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  1. Keltec sucks! Always has. Unless they’ve improved since the last time one malfunctioned in my hand. Like the first one did and all the others in between. Maybe I was just unlucky.

    • Gadsden,

      KeltTec manufacturing quality and quality control sucks. Their designs range from “interesting, but stupid” to “Wow! Why didn’t anybody else ever think of that???”.

      It they invested 1% as much time on QC, and using SLIGHTLY higher quality parts and subassemblies, I’d be a giant fan. As it is, my Sub2000 carbine (now that I’ve invested about 8 – 10 hours of labor, and close to $1000 bucks, doing a full M-CARBO upgrade) is one of my favorite guns. Fun to shoot, compact, lightweight (even with upgraded parts), reasonably accurate. I sometimes appreciate their designs, I rarely have anything positive to say about their build quality.

      I think the firearms community would be better served if KelTec just became a contract design studio, and let competent manufacturers actually produce the products.

    • Keltec invented the double stack micro 9 ages ago with the P11. The Sig P365 is a massively improved copy.

      We *need* Keltec. They come up with all kinds of great ideas.

      The P15 looks really solid but they don’t have an optic mount for it yet. Otherwise it’s similar to the Hellcat Pro, Mossberg MC2c or Sig P365MacroXL.

    • Hmm, strange, I’ve carried a Kel-Tec P11 as my EDC for the past 18 years. I admit It won’t win any beauty contest, and it isn’t particularly fun to shoot more than a few magazines full during a range session. But I could hide it under a box of cigarettes, it holds 11 rounds (with one in the pipe) and mine goes bang every time I pull the trigger. And with the money I didn’t spend on an overpriced S&W, SIG, H&K, etc, I purchased a lot of range ammo to practice with.

      • Cool to hear the good stuff. Sick of all these loud mouths telling B.S. “war stories” about how terrible some guns are. Most are just jumping on a band wagon to be part of the ignorant mob. Never owned a KelTec but looking to grab a .22 they make, P19. I do however own several Tauruses. Wouldn’t trade them for anything. My GX4 feels better, shoots better and was way cheaper than any other compact 9 I checked out. Some people have no minds of their own, just look at liberals, and they need to feel part of “the pack” or have to buy the one that impresses all the other idiots at the range.

  2. I think they spelled Hasbro Product Development Team incorrectly.
    Isn’t that who makes glued and screwed together Nerf guns and the ones that shoot suction cup darts?

  3. LOL! Had 2 KelTecs. A Sub2000 & a used PF9. Sub2000 was ok but poor QC.After it took me 90 minutes to reassemble my PF9 I got rid of it(for a profit!) My S&W rifle was also “used” but unfired. It’s been perfect🙄

    • I have the same two. My gen 1 Sub 2k runs like a top, the PF9 not so much. I bought the gen 2 Ruger copy of their .380 and love it for when I can’t do anything larger.

    • Have you heard about that new Keltec .357 revolver with the buttery smooth double action trigger pull, zero take up glass-break single action, tight lock-up, bulletproof construction and clean, classic, beautiful design? No? Oh, right, that would be because it is a S&W.

    • I have a few S&W. I have no KelTecs. I’ve held and fired a couple of KT models, and was surprised at how poor the ergonomics were.

      TEHO. I wouldn’t mind having their 30-rd .22 Mag pistol as a range toy, but California and all that jazz…

  4. I’ve never even held a keltec. Never seen one at a store. I own Smiths and can find them wherever guns are sold.

    The K frame Smith is everything you need in a handgun and nothing you don’t need.

    • @jwm

      Love my “L’s” (what a “K” hopes to grow up to be). That said, my K16, K22 and K38 – the Holey Trio – will outshoot every other handgun I own. My son has had “dibs” on them since he was 10 yo…he even licked them to seal the deal (after laughing, I made him thoroughly clean and lightly oil each one).

        • Ruger is fine, Smith is fine, Colt is fine, Taurus/Rossi are getting to be fine, Charter…….works but personally cannot get comfortable with the shape. Not sure I would turn down a gp100/L frame equivalent in any of them if a good deal came up but looking at gp in the 5 inch when budget catches up.

        • SAFEupstate,

          I’ve owned a GP100 8″ revolver for years. Not the best wheelgun I’ve ever shot (that would be my old Colt Python), but MORE than adequate, very reliable, a little heavy, and surprisingly accurate. Ruger is, in many ways, the polar opposite of KelTec – generally pretty basic design, but reliable build quality. Maybe Ruger should acquire KelTec as their design lab????

        • A bullet hit a tree my girlfiend was standing next too last night.
          An argument down the street two blocks away.

        • Possum, you mentioned a local grocery store the other day, and I looked it up on Google street view. That looked like a quiet Kansas town, but it’s apparently more dangerous than it looks.

          At least it’s not all crammed up against each other out there…

    • I carry my P32 when I want deep concealment. It’s as tiny as semi-auto pistol as you can get and has always been reliable for me.

  5. I’ve never seen a Hillary Hole on any Keltec firearm.

    IMHO they have an infinitely better reputation than the Fudd company that snuggled up to the Clintons and stabbed their customer’s RKBA in the back.

    • S&W was Brit owned at the time and also was strong-armed by Andy Cuomo and HUD. Change in ownership took care of the issue for me and S&W continues to actually innovate and produce firearms to fill many niches, IMO.

      Lest everyone forget, it was none other than Ruger who, at about the same time, was pushing for a national 10-round limit on detachable mags and would only send 5 round ones with Mini-14s.

  6. Nikita, S&W complied with some state regulations to continue to sell their handguns to citizens and LE. I guess they could have quit selling to those states, but they do have stockholders to answer to. I think it’s called Capitalism. Should those citizens be denied the opportunity to purchase a firearm because of a fucked up government regulation? Turn it off. I do it all the time with electrical equipment. Still more stand off than a baseball bat. And, no, I don’t like it anymore than you do.

  7. Sheesh, lighten up guys. S&W is not known for being innovative and ‘borrowed’ the 5.7 pistol and the sub 2000 PCC so KT is ribbing them a little. Just some innocent fun.

  8. Wow. This is an epic battle with a good company that makes shitty products vs a company that’s shitty that makes good products. Tough call.

  9. at least smith wesson makes firearms
    that people actually buy
    i dont ever remember seeing a kel tec
    at the range or a gun shop

    • Folks who buy and shoot Keltecs don’t go to your Fudd range or shop. There are plenty of these guns out there.

      You don’t see many cowboys at a snooty English riding club either. That doesn’t mean there aren’t any western riders out there Giles.

    • cases in video

      1:20 Vanderstock v. Garland
      3:33 Koons v. Platkin
      5:04 Reese v. BATFE
      8:16 Oakland Tactical Supply v. Howell Township
      10:32 Baughcum v. Jackson

      and not in this particular video because the date was announced after this video was made:

      SCOTUS: US v. Rahimi – oral argument November 7, 2023

  10. Can I Really Shoot and Unarmed Attacker in Self Defense?

    “Washington Gun Law President, William Kirk, discusses a common myth amongst firearms instructors which is that you will NEVER be able to deploy lethal force if they are unarmed. but is that really the case? So today, we take a look at the laws of self defense, and the laws of lawful lethal force to determine, are there actually incidents in which a person may lawfully use lethal force on an unarmed person? Although there aren’t many bright line rules, we do discuss actual real life situations in which this could be authorized.”

  11. I love my kel tecs but seems there’s always a snag somewhere, be it 22mags not loading in the mag right etc. or taking a magic trick to load, like you have to turn around twice on one foot while your loading it. The sub 2000 is probably the most dependable.

    Lol the problem there tho is I shoot left eyed and just about every other time i pull the trigger i hit the mag release and the mag pops out. Not good LoL. I have to stay conscious of not pressing it

    • Worse, on the sub 2000 they put the gas port on the right. If you’re left handed it creates a miserable shooting experience. Need a full face mask and eye protection to shoot it.

      • It’s direct blowback, there’s no “gas port.” It’s the ejection port, which is on the right on the vast majority of guns. With the Sub 2k the angle is just particularly bad. And, yes, I am left-handed, and yes I own a Sub 2000, and yes, I’ve been hit with debris in the face frequently. I also find the placement of the magazine eject button particularly awkward as my trigger finger wants to lay right on top of it, but it’s far from the only right-hander’s gun that does that for me. It’s not a good left-hander’s gun. I just keep it around for reasons. I rotate the gun slightly clockwise when I shoot to keep the debris out of my face. Gangsta! 🙂

        On the plus side, it’s pretty accurate, light, well-balanced, compact and cycles reliably.

  12. California Admits Real Reason For 28th Amendment – Newsome amends his 28th amendment to make his police state tyranny ‘constitutional’.

  13. Let’s see, S&W has copied the Judge, 5.7 pistol, KSG, PMR30, and Sub2000. Am I missing any? I’m not a fan of KelTec, but it’s pretty obvious S&W has copied them (and several others).


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