.

    If you can’t do the second, then yes, might as well allow guns.

  19. An open carry friendly RNC would give the LibDem media great visuals. Every single report would show people walking around with holstered cocked and locked 1911’s or AR’s with 30 round magazines slung over the shoulder. This convention would be covered like the 1968 GOP convention, but with guns. Believe it or not a large segment of the voting public would not get a favorable impression from an open carry friendly convention. Flamers – please restrain yourselves.

    • “Believe it or not a large segment of the voting public would not get a favorable impression from an open carry friendly convention.”

      Maybe my crystal ball is right and yours is not. Forecasting the future is a fools game on the best of days.

      Here’s what mine says: If nothing “happened,” no one would care.

      What is intriguing to me is the number of self-identifying PotG are willing to concede that the mere sight of a firearm is a REAL problem. That guns are “icky;” that guns, themselves, as inanimate objects, are the real concern.

      A holstered firearm is not “bad visuals.”

      Consider it this way: What if the event does allow OC and nothing happens. What is the message to the ‘fence sitters’ then? “Look, all those holstered guns and NOTHING BAD HAPPENED!”

      All the hand twisting over this, as an abstraction, is just a variant of “blood in the streets.” It is astounding just how deeply we’ve let the Progressive Freedom Haters frame the language of not only this debate, but of our culture at large.


      Yep. And, the sky is falling, too, and the sea levels have rising 600 ft in the last 5 years. Doom and gloom is their business; logic, facts and rationality…we CLAIM…are ours. I’m beginning to wonder about that last…

  20. Given Ohio is an Open Carry State and given that certain groups have pledged to disrupt the RNC Convention who could also avail themselves of Open Carry, there might be an accelerated risk of gun-involved violence erupting. Even if the rented building is “Gun Free” what goes on in the streets outside could go out of control.
    What we opine about the matter here is pointless. Ohio IS an Open Carry State, so whoever chooses to can Open Carry in the vicinity of the Convention whether we support the idea or not.
    CP who commented above, seems to live in the area and his idea that there needs to be a secure gun check-in/storage at the Convention Entrance is very sound. There is likely to be some degree of tension around the outside. It might behoove Gov Kasich to call out his National Guard to assist the Cleveland PD and Sheriff from the start.
    Personally, I do not care either way, but I do think it likely some of the lefty lunatics that are planning to “demonstrate” in Cleveland will try to escalate matters to violence, and THEY can bring guns in Ohio.

  21. I’m just a an ardent fan of OC in the first place, so you’ll never hear me claim it’s not a good idea. That being said, I wouldn’t go to the convention even if I had the money to go.


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