I know, seems like an old headline right? Remember back in May when there was a story about the Army banning PMAGs? Turns out the Marine Corps has decided to follow suit and has issued an order banning the use of polymer PMAGs. From the Marine Corps Times:
Polymer rifle magazines, preferred by many combat troops for their durability, have been banned by the Marine Corps, according to a new administrative message published Monday.
Naturally, this announcement comes on the heels of Magpul finally shipping their new Gen M3 PMAGs, which they’ve gone and spent much time and ink proving to be superior to the USGI magazine in every way shape and form.
Effective immediately, only standard-issue 5.56mm metal magazines are approved, according to the message, signed by Lt. Gen. Richard Mills, the Marine Corps’ deputy commandant for combat development and integration. They have a 30-round capacity with either tan, green or black followers, the internal plate that pushes rounds into a rifle’s chamber.
For those who aren’t aware, the Marine Corps (and the military in general) only really ever update the followers in the magazines, and even then only when a new design is vastly superior for reliability or whatever. They differentiate the designs by the color of the plastic material they are made out of, so a soldier can quickly check their magazines and ensure that they have the latest and greatest.
What’s the reason behind this ban on Tupperware in their firearms? Compatibility, of course.
Marine officials began ad hoc bans on polymer magazines last year, citing concerns over their lack of compatibility with select weapons. The new message from Mills, who doubles as the commanding general of Marine Corps Combat Development Command, makes the ban official across the force.
Its completely true. The standard PMAG doesn’t work well in the HK 416 or many other NATO issue firearms, which is why Magpul came out with the EMAG. Their latest generation (the Gen M3s) is compatible with even more firearms than the EMAG was, but apparently that’s still not good enough for the Marine Corps brass.
With the roll-out of the new M27 IAR, the Corps’ return to BAR-style support gunners instead of the M240, the corps has had to be a little more strict about the magazines. Made by the same company as the HK 416, it has the same picky attitude about magazines as its little brother and won’t reliably feed or let standard PMAGs even seat properly.
H&K hates you and your magazines suck.
The worry among the officials is that the support gunners will run out of ammo and need a spare mag from an infantryman, who will hand them a PMAG and then jam the gun. A legitimate concern in a firefight, when lives are on the line. There’s some chance that Magpul’s new Gen M3 magazine will be super compatible and sway the top brass’ opinions, but then again this is the military we’re talking about.
Magpul fanboys both in and outside the Corps are already being heard whinging about the decision, downplaying the likelihood of the situation of concern happening. However, having seen an HK 416 choke on a PMAG in person, I’d be cautious about claiming the superiority of the magazine before additional testing is performed.
Naturally this has to put a kink in Magpul’s plans to dominate the extremely lucrative magazine market among the military, but given the rate at which they’re selling out in the civilian and law enforcement market I don’t think they’ll have any issues about cash flow. In the short term, at least.
[Thanks to Lance for the tip!]
And it works well as a field expedient laser pointer for PowerPoint presentations.
I know this is late in the post. With my time in the military both in combat and training I have had no issues with the USGI issue metal magazines. Also by most specs the military requires a standard metal to metal latch point for any magazine I can think of for durability issues during to impacts and heat. In the sands of OIF and OEF any mag PMAG, EMAG, or metal issue mag all will require occasional cleaning. I use the Pmags often and find they work well… In a perfect world, combat is far from that. Given a combat situation I would want metal mags. If you notice one thing in any firearm selected for use or trial (minus some spec op orders) they all have metal mags and metal mag catches when if they have a polymer coating it’s still metal on metal. Also the wear cuased by a steel mag catch on a polymer mag is fairly rapid once sand and heat is added. And this reasoning has been proven time and time again with Glock mag failures in hot environments by many contractors. I can see how a Pmags may fail while being stored in a hot vehicle or similar situation where it may wrap or separate. There is a lot to be said about visible spot welded metal mags vs. Glued polymer. Not to mention the polymer mags are much larger than its metal counterparts.
Oh no their M27 doesn’t work with these new mags??? They should never have bought it. Abandoning real machine guns for rapid fire rifles is exactly what the Army did 50 years ago in Vietnam. Of course they never gave up machine guns.
Personally I don’t care about the brand of magazine I use as long as it’s reliable and affordable. I’ll keep stockpiling PMAGS in 308. If I get in a tight spot I won’t call the marines.
the Armed services should have junked the M16 and Variants a long time ago! supposedly the smaller bullets mean you can carry more ammo
so now you add the weight of more magazine To feed your spray and pray, along comes a foreign designed weapon which won’t feed from good old American Magazines, typical BS from Higher Higher! just like Nam ask any Grunt that trained on the M14 which rifle he preferred! Oh but the General wouldn’t be able to get a high paying job with a non US arms dealer if he didn’t Hawk there wears! So instead of making the Arms dealer change their specs, he screws the Grunt! Sig Heil Mein Fuhrer! Ours is not to reason why ours is to do or die Semper Fi!
Please put ANTI-TILT Follower’s in those crappy mags for our men and women fighting for us!
I still use a pmag I ran over in my truck nuff said
They can’t have an issue where PMAGs start breaking while feeding and jamming rifles in a fire fight. Granted, it can happen with GI metal mags as well. However, using unauthorized mags opens a can of worms where families will start trying to sue for their son/daughter/husband/wife/father/mother died because the command didn’t stop them from using unauthorized mags.
It’s a weapon compatability issue. They ordered some machine guns from HK? FNH? And they made the magwells not work with standard Magpul magazines. I honestly believe this is the stupidest oversight on behalf of the folks who processed the contract. Magpul of course makes Nato spec mags but due to the amount of magazines that are specifically for the M16/4 The divisions can’t take the risk of mixing maguls that could get troops killed. The Marines will not be using them and there will be no violating policy or some Marines might get killed.
All this over a fast .22, the military needs something like a .270 Winchester in a shorter case, in a platform with some of the KRISS recoil reduction engineering.
Not to worry for those who are only going to use PMAGS in a platform proven to accept them. In a squad deployment, for instance, when on patrol or similar mission, Marines who aren’t carrying one of the weapons that won’t accept a PMAG, but are carrying M4s, etc will probably take their PMAGS (of any generation) with them, regardless of what some pencil pushing general has to say 😉
wow… In RVN I carried 21 Aluminum 20 round mags. I have no idea who made them. I carried an additional 21 bandoleers of ammunition – 5.56. 20 rounds each. I never had an issue with these magazines. I have used maqpul magazines for years with no issue. I also now use surefire magazines with 100 round capacity and again have never had an issue with semi or full auto. WTF is the problem with anything that works??? Like others have posted, if you make a firearm that I am supposed to use in combat and you intentionally design it to not work with an accepted magazine, you should be tried for murder if it fails in combat…
I agree with most of what you say, with the exception of liability. I have never had issues with military 30rd magazines. I use Magpul and never had issues and I have first gen, second, and third. The only mags I have had issues with are steel aftermarket mags, and cheap foreign made junk. I’ve had them bow under pressure and even break at spot welds. They were all gifted to me, luckily I tested them prior to assuming they were reliable. One wouldn’t drop free, another insert properly. Any milspec mags made to mil tech specs are fine. There’s a bunch of great mags out but you can’t beat standard military aluminum teflon coated mags with magpul followers. I use magpuls because they don’t clank around as much as aluminum. I’ve done my own cold weather tests on my magpuls and they survived but I do have my reservations given I live in a region where the temperature can drop to – 20 or more in the mountains. Liability should be the fault of the individual who contracted the guns from a foreign manufacturer who has made the magwell incompatible with non Nato mags. It’s not HKs fault or whichever European manufacturer, it’s the fault of the person who authorized the weapon. They should modify the weapons to work with the magazines and make lemonade out of lemons. And in the future learn from the mistake. Magpul has been very facilitating and responsive from this debacle and that shows class. Ill stick with Magpul.
I have used both GI and Pmag magazines. Both work well. I did switch out the GI mags to no-tilt followers recently for no reason beyond being able to do so. Due to health issues I’ve not tested them. The followers are Magpul, and I trust they will work. Before that I did NOT have problems with them. I used hundreds of 20 round GI mags. I did under load rile, pistol and SMG mags. 20 rd. to 18, Glock 17 to 15 and MP5 to 25. The most troublesome magazines were in M1911s.
I tried a couple pmags from magpul in 7.62x39mm and they were junk, they’d try to double feed rounds or rounds wouldn’t feed at all, and magpul wouldn’t replace them. So I won’t buy anything else from magpul again.
Ha and now five years later the Marine Corps orders a million pmags completely going back on this article. Awesome.