Tom Van Hoose has owned Highwood Creed Outfitters in Great Falls, Montana for 13 years. As he pulled into work Wednesday morning, twenty heavily armed Internal Revenue Service Criminal Investigation Division agents swarmed his store. He tells TTAG that the IRS agents, in full battle rattle, had been mustered from as far away as Denver and Idaho to serve a warrant for his financial records.
He told us the IRS claims that he has under-reported and failed to report millions of dollars of income. Mr. Van Hoose denied that categorically and told us that anyone who knows anything about the gun business knows there’s not a lot of extra revenue in running a retail gun store and range.
Highwood Creek Outfitters was closed down Wednesday while the agents rifled through his records. The IRS CID troops took ten hours to copy the information on his computers and download his point of sale software information. But what Van Hoose says really concerns him is the fact that in addition to his accounting and sales records, the agents confiscated 13 years of 4473 forms and copied his firearm acquisition and disposition book.
Anyone who’s ever completed a 4473 form knows there’s no revenue or financial data there. That form is a record of a firearm purchase transaction used to facilitate a NICS background check and potentially trace a gun’s ownership down the road if it’s used in a crime. Gun dealers are required to keep those forms for at least 20 years.
The question then is, why would the IRS want customer transaction information? Van Hoose tells us the 4473 forms were not included on the list of financial records specifically listed on the warrant the IRS agents served him during the raid. Yet they took them anyway.
Concerned about handing over his firearm transaction records, Van Hoose told me he called Kirk Nelson, the ATF Area Supervisor in Helena, Montana with whom he said he’s always had a good working relationship. Nelson initially told him he didn’t have to turn over the 4473 forms as they don’t contain financial information and weren’t listed on the warrant. But after some further discussion with the IRS agents on the scene, Nelson changed his tune and told Van Hoose to hand them over.
Mr. Van Hoose estimates that his store generates between 1500 and 2000 4473 forms a year, and that’s been pretty consistent — aside from the COVID gun sales boom — since he started the business 13 years ago. That means the Internal Revenue Service now has tens of thousands of gun sales records for Highwood Creek’s customers. And again, the IRS agents took them despite the warrant not listing 4473 forms as part of the records they were looking for.
I called the agent in charge of the investigation to ask about the 4473s and got a call back from the IRS’s Karen Gurgel, a Special Agent and Public Information Officer in Denver. All she would say is that the raid was part of IRS “official business” and that Mr. Van Hoose got a receipt for all of the records that were taken on Wednesday.
Van Hoose confirms the receipt he received for the confiscated records includes the 4473 forms.
As you can probably imagine, Mr. Van Hoose is concerned about his customers’ individual information being in the hands of a government agency and he’s gotten a number of elected officials involved in trying to get answers. That includes Montana Attorney General Austin Knudsen and Congressman Matt Rosendale who visited the store on Friday. Van Hoose is also attempting to enlist the help of Senator Steve Daines.
According to montanarightnow.com, Rep. Rosendale has written a letter to ATF Director Steven Dettelback and IRS Commissioner Daniel Werfel looking for answers.
“Under Director Dettelbach’s leadership of the ATF, a pattern of intimidation and harassment against hardworking Americans has emerged – Montanans will not tolerate these political witch hunts. I remind both Director Dettelbach and Commissioner Werfel that Congress has the power of the purse, and I will ensure that funding for these agencies is not weaponized against the American people,” Rosendale said in his letter.
Van Hoose had Highwood Creek Outfitters back up and running as usual on Thursday morning. He wants his customers to know that whatever prompted the IRS raid, he’s still very much in business.
He told us he intends to fight the IRS on this to recover his 4473s and he expects the legal bills to run into six figures. He’ll be establishing a GiveSendGo campaign to help raise funds to pay the attorneys. When that’s been established, we’ll add that information to this post for those who would like to help in the effort.
There is no tax information on 4473 forms. This is the DOJ weaponized against gun owners, with inter-agency co-operation, to obtain information that it illegal for them to have, or maybe the IRS agents just want to pretend to be ATF agents and try out their new firearms, but didn’t find any dogs to shoot. F them all, FJB.
“There is no tax information on 4473 forms.”
There can be social security number data on the 4473, tying a name with the tax data the IRS has…
Well aware that it could, but that’s not tax information. The IRS already knows your SSID. There is zero justification for the IRS to confiscate 4473’s unless they used that as excuse to allow the ATF access to 4473’s they were not legally allowed access to without a warrant. The ATF agents can examine the 4473’s but confiscating, coping or photographing them is illegal without a warrant.
MB, I first question why the gentleman would call another federal agent for advice instead of an attorney. If your ass is in a crack and you’re already talking to one cop, the last thing you want to do is involve another one. Especially of your own volition. Second, I’ve worked with a couple of federal agencies. Mostly, they’re good people at the street level. It’s the administrators that are the problem. But, let me tell you one thing. In my experience, the feds will circle their wagons most rikki tikki.
Oh, forgot to say. I’m no accountant and giving the IRS the benefit of the doubt. I’m sorry I had to pause as I typed the last. I was gagging. Maybe they just want to corroborate that firearms sales match received sales. You believe that and I have an unfired Colt Walker I’ll give you a BIL deal on.
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oldsht…It’s your anti Trump, anti Trump voter rhetoric that got biden elected. As far as Trump Voters like me are concerned you participated in the raid.
@Debbie W. DJT was not my first choice, but he was elected, and served the people above and beyond. He’s arrogant and egocentric, but also a kind and caring soul. A very unique combination. I tell people who say they can’t stand him, that I didn’t hire him to be my friend and to placate our enemies, I hired him to fix the country from the disaster that was the Obama-Biden-Clinton clown show. If the Democrats and Rino Trump haters would have just left him to do the job he was hired to do, think how fantastic the economy would be and how well America would be protected from enemies both foreign and domestic.
MB…My fitting reply was to geoffoldsht…Ask him to describe Trump and Trump Voters for you.
“oldsht…”
Deborah, I’m asking you a very serious question –
Do you want my undivided attention? You’ve been here long enough to know exactly what that looks like.
I’ve said it once to you already, I’m done with you. Drop your bullshit and leave me alone, or it’s game fucking on.
I’m not playing. Have I made myself clear enough to you? 🙁
Uh oh everybody, we got a badass over here
but the buyer’s full name and address can easily and quickly be cross referenced with SSA to reveal any other personal infirmation bout the buyer listed in the 4473. Gaining the purcjaser’s SSN is of NO benefit as they can get that anyway directly.
Try again? The sales amount and tax-related infirmation was already in the store’s databse, also confiscated. The 4473’s add nothing to any financial data.
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Geoff, I had a conversation with a casual aquantantice a few years ago. He could be a good guy, but was a bit of a hot head and a brawler. And no joke. He put a couple of men in a hospital. Anyway, CCW came up. He said he’d never have one because he would never give the government that much information about himself. He had an audience and was being a bit boisterous. I asked what he didn’t want the government to know. With a straight face he said, “You know. My birthday, SSN, DL number…That kind of thing.” I may have paraphrased. I was certainly stupified. I asked if he had a birth certificate, SS card, DL, etc.He said he did. I asked who he thought gave him all those documents. They already know all that shit because you wouldn’t have it if they hadn’t given it to you. The government already knows it. They made it up, you moron! It was his turn to be stupified. Everyone just needs to be a good little brick in the wall.
“There can be social security number data on the 4473, tying a name with the tax data the IRS has…”
IRS doesn’t need your customers SSN to audit your financial records.
The 4473 does record the make and model of the Firearms purchased, if the shop owner is being accused of underreporting earnings then I guess the firearm info could be matched with reported income/sales to determine if taxes paid are correct?
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but all the data already downloaded from the store’s software records will have all that data anyway, and most certainly his costs of goods sold. Landed cost of each firearm briught in for sale will be included, then final sale price. The S/N of each indiugual firearm sold adds nothing to that picture nor does the identity of who bought it, as that, too is on the store’s sale data. There is absolutely NO benefit for these clowns to snaffle the 4473’s, and the law actually PROHIBITS that. They MUST be held, and ONLY eld by the FFL and BATF. NO ONE else has lawful access to those.
But as we are increasinly seeing, the totalitarian overreach of fedGov at every level is raidly epanding. Seems to me when the wtore owner reached out to the head cheese at BATF there in Montana, said cheese rattled up someone at IRS and was told to stand down. ‘d like to see both of those clowns subpoenaed and put under oath, and a deces tecum along with the appearance notice to include the whys ahd wherefores for violating federal codes relating to chain of possession of the store’s 4473’s.
100% chance the IRS sent them to the ATF. ATF might have even “used” the IRS for this purpose.
I would have scanned the form 4473 and stored them on a drive, offline, encrypted and NOT at the store. Keep only this year’s records at the store. Burn the originals.
Force them to get a warrant for 13 years of non financial data.
Son of a B , its coming ain’t it.
Possum,
Yup…the Feds are in a cycle of continuous service improvement.
Find your blade of grass….
it sure the he’ll is
Montana waited too long for the national divorce. Here they are still waiting…
So the Stasi & the revenuers got together. Das ist BS🙄
I’ve gotten several letters from the IRS over the years,
requestingdemanding additional information. They send letters…at least they used to…now, they send SWAT teams?My guess is that the armed agents from both the IRS and ATF were there to protect the records during transport, not to bully and intimidate. They would never do that, right?
There is a thing called a subpoena that can be served to obtain records in a criminal case. What tells you that this entire case is 100% harassment is that the owner was not arrested and his home was not subject to a search warrant. They identify a target and get a warrant and then search for a crime, any crime. This is backwards and illegal. Don’t expect the Feds to arrest themselves for only “Doing their duty or following orders”
This is how it starts!!
proof that is much closer than most Montanas think. things about to get real , really really fast in our neck of the woods
Red Dawn much.
Commies didn’t need to parachute in. They just needed to get elected.
Screen writer John Millius, wrote Red Dawn. And he wrote Apocalypse Now and Conan the Barbarian. He is a gun guy and is considered a Right Winger in Hollywood.
“Red Dawn much.”
Consider the time of ‘Red Dawn’ – The early 80s were mostly pre-internet, and the gun store in a small town was, for all practical purposes, a gun registry…
Any gun store’s 4473 collection is, de facto, a partial registry, is it not?
I warned about this previously in another article comments, of using the IRS to get firearms records to establish a ‘registry’ under the guise of ‘evidence’ for tax evasion stuff. as long as its seized and treated like that it can’t be called a ‘registry’ but rather it will be called ‘evidence’. its an attempt to get around the law against the government maintaining a registry.
now you know why Biden wants those thousands of new armed IRS agents. This will happen again. This was probably somewhat of a dry run, even of they do discover something amiss with income those 4473 records are now in government hands as ‘evidence’ and can be kept indefinitely as such.
Good point on the armed agents. Lateral transfer Stasi from ATF/FBI while increasing the net thug budget.
IRS wn’t be ble to figure out when a piece was sold our of the shop’s inventory or when it was a trade-in thene resold, util they “justify” the Bound Book’s records Even so, the 4473’s will not cintain any financial recors of any use, because price is not a part of those forms. Something VEWY fishy is going on… methinks it has to do with the “new” aw thor a tea recently invented for the IRS by Dopey Joeys handlers. My studies of the runups to marxist takeover of certain foreign nations over the past 1/5 centuries is coming into clearer focus in the form of current news.
OK. But you can at least smoke pot legally correct???
Chris, have you ever tried ‘pot’? Its not the hallucinogen its portrayed to be.
And No, kids shouldn’t be smoking pot. As with every jones it does have its limitations.
He was being sarcastic possum (you may have been being sarcastic as well but i wasnt sure)
Actually over the years I have read many stories written by the libertarians. Who dismiss the concerns of parents. Who have found their children smoking marijuana.
Actually possum I started smoking marijuana when I was 11 years old with my father. But he did tell me that I could not snort his cocaine. Because he said that was not safe.
lol, good call dad…
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How will they find some sense of meaning in life when they are basically meaningless, worthless? My best guess at present is a combination of drugs and computer games.”
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Yes, but such activity now includes the downside of henceforth forfeiting your right to arms. Wile I don’t use the green stuff, I definitely have and use the black/grey/bright stuff. And being forced to select one to the exclusion of the other, I’ve made MY choice. And I’m a stickin’ to it.
It doesn’t even matter if he gets the physical records back now. They’ve already been scanned and logged into the illegal registry kept by the ATF. And even if that’s proven, nothing will come from it. The biden tyrannical administration considers any critical thinking American “the enemy”.
OK. But they did wave the rainbow flag at the White House. And they had “men” and “women” exposing their breasts in public, on the White House lawn. Without fear of being arrested. You see you have freedom. And you have “security”.
Can a degenerate with a pecker expose “breasts”? What a freak show (yes including the Brandon administration).
Trans Activist Apologizes for Going Topless At White House > https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trans-activist-apologizes-for-going-topless-at-white-house/ar-AA1cES7X?OCID=ansmsnnews11
Well isn’t that special. That’s so nice of them.
in the above link I posted…
“The White House also spoke out against the action and called it ‘inappropriate’ and ‘disrespectful’.
‘This behavior is inappropriate and disrespectful for any event at the White House,’ a White House spokesperson told Newsweek on Tuesday in response to the video. ‘It is not reflective of the event we hosted to celebrate LGBTQI+ families or the other hundreds of guests who were in attendance. Individuals in the video will not be invited to future events.’
Newsweek reached out to Montoya by email for comment, but Montoya at first defended her actions on TikTok, saying she was within her legal rights to bear her breasts, but she recanted this stance on Friday with a new video shared to her Instagram account.
Montoya commented on how she was proud to visit Washington, D.C., and to speak about her experience being transgender. She said the experience overwhelmed her with ‘trans joy’, which inspired her to remove her top in celebration.”
Now the rainbow-colored house calls it “inappropriate and disrespectful” but it wasn’t so “inappropriate and disrespectful” for them to actually remove or down size the American flag displays in favor of rainbow and it wasn’t “inappropriate and disrespectful” for senile Joe to actually pose with him/her/he/she for a selfie shot?
Oh… him/her/he/she was overcome with ‘trans joy’. Aside from there not actually being a real emotion called ‘trans joy’ it serves to illustrate there is something wrong with this type of thought pattern, the actions and all. Using the logic of him/her/he/she I guess we could say the Nashville mass murderer was overcome with ‘trans sad’.
there is a reason why this appears in the DSM-5 in a ‘mental illness’ category.
“It is not reflective of the event we hosted to celebrate LGBTQI ”
They’re lying because they got caught. Watch a modern Pride parade. What happened on the White House lawn was mild by comparison. They knew exactly what they were inviting. A Pride celebration is a celebration of sexual deviancy and the indoctrination of children into their cult. They’re obsessed with children.
The Puppet made a point, at that event, to reiterate the claim that children belong to the community. These people are evil.
The Libertarians Liberals and the Left have been supporting this for well over 30 years now. And the people who don’t pay attention are now. Are wondering why you have dr@g queen story hour, and “family friendly drag queen shows” ???
And they complained when women were protesting against open carry. By walking around with a str@p on dild0, well fitted for public attire in Austin, Texas.
The three L’s all said g@y pride par@des were wonderful. The christians said this would lead to a disaster for the culture. You can take the religious part out if you’re uncomfortable with it.
But the sexu#lly liber@ted are s0ci@list pr0gressive in their p0litic@l 0rient@tion.
The have always been gun grabbers.They have never believed in liberty. Because with liberty comes responsibility and consequences. They want to avoid all of that.
But they do believe in having a good time.
This is what happens when you don’t believe in morality. That’s why children aren’t off limits. There are no limits. They don’t want to be left alone in their bedroom. They want to force you to celebrate them. If you refuse, they’ll try to destroy you. Oh, and they’re coming for your children. They literally say that out loud. They even made a song about it.
we always knew they were after the kids…just like we always knew leftists wanted to confiscate our guns…some things remain ultimate truths as the ugly reality is slowly revealed to us…..
Sodom and Gomorah.
It’s a race between me and God. I’m trying to end the universe and hes trying to change our world. I like my idea better, seems he’d have learned about the human race by now.
People are asking now why Montana? And why that particular place in Montana?
The words “Ruby Ridge” come to mind.
But what a lot of people don’t know. is that Montana has had a large influx, of New Yorkers and California’s over the last 25 years.
Same for Utah. An Idaho and Wyoming as well.
While having a high concentration of leave us TF along conservatives. Natural that the new carpetbagger progs would have issues.
This is why I say you should peacefully open carry guns. At least two or more people together. And always be polite. The carpet baggers need to understand that this is the way things are done here.
And you should research the history of anyone running for office. Check to see if they are a new comer from California or New York State.
They’ve got your kids, they want your guns. Obama armed every agency and Info-Wars paid a heavy price for exposing the purchase orders for HHS, IRS, EPA, Etc. keeping the ammo and gun factories busy to the point where 21 gun manufacturers caught on and refused to sell guns and ammo to the feds. Long time ago. This has been in the works for awhile. Get ready for the knock on the door. And when you hide them, do it at night. Leave your phone and watch at home.
rig your records to be dumped into a vat of acid if the door is breeched without your permission.fuck these people.
Its a shame they can just take stuff not listed on the warrant and there’s nothing you can do about it (that wouldn’t involve a lengthy jail sentence). Geez.
a lawsuit should be launched to demand return of all items NOT listed n the warrant, to include any digitalcopies of those documents or their content. File in the federal court or jurisdiction where the unlawfulseizure took lace. This is a clear violation of the store owne’rs civil rights, laid out in the First Ten Articles of Ammdnment.
To bad that costs alot of cheese. I’m in a situation right now where i know all about it. I could win if i choose to go to trial but do i wana spend 10 more grand
The most effective way to bring all the crazy down to a manageable level is to remove Democrats from power.
It ain’t just the democrats
His ATF “friend” is not his friend. Should have called his attorney.
a lot of us have (or had) ATF friends…they do what they can….but don’t expect them to put their ass on the line for you….that’s just unrealistic…
Meanwhile, Hunter gets millions funneled to him and…
The one business that forgot to fly the rainbow above the stars & stripes. sq
maybe someone needs to market a pride flag target…then sell it at Target!….
Don’t expect congress to help anyone,
Look at all the warrants they have out for documents from the FBI , CIA etc,
They get nothing, then congress lets them get away with it , no teeth in congress either.
Anyone remember the DO NOT CALL LIST ?
That really works well, right ?
agencies like the ATF, IRS etc…are heavily dependent on federal funding…that is the one club congress can use effectively….it used to be the mere threat of using it was enough…not so these days…..
“…agencies like the ATF, IRS etc…are heavily dependent on federal funding…that is the one club congress can use effectively…”
Isn’t it interesting how aggressive Republicrats can be, when they don’t control the Senate?
And how aggressive they aren’t when they do control both houses?
I don’t give a rats ass what the gubermint knows what I have. It’s no secret. They want it, come and take it.
….and if they want to…they will…the only time the feds have been known to back dpwn was when they were confronted with an armed group…better learn to stick together…..
The confiscation of documents not named on a warrant may backfire. Background checks are included with any store type purchase I ever made. Others shipped to a FFL are charged leaving small Montana potatoes for biden’s nazis to scrutinize…Are your papers in order?
Its not just the IRS after this gun store. This harassemet has been going on for a while and now with the IRS its 5 different agencies that have been going after him.
HEAVILY ARMED IRS and ATF Agents RAID Gun Store and SEIZE ALL the 4473’s… Why..?
Find – find out info about each of the agents and hunt them down and send them to hell where they belong
Thats not a bad plan. Its the way the other side does it
The gun registry already exists, now they just consolidate and organize it.
Gotta have something for that extra 85,000 “armed” (must be willing to shoot if necessary) IRS field agents… This was a test run, but why Montana? How many active FFLs are there in the US? How long will it take them to “raid” every FFL in the US? Why did this guy call an ATF agent (brain fart?) instead of his LAWYER? Bribem wants em ALL and he knows his time is limited… If I was an FFL there might be a mysterious fire in my records room…
its not going to be just FFL’S.
They will be doing the same thing for gun owners under some pretense of income-tax-something.
remember, using the treasury department power over taxes is how they finally got Al Capone.
it takes a lot of IRS agents to do mass nationwide raids to confiscate firearms as ‘evidence’ under some pretense of income-tax-something. Starting with the FFL’S to get 4473 records let’s them fill in the blanks on who has firearms. This is exactly what 80 thousand’ish armed IRS agents is for.
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Aw… now those black youtubers are going to get shadow banned and demonitized…
Well, those 4473 forms likely have the name of at least one person who belongs to NRA, or other pro-2A org, providing standing for taking on the NFA and GCA.
Hi, Walt.
Watching the actions of this administration is a lot like watching old news reels of Saddam’s take over of Iraq in 1979. The only real difference is Biden has access to better drugs and the video quality is clearer.
sucks
you’re right…it’s a test…now they’re waiting to see how we respond….they’re getting bolder and bolder…..
If the guy has 3000 4473 forms but only invoices for 2500, then there is potential evidence of underreporting sales.
Why have 2 sets of numbers? Because the ATF is keeping track of serial numbers but the IRS isn’t.
Simple really.
If that explanation were so simple, then the 4473s would have been on the warrant, then, wouldn’t they?
Too, what’s on the 4473 that’s not in the Bound Book?
SSNs.
ummm…. wait a minute. Those 82,000 new agents were going to help out over the phone with tax filing questions…. riiiiiight ??? Is this what you call mission- creep ??
Asking for a friend, as all of my collection is still lost at the bottom of Lake Superior.
As for the ATF knowing what I have, they already do. Used to have an FFL and had to turn in the records when I shut down the business. Some of my weapons requiring FFL transfers were from my business to my personal collection. Used to have a couple full auto weapons as well. So, yeah, they know me.
Add into the fact I also own a couple cannon and you get the picture. Until I sold the last automatic weapon, even way out here, I got a couple visits a year from the Feds with state and county back up. Just to inspect the facilities and insure proper storage of NFA weapons, of course. At least today, if a deputy shows up, it’s because they are actually there either because they were called, or invited as friends.
I’ve worked with various Federal agencies in the past. While I may like an individual agent, I do not trust them to do the right thing over follow orders. Reagan was right when he said the most frightening words in the American Lexicon were” We’re from the Government. We’re here to help you.” If you hear that, prepare to get screwed.
Reagan would know….he’s the one that banned open carry in commiefornia, once known as California.
There’s probably no antigun conspiracy here. Most likely, the Feds have been investigating him because they think he sold guns to people he shouldn’t have or because they think he’s tied to criminal groups.
I don’t know what’s going on, but I’m not ready to start saying “Conspiracy!” yet.
Bet it’s just another list to compare number of guns sold, see if underreporting of income is a thing.
Pretty simple outcome from this event. Any customer who bought a braced pistol in the last 13 years will soon be paid a visit by friendly JBTs.
exactly. the only words said here should have been “lawyer” and had his show up on scene video taping everything.
The reason for this is probably what it seems.
In recent months the ATF and IRS have been openly saying that they are cross referencing tax returns with gun purchases, ostensibly to find straw purchases which they claim can be identified by finding people who buy guns without the tax receipts indicating an income to support the purchases.
Which, when you think about it, is a nice excuse for a lot of fishing expeditions where one agency can go do something another agency can’t. It allows for a fair bit of “inter-agency cooperation” where they can use different authorities to get around various rules. Like the IRS tosses your house and takes all the guns on site as evidence as part of a “tax inquiry”, and of course has to run every gun they find past the ATF too, just to make sure it’s all straight and narrow.
Multiple methods to taxidermy felines and such.
They’re looking for straw purchasers.
Why didn’t the gun dealer call his lawyer?? Every FFL should have one on speed dial. Blabbing off to the world doesn’t help.
Is law enforcement sniffing around?? STFU and call a lawyer.
Most of you are assuming that the gun dealer has not broken any laws. It’s really is just a distraction to complain about some items that were seized because it’s up to the courts to except or reject the evidence. If the government has over stepped their boundries, the courts withe the help of his attorneys will step in and check them. My experience has shown me that if the feds come with guns and all the works, it’s probably because they have a good reason to believe that a crime has been committed. The conviction rate is probably 99 % in their favor. A gun store in Montana might not be the safest place for the feds. A gun store anywhere really. I can understand their precautions. Especially, in this political climate. Now my opinion is this : it is very unlikely that the feds are just messing with this guy. All of that talk about needing that paper work so that they can get information about his customers is hogwash. They already have that information. All gun sale records are in the hands of the feds. It’s the law. You need to show a license and a whole bunch stuff in order to purchase a gun. That’s is a good thing. They need that information about his customers to find out where the guns went after they were sold. Meaning , that paper work can help the investigators find out if the gun owner has been cheating the government or not. Should not all of us want to find out if there is some shady business going on with a gun dealer? Guns are designed for one purpose : that is to kill people and other animals. The owner should welcome the government for confiscating those documents because those forms will be able to prove he is not guilty of any crime. Any honest business man is not afraid the the tax men because he knows he runs a honest business. He should cooperate and let the them do what they have to do.All eyes are on the government. If they are up to no good, believe me, the world will find out. Immediately. It’s the internet ages. It’s not just ” Big Brother” watching. It’s everybody and their momma watching too. You can’t leave your house without being filmed every place you go. so relax. You folks sound paranoid. Every damn thing the feds do is not conspiratorial. Some times they are just doing their job.
“The owner should welcome the government for confiscating those documents because those forms will be able to prove he is not guilty of any crime.”
The public should never be in the position of proving they are not guilty by through use of any stratagem of govt. IIRC, govt is supposed to prove a person is guilty, not require a person to prove to the satisfaction of the stasi that the person is innocent.
There should be no means by which govt can launch a “fishing expedition”, looking for some sort of unknown infraction of law. Accepting that behavior from govt means govt can simply warp a warrant into a general warrant against anyone, just for the entertainment of government.
Fed.
Are you of NAZI heritage? You sure sound like it.
Speaking to Arnold in my above post
:)))) bro you shouldn’t advertise your brainwashing like that on the internet!
When did it become the mission of the IRS to identify straw purchases? The fact that documents were taken that were not part of the warrant should worry all businesses, and gun owners.
Before the store owner can recover the illegally taken docs, govt will have all of them copied, and will resist FOIA or subpoenas demanding the govt hand over the originals (while denying they have copies in possession).
Govt can be trusted only to expand their power over the public.
More fallout from the impotent Second Amendment.
America was sold down the river when the 18th-century founding fathers replaced Biblical responsibilities (based upon the moral law of God) for Enlightenment rights, and nothing demonstrates it better than the Second Amendment.
Think about it: The Amendment WITH the wording “shall not be infringed” is the MOST infringed, licensed, and limited Amendment of the entire twenty seven. Furthermore, a future generation of our posterity is likely to see the Second Amendment whittled away entirely or repealed altogether. This is inherent nature and danger of optional Enlightenment rights versus non-optional Biblical responsibilities, such as the following:
“Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword [or today’s equivalent] in their hand … this honor have all his saints. Praise ye Yah.” (Psalm 149:6-9)
“But if any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house [beginning with spiritual and physical protection], he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” (1 Timothy 5:8)
Which is more potent: 1) An optional right, or 2) A non-optional responsibility?
Which is more likely to be infringed, licensed, and ultimately abolished altogether?
Which did the pre-Second Amendment Americans look to for their authority to bear arms, with little or nor infringement?
For more, listen to “The Second Amendment: A Knife in a Gunfight,” delivered at the Springfield, Missouri Firearms and Freedom Symposium, at http://www.bibleversusconstitution.ORG/#FeaturedMessages
At this same location, you will also find a radio interview Larry Pratt (Executive Director of Gun Owners of America) conducted with me on this same subject. I think you’ll find Mr. Pratt’s remarks especially interesting.
See also online Chapter 12 “Amendment 2: Constitutional vs. Biblical Self-Defense” of “Bible Law vs. the United States Constitution: The Christian Perspective” at http://www.bibleversusconstitution.ORG/BlvcOnline/biblelaw-constitutionalism-pt12.html
These “agencies” are “poking the bear” when they mess with Montana’s gun rights.
Al Capone killed over 100 people who were competing with him during prohibition but guess what he went to prison for?
And he wasn’t arrested by a bunch of bean counters-IRS agents in CI have the same training us FBI ATF and US marshals. Read for Heaven’s sake instead of writing all the time when you have no idea what you’re talking about. Even the gun store store owner was more honest and reasonable than you guys.
it’s already been covered that the atf is keeping records far beyond what they legally are allowed to.
looks like they are now using the irs to help in there illegal record information harvest.
the gun shop should have called his attorney first, local pd and politicians second and then his local atf guy he thought he was on good terms with and said NO, you only get what the warrant states and I’m not helping your fishing trip.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thetruthaboutguns.com/surprise-atf-has-been-keeping-records-on-hundreds-of-millions-of-firearms-transactions/amp/
People are idiots if they contribute to his attorney’s fees. There’s a reason they were there. No one knows quite yet.
“People are idiots if they contribute to his attorney’s fees. There’s a reason they were there. No one knows quite yet.”
The founders went to great lengths to tell us to be highly skeptical of the government.
Totally agree with the points you have raised