Harrop: Laws That Allow the Open Carry of Firearms are Insane

Open carry revolver holster

Dan Z for TTAG

If I feared my home could be invaded by what Mark McCloskey said was an “out-of-control mob,” I’d be inside, crouched under a window. The couple argued that the protesters were trespassing on their private lane, which was true but not an excuse for brandishing firearms. A St. Louis grand jury charged the McCloskeys with unlawful use of a weapon, a felony.

This goes beyond the usual debate over gun control. I believe that sane gun laws would allow ownership of weapons for sport or self-defense, with some exceptions, and assuming the owner is of sound mind and clean criminal record. This isn’t about that.

It’s about changing laws that let people menace bystanders with a deadly weapon. No two ways about it. A firearm conspicuously displayed on the street is a threat — including to law enforcement officers, who are sometimes the targets. Open-carry laws seem, frankly, insane.

– Froma Harrop in Why Do We Let People Brandish Guns In Public?

comments

  1. avatar d says:

    Why? Because Democrats are violent

    1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      This and they have proven such to be the case.

      1. avatar Tim says:

        and we fools are clueless about how a “peaceful protest” can involve burning & looting, destroying public & private property. Restore the republic, enforce laws EQUALLY!

    2. avatar Debbie W. says:

      “Why Do We Let People Brandish Guns In Public?” The “sensible” sneaky Gun Hating Rat uses Brandish to smear Open Carry. Two entirely different meanings and the author knows it but the Ends Justifies The Means. I.E. Like elections controlled by democRats.

      1. avatar Joe nobody says:

        This author is more dangerous to gun rights than liberals, because he is willing to let the liberals take them.

        I must have missed the part of the 2nd amendment that says “…shall not be infringed as long as the gun is out of sight.”

        Also I thought this was “TheTruthAboutGuns” but it appears to be “PropetuatingLiberalMindsetAboutGuns”

        I expected better.

    3. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      If you want to seriously frighten a mob of Antifa/BLM thugs just make sure you bring Froma Harrop with you and they’ll run screaming into the night. With someone like her around, who needs guns?

      1. avatar Ron says:

        Just start waving around job applications and positive pregnancy tests.

    4. avatar Mack The Knife says:

      Looks like a fat peoples gathering. Keep your fingers in your own plate.

    5. avatar Country Boy says:

      Agreed but x 100.

  2. avatar Noamsaying says:

    It is not brandishing if the gun is in a holster.

    1. avatar Old Guy in Montana says:

      Not according to Frumpy Harridan…her feelz are more relevant than law and reason.

    2. avatar Steve Eisenberg says:

      Words mean whatever the Left says they mean, and those meanings can change at any time.
      Please refer to the book “1984.”

      1. avatar MyName says:

        Yeah, that was supposed to be a warning, not a manual.

        My favorite thing from 2020 (although it may be older, but I noticed it in 2020) is the “Make Orwell Fiction Again” bumper sticker.

        1. avatar Roymond says:

          Brilliant bumper sticker!

          I found a couple of different versions on Etsy, if anyone is wanting one.

    3. avatar Automatic Jack says:

      You beat me to it! The fact that I see a gun does not make it brandishing, certainly not in Virginia.

      1. avatar R Corrino says:

        Does this mean when I see the outline of a woman’s breast even if they are covered by a bra, shirt and jacket she is seducing me?

        1. avatar Datahut says:

          Good point, or points, I lost track. However in a lot of instances, it’s used the same as weaponry, and guys at least damn well know that. One way or the other it’s sometimes being displayed for purposes other than what they’re really used for.

        2. If you are a Muslim male it’s incitement to rape… she was asking for it… (And I have no self control OR responsibility…”

      2. avatar Tim says:

        only an fool would live in a gun free, idiot rich environment. A patriot would move there after the SHTF in Amerika. Now, a target rich environment! Let em have it

      3. avatar DrDKW says:

        Not brandishing? Governor Conehead and his minions will soon fix that!

  3. avatar Chi-Chi Montezuma says:

    A 70yr old liberal woman from NY. She can f right off. I hope savage commies burn her out.

  4. avatar Ron says:

    Ignorance and bigotry on full display.

  5. avatar Dennis Sumner says:

    Bulls*it! Carrying, brandishing, menacing, all deterrents for mindless thugs who without deterrents would rob, rape or kill you without a second thought!!! McCloskeys probably prevented all of the above that day, and to prosecute them for it is shameful and dangerous!

    1. avatar Anymouse says:

      The McCloskeys prevented nothing. The mob was on the way to another house, and that’s were they went. They were passing by McCloskeys, who overreacted. It was a bad use of guns by untrained owners, like shooting a fleeing robber. Afterwards, they claimed to have felt threatened, but the videos don’t show that.

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        The mob was an uninvited assembly on private property, and at least two uploaded videos contained audio evidence of clear threats of violence against the McCloskeys. I think this is old news by this point.

        1. avatar All Hail! says:

          The definitive word of the always prescient I Haz A Question. We are lucky to be able to bask in the reflected glow of his greatness!!

          All Hail.

        2. avatar Old Guy in Montana says:

          @
          All Tail!

          …as we are equally unlucky to bask in the reflected glow of your nothingness…your drivel…your poor, tired, huddled mass of trite B.S. that you spew.

          As far as you’re concerned…don’t carry, bow your head and always say “Yes, Master” to your politruk.

          Back to the discussion: Meh, open carry should be a personal decision…personally, I prefer brunettes concealed carry.

        3. avatar James Campbell says:

          Oh, there’s the turd dropping into the truth punchbowl, right on cue.
          Good leashed chimp, dance for your banana!
          The hand on your leash COMMANDS it of you.
          Dance basement dweller, dance.

        4. avatar All Hail! says:

          Like I give a damn what some gender confused furry loving geezer in the ‘state’ of Montana has to say 🤣🤣🤡🤡…

          All Hail.

        5. avatar Old Guy in Montana says:

          …and yet, you cared enough to respond…thank you.

          I am still the sex / gender assigned at birth…and quite comfortable with that identity.

          Unlike you, I choose not to harass, torment, chide or make fun of persons who may be gender dysphoric. I’ve found that a persons actions are more indicative of their soul and personality than some rando description espoused by haters like you.

          You’re still angry because Montana told the Democrats to FOAD in no uncertain terms in the recent election…even after huge amounts of Dem Dark Propaganda Money (DDPM) flooded the state.

          PS: you should adopt a dog…a friend who will love you in spite of your glaring faults…it just might change your life for the better.

          TTFN

      2. avatar Trv says:

        It could be they were moving on to another house because they recognize the potential of getting their ass shot off, smart move.

      3. avatar DaWorks says:

        Since the “uninvited” folks had already BROKEN IN through a private gate… destroying private property, their actions in arming themselves were 100% legal. You mean to say that if I’m sitting on my front porch at Halloween and start cleaning my shotgun at coincidently the same moment that a vanload of kids with cartons of eggs and 36 rolls of TP show up That I should be charged with some fictitious crime? Will never fly.

      4. avatar Paul says:

        You may not be the sharpest tool in the shed. The mob broke down a gate to get at the McCloskey’s. Doesn’t matter where they *said* they were going, they were trespassing and threatening the well being of the McCloskey family.

        1. avatar Timothy says:

          in Louisiana, they would have shot them. Paid the fine for littering……..NEXT !

  6. avatar Danny L Griffin says:

    What open carry law? Name one single open carry law in any of the fifty states or D.C. or territories.

    1. avatar A-M Rodgers says:

      Tennessee. Our “enhanced” carry permit allows open carry and/or concealed. So there is 1.

      1. avatar Mercury says:

        I think what he’s pointing out is that there are laws prohibiting open carry, there are specific exceptions to that law (usually a permit of some kind), and there are states that do not have any laws prohibiting open carry. There is not, to my knowledge, any law “allowing” open carry any more than there is any law “allowing” recreational marjuana use. Rather, any law applicable to either of these things is a law reducing or eliminating the existing criminal penalties for the thing in question, under certain circumstances.

        Now I could be wrong here. Maybe there is a state that has a non-law that says you can do something that already isn’t probibited by law (or maybe a pre-emption, but even that’s technically saying what local government can’t do, not what citizens can do.) But either way, the issue here is that the crazed leftist who authored this piece is implying that the open carrying of a handgun is illegal in a natural law sense. That is, in the same way that murder is illegal as a matter of course, and just because the law doesn’t expressly prohibit your specific type of murder doesn’t mean you can’t be prosecuted for it. This is typical of authoritarians, who view all rights as privileges which flow from authority, and everything is therefore necessarily illegal until it is expressly allowed. That’s why this author writes as though the 29 states in which no criminal charge can be brought for simply carrying a handgun, somehow have laws which say you can.

        Remember, the nature of any law is a group of people you’ve never met saying you can’t do something, and they’ll kill you if you do it anyway and then don’t do whatever thing they say you have to because you did the first thing (i.e. pay a fine and/or submit to incarceration.) Laws are of critical value to any society, sure, but when you pass a law you have to ask “is this worth killing somebody over?” and if the answer is no, you’re either not being utilitarian enough or you shouldn’t pass that law. Authoritarians like the author, though, believe you should be killed for doing anything your betters haven’t expressly told you is allowed, and that’s the real subject of this article, not guns or the carrying of them per se.

        1. avatar Mark N. says:

          What, in logic, is different from a law prohibiting open carry but providing for exceptions where it is legal, to open carry law (most of which have exceptions where open carry is NOT allowed)? Both “allow” the practice in one form or another.

        2. avatar Danny L Griffin says:

          Mercury is correct. I am the editor and primary author of one of the largest, if not the largest, open carry newsletters in the United States. I find it humorous that people are trying to teach me about open carry.

          I have articles on OC written in major outlets. Ammoland is one, the Daily Caller is another, just to name two.

          Here is one I wrote five years ago. Welcome to the club, newbies.

          https://dailycaller.com/2015/04/22/the-pro-liberty-choice-dispelling-the-myths-of-open-carry/

        3. avatar Chris T in KY says:

          to Danny L Griffin
          Thanks for the link. It was very informative.
          (smile)

        4. avatar Danny L Griffin says:

          No problem, Chris. 🙂 45 states allow open carry. I write the largest newsletter in the United States about it, and still people here on TTAG want to educated me about OC because their state allows open carry. “Well, my state of Arizona allows it,” and such.

          Amazing.

    2. avatar MyName says:

      I’m reminded of a conversation I had with an old friend a few years ago when Texas had just passed their new permitted open carry law. This friend was born in Texas, grew up and was ‘educated’ in Colorado and had, a handful of years before this conversation, moved to Vermont.

      She was disturbed that her birthplace had “gone off the deep end” and was allowing open carry, and concealed carry “even on college campuses”. I looked at her a bit sideways and asked, “Have you ever looked into the firearms laws in the two states you’ve resided in for the bulk of your life?” Her reply, “Not really, but I’m sure they are not as crazy as Texas.” (For those who are unaware, Vermont is constitutional carry and Colorado has always had no-permit open carry – except Denver but that is because, Denver – and CC is legal on college campuses – much to the consternation of the Karens.)

      My point? Most of these people have little or no idea what they are talking about.

    3. avatar J says:

      Kentucky has been a constitutional open carry state of pistols, shotguns, and rifles since its inception in 1792 and by the way is an open car carry state also. Laws for open carry are weak and can be changed by state legislatures easily. Open carry as part of a state constitution is much harder to change. Kentucky is a Constitutional carry state now, but major differences from other states focusing on pistol/revolvers is Kentucky still has open carry and open car carry of pistols, shotguns, and rifles. TTAG does promote concealed carry over open carry. When most states restricting carry rights (open/concealed), concealed carry is usually the only option allowed by most states for the individual pistol/revolvers owner. If, you live in Illinois you lost you carry rights in 1949 and was the last state to even get concealed carry until 2013. Constitutional Carry movement only has focuses on pistol/revolver carry in most states. I do not like to see these articles on TTAG, but they serve a purpose of knowing what is being pushed by anti-2nd Amendment states and media across the U.S.

    4. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

      “Name one single open carry law in any of the fifty states or D.C. or territories.”

      Arizona, Danny. Had you bothered to read the article referenced, you would have discovered :

      “In Arizona, a gun in a holster or slung over the back is generally considered nonthreatening. Then, what is it? People who carry firearms into businesses and public spaces are often “looking for a response,” a Scottsdale Police Department spokesman told The Arizona Republic. There are far nobler ways to catch the public’s attention.”

      Is that good enough for you, Danny?

      1. avatar LOL @ GEOFF THE GOOF says:

        Don’t worry, Danny. You’d be an asshole too if you were a 66 year old virgin like Geoff the Goof.

        1. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

          Oh look, the virgin is accusing others being what he is unable of changing.

          Doofer, if you would just talk to a woman (someone other than you mother) you just might get laid one day… 🙂

        2. avatar Danny L Griffin says:

          Don’t worry, Danny. You’d be an asshole too if you were a 66 year old virgin like Geoff the Goof.

          It’s as if people can’t read English or something.

      2. avatar Danny L Griffin says:

        Arizona, Danny. Is that good enough for you?

        Please cite the ARS. Open carry is permitted in 45 states. I am unaware of any that state in their laws “you can open carry here” but I am open to being educated.

        1. avatar LOL @ GEOFF THE GOOF says:

          Well, we’re waiting Goof….

    5. avatar Daniel Hoover says:

      Texas.Open/Concealed one license for all. I prefer Constitutional Carry IMO

      1. avatar James Campbell says:

        Correct.
        Hence the license terminology change. Texas went from CHL (Consealed Handgun License) to LTC (License to Carry).
        I’ve drop leg holster carried my stainless 50AE DEagle into Home Depot on several occasions.

        1. avatar LOL @ CAMES says:

          On a side note, this never happened. Cames is such a 🤡!!!

        2. avatar Timothy says:

          that is a license to carry a cannon

        3. avatar James Campbell says:

          “that is a license to carry a cannon”
          It makes for some interesting conversations.
          Women in their 20s and 30s will come right up and want to know EXACTLY what it is.
          The discussion usually evolves into what they EDC, or they show interest in getting up to speed with handguns, and eventually getting their LTCs.

  7. avatar peaceful protester says:

    We want to intimidate you with mob violence, fireworks, harassment, infringement of your free speech rights and your open carry of a gun prevents us from doing these things. ITS NOT FAIR and your constitutional right should be limited due to this. I’m sure you understand and we can all get along.

  8. avatar Danny L Griffin says:

    Also, editor, do you need me to send you a pic of me with my EDC Safariland SLS instead of the POS nylon holster you posted? Not that TTAG is against OC much. Right.

    1. avatar John in FL says:

      +1
      How about a tank top and shoulder holster?

      1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        John in FL,

        Funny you should mention a tank-top. Stay with me for a second here:

        A firearm conspicuously displayed on the street is a threat …

        If that is the case, then a serious muscle-bound body builder wearing shorts and a tank-top — conspicuously displaying his physique and obvious ability to quickly and easily kill pretty much anyone with his bare hands — is a threat as well which should also be outlawed.

    2. avatar Ragnar says:

      First thing I thought: Seriously, a nylon holster?

      SHAME – SHAME – SHAME

      1. avatar Danny L Griffin says:

        TTAG hates OC and never displays it in a good light.

    3. avatar Tom John Carlson says:

      I am an outfitter at an outdoor goods retailer. That one looks like one of our RangeMaxx holsters.

      We have an aisle full of holsters. I often help customers choose or try to choose a holster. Many do not know what they are looking for or the style of carry they might prefer. We do not carry every holster made to fit every conceivable firearm. Often that style is the only option if they want something now. I always suggest looking on-line for something made to fit their firearm from one of the reputable companies. That holster can be had for I believe as low as $9.99. With the retaining strap that might be OK for tramping around the woods but there are much better options.

      I personally am not a fan of open carry. It is not my style. If someone wants to open carry that is up to them. It is amazing how many non-gunowners do not care or do not notice that someone is open carrying. You can usually spot someone carrying concealed if you know the clues.

      There is so much on the left that comes down to feelings. A person with a carry permit is many times safer with a firearm than a person without.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Don’t be ridiculous! Dafook would a BBQ gun be good for if you’re not going to open carry? HA! Gotcha that time, didn’t I?

      2. avatar anonymous4goodreason says:

        “A person with a carry permit is many times safer with a firearm than a person without.”

        Tom, I’m not sure if you’re saying the leftists feel that way or you feel that way. If you’re saying the left feels that way, you are correct and you may ignore the rest of this reply. If you’re saying you feel that way, I feel like you should have your head examined. By the way, a permit is permission, privileges require permission rights do not.

    4. avatar Rusty - Always Carry - Chains says:

      Yep, nylon is fine for a rifle sling, but is not a great choice for holsters.

    5. avatar d3generation says:

      Since you are knowledgable on the subject, would a shoulder holstered pistol, be considered open carried, if no coat is worn to conceal it in general, and in new mexico in particurlar? Where can i find this information, definitively, if you dont know off hand?

  9. avatar GeorgiaBob says:

    I kinda’ agree with the befuddled writer. Firearms conspicuously displayed by people could be construed as a threat. So the obviously answer is, as long as police are allowed to carry firearms conspicuously displayed, then EVERYONE should be allowed to counter that threat by conspicuously carrying firearms. To be safe in a civilized society everyone should be able to equally exercise any right exercised by any other person.

    When peace officers are not permitted to carry firearms then I will be comfortable with rules directing everyone else carrying concealed in urban settings. It’s only fair. We don’t want to scare the police!

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      I have never considered LE open carry as any manner of threat, simply utility, convenience, since everyone knows they are armed anyway. I also have never considered anyone else open carrying to be a threat, either. There are some really stupid assumptions going on, here. Now, if I see someone moving from cover to cover with a gun in his hand, THAT makes me think we may have a threat.

  10. avatar strych9 says:

    I don’t agree about OC, obviously.

    However, I also disagree with the McCloskey’s from a tactical and tactical-legal point of view. They would have opened themselves to far less legal scrutiny if they stayed up on a balcony and never muzzled or come that close to muzzling the crowd.

    As JWT pointed out when I said this originally, that’s a position to create a lot of bodies from, not warn people off. Well, IMHO, that’s the point and if you don’t get that this is the warning then you and your friends are soon to be fucking bird food. The crowd can jeer all they want but once they attack the house it’s game on.

    Those people could have easily afforded a better camera system than I have and if I’m up on my balcony and you think you can sneak up on the back of the house… well, you’ll find out.

    And for the record before someone goes full REEEEE on me here, no, I don’t agree that the McCloskeys should have been charged. But we all know damn right well that even in the most righteous self-defense situations you’re often going to need a lawyer. These people ARE lawyers. They should have known better.

    1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

      You sir are a FUDD. You don’t support the 2A at all. But you do want YOUR guns. You don’t like cops. Fine. But you also don’t like it when property owners shoot looters/invaders. You are one of the many on TTAG, who supports the status quo. But live far away in a rural area of the country. Not have to living with the BS you support in the major metropolitan areas.

      People like you are the type that made it legal for women to walk around with large sagging exposed breasts. While wearing a strap on dildo. Well fitted for public attire. But you don’t support the open carry of guns. Something that was very normal and legal in our society for hundreds of years.

      The sexually liberated have never supported civil rights. You’re not the only Libertarian Liberal or Leftist who supported the Mulford Act (from inside a closet) in California. And at the same time call Gov Reagan a racist for signing the bill into law. And then latter support the KKK marching thru black neighborhoods while they were carrying guns. Supported by the ACLU, that also like you, doesn’t support the 2A.

      You can say over and over again Freedom is messy. But you like so many members of the three L’s. Don’t believe in Freedom. You don’t believe in Liberty. But you do talk a very good game, for people who don’t pay close attention.

      Its not an accident that the “freedom of speech freaks” don’t support the 2A. Because the open carry of guns, does cause people, to be more polite to each other. They don’t use speech that is offensive to others so much.

      An armed society is really a much more polite society.

      Which is why the 1st amendment crowd hates guns. When guns are removed from the public square. They can be as disgusting in public. As they are in private.

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        “People like you are the type that made it legal for women to walk around with large sagging exposed breasts.”

        The shame!

        You don’t have the right to control my choice of attire.

        You right wing fascists want to control our lives to fit your imaginary deity’s taboos, screw off, hypocrite.

        Weirdo.

        1. avatar Timothy says:

          I don’t like that thought of people walking around nude. Does that make me a right wing fascist with an imagined deity too? Did you get your Jump to Conclusions Mat out for that, or are you just trying to say the most extreme thing you can think of to try and ensure no one with a brain listens to the Left?

        2. avatar n64456 says:

          Sorry PedoBoi….. We will never accept the normalization of your desire to have sex with young children….

          #PedocratBidenVoter

        3. avatar Chris T in KY says:

          The nudist crowd has never supported civil rights. I know. I was born and raised in California. The home for sexual liberation in the country. The sexually liberated authored and passed gun control in that state.

          And yes I know they don’t like to talk about it. But I will.

        4. avatar Miner49er says:

          “I don’t like that thought of people walking around nude. Does that make me a right wing fascist with an imagined deity too?”

          Only if you carry your thought into action and attempt to somehow restrict my free expression.

          What possible reason could you have for justifying forcing me or anyone else to wear clothes?

          Why should the government be able to force me to buy clothing products from a commercial retailer?

          Isn’t that the same as the government forcing me to buy healthcare insurance from Obamacare?

        5. avatar me says:

          When whiner isn’t making fun of people for not being Christian enough he is making fun of people for being Christian. (exclusively in threads where no one is talking about religion so not sure how whiner knows whos Christian or not)

        6. avatar Timothy says:

          “Why should anyone force me to wear clothes?” So that pedo trash like you isn’t waving their junk in the faces of little kids?!?

      2. avatar Timothy says:

        I interpreted strych as saying he doesn’t agree with the author’s view of OC, not that he thinks OC should be banned.

        1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

          He is comfortable from his home, hundreds of miles way from big burned out cities. Holding his position.

        2. avatar strych9 says:

          As the crow flies I live 25.64 miles from the geographic center of Denver, Colorado.

          I’ve even noted the nearest town, single digits of miles away, before if you were paying attention.

        3. avatar Chris T in KY says:

          to strych9
          You have already said you don’t worry about the mobs because you live off the main roads far back into the woods. Good for you. And living 25 miles from anti gun Denver in a gun friendly county really helps doesn’t it???

          Colorado was taken over by big government potheads. Invaders from California who helped pass bigger government regulations on businesses. Only to find out how those laws negatively effected their own now legal pot store business, in the former golden state.

          I understand voters in Colorado elected a sexually liberated man. Married to another man with kids. Who also hates civil rights. And wants more gun control laws passed. Just like the other sexually liberated bigots in California.

        4. avatar strych9 says:

          So… is Monday your “make myself look like the biggest tool I can” day or something?

          What difference does where exactly I live make, if as you point out, the governor wants the whole state to have more gun control? And what does his sexual orientation have to do with it? Our previous governor, who was straight, gave us plenty of new gun control laws.

          This is getting to the point that I have to wonder if you’re the new Joe R. or something.

          I mean, you’re REALLY hung up on the sex thing in ways that appear to make no sense. You can’t go a post without mentioning something deviant. Either you’ve got some sort of rage issue or you’re so deep in the closet you’re finding next year’s Christmas presents. At this point I’m actually leaning towards the latter.

          Rambling incoherent *arguments* mixed with libel and rage… Jesus Tittyfucking Christ, get your shit together man. This is no way for an adult to act.

        5. avatar Chris T in KY says:

          I will continue to point out how the “sexually liberated” want our guns. Yes I know publicly saying that make you and others uncomfortable. Just as the sexually liberated are very comfortable using tax $$$ to support a single mother, with five kids from 5 different men. Living in a “gun free zone” public housing project. Causing much of the trouble ( broken families) we currently have in many major cities.

          Yes the sexually liberated are really hung up on the sexual activities of gun owning and non gun owning people. They work to have them disarmed. Now you can call me a homophobe. Just like some blacks call people a racist, just because you disagree with them. Yes, that’s right I said it. The sexually liberated have learned well from other intolerant minorities.

        6. avatar strych9 says:

          You’re the one with a[n apparent] pathological inability to go any length of time without posting about sex and sexual orientation here.

          I don’t necessarily disagree with you that there’s a correlation between “alternative sexualilities” and hositility towards the BoR. But that correlation isn’t the end-all-be-all and you give it far, far more attention than it deserves.

          Also, for the record, I didn’t suggest that you’re a homophobe. Quite the opposite in fact. What happened here is that I suggested you might be a little light in the loafers yourself and overcompensating to cover it up.

        7. avatar TheBSonTTAG says:

          Watching Chris and Strech go at it reminds me of why gun rights are so screwed and why Biden won.

        8. avatar anonymous4goodreason says:

          It does appear that we cannot agree even on things we agree on! Also, there’s a lot of personal preference stated regarding articles like this that no one really cares about and only serves to cloud the issue. Either you support OC or you don’t and no one gives a damn whether you prefer concealed. Say it plain or don’t say nuthin’!

          I support everyone’s right to OC!

      3. avatar strych9 says:

        So, let me see if I follow your logic here Chris.

        The author is against OC. I disagree with the author so… I’m somehow against OC even though I’m for it… which I’ve said many times… But it gets deeper!

        See, somehow this leads me not liking cops as a general rule which somehow is tied to topless fat chicks and dildos in your mind… and apparently I think Reagan is a racist, well was, since he’s dead because of a specific law in California…that maybe was passed around 1970 when he was governor… in a state I haven’t been to since my age was in single digits and George H.W. Bush was POTUS… and a state with laws I am not particularly familiar with because, as I just said, I haven’t been there in close to 30 years.

        And somehow this is all tied to the 1A, which apparently you DON’T support by the by, being superior to the 2A in my mind… which you can somehow read.

        And this makes me a FUDD… who owns more tactical rifles and gear than you can probably afford. Riiiiiiight.

        Right, OK, that’s far enough because I’ve had enough batshit crazy without a second pot of coffee. You need to quit making shit up, stop browsing pornhub and probably stop drinking before noon.

        1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

          Since back in March when you told Christians to follow government orders. That you agreed with. For Easter service worshipers to not go to church. But you did support shopping in retail stores. So the Chinese flue won’t get you shopping in walmart??? You seem to agree with the witch governor of Michigan. No strych9, you don’t support the 1st amendment. Just like you don’t support the second.

        2. avatar strych9 says:

          You really are sauced, huh?

          I specifically noted that the Scriptures actually tell people NOT to follow government orders. And I have explicitly noted the 1A issues of closing churches along with the hypocrisy of doing so while allowing “protests”.

          To refresh your memory with reference to my comments on Jesus Himself; Specifically the comment I made was in reference to Mark 12:17. In the context of the tradition in which Jesus was speaking all people are but ashes and dust and can own nothing because everything belongs to God. This applies to Caesar as well since he’s naught but a man. Therefore Mark 12:17 is a subtle way of telling people NOT to render unto Caesar but rather that they should render unto God.

          I’ve explained this right here on TTAG several times over the last number of years and I have never once suggested that the passage is meant to tell Believers to do what the government tells them.

        3. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          strych9,

          Good job!

          The Bible tells us to follow the directives of righteous government — where a “righteous” government never directs us to violate God’s core principles. When a government tells us to violate God’s core principles (e.g. be defenseless and allow evil-doers to rob, rape, and murder you and your family), God graciously allows us to “violate” those obscene directives.

        4. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

          Chris has no tolerance for doubt or nuance. Once he ‘groups’ you, it is forever. He clearly subscribes to identity politics and you have been ‘other-ed”, govern yourself accordingly.

        5. avatar Chris T in KY says:

          Stretch 9 if you’re going to quote the Bible on TTAG, please use the gun quotes in the Bible. Such as 1st Samuel 13:19.

          Also known as the “Gun Control” quote.

          “Now there was no blacksmith to be found throughout all the land of Israel, for the Philistines said lest the Hebrews make their swords or Spears.”

          So in other words it was illegal to have a business that sharpened Spears and or made made swords.

          Or in the 21st century it became illegal for you to have a Gunsmithing business. Where a customer could take his AR-15 in for maintenance.

          Or how about this quote from the Bible. Nehemiah 4:17 and 4:18.

          “Those who built on the wall and those who carry burdens loaded themselves so that with one hand they worked at Construction, and with the other held a weapon. Every one of the builders had his sword girded at his side as he built.”

          Translation:

          So in the 21st century we openly carry guns as we work. Or we can have our weapons holstered properly at our side. Or at sling arms. Or slung a long gun across your back. So that our hands and arms are free to conduct any work necessary.

          The Bible also speaks about the proper storage of “machine guns” in a church. But I cannot find that quote right now. But when I do I will let you know.

          Of course that will be the 21st century translation.

          Yes for you atheists out there who have not read the Bible. The Bible does talk about gun ownership. It does talk about the support for the open carry of guns. While at work.

          Btw
          There are a lot of Christians who don’t know about these quotes as well. They are as ignorant about the Bible as non-believers. They need to study more.

  11. avatar Phantom30 says:

    You should live in Florida, where things are getting ever better.

    1. avatar george lortz says:

      Yes,Sir!

    2. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

      Not for open carry.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Well, of course not! There would be two-gun cowboy rigs, gunfights in the street, the streets would run red with rivers of blood!

      2. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

        Klaus, always carry a fishing pole and tacklebox in your vehicle.

        OC is allowed on the way to, while fishing, and on the way back from fishing… 🙂

        1. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

          I know. I just wish we had O/C so I could have an OWB holster and wear my normal T shirt and unbuttoned top shirt and not worry if it was showing or not. I just prefer OWB holsters.

  12. avatar Daniel S. says:

    Maybe part of the reason the McCloskey’s did what they chose to do, was so they could challenge the law? Bringing it to light, and hoping it will go to the SCOTUS and finally put things right?

    1. avatar Wiregrass says:

      I now think you are giving them too much credit.

    2. avatar Danny L Griffin says:

      Srsly? LOL. It appears that the McCloskeys are left wing loons. Not that their rights are any less important.

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        “left wing loons”

        Nope, they’re your typical crazy Trump supporters, who do not understand the limits of their rights.

        “Mark and Patricia McCloskey, attorneys charged with felony unlawful use of a weapon after they pulled guns on anti-racism protesters outside of their mansion in June, spoke at the Republican National Convention on Monday.

        The McCloskeys argued that Black Lives Matter protesters and liberal radicals would “abolish the suburbs all-together” if they gained power in “Joe Biden’s party” — boosting President Trump’s campaign effort to stoke fears of lawless cities and an end to what he’s called the “Suburban Lifestyle Dream.”

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          I understand that YOUR rights should be limited!

  13. avatar GS650G says:

    Notice the McCloskey house was untouched. Guns save lives and property.

    1. avatar Anymouse says:

      Wow, they were effective. My house wasn’t touched either, and I was several states away. They were never the target of the mob, and there’s no evidence they were even threatened. The mob was on its way to the mayor’s house, which I haven’t seen any reports of being damaged either.

      1. avatar Timothy says:

        There is plenty of evidence that they were threatened. There is the McClosky’s testimony that they were threatened and there is audio from cell phone footage where people are clearly threatening them.

      2. avatar GS650G says:

        Go ahead and take your chances with a mob in front of your house. See how that works out, OKay?

  14. avatar Bob the builder says:

    Laws that allow ‘journalists’ to say anything they want are insane…

    fixed that for you

    1. avatar Miner49er says:

      That would be the first amendment.

      Glad to see you think the Bill of Rights is insane, typical right wing extremist viewpoint.

      That’s one of many reasons why y’all lost the presidential election.

      1. avatar MyName says:

        Your sarcasm – o – meter may need to be calibrated.

  15. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    “Open-carry laws seem, frankly, insane.”

    However it is on the books as the law of the land.Even the departed Ruthie Badgirl Commieberg said “to Bear means to carry” and according to the wording,how and what one carries is up to the individual. Feelz play no part in the law of the lands sanity.

  16. avatar Randy Jones says:

    Well that is what America is all about, the freedom of speech. That doesn’t make Froma Harrop correct, but it lets him voice his opinion. On the other hand, I see no problem with the open display of a firearm. While I do not endorse the way the McCloskeys displayed their weaponry, I do believe they had more right to do so that those who were trespassing to have thier’s displayed. And yes, reportedly but several sources, the trespassers had firearms as well. Hopolophobes fear weaponry. Just like some folks fear spiders or dogs. It doesn’t have to make sense, they just do. Then they want to take away out right to possess something. The Second Amendment was ratified in 19791, it did not give us a right to Keep and Bear, it secured an already existing God given right. If people do not like the founding principles, the Constitution and the laws of this land, as I recall, they are free to leave.

    1. avatar Randy Jones says:

      How did I hit the 7 & 9 key at the same time without an 8? 1791 was the year.

  17. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

    i think the tripod mounted ppsh41 looks nice on the balcony.

  18. avatar WARFAB says:

    Can’t have anyone open carrying so that the Antifa and BLM thugs can do their menacing without fearing for their safety. Wouldn’t want any checks on their mob violence.

  19. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

    “Philadelphia, by contrast, does not permit open carry. That enabled its police to stop two armed Virginia men creeping near the convention center where votes were being counted.”

    Bullshit. Philadelphia has no say in whether or People can carry, openly or concealed, in the city. The state regulates that, with 18 PACS 6108;
    https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=18&div=0&chpt=61

    § 6108. Carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia.

    No person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class unless:

    (1) such person is licensed to carry a firearm; or

    (2) such person is exempt from licensing under section 6106(b) of this title (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license).
    —————————————————————————————————————————–
    No mention of the method of carry at all. I am not familiar with the men she mentioned or their specific alleged crimes, but I can assure that it is not illegal to OC in Philly as long as you have a License To Carry Firearms issued by the state. If you are OCing in Philly with a PA LTCF or reciprocal license/permit from another state and the pigs give you shit then contact attorneys Phil Kline or Josh Prince.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      “.. the nice officers … ” FIFY.

  20. avatar MB (the real MB) says:

    Instead of doing away with open carry restrictions, how about doing away with criminals and enemies of the Republic. Solves both issues, no need for carrying a gun if there is zero chance of being attacked by some rapist, robber, car-jacker, or social justice warrior. Until then I remain armed 24x7x365, thank you.

  21. avatar Jimmy Beam says:

    I’m not a big fan of OC, except when hunting or on the range. Concealed is the way to go when in a public place. However, there should be no law against OC.

    1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

      If you live in a rural area. It makes perfect sense for you to say what you say. You don’t have to worry about mobs coming to your neighborhood. Like these city dwellers do.

      From Aug 2020:
      “After Riots and Looting, Kenosha Residents are Patrolling Their Own Neighborhood”

      https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/after-riots-and-looting-kenosha-residents-patrolling-their-own-neighborhood/

  22. avatar Shire-man says:

    Funny when criminals complain about deterrents.

    Sure, it’s risky to sucker punch grandma if she’s packing but that’s the point.

    1. avatar James Campbell says:

      Like this 69 yr old grandma who was still recovering from open heart and hip replacement surgery?
      Got body slammed and thrown in a pool by an 18 yr old because she asked if they could turn the music down at an apt complex pool party in Florida.

      https://youtu.be/tiaV2W7e-d4

      But this stuff NEVER happens.

      1. avatar JC is a gender confused 🤡 says:

        Another irrelevant post by former Triumph Aerospace janitor and current NRA fluffer Cames Jambell.

        1. avatar Geoff "Trolls, the other white meat" PR says:

          Another irrelevant post by TTAG’s own mentally-ill widdle troll-boy. What a loser you are! 🙂

  23. avatar Scooter says:

    “Bystanders?” Really?

  24. avatar Shiffrod says:

    People seeking to do harm or commit crimes with firearms dont tend to openly display them before doing so. That’s why crime guns are more often than not small, concealable, and stolen or otherwise untraceable.

  25. avatar former water walker says:

    Meh…can’t open carry in ILLinoyed unless you’re a “special” goon with a badge. Free Kyle!

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      Here in MA we are issued a License to Carry (LTC), not a concealed carry license. Open carry is legal and there’s a Supreme Judicial Court case holding the same.

      However, as a practical matter, cops will be called by some ninny who is afraid of the gun. Being forced to put down their donuts always puts cops in a foul mood, which may lead them to cite you for some phony violation as an excuse to relieve you of your heater and your license. Permanently. Even though open carry is legal.

  26. avatar Dude says:

    If open carry is illegal, then could they charge you for accidentally displaying your concealed carry? This could easily happen just by getting out of your vehicle or reaching for something on a high shelf at a store.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      That’s not a bug, it’s a feature. Quite deliberate.

  27. avatar Imayeti says:

    I saw a picture of the above couple standing on their lawn, he with an AR and she with a revolver. Both seemed to be sweeping the protesters, and had a finger on the trigger of the respective weapons.

    1. avatar LampOfDiogenes says:

      She was carrying a revolver. Really. You are that flat-out stupid, and willing to display your stupidity in public. Wow. Nice work, dipshit. She was holding a semi-automatic pistol, you dolt.

  28. avatar Prndll says:

    It’s a ridiculous argument based on fear and manipulation.

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      The left has openly said they don’t want open carry of any guns by private persons because that will normalize guns in America again. When normalization happens fear goes away. Without fear it’s hard to push people to do unreasonable things. Restricting weapons from functioning humans is unreasonable.

      So, they will try very hard to trick ignorant and fearful people into giving up their human rights. How ever that needs to be done to accomplish what the elite want. In the end, disarmament is necessary for the governments/corporations of the world to gain full control of their human resources.

      Free access to weaponry forces the rulers to earn voluntary compliance with their rules. Those rules will have to be logical, intelligently crafted and not a burden. Which creates a very limited set of rules that are universally agreed on. But such a society will not benefit the greedy and oppressive types.

      Law and order types are one of the groups of people destroying humanity and restricting liberty. They are fascist control freaks. They demand compliance or death. They create a violent society either way. Unfortunately, most Republicans are like that. We won’t reverse the current course until these people understand they are advocating for their own demise, which will come very soon for the Republican party like it did to the NRA.

      1. avatar Prndll says:

        1) The NRA has not yet met it’s demise. Anymore than Biden has yet become president. Both are possible. Perhaps likely. But not yet.

        2) Law and order are necessary for a functioning society to grow. Without it, society breaks down into anarchy and eventually self destruction.

        3) Human society has too many ignorant fools that don’t know or understand and don’t care if they ever do. These people occupy all levels and become easily manipulated and lied to.

      2. avatar Old Guy in Montana says:

        Joseph Goebbels approves your message.

        It is a well-written piece of propaganda…completely misdirecting the Trvth (big T or little t). You should be soo proud of your National Socialist Worker’s Party tactics!

        Carry on Chief Minister of Truth.

      3. avatar Danny L Griffin says:

        The left has openly said they don’t want open carry of any guns by private persons because that will normalize guns in America again. When normalization happens fear goes away. </blockquote?

        I have written a number of articles expressing this exact thought!

        1. avatar Danny L Griffin says:

          The left has openly said they don’t want open carry of any guns by private persons because that will normalize guns in America again. When normalization happens fear goes away.

          I have written a number of articles expressing this exact thought!

          (Something weird happened to my previous post and I can’t edit it).

  29. avatar CentralVirginian says:

    Anytime someone thinks laws allow conduct, I know they have no concept of freedom.

    1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

      That is very true.

  30. avatar GunnyGene says:

    In order to be an effective deterrent to a potential aggressor, a threat must be credible. An empty threat is not a deterrent. The McCloskey’s and others perceived a potential aggressor, and therefore presented a credible and effective deterrent to said potential aggressor(s).

  31. avatar NORDNEG says:

    It’s simple, if you’re freaked out by the sight of guns, on a person’s hip or in his or her hands, stay the F _ _ K away,
    Don’t poke the bear stupid…
    & I’ve really had a hard time trying to find any so called PEACEFUL protesters in any video’s in the whole U S .
    “”” FREE KYLE””” & don’t mess with the guns, Karen’s.

  32. avatar Katrina says:

    I am not completely against guns but there should be a law to control open distribution of guns to crazy people.

    1. avatar GunnyGene says:

      There is. The trouble is in identifying who’s crazy and who isn’t.

    2. avatar Old Guy in Montana says:

      Dear Karen Katrina,

      You mean like the many Washington State laws that the rapper Raz Simone broke when he openly distributed firearms to underage protesters this summer at CHAZastan in Seattle??

      I’m still waiting for him to be charged under WA laws…oh, wait…minority, “peaceful” protest, Summer of Love, etc…nothing to see here, move along.

    3. avatar Texican says:

      Katrina, there is no law that will stop a person who wants a gun from getting a gun. The only thing the law does is tell you what is against the law and what your punishment will be for breaking the law. Words on paper have never, not even once, stopped someone from committing a crime. Any crime. The best we can do is deter aggressive behavior with the threat of countervailing force should someone try to hurt us. Guns make that easier for most people. That is why police carry guns. When laws and words don’t work forceful righteous violence will. Arm up. It’ll be a revelation for you.

    4. avatar Southern Cross says:

      Karen, er, Katrina, since you are so woke and knowledgeable, please enlighten us flyover hicks on how these guns are being distributed to “crazy people”?

      Are they given away on the streets? Are they sold by unscrupulous dealers under the counter with a nod and a wink? Are they sold no questions asked at a gun show? Are they thrown out of giant floating heads (Zardoz reference)?

    5. avatar Someone says:

      Sure, because crazy people are totally harmless, until they get their hands (legally) on a firearm. So, instead of taking care of mentally sick individuals, we need to presume all of us are unfit to exercise our constitutionally protected human right to keep and bear arms, unless proven otherwise, right?

  33. avatar adverse6 says:

    The Right to Arms is not a license to be willfully stupid.

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      Actually, it is. If being stupid was illegal, every Democrat would be in prison.

  34. avatar Chief Censor says:

    Then I feel threatened every time I see a cop. Now what?

    1. avatar Geoff "Ammo. LOTS of ammo..." PR says:

      Get right in his-hers-other’s face, and tell them exactly how you feel… 🙂

  35. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    I don’t care who you have sex with. But many of the three L’s do like to interfere in the privacy of welfare recipients. I don’t care if you have 6 or 7 gun safes. And you have your grandads shotgun.

    If you don’t support open carry, then you don’t support the 2A. The 2A is not about hunting. It’s not about having a social club to attend. The 2A is for law abiding citizens to use, to stop a tyrannical government from using mobs as a weapon.

  36. avatar Mark H says:

    When facing a violent mob, that has already demonstrated their willingness to burn down buildings, cowering inside is actually a pretty good way to get burned to death.

  37. avatar Aardvark says:

    Free speech laws seem, frankly, insane.

    1. avatar James Campbell says:

      Not really, just regulate them “better”.

      1) 10 words at a time MAX.
      2) If written, it MUST be by a feather quill.
      3) If printed, must be by on a “single sheet” hand operated press.
      4) Is shared, must be by pony express.

      Common sense 1st A speech control laws.
      You know, as the Founding Fathers INTENDED. 🤪

      1. avatar Old Guy in Montana says:

        Thank you for the best chuckle in days!!

        1. avatar James Campbell says:

          👍

  38. avatar Richard Bunn says:

    Richard Bunn

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Did you mean to say RICHARD Bunn?

  39. avatar A Pooka says:

    Police officers open carry – are they insane and making a threat?

    Bottom line, historically speaking, only cowards and criminals carried “concealed” weapons, Honorable Gentleman and Ladies carried openly.

    I get, generally speaking, we don’t want people walking around with rifles trying to scare people, but that does not mean that walking about with a rifle should be illegal, – it goes to the why.

    Also, I thing open carry of pistols is the preferred method, for a variety of reasons. Anyone that disagrees with me, is obviously insane, like the author.

  40. avatar Vincent says:

    Ok, first off, there is a rather large distance from a holstered weapon on your belt, and Brandishing a weapon. As in waving it around and threatening to use it. While I now live out here in flyover country, I spent many years in large metro areas because of work. And carried a side arm for most of those years. Not wanting to put up with the daily threat of being drawn down on and threatened by police, I usually carried concealed. Even though it was then and still is legal to openly carry in most of those states and cities. Any LEO who feels threatened by someone open carrying should perhaps both take a hard look in the mirror and maybe consider another profession. Point being, in general, while it may be legal to carry openly, if possible, go ahead and get your CC permit and carry that way. Just avoids most of the panic reaction from people like the author and many of those commenting here. Because they never stop to think that you already went through the same back ground check to purchase a fire arm as is used for a carry permit. Asked a Sherriff’s deputy who does the permit work in this county about it. Same check and same approval.

  41. avatar Ralph says:

    Froma Harrup is a [email protected] ninny. There. I said it. Now everybody knows.

  42. avatar Datahut says:

    To some open weapon carry is more of a quality of life issue, like open carry alcohol. I personally have no use or preference for general daily broad ranging public carrying of either that way. But nor do I care if other’s do as long as it’s not coupled with belligerence, intimidating or threatening/obstructive words and/or body language. Met my fair share of mean drunks and weapon carriers to know the difference and how to handle it too.

  43. avatar % of crimes done by legal gun owners, .oooo2%! Criminals 99.9998% any questions? says:

    I’d rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6!

  44. avatar Daniel Hoover says:

    Dumb ass article and I don’t give a f*** what she/it thinks. I’ll carry how I want. That being said don’t mow you lawn while carrying an weapon. You will be charged with brandishing. BS

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Boosht. Story a couple years ago, guy mowing his lawn, fella comes unto his yard with a gun and demands money. guy gives him all the money he has, fella says give me more or I shoot you. So, guy pulls his own gun and shoots fella dead, end of story. Carry EVERYWHERE, all the time.

  45. avatar M1Lou says:

    Keep and bear arms. If I can’t open carry in public, then I am unable to bear arms. Holding a weapon inside my house is not bearing arms in the sense that Madison would have wanted. He wrote the 2A, and he also wrote the Federalist papers on bearing arms. It’s in the constitution there buddy.

  46. avatar Alan says:

    Exactly what is it that troubles the writer about about a visibly armed individual, that is an individual whose pistol or revolver is holstered, going about their own business, spelled Lawful Activities? Additionally, why is the writer upset? I suppose that there is the possibility of some individual going off half cocked, as that old saying goes, but what guaranty is there that the individual going off half cocked would not be a police officer?

  47. avatar Hannibal says:

    “A firearm conspicuously displayed on the street is a threat — including to law enforcement officers, who are sometimes the targets…”

    Uh, no. Someone can run a cop over with a car at any moment, that doesn’t mean we get to define cars as threats wither.

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      *either

  48. avatar JB says:

    The author said, “If I feared my home could be invaded by what Mark McCloskey said was an “out-of-control mob,” I’d be inside, crouched under a window.”

    That statement alone was all I needed to know they are an idiot. No further discussion needed.

  49. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    The problem with gun owners, FUDDs, who don’t support OC is, they don’t support the part of the 2A that says. To keep “AND BEAR ARMS”.

    So they “keep” their Arms in a safe. But they don’t “bear arms” anywhere. And they don’t support you bearing arms either.

  50. avatar IBTZ says:

    Laws that let c*nts like Froma Harrop write their garbage are insane.

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