http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNg3zhoP3e0
“Violence shattered a wintry Saturday morning at a popular suburban mall here when a gunman shot and killed two employees of a skateboarding shop, sending panicked shoppers into hiding,” wsj.com reports. “The suspected gunman was later found dead near a shotgun and ammunition, police said. His victims were a man and a woman, both in their 20s, Howard County Police Chief Bill McMahon said at a late afternoon news conference.” “Later” as in two minutes after the police received the first 911 call alerting them that an active shooter was on the premises. Two minutes . . .
Enough time for the shooter to kill two people with a shotgun. Apparently, he had “a great deal of ammunition.” How many more people could he have killed in 120 seconds? Plenty. How long would it take an armed civilian to stop a shooter from taking innocent life? That depends on a number of variables. But without any immediate ballistic intervention, even a two-minute response time isn’t enough. Ipso facto. And that’s in a mall that’s prepared for just such an event.
Apparently, it was some sort of domestic situation. If he meant to go a bigger spree, there is, as of now, no indication of it. Maybe the speedy arrival of the cops ruined his plans. No se.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/01/robert-farago/seconds-count-police-hour-half-away/
Just out of curiousity, since yet again it seems like another article criticizing the police, what is an acceptable response time? (Without the benefit of the tactical crystal ball)
This is not a criticism of police. That cops will rush to and then into a potential active shooter situation is to their eternal credit. (Remember, it was a LEO who ended the Arapahoe shooting.)
This is a criticism of the anti-gun policymaker mindset that “the police will protect you, so you don’t need a gun.”
Simultaneous post!
Well said.
He wasn’t criticizing the cops. The point is that even two minutes is too long if you’re the one getting shot at and you can’t shoot back because you’re not armed. Get it?
No spree, no AR-15. Non story in the media’s mind. Shannon Watts and her band of merry ghouls will flog this as long as they can for their 130,000 Fb followers and that will be that.
I have boycotted CTD and Dick’s since Sandy Hook, when both businesses deserted we shooters, the RTKBA, and The 2nd. Sorry, but if a business blinks even once in the face of the anti-gunners, they lose me for LIFE.
It’s time that all we gunners realize, that when it comes to defending the 2nd, this is war. This not for the meek.
Not far west from that Alabama Welcome Center on I-10, the Mississippi Welcome Center on I-10 near the Louisiana border had paper signs on each door to the center and restroom entrances that said basically the same thing. “No weapons allowed on this property” with the image of a pistol and a knife in the ubiquitous red circle with a slash.
I felt unwelcome at the “Welcome” center.
This almost sounds like common sense gun control.
There’s some thinking involved, outside of the much-favored emotions. I think it’s a good start.
Head shot would do the job no matter what. 🙂
Long sorry
I’m old enough to have seen rifles in the back windows of pickup trucks in high school, in metropolitan (San Jose) CA no less. But today if I carried model rocket engines around in my pocket like I did back then, I’ll bet they’d call HMS on me and threaten to send me to GITMO! This is Un-friggin-believable how out of control it’s all gotten.
As I see it, this as all about control. I believe the kids today have a moral compass that’s more or less the same as it’s always been. They know right from wrong, but will still do stupid things, they are kids after all. But when you factor in the population increase of approx. 25 million kids under 20 (US Census Bur.) since I was in HS, you get an appropriate increase of kids doing stupid stuff. Then if you factor in the increased visibility of stupid kids today with YouTube, Facebook, and other social media, etc. you’re going to end up with more kids trying to out do each other on the stupidity scale. With the vast majority of those being of the male persuasion I might add.
In my youth unless it was on the nightly news, I/we never heard of what another teen was doing all the way across the country, nor did we care. The one-up-man-ship never took off and we were more or less relegated to repeat what stupid stuff our dad and granddad’s did when they were our age. With some of us taking it to different but new levels, but I digress.
As parents most of the time do, we’ve forgotten what it was like to be that young. Oh we say we remember but do we really? The day to day struggles have most assuredly faded leaving only the high and low points to punctuate our collective memories. But our kids don’t have that luxury, or curse. Their every exploit is documented and categorized in video and text for perpetuity. So to be good parents we try and relate to our kids sharing benign stories of our youth (leaving out the juicy ones, after all there’s no video proof) and sharing only our good deeds. As if this were enough to turn the media tide of stupid. An onslaught that our kids receive on an hourly basis. It’s not, it wont ever be. Thankfully only a handful of our kids succumb to the most egregious of these stupid behaviors.
But principals, supervisors and school boards etc. often forgetting where they came from, try to keep stupid (no pun intended) from happening, and out of our kids schools. Which would normally be a good thing except that it’s taken to absurd levels all in the name of controlling the students. They go overboard passing more rules and laws pushing a PC agenda (on many subjects) that dismisses common sense. This creates an environment of paranoia for both the kids and their parents. And allows for an overreaction at the slightest provocation to take place that is devoid of recognizing a stupid behavior for what it truly is, and not some heinous crime.
School boards like any form of govt. cannot control everything as much as they would like. Though varying degrees of control can be obtained, absolute control is an illusion. When I saw my first Walk/Don’t Walk sign is when recognized that govt. was trying to control everything. I remember thinking at the time, WTF if someone is dumb enough to walk across when cars are coming, they deserve to get their a** run over. You can’t fix stupid. But they forever try to legislate it. As witnessed by the forty billion (figurative, probably more) laws enacted since I first saw that sign and it’s only gone downhill since then.
Since control is an illusion and you can’t fix stupid, as it either degrades with time or natural selection takes care of it, then less govt. in our lives must be the real solution. Now, anyone want a handgun Pop-Tart?
I used to go to gun buy backs to see what was being turned in. If I found something good I would buy it as i private sale. Most of what is being turned in is junk but you never know.
Gun “buy back” is indeed a misnomer given the fact that these guns were not purchased from those sponsoring these “buy back” programs. In reality these “buy backs” are “compensated confiscation”.
Jesus…it’s always sad and maddening to see how some have a total disregard for human life.
Hey guys, dont get too wrapped around the axle about cops being exempt to some of the red tape that these socialist states are implementing. Take CT, for example: Not only are LEOs exempt from High Cap Mags, gun registration, etc., but active military members are also exempt.
Now, being a Libertarian and hating cops is one thing, BUT to also penalize our fighting heroes who, I think we could ALL agree, deserve EVERY break,……well, that just makes you a Democrat!
This shows exactly the thing that most people do not understand – they do not just want to rob you. They not only have no concern for human life, especially your life, but that one guy just took pleasure in continuing to kick the guy in the head just for the fvck of it. Knock-out game? you might come away with a headache and some bruises, if you’re lucky. Knock out and then kick you in the head four or five times just for shits and giggles – YOW!
Liberal gun grabbers think that deadly force should not be used against someone trying to rob you. I guess they never saw anything like this. But then again, it probably wouldn’t change their mind (confirmation bias).
The sad part is that the mayor and city council of NYC were actually elected by the voters of that jurisdiction. A majority of those people are as deluded about un-Constitutional firearms laws, regulations, and policies as Neville Chamberlain was about Hitler. The only thing that penetrates the Alice in Wonderland veneer of unreality that surrounds them are the lethal weapons of criminals. Even then, many of them would still rather be defenseless drones in a mindless hive than accept the fact that we are all responsible for our own self defense.
Sure it does. A fella there to steal dosen’t give a hot s**t ’bout the law. He/she knows you ain’t holding, so game on.
He defended himself and his property from thieves??? IMPURE!!!!
Being a thief in the UK sounds safe and profitable.
Overhead squats are overrated. Gimmie good old overhead press and back squats
I think UK voters are simply torn. Without guns, the lower-class yobs abuse them. They do have to fear, though, that if pistols and self-defense are once again made legal, the upper class will start whimsically shooting peasants again.
Not an easy choice. And the royals, the nobility, have such pretty clothes and horses. What is the poor little middle class to do? [Statistical note: Outside of Greater London fully 50% of the adults are either on welfare or work for the government. To translate, that’s fully 50% of the voters outside Greater London.]
“Ocean Springs (Oh-shun Springs).”
LOL! Like reading Dave Barry on a Saturday Night! 😉
The gun debate. Shoot with what you train with. You can be tactically efficient with what ever you pick up and learn how to use by training with it. Sometimes it seems like people spend to much time having fantasy shootouts in their head and debating what is better than this or that instead of just practicing. If you like a glock, shoot one. You like a revolver, shoot one. 1911.. shoot one. If you are good, you might dispatch someone with a shot or two under pressure. Just remember “there is no such thing as rising to the occasion. One only defaults to their level of training.”
It’s a good, common-sense measure, and the police departments should get more out of it than if they were just selling it for scrap.
Most buyback guns are junk, but part of the reason for that is that I know some folks who have scored some nice deals on non-junk just outside of these events. Why get $50 from the South Bend PD or whomever, when this fella is offering you $100 or $150 for that pistol?
Hell better South Bend PD than Mishawaka or Elkhart. Those guys are a bunch of A holes just because they went to the same high school together. At least in south bend you can talk your way with them haha
Best tests I’ve seen – looking forward to more of them!
Not really related, but since we’re talking about access to online info…
I spent the last half of December, then the past two weeks in the hospital, and apparently my heart problems have reached the stage where this is going to be a pretty regular thing from now on. What I’ve discovered is that the WiFi I depend on for Internet access is heavily censored on the subject of firearms, as well as other areas of interest (no, I’m not talking about porn!). I’ve complained repeatedly about this, with no response other than a bland apology for the “inconvenience”. For some reason this doesn’t affect TTAG, thank goodness, but I all I get are off limits notices if I try to look at most other gun blogs and websites.
I can’t afford to buy a 4G capable computer, so that’s out. Has anyone else run into this issue? Does anyone know how to do an end run around this nonsense using an IPad?
To show how silly this is, one of the other verboten items is anything written by Hunter S. Thompson!
Joining “the national conversation about guns”, huh? Typically, that “conversation” has been one-sided. Conducted principally by people who don’t own guns, don’t know anything about guns, don’t know anybody who owns guns and, therefore, have a bigoted view of who they are. What little they do know is wrong. They don’t like guns and they don’t like gun owners. They will dismiss his columns as biased and anecdotal.
Yes, I have prejudices too but I’m aware of them and I have much on which to base them.
Excellent article. You really understand that citizen armed self defense is not infantry combat or police action. I wonder where you would place the Beretta Nano or the new Pico in the hierarchy.
My personal preference is for full sized pistols and a compact at a minimum; but we do own a Nano for those occasion’s the preclude carrying a larger gun. I do disagree that caliber is less important in short range self defense scenarios. You have less time to inflict enough damage to stop the attack. You may only have one shot before your attacker is on you. You also have to consider the psychological effect of an attacker staring down the barrel of a full sized combat pistol. Our objective is stop the bad guy before you are forced to pull the trigger. It takes a brave man to look down the barrel of full sized 1911 and stand his ground. Street thugs aren’t all that brave.
Whatever the case, cost should never be weighed against what you intend to benefit
in the long run. The very first thing to look at is the school’s accreditation. The current thrust is in developing the interests of more students to gain college
education as a way to better one’s self.
In a recent study, the majority of kids ages 12-15 are spending their
summer days in front of the computer, watching movies and television, and shopping at the malls.
One has to wonder how Kenya’s fitness DVD has become such a huge hit in Japan.
Boxing exercise in intervals and with high intensity is the key to lightening
fast results.