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(AP Photo/Amanda Morris)
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Reader Cliff M. writes:

The gun rights crowd is overrun with freedom freeloaders: Folks who refuse to participate in gun rights groups, communicate with their representatives in government, or even vote. We used to get away with this, but Bloomberg’s years of spending are changing this rapidly.

Let’s take a look at this weekend’s Bloomberg-financed Mom’s Demand Action conference in DC. They had 1,800 volunteers fly in from all over the country to train to enact gun control. They were sitting in classrooms learning how to organize local groups, engage their legislatures, run for political office, and even take over their local school boards.

Now what about gun rights activists? For the most part, we do quite a bit of complaining, and that’s about it. Donating to groups like GOA and the NRA have been viewed as good enough, and then we just sit back and watch.

Those groups are worthwhile to support, but they’ve been rendered impotent due to forces working against them. Groups like GOA, despite their growth in popularity, are not providing what we need. Have they provided the kind of organization, structure, enthusiasm and training that MDA has? No, they post red meat on social media, lobby already pro-gun representatives, and engage in the occasional reactive lawsuit.

Yelling “Come and Take It” isn’t a strategy. Our opponents have already called that bluff. If existing gun rights groups want to be considered relevant, they need to step up and take on the anti-rights groups that are currently more effective.

What are the consequences of continued inaction? Well, let’s use Virginia as an example. Virginia is at serious risk of its General Assembly flipping blue this November. The consequences of that would be severe for two reasons.

First and foremost, immediately following the election, the state is required to review its district borders. If a Democrat-controlled legislature re-districts the state, Virginia is at risk of never having a gun-friendly majority ever again. Second, Virginia Democrats are out for gun control with a vengeance, and the special session they convened proves it.

Without very serious and engaged manpower, within less than a year Virginia could have some of the strictest gun laws on the East Coast, from which there will be no return.

All of this is at risk, but you know what? For the most part, the very pro-2A state of Virginia is doing little to protect itself. There is an excellent local grassroots group called the Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) that provides the perfect backbone of organization we need, but it has very little participation.

In the run up to the July 9th special session, they stated they had 7,000 members. That’s in a state with 8.5 million people. Roughly 500,000 people in Virginia have a concealed carry permit. How can one of the cornerstone pro-rights organizations within the state only have 7,000 members?

In my little corner of Virginia, I have three local gun shops that are always busy. Why aren’t more these gun owners involved? Why aren’t these gun shops encouraging customer participation? Why is it that we allow the district delegate (Kelly Fowler) to be one of the most anti-rights delegates in the state?

How about this little tid-bit recently that was included in a VCDL Newsletter, which has a legislator saying the state’s gun owners are grossly under-represented:

Had my sit-down with my Democratic General Assembly member yesterday. It was cordial – I made my points, he listened (or pretended to, anyway). The most alarming thing he said was when I asked what the ratio of correspondence he receives is. He said he receives the most correspondence from Moms Demand Action members by a long shot. We need to do better. When I posted asking for tips before my meeting, several people said “don’t bother.” Well, if we all “don’t bother” then don’t gripe when things don’t go your way.

We have options, but we have to step up and act as individuals. A recent popular post on Reddit illustrates an example of what we as individuals can accomplish:

Due to a new push for civilian disarmament in my state, I decided to do something I’ve never done before: Personally meet with my state representative to discuss the issues. While getting prepared for this meeting, I found essentially no useful information online. I even contacted the local grassroots group I am a member of, who’s monthly newsletter occasionally contains reports of other member’s visits, and got nothing useful. Instead, I was sent a list of decades-worn talking points. I already knew my representative would roll their eyes at these given their firm anti-gun leanings. I am writing about my experience to share what I learned by doing, and to hopefully inspire you to do the same.

Read the whole thing.

We can also join local groups, like VCDL, where we can work together to push voting drives, lobby, and protest in large numbers that prove we are actually relevant in this debate.

Lastly, we need to control our legislatures. Elections, like this one coming up in Virginia, have average participation rates of around 40%. With such low numbers, every vote counts.

Every gun club, gun shop, pro-rights group, and couch potato MUST mobilize in large numbers to ensure we’re being accurately represented. If politicians begin viewing gun control as politically inconvenient again, we can’t counter those who want to take our rights away.

We’ve all heard the figure that the Revolutionary War was only fought by only 3% of the population. It’s time again to take back our rights, and we need to do better than 3% doing all the work this time.

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  1. How about some fresh talking points. The most fervent come-n-take-iters actually do more damage. Like the shootout when the cops question a gun owner. It just confirms with hard news the bias against gun owners.

    Was at a gun show this weekend and heard loads of table chatter about bringing on the next civil war. At some point that becomes inciting terrorism

    • Yeah… when a member of Congress praises a terrorist attack against an ICE facility and doesn’t go to jail, I stopped caring what the left has to say or what laws they pass.

      • Why would someone go to jail for espousing a disgusting political position? I don’t think people should go to jail for having evil opinions. Maybe I misunderstood what you said.

        I’m more upset that people voted for them.

        • I would say every single person in politics except like 2 or 3 people maybe have committed treason through actions. I would support imprisonment. How ever not for ideas no matter how bad. Only through actions against the country and laws violating our rights.

          I agree with your sentiment though.

        • The fact is, most of these POTG posting on here about Civil War or Time to kill Democrats or kill the commies, is just not intellectually capable of forming a reasonable argument for their position.

          Like most bullies, they fall back on threats of physical violence.

          And I’m thankful they lack the testicular fortitude to carry out their terroristic threats.

          Many of them are childlike in their anger and resentment, but when that childish anger is coupled with a 90 round drum mag, reasonable people become rightfully concerned.

      • Forgive the ignorance, I’ve been out with pneumonia and am just now getting back to life.

        Was it Cortez who praised the attack?

        • I would be interested in seeing an actual citation where these 4 Congress people praised the attack on the ICE facility.

        • “among others, yes. Basically the entire “squad”.”

          Sergei, Would you please share the statements of support that you claim these 4 Congress people have made?
          Thanks in advance!

      • When a member of the Supreme Court was an open avowed member of the KKK, I ignore whatever rulings they made.

        • I assume you’re speaking of justice Hugo black.

          It is not really surprising that an individual born in Alabama in 1888, would be involved with the KKK. If indeed, he had maintained the racist views in here in KKK membership, one could view him with distain.

          Thankfully, justice black learned from his earlier mistakes and ended up being a champion of civil rights for all Americans.

          I would be interested in what provision of the US Constitution one would be exercising when they chose to ignore the decisions of the United States Supreme Court. As I read the constitution, the United States Supreme Court is the supreme judicial authority in America and their decisions are quite literally, the supreme authority.

          Of course, if the United States Constitution means nothing to you, then one could ignore any portion of it. But that would not be the patriotic option.

  2. The framers drafted the 2nd with two parts. The first one enumerated the right of the people to form militia’s and the second part enumerated the right to keep and BEAR arms. The motivation was that this would provide a check and balance against the government getting out of control. We have let the militia part die. The government isn’t afraid of us rising up in response to them curtailing our freedom.

    • The militia most certainly isn’t dead. We’ve simply allowed the anti-gunners to grow larger than the militia and gain office to control the narrative.

      The average American (anti-gunner and even gun-owning FUDDs) now believes that our safety rests in the hands of LE instead of our own.

      • NO. The militia is every man over the age of 18. Even if an idiot prog. If you own an AR you are an active member of the militia.

        Have you provided for an AR for every member of your family?

        • The militia of the United States also encompasses non-citizens of the United States of America.

          All that is necessary is that an individual declares their intention to become a citizen, they then become a member of the militia. So all who come to America and request asylum and citizenship automatically become members of the militia of the United States of America.

          Isn’t that fascinating?

        • Good morning yellow devil!

          I love that handle, what a classic racial slur from the 1800s. I’m thinking it was used on the West Coast to denigrate folks of Chinese ancestry.

          Of course it was the white people massacring the Chinese, like in San Francisco in 1871, that was a real problem but apparently the white owned newspapers were much happier to portray the Chinese as the aggressors.

          Be that as it may, I’m more interested in your ideas about the united states militia.

          Perhaps you might care to examine the militia act, that authorizes non-citizens to be members of the United States militia, it is quite interesting. And as we all know, the second amendment right to keep and bear arms applies to all people in the United States, not just citizens. That is the black-letter-law of the constitution.

  3. Quite often, firearms owners are their own worst enemies.

    The duck hunters don’t like the AR-15 “black rifles” so they see no problem if attempts are made to ban them.

    The traditional rifle owners don’t like machine guns, so they have no problem with them being legislated out of existence.

    Some pistol owners see nothing wrong with certain long guns being outlawed just as some rifle owners would have no problem seeing pistols banned.

    You see, anti-gunners want them all. They will chip away a little at a time until their goal of civilian disarmament is complete.

    They have an excuse for banning every firearm.

    Scoped bolt-action rifles are defined by anti-gunners as “sniper rifles” because they are “too accurate”.

    Magazine-fed weapons are suspect because of high (actually normal) magazine capacity.

    Handguns are suspect because they are “easily concealable”.

    The gun grabbers want them all and have made (flimsy and suspect) excuses for banning every type of firearm. They don’t care how long it takes. and will use incrementalism to their advantage.

    Friends, ALL firearms advocates must “hang together” and realize that an assault on ANY means of firearms ownership and self-defense is an assault on ALL forms of firearms ownership and self-defense.

    There is absolutely NO ROOM for complacency among ANY Second Amendment supporters. An attack on one is an attack on ALL…

    ALL firearms laws are unconstitutional on their face. Imagine the hue and cry if “reasonable” restrictions were placed on First Amendment activities, especially with the “mainstream media”.

    The Second Amendment is clear–what part of “shall not be infringed” do politicians and the media not understand…of course, they understand full well…it’s part of their communist agenda…

    Even the NRA bears some responsibility for capitulation on matters concerning firearms.

    The NRA failed when it allowed the National Firearms Act of 1934 to stand without offering opposition, the 1968 Gun Control Act, the NICS “instant check” system, the “no new machine gun for civilians” ban in 1986, the so-called “assault weapons” ban in 1994, and other infringements of the Second Amendment.

    Let’s face it. What better way to increase membership than to “allow” infringements to be enacted and then push for a new membership drive.

    Yes, the NRA has done good, but its spirit of “compromise” will only lead to one thing…attempted confiscation as is already the case with “bump stocks”.

    • The NRA was not in the “civil rights” business in 1934 or 1968. There was no/little understanding by society of the prog agenda either time so you can’t really hang the NRA for either. Even in the 80s there was no such understanding by the majority of gun owners or conservatives. Undoing the works of gov’t is VERY difficult. So today.

  4. Contact your rep? My state rep in VA is a feelings-first type just like Fowler. They glom onto any study regardless of methodology to show that guns = violence, and ignore research to the contrary. In their ideology, self-defense and individualism are subordinate to victimhood and collectivism. These reps cannot be swayed. They have to be replaced.

    I think what MDA has shown is a case study in emotion-driven voter turnout. To counter it, we have to focus on DGUs. MDA highlights victims. We need to highlight those who refuse to be victims and call it “empowerment”.

  5. I think the NRA tactics are largely to blame, they set themselves up as “pay us to be your lobbyist, we will make the back room deals and meet with the politicians for you” culture. They have money, but they just send in their one paid lobbyist but don’t seem to do much to organize groups of people. I looked into their NRA grassroots in the wake of Parkland and they didn’t even seem to have positions filled to even contact. They don’t do rallies much.

    On the other hand they did help to get Trump elected, so it seems a lot of effort and money on that front worked, though that is at best a tainted win. Actually usually the “wins” are tainted wins, you can have some gun owner protections but no machine guns, you can have some state department reg cleanup with a side of bump stock bans. So maybe we won’t ban assault weapons, yet, for a national red flag law?

    I guess one could argue whether we should attempt to fight the organized gun controllers with similar tactics, or whether we are supposed to go another route. With their media handlers it “feels” like they have the upper hand, but that is by design. On the other hand we have people actually passionate about a hobby, a lifestyle, a right, a tangible thing you can actually use, and they just have people who don’t like something and want to take it away. That is the main advantage we will always have.

    • “local” NRA contacts are volunteers (with real jobs/lives). They are not paid trolls and Bloombergs POS. Which do you think is more effective? A paid troll or a citizen vol/true believer?

      Have you volunteered?

  6. Exactly! How many of you have had bitch sessions about our dwindling gun rights and asked the group “are you all NRA members or GOA or any organized rights group”? On average, how many say they are? I’ve seen an average well below 50%. I happen to live in a state with very little representation in D.C. but I still piss into the wind, make my feelings known. (Form letter response)! Most of us have seen the results of Bloomberg’s largesse in our states, and the sad truth is, it works.

  7. It is painfully obvious to me that talking points, fresh or old, are of no use when our opponents refuse to dialogue and demand more concessions. There is NO middle ground when your only option is to give up more of your rights or all of your rights. The ballot box and the cartridge box are our only options. Both “boxes” can protect and preserve our rights. Box #1 or box #2? Make sure you, your family, and your friends vote!

  8. It seems like someone with the right connections could easily make MDA a trending category on Pornhub. Create an intermediary site that works the google search results correctly to become the top rated result for “Moms Demand Action” and suddenly MDA is preoccupied with a PR fiasco and possibly has to rename and regroup.

    Not sure if Google’s left leaning bias would shut down such an effort.

  9. You do not win by only playing defense. This is why conservatives have failed to conserve even the women’s restroom.

    You win by imposing costs on your enemies.

    • A big part of the reason Trump got elected. He wasn’t/isn’t content to just play defense on a host of issues.

      Unfortunately his 2A stances aren’t quite what we’d all hoped.

      • The entire unique American experiment has been under attack for decades (or perhaps more than a century). It’s just in recent years they SOB are making considerable progress. The attacks on the 2nd just being a hot button symptom of the overall problem.

      • Not quite? That’s the understatement of the year. Trump in 3 years has passed more gun control than Obama did in 8 years and he is now calling for red flag laws and universal background checks.

        With how obedient the Republicans are to him and how idiotic the average Trump voter is, this man stands to flip the Republican party to an anti-gun agenda thereby making both parties staunchly anti-gun.

        We are seeing a turning point in the USA right now. No one is happy with the direction we are taking and the solution from both sides is bigger government. If you think a nationalist agenda won’t also bring along sweeping gun regulations you are a fool who has never read history. And that is the “pro-gun” side. The Commies on the left are absolutely anti gun with 100% of the presidential candidates saying they will ban and confiscate firearms.

        To put it bluntly, we better hope that Trump’s judges protect us cause the other branches of government are now our enemies.

        • Agreed. I think many POTG originally set expectations way to high. Trump made progress for gun rights, some folks are so focused on the cons they forgot all the pros.

  10. Moms that need more action is full of retired and stay at home upper middle class females financed by big money donors lead by professional organzers. They can get a group to go anywhere at any time on little to no notice. They also round up welfare recipients and unemployed people off the streets in areas where that is the norm. They bus them in, and give them food, a t shirt, and sometimes cash.

    We have to take off work ( and we do), provideour own food and transportation (and we do), but we can’t do it without weeks or months notice.

    We also have a bunch of ossified old pro gun organizations at the state level whose leaders do not provide help, support, or training to those who would join and are stuck in doing things a certain way such that many volunteers do it once or a few times and then give up in frustration. Between dealing with politicians and dealing with grass roots groups leadership it really discourages people. The local groups do yeoman work (which NRA claims credit for) but they could do a lot more if they stopped alienating their own suppirters.

    • When Obama was president and before the NRA started sticking its snout into our efforts, we managed to always GREATLY out number MDA at their hissy-fit protests in Ohio. IIRC, without us, they wouldn’t have had more than a handful of audience at a few of their shin-digs. They were really pathetic.Then, Trump was elected and all we heard was “MAGA” and NRA. It drove away many of us (including more than a few combat veterans) that had been doing the work for decades out-of-pocket. We tried to stomach it for a while but it was all just too much. We were basically told get on board or don’t bother showing up because we “knew nothing” about how this war is won. Of course, most of us said, “Fuck it. Let it burn.”

  11. First, rather than just a general GoA, I’d like to see each state have its own chapter. GoA-VA. GoA-FL. That sort of thing. To my knowledge these chapters dont exist but I could (hopefully) be wrong.
    Second, trying to convince politicians who arent gun-savvy or are anti-gun is a difficult proposition. Ideally, we should cultivate our own representatives. We need to have a heart-to-heart with candidates running and show them not only are black rifles not evil but just how useful and practical they are. How easy they are to shoot accurately. How a standard AR can allow one person to fend off a group of criminals. How “silencers” are not hollywood silent. How the 556 bullet doesnt penetrate barriers or targets as much as pistol rounds and that means less collateral damage. We also need to show them how trivial certain gun laws are (stock vs brace, angled foregrip vs vertical foregrip, etc) and show them that anyone can easily make these currently-illegal modifications, but law-abiding gun owners dont not because they physically cant but because they respect the law. Criminals, on the other hand, dont respect the law and with nothing to physically stop them they can get a leg-up on law-abiding gun owners by attaching a stock and vertical forgrip to a rifle and shoot at 50m while a law-abiding gun owner is struggling to do the same with a pistol in legal configuration.

    We need politicians that believe in this stuff as strongly as we do. We need to invite them over to our clubs, befriend them and make them one of us. That will go much further than simple phone calls ever could.

  12. I’m all for throwing our politicians in prison, or borrowing a French guillotine…If they are the architects, collaborators and shills of those out to destroy our constitutional-Bill of Rights. Yes, many low information voters have been programmed into being excellent little tax slaves and drones…I deal with it every day at work…Dumbs broads who absolutely DON’T know what their talking about blather way about talking points they all heard on CNN or a leftist local news station…They DON’T care if the 2nd Amendment goes away. It doesn’t fit in with their lifestyle, they could careless…They are more than happy to bring about Authoritarianism if makes them feel better..They have not a clue….Until their being dragged away by armed commandos to a final resting place in a labor camp, concentration camp, or other future nightmare some political elite can come up with for his fellow man and woman of low class….

  13. No fool what actually needs to happen is we need to ditch the fool boomers who are constantly hoodwinked by MSM and emotional propaganda dumbest lowest critical thinking generation in American history that loves sending their children do die in wars while stripping the homeland of all constitutional rights boomers are pathetic hahaha.

  14. New taliking points
    1. I like the police. But I can’t rely on them to be everywhere I need them.

    2. When a cop refuses to try and save school children and he is the SRO from them. That is a leadership failure.

    3. When the on site officers also refuse to enter a school building to save the children that also is a leadership failure.

    4. The local police are ordered by the elected city leadership to stand down and do nothing as law abiding citizens are attacked and beaten. This is especially the new reality in 2019.

    5. As licensed gun owners I know we are better trained on average than most policemen. (insert data fact here). Tell them to ask their local chief how often his officers attend training? This will be an uncomfortable conversation. There are plenty of stories about cops shooting at and missing the bad guy. But it’s part of explaining why people can’t rely on the police.

    6. It’s time to get serious about talking and taking First aid training.

    7. The general public needs to learn the stories of Shaneen Allen, Carol Bowne, Kate Steinle.

  15. What do you do when you suggest to somebody that due process is invaluable to respecting the rights and liberties of everyone in this nation and they shout back “YOU’RE A GODDAMN NAZI!”?

    There’s only so much you can do when the opposition is a mob of tantruming toddlers who operate on emotion and intentional ignorance.

    The inevitable end is to either give up hoping they’ll shut up or glass the earth and start over.

    • I don’t think glassing the Earth is necessary. 😋True, there isn’t a democratic solution, but, thank God our forefathers created a republic! Their blueprint is still a good one we just need to dust it off on focus on the States that have people ready and able to understand it. More local governments have the greatest power to resist goofy elitist mandates coming from compromised D.C. Folks need to coalesce in States still receptive to traditional American values and resist efforts to undermine them. People do this unconsciously already, see the mass exodus from Blue states to Red States. But the Right needs to actualize, think more collectively, and reaffirm the core American identity. And fiercely defend it this time. Don’t associate with the people hurling slurs like Nazi. Leave them out in the cold.
      Let the 1960s pipedream of a totalitarian, multicultural, corporatist empire governing a diverse multitude die. It not worth losing sleep over. It was never an original American vision. Our founders had that option with the British Empire, but chose not to be a part of it. Look at how that ended up anyway, the British are a divided people now vainly trying to scrabble for some semblance of sovereignty. Their fate will ultimately be decided by others.

    • “What do you do when you suggest to somebody that due process is invaluable to respecting the rights and liberties of everyone in this nation and they shout back “YOU’RE A GODDAMN NAZI!”?”

      Ever notice how they only do this when they’re preaching to the choir of 5%? There’s a reason for that.

      Get them to do this in public and watch them go down in flames. This is effectively a public debate. Even with the squishy middle, throwing a tantrum suggests you’re childish and really don’t have any ideas.

      So get them to flip shit in that debate and they just lost it. It’s when they appear reasonable and we don’t that we have a serious problem. People will generally pick the person who appears to 1) have a plan and 2) act like some semblance of an adult.

      Fuck man, I spend an inordinate amount of time dealing with undergrads at Colorado University BOULDER and this Leftwing ranting and totally flipping shit doesn’t worth with them. They just roll their eyes at it.

      It’s red meat for the base. Let them do it. All they do is expose themselves for the unintelligent assholes that they are.

  16. Ask which of Amendments 4 through 8 they would repeal since most of them at one time or another put criminals back on the streets. Or what other rights they will surrender to achieve some degree of “safety”?

  17. “He who cares most wins.” I care as much as I can afford to which means I carry when I leave the house. I care enough to vote too, at least that’s still free and worth every cent. Maybe gun control could come with some exemptions for low income citizens, surely Bernie or AOC could get behind that…

  18. Besides being a member of the NRA, GOA, SAF and a few local/state 2A groups, I have infiltrated my local Republican organization and have become a committeeman. I have some influence on selection of local candidates for township and county offices. I work hard before election day to get out the vote for pro-2A candidates.

    Does that count?

  19. Sure…step it up you lazy and shiftless gun owner’s. ALL my “reps” are demscum. My state has been hijacked by dims. WHEN it “mattered” thousands showed up in Springfield,IL. Except on the local level my vote doesn’t count. Lecture someone else…

    • Become the biggest burr under their saddle that they ever can imagine. Imagine you are promoting a stroke.

      I got more satisfaction calling my former POS prog Senator (Harkin) than in contacting my conservative (former) house rep.

  20. Get busy: The apathy of conservatives during a “conservative” administration always leads to a loss of constitutional rights.

    Find a local FACL class, they will train you. Take the classes and you will see how state and fed level Pro-Gun bills can be passed:

    Sign up for American Firearms Coalition’s email campaigns and support them:

    Find your state orgs that actually defeat gun grabbers and put forward bills that advance the 2a cause:

  21. Ask your prog legislator if they will send the ARs seized to Hong Konk where they are urgently needed by a disarmed population.

  22. The cynical part of me laughs.

    As of the TL;DR crowd, which is large, is going to contact a representative!? Brah, these people can’t be bother to read anything longer than a Twitter comment.

    Then there’s the “Muh God Given Riiiiiiiiaaaaahts” group, oh yeah, I bet they’re just fantastic at interpersonal relations when it comes to dealing with a politician that isn’t already in the 2A corner.

    The “get off my lawn” OFWG crowd? What are they gonna do? Go in and lobby the pol to ban Elvis because hip gyrating is the way the motherfuckin’ Devil infects the youth and makes ’em into mass shooters?

    How about that “It’s a false flag!!!!!” group? How’s that conversation gonna go? It’s not because the moment you make the decision to tell a representative the CIA/FBI/NSA/mothership is gonna beam a signal to the chip in your tooth and you’ll Arkancide yourself!

    Maybe the “I’m not a racist but…” crowd can go in and tell the politician in question all about the “Dindus”…

    No, seriously, we got lazy. We farmed out the job to contractors who didn’t GAF and now we’ve gotta clean up that mess. But the fact that we farmed it out in the first place speaks to a much deeper problem that we need to fix first. That problem is getting our own house in order.

  23. None of us want criminals or crazies to have access to guns. And we are just as concerned about the safety of our kids and grandkids as the anti-gunners. We also expect that when our wives or girl friends go to the mall or to a movie, that they’ll return alive! In other words, our goals aren’t really that different than the anti-gunners, just how we can get there is very different.

    So I have a question: As a Pro-2A gun owner, what would YOU do to prevent crazies and criminals from getting guns while protecting the rights of the 2A community? I’d like to see a serious conversation that would enable us to be part of the solution while still maintaining our rights.

    (This is really a serious question because we can’t just say no, we have to also provide a solution).

    • I find it amazing that everyone is offering solutions or suggestions, but I still hear little to no chatter about the almighty internet/social media. I understand that almost everyone desperately wants their lifeline to the WWW, but how many of these losers would still be hiding in mom’s basement closet if it wasnt for instant access to some of the most disgusting, violent, gratuitous hedonism imaginable? Yeah, I know FIRST AMMENDMENT! , while we’re looking at tweaking the second, let’s take a good long look at how the web influences evil little morons like the ones last week.

    • It’s a sparse conversation, because everybody wants to take away the things that are important to the “other guy,” while leaving all their own favorite things alone.

      Case in point: the abuse and misuse of alcohol consistently kills TWICE as many people as are killed with a gun – including suicides. Yet how many of those gun-haters are on board to ban alcohol? None, because THEY like alcohol.

      They don’t like guns, so they couldn’t care less how effective or non-effective taking yours away from you is.

    • You are exactly correct and why more POTG won’t accept this reality is amazing.

      It seems rather than offer solutions some POTG just want to rant about killing their political opponents.

      And that’s exactly why their political opponents want to remove the deadly weapons from their hands, can you blame them?

    • “None of us want criminals or crazies to have access to guns.”

      You begin from a false premise. I don’t care if criminals or crazies have ACCESS to guns.

      Exercise of the unalienable individual right to keep and bear arms cannot be adequately protected without accepting that some criminals or crazies will have access to guns. No matter how you start that process, it will eventually, sometimes taking generations to do so, end up here.

      The solution you seek is here:
      1) Anyone not a charge of a legitimate guardian can freely exercise their unalienable right to keep and bear arms. That’s the plain meaning of “shall not be infringed”. Of course, the guardian is responsible for the reasonable safety of their charge.
      Examples include: A surgeon and patient, a child and parent, a prisoner and jailer, etc.
      2) Legal barriers to self defense need to be lowered to the least possible level.

      That’s the way this country was founded and the only recipe for a free society. Unless someone is in the legitimate custody of another, they are ultimately responsible for their own safety. It cannot be outsourced to government and then expect society to remain free.

      • That’s a completely irresponsible position, and could be the reason we’ll ultimately lose the 2A debate!

        First, let me say I am as pro-2A as anyone: I have a concealed carry permit in NYS, I own 7 pistols, a 12 ga Mossberg 500 for home defense, a 20 ga Weatherby shotgun for clay shooting, and I own an AR-15. And yeah, I’m an NRA Life Member but I’m also a member of the GOA, SAF and the NYS Rifle and Pistol Association (they’re the ones suing NYC with a Supreme Court hearing scheduled for the fall). In other words, I am as invested in 2A rights as anyone.

        Having said that, I’m having a hard time believing the rhetoric I’m hearing from pro-2A folks. Do you live in a bubble? Have you not noticed the public opinion has hit a tipping point against us? Have you seen that traditionally pro-gun states are turning? Even Texas is in play – and who would ever have imagined that?

        THEIR MESSAGING is unified and controlled. Even though their facts are wrong, they use emotion to their advantage, and it’s working. I wouldn’t be surprised if we begin to see an attempt to repeal the 2nd Amendment. And if that happens, and follows the procedure as prescribed by the Constitution, there would be no legitimate retaliation.

        OUR MESSAGING IS NONSENSICAL! Basically, it’s “Come and get it!” “We’ll start a revolution!” Or as you just stated “I don’t care if criminals or crazies have access to guns” implying that you really don’t care about the shootings. It makes us sound like heartless assholes who don’t care that innocent people are being killed, that all we care about are our guns! I’m HOPING that’s not true, but that sure is how we sound!

        We all have kids and grandkids that we want to be safe. We expect that when our wives or girlfriends go to the mall or to a movie, that they’ll return alive. And we can (hopefully) grieve with those who have had substantial loss from needless shootings.

        And yes, I agree that the actual numbers of mass shooting fatalities are low compared to our population, but the impact on the psyche of the nation is profound! As gun owners, we’re not viewed as “patriots” who desire to protect ourselves and others, we’re viewed as insolent children stamping our feet because we’re not getting our way.

        Yes, there’s the ‘slippery slope’ and that’s a true concern. But like it or not, we’re already on that slope. We know more controls are coming. So unless you’re really ready to start a revolution (and that would be a really bad idea – what do suppose Russia, China and the rest of our enemies would be doing while we fight among ourselves), let’s start being SMART AND PROACTIVE for a change.

        As the author said, if controls are going to come, wouldn’t it be far better if WE determined those controls? And that’s why I asked the question looking for positive solutions.

        LET’S TAKE THE RED FLAG LAWS AS AN EXAMPLE: I’m very much against them as they’ve been written although I appreciate what they want to accomplish. HOWEVER, if a law was written that included prompt due process for the person accused AND a serious penalty for those who make phony accusations, then I would support it. That would seem to be a reasonable compromise between safety and not infringing on our rights.

        BOTTOM LINE: No, it’s NOT ok for criminals and crazies to have access to guns!

        • Bravo! Well stated and thought out, especially the part about our real enemies sitting back watching with undisguised glee while we tear each other apart. Way too many folks on both sides forget or dont realize there are very wealthy, power hungry people pulling the strings in this war, and have a large stake in the outcome!

      • “First, let me say I am as pro-2A as anyone”

        No, you are a Fudd. You wouldn’t know what “shall not be infringed” meant if it bit you in the ass.

        Keep playing the losing game. You’ll get exactly what you deserve.

  24. Old talking point: Cops can’t be everywhere. The weren’t there when my wife and I had five guys set an ambush for us. I displayed my armed status and they lost interest. How does idiot lefty Democrat eyeroll trump my personal experience?

    It doesn’t, and never will. I frequently contact my representatives but they aren’t braindead leftists. Oh yeah, I just sent a donation to GOA, because they don’t compromise.

  25. Blah blah blah. Typical entitled demands and whining. Go ahead and pretend it’s something else. There are people who get wealth and power by understanding how much crap you’ll take from politics, do you think you can fool them?

  26. Fine. We’ll just march up to our legislatures with long guns over our shoulder. Who’s first?

    Who is anyone kidding. We own firearms because we follow rules and laws. The left is using laws and lawyers against us. Our gun ownership is protected by one amendment. Not the NRA or gun rights groups. Not by letters or even voting. One amendment.

    We are entering uncharted territory. The two sides of these debates are not about compromise, it’s all in for the win. We got a few years with Trump, a Democrat will disarm us all legally and then expect law enforcement to make it happen. Go ahead and ask the courts for help. Meanwhile the actions go on.

    We all have a few guns off the books without a paper trail. They know about the rest. These people are motivated and financed and determined. They will send letters , then ruin people legally. They won’t need to knock on a single door.

    Well let’s see how it turns out.

    • The problem for the left is that those letters will have a return address and when the first people receive them, they will complain on the internet. It doesn’t even matter if most of them comply, since there will be a reaction to those complaints from others. What will the response be? It might not be directly anti personnel contrary to what you imply, at least at first. Unlike what that idiot Swalwell thinks this wouldn’t be a normal war. Read up on 4th generation warfare to get an understanding of how it might work.

  27. Why aren’t we more involved?

    1) We’re working
    2) We’re not being supported by 501c3 backed billionaires
    3) We’re working
    4) We foolishly believe that the constitution of the united states and the law of the US is on our side.
    5) We’re working
    6) We’re not supported by the main stream media so our side will be mischaracterized
    7) Did I mention we’re working?
    8) We don’t have labor unions that pay us to show up and bus us state capitals to counter protest.
    9) Still working
    10) We don’t have lobbyists that can buy as many politicians as the anti-gunners (despite what CNN thinks, the NRA doesn’t toss nearly as much money into the swamp as the anti’s do.)
    11) Oh yea…..working.

    So there’s a good list of excuses. To all those that say “Excuses excuses, gotta protect the right or you’ll lose it, bla bla bla” I say, “Well, if thats what has to happen than I guess we lose it. However, The grabbers may find they’ve turned this nation into a brushfire battlefield for their troubles.”

    “There is simply no comparison between a man who is armed and one who is not. It is simply unreasonable to expect that an armed man should obey one who is unarmed, or that an unarmed man should remain safe and secure when his servants are armed.” – except from The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli

    • Exactly! And we’re half way there. Difficult trying to make people understand that the ones who take our rights and way of life dont care if it takes 10,20,50 years. As long as the end game is accomplished. Whereas most people today are driven by instant gratification.

  28. If you are waiting for our legal system to work, Please don’t hold your breath, your liberty is already lost, Hell I had to have a hearing to get permission to cut down a tree (which I own) on my own property. So, if your waiting for anything good coming out of the courts concerning gun rights, good luck. Liberty delayed is liberty denied. The laws are not the same for everyone. Example: In Seattle the homeless are allowed to set up tents blocking sidewalks and defecating in the street while violating the law with impunity, while I have go have a permit just to park my vehicle in the woods and go on a hike.

    The laws are not for public good anymore they are strictly political. So I am stocking up on ammo and powder because I believe that no matter what the constitution says, democrats they don’t care. Just like health care, it’s not about what’s best for us, it’s about control of us. Anyone who thinks they are not coming for your firearms, well, you are delusional.

  29. Maybe I am a fatalist but as a follower of Jesus Christ I can tell you this America is doomed.blood will run in the streets.we have a God given right and duty to protect our families get right with Christ and arm up

  30. Joe Biden said (yesterday, I believe), that he is indeed coming for your guns “if you own an assault weapon”, that he will come and take it. Some gun-owners, the Fudds, will say, “Well, I don’t have an AR-15, so it won’t affect me.” Don’t be so sure. For anti-gun people, the beauty of an “assault weapons ban” is that there is no single definition of an “assault weapon”, so absolutely anything can be called an “assault weapon” and then confiscated by the state. Don’t believe me? My state (New Jersey) even bans air guns (BB guns and pellet guns) as “assault weapons” if they have more than one “scary-looking feature,” and if your air gun has a “silencer” on it, you’ll spend a long time in prison.

    A message for Fudds: gun grabbers will start by defining “assault weapons” as anything that looks like an AR-15, but that will only be the start. Then they’ll define all semi-automatics as “assault weapons”, then they’ll define all pump-actions as “assault weapons” , then they’ll define all lever-actions as “assault weapons”, until we’ll become like Australia. We’ll be lucky if they don’t end up defining bolt-action rifles, and all firearms, as “assault weapons.”

    For the Fudds, here’s my politically-incorrect take on the famous Holocaust poem:

    First they came for the AR-15s, but I didn’t speak up because I didn’t own an AR-15.
    Then they came for all other semi-automatics, but I didn’t speak up because I didn’t own a semi-automatic.
    Then they came for the pump-actions, but I didn’t speak up because I didn’t own a pump-action.
    Then they came for the lever-actions, but I didn’t speak up because I didn’t own a lever-action.
    Then they came for the guns which I did own (bolt-actions, break-actions, and revolvers), but there was nobody left to speak up for me, because they’d already lost their rights in the previous gun confiscations!

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