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In discussions about SHTF scenarios among my fellow gun-nuts, occasionally the talk turns to hiding your guns from the authorities. Caches, hidden compartments, hideaways and the like. My contention is that if you’re hiding your guns from the authorities, it’s already too late.

In New Orleans, the word is that the authorities came looking for firearms under the auspices of clearing out the city – even the sections not yet flooded. Lots of YouTube videos show national guard and police units knocking on doors with weapons at the ready.  The video included in this post shows cops and NG units from neighboring states going into homes.

Citizens were assaulted and disarmed in a number of well-documented cases, including the confiscation of long arms out on the water as men were recovering their property and evacuating. In one scene, the NOPD or other authorities came all tacticooled-up and flex-cuffed property owners. Ultimately, the cops allowed them to stay in their homes but left them largely defenseless.

I believe in law and order, but I don’t know what I would do if a National Guard trooper showed up and told me I had to leave and that he wanted my guns. In that situation, I would have no initiative even if I were prepared to engage in violence against a 19 year old kid and his buddy who, like I did a bajillion years ago, signed up to defend his country.

Same thing goes for the cops. Court is where I believe disputes about police procedure are to be resolved. And I want to minimize any drama I can until I get my day in court.  If cops enter my home without a warrant, I generally think it’s unwise to resist arrest at that moment, much less rack a shotgun and drawl “git off my property.”

I’m working my ass off to get good elected officials into office, those who believe in limited, constitutional government (check out my friend Ed Martin). This is where peace and liberty lie. Restoring liberty after it’s been wrecked is orders of magnitude more difficult – and bloodier – than keeping it.

How do we make it clear to elected officials and the authorities that disarming citizens is a non-starter? What does it take to make “confiscate guns” an unlawful order in the minds of federalized national guard groups?

Should citizens form armed neighborhood watch groups in the event of an emergency (earthquake is likely to be the worst-case where I live, in St. Louis). Would a squad of MONG be inclined to move along if they came upon five sturdy citizens packing large in front of God and everybody standing post at the end of their street?

What would you say to convince a cop, deputy or soldier to move along?

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  1. That video may be the scariest thing I’ve ever watched in my life. You always hear cops and soldiers say they wouldn’t do those sorts of things, yet there they were. I don’t remember hearing any stories about troops refusing to follow unlwaful orders.

    It may, indeed, already be too late.

  2. I wasn’t able to view Ed’s speech, I’ll try it again later. But I can’t wait to hear all the macho tough talk that will surely follow this post.

    I’ve always thought the New Orleans reports were exaggerated by you guys. I saw the little old lady getting roughed up and a couple other things, but I don’t believe there were all that many cases.

    One of my doubts is that if the abuse was as widespread as you guys say, why were there no gun-rights people doing the stand-your-ground thing? Why weren’t there a number of shootouts with the authorities because one of you guys refused to surrender your gun?

    There would have been. If it had been anything like you say, there would have been many incidents like that.

    • I’m sure those people new the difference between an outright gun ban enacted by Congress and a terrible response to a natural disaster. I wouldn’t have gone down guns blazing over that incident, because I would have known once things calmed down I would still have my gun rights.

    • So you don’t believe it happened much because in the middle of the disaster that was Katrina, there were not very many video recordings of guns being confiscated. Simply recording your daily interaction with police can get you charged with a crime in many locations. Imagine trying to record the police unlawfully removing your guns.

      Years later the authorities were forced to make the confiscated guns available. When this finally happened, we then found out that thousands of guns, in many cases heirlooms and valuable antiques, had been (it appears deliberately) improperly stored and were now rusted beyond recovery.

      I read your posts regularly, and strongly disagree with your positions. It is not surprising to me that law abiding citizens, even in dire circumstances such as this, will submit to authorities. Even when those authorities are doing blatantly illegal things.

      It would just feed your mindset that gun owners are wild eyed radicals to hear about people fighting back against police who have stepped way over the line. Although if they had, they would receive my full support in doing so.

    • mikeb302000 said “why were there no gun-rights people doing the stand-your-ground thing? “ You still don’t understand the “stand your ground law” even after that class I gave at your website, huh?

      The problem was so bad in New Orleans that their legislators passed a law banning the confiscation of firearms. You can find that here

        • Yes, and for some reason the people running the site promote him and have even allowed him to write articles before.

        • jwhite, no I’m not a troll and I think you and Totenglocke know that. I’m just a guy who disagrees with much of what you think. Why is it so hard for some of you to accept that?

          The reason you see me more frequently these last few weeks is because of the upgrade TTAG made, the e-mail notice about subsequent comments. I find this estremely useful especially in following long comment threads that are a couple days old.

      • Sparring with an opponent is my favorite way to sharpen and order my own thoughts. I don’t anticipate changing Mikey’s mind but I am better prepared to answer these sort of lame arguments when I come across someone less close-minded.

        Gun-grabbers are losing in the common culture because of the grinding weakness of their arguments and futility of their policies. However, they have been successful in the past when our team did not engage. We ought not make that same mistake.

    • Mike, “widespread” has nothing to do with it. If one gun owner, ethnic minority, woman, disabled person, gay, Jew or WASP is deprived of a Constitutional right, every American would do right to call it out.

      Unless you think the Constitutional right to keep and bear arms is also exaggerated.

    • Guess you don’t believe there were that many incidents of Jews being burned by Nazis either, Mike, since you weren’t there to witness it.

    • Mike,
      You don’t know anything like that happened as for the first 3 days of that ordeal, it was ‘Martial Law’ though no such term is in Louisiana state law. The entire policing was mismanaged, paperwork was never filed for numerous incidents (police shootings, gun confiscation). So you probably will never know, without a doubt, if any of those events did or did not occur.

    • So now Mike is a gun seizure denier. Of course, it wasn’t like the Deputy Police Chief literally said in a well publicized statement “no one will be allowed to be armed, we will take all the weapons.”… Come on mike!

      The “why weren’t there a bunch of shootouts then?” excuse is probably the worst I’ve ever heard. No matter how macho someone might act on the internet, few people want to go toe to toe with cops or soldiers in a shootout, even if it means getting your rights trampled on and your property seized. I certainly don’t. They’ve got body armor, they’ve probably got you outnumbered, and chances are they’ve got bigger guns too (with lots more ammo!).

      Plus once they know you’re resisting violently, they’re calling for backup, LOTS of it. They aren’t going to take a step back and go “oh, maybe it’s wrong to take these guns….”. It’s a battle that can’t be won, and any halfway sensible person knows it.

      I’d give up any guns that they could find, and hope they didn’t find them all.

    • Just how many illegal seizures of firearms are you willing to tolerate, Mike? Three? Ten? One Hundred?

      At what point are you alarmed? At what point will you say “enough”? I think you need to answer that question, at least for yourself. Do you only care about the rights you prefer to exercise?

      • At what point do we shoot back? I think it’s terrible that the government was seizing weapons but do you really think they’re going to announce “We’re going to come take your guns then commit genocide”? No, they’ll do exactly what they did here. Take guns from law abiding people who think “I’ll fight this battle in court later” but every once in a while that was your battle. That was your chance to fight back. Shoot, shovel, and shut up. If they’re acting like criminals, treat them like criminals.

    • Why weren’t there a number of shootouts with the authorities because one of you guys refused to surrender your gun?

      There would have been. If it had been anything like you say, there would have been many incidents like that.

      Once again you shine through with that special MikeB logic. “I know you better than you know yourselves. No one acted as I know you would have in a situation like that, therefore, that situation did not occur.” Perfect example of the hoplophobic mindset. “We know better. You can’t be trusted.”

    • Of course he thinks it’s all exaggerated; to think otherwise wouldn’t promote his sick agenda.

      Come on, do you honestly think scumbag mike or any anti is interested in the truth of anything?

    • Yeah, so some little old lady get the shit kicked out of her. She should have done what she was told in the first place and she wouldn’t have been there. The natural rights of old people aren’t as important as others. After all “some animals are more equal than others.”
      It’s not to late you just need to have an off site location for you stash of weapons and say they were stolen in a burglary, kick in your door if need be.

  3. When public defenders are prepared to illegally engage in violence against the citizenry, are they really still our countrymen? Are they still worthy of our respect or do become worthy of our copper-jacketed lead?

    • A soldier is supposed to disobey an illegal order, but that’s harder than it sounds. What if you are the lone squad member dissenting? Your college educated Lieutenant who may have all the fashionable views one picks up in school asks you if you are a constitutional scholar now. Your buddies, who are hot and late for chow start giving you shit because you are holding up the mission. Sarge starts eating your ass out in front of your friends. How many 19 year old patriots are we willing to hope for?

      The place to handle this is long before the NG shows up. When they arrive, it needs to be unthinkable to their commanders to confiscate guns from law-abiding citizens.

      • “A soldier is supposed to disobey an illegal order, but that’s harder than it sounds”
        Its called manning up, i’ve been fired from all my white collar jobs for refusing to do things I didnt agree with. This is something most people in the military are incapable of doing as demonstrated so many times in history. They are trained by the government to act as dogs, to act without thought, without question, without remorse.

        “it needs to be unthinkable to their commanders to confiscate guns from law-abiding citizens.”
        But unfortunately its not, i’m sure you’ve seen enough service members on here say that they wished they knew where I lived and would violently oppress me for my political views.

        • I agree but have one correction. This is something most people in general are incapable of doing. Doing the right thing is often hard. It’s what separates cowards from heroes.

          • There is a time and a place for everything. I don’t think it’s a coward/hero absolute. Your brain is (usually) your best weapon, getting wasted when the odds aren’t right may not be the best way to resist. Saying that, I respect the hell out of the defenders of the Alamo, and the passengers of Flite 93.

  4. Again, the “mainstream” media doesn’t even question that “jackwipe” NOPD officer at the podium saying that all guns would be confiscated, because that just makes sense to them (the mainstream media). Now if this same NOPD announced the NOPD was suspending the First Amendment due to a natural disaster, I doubt the mainstream media would be so silent!

  5. I think the lack of flying bullets says more about the citizens than the police. Except for citizens helping themselves to looting. And the police videotaped looting with them.
    A small incident of confiscation is not going to get a response. A larger movement would result in a different action, especially if a state balks and ATF trumps the tenth amendment.
    MikeB302000 can cheer the stormtroopers on, they’ll be back for him with an empty van eventually.

    • Good heavens, Mike. Are you utterly unfamiliar with Martin Niemöller? I think the “first they came for” formulation can be overused, his warning from history is not to be ignored or trivialized, either.

      I do not think you are seriously engaging the concerns we are expressing.

      • Tim, gun haters NEVER take the concerns of others seriously. Ridicule and insults are all they’ve got.

  6. I never thought I would see the 3rd Amendment violated in my lifetime, but according to that news report, it was.

  7. The video makes me angry. It evoked images of Nazi stormtroopers evicting Jews from the Warsaw ghettos.

  8. Police are more likely to jack up “Law abiding” citizens, criminals are more likely to shoot at them. Honest people in New Orleans, or, anywhere else, are not likely to shoot at Police, or soldiers, in any case. “Gun Rights” people are not wild eyed idiots, altho wild eyed idiots do own firearms, as well as automobiles, sharp objects, etc. Mike 302000, you have the right to say your piece, you have the right to not own weapons for any reason. I have, so far, the right to own weapons, a firearm in particular. What I do not have is the right to use any weapon irresponsibly. I think most, if not all owners of firearms understand that.

    • C’mon, man, get real.

      “I think most, if not all owners of firearms understand that.”

      You know what Marlo said, right. “You want it to be one way, but it’s the other way.”

      • Get real, Mike. If most owners did NOT understand that, then the blood in the streets scenarios that you gun haters like to imagine would be plastered all over the news, don’t you think?

        The simple fact remains that the VAST MAJORITY of law-abiding gun owners did NOT hurt or kill anyone today with their firearms.

        • Look at how many people legally own guns in the USA, if the owners were as bad as the Antis make us to be, then half the population should be dead by now.

  9. Every person must determine their own individual line in the sand. That said, folks should realize that appealing to the government to address abuses that the government perpetrated is futile. The politicians, the courts, the police, those NG soldiers who were “following orders” are not on our side. The system is designed to benefit the power brokers, not the people. Participation simply gives us the feeling that we still have a voice, that we’re making a difference. However, when democracy gives way to tyranny, a man with a rifle (and the Will to use it) still gets a vote.

  10. The answer to your question, where do you draw the line, isn’t as simple as talking about a singular act. You need to consider the totality of the circumstances. Is gun confiscation like this going on nationwide or is it a merely local phenomena. If it’s local, just keep a pistol or two and enough ammunition to defend yourself and sue the daylights out of the city when things calm down. If it’s national, that’s more of an alarming situation that has a higher risk of danger. If it’s coupled with forced movement of people (e.g. internment of Japanese Americans, widespread rendition of Americans, or NDAA detentions) that is where you need to adopt a hold the line approach and begin to work with like minded people around you.

  11. Despite the large current number that is ever increasing of law abiding American citizens legally owning guns, when government wants to overtly violate any of our rights and liberties they will.

    Just to consider as another example; public schools and teachers are increasingly under pressure and new government rules what the new politically-correct values are that they can (and must) teach children and what traditional values they can no longer advocate. Retaliation comes in the form of cutting back government financial aid, lawsuits, and firings. I sometimes wonder at what point government will step-in and inform private religious schools that they can no longer instruct ‘vulnerable’ children about certain subjects pertaining to ethics and traditional values since they will be labeled by PC government as teaching children ‘hate and bigotry’.

    In the event of a social collapse or all-out insurrection civil-war those with guns will have an edge. However, short of that I see government continuing to attempt moving society to an ever increasing police-nanny corporatist (fascist) state.

  12. I didn’t write that, Robert. Can it be removed please?

    Maybe the asshole who’s IP address is connected with that comment should be (banned) warned.

    • I’ve IDed the commentator who used your handle. He’s banned.

      I’ve also removed comments addressing that remark.

      I apologize to you and want to point out that Mikeb302000 did NOT make any comment about passivity in the face of sexual violence.

      • I’m sure I’ll get flack for asking, but how do we know Mike didn’t just go to the local library or log on via a friends system to post that to try and get people to feel sympathetic towards him and legitimize all the absurd things he posts on a regular basis? I’ve seen people do it plenty of times on other forums.

    • Mike, something I can agree with, banning the person who posted that comment would be good. My apologies as well for jumping to condemn.

  13. I am not a separatist, I am not an extremist , not an anarchist but I will say this: If SHTF, I mean really SHTF New Orleans style or worse it comes down to one age old saying to me “I’ll give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands!”

    If things are really bad, beyond a Katrina turning over your only real means of defense mine as well be suicide. At a bare minimum it eliminates or atleast severely derails your ability to hunt for your own food, defend your family and protect your property.

    To the writer of this article, you say you are in St. Louis so I imagine you can understand how many times worse than Katrina St. Louis could become if the New Madrid fault let go like it did many times back in the 1800’s. It would be the San Francisco earth quake but much worse in terms of fatalities and the social disorder would make the L.A. Riots look like a picnic on the prairie.

    • I do live in St. Louis, and the New Madrid cutting loose is the disaster I have in mind.That said, we Midwesterners – even the city folk – are fairly level headed.

      Mayor Slay on his worst possible drunken bender is orders of magnitude more sensible than Mayor “School Bus” Nagin.

      • If that fault lets go and things really hit the fan I am retreating to rural Wisconsin; I figure if they start going door to door all the way up and out there we are really F’d at that point.

      • Dirk,

        What then, can we do to make it clear that as a people we will not find this acceptable – assuming we find it unacceptable.

  14. In my time in the military, I worked around a LOT of people who would have no issues with being ordered to confiscate a citizen’s firearms. Too many NCOs ive met would be delighted with such an order. Even the members who aren’t so hot about breaking the law will obey a confiscation order from above to feed their kids and stay out of military jail, and I imagine its the same for the police.

    The moral of the story for Katrina -and any other emergency on that level-is that gun owners must get their weapons collection out of dodge city ASAP before the government returns to restore order. If the situation is so bad that open lawlessness is taking place the police & military authorities will NOT care about infringing on civil rights. Yes many places have laws stating it is illegal to seize a citizens arms during the state of emergency, but Ray Nagin didn’t give one spit about the Law of the Land when he ordered all weapons confiscated…and the authorities in the next disaster won’t care either. Theyll seize first and file a rebuttal to your lawsuit later.

  15. What would you say to convince a cop, deputy or soldier to move along?

    Unless I had the bad guys, and in this instance they are most certainly the bad guys, outnumbered by about 3-1, and there was very little chance of them coming back with ten times as many bad guys, not a damn thing. The days of being able to stand up to government officers in a manner that does not end with helicopters and dead citizens is pretty much well and gone. In the remaining enclaves of sanity, said government officers are unlikely to comply with such a request anyway. Everywhere else, it’s helicopters and armored vehicles time, because you dared to disrespect their authori-tay.

    My preferred method of dealing with natural disasters is as follows:

    1) Insure everything you can live with losing, and expect to lose it. Won’t make much difference whether it’s water, fire or looters that take it.

    2) Secure/hide/store anything you can’t live with losing well in advance, or have provisions to do so very quickly.

    3) When it hits the fan, leave.

    The hands-down most successful method for dealing with this sort of thing is to simply not be there. Have a few places to go and a plan to get there, and take your firearms with you.

  16. Do what the people of Idaho have done, through their 81% conservative Republican state legislature. Pass the following law [State Disaster Preparedness Act, Idaho Statutes 46-1008(7)]:

    “During the continuance of any state of disaster emergency, neither the governor nor any agency of any governmental entity or political subdivision of the state shall impose restrictions on the lawful possession, transfer, sale, transport, storage, display or use of firearms or ammunition.”

    I would also suggest NOT answering the door when the authorities knock, during an emergency, and have your front door secured with a steel security door. If it looks as if no one is home, the police/NG will be a BIT more reluctant to commit a forced entry. You might even want to get some kind of hazmat warning tape (“BIOLOGICAL CONTAMINATION” is one of my favorites) and drape it conspicuously over your entry point – door, driveway gates, etc.

    • That all sounds good on paper but when the local PD flees and the national guard are ordered by some Pentagon paper pusher to confiscate every firearm they find do you really think a state law will stop them? Yeah you might win in the long run but bottom line sight on scene you are out your second amendment rights.

  17. the thing with saying you wouldn’t draw on the cops or the national guard is that you then can’t say guns or gunrights would have helped the jews in 1930’s germany avoid the holocaust which is a favorite refrain of gun nuts.

    • Gabba – I think you swerved into a future topic. At what point should Jewish victims of Nazi atrocities have started fighting back?

      • idk. but certainly the tactic of opposing disarmament by first letting it happen and then complaining certainly would not have worked. i should add that this is irrespective of whether or not there had been an enumerated right to bear arms. if they had had guns, and the equivalent of the 2nd ammendment but they lacked the resolve to shoot their cops in the face, they would have been gassed just the same. on the other hand if they had had guns, and not had a 2nd ammendment but were willing to resist being disarmed then they might have fared better. so the argument that the 2nd ammendment protects liberty is false. without the willingness to be the “bad guy” and shoot a pig in the face the 2nd ammendment is no more exalted than the right to put a fart can muffler on your integra and annoy the crap out of your neighbors.

      • but certainly the tactic of opposing disarmament by first letting it happen and then complaining certainly would not have worked.

        +1 f’ing thousand

  18. “… a 19 year old kid and his buddy who, like I did a bajillion years ago, signed up to defend his country.”

    What kind of a soldier, guardsman, or police officer confiscates the legally owned firearms of law-abiding citizens?

    • What kind of a soldier, guardsman, or police officer confiscates the legally owned firearms of law-abiding citizens?

      I was a kid once.

      I think I would have at least had a sense that confiscating firearms was wrong. It would be arrogant of me to think I would have been able to successfully resist my Company Commander, Platoon Leader, Platoon Sergeant and Squad Leaders and be the only guy refusing the order.

      To do that you would have to be a well respected member in the unit with enough force of personality to convince enough of your team – or team leaders – to rethink the order.

      I hope I would have been that stand up, but it is a tall order. A very tall order. And even if I was that one guy, they would have just sent me back to clean the shitter and the rest would be out stomping on the constitution.

  19. “I believe in law and order, but I don’t know what I would do if a National Guard trooper showed up and told me I had to leave and that he wanted my guns.”

    Kill, kill, kill – that’s what.

  20. Direct house to house confiscation? What a joke. Gun privileges benefit the state immensely. We can have our beer and monkeyball and boomsticks and not threaten it. Occasionally a drunkard and/or pig will shoot itself. A few gang members might off each eachother. Hell, some demure old granny might eviscerate a burglar with buckshot. This is all business as usual. The low simmer that never reaches a boil.

    If the State really considers you a threat a raid is the last resort. You might get picked up one day and take a vacation in Cuba. Of course, they’ll call you a “terrorist” first. Probably by linking you to evil Muslims, Ray-zists, Anarchists, and so forth. With the National Defense Authorization Act it will happen more. If you belong to a social club Uncle Samuel Ben Samuel might hit you with RICO charges to boot.

    As for natural disasters like Katrina, just leave! If you can’t leave, hide. Cover your windows and lay low. If someone breaks in handle it discreetly.

  21. I know a former national gaurdsmen that’s was in new Orleans after the hurricane. It was as bad as you think it was. They disarmed anyone they could find,and even engaged a few criminals hole up in hospitals that were attempting to steal drugs. It WAS as bad as it sounds and was a pretty big screw upthat should never happen again.

  22. Lots of good stuff here guys.
    With the laws that have been passed taking away our rights as americans with the utterance of the word “terrorist” thanks to the patriot act and the NDAA.

    Now that the FEMA camps have been activated, staffed, and fully ready, anyone who gets in the way will disappear into one of their walk-in ovens.

    There is no reason not to shoot first and ask no questions because once they disarm you they will ship to your local FEMA camp (there are 800 camps all over the USA right now) for processing.

    With the local law forces getting frontline military hardware up to and including main battle tanks, they are more than ready to provide the back-up to Obamma’s
    TSA police-force. Only thing left is for him to get them all pretty brown-shirts with some jackboots.

    They can have my weapons when I run out of ammo, not before!

    • There is no reason not to shoot first and ask no questions because once they disarm you they will ship to your local FEMA camp (there are 800 camps all over the USA right now) for processing.

      I am not quite ready to get my tinfoil hat just yet. Let’s work to keep this from happening.

      • He’s right. They won’t be coming for the guns, they will be coming for the OWNERS. A NorthCom Lt. Col told Steve Quayle as much, in no uncertain terms. They already have most owners GPSed. There will not be an option, i.e. surrender your guns or be interned. They will just collect you and turn your house upside down. Then they will move on to the next.

        Which means that you will have two options: Go like a lamb to slaughter, or die fighting.

  23. I can see how this would go…
    If I was the homeowner:
    Soldier – *knock knock* “Yes, hello sir we are here to confinscate any weapons you may have for the general safety.”
    Me – *wipes sleepey eyes* “Hugh, wuh? Um…” *sips coffee, glares* “May I see your orders or warrant?”
    S – “Sir we do not have a copy of our orders… We will still need to confinscate any weapons that you may have and have you evacuate the city”
    M – *yawns and stretches, scratches balls* “Oh, well do you have the eviction notice then?”
    S – “No, we don’t have any paperwork on our person. We do have these guns and the backing of the National Guard and authority of the state.”
    M – “Oh, well let me just check something” *grabs copy of the constitution, fiddles glasses* “Ok, so it says right here that you cant do that.”
    S – “Sir, what are you talking about?”
    M – *ahem* “The right to keep and bear arms shall no-”
    S – “Sir, I am well aware of what it says, but in this situation it does not apply, so I will need-”
    M – “Does not apply?”
    S – “Yes sir.”
    M – “Oh ok, I secede then. Get off my property before I call the UN.”
    S – *puzzled look*
    M – *slams door* “DONT STEP ON ANY MINES ON YOUR WAY OUT!”

    As the soldier:
    SGT – “Ok, we are to confiscate all these weapons!”
    Me – “Excuse me SergeanT, I do not think we have the authority to do that.”
    SGT – “WHAT!? SPECIALIST GET AT PARADE REST! AND WHAT?!” *platoon shrinks away*
    Me – Bla bla bla, second amendment, bla bla bla unlawful order. *shot for insubordination, achieves martyrdom*

    Someone needs to die for causes, but nobody ever wants to.

  24. The time to get organized is BEFORE the earthquake/hurricane/tornado etc. Don’t wait to let them pick you off one by one as they go door to door confiscating guns. At that point you’re outgunned and outnumbered. The neighborhood needs to be organized, to defend against both looters and the gun grabbers.

  25. Someone (with a badge) knocks on the door and demands my guns, I’d give them over. Not going to win in the face of overwhelming firepower. With that said, why should they believe I would have any? It’d take a while to get the 4473’s to find what I have. Makes me wonder: in such a situation, would the local gun shops lock up their books–and hole themselves up, making those records more or less unavailable? I suppose it wouldn’t matter, they could just go door-to-door.

    Also: if they demand such things, would I be wrong if it was up to them to find them themselves? What if I gave them a token piece or two? I guess it’d be bad if enough if they took my carry piece; but I’m not entirely sure that I’m obligated to explain where all of them are. Of course, I did sell a bunch off, FTF, all legal of course…

    • They don’t need 4473s to identify gun owners, they already have NCIS. You think that data is actually deleted?

      Sheeeeyeah. Right.

  26. I’m afraid my solution for gun confiscating agents is probably a little too radioactive for TTAG.

  27. Laugh if you wish, but I and others do have guns cached, stashed and dispersed. If they come and confiscate I will just retrieve another once they leave. If they come again – then “rinse and repeat”. At some point the shooting will likely start. Better to die on my feet than live on my knees.

    • Nobody’s laughing, pardner. In a FEMA emergency, perhaps your precautions might prove useful. But if marital law is declared nationally, we will be declared national security risks, NorthCom will be mobilized, and they will be coming for US, not for the weapons. The guns can’t shoot themselves, so we will be removed instead.

      Horrifying, but there it is.

  28. So much fail.

    If any federal agency enters your home with neither permission nor warrant, “law and order” has already broken down. Same goes for the police.

    If you’re prepared to meekly submit to one branch/department hoping that an appeal to another branch/department of the same government will make you whole, you might as well sell all your guns right now and find another hobby. And yes, I mean ‘hobby’: if you’re prepared to submit meekly to violation of several enumerated Rights, then you’re simply not serious about the Second Amendment.

  29. Welcome to the fourth Reich, Hitler said the Reich would last 1000 years. It is in America under Der Führer Saddam Hussein Obama

  30. it doesnt matter if they see the books or not on who has guns and who doesnt.. the drones can pick up guns from the sky and record exactly where they are.. they can see in every crack and crevas in your home and pick up every piece of metal there is… you cannot hide your guns in your home without them seeing them… to be honest I dont know how we could ever keep them from finding our guns.. unless you hide them under some other form of metal so the drones cant detect them.. I see a revolution in the near future.. we will have to fight and win…thats the only way to save america..the 2nd amendment is to fight the gov ..our founding fathers knew this day would come..and it is now…fight or become slaves or die..that is our choices..

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