If Police Won’t Stop the Violence and Looting, America’s Gun Owners Will

2020 riots looting violence

Image by Boch for TTAG

Widespread looting and rioting have gripped America these past few days. Business owners across Illinois, and likely much of the nation, have voted with their checkbook on the matter. They have little or no confidence in their local political leaders and law enforcement to maintain order.

Even small towns in the Land of Lincoln have experienced vicious looting this past weekend. Places you would never think would see the sorts of action America saw in Minneapolis, Baltimore and, back a few years ago, in Ferguson.

Big box stores in my area didn’t fare so well – even here in normally bucolic Bloomington, Illinois.

2020 riots looting violence

Image by Boch for TTAG

Police played cat and mouse with carloads of “protesters” for a couple of hours until both cops and crooks met in the “Battle of Target” at about 1:00a.m. Cops retreated after the bad guys chucked hammers, bottles, rocks and bricks at them.

Seems the local police decided that meeting deadly force with deadly force wasn’t the outcome their leadership wanted, so they retreated. Looters then stormed the store and gutted the interior as cops literally watched a few car lengths away. Before the officers finally drove away, that is.

Later in the day, thanks to video, the whole community saw the impotence of their local law enforcement in maintaining order.

The video is NSFW (language primarily).

 

While the video above isn’t exactly high definition in quality, viewers can easily discern police cruisers not even twenty yards away by the reflection of the emergency lights on the wall of the store.

Here’s more from a few minutes later.

Meanwhile, one of our local gun shops that specializes in self-defense tools and tactical gear faced down several carloads of looters through the night.

Why did these would-be looters leave without causing so much as a scuff upon the business? Because the owner holed up inside with hard armor and his copy of America’s favorite rifle, the AR-15.

Those opportunistic predators wanted no part of meaningful resistance.

2020 riots looting violence

Image by Boch for TTAG

Hours later, even businesses that weren’t looted voted with their checkbooks and boarded up their businesses.

2020 riots looting violence

Image by Boch for TTAG

Stores like Walmart in Normal, which experienced limited looting, looked like fortresses late in the afternoon prior to closing early.

2020 riots looting violence

Image by Boch for TTAG

It’s time for law enforcement to step up. Or gun owners will.

Frankly, the time for flowery talk about righteous protest and group hugs is over. The nationwide orgy of looting has NOTHING to do with a cop in Minneapolis killing a black man.

It’s time for law enforcement across America to take meaningful and decisive action against looters. These hooligans aren’t protesting anything at oh-dark-thirty, or in broad daylight lately. They’re opportunistic, violent criminals.

The police need to take action to stop this. If law enforcement can’t (or won’t because they’ve been hamstrung by local mayors or their appointed politician chiefs of police), then within a few days America’s gun owners will get involved on their own.

Good guy gun owners did what police couldn’t do in Ferguson a few years ago.  Local political leaders in Missouri didn’t have the stomach to let cops restore law and order. Instead, they tied the cops’ hands with limited rules of engagement. And night after night the rioters continued to loot and burn businesses.

The 2014 rioting in Ferguson ended within a day or two after media reports of gun owners, not cops, standing on rooftops. These men (and women) made it clear that arsonists would be promptly shot on sight. And maybe looters, too. And guess what?  Suddenly the streets were peaceful and empty after the sun set.

ABCNews, among many others, covered how gun owners volunteered to help secure businesses from looters and arsonists.

When night falls on Ferguson, Missouri, Sam Andrews gets to work.

Andrews – dressed in full camouflage and armed with an assault rifle and handgun – climbs to the roof of a dentist’s office to begin his nightly surveillance. He’s a member of the Oath Keepers, a group taking up armed positions on the streets and rooftops with the intent of protecting local businesses.

He says he’s here to defend “The best part of America, the creative part, the small businesses, the hardest working people in the United States of America. To defend them from arson.”

While some business owners are embracing the presence of Andrews and other do-it-yourself patrolmen with the Oath Keepers, many others – including police – are uncomfortable with the group’s mission…

Natalie DuBose’s bake shop, “Natalie’s Cakes and More,” was broken into and looted.

“I didn’t have the extra savings or extra money to replace everything that was destroyed,” she told ABC News following the vandalism. “The threat of not being able to take care of your children makes you feel like less than a human being.”

DuBose’s story caught Andrews’ attention. He was watching the news at home 40 miles away.

“I can’t even imagine a governor that would leave a woman like this and her business to burn, like they did,” Andrews said. “But I value this woman as much as anything I’ve ever seen in my life.”

“They were calling us the KKK, they were calling us the police. We were saying ‘We’re not the police, we’re here to defend you. We’re here to defend your rights,’” Andrews told ABC News.

Will it take America’s gun owners defending businesses from feral bands of looters in towns large and small to stop this free-for-all for criminals?  Wait and see.

comments

  1. avatar Mike H says:

    POTUS said this today

    “I am mobilizing all available federal resources — civilian and military — to stop the rioting and looting, to end the destruction and arson, and to protect the rights of law-abiding Americans, including your Second Amendment rights. Therefore, the following measures are going into effect immediately: …”

    Zero elaboration. Not even sure why he brought it up.

    1. avatar Debbie W. says:

      Why let the enemy know what to expect?

      1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

        “Why let the enemy know what to expect?”

        Bingo.

        Simple message – Clean your house, or I’ll clean it for you. It’s their choice…

        1. avatar Drumpf'sNoBobbyFischer says:

          This thing all the Drumpf fans do where they 4D chess all his tweets is hilarious. It’s like whatever the opposite of TDS is. He could crap into his own hand and smear it on his forehead and you’d find a way to be all, ‘This is to keep thems DeMoNcRATs guessin!!1!’

          Too funny, please, keep it up. Endless entertainment while the country falls into disarray.

    2. avatar Lucas says:

      Maybe he’s pandering to the 2A crowd since November elections are coming up.

      1. avatar MtnDewey says:

        guess since they couldn’t go shopping, they too this opportunity to get some new threads.

      2. avatar TrumpDoesntCareAboutYouOrYour2ARights says:

        Uh, ya think? He’s shown dozens of times he doesn’t give a fuck about the 2A. Makes it even funnier watching these phonies on here claim they’re 2A supporters while supporting the guy who is fine w/ EPO’s and banning bump stocks.

        Supporting Trump is a vote against the 2A and your own self-interests. But then again, America has a rich history of voting against it’s own interests…

        /shrug

        1. avatar Thixotropic says:

          Yep the idiot trolls have arrived.

          1 troll multiple User-id’s.

          They said the army of Soros paid trolls were being organized and here they are.

          Best to just point them out for their cowardice and ignore them.

        2. avatar Accur81 says:

          Who you gonna vote for POTUS to protect your gun rights then, genious?

          I agree he’s not all that pro-gun, but he helps get conservative judges appointed and ruled guns stores as essential. That’s a whole lot better than sleepy Joe.

        3. avatar Debbie W. says:

          Hey TDCAY2ARs…Are you and Drumpf’sNoBobbyFischer June 1, 2020 at 22:25 the same POS? I suspect so…Right or wrong put a sign on your forehead that reads: “Don’t Slap Poop Splatters.”

          TRUMP/PENCE 2020.

        4. avatar B says:

          LoL. You go Deb.

        5. avatar Matt says:

          I have no love of Trump, but you fight with what you got and Trump is it for now. And understanding the second amendment does not come naturally to Trump, hence the bump stock ban. But he does listen to his base if they scream loud enough. We all just need to encourage the base to do that.

          By the way, I cahoot with no one.

    3. avatar Hannibal says:

      If anything, that’s a very worrying statement.

      Whenever someone talks about how much they care about the 2nd Amendment as they’re about to pass laws or take some sort of action… pass the lube.

      1. avatar Dave says:

        Trump does not care about the Constitution or rights at all. Too often the commentariat here does its damnedest to look the other way on that matter, and makes no effort to hold his feet to the fire.

        1. avatar Bierce Ambrose says:

          When you’re dealing with an opportunizt, give him an opportunity to do what you want.

    4. avatar Craig in IA says:

      “Zero elaboration. Not even sure why he brought it up.”

      My take is he’s trying to shame the lefty governors and mayors into acting on their own as well as reminding the voters/citizens out there that the problems are local first. State-wide, national and global follow afterwards. It’s not Trump hamstringing the cops and even the national guard, nor the average American citizen who are having to sit it out as spectators as well as targets.

      Condemning Antifa and others as terorist orgs may be a good start as well, since many of the mayors (Portland, Seattle, NYC come to mind) are in sympathetic solidarity with these groups in an attempt to side with the protesters, most of whom are not part of the organized looting. There are quite a few people concerned about the issues of protest and the right to do so who are not in any way connected to the rioting and looting. If we stand for the Second Amendment it would be smart to stand for the rest of the Constitution. People out holding signs and chanting are not necessarily a problem but organized outside agitators sent into a large gathering have little trouble whipping the crowd up into a frenzy like a pack of dogs when one of them yips.

      I’m not at all in any favor of closing down lines of communications among American citizens in any manner but it shouldn’t be too difficult for DOJ or other snoops to find and follow the money trail to these terrorist orgs. Shut that off- Andy Cuomo, among others, has tried to do the same with gun manufacturers and dealers- simple thing I’d bet to figure out the banking here and easy to trace it back to the contributors as well. If you want a real thrill, go to the Antifa website- all set up to take your Paypal and other donations.

    5. avatar BusyBeef says:

      Don’t doubt he won’t hesitate to mobilize them when it’s time to confiscate your “assault weapons.”

      And if not him, he’s setting the precedent for the next President who made it clear that he does intend to take your rifle.

      1. avatar Jim Bullock says:

        I see 2A comment as a brush back at govs n similar who’d like to layer genral confiscation (from peaceful n law abiding) on their general curfews (on innocent), on their general lockdowns (of healthy n low-risk): go after the people running amok.

        Let’s recall disarming folks during Katrina.

        Very interesting messaging prep in the safety n natl guard notions. Trump’s feral sense of positioning for advantage is astonishing.

  2. avatar Manse Jolly says:

    I brought this up on a different thread, it bears repeating.

    It’s time for the President to activate COG plans and shut down internet routing partially. FaceBook, Youtube, and especially any messaging service need to be made to go dark.

    Communications needs to be cut off between the different rioting groups.

    Step one.

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      Look at how quick the snowflakes throw away the 1st Amendment while pretending to believe in the Constitution.

      1. avatar End Of The Road says:

        Exactly.

      2. avatar Dave says:

        Well said.

    2. avatar MtnDewey says:

      yeah and cellular, and mail and HAM radios, and smoke signals…..don’t condone more infringements upon our rights…

      1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

        “…yeah and cellular, and mail and HAM radios,…”

        You don’t capitalize ham radio you brain-damaged fuckwit.

        Is it too much to ask for trolls who aren’t total goobers?

        Oh, yeah, Macy’s in midtown Manhattan is being looted :

        “Feels like a very organized effort tonight – kids have turned up with hammers and big bags, they have spotters on the corners and cars ready to go. Group of about 500 kids now running up Fifth Ave looting whatever they want”

        https://twitter.com/rachelolding/status/1267619316326895616

    3. avatar NoNewPCIeFor2020 says:

      LMAO, guess the Constitution’s a suggestion right? Just like the 2A?

      Get fucked.

    4. avatar Debbie W. says:

      Well manse you may have well meaning intentions but what amounts to cutting phone lines is putting another turd in the punchbowl. And with the all the slanderous libelous anti-Trump trolls on this forum there is already more than enough turds in the punchbowl.

      Nothing lower than politically inept twerps who talk guns out one side of their mouth and out the other side of their mouth they bash the main reason there are more firearms and ammo available today than any other time in US history. If left up to them they’d be lint licking hilliary clintoon’s pant suits and they would be lucky to get a box of ammo after a 2 month waiting period.

      Crybabies miss their ersatz bump stock machine guns because they are probably too cheap and can’t qualify for the real deal. They probably cannot afford those selector triggers that fire upon release either.

      The only good POTUS bashing trolls do is put a sht grin on the face of Gun Control democRats.

      1. avatar Matt says:

        I take it that you didn’t understand what really happened when Trump ordered ATF to work out a way to ban bump stocks. As a serious piece of firearm accessory, the bump stock was a stupid toy, but for ATF to do what Trump wanted, they had to do a whole lot of mental gymnastics in order to do it. That same mental gymnastics can now be used by other presidents to ban EVERYTHING that had previously been legal to own. This was never about poor hicks who couldn’t afford to buy $20,000 NFA toys.

      2. avatar Manse Jolly says:

        “…Well manse you may have well meaning intentions but what amounts to cutting phone lines is putting another turd in the punchbowl…”

        I understand what you are saying..However. Under Continuity of Government plans, that were passed into law by our elected representatives, ANY President has near total power over pretty much everything. This includes the FCC and every other agency/dept. one can think of.

        Never to be used lightly, this authority can be used to restrict certain types of data traffic along the major internet backbones.

        No, I’m not saying cut off cell voice traffic or ‘phone lines’

        What I am saying is that citizens do not have a Constitutional Right to Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, social media platforms that are being USED to coordinate anarchist attacks on metro areas. There is NO 1st Amendment issue here contrary to what the trolls are saying. Note I did not mention the Press outlets.

        1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, social media platforms that are being USED to coordinate anarchist attacks on metro areas.

          You don’t need Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, or other social media platforms… Today all you need is a box of cheap “burner” smartphones.. You can send messages to hundreds of people via teleconferencing and if you shut that down I’m sure there are people on tv and am radio that are complicit to carry the message…. The only way to totally stop communications among the “bad guys” is to stop ALL communications… yeah a global EMP would work (for awhile) til they figured out how to use carrier pigeons then we would need to breed more hawks and falcons to hunt those things and kill them… Bottom line, the real answer is find the source and stifle it, but they have been working at this for years (decades?) and most likely have a leadership structure that is deeply layered with the next person in line equally capable of filling the slot above them… So what’s left? The money, cut off their means to buy shit, if they can’t pay they can’t play, no army can function very long without either money or popular support and these people move further away from that support with every building they burn… Does anyone else think it’s strange that while the looting, burning and violence has ramped up, the DOW has risen by over 350 points in the last two days?

        2. avatar Manse Jolly says:

          “…Today all you need is a box of cheap “burner” smartphones.. You can send messages to hundreds of people via teleconferencing and if you shut that down I’m sure there are people on tv and am radio that are complicit to carry the message….”

          You know that the Telecommunications industry has been in bed with the Feds since the 1950s correct?

          No such thing as ‘burner phones’ Not when you can replace a carriers cell signal with one of your own…Heck there was a cop shop out in LA doing this IIRC to catch dopers.

          It seems to me that whatever is being tried now by the various local leaders ….Ain’t working, not one bit.

          As a said earlier, the people who are innocent will be taken care of on a case by case basis.

          Better a little pain and hardship than being shot on sight after curfew once these inept local leaders get frustrated….hopefully the terrorists..(that’s what they are) will stop this madness very soon

        3. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          So, you are not aware that there are cheap phones for which you purchase minutes on line or by phone? These phones come with a number and up to 60 minutes use time.. All you need is a prepaid credit card, a fake phone number (grab one from the phone book) and a temp email (set up in 2 minutes on a stolen OR a library laptop) purchase is totally anonymous and you use it one time and destroy (burn) it. Hence the TERM “burner phone”.
          Of course the more “connected” and in the know persons such as yourself would have WAY more sophisticated means of communication but that’s how the poor and uninformed do it…

        4. avatar Manse Jolly says:

          I know what they are and as I said, no such animal when the carrier signal I provide is the one you are connecting ‘the burner’ phone to. I can route all traffic through what ever box and analysis device I need to easy peasy.

          Stingray in the civilian world, although that’s not what the Army nomenclature is. https://abc7.com/stingray-harris-lapd-lasd/421190/

          I want these riots stopped before it gets worse and that’s my only point. Being thirsty is better than being shot after curfew and I’m afraid it’s coming to that. I don’t want any soldier Guard or Active having to decide to shoot a citizen. IMO, setting a perimeter and causing personal discomfort physical and mental is better option.

          Do you or anyone else have a different one cause I will listen.

        5. avatar neiowa says:

          MAXX has been reading Clancey for 20yrs and knows all the spy shit.

      3. avatar jwtaylor says:

        Sometimes, when I read your posts, I have to remember you’re the dim bulb who couldn’t figure out what a byline is, and then doubled down on stupid after several people explained it to you.

        If you can’t figure out the bump stock ban was a bad thing, please, at least just shut up so you don’t make the rest of those of us who will vote for Trump despite of his shitty 2A stance look worse.

        Lock all that stupid inside Debbie, the light of day isn’t doing anyone any good.

    5. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

      Strategically your idea could have merit if 1 the leadership organizing the event was known and reachable 2 there were enough resources to pull off a likely nationwide string of raids while still having standby units to maintain order and 3 for the important one we have already given up on the Constitution and idea of maintaining the republic. I hope 1 is true pretty sure 2 isn’t anywhere near close and 3 I pray will never be the case in my lifetime. Be careful with the unintended consequences especially with good intentions.

      1. avatar frank speak says:

        what we’re dealing with here seems very much like a well-coordinated military operation that we seem slow to respond to or fully understand what they’re up to…we’re learning as we go but it seems…so far, at least…that their tactics are superior to ours…ultimately they will retreat in the face of overwhelming force which appears to be working for now…would very much like to know who’s behind this and funding it…..

        1. avatar Ed Schrade says:

          Funding by George Soros.

      2. avatar Manse Jolly says:

        You are on the right path.

        Step two- After certain platforms and comms are cut, Pick the largest potential gathering in a major city and pull in a couple of combat arms battalions. Set the perimeter. No one in or out period.

        Cut off the water supply to that area and wait.

        Escalate as necessary until the anarchist are broken. Gather intelligence and chase down the leaders around the country. Repeat in other major metro area as needed.

        Siege. It’s worked for thousands of years if done right. The honest protesters will turn on the anarchists and looters very quickly.

        Wait til the true snowflakes show up here and start yelling ‘but muh facebook!’

        1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

          Gonna have to stop you there siege is a tactic that would be downright horrific for indescriminate mass punishment. Saw the aftereffects on deployment and learned how much worse Iraq had it. What you propose would make the Corona deaths look tame within the first one or two targeted cities. This is a tactic I could only see a fanboy of Stalin approving.

        2. avatar Manse Jolly says:

          I was in Baghdad, went in right behind 3rd ID, spent 23 and some change total in uniform. I’m not suggesting what you are imagining. No shooting, however fear is a big motivator and my intent is to show them fear.

          A couple of days without twitter and those wanne-be’s would break. Cut the water off and they’ll realize what hardship is like, most kids have no clue what it is to be cold, wet, and hungry. I would always leave room to allow any trapped residents to gain safe passage and receive aid.

          If they resist the next step is shutting off the electricity.

          My primary goal is to break them mentally and gather intelligence about who ever started this crap. Chase down the leaders whomever they are and give them a ticket to Quantomeno.

        3. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

          How do you plan to evacuate or supply those not involved who often fall under the vulnerable category of health (often in the city for the hospital and associated care facilities)? If you were in Baghdad you know damn well they did the majority of the dying. With that said yes you would eventually catch a lot of the operatives but I would imagine the NSA would be far less disruptive in identifying the command and logistics for arrests…… assuming they are still doing the domestic spying.

        4. avatar neiowa says:

          This isn’t Warsaw 1944.

    6. avatar Matt says:

      You’re awfully quick to demand the suspension of the Bill of Rights. Speaking as someone who lived through a real martial law situation under Ferdinand Marcos, you need to believe me when I tell you that you do not want what you’re asking for. Once a government is given unlimited power, it takes human lives to regain lost rights.

  3. avatar Alexander says:

    “Seems the local police decided that meeting deadly force with deadly force wasn’t the outcome their leadership wanted,” instead they prefer meeting no resistance with deadly force… Obviously, the socialists are exploiting any crisis, but it is also obvious that the very thick blue line that the police has painted between themselves and the citizens is now coming to an explosion point. In Minneapolis, there were no good guys – so the good citizens have little choice but to watch from the sidelines and allow the shit to percolate. Unfortunate.

  4. avatar jwm says:

    There is a backlash coming. I figure the November elections are going to the right. People feel unsafe and insecure they tend to lean right. The dems created a monster in antifa and now its on the loose and they can’t get it back in the cage. Some of the antifa will be arrested. Some will be killed. Doesn’t matter. They’ve done all the damage they can and now its backlash time.

    1. avatar Kyle in Upstate NY says:

      Been thinking this myself. Sure hope you are right.

      1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

        I hope you are both correct.

        1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

          The same, but I’m planning like it won’t….

        2. avatar jwm says:

          Always prepare for the worst. I’m ready for a major earthquake, I hope. And I’m ready to go to war again.

          Having said that it is my sincerest hope that I do not have to put my preps into practice.

    2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

      Might have one more nationwide surprise before they crawl back into their mommies basement… Soros money runs deep and he’s not going to let this thing go to waste as he plays out his hatred for America…

      1. avatar Stephen Fogg says:

        What happened to our billionaires like the Koch brothers. Time for them or their heirs to pony up to help offset the influence of Bloombug and Soros.

        1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          One Koch died and the other one hates Trump so much he’d rather see the country burn, most of the Uber-rich are liberals and are probably experiencing mega orgasms every time a fire is set, those people don’t give a flying fuck about the U.S. They can always move their businesses and their money overseas…

        2. avatar Art out West says:

          “Our billionaires”

          We Americans don’t really have billionaires on our side.

          The left leaning oligarchs have billionaires, and the right leaning oligarchs have billionaires. The Marxists, Bankers, Hollywood, Wall Street, crony capitalists, and champagne Republicans all have billionaires. We don’t

          We have millions of quality working class, middle class, and upper middle class people on our side.

        3. avatar Rusty Chains says:

          Not only does the remaining Koch hate Trump, he is very much pro-illegal immigration just like the US Chamber of Commerce. They want cheap labor and don’t give a crap how much the illegals hurt the economic position of the middle class since where they come in it puts downward pressure on all but the highest wages. We are better off without them.

        4. avatar jwm says:

          One of the biggest lies told to the American people is that the big bad billionaires are all with the gop.

          The wealthy white guys back the dems.

    3. avatar frank speak says:

      obviously we need better intel…here’s hoping we can acquire some…saw that in Pittsburgh tonight where we were tipped- off where they would be and when…and were able to mass sufficient resources to blunt their effort…need to see more of that in other places…the legit protesters can be a good source of info…need to make use of that….

  5. avatar Rgallagher says:

    What’s wrong with you we pay for police and armies why would you want to be a vigilante? Violence only begets violence. I’ve some nonsense on this site but that’s just plain bullshit only giving the anti gunners something else to slash away our right if you’re being attached that’s one thing but to go out in the streets with intent to do physical harm or to kill is just stupid….stop and think!!!!

    1. avatar Kyle in Upstate NY says:

      Violence only begets violence

      That depends. Or it may make the looting/arson/violence end real fast. If people start fighting back en masse, I think most of these looters will cower.

    2. avatar former water walker says:

      Well duh rgallagher! The po-leece did the same sissy BS 120miles nw of Bloomington. I’m 66 years old but I was ready to plug some scum. That’s why they have guns. That’s WHY I have an AR15. Boch is right. You’re a retarded troll I’ve NEVER seen before…

      1. avatar Boomflake in FullGeriatricForce says:

        You’re 66 years old, so no one is surprised by your bullshit views. Any other bullshit you’d like to share? Surprised you could figure out the internet, boomflake.

        1. avatar DinWA says:

          Is that how you are to anyone who has more experience than you?

        2. avatar jwm says:

          Another snowflake praying that his parents and grandparents die so he can have their stuff and not have to beg for handouts anymore.

          I’m surprised boomflake took time out from looting to leave a comment.

    3. avatar frank speak says:

      would seem those who have chosen to defend their property with sufficient force have fared better than most…even in New York you can shoot someone for attempted arson…those statutes are already in place….

    4. avatar Matt says:

      Violence begets violence? You are such a Fudd.

    5. avatar Warwolf says:

      Give violence a chance!

  6. avatar Broke_It says:

    It took almost 2 hours to pack and stage everything, but if the fight comes to me and mine it’s gonna be real fucking ugly.

  7. avatar Ralph says:

    “Seems the local police decided that meeting deadly force with deadly force wasn’t the outcome their leadership wanted”

    Leadership my ass. Cops are mighty tough when there are four of them against an unarmed man on the ground in handcuffs. Otherwise, they are experts in cowering in their vehicles or behind them, like in Parkland.

    So tell me, if (as we all know) cops have no duty to protect anyone, and certainly no duty to protect anyone’s property, what good are they?

    1. avatar Mad Max says:

      They are a standing army to be misused by politicians.

      1. avatar Art out West says:

        Politicians are just tools of the oligarchs. Bought and owned

      2. avatar MarkPA says:

        Your’s is the first mention I’ve seen as to the core source of the problem.

        No one has chased the chain-of-command from the cop (who abused/killed George Floyd) to his Sargent, . . ., mayor, city council. At least I’ve never seen any such discussion in the public square.

        Why do city councils tax their residents for a police force? To protect the citizens? Or, to serve as the municipality’s muscle? Taxes aren’t going to be paid voluntarily. Ultimately, someone will have to go to close-up shops that don’t pay business taxes. Someone has to ticket traffic violations and arrest those who don’t pay their tickets; a significant source of municipal revenue. City councils hire cops primarily to secure their own power. The citizens’ safety is secondary.

        If the chief wants to keep his job he has to recruit candidates with the muscle and the attitude to achieve the council’s objectives. He’s not looking for MA degrees in the Humanities. He’s looking for military veterans; and, not necessarily those with the best scores in Constitutional law.

        Candidates with just the right personality disorder will be particularly attracted to the career choice. These guys will get promoted to ensure that just the right desired attitudes are cultivated in the rank and file.

        I am NOT arguing, here, that a large fraction of the police have a severe problem. Just that a few (1% – 5%?) have a severe problem. Some larger fraction have a much lesser problem; but, there is likely still something of a personality disorder in this fraction. Were this not the case the police force couldn’t accomplish either its primary nor its secondary purposes.

        Nothing we have seen serves to motivate politicians to alter their recruiting or retention policies. After all this is over, city councils are still going to want to recruit and retain police to serve as the muscle to collect taxes. None of the previous riots resulted in any serious, effective, change to these policies or objectives. The politicians from those eras were re-elected; the politicians of this era will also be reelected.

        Only the voters have the power to initiate change. Remarkably, they haven’t figured this out and haven’t effected change. Those with the most skin-in-the-game are minority voters who control the elections in densely populated inner cities. They complain continuously and loudly about the police use of excessive force. Not only when a member of their community dies. (Those cases are relatively few and most are justified by a cool reading of the facts.) Rather, LESS-than-lethal harassment of community members is a routine, daily, occurrence. Police are NOT supposed to HARASS the public; they are supposed to arrest and charge violators of the law.

        This voting block belongs to the Democrat Party. So, the Party picks the candidates and these candidates win the elections. And, then, pursue recruitment and retention policies that serve their own purposes, not those of the electors. Only when the electors figure this game out is there any possibility of change.

        Also, two other policies deserve mention: police unions; and, qualified immunity. Police officers have a vested interest in keeping their jobs and pensions. Politicians have a vested interest in preserving the current recruitment and retention policies. When an officer crosses the line far enough he will – often enough – retain his job through the blue wall of silence, union, arbitration and case-dismissal on qualified immunity. These are maintained by the politicians so that the politicians can wash-their-hands of responsibility. “We tried to discipline Officer UnFriendly; but ‘the system’ protected him!” And who protects ‘the system’?

        A lot to digest in the foregoing. I wish it didn’t seem so plausible; but, it IS plausible. And, IF it is a correct analysis, it’s NOT going to change. The voters aren’t going to figure this out and pursue corrective action at the polls.

        The point of the OP seems to be the only apparent avenue for resolution. We the People will expect the police to perform their primary function (as described above) while the original notion of the “militia” will continue to serve its original primary function: maintaining public order via its ubiquitous presence.

    2. avatar No one of consequence says:

      Somebody has to fill out the paperwork when the dust has settled and the smoke clears.

    3. avatar Accur81 says:

      What good are lawyers?

      Go easy on painting with a broad brush, there. Some of us are in this thing – clearing freeways, making felony vandalism and burglary arrests, chasing idiots, letting loose bean bags and rubber bullets, and have had very little sleep in the past few days.

      1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

        Albany has been doing a lot better after the initial suprise riots this weekend. The surrounding areas learned to watch for bricks being dropped off on the sidewalk and younger adults with backpacks in the crowds.

    4. avatar frank speak says:

      most of those arrested are quickly back on the street the following night…few are detained either because of the pandemic, liberal judges or being bailed-out by those on the left…for the cops it’s an exercise in futility and they are just going through the motions

  8. avatar Stephen Fogg says:

    Don’t take up arms to protect business property unless it is your own. That’s why business owners have insurance. Draw the line where your property begins and be ready to defend “your space” when the North Koreans and the Zombies arrive.

    1. avatar tdiinva says:

      Insurance doesn’t cover losses from war or civil disturbances. Your meme is busted. First and only comment on this article.

      1. avatar CarlosT says:

        Depends on the policy. Some do cover some of those types of losses.

        1. avatar Cam says:

          After 9/11 almost every policy has that exclusion. I shopped for year and countless insurance companies and only one would insure civil unrest or act of terror and it was close to three times more.

      2. avatar frank speak says:

        generally true…which makes this all the more tragic for small business owners…

    2. avatar MarkPA says:

      “Draw the line where your property begins and be ready to defend ‘your space’ . . .”

      Very tricky problem.

      There is a phenomena economists call the “free rider effect”. For example, women in general benefit as “free riders” when muggers know that a large enough fraction of women are carrying concealed. If this effect kicks-in with 1/3 of women carrying then 2/3 of women don’t need to carry. They only need to vote for politicians who will protect the right-to-carry.

      Suppose the gun-store owner protects his shop but won’t do anything to protect the neighboring bakery owned by a widow. You would seem – rightly – to argue that if the widow won’t take-up arms to defend her own bakery then the gun-shop owner shouldn’t assume legal liability on his part to protect her property.

      The weak point here is that it leads to a logical conclusion in the widow’s mind. There is nothing it it for her to vote for a politician who defends HIS right to arms. Her sentiments – and interest – lies in voting for a politician who will hire more police. When sentiment and interest align, nothing will persuade her to change her vote.

      Suppose, however, that the gun-shop owner lobbies for legislation protecting him from vulnerability (civil and criminal) if he protects his own property AND the property of OTHERS with lethal force. He has a personal incentive to seek such legislation; he should be EAGER for his neighbor (the widow bakeshop owner) to free-ride on his legislation.

      Should such a bill pass, the widow now HAS a stake in the right-to-arms. She won’t exercise this right herself. (She won’t carry a handgun in her purse nor an AR-15 outside her shop.) Nevertheless, she will struggle with: her daughter’s right to carry a gun in her purse; and, her neighbor’s right to use lethal force to defend his shop (and perhaps her’s as well) in the event of a riot.

      By this line of reasoning we can split the widow’s sentiments from her INTEREST in defending her bakery. As commonly observed in the founding era, when sentiments don’t aline with interest it is the latter which inevitably prevails.

    1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

      https://twitter.com/i/status/1267539936401592320

      “The people in Polk County like guns, they have guns, I encourage them to own guns… And if you try to break into their homes to steal, to set fires, I’m highly recommending they blow you back out of the house with their guns.”

      That is my county sheriff, Grady “Because they ran out of bullets” Judd.

      And we here *love* him… 🙂

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        Ask him to send a card of encouragement to our Sheriff Villanueva, will ya? Villanueva hates the very thought of a gun in a private citizen’s hands.

    2. avatar Chief Censor says:

      The sheriff office is the better option, which is why they created the police departments instead.

      1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

        You are an oddly interesting mix of information and perspective.

        1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

          He’s toying with us like cat does a mouse that it caught…

  9. avatar MtnDewey says:

    so sad. it is definitely here. 1776-2020

  10. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    Answer,Rooftop Americans,the 2 nd. works every time since penned.

  11. avatar Matt in Oklahoma says:

    They bought a gun. They didn’t buy the heart to go with it. They go together but aren’t the same.

  12. avatar jwtaylor says:

    Nothing is different now than it has ever been. You have always been on your own. No one was ever coming to help you.

    1. avatar CarlosT says:

      At minimum, you should make your plans on that basis.

      In a crisis, civil authorities will likely be overwhelmed, and maybe hostile. At the same time, the allies you have planned with may have problems of their own, and won’t be able to aid you. In the end, the only person can be 100% certain will be there when you’re in an emergency is you.

    2. avatar Broke_It says:

      Except now the Mrs. let me sandbag the living room and a few other strategic spots in the house.

      1. avatar frank speak says:

        starting to look like the acquisition of that night-scope was a good idea….

  13. avatar CarlosT says:

    Because I like this society, thank you very much. What I really like about it, the mob is seeking to destroy, and what I don’t like about, the mob is seeking to maximize.

    This society has been working to increase freedom for centuries. It has been increasing prosperity and quality of life. Has it been always fair. No. Has it always been steady? No. But before we decided to burn it all down, this was the best time and place to live in all of human history.

    1. avatar CarlosT says:

      Well, I was replying to a post that disappeared, so that looks a little weird.

      Oh well.

      1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

        Dan may have been zapping posts by IP addy…

      2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        Get used to it, Carlos. Happens to me almost once per week.

  14. avatar strych9 says:

    OK, so I’m going to stay out of the prognostication or suggestions of my own opinion on what can/should happen here and stick with some facts as best I can tell what they are. I’m also going to drasitically limit my scope here because… well, this is all over the map and I don’t have time to type out 45 pages that no one will read.

    First, look at this: https://ibb.co/XFcZb0G I snagged this last night before it got taken down from the OP and I’m posting it here anonymously.

    That’s an image of what is purported to be instructions taken off a guy actual protesters grabbed and turned over to the cops. I can’t prove that this is true, but it jives with a lot of the other research I’ve done and it certainly fits with what police intelligence units have been picking up about the use of encrypted apps to coordinate certain things. It also fits with videos from Minneapolis where people who certainly look the part for ANTIFA were captured on video laying groundwork for the taking of Precinct 3.

    Look at that closely. Page 13 of 26. Here’s what purports to be page 1. https://me.me/i/friends-of-democracy-nfidential-level7-ab-c-action-bwi041815-his-20392268 Draw your own conclusions about who’s doing what here. I’m not going to say this is unaltered.

    But, let’s look at a couple of things here. What are 328BG comms? 328BG is a model of cellphone made by LG and sold, so far as I can tell, exclusively as a prepaid phone. Does that fit with the intelligence about the use of encrypted apps? Sure fucking does.

    Now, read through that and tell me that, if this is legit, which I actually think it is tell me this isn’t preplanned. Friendly BWI and LE? BWI, so far as I know, is the code for Baltimore Washington International Thurgood Airport. Friendly LE? Dafuq?

    Agitorgs? Orgs? Excuse me? AEOC? Is that a Alternate Emergency Operations Center?

    This is fucked. FUCKED.

    1. avatar strych9 says:

      Also note, that stuffs older material from a few years back. The fuck have they been up to since then?

      1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

        “Friendly LE”

        How often have we seen LE on the west coast do nothing when Trump supporters get attacked at a demonstration?

        1. avatar Chief Censor says:

          There is a reason why you should abolish the departments like I have been telling you.

        2. avatar frank speak says:

          …or forcing the secret service to defend the White House pretty much on their own….and taking significant casualties…thankfully there are troops there tonight…..

      2. avatar No one of consequence says:

        So why would an agitator have been carrying a page from a 5-year-old ops plan? That makes little sense.

        Just thinking devil’s advocate thoughts. But it does look bad.

        1. avatar strych9 says:

          That longer post is purported to be from the Freddy Grey Protests. They’ve been re-making the rounds. I wasn’t really paying that much attention back then because fuck my pancreas.

          As I said, the question is what they’ve been up to since then.

          Censor seems to enjoy making vague claims that he knows but won’t enlighten us. Maybe he does. I dunno.

          What I do know is something I said here back in 2017. At some point these people push it far enough that the gloves come off and people start dropping rioters and looters in the street en masse. Maybe it’s the cops, maybe it’s the military, maybe it’s civilians who’ve just had enough. I don’t know, but I strongly suspect it kicks off a bloodbath.

        2. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

          This is one hour old from Buffalo, Ny :

          https://twitter.com/YousefNH2/status/1267637687554650112

          I hope they got that SUV. At least one cop is seriously fucked up…

        3. avatar Chief Censor says:

          @Geoff

          The military is playing into their hands.

          I wonder if the Muslims are ready? They should be able to get 1 or 2. First tactics must change. A white supremacist attack/mass shooting could be in the works.

        4. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          So why would an agitator have been carrying a page from a 5-year-old ops plan?

          Maybe they’ve been working trying to find the right time to implement the plan for the last 5 years….

      3. avatar former water walker says:

        Of course it’s “planned”…this may go over the heathen’s head. We are in the last day’s. The last hour of the last day’s. All HELL is literally breaking out. Earthquakes,famine,pestilence(COVID),rioting,looting,locusts covering Asia& Africa,stealing the election,Chinese war and ad infinitum nauseam. Burner phones too. JESUS is about to return. He’s not happy!

        1. avatar Weapon of War says:

          Definite “birth pangs” for sure!

        2. avatar Chief Censor says:

          Birth pains are being induced for sure. Obviously. That’s when you know Americans are phony ass Christians.

        3. avatar GodDoesn'tExist says:

          LOL look at this guy, believing in god like he’s more than an imaginary friend that hates gays. LOLOLOLOLOL sorry bud, some of us live in reality.

    2. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

      “Agitorgs? Orgs? Excuse me? AEOC? Is that a Alternate Emergency Operations Center?”

      From the top of that page :

      “Action Oversight Executive Committee”

      And look at the dollar amounts on the Post-It.

      Yeah, this may be “Interesting Times”…

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        To be fair, I did post an incorrect link there, not realizing that was the one with a bunch of pages. Essentially the same though.

        But the fact that they were this organized years back, honestly not something I was paying attention to for health reasons (fuck my 30’s have been a shitshow) is disturbing. They’ve obviously improved in the meantime.

    3. avatar Chief Censor says:

      I won’t say. But… You won’t believe me anyway.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        The shortest post you’ve ever made. Probably the least useful too.

        1. avatar Chief Censor says:

          Some trees are not meant for climbing.

        2. avatar Ing says:

          I have to admit that Censor has been right about more than I gave him credit for.

          But the *least* useful? He’s already set that bar much too low for anyone to crawl under.

    4. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Notice how mister pwrserge went dark?

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        I have. But that’s not unusual for him. He’s disappeared for weeks at a time over the years I’ve been here.

        For him not to comment on this kind of thing though, that is quite surprising.

        1. avatar Chief Censor says:

          By the way, notice how the rioters haven’t really used molotovs? It’s all the rage in Europe. You would think there would be at least one guy seen throwing a molotov at the cops or into buildings.

          What I am saying is, there are rules of engagement and tactics approved for specific things in specific countries. They know the laws, they know the GOs for LE. There is a command structure. Yes, its very military in nature, guerrilla warfare.

          Also there is psychological professionals that draw up the social strategy to bait and trap the right wing before and during the action. The Republicans are so easy to manipulate.

          This is getting a little too complex. Let’s just say those lefties are not stupid, including the young ones. And there is much more to talk about that cannot be said in a public forum.

          I will say — as the government knows — conversations of importance don’t happen in any public form with the people that matter and personal encryption keys are handed off in person as they should be. The network will not be broken, it’s not possible in America, the unit won’t have it. Trump can put on a show for the dummies, as that’s all it is.

          The plan is going swimmingly. It’s pretty beautiful in it’s success, very respectable. I’m not saying I approve, of course not, but I respect the genius. America is going to fall eventually, the general populace doesn’t understand the war being waged from within and the people trying to end up on top.

        2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Two people arrested in NYC for throwing molotovs at cop cars… man hit two different units and woman threw one into a car full of cops… They are out there, they’re just not getting airplay…

        3. avatar strych9 says:

          I tend to agree with what you’ve said here and I know the groups in question are smart, I’ve said that about these people for years to essentially no avail. Mostly written off as a kook. Then again, I also didn’t pay that much attention to the real workings of much of anything now for about four years because I had other issues to deal with so perhaps it’s all just flown by and I didn’t see it.

          Parts of the unrest I get. I’ve experienced some of what people complain about and seen worse versions of it overseas. Unbridled anger is entirely understandable to me. But that’s not what this is. I mean, it seems to be a large part of it but it also seems to be *directed* in a certain manner, perhaps “manipulated” being a better word.

          What I really don’t get is the point of it. The outcome is unpredictable and therefore entirely uncontrollable.

          I have trouble believing that it’s a huge group of “burn it all down” types because the people smart enough to do this kind of thing are smart enough to realize the inevitable consequences of just “burning it all down” without a ready-made replacement. So, to me that seems self-destructive. “Cutting off your own nose to spite your face” as it were.

        4. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

          “What I really don’t get is the point of it. The outcome is unpredictable and therefore entirely uncontrollable. ”

          They believe the way things are now, a roll of the dice for something else is a risk they will take. And if they don’t like what follows, do it all over again.

          Mowing down cops with that brown SUV may bring them attention they don’t want…

        5. avatar Chief Censor says:

          @strych9

          I write the song, you play it. Makes sense? If there is any trouble, the conductor will straighten you right up.

          I can’t get into the intricacies. It’s a long conversation that isn’t allowed.

          Humans are very predictable. Their nature is cyclical. Their response predetermined. Herding quite natural. Hence the psychologists being a portion of the team and the profession mostly comprising of the left.

          How many times in history does the story have to repeat itself for the average person to understand? It’s the same playbook written by the same people. It’s tradition. The results have been the same. Humans are not all that special, especially proud egotistical ones.

          I would say, that if Trump is elected for another four years, if that continues to be the will, you might see it happen before your eyes. Change is going to come — far as I know — because everyone has joined in. Free will is a thing though, hopefully people realize that.

          I won’t be surprised if pwrserge comes running in to disparage. But he is probably very busy right now.

        6. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

          “This is getting a little too complex. Let’s just say those lefties are not stupid, including the young ones.”

          There you go –

          Arrogance comes before the fall. Do you seriously believe their ‘security’ is impenetrable?

          Over the past 19 years now, they have been building quite a capable machine for finding people they want. All they have to do is flip the switch…

        7. avatar Hannibal says:

          There are multiple group of people who have been arrested for throwing molotov’s into police cars.

          It may just be that the news chooses not to cover that.

        8. avatar Chief Censor says:

          @Hannibal

          I only seen people lighting things on fire then tossing it inside. Not the real deal.

          Molotovs are considered deadly force, thus frowned on. The insiders won’t allow the use because death or arrest will take one out of action. Now outsiders can do what they please, but the efforts are not to bring forth such action.

          Bricks is condoned when used against buildings. Throwing them at cops is not. Cart man only puts them where rioting and looting is necessary for distraction and provocation. However, this tactic has been exposed in the last 2 days, it only took like 4 days for the normies to notice.

        9. avatar Ing says:

          “Over the past 19 years now, they have been building quite a capable machine for finding people they want. All they have to do is flip the switch…” Yes, Geoff, but who’ll be flipping it, and who are they going to flip it on? Nobody in this whole national shitshow is up to anything good.

        10. avatar Hannibal says:

          “At about 10:36 p.m., officers spotted Samantha Shader at the intersection of Eastern Parkway and Washington Avenue in Brooklyn’s 71st precinct, holding a bottle with a rag in it, Magoolaghan said.

          Samantha Shader then lit the rag and threw the bottle at a marked police van with four officers inside, Magoolaghan said.

          The bottle shattered a window but did not explode on impact, Magoolaghan said. The four officers, who were not injured, were able to get out of the van before the firebomb exploded and van burst into flames, Magoolaghan said.”

        11. avatar Dennis L says:

          They know the laws, they know the GOs for LE. There is a command structure. Yes, its very military in nature, guerrilla warfare.

          Don’t play into the hands of Chief Censor. He wants you to hate. He wants you to react to his subtle digs. The more you push against him the greater the chances of you being exposed by the MSM. Thus is what he wants. This is what he lives for. If you attack first, you lose. If you shoot first you’ll really lose. Remember guerilla warfare use you weapons against yourselves. Don’t buy into it. Let them shoot first, let them pillage first, let the kill first. Then when all Americans see their true intentions, Turn and Burn.

      2. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

        Manhattan is being looted, and the NYPD is just standing around, not dealing with it :

        https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/06/george-floyd-protests-police-clashes-continue-updates.html

    5. avatar SoCalJack says:

      strych9, thanks for sharing, a suspecisous doc for sure. Snopes.com shows similar and claiming its a hoax: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/floyd-instruction-manual-protesters/
      But like everything on the internet, including Snopes, take it with a grain of salt. To doc could be true, fake, a diversion?
      Like most, I’m already prepared, just trying to vet incoming news.

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        I can’t verify it. And those docs are old. It brings up the question of what they’re doing now.

        Regardless, the way thing shave gone with this, in various ways, strongly suggests to me four things.

        1) They use some form of electronic communications, which is a really bad idea these days.

        2) Most people don’t like these folks and will turn on them. Hell, Chicago gangs have said they’ll murder rioters and looters.

        3) Ultimately, the declaring of ANTIFA (whatever that means these days) to be a domestic terror org speaks problems for them and other such groups. It brings in a lot of GWoT resources and opens up the possibility of their members being subject to a hell of a lot more than a regular police interrogation.

        4) The Intel folks in a few places have started to adapt. Denver cops seem to be aware of how to deny the looters and rioters space to operate within the crowd. DPD basically didn’t have to arrest anyone today. The peaceful protestors did their thing and at this point it seems there were no pepperballs or gas because there was no need.

        We’ll see if that lasts and if the tactics spread.

        I also note that the Feds have been uncharacteristically chill about things, especially Trump who’s kind of knee jerk and a big law and order guy. If I’m part of some organized bullshit that makes me nervous, like they’re letting me spool out enough rope to hang myself.

        1. avatar RidgeRunner says:

          Good stuff, thanks for posting. Have to say I’m not shocked they have “friendlies” inside, all you have to do is look at “selective enforcement” in places like Seattle and Portland. Surely goes higher up the chain than LEOs, too. These guys want is chaos and then to take advantage of the fear that follows. The gig, it appears, is up.

        2. avatar Dude says:

          See my comment below. The anarchists are very organized, which is sort of ironic. 🙂

        3. 2) Most people don’t like these folks and will turn on them. Hell, Chicago gangs have said they’ll murder rioters and looters.

          Of course.

          The rioting and looting benefits neither them nor their paymasters in the Chicago municipal establishment.

      2. avatar Dude says:

        I will say this for Snopes. They will twist themselves in a pretzel trying to explain away a false comment by a left winger, labeling it as only partially true. I’m not saying that document is true, but I am saying that there is a concerted effort in the media to downplay any negative actions by folks of the left wing persuasion, while simultaneously promoting negative actions by folks on the right.

        1. Here is an example of Snopes’s work.

          http://ethicsalarms.com/2019/07/08/monday-morning-ethics-warm-up-7-8-2019-well-no-more-oreos-for-me-edition/

          1. Snopes again. Incredibly, there are still people—like Facebook!—who insist that Snopes is a trustworthy, objective factchecking source. Ethics Alarms had its fill of the site’s partisan spinning many moons ago, but just for giggles, here is another example of the site’s shameless bias.

          Last week Snopes pretended to do a “fact check” on whether the Betsy Ross American flag—the thirteen star version that Nike recently rules was too racist to be on a sneaker— was used under President Barack Obama at his inauguration. The strange thing is that no fact check was necessary, since the photographic record is undeniable. As is often the case, however, Snopes’ purpose wasn’t to clarify facts, but to bolster a progressive narrative. Bethania Palma, the most unsubtle of the site’s propagandists, argues that while Obama’s version of the flag wasn’t racist, any use of the flag in 2019 would be racist, because the existence of Donald Trump makes it so.

          During the Trump era, what were once relics of the United States’ fraught history with violent racism have been taken up as causes for some far-right extremists. As white supremacists began rallying around Confederate monuments slated for removal, some tried to attach the Betsy Ross flag to their cause as a symbol…The Anti-Defamation League, a non-profit organization that tracks hate groups, doesn’t include the flag in its database of confirmed hate symbols. But many have viewed the flag as symbolizing a time in U.S. history when slavery was legal. “Historically, these symbols have been used by white supremacists, both to hearken back to a time when black people were enslaved, while also painting themselves as the inheritors of the ‘true’ American tradition,” Keegan Hankes, a researcher for the Southern Poverty Law Center, told Rolling Stone.

          In other words, now that Trump is President, any symbol or artifact that was used by the United States before the abolishment of slavery is to be regarded as carrying racist symbolism. That’s a fact! Snopes says so.

    6. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

      If this document is accurate it confirms a few suspicions I had a decade ago when we trained damn near exclusively for civil unrest and only had a break from it for deployment and a bit of post l&o after. I remember most of it had the typical separatist terrorists or McVey types in the scenarios. Then we had the 99% and occupy spin up and I figured it was time for a career change.

    7. avatar MADDMAXX says:

      Friendly LE is no surprise, if they can get their fucking commie asses elected to the U.S. Congress they can sure as hell infiltrate police forces in major cities around the country and anyone can pick up a burner phone (or a case of them) if you’ve got the cash…. I posted a couple of times about the “handler” with the bullhorn in the bright red shirt in L.A. and I’ve seen others since including in video from NYC today… This is the real deal and your “intel” makes as much sense as the rest of the shit I’ve seen including cops standing off watching looters before just driving away right up to surrendering a fucking police station and falsified autopsy reports to a U.S. Congresswoman passing out pamphlets on how to protest… I believe they are going for it and it’s make or break time, they’ve exposed themselves and their agenda and it’s too late to turn back…

  15. avatar M says:

    I am not going to do anything differently, if I have to use deadly force because my family is under attack I will, but I am certainly not going to do the cops’ job and try to be the hero. All you will get is court dates, confiscation of your firearm, legal fees, unwanted fame….that is if you don’t actually get shot by some rotten cops, because you attacked the “peaceful protesters” who were fighting injustice by looting and burning stuff.

  16. avatar Chief Censor says:

    Throwing stuff at cops is not deadly force. Most cops are wearing riot gear. Shooting someone over throwing a bottle or rock is something other countries are condemned for.

    Shooting over property crime is illegal a lot of the time and most Americans do not agree with doing so even if it was legal. Even on this site most people said they disagree with shooting people stealing.

    Cops have no duty to protect you. They are not there for you. It’s not their job nor responsibility. Gun owners are big boys, that’s why they can have guns.

    This protesting, rioting and looting is not like other events prior. Cops are getting shot and protesters are being killed in the exchange of gunfire. It’s not that easy for the government to handle rebellious youth, especially when some of them have guns.

    It’s not a shoot first ask questions later… That only leads to more rioting and more shootings. Cops shooting people is vigilantism, it goes against the constitution. Now the victim has every right to defend their property, but the law is not on their side.

    1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

      “Throwing stuff at cops is not deadly force.”

      Against LE it is, and a sentence enhancement or charge elevation…

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        That’s because the cops are corrupt Americans and anti constitutional law enforcement.

        1. avatar Debbie W. says:

          Rest assured these looting, assaulting and arsonist punks all have loose lips. Those punks will turn rat on a dime and spill the beans on each other just to save their own behinds…So much for the, “cause.” They run but they cannot hide. From now on everywhere they go they’ll wonder if the person standing next to them is LE with cuffs.

          Good news today is…A Black American who was simply sitting in his truck had some white bread come up to his beloved truck and bust out the side glass. Black American gets out of truck and chases fleeing white bread down, makes the tackle and beats the ever loving sht out of him…TOUCHDOWN!!!

        2. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

          “Rest assured these looting, assaulting and arsonist punks all have loose lips.”

          Not all of them.

          There’s one in the Seattle area who has repeatedly gotten away with torching SUV dealerships. Probably an ‘Earth First’ member…

      2. avatar Geoff "I'm really too old for modern society" PR says:

        Quick! Quick! Everyone come look at ‘Geoff, “I’m too old to get with the times and wish it was 1950” PR’ espousing his clearly infallible position on something he has no real validity with which to comment!

        Seriously dude…give it up. I don’t know how much your dick gets hard thinking you matter (I doubt it can anymore if I’m being honest), but I know this forum strokes that concept for you, REAL hard. I’d say get a life, but yours is in the final act, so that’s a moot suggestion.

    2. avatar StLPro2A says:

      Chief Censor…”.Throwing stuff at cops is not deadly force. Most cops are wearing riot gear.” Well, LEOs also wear ballistic body armor. So, I guess you feel shooting at LEOs is not deadly force either??? Let’s have a stuff chunkin’ fest. Me chunker; you chunkee. Put on all the riot gear you want. Been there, done that in the National Guard in another life chapter. Let’s see how you feel afterwards. Bet I can change your perspective about whether chunkin’ stuff is deadly force.

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        Throwing a water bottle isn’t deadly. Slinging bullets is.

        I have had rocks thrown at me. I have had them hit me in the head. I’m still living.

        And, yes, my brain is fine. Thanks for asking.

        1. avatar Debbie W. says:

          Rocks? It was probably more like a pebble thrown by a 2 year old and certainly not a pitcher with a 90 MPH fast ball. By all accounts you’d make a good racist CC. The way you throw everyone into the same boat instead of seeing people as individuals is amazing…All that’s missing for you is a white sheet, pointed hat and burning cross.

        2. avatar nanashi says:

          Water is pretty dense and easily a lethal weapon.

        3. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Especially if you freeze it like antifa does to use as a weapon…

        4. avatar Yellow Devil says:

          I have to say there are times you say something rather thoughtful even if I disagree with it. And then other times, you post a comment like you are another person and makes little, if any, sense. If you had rocks thrown at your head as you claim, that may explain a lot.

    3. avatar DinWA says:

      “Cops shooting people is vigilantism, it goes against the constitution.”

      Huh?

      1. avatar DinWA says:

        Never mind; I misunderstood the statement.

  17. avatar Dirk Ri says:

    To anyone in California, if you haven’t done so already, now would be a good time pull out your mags you got during Freedom Week, unblock any 10/30’s, remove any maglock devices and ditch the fin grips.

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Don’t have any expensive cars outside or drive around in it. Trust me.

      1. avatar Someone says:

        Trust you I don’t.

    2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      LOL, we Californians have the “compliant” AR we take to the range for public optics. The “real” ARs get their exercise in the privacy of the desert to prepare for days such as these. My Glock is on the nightstand…my go-to AR is leaning up in the corner.

  18. avatar StLPro2A says:

    Note the mix of the “shoppers.”……the free shit crowd and white trailer trash. This is domestic terrorism. Now watching “shoppers” on live news in St. Louis looting and now burning a 7-11…a block from StLMPD station. Police need to put snipers on building rooftops and start cleansing the gene pool. Clearly set their expectations, then make believers out of them. Don’t want to be shot….don’t vandalize and loot. If these rioters don’t like how they are dealt with……change your damn brand. Quit being on the evening news in these videos and mug shots. Pull up your pants….don’t no body want to see your skid marked panties…..learn to speak American English, grow some personal responsibility, initiative, quit voting yourself onto the Government Plantation, start being just Americans…non-hyphenated, quit being a burden on society, blame yourself first; your parents second.
    Birds of a feather flock together. Change your damn flock. Dad always said, “Show me your friends, and I’ll show you your future.” Tired of paying for their free shit, and the costs of their damage to society. It has nothing to do with skin color, but everything to do with what is between their ears and in their hearts. Skin color is merely a convenient flock designator for the Dems to segment as their Useful Idiots. My parents came from the poorest of poor circumstances, but they never looted and burned their communities….or bum rushed a LEO.
    Not saying it is justified, but LEOs deal with the scum of society every day never knowing if they will go home to their families. Some become conditioned by stereotype flocks. Their attitudes appear to take on a form of PTSD.
    Our Founding Fathers would already have been finished shooting a second time.

    1. avatar Just Kidding - You're a Nitwit says:

      Glad you’re totally in line with what a systemically racist police force produces. Oh, what’s that? You’re not at all, and are in fact, talking out your ass? Weird, totally didn’t expect that from someone whose past posts are equally retarded.

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      putting cops on rooftops isn’t a bad idea…but as spotters…not snipers….

  19. avatar MikeJH121 says:

    Longer range…. 150 gr 2600 fps… shorter…55 gr at 3500 fps…. close 12 g….. SHTF distance pistols. I will not vacate my domicile. I will defend me and mine. It ain’t close to that yet but Antifa posted last night “Time to go to the suburbs F the cities go into homes and take back what is theirs.” Isn’t that special?

    Masks for the virus, hell, lead cures Covid.

    Wanna see a lib head explode? Let them know, with the gov’s special thing about words out of abbreviations…. COVID-19 stands for … Chinese Originated Virus IDentified #19…..

    1. avatar Wally1 says:

      +1, I agree totally, let them come to my neighborhood. I have clacked claymores and this is what we need when the rioters come down my street. I’ll take my chances with a jury of my peers.

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        Agreed. Only the living get the opportunity to plead their case.

    2. avatar jwtaylor says:

      “COVID-19 stands for … Chinese Originated Virus IDentified #19…..:

      Is that a joke?

      Corona Virus Disease 2019

  20. avatar StLPro2A says:

    “Time to go to the suburbs F the cities go into homes and take back what is theirs.” Come in, meet Mr. Mossberg.
    Well, there is the JEOPARDY……manifest intent expressed in words/action/posturing……of the triad simultaneously needed for use of deadly force. A mob is the disparity of force…force in numbers….is the ABILITY. The mob on your property/at your door is the OPPORTUNITY.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      may be time to start surveying the neighbors to see who’s willing and who isn’t…we did it in ’68…seemed to work well then….

  21. avatar B says:

    Libtard: Who needs an AR15?

    Answer: To back up my belt-fed!

  22. avatar conrad says:

    The word “will” in the header should be Must.

  23. avatar The Olympic Snorch says:

    Yawn, op is trying to be dramatic but can’t force together a cogent narrative.

    If an owner is willing to guard their business they mustn’t be too wealthy and out of touch. Unfortunate that it’s necessary, unfortunate that it’s a risky situation, but in most cases the economics of the situation will diffuse themselves; the mob won’t be desperate enough and business owners will keep what is important to them.

    Big box stores; different situation, different economics. In any case cops don’t stop crime, unless there’s a blown taillight involved, they show up later and write a report. You all know that, you say it yourselves when grubbily trying to justify your RKBA. You’re just being selectively naive now that it suits you. Big box stores are built for relatively high social order. It’s usually a good bet, they can usually stomp all over mom & pops, but when social order fails miserably, for a few days every decade, they don’t do so hot. It’s unfortunate, I don’t condone looting, but corporations are big boys-and-girls. The idea of armed citizens doing anything about it is just a violent fantasy.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      kind of refreshing to see a line of cops around a Target tonight….

      1. avatar possum says:

        it may have been they were targeted, or Target was passing out free donuts? ( I’m hungry for donuts now, sht.)

  24. avatar Buff cousin Elroy says:

    Every storefront in Kirkland, WA was boarded up today and i saw about 6 or 7 shops with armed groups standing guard. Mostly ARs, one guy outside the Tobacco Patch smoke shop had a HK ump carbine, guys outside the gym had a suppressed AR. I walked around and talked with everyone i saw. Heavy police presence.

    There was a citywide alert that went out to our cell phones warning of planned riots. There was a small “demonstration” of blm protestors but it fizzled out so quickly. Nothing is going to happen here, the citizens have put out a huge show of force. There’s atleast one armed group guarding a store on every block in downtown. Our neighbors in Bellevue, WA got looted and the whole downtown mall and surrounding area was destroyed last night.

    I’ve never seen such huge support for open carriers and openly armed shop keepers in this completely hard-liberal city. Lots of support for community defense. Its awesome. It’s almost as if, people are starting to wake up and understand how valuable the 2nd A is.

    1. avatar Ing says:

      That’s good to hear. Maybe there is some good news hidden behind this nationwide dumpster fire.

    2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      My area (northern L.A. County) got the alert that Antifa had put out the call for hundreds of outsiders to come up to our valley and burn down our mall to “teach the white suburbs they can’t hide”. Our Sheriff deputies are on high alert tonight.

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        “A Twitter account claiming to belong to a national “antifa” organization and pushing violent rhetoric related to ongoing protests has been linked to the white nationalist group Identity Evropa, according to a Twitter spokesperson.
        The spokesperson said the account violated the company’s platform manipulation and spam policy, specifically the creation of fake accounts. Twitter suspended the account after a tweet that incited violence.”

        1. avatar Dude says:

          Are white supremacists known for looting, attacking random white people, hating capitalism, and vandalizing civil war monuments? Hmm

          I’m old enough to remember when the Left worshiped at the alter of the hallowed all important Intelligence Reports. Or was that just out of political convenience?

          “Number one, before the protests began, organizers of certain anarchist groups set out to raise bail money and people who would be responsible to be raising bail money, they set out to recruit medics and medical teams with gear to deploy in anticipation of violent interactions with police,” Miller said.

          He added that these people were prepared to damage property and were instructing followers to target wealthier areas or high-end establishment run by corporate entities.

          Miller said that they believe that the people who came from outside of New York City, the advanced preparations, the use of scouts and encrypted information, using resupply routes for gasoline, accelerants, rocks and bottles, the raising of bail and the employment of medics show that the people behind the scenes plan to “act with disorder, property damage, violence and violent encounters with police before the first demonstration and or before the first arrest”.

          https://www.ibtimes.com/police-suspect-antifa-anarchists-involved-increasing-violent-activities-2986097

    3. avatar DinWA says:

      Nice to hear of some good things happening across the Sound.

  25. avatar M says:

    I am disgusted, I want to puke. I am ashamed for those who died so we could survive WW2, for those who fought bravely to give birth to this nation. I am more ready than ever to protect my loved ones, however I am not going to do the cops’ job and try to save the town. Will they cover my attorney’s fees and help me relocate far away to protect my family after I hypothetically shoot some rioters? Of course not. Trump needs to wake up as too many mayors and governors are not even trying to do their job. There is no talking with these criminals, they demand repression.

    1. avatar possum says:

      Yah just gotta let that shit slide man,. You think I like buying Communist made products?

      1. avatar Dude says:

        You could try electing people that are willing to create a friendly business environment in this country, and are tired of selling the American people short. Or you could just accept that everything will be made elsewhere so the rich and powerful here can become more so.

  26. avatar MLee says:

    Spokane had a large protest during the day Sunday but later in the evening a looting occurred in downtown Spokane. Monday night, June 1st, the protest moved to Coeur d’ Alene, ID. Also in Coeur d’ Alene was a HUGE armed citizen presence. The local news in Spokane showed “film at 11” which showed many many armed citizens protecting the city. What the police can’t do….the good citizens WILL.

    Obviously the pandemic and then the armed citizens protecting their cities is the gun grabbing libtards worst nightmare.

    1. avatar Montana Actual says:

      I am there in ID now. It’s beautiful.

      1. avatar MLee says:

        Being a born and bred Montanan, I should have gone there. I was actually born in Missoula. I lived in Coeur d’ Alene, right on the lake for a short while. It’s second home to me. But by the time I find out about things, it’s all over. I know one thing though, a bunch of gun toting folks is a HELLUVA DETERRENT . The real nice thing to see, just about everyone was toting semi-auto style modern “sporting rifles” aka “Black Scary Rifles”

  27. avatar possum says:

    the humans done gone nutz. got to thick., now they’re killnn themselves off,

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      …Looks like America got blind-sided…..again…..

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        America turned a blind eye to the excessive force and killing of the minorities and poor by police.

        The unreasoning anger and frustration is the result.

        “A riot is the language of the unheard” MLK

        1. avatar Dude says:

          You’re FOS. They brought murder charges against the guy. Where’s your outrage when a black mob swarms on white people? There are plenty of examples. Skin color doesn’t matter outside of identifying the perp. Atrocities happen everyday, and people like you pick and choose the politically convenient ones to be outraged over. When you’re only outraged over certain skin colors, then you’re a racist.

        2. avatar Hugh Glass says:

          A riot is the language of the leeches of society.

  28. avatar Montana Actual says:

    Time for police to step up? Now TTAG wants more policing? Lol. Fucking FUDDS.

  29. avatar Miner49er says:

    “A Twitter account claiming to belong to a national “antifa” organization and pushing violent rhetoric related to ongoing protests has been linked to the white nationalist group Identity Evropa, according to a Twitter spokesperson.
    The spokesperson said the account violated the company’s platform manipulation and spam policy, specifically the creation of fake accounts. Twitter suspended the account after a tweet that incited violence.”

    1. avatar jwm says:

      Thank you for all the work you do to get Trump reelected.

  30. avatar Dude says:

    A county deputy was just fired for commenting on facebook that anyone participating in the violence should have been fired upon.

  31. avatar PATRON49IFT says:

    You geniuses on here crack me up! Crackpot ideas are like A-holes; everybody’s got one.

    Some on here have said variations on the main takeaway from all this nonsense: You are on your own. The cavalry, Navy SEALS, MARSOC, or anybody else is not coming to save you, they’re busy trying to save themselves. As many have said before; When seconds count, the police are minutes, hours or days (if ever) away.

    The cops have mostly been neutered by the pc, virtue signaling crowd. The real folks who want to act like cops are constantly held back by their ‘Captains’ and their Mayors.

    My neighborhood is ready for the worst and we hope for the best. Pax vobiscum. Alternatively, “Si vis pacem, para bellum.”

  32. avatar Dude says:

    Good luck guys.

    Pritzker, speaking later on CNN, remarked: “Well, it’s illegal. He can’t do it. We won’t request military assistance here in the state of Illinois. I can’t imagine why any governor is going to do that. This is, it’s ridiculous,” he said.

  33. avatar Dennis says:

    Like most cowardly terrorists, these pukes are very careful about targeting only “gun free” zones! Now, how many of the new gun sales do you think were conducted by these anarchists? Food for thought!?

  34. avatar Chris Morton says:

    It seems like the police have two modes:
    * brutality
    * cowardice

    People of all races and ethnicities will remember this for a LONG time.

    I know I will. It’s why I had to buy more shelves to hold ammunition and reloading supplies.

    Of course my family remembers the Chicago race riot of 1919 when Democrats (including a future mayor) tried to burn my family out of our neighborhood and murder us. I’m only here to type this because my great uncles, just back from segregated service with the French army, armed themselves and protected the community.

    Never forget, anyone who wants to disarm you wants to destroy you.

    1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

      Your sentiment is well taken, however the idea that cops only function in two modes is a bit judgmental… While there are obviously people who become cops because they have a propensity toward violence and brutality those are eventually found out and dealt with, however you must understand there are acts YOU might see as brutality that are usually shown out of context by a media that has mostly been taken over by individuals indoctrinated by the teachings of “Brother” Saul Alinsky, and the doctrines of Cloward and Piven, Lenin and Stalin… As far as cowardice, yes there are cowardly cops but again in most cases what YOU see might have lacked the proper context. Were the cops in Minneapolis 3rd precinct cowards because they abandoned their station OR did they abandon the station because of orders from an inexperienced Mayor. Fortunately we had the benefit of on scene sources from various agencies so we know the truth, but later when we saw those same cops firing non-lethal projectiles and various irritants at people and being less than gentle while making arrests was that “brutality” or anger and frustration at being forced to watch their city burn while being restrained by incompetent leadership from the Governor on down or even leaders who are sympathetic to the rioters and looters like the Governor of N.Y. and the failed POS Mayor of NYC (who openly expressed pride in his daughters arrest for participating in the riots and throwing shit at the cops).. A true cowardly act was the cop on duty at Marjory Stoneman Douglas who hid behind a squad car while a killer walked the halls taking lives with impunity, but for every one of him there are hundreds of stories of heroic actions taken by cops (some of which have resulted in death) coming to the aid of a citizen or even another cop in dire straits… Not ALL cops are either brutal thugs or cowardly punks, but ALL cops are human and react to a given situation in many different ways just as any other human would. There are ALL kinds of people in the world, the brutal, the cowards and everything in between and some of those people become cops bringing all of the history and circumstances of their previous life with them…

      1. avatar Chris Morton says:

        Anybody who says “I was just following orders” should be required to do it in German.

        1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Good answer…

    2. I wonder how the anti-gun cult will sell “common sense”, “sensible” gun legislation, if the cops can not be trusted to enforce it in an even-handed manner, let alone confront the street thug and the gangbanger?

  35. avatar MADDMAXX says:

    A Florida sheriff recommended home owners shoot any looters who attempt to break into their homes on Monday during a press briefing. “I would tell them, if you value your life, they probably shouldn’t do that in Polk County,” Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd said, according to Fox 13 Tampa Bay. “Because the people of Polk County like guns, they have guns, I encourage them to own guns, and they’re going to be in their homes tonight with their guns loaded.”

  36. avatar DanC says:

    A lot of comments. I’ll keep it simple, arrest is one thing, prosecution and hard jail time is another. The cops come, arrest the looters, transport them to the jail house. These looters call their lawyers or have their communist backers call their lawyers and get bailed out by morning. What’s the point if they are let go? We have a corrupt system. It’s designed for the criminal. Seems to me that our only option is to shoot first….

  37. avatar Miner49er says:

    Even Pat Robertson says Trump is wrong to use the military to clear protesters:

    “Televangelist Pat Robertson scolded President Donald Trump on Tuesday over his threat to send the U.S. military into American cities to control civil unrest. 
    “You just don’t do that, Mr. President,” Robertson said on his “700 Club” TV show, then he raised his voice: “It isn’t cool.” 
    In comments posted online by Right Wing Watch, Robertson also called out Trump for getting the tone all wrong in dealing with the people protesting against racial injustice in the wake of the police killing of George Floyd, a Black man in Minneapolis, last week. 
    “You know, there’s a purpose to everything under heaven, you read in the Bible, and there’s a time,” he said. “And I think like now is the time to say, ’I understand your pain, I want to comfort you, I think it’s time we love each other.” 

    Even after Trump held up somebody else’s Bible upside down and backwards in a photo op, the Evangelical Christians are starting to turn away because of his authoritarian tactics.

  38. Civil authority has failed.

    We need martial law now!

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