Credit card gun control
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On Friday, the International Organization for Standards announced that it had approved a new merchant category code for gun retailers. In other words, the ISO caved to longstanding pressure brought by the gun control industry and politicians including a group of US Senators to create the new code.

The ISO’s announcement was quickly followed by announcements from Visa, MasterCard and American Express that they would begin to use the new code to segregate gun store purchases. The big credit card companies had previously resisted pressure from gun control groups to segregate gun store transactions, but gave in when the ISO established the code.

As the AP reports . . .

…the decision by Visa, the world’s largest payment processor, will likely provoke the ire of gun rights advocates and gun lobbyists, who have argued that categorizing gun sales would unfairly flag an industry when most sales do not lead to mass shootings. It joins Mastercard and American Express, which also said they plan to move forward with categorizing gun shop sales.

Visa said it would adopt the International Organization for Standardization’s new merchant code for gun sales, which was announced on Friday. Until Friday, gun store sales were considered “general merchandise.”

“Following ISO’s decision to establish a new merchant category code, Visa will proceed with next steps, while ensuring we protect all legal commerce on the Visa network in accordance with our long-standing rules,” the payment processor said in a statement.

Visa’s adoption is significant as the largest payment network, and with Mastercard and AmeEx, will likely put pressure on the banks as the card issuers to adopt the standard as well. Visa acts as a middleman between merchants and banks, and it will be up to banks to decide whether they will allow sales at gun stores to happen on their issued cards.

This is a big step in the gun control industry’s long push to privatize much of gun control after years of being frustrated at the federal level and, most recently, by the Supreme Court’s Bruen ruling.

In their fever dreams, the Civilian Disarmament Industrial Complex envisions a vast surveillance system that will scrutinize and report on “suspicious” gun purchasing activity. They’ve sold this thinly-veiled anti-gun initiative as a way for banks to cooperate with police to stop mass shootings and gun trafficking.

From Michael Bloomberg’s Everytown . . .

“Today’s announcement is a critical first step towards giving banks and credit card companies the tools they need to recognize dangerous firearm purchasing trends – like a domestic extremist building up an arsenal — and report them to law enforcement,” said John Feinblatt, president of Everytown for Gun Safety. “But this is only the first step. Now it’s vital that merchants and banks implement this code swiftly, before more guns end up in the wrong hands.”

“These new merchant codes will help banks and financial institutions track suspicious and potentially illegal gun purchases,” said Shannon Watts, founder of Moms Demand Action. “It takes all of us to tackle our gun violence epidemic which is why we’re grateful for Amalgamated Bank’s leadership in this effort and call for all other banks and financial institutions to follow suit.”

There are more than a few problems with this, however. First, who will get the new code? Bob’s Gun Shop down the street almost surely will. But what about Bass Pro Shops? How about Academy Sports?

Second, the merchant code won’t be used only for gun purchases. It will be used for all charges by retailers identified as gun sellers. So if you buy a flat of shotgun shells for dove season or a new scope for your deer rifle, those transactions will be blended in with everything else processed by your local gun store. The code won’t provide item level detail.

Third, the gun control industry and their friends in the federal government expect banks to scrutinize purchases and report anything “suspicious” to the proper law enforcement authorities. Banks are wholly ill-equipped to do anything approaching that on a consistent and reliable basis.

Keep in mind that they won’t have item-level detail in these charge transactions. They won’t be able to tell the difference between one purchase of 15 GLOCK 19s from another transaction of the same amount for a Beretta 687 shotgun. And banks won’t be able to sift and sort magazine, optics and ammo purchases from transactions for firearms.

That brings us to the final problem; signal to noise. Banks will set up algorithms to flag supposedly suspicious transactions or buying patterns. They’ll then report them to police. But that will likely mean tens or even hundreds of thousands of reports every year. Police won’t be able to sort through all of the garbage to find anything that will be actionable on the tiny number of transactions that may be worth following up on.

And then there will be the response by gun buyers. Most will continue to buy the way they always have. That’s because most — meaning over 99% — are perfectly legal.

Others, also legal purchasers, but those who don’t want anyone reviewing their transaction histories, will either spread purchases over a number of cards or, more likely, buy strictly with cash. They’ll consider the move by the banks to be a pseudo registry and choose not to participate.

They will, of course, be right. The goal here is to create a public-private partnership to monitor the gun-buying activities and habits of as many Americans as possible.

In the end, the code itself and its initial use won’t affect or inconvenience America’s gun owners much, if at all. At least for now.

But this is a first step toward a larger surveillance system that’s ultimately aimed at controlling and deplatforming as many aspects of the firearms industry as possible. It could also be used to isolate and “other-ize” firearms owners while limiting or cutting off their access to guns through the channels they’ve become accustomed to.

Meanwhile, cash is still legal. Expect to see far more people in your local gun store pulling out a wad of samolians when it’s time to pay for their purchases. Oh, and an 3D printer is less than the cost of a Taurus G3.

 

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140 COMMENTS

    • Can’t/won’t happen, at least not completely. Tourist locations such as Las Vegas rely on customers putting a $20 bill into a slot machine. Roadside stands and craft fairs, mom and pop stores…heck, every time the local power goes out or a store’s telephone line drops, no EFT/ACH transactions can be made and cash is readily accepted. Just recently, my usual gas station had its AT&T line drop for a few hours, and put up a “Sorry, Cash Only” sign on the entry door. I always pay cash for fuel and most other simple daily expenses, so I was good to go.

      Here in CA, our fearless leaders have blocked the development of viable power sources for the past four decades, and we’re now experiencing rotating blackouts each summer due to overloading our aging grid. Add to that the fact that small gas motors (lawnmowers, chainsaws) will be banned from sale starting 2023, and even generators soon after that, and even cars a few years after that(!), our grid will suffer and go out all the time. Even in CA, cash will remain in use.

      The best thing government can do is absolutely nothing, and get out of the way.

      • “Can’t/won’t happen, at least not completely.”

        Might be a bit hasty, there. USG removed gold from circulation in the 1930s, removed “gold certificate” paper money (replaced by “federal reserve note), eliminated silver coins as a common means of exchange, moved the country off the gold standard.

        Transition to digital currency will be a bit messy, but it will happen.

        • Don’t forget, though, that there is an entire government bureau of engraving and printing. Also, the closest thing to eternal life (in this world) is a government program.

          Cash is going nowhere.

      • “Can’t/won’t happen”
        “Roadside stands and craft fairs, mom and pop stores”

        Since when does the government worry about small business? Remember Covid Insanity? They gleefully destroyed small businesses. Do you think the government likes cash businesses? They just doubled the size of the IRS workforce. Show me a single citizen that was asking for that. The IRS gave an example of a crackdown to the media (CBS maybe). They were going after a landscaping company, not some major corporation.

        We’re on an authoritarian trajectory, not just in this country, but in the entire Western World. They’d love to have control over our money. How else are they going to be sure we’re behaving like good little serfs?

        • “They just doubled the size of the IRS workforce“

          Have you any evidence to support the claim, I would appreciate reading more about this.

        • They approved the funding to double it, Miner. I know you aren’t that out of touch. Your sealioning routine is stale.

          And the border is secure, right? When you were young, did you ever dream about growing up to be such a disingenuous person?

        • “They approved the funding to double it, Miner.“

          Many people are making this claim, but I haven’t been able to find any evidence that the IRS doubled their workforce.

          What are you basing your statement on?

        • Fine, here you go. I’m done holding your hand, Miner. You’ll never be able to make it on your own as long as you have me to fall back on. I’m not being mean. It’s called tough love. Here’s a link and some relevant text. The IRS complains about decreasing audit rates. They pretend the IRS budget should be tied to our GDP. It’s very insightful.

          I have a copy of this document saved in the same folder I saved that letter written by the intel community that described the Hunter laptop story as a Russian disinformation campaign. You know, the letter you used as evidence of Russian disinformation in a conversation with me in 2020? Someday I’ll show my future grandchildren how crazy the country was. I’ll have the receipts. Hopefully we’ll be able to right the ship by then.

          Because the expansion in the IRS’s budget is phased in over a 10-year horizon, each year the IRS’s workforce should grow by no more than a manageable 15%.
          https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/136/The-American-Families-Plan-Tax-Compliance-Agenda.pdf

        • @Dude I had SUCH similar conversation with a colleague a few years back, who insisted that AOC’s Green New Deal was “CPAC talking points.” I sent him the document – AOC’s document – and his response was, “Oh, I guess we just get our news from two different sources.”

          He was correct. He got his news entirely from leftist propaganda, and those liars had him completely fooled. He had no idea the “CPAC talking points” were AOC’s actual words.

          @Miner, you should read more widely. The world is not what you think it is.

        • To clarify for Miner or anyone who reads that document, go to the table on the page labeled 16. FTE means full-time equivalent employees. Look under year 2031. See that number of 86,852? Yeah.

      • “The best thing government can do is absolutely nothing, and get out of the way.” This is the correct answer for virtually every situation. It is also certainly exactly the opposite of what Californistan and the Feds will do. They’ll double down on stupid and blame Trump, Christians, white people and gun-owners for their failures.

    • In the evil eyes of pompous Gun Control democRats law abiding Gun Owners exercising a Constitutional Right are misfits and along the lines of the N-word they used to belittle Black Americans. By all accounts the democRat Party remains addicted to the Gun Control rot inherent with their Jim Crow Gun Control.

      My crystal ball says there are sue happy discrimination lawsuits heading towards participating credit card companies et al.

    • A cashless system is coming and there is nothing you can do about it so get ready for it. This cashless system is prophesied in the Bible. Why not stay on topic? Major credit card companies tracking gun dealer purchases is a big deal. We already have to fill out forms and go through a background check to purchase a firearm. So what’s this all about? I think this is so they can find out where there are firearms that they don’t know about by looking at what ammunition and accessories we purchase. Big Brother is alive and well and getting stronger and more dangerous every day.

      • “This cashless system is prophesied in the Bible“

        Would you be kind enough to let me know what chapter and verse in the Bible discusses a “cashless society”, thanks!

        • Well miner don’t you think digital currency will make it a lot easier for the beast to deny you the ability to buy and sell?

        • “…what chapter and verse…”

          Pfui. You know where it is. You just want to argue.

        • Revelations Chapter 13. It starts with verse 11, but the no buying or selling start at verse 16. It does not get any more cashless, than having to have a mark on your right hand or forehead to buy and sell.

        • Here ya go Miner49er. The Marlk of the Beast will be a symbol/implant (take your pick) that one will be required to have on his body in order to buy or sell in the market place. Sounds cashless to me….You should read the Bible more and get to know jesus’s word. Or you may “live up to” your screen name far more than you could ever imagine….after you kick the bucket.

          https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Mark-Of-The-Beast

    • I remember when my friends in the John Birch Society were warning anyone who would listen about this back in the late 1970s. Of course when you try to warn people about the danger they are headed in, you are called a racist.
      But it was lawmakers who were members of the John Birch Society, who voted to support the Black Panther Party for self-defense. When they voted against the Mulford Act.

  1. Does this mean if I go to a store like academy and buy ammo and a bike at the same time, they’ll report how much I spent broken down: how much on the ammo and how much on the bike?

    • Nope. It will ALL become the background”noise” from which those with the big noses will attept to deterine how “daynjrus” yuo are this week. Just think. If I head off to Cabelas and plop my plastic to buy a $25,000 powerboat, they won’t be able to tell that purchase from another one of five Barrett Fifties, will they?
      Another stupid worse than worthless idea by the controllers trying to gain poitical points, and at the sme time mucking up everything we do.

      • Tioinico, you obviously haven’t bought many Barrett 50s. You wont get even 4 82s or 2 max M107A1s for that 25 large….maybe a few more low end bolts… Hardly a blip on Barrett radar love. 🙂 🙂 🙂

        • I guess I am like Tionico, I haven’t been pricing Barretts recently. The answer is to not use credit cards but save up your pennies and nickels and pay in cash. Each time you take money from an ATM, draw out an extra $100, put it in the cookie jar in your gun safe and when you have the cash, use that. I agree with those who think the next step is a government issued EBT card on which you will have your salary less taxes and fees deducted, credited to your EBT card and every major chain will get on board. They will save a bundle not having to handle all that nasty cash. Cash will, for a while, still be a medium of exchange at smaller stores, but anything at the Wallyworlds will all be by EBT card. Already they have more credit card self-service purchase points than cash purchase points.

          The ultimate control brought to you by the wonderful folks at Microsoft and Apple.

    • Even if they don’t separate the guns and ammo from other sporting goods at the beginning, it’s just a matter of time before the merchant code is changed to reflect the differences. Even if they don’t, it’s not an impossibility that a room full of purple fingered paper pushers will review every sporting good purchase to separate Firearm Transactions (including all parts and anno) from the other goods. It’s another way of getting the Gun Registration the Libs have wanted since 1934.

    • “Does this mean if I go to a store like academy and buy ammo and a bike at the same time, they’ll report how much I spent broken down: how much on the ammo and how much on the bike?”

      The more likely outcome for that would be to declare the entire purchase a firearm purchase. Sorta, kinda like with Covid…no matter the actual cause of medical treatment, if a person also had Covid, it was logged as a Covid episode.

      The real fun will begin when the Feds fund bounties on the number of firearm purchases recorded (say, a dollar for each declaration).

  2. Underestimating the enemy is always a poor tactic. Leftists, Dims, and Communists are shape-shifters.

    And they are very good at it.

  3. Kinda simple. Don’t use a credit card to buy gats & gat related stuff. Or do business with banks who gleefully give the dims your info! Oh & NEVER FORGET!

  4. Then of course there is the talk of national digital-only currencies, and all the fun that will bring.

    Re 3d printers, yes, the average plastic printer is capable of making a frame. And there are mostly plastic fire control groups. I’d guess a plastic slide could be made to work with an appropriate insert for the breech and wear bits. The average homebuilder will still need to buy or make springs, barrels and other pressure bearing & wear parts.

    It’s not impossible but it’s a whole other level of effort and skill beyond just buying the printer.

    So, I think we need a strategy to get this sort of nonsense shut down soon, and hard.

    • Perhaps those who manufacture gun barrels could always classify them as “hardware” or “plumbing” parts. separate counter and business name, real firearms and ammo )FFL controlled items) at that counter, triggering the code, everything else, holsters, mags, scopes, slings, cases, kayaks, deer blinds, etc, at the other counter no code.
      they wanna change the size/shape of the box, we can still decide to play outside that new box.

      • Care to bet they would love to regulate deep drills and chamber reamers and other gunsmith specialty supplies?

        The latest ‘Ghost Gunner’ v3 will CNC a functional AR-pattern lower from blocks of raw aluminum.

        …that an enterprising individual could cast from empty aluminum beverage cans in their garage with a tank of BBQ grill propane… 🙂

        • Speaking of tanks of BBQ grill propane, does anyone have experience in converting a Briggs & Stratton 5hp generator engine to propane?

          I’m overhauling a 2400 watt Generac with blown field windings into a functional unit…

        • Coincidentally, I *just* bought a dual-fuel (LPG/gas) “smart” generator yesterday. Waiting on delivery.

          One of my buddies brought his dual-fuel genny on our multi-family camping trip a few weeks ago. He said the propane burns cleaner, lasts longer, smells better, and requires less maintenance for the carburetor. I decided to get one to add to the Haz household’s growing solar/LPG energy backup system, due to California’s worsening electric grid problems. Already had the local neighborhood power go out several times, ranging from a couple of hours to as long as a couple of days.

        • Just bought one here, too. I’m in the process of converting my panel for a direct connection, and will extend a LPG line so I don’t have to rely only on gasoline and 20 lb tanks.

          Geoff, you can get conversion kits on ebay etc. that will include a new carb, regulator, and fittings. The primary downside for you is, you’ll lose approximately 10% of your generating capacity with LPG. You’ll have to be mindful of what you run on it.

        • Yo Haz, hawk! I’ve been looking and reading for about the last 5 weeks. Which brand/model did you get? I’m also looking at dual fuel.
          Thanks

        • @Manse,

          Check out EcoFlow. I purchased one of their very first models (it’s now called a River Pro on their site) plus two solar panels a few years ago when the company was on Kickstarter getting ready to launch worldwide. It’s on their lower end of the product spectrum now, as their focus is moving toward larger, more robust systems, but that little guy has already brought us through a few power outages, keeping our fridge running overnight. I then bought their largest model (Delta Pro) recently. The dual-fuel genny is designed to connect with the Delta and automatically turn on when it reaches a discharge level, then turn off when charged. Here in SoCal our heat waves result in rotating brownouts or even outright blackouts (grid failures), so A/C is a necessity. With the genny hooked up to the Delta Pro, which itself would be hooked up to the fridge, a couple of fans, and a window-mounted A/C unit, it will be a “lifesaver”.

          A few weeks ago, one of my good friends brought his family and joined us for camping in the mountains for a week. As soon as he parked his trailer, he found that his battery inverter had failed, and he had no way to keep his fridge (and food) cool. I loaned him my smaller original River Pro with one solar panel, and it kept their fridge powered the entire time. He was so impressed that he bought a larger model immediately upon returning home.

        • https://westinghouseoutdoorpower.com/collections/generators/products/wgen9500df-generator-dual-fuel

          Bought it locally on sale, just under a grand plus sales tax. I’m setting it up to connect directly to my panel via a 50 amp RV type of cable, a special receptacle that is connected to a 50 amp breaker in my panel, and an interlock plate that will disconnect the main breaker so the generator will not energize the utility grid. No more messing around with extension cords, at least for powering the house. There are a couple different ways to do this according to code (i.e., safely) and according to your needs. I don’t have solar panels, and this method works best for my situation.

        • Manse, one more thing. Do a bit of research on whether you should bond the neutral at your generator, depending on your setup. Generally, with most portable generators, you would bond the neutral and ground (chassis of the generator) at the generator if you are using extension cords. Some will even use an earth ground. If you connect directly to a panel, as I am doing, you rely on the neutral bond in your main disconnect or panel, and have to disconnect from the utility so your generator doesn’t backfeed into the power company grid.

    • @Geoff- here’s what you want: http://www.propane-generators.com/

      These guys make bolt-on conversion kits for most generators. If you can’t sort it out by looking at the website, they’ll have you sorted out in a quick phone call.

      I had mine installed and tuned in 30 minutes. I’d recommend getting one of those tie-on tachometers you use for tuning a chainsaw, if you don’t already have one.

      The system works perfectly. I have mine set up for in-code backfeeding, and plumbed to run off my 500 gallon propane tank, but can put gas in the tank and run it on gasoline without taking anything apart.

  5. I wonder how this will work out for them. Remember Dick’s Sporting Goods?

    What’s in your wallet?
    Soon to NOT be Mastercard/Visa when purchasing anything and everything granted by 2nd Amendment right.

    Don’t be disillusioned that digital currency will keep you anonymous. The Canadian Trucker protest demonstrated how they can easily cut off your funds, much less track. Already demonstrated and done.

    • with the exceptions of those guns acquired by using someone else’s stolen card to slip door locks to gain entry to homes and then stealing the firearms found there.

  6. I plan to stop in my LGS and Sportsman store daily and make minor, mostly non-firearm related, purchases with my card. Bury the bastards with useless data.

    • Maybe this will also reveal to those policy makers that care more about profit than policy how many dollars are actually being moved in this industry. Endanger their bottom line and they will back off?

      • “Endanger their bottom line and they will back off?”

        Dick’s Sporting Goods took a one-time hit to their bottom line (eliminating firearm items), and recovered nicely; with a bonus that they likely won’t be servicing deplorables any more.

    • “I plan to stop in my LGS and Sportsman store daily and make minor, mostly non-firearm related, purchases with my card. Bury the bastards with useless data.”

      ‘Fraid the three letters aren’t inconvenienced by the volume of data sifted hourly.

      Kinda interesting, NSA invented “the onion router”, then put it out there for anyone to use….and believe TOR keeps them anonymous from NSA.

    • That’s my first thought. Since the code is assigned by business type and not the specific merchandise purchased, excess data will flood the system with no discernable difference as to the item(s) purchased.

      • Slave states have banned private sales. It wouldn’t surprise me if Florida went the same way.

        It won’t impact you or I individually, just the ones that follow us… 🙁

        • Geoff, I don’t see much changing in Florida soon. And I agree that even if does it will be after I’ve had a pat in the face with a shovel. My 25 y.o. son could be different. I raised him well and I believe he’s prepared for he may see.

  7. Wait until the next “crisis” hits, like the Sweet and Sour Sicken “pandemic.” Governors and feds will declare nonessential businesses shutdown. As part of that shutdown, banks will terminate credit card transactions from “gun” businesses. The rest… you all can figure that out.

  8. OK, so our course is clear.

    Every FFL needs to see to it that there is an ATM near-by. If not, the FFL needs to find an ATM provider who will install an ATM on the FFL’s premises or in a neighboring shop.

    Every gun-owner who cares needs to use the ATM to withdraw enough cash to cover his prospective purchase in the FFL, whether that be for guns, ammo, or sporting goods.

    The fees collected on ATM withdrawals ought to be lower than the fees collected on a credit-card purchase. If they are, then the banks and card-processing agents will lose gross revenue and profit. To the extent that ATM fees are equivalent to credit-card purchases, they won’t lose revenue but they will lose the information value from the new code.

    This isn’t going to play-out well for the gun-controllers. The more diversified stores will destroy all the information value. Let’s suppose that Walmart maintains its FFL and sells the occasional shotgun. OK, then that Walmart is going to get classified as a “Gun Shop” and its millions of dollars of sales will all get classified as “Gunzzzz”. Bass Pro Shop is a middling example. They sell plenty of guns, but it’s still a minority line of business. Their sales will all be “Gunzzzz”. Bob’s Gun Shop will be mostly guns; but, their customer base will probably eschew paying with credit cards; they will use an ATM. And, Bob’s will probably lower its prices for cash sales. Or, if you buy a gun with cash they might throw in a free box of ammo to comply with their card company contract of not offering a cash discount.

    If we PotG – consumers and FFLs alike – play this game right we could strike a blow for gun rights that the card companies and banks will regret.

    • Most ATM’s have a daily draw limit on each card. Could complicate things.

      As to cash discounts, do Visa/MC get to look at each merchant’s entire sales report tally for each month? If not, how will they know the merchant is giving a cash discount?

      I can forsee businesses selling guns to create a different business license named at that same location which will sell everything BUT firearms/FFL controlled items. The code will apply to those sales in Business Number One, but not to the other busiess, which will use a separate register payment processing account, etc.

      But then, HOW do Visa/MC actually know what kind of business each one is? If I start a business labelled “coffee shop” sel coffee in there but also have a gun counter, do Visa/MC come round to inspect what ACTUALLY goes on in there? HOW will they know I am actually selling FFL items also? I’ve had card processing in the past, no one ever came round to SEE what it is I am selling/making/repairing/doing.

      They wanna play dirty, maybe its time to play dirty back at them.

      • If you go to your bank’s ATM there shouldn’t be a charge for withdrawing cash. I do that every month at my bank and there is no charge. You can also slowly increase your daily limit if you plan ahead. If you regularly draw out $100 each visit, upgrade it to whatever is the max. Draw the max for several months and then upgrade it and see what happens. Keep doing it until you reach an ultimate max or are able to draw out more than you have.

        I used that method to put away a cash reserve. I started out with $500 per withdrawal and then went to two-$500 withdrawals a month, then went to two $600 withdrawals a month. Had I wanted more I would have gone to three $600 withdrawals a month equally spaced out over the month.

        • “If you regularly draw out $100 each visit, upgrade it to whatever is the max.”

          Wonder if 87,000 new IRS agents will be looking only at individual transactions that exceed $600, or if the flag will be set at more than $600 in any combination of transactions, over any specific time?

          As an IRS executive manager, I would set the flag at more than $600, ever. At a variable threshold, I would trigger an investigation, with warrants and subpoenas for records, then bring you in to have a conversation about why you cannot substantiate that you didn’t intend to hide your purchases of firearms and associated items.

          Underestimating the desire of government to control the populace isn’t especially ingenious.

    • Or, just keep a few thousand dollars in the gun safe. Along with precious metals. Who needs the ATM? Ammo, food fuel, etc. ain’t a bad idea either. Most around here call it hurricane supplies. I call it things you should have everyday.

    • “Every FFL needs to see to it that there is an ATM near-by.”

      Guns can be expensive, and some ATMs have cash limits on withdrawals.

      Like Gadsden says, keep a short stack of hundreds in the gun safe for ’emergencies’… 🙂

      • just be sure you rotate the old bills out of the stack first. I had a pile of bills from wayback, 100s,50s20s that I tried to buy a jeep with. The dealer wouldn’t accept them because they didn’t contain the tracer ribbon and weren’t the same colorcode as monopoly bills. I actually had to exchange them at a Fed Reserve bank ( Mpls) for new bills, where they were required to report the “transaction” to whomever…Imagine going somewhere in murderapolis with a large sum of cash on your person where carrying is a felony.
        This shit is the domestic war being waged against us right here right now that was alluded to by another poster in a previous story… thus country is truly headed over a cliff

  9. Cash I get – and we may see a resurgence of local store vs. online – me, for one.
    Is Bitcoin a viable option for online transactions? Does it provide a “cloak” to these sales?

    • From what I understand, the density of the ‘cloak’ depends heavily on how much effort someone (or agency) is willing to expend in an effort to penetrate it.

      I personally don’t trust digital currencies enough to park any appreciable amount of my assets into it, because it’s a rather complex subject with far too many folks that know far more about it than I do (and are a lot less nice than I am)… 🙁

  10. “There are more than a few problems with this, however. First, who will get the new code?”

    It’s data, pure and simple. It’s a commodity, and is constantly collected, bought, and sold to the highest bidder.

    Just *imagine* the possibilities. You can bet the Leftist Scum ™ are.

    Being how it’s the 2A, we might be able to fight it as a privacy and civil right issue. The Leftist Scum ™ are doing that right now with internet data that may indicate someone is seeking an abortion. They apparently believe that right is inviolate.

    Time to subvert them by drafting legislation dealing with internet privacy that protects them and us at the same time… 🙂

    • could/should also be an issue of banking privacy as well. MY personal ifnormation, actions, etc, are nunnyabidniss to the card processors. They use those codes for general trend minitoring, etc. Now they are turning the power they have agglomerated to themselves to gather and distribute private information that could be used against me. Not cricket….. my banks don’t blab all over about things like how much booze, fuel, tools, building materials I purchase, do they?

      • “my banks don’t blab all over about things like how much booze, fuel, tools, building materials I purchase, do they?”

        I think I’d rather not dwell on what they already know, I likely won’t like what I’ll find.

        That goes for pretty much anything someone wishes to be private. Alcohol, recreational ‘medications’ (Call the doctor, I think I’m gonna crash. Doctor says he’s coming, but you gotta pay him cash), hotel room rentals for sex, lots and lots of other things.

        Some illicit, others, just because it’s no one’s goddamn business what my business is or what I spend my damn money on.

        I will fight with tooth and nail every attempt to go cashless. Sweden, Scandinavia and Europe can if they want, but not I. My privacy as an American is my most precious asset… 🙁

        • In a way, I suppose, we are partly digitally-financed already. Mortgage payments can be automatically-deducted from a bank account, minimum credit card payments as well. Banks *love* minimum CC payments, it maximizes the interest, and their profits)… 🙁

        • “My privacy as an American is my most precious asset… “

          The only “privacy” you have is what is delineated in the fourth amendment.

          Sam Alito and Clarence Thomas have made clear that there is no right to privacy in the constitution and states can regulate any behaviors not specifically protected in the constitution.

          So no more blow jobs in Georgia…

        • @Miner49er

          “Sam Alito and Clarence Thomas have made clear that there is no right to privacy in the constitution and states can regulate any behaviors not specifically protected in the constitution.”

          You’ve said this before and you were just as wrong then as you are now.

          What was being spoken of is a specific enumerated right to privacy for which there is none. However, the fourth amendment does provide a right to privacy from government, it states…

          “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

          The fourth amendment Protects the right of privacy against unreasonable searches and seizures by the government.

          There is a reason the democrats trolled the credit card companies to do this, its because the democrats could not do it by legislation because its unconstitutional, However, government getting the information from credit card companies is also unconstitutional as its used to perform a ‘search’ of ‘effects’ (e.g. purchases). Its still an invasion of privacy by government as it is not ‘reasonable’ to cast a wide net of search capability when the constitution demands such be very limited. In effect the government is making the credit card companies their agents to conduct a ‘search’ by proxy.

          You just want to see the country burn don’t you.

        • “searches and seizures by the government“

          When you voluntarily provide the information to the private credit card company, you have waived any so-called ‘right to privacy’ you might’ve had.

          And you don’t think Clarence Thomas and the other conservatives aren’t going after every single right under the ‘right to privacy’ umbrella?

          “Among those, Thomas wrote, was the right for married couples to buy and use contraception without government restriction, from the landmark 1965 ruling in Griswold v. Connecticut.
          “In future cases, we should reconsider all of this Court’s substantive due process precedents, including Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell,” Thomas wrote on Page 119 of the opinion in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health, also referring to the rulings that legalized same-sex relationships and marriage equality, respectively. “Because any substantive due process decision is ‘demonstrably erroneous’ … we have a duty to ‘correct the error’ established in those precedents.”

          https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/24/contraception-supreme-court-clarence-thomas-griswold/

          Yes sir, small government conservatives on the Supreme Court want to come in my bedroom and tell me and my wife that we can’t use a condom.

          Republicans, thy name is hypocrite.

        • Hi Miner,
          Serious talk here. Most conservatives don’t care what you do in your bedroom (let’s drop the talking points). Most of them see the benefits of contraceptives. With that being said, there is no constitutional right to a condom. Thomas isn’t saying they have a duty to correct the error of those precedents because they don’t align with his personal beliefs. He’s saying they should correct the error of bad decisions which were based on made up rights, similar to abortion. Condoms suck anyway, especially if you’re married. Most women would rather take a daily pill than deal with condoms. If you don’t want kids, then you can permanently deal with that issue.

    • “Time to subvert them by drafting legislation dealing with internet privacy that protects them and us“

      Sorry, Sam Alito and Clarence Thomas say there is no ‘right to privacy’.

      • They said there’s no constitutional right to privacy outside of the Fourth Amendment. That doesn’t mean legislators can’t expand the right to privacy, what the Constitution provides is just the floor that the States can’t drop below.

        • “That doesn’t mean legislators can’t expand the right to privacy“

          And of course the inverse is true:

          That doesn’t mean legislators can’t RESTRICT the right to privacy.

          Well, at least we have that going for the authoritarians, bravo!

      • @MIner49er

        “Sorry, Sam Alito and Clarence Thomas say there is no ‘right to privacy’.”

        You’ve said this before and you were just as wrong then as you are now.

        What was being spoken of was a specific enumerated right to privacy for which there is none. However, the fourth amendment does provide a right to privacy from government, it states…

        “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

        The fourth amendment Protects the right of privacy against unreasonable searches and seizures by the government.

        • “What was being spoken of was a specific enumerated right to privacy for which there is none“

          Interesting position, so there are no non-enumerated rights, interesting.

          And in any case, the financial institutions are private businesses, and they can legally spy on you, collect any information they wish and trade/distribute it to any person or entity they wish.

          Ain’t freedom grand!

  11. I use pre-paid cards for anything gun related bought over the net and have been doing so for going on 16 years now. Even if I have to buy 10 $500 cards I do it. I may just start using money orders just like the good old days. Brownells and most of the other mail order retailers in the past had provisions set up to take money orders with no issue.

    • Money orders:

      You have to use a debit card or cash.

      They are treated like a cash withdrawal, and subject to the same withdrawal limits as an ATM if you use your debit card.

      Can be done, but might be a pain in the Kirsten for high-dollar items.

      • I pulled $96,000 out of my bank account a few days ago to pay for a new pool and they didn’t give me any lip about handing me cash. I can have 20 grand worth of money orders in an hour by driving to the post office and to 7-Eleven and buying a few thousand dollars worth at a time with no one being the wiser. I even pay my income taxes with money orders that I get at the post office and I still file a paper return with the IRS every year.

        • “I still file a paper return with the IRS every year.”

          Here and there, I see mumbling about ending paper tax returns. USG collects sufficient data about us that exercises are being conducted on creating the ability of the IRS to do it all electronically, only needing to send us notices of taxes due; and collecting.

        • A cashier’s check is tied to your account and there is a huge paper trail. the advantage to a cashier’s check is that it can be in virtually and unlimited dollar amount whereas money orders are typically limited to $1,000 per money order.

        • “This seems to go along with them wanting banks to track purchases valued at $600 or more.”

          Probably the reason for the 87,000 new IRS tax collectors. Bet few, even in government, have considered what will become of all those new hires as technology takes over more and more.

  12. Since the brilliant Shannon Watts is assuring everyone how well this will work, then we get to blame the banks for the next shooting, right? They’ll finally stop blaming uninvolved legal gun owners for it, right? Shannon would be laughed out of town in a functioning society.

  13. So Bob’s Gun Shop can now become Bob’s Pawn Shop or Bob’s Hardware Store?

    No mention of Discover Card. Are they going along with it and were just not mentioned, or are they resisting?

    • There’s an opening for the formation of a parallel society. That’s where we’re headed. The problem is, the big boys have all of the power, and they won’t let the little guy get going in business. They collude with each other and the government to limit their own competition. Remember Parler? They were suddenly becoming more popular than twitter, and their competitors literally took them offline. The “for the little guy” Democrats cheer it on.

      Chant with me Democrats:
      They’re a threat to our democracy
      Believe all women
      Diversity is our strength
      The world will end if we don’t ban fossil fuels
      You’re a semi-fascist/racist/Nazi/deplorable

  14. I wonder if internet sellers will start accepting pre-charged gift/money cards, checks or money orders now (AND WILL THOSE BE FLAGGED NEXT)…If not I will no longer buy anything from them…I will no longer buy any firearm or ammo with a credit card…I guess this coding will cover all parts, mags, and accessories, too…Most of the time I pass ups sellers because they charge 3-5% sir charges to use cards…its time to hurt the credit card industry now…but let’s be realistic here, most gun owners will continue to do business as usual…A lot of gun owners can’t form up to cooperate in the making of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich together..

  15. One might consider how the “other” side might not appreciate this scheme, either…

    Imagine the shock and horror of the normal, upstanding anti-rights folks when they find out that their large purchases at specific “retailers” have been flagged for investigation under suspicion of “illegal arms trafficking” or “mass shooting preparation”.

    Or picture a local news report about the middle school that’s under investigation after their credit card company reported their multi-thousand dollar “suspicious” purchase at a known “gun retailer” after their athletic department upgraded all of the school’s sports equipment.

    Could it be that this scheme just might end up being more of an “inconvenience” to the “well-intentioned” folks than it is to the “problem” people…

  16. I do not see the issue with cash. I always use cash, I get great deals because I use cash and the merchants I do business also appreciate cash. Simple solution.

  17. The potential bad side should be obvious.
    The potential good side is maybe people will not so eagerly give their personal information and financial freedom over to usury schemes.

  18. The real purpose of this is so private corporations can track who the gun owners are and later hand that data over to the government. There will also be a bunch of virtue signalers/sjw types willing to stop processing those kind of payments in the not too distant future. Just wait until smart guns are mandated and you find out that the licensing agreement you signed for your new electric car won’t allow the car to move if there’s a gun inside of it.

    • “private corporations can track who the gun owners are and later hand that data over to the government“

      Sure they can, do you think you have some kind of constitutional ‘right to privacy’?

  19. Crypto, check, or cash in person.

    Sounds like stores will give free ammo with every purchase of a sticker or swag patch.

  20. Not mentioned though still relevant to to cash (currency) purchases are the Currency Transaction Report (CTR) that every financial institution as well as vendor/seller must report for transactions that involve $10K or more. This requirement is applicable to private transactions between two persons. Also this requirement is applicable if the transaction takes place and only involves $1 in currency if the total value exceeds $10K.

    The other is the Suspicious Activity Report (SAR) that financial institutions are required to utilize no matter what the amount of funds involved (currency, electronic, check, crypto, etc). The definition of “Suspicious” is left up to the filer.

    Both reports go to the Treasury & IRS via the Financial Crimes Information Center (FinCEN). Both reports contain full identification of the individual(s) and entities involved. The SAR has a narrative section that the preparer may utilize. This data is accessible by law enforcement and intelligence agencies. The SAR cannot be used in judicial documents (affidavits/grand jury) but can serve as a clue for obtaining the information via subpoena at which time the information can be used.

    These reporting documents are courtesy of the Bank Secrecy Act of 1970 (BSA), also known as the Currency and Foreign Transactions Reporting Act. Bank Secrecy Act – Wikipedia

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Secrecy_Act

    It is reasonable to assume that any reporting done by processors, credit card companies or financial institutions regarding the ISO codes will be in the form of a SAR.

    • Yes, the bank secrecy act… Just who’s idea was that anyway…

      “The BSA was originally passed by the U.S. Congress in 1970 and signed by President Richard Nixon into law on October 26, 1970“

      Thanks, conservative Republicans!

      • No one ever said Richard Nixon was a “conservative Republican”, in fact he would be well appreciated by today’s “progressives”, he expanded government and was very supportive of the EPA as an agency which started during his presidency.
        The other federal agency which Nixon championed and dear to his heart was the DEA. The BSA has been an integral tool used by the DEA in drug money laundering investigations.

  21. we should just go back to prepaid phone cards… it was good enough for sending billions of dollars across the southern border no questions asked

  22. When it comes right down to the nuts and bolts of this kind of thing, there are two sides to it. There is the question of ‘doing it’ and the ethics behind such things. Then there is the implementation.

    Once the decision is made TO do it, everything else is just about programming changes in the computer systems. It’s not much of a stretch to translate a keystroke on the register at checkout marked “ammo/firearms” to this predesignated code the CC companies will use and transmit THAT information along with a request for approval once the card is scanned. The same thing could be done with tobacco sales at grocery stores. The clerk, store management, and even people at the CC company itself might not have any direct knowledge or input into such things. Cash registers and payment systems are advancing just like everything else.

  23. Since the paranoid leftist communists are finally losing they’re trying to delegate govt. power and authority to the private sector to enforce legislation they cannot pass. Clearly this is a violation of our fourth and fifth amendment rights and IMHO the Fair Credit Reporting Act. I can see the lawsuits being filed already and most if not all should effectively stop this bullshlt.

    They didn’t mention DISCOVER nor Diner’s so I wonder if they’ve caved yet?

  24. Sounds to me like “banks” are accepting unlimited liability for their failure to notice whatever BS the progs will think they should flag/address.

  25. Let us see if the Republicans reject this step by the credit card companies after the November elections by using legislation to remove such activities.. Let us also see which Republicans condemn this action by the credit card companies. What we want to purchase a legal gun owners should be our business and not the commiecrats. It is just another invasion of privacy that they have eroded over the years.

    • “It is just another invasion of privacy that they have eroded over the years“

      Sam Alito and Clarence Thomas say y’all ain’t got no ‘right to privacy’.

      • That’s not what they said at all. What they said is that there is no constitutionally granted right to privacy at a federal level outside of the Fourth Amendment. The Constitution sets the minimum standards that states and the federal government have to abide by but that doesn’t mean the legislators can’t expand the right to privacy.

        • “that doesn’t mean the legislators can’t expand the right to privacy”

          Correct, and it also means that legislators can restrict the right to privacy as well…

          With no constitutional ‘right to privacy’, the politicians will giveth and the politicians will taketh away

        • “With no constitutional ‘right to privacy’, the politicians will giveth and the politicians will taketh away”

          Are you proposing a constitutional right to privacy?

        • “Are you proposing a constitutional right to privacy?“

          Yep, all rights not specifically granted to the government are reserved to the people.

          The constitution grants no right of invasion of privacy by the government, ergo, the people retain their individual right to privacy.

          Now get the hell out of my bedroom and my wife’s uterus, you ‘small government’ hypocrite.

        • I think you mean:
          “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

          …As in letting the people in various jurisdictions and states hold a democratic vote on how to govern themselves. You know, like what we’re finally doing with abortion. Man, you guys really hate democracy, don’t you?

          Your wife doesn’t own the life growing in her uterus. She’s merely a caretaker. You aren’t allowed to take another life, Miner. That isn’t a question of big or small government. However, there is a very powerful and politically connected organization that benefits from Big Government. It’s called Planned Parenthood, as you know. They get big bucks from me, the American tax payer, to both promote baby killing and to donate back to Big Government politicians, like the ones you support. It’s quite the scam. Spare me the fake outrage, liar.

      • Jeebus, miner. Your side started this with background checks and 4473’s. Permits to exercise a basic civil right. You were fine with no right to privacy then.

        Hypocrite.

  26. since my preferred firearms dealer is also a pawn shop, she will happily take cash, or even gold or silver for a firearm. yes, it may cost a little more to purchase through a small shop over the online or big box retailers, but having a relationship with a local business, and supporting a small business helps both of us. She gets the sale and I get a minimum of paperwork involved.
    Or use the prepaid with cash debit cards.

    • Cost is relative. Gun Broker has what I’m interested in but at about the same price as local shops. Even when the price is cheaper, it’s not enough to mean much. It often pays to be a little patient with these things.

  27. They will eventually itemize the purchases, categorize them, share all the info and data, etc. This is the foot in the door. They’ll slowly squeeze their way all the way through.

  28. The last sentence in the quoted AP article is very ominous:
    “Visa acts as a middleman between merchants and banks, and it will be up to banks to decide whether they will allow sales at gun stores to happen on their issued cards.”

    This means Americans might suddenly find their credit cards blocked from use at gun stores. Big Brother is here, 1984 is here. Be afraid, be very afraid.

    • They’re moving to “convince” the big retailers to stop selling firearms and related accessories (AKA Dicking). “Say, that’s a nice business you have there. I’d hate for something to happen to it.” They’re closing the small shops over simple mistakes made trying to abide by the government’s onerous regulations.

      They’ll do everything in their power to limit sales and make purchases as expensive and as painful as possible. Look what they’ve done to the fossil fuels industry in a matter of months. The Strategic Petroleum Reserve releases will only last so long. It’s distracting people from the real problem by temporarily lowering the price. Then what?

  29. This actually may be very good for Local Gun Shops. To avoid using Cards for online purchases, many people will be much more likely to just bring cash in hand to local businesses that they would have otherwise spent online.

    • “many people will be much more likely to just bring cash in hand to local businesses that they would have otherwise spent online.”

      And if a business declares that they accept only credit/debit card transactions (because cash on hand is a theft risk)?

  30. If you can discipline yourself when it comes to spending and saving money??? You can use cash to buy guns. Like I have done. I have used cash to buy both new and used guns. And I’m not sure why so many people are upset about this policy???

    Because they, Libertarians Liberals and the Left. were quite comfortable with these same private financial institutions, began terminating their business relationships with family-owned gun businesses. Without any warning what so ever.

    • They plan on banning cash as well. It just emboldens them if we acquiesce to any of their authoritarian nonsense. Notice how quickly the Left reverts to the Libertarian talking point of, “well it’s a private business.” No, actually it’s private businesses responding to threats and orders from the government. They’ve already been caught colluding to ban free speech.

      Big Government and Big Business is a match made in Hell. And the lefties cheer it on…

      • “Notice how quickly the Left reverts to the Libertarian talking point of, “well it’s a private business.”

        The Libertarians have been the useful idiots of the [email protected]/Communist and now a fascist movement in the USA.

        But unfortunately the conservatives have also helped to create this problem. Their faith in the capitalist markets is one that unfortunately has been wrong. The markets are atheistic or agnostic I’m not sure which???
        Because capitalism without a moral Foundation will simply become a tyranny against the population. I believe Adam Smith wrote a book about this. A few hundred years ago.

        And it doesn’t matter if the tyranny does not come from a government. These multibillion-dollar private companies are just as powerful and just as capable of destroying a once free individual, and a free society.

        The conservatives are finally starting to understand this. Unfortunately the Libertarians “are still lost in the woods”. Or I should say they are lost in the marijuana fields.

  31. Many people don’t realize this, but Hitler and his Nazi party were the liberals of their time. The Weimar Republic that they replaced was as conservative and stodgy as any government could be. The Nazis got complete control of the German Government through intimidation and the Reichstag fire. Who really caused that fire has never been found out. Just as today’s Liberals they never let a disaster go to waste. The Nazis used heredity and religion to divide the people and the Liberals of today use race and class to divide the people. Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.

  32. Why would the be any objection by any legal gun owner? They know where you buy your gas and , where you buy you booze why not where you buy you unnessessary Semi-Auto?

  33. Seems to me that if a significant number of the gun owners in this country stopped using their credit cards for everything for a couple of months the card companies would stop this crap due to the hit on their funds flow. How about a credit less Christmas this year?

  34. Years ago, I read an article in one of the Gun publications that predicted the possibility of this happening. Wish not that I’d saved the article, but one recommendation the author had made was avoiding Credit Card purchases altogether. I’ve tried to follow that advice and stuck with a LGS for the vast bulk of my purchases for 40+ years.
    The few times I’ve made an online purchase (usually parts and components), I’ve used one of those Load It, Use It and Throw It Debit Cards.

    AllI know is, I firmly believe our Founders and Forefathers would already be rebelling.

  35. Those – who urge this merchant-specific code – betray a lamentable incapacity to do simple math.

    They claim to be able to find “needles” in a data haystack, that dwarfs Mt. Everest! At end-2019, there were some 435,000,000 firearms in the U.S., military items excluded (U.S. Department of Justice, Firearms Commerce in the United States, 2000 and 2021). Things so abundant – and mainly concealable – cannot be controlled. This is the moreso true, when only a micro-minority of firearm-owners are violent criminals. The firearm supply is so large, relative to criminals’ demand, that such demand will be met. In short, “gun control” is mathematical idiocy.

    It is equally absurd to posit that a credit card merchant code can help to prevent crime. Mass murderers are a micro-minority within the micro-minority of violent criminals. Each year, there are tens of millions of firearms transactions.

    In 2021, the FBI-NICS firearm background check center – on which 37 states and territories rely – reviewed 38.9 million firearm transactions. (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwio07PRjpr6AhVOElkFHWi1CkwQFnoECAYQAQ&url=https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2yX1Yv_-v_3KnyRVeSn11P ) Only 153,565 were denied. These FBI-NICS data do not exclude states, that do some or all of their own background checks.

    It is a Federal felony – a violation of 18 U.S. Code § 922(a)(6) – for a gun-buyer to answer falsely any of the questions on the government-provided Form 4473 that dealers must use, to seek approval to deliver a firearm. Even so, the Feds only rarely prosecute these liars. A Government Accountability Office (GAO) Report – No. 18-440 (September, 2018) showed that just one-in-a-thousand was prosecuted.

    Ammunition sales are not Federally reviewed. Some state laws may require such review. Most, who carry concealed, know: (a) shooting skills are perishable and (b) every bullet fired comes with at least one lawyer attached. So, regular practice is essential. To limit costs, most – who practice regularly – buy ammunition in case lots: 200, 500, or 1,000 rounds.

    It seems obvious that the vast majority of ammunition purchases are by the law-abiding. In 2021, there were about 700 “mass shootings” in the U.S., of which some 300 resulted in no deaths (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2021 ).

    Even using the larger number (700), backers of the specific merchant code would have us believe that such a code will enable law enforcement to know which of several hundred purchases – among tens of millions – is by one, who plans a mass murder. This is facially absurd.

    Ammunition – made mostly of lead and brass/copper – is heavy. A 1,000-round case of 5.56 x 45 mm ammunition – the most common chambering for AR-type rifles, weighs 26-30 pounds. Loaded into standard 30-round magazines, 1,000-rounds would weigh about 36 pounds. I’d guess few mass murderers want to be so burdened. Moreover, ammo prices, though falling, are still well above pre-pandemic levels.

    If those, who back this foredoomed idea are numerate, perhaps they want to use a criminal micro-minority’s wrong-doings to impugn a vast law-abiding majority.

    That is the essence of moral perversion. That’s precisely what the Nazis did to Jews. For die-hard Nazis, all Jews – even those who had fought for Germany in World War I and had been decorated for valor – were to be murdered. For genocidal régimes, individual merits (or de-merits) don’t matter.

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