JoshinGA writes:
Im in the market for a new full size polymer gun, probably in a 9mm. What would you recommend for a polymer duty gun? Thanks.
Funny you should ask, I was planning on doing an article on this very topic. Which is why I rang up the manufacturers of the top polymer framed handguns in the United States and asked them all to send me one. So, which is best? . . .
It depends. I know, its a sucky answer. Shut up and let me explain.
It seems like each polymer handgun works best in a different situation. Almost like they were in some sort of cabal, where each manufacturer claimed dominion over a designated section of the market. Thanks to that fact, while it’s possible to point to a single handgun for each use case, finding one that fits all of the categories is rather difficult. So let’s go one by one and maybe I can figure out an answer while I write this up.
Home Defense
For a home defense gun, you’re looking for reliability, capacity, and the ability to add a flashlight. You want something you can plunk on the nightstand or in a easy to access safe, and not necessarily something that’s easy to tote and conceal. So as much as I hate to suggest it, a Glock 17 is the gun to own.
Anyone who knows me knows that I am definitely not a Glock fanboy. I just plain don’t like the way they look and feel. But even I have to admit that when you want a home defense gun, the G17 is about as perfect as it gets.
The Glock 17 was designed from day one to be a duty gun, not a concealed carry gun. The 17 is slightly larger than the 19, which allows a few more rounds to be squeezed into the magazine. And the accessory rail under the barrel means that you can bolt a flashlight on there without a problem (because seeing what you’re shooting at is always a good idea).
Beyond the physical features, the fact of the matter is that Glocks simply do not break. I’ve seen them subjected to everything from thousands of rounds of torture testing to massive drops to even being baked into various pastries and they still work. Reliability is kinda important when that robber kicks in your door, so the Glock line definitely earns some points thanks to its reputation and track record.
Competition Shooting
The same characteristics that make a good home defense gun don’t necessarily make a good competition gun. For example, while the Glock trigger is reliable, its not something that I would use for competition shooting. What would I use, you ask? The Smith & Wesson M&P9.
Big caveat here — I haven’t had the chance to shoot the new FNS-9 Competition Longslide which looks to be worthy of consideration here. And even if I had, recommending it would be a conflict of interest. So, among the handguns I’ve reviewed so far, the S&W M&P9 is the tops.
For me, I’ve found that S&W’s offering not only fits my hand the best, but also shoots the straightest and quickest. And while the factory trigger is pretty good out of the box, thanks to the guys at Apex tactical swapping it out for a much better one, it’s an absolute breeze. So you have an excellent trigger, an accurate gun, and one that looks rather awesome to boot.
Iain Harrison disagrees. According to Iain, the best competition handgun is the Springfield XD. I can see where he’s coming from, but to me the trigger is the dealbreaker on that one.
Concealed Carry
RF is probably expecting to see a picture of his much loved Caracal to pop up here. Nope, not gonna happen. Because while it’s a nice handgun, the fact that his has been out of action for over 100 days due to a design defect is too prejudicial to ignore. No, for this category, we’re going with the S&W M&P Shield.
I was actually about to give this one to the Glock 19, but the width of that double stacked magazine (and thus, the gun) threw it out of contention. Instead, the sleek and slim M&P Shield is my recommendation. It just fits my hand better than any of the other “tiny niney” handguns out there, including the Beretta Nano or whatever that Kahr was that Destinee reviewed for us. Nothing felt as good in the hand – or on the waistband – as the Shield.
The only issue I had with this gun was accuracy. The gun itself is accurate, but in my monster paws, I only really get a really good grouping under 10 yards. It’s still “minute of bad guy” out to 25 yards, but not quite as accurate as some of the others for me. Then again, I have that exact same problem with any of the compact 9mm guns. Which is why I stick to my 1911.
Overall Winner
Now that I have had some time to think it through as I write, I actually might have found a winner. While I paused here for a second, I asked myself “if I could only have one handgun, what would it be?” And to my immense surprise, it’s a Glock 19.
The Glock 19 is one of the most popular firearms in the United States, and for good reason. It’s reliable, rugged and there are spare parts behind every blade of grass. Magazines are available in a dizzying variety, thanks to the fact that the gun not only takes its own 15-round mags but also the G17’s 17-rounders, not to mention the 33-rounders that are available. And as for the size, it’s small enough to fit in my (rather large) pocket, yet large enough to be comfortable firing.
And that’s the reason I bought one — it doesn’t do anything “the best” over the other guns mentioned, but it does everything really well. Combined with the availability of magazines and the reliability of the gun, it’s the clear choice for my bailout bag. Which is where it sits as we speak . . . ready if I ever need it.
[Email your firearms-related questions to “Ask Foghorn” via [email protected]. Click here to browse previous posts]
I carried a Glock on duty for years until my department mandated the M&P. Initially our department had a LOT of issues with the M&P which Smith & Wesson have since worked out. However, my biggest issue with the M&P is the lack of a trigger reset you can feel. In a Glock it is very pronounced which means I don’t have to waist trigger slack to squeeze off another round which equates to faster repetitions and a much tighter shot group. I just learned yesterday though that Smith is going to adjust their triggers to give them a pronounced reset in their new models. I guess I wasn’t the only one who hated the slack….
I own multiple glock and M&Ps, im probably more accurate with my glocks but i enjoy shooting the m&p more. also if you get a recently manufactured(within the last yr or so) m&p it now has a very nice reset.
He knows the criminal safe zones gots to go, yet they are popular with his crowd. So, what is the white mans self defense weapon? why by golly its the AR & the black mans? mostly 38 spec revolver, 9mm making inroads I’ve read./// So turn in those AR’s ladies & gentleman, it’s for the kids on aircraft & riding on trains, Randy
So Robert, how would marijuana use for into our gun laws? Do you feel users should be allowed to keep and bear arms?
The best handgun…. the one you shoot the best….. the one that fits your hand the best…. the one that allows you to reach all of the controls.
Availability of magazines?! WHERE??? 😉
I really like my Sig SP2022 in 9. Fits me better than the Glock, shoots great, hasnt given me any issues (granted I’ve only been shooting it for 6 months or so), and works for CC during the winter (too large for me for the hot summers out here).
Looking at a M&P shield for summer carry.
as a bonus, I can still buy 15 round magazines for it. Local gun store gets them in sporadically (though I have enough now).
+1
The SP2022 is the only (similar to the above weapons) black non-1911 pistol I have experience with but I like it. The safety is between the operator’s ears, I like the decocking feature along with the DA/SA. Similar but smaller that I have lusted after is the Sig P239 in 9mm. Better for concealed carry, fewer rounds in the magazine compromise….
you can never have enough mags!
What about cz duty p 07 for conceal and competition ?
The P-07 is an excellent gun! You can’t beat CZ reliability, ergos, or accuracy. I use an SP-01 for competition, but it isn’t polymer so doesn’t count here, and I have a P-07 as well. Absolutely amazing “duty size” gun, similar in size to a G19. They are releasing a truly full size version, the P-09, pretty soon. The P-07 has a hammer and is DA/SA, so cannot really be compared to a Glock or M&P. I prefer the hammer and have CZ’s that are single-action-only and CZ’s that are DA/SA and like both. I like the slide profile, the way they feel in your hand, the low bore axis, and the extreme reliability and accuracy. I shoot Glocks very well, but do not like how they look from behind and they do not fit in the hand or point as naturally — no where near a CZ here for me.
Have to agree with your overall winner. The G19’s the jack of all trades.
Well Done!
See, the USA has no mental health issues!
exactly, suicide rate among active duty military @ 22/day… prob just boredom and need for attention
I hate to love the Glock myself, but for a defensive handgun, whether concealed or open carry, you can’t do better than the Glock 26 or 17. It is reliable, easy to shoot accurately, and as easy to operate as it gets.
As for fitting a light, or laser or other gadget to a defensive handgun, I never recommend it. In my never-humble-opinion, it is bad mojo to add extra functions to a deadly weapon, especially when you have to muzzle anything you want to see, in the case of a flashlight.
Here is another place the manifesto is posted. Unedited…
http://www.crimefilenews.com/2013/02/fired-lapd-officer-obama-lover-and.html
Ahhh, the best way to start an argument… which gun is best for (blank)… I’d like to submit the Walther PPQ as well for a home defense gun, no safety, 3.5-4lb trigger pull and a rail so all you have to do is point and shoot. For concealed carry recommendation, over time I’ve drifted to the Sig p938, not a lot of gripping surface but a very 1911 feel to a very small pocket pistol (my other one is a XDS but that hasn’t come out in 9 yet) and in 9mm so far I’ve owned and sold theM&P shield, the M&P compact, the ruger LC9. If I had to use one of thosethe M&P compact was my other favorite. But having said all of that a gun is a personal preference… try some out before buying one…
Ruger SR9C gets no love, despite being a super-slim double-stack with great ergonomics, low recoil, dang good accuracy and a pic rail. What more could you ask for? Oh, and did I mention I never had a single malfunction in over 1,000 rounds shooting all the cheapest crap I could find?
Yeah, I’ve got the SR9, and like it quite a lot. I’m not a professional shooter, though.
I was impressed the time I went to the range and there was a guy at the line with 6 different 9mm pistols. He WAS a pro, or at least a competitive shooter who shoots a lot, and he said the SR9 was his second favorite behind his insanely expensive something-or-other. Kahr maybe? I can’t remember.
And you can extend the grip with a full-size magazine (which it comes with), essentially making it a compact and standard size pistol in one. The M&P Shield also has an extended mag, but it’s not as well-designed as the SR9c (or so I’ve heard). I’ve been debating between the two recently, but I have quite a bit of time before either will have any stock available.
Well over 1k through mine with no failures of any kind. SR9 FTW.
Greetings!!!!!!
I think that I would like a S&W Shield. But I do need to handle one before I buy. My LGS has not seen a S&W Shield since June of 2012. And people say that guns are easy to get in the US !
Recent Brownells Email:
Dear Folks,
We want to thank everyone for your patience with us. Thanks especially to those of you who told us orders were being delivered “out of cycle.” We’ve been in business an awfully long time and are proud of our reputation for great service, so we had to find out what was going on.
And we found the problem. Simple really. About 15 years ago we put in place system logic prioritizing a few back orders ahead of others. It was a rare situation, but necessary at the time and under normal market conditions back then, those reasons made sense.
Then the world changed, and back orders ballooned into the thousands – literally – and our system and the vendor’s ability to keep up just broke that logic. About 300 orders were moved to the head of the line under the old system logic, and had their orders shipped ahead of where they should have been in line. It moved all the rest of you back about 300 places in line – which, rightfully so, caused an uproar.
When we found the problem, we immediately disabled this logic, truly resuming our first in first out policy. The real problem is that demand is far greater than any factory’s ability to quickly catch up.
The good news is we have cured the broken system logic; thanks for telling us. We are shipping in order received, and handling your orders the way we have always tried to – honestly, fairly, and with everything right on top of the table.
Best,
Frank & Pete Brownell
Just makes me wonder what there policy has been all these years on back orders:
Fill large orders first…
or
Fill new orders first since the people already waiting will never know.
wtf dont cops have AR15 rifles or shotguns in their cars? this is more like statist pigs whining for more gun control because they cant effectively do their jobs
Well, in all fairness to obama & the cartell weapons, he did say he was going to help minority small business, Randy
Lol, helping small business, haha!
Also, to the dude in the pic, welcome!!!
So… are the cops’ bullets meeting the bad guys’ bullet mid air and losing an arm wrestling match? Because that seemed to be what they were saying by “outgunned.” At the risk of going Freudian here, size doesn’t matter. It’s how you use it. I’d rather take a .22 against a poorly aimed bad guy with a Desert Eagle.
They are likely looking at moving from the 9m to the .40 cal. Not surprising but there offerers accuracy will go down since the .40 has a higher recoil. Nothing that can’t be fix by training but cop already hit bystander more then the criminals do.
Thanks
Robert
Translation: WAHHH! GIVE US MORE MONEY!
**** ’em.
Living in CA. so I’m limited to 10 rounds. So taking capacity out of the equation does the Glock still win? Hmmmmm
Keep on fighting those laws – none of them are worth losing your life over. In the meantime, .45 ACP or 10 mm are sweet for capacity limited situations.
When capacity is equal, it is easy to pick the gun that is reliable and shoots the best for you–no matter whose brand it is. Personally, I prefer the XD to the Glock and picked it for my first handgun purchase. I didn’t like the ways Glocks felt when fired, and HKs, which were the cat’s meow, were out of my price range. I have never had a failure with the XD, and taught both of my kids to shoot with it, again without failures. My second handgun was a Kimber, which took about a thousand rounds before it stopped jamming, and it is still ammo sensitive.
The best way to increase the amount of available firepower you have on your side is to increase your numbers. Allies can cover more ground/angles, and they can stay in the fight if you’re incapacitated. The choice of waiting for backup is a luxury often available to police but almost never to civilian self-defenders. How about we dispense with some of those APCs and other gee-whize Drug War gadgetry and increase the amount of backup available?
I’ve never understood the outgunned argument between cops and criminals. Even if a criminal has a semi-auto rifle the cop has (in most cases) way better training. Wouldn’t better gun control (breathing, targeting, muscle memory, weapon familiarity) place a trained officer in a better position over the video referenced street thug with a “gat” who probably has limited experience other than flashing it at other idiots. To me outgunned is when one side physically has more shooters than the other, or a tank rolls up on your position. That said if a one caliber is preferred over another then go with what you are comfortable with.
“St. Louis Cops: Criminals Have Us Outgunned”
Modern society’s definition and celebration of freedom and liberty has resulted in the collapse of the traditional family, once close-knit traditional religious and ethnic groups, and neighborhoods where people don’t care or know each other. I’ve written here before that about 85% of the men in prison for a 2nd violent offense grew up without a father. The underlying problem isn’t the guns. The underlying problem is modern social values and the modern governments that support it ensuring the ever weakening need of the people to depend on more government.
+1. For years TV sitcoms and movies have been portraying “family time” as boring and un-cool, with parents shown as out of touch with reality or behind the times. The father’s role has especially been degraded to the point that dads are seen as ignorant, socially awkward control freaks. As dangerous as the anti-gun lobby is, the much quieter anti-father lobby may be more of a root cause.
WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!
I used to not care too much for Glocks myself, but fired a Glock 19 many years ago and never looked back.
It’s kind of like an AK-47, simply design, rugged, reliable, and goes bang everytime you pull the trigger. You can’t go wrong with a Glock 19!
What a nice way to try to bully the taxpayers into footing the bill for a caliber change! .357sig isn’t going to make much of a difference over a good 9mm load. Of course, this is the agency that dropped the 870 in favor of the Beretta Storm Carbine because officers were having a problem qualifying with the shotgun.
They need to up their training standards rather than looking for hardware to fix a software problem.
If you’ve got access to ARs and some decent bolt guns in .308, I have a hard time thinking you are, as an organization, outgunned. I mean, if you’re restricted to your sidearm, I guess I’d buy it–a bad guy with a rifle and/or body armor would have a huge advantage over you.
But they’re not restricted to side arms–at least no PD I’ve ever seen was.
Glocks and me are like oil and water in that we don’t mix. I would go with the Ruger SR9 or a CZ for a semi-auto handgun.
Glocks “being baked into various pastries”
That would explain the spike in FFL applications for local donuts shops.
Only the police should have firearms. Sarcasm off.
Citizens being able to outgun government employees means we live in a free society. When the government can outgun the citizens it means we live in a tyranny.
So a full-capacity 9mm with a good defensive hollow-point bullet just won’t do the job anymore, eh? They must’ve joined the hunt for that crazed cop in California and realized they need some of that “cop-killer” stuff.
At 49 seconds in the video, the talking head says the police are looking for “lighter and more powerful handguns that shoot better ammunition” while panning across a row of Beretta Neos .22 LR pistols.
Juliet Foxtrot Charlie! These people are idiots.
This seems like a case of some guns & ammo salesman — probably the guy from Metro Shooting Supplies at 50 seconds in the video — trying to suck off the taxpayer teat by convincing unionized government employees that they need to change the perfectly good equipment they already have.
They’re referring to guns carried by criminals as they show a bunch of $900 Sigs…
The title of the article probably should have been “What’s the Best Polymer Pistol? (instead of “Handgun”) since no revolvers were mentioned. Wheelguns are still the best choice for some people in some cases. There are some nice polymer ones out there for home defense and concealed carry. The LCRs and Bodyguards come to mind.
“Why does anyone need a AR15 rifle?”
Apparently to protect myself from people like you Chris, I’m sorry you’ve been the subject of abuse and injustice, it doesn’t give you the right to murder
This manifesto is pretty disturbing
If I could, I would have a DE in .50 AE for home defense.
I don’t like my neighbors much as you can tell.
And the b*st*rds wonder why we have objections to registration.
Nick when we find out about these things can we come up with email letters to reply back? Maybe have a special section under TTAG for this stuff. It makes it a lot easier to turn around get the word out and start pushing back.
Two things tell me that the unedited manifesto are real:
1. The press reluctance to cover it. Any of it. They’re treating this thing like they’ve discovered a turd in a punchbowl at a party given in Washington DC.
Imagine if this guy were a) white and b) a member of the Tea Party. The press would be howling this information and publishing the manifesto on their front pages today.
For those who disagree, remember the early coverage of Aurora. ABC (George Steponallofus and Brian Ross) were running with the Tea Party angle, when even a little bit of due diligence would have prevented that. The press wants there to be a Tea Party angle. They lust for it.
Now they have one of their own shooting people. Whoopsie. Coming on the heels of the clown who reads the spittle on the SPLC website and starts shooting people, it’s looking more and more inconvenient for the media narrative.
2. This screed is truly how some lunatic Democrats think. I’m sorry, but someone with a bit of wear on his treads has to say it: Just as there’s some loons on the right, there’s some serious loons on the left. I’ve met more than my share of these people over the years – in the 80’s, they were spouting nonsense about October Surprises, Geo. HW Bush flying to Iran in the back seat of an SR-71 to broker the deal that released the hostages, sheer nonsense on stilts about how cuddly the Sandanistas were, blah, blah. After 9/11, this stripe of loon were the same people who claimed that 9/11 was the job of the US Government, that explosives were planted in the WTC, blah, blah, blah. This stripe of loon started with the group that believed in grassy knolls, the CIA and Mafia, et al taking down JFK. Sorry, folks, but it was a dopey little communist who shot JFK. Yes, with a surplus Italian rifle. End of story.
The nonsense in this manifesto is simply not a far reach for the deranged left wing element. It’s actually pretty common stuff. Read that manifesto, then recall all the rants and calls for violence against the NRA and NRA members in the last two months.
I could walk into any “anti-war” demonstration I see in Colorado, Wyoming that has superannuated hippies standing around with signs, start asking some questions of the people there and start filming this sort of twaddle. These are people driven by nothing but perceptions and emotions, and the press loves these people – because without critical thinking skills, these sorts of people lap up just what the press puts out there. The press knows this, and that’s why they’re downplaying or editing the manifesto.
BTW – our POTUS has opened up a new angle for me in debating these people. Their classic question is “Why do you think you need all those guns? The US government isn’t about to start killing citizens!”
Oh, really? What about Obama’s drone program, where hits are decided by one person?
Response: Sullen silence.
Other response: “Bush did it!”
My response: “a) Bush is no longer in office, your guy is, and b) he’s just made it easier to do, not harder. So I have more reason to own guns, not less, than I did in the Bush administration.”
More sullen silence.
Well, now one of their own has gone and done a bad, bad thing. And now we’re getting to see what a bunch of Tactical Tommy thugs the LAPD (and other law “enforcement” agencies) are.
Given that the CalPERS pension is on track to bankrupt the state of California, I say “fire them all. No pension, no benefits, nothing.” Just sack them all, be done with it. People will say “But, but… there will be chaos in the streets! There will be people getting shot in the streets, criminals will be kicking in people’s doors in broad daylight!”
Yep. Just like there are now. Except the taxpayers won’t be getting robbed to pay for it.
I think the abomination that is the CA gun grab laws has done a great deal to convince the few hunters I know who weren’t concerned off of the sidelines. Even in a culture as individualist as ours tends to appear, people have a hard time believing they’re on the “wrong” side of this kind of roasting. But when you’ve just been told that any magazine you own over 10 rounds gives you instant felon status, people start realizing just what “I support the 2nd Amendment but…” actually means.
I’m a Springfield guy. I have a 9mm XD/m compact for one handed shooting with dogs and an XD Service 45/4.” They are both reliable and as accurate as the user can make them. However, my preferred piece is my old fashion steel framed Springfield Milspec. It is my most accurate pistol.
The one thing I don’t like about the XD is it’s harsh recoil. I think polymer frames have kept people away from 45 because they do not absorb the recoil energy as well as a steel frame.. With the looming restrictions on magazine size and possible restrictions on JHP. The 45 is going to be the way go as more people will have to rely on ball ammo for self defense. You do not want a polymer pistol in 45 ACP
Greetings!!!
He sounds every bit as rational as Dianne Feinstien, Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, Chuck Schumer, Barack Obama, Piers Morgan … and every other hypocritical anti-gun twit who wants to ban guns for the peasants, but not for themselves.
Glock Armorer! Good on you. The next generation of freedom lovers.
Well, it sounds like a similar style of psycho to me. He really makes some good points. We should all be disarmed so that we can be safe from all the psychos out there. He didn’t *really* mean to do what he has been doing, and he’s clearly very emotional. Perhaps banning psychotic emotions would be our best course of action.
Eh, I can’t do it – thinking like a nutcase. Nor can I “advise” CCW carriers that their best defense against this lunatic could be found in a 7rd or 10 rd mag of 9mm or .40. It’s tough living in a world that confuses reason for paranoia.
Regardless, I’ll be back on the road in SoCal soon whether this guy is caught or not. I hope and pray that my friends in uniform are as safe as possible.
Ya, when?
This Jenn Lynch person really needs to get out from under her rock and experience a bit of the world. Reality isn’t like what you see on TV, movies, video games, on the internet, and hear about on the radio. The media either has an opinion or agenda which they are pushing, most have lost the ability to be objective or where never tough that in school. Besides, if her experiences with people have been nothing but violent when it comes to weapons then she need to seek help for she’s in the wrong place around the wrong people. Her energy, money, and time would be better spent on trying to reduce Violent crime, ya guns fall into that category however gun happen to be one of the Smaller parts of Violent crimes. Once again if falls back into a lack of education, weather it is personally driven or school driven she has had a poor one, or looks that way.
It’s the people who commit Violent Crime not the tools. I haven’t seen a proposed ban on shovels, bats, knives, or even Lamps of all things. I haven’t seen a proposed ban on cars, trucks, or boats and they kill far more people each year from accidents and from accentual crimes. She needs to steep down off her high horse and join the rest of us normal mortals in the country……
Yes for all of those people who think a “registry” is the realm of the tin foil hat wearers among us, here’s yet another example of a database that the gov’t clearly keeps track of. Obviously everybody with a hunting license is a known gun owner and the State has full contact info for them (name, driver’s license, address, phone/e-mail… everything you have to put down to get your license). This information isn’t even protected to the degree where the Governor can’t get a full list just for his own marketing purposes.
They will not divide us in the Free State. Us Marylander’s that keep .22, AR15s, 870s or the like will not be divided from our hunting bretheren. O’Malley knows he needs to divide us as a community and that is exactly what he is trying to do. Bad news for him as it won’t work. I ask my fellow Marylanders to register and get involved on MDShooters.com, Maryland’s gun-owners forum. We have been the focal point for organizing against a legislature and Governor intent on destroying our rights in his quest to become President. Also please join Maryland Shall Issue who is fighting for our CCW rights here in Maryland.
Realistically, the public will turn a blind eye to a certain number of Ruby Ridge-type incidents, especially since the media will be sure to paint all such incidents as involving sister-humping militia hillbillies.
The real potential for SHTF involves a scenario like this: New York authorities have shot down some dozens of citizens in the streets for refusing the give up their ARs. Refugees have made it to Virginia, where the state government is under public pressure to shelter them, even/especially since it involves putting a stick in the eye of the Federal Government. Double-plus ungood for those of us who want a peaceful (but free) place to raise our families. Let’s hope this is all idle speculation in the end.
what garbage, but typical of our teflon leprechaun in the free state,he loves the divide and conquer move.
Well… I see that the People’s Republic of California does not grasp the Constitution again… obviously the part that addresses “no ex post facto laws shall be passed” is obscure. The reason that laws address grandfathering is because you cannot create a law that states what you did yesterday and was legal then but is now illegal. Applied here: Yes, when you purchased 10,000 rounds last year all perfectly legal, is now illegal and you have to get rid of it. Obviously the morons in California fail to grasp that the government works for the people not the other way around.
That post is as credible at this post:
http://tinyurl.com/byqn2sg
Idiots think that criminals will obey their law…How dare a criminal not to obey…Idiots abound…I think most of the “Fruitcakes” live in California…
“I’m talking about the fact that all laws depend on the threat of violence.”
Looks like someone is coming around to a more Libertarian / Anarcho-Capitalist mind set 🙂
Y’all are speaking to the choir.
The time spent hammering away on TTAG and other 2A friendly sites provides a lot of good feedback, pro 2A rights arguments, and ideas. But that’s not enough.
We will ALL be best served if SOME of that time is diverted to rallying behind pro gun rights representatives and politely protesting directly to gun grabbing politicians via direct communication. E-mail them, call them, snail mail them; but get it out there. The ground swell must be plainly evident to overcome the liberal feeding frenzy.
Politicians hate jeopardizing votes and the threat of losing support will usually dampen their restrictive ways. It happened even here in Kalifornia when an attempt late last year to ban modern carbines (so called Assault Weapons) failed to garner enough votes to leave committee for a legislative vote.
A good place to start:
http://nraila.org/get-involved-locally/grassroots/write-your-reps.aspx
If he can hang on a while, he’ll make a good chief of the newly organized National People’s police force.
“Assault bullets” and “Assault magazines” are you serious? I cant wait until brass knuckles become the new “assault weapon”, then well have “assault fingers” and “assault brass polish”. The stupidity and possibilities are endless.
These people are shooting themselves in the foot. Just wait ’till 2014 and see….
“MRI machine snatches police officer’s gun during burglary investigation at doctor’s office”
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/08/16902977-mri-machine-snatches-police-officers-gun-during-burglary-investigation-at-doctors-office?lite
We need to organize a financial boycott of any state that is considering passing ANY anti-gun laws. This will put pressure on their residents to oppose the laws when they see the impact it could have on their economy if tourism is impacted, if conventions aren’t booked there, etc. We need to start speaking with our wallets to ensure our voices are heard.
Little Billy was sadly mistaken for a dark gray Nissan Titan
Other:
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check
Is this the sign you see when you are crossing the boarder into California?
Guns are not defensive weapons?
Tell that to my son, a Marine veteran, who had to ‘defend’ himself with his ‘gun’ when his position was over-run in Afghanistan.
I like these guys.
I’ve been modeling up a slightly different concept towards the same goals; using a 10 round mag body along with a 3D printed extension. You would grind off the base plate lips on the 10 round mag and epoxy the extension on with the spring and factory follower permanently embedded.
With this design, you get:
– Factory magwell dimensions.
– Metal feed lips.
– Metal mag catch contacts.
– Factory follower.
I’m thinking such a design would be more reliable in the long term, and get around the melting issues ABS+ has.
Ahhh look, Barry is a ventriloquist now. Wonder what his hand smells like when he pulls it out of that puppet.
Pretty soon, every gun manufacturer is going to be located in Texas.
And then the Fed won’t be able to do anything about them.
Nice Rifle!
Only one thing:
You misspelled “λαβέ”. There’s an eta at the end. Years of studying Attic, and Koine Greek, reading countless passages written by men great and meek alike whose bones have lone since turn to dust, and I’m reduced to spell-checking the Greek of my fellow gun-nuts…
Which is best is just a matter of opinion. Those that throw the 1911 into the debate forget that they may be good, but are “HEAVY”, “more expensive” and with the exception of the shield, ALL have a lower round count. If they are so great, why has every law enforcement, military etc done away with them for a polymer? And how many work correctly out of the box? Very few. I currently own a glock 19, 23, a M&P 45, an XDM 45, a sig 229 in 9mm, and a FNH FNP 9 USG. If i were to class them, the M&P 45 is the house gun, the glock’s alternate between concealed carry, the xdm and sig stays in a box and my fnp is my do all and my bo gun! Out of them all, I prefer the fnh by far more than the rest. All have been 100% reliable, I shoot the best with the glock 23, but the fit/feel/function of the fnp suits me. None in reality are any “better” than the others for defensive purposes unless round count matters, then the xdm9 with its 19+1 would win that. For those looking to buy, any of the above mentioned will work, unless your competing, those are different classes of guns anyway. It is just what fits your hand and you can accurately shoot.
Not only have CTD pissed off the pro crowd, they continue with this:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/MAG-074
$99 pmags!
Actually, I find it interesting. People truly have no idea. If everyone could point to a Colt AR-15, we would have a harder time to change their minds. But their recognition is all over the place. If we stop for a minute and appreciate that, there is a great message we should be crafting.
THIS is an assault weapon. It is used by soldiers only. THIS is not an assault weapon. They may look very similar, but they function differently. It is used by millions of Americans every day. This includes regular civilians as well as police officers who call them “patrol rifles” which have mostly replaced shotguns in police cars because they have more ammo, are easier to shoot accurately, are less likely to damage unintended targets, and have more range than a shotgun. Those are the same characteristics that make these other weapons excellent for self defense for millions of American men and women.
We are facing a whole host of poorly conceived concepts, but that is the good news. It is hard to change an opinion that is nailed down in something people can actually hold or point too. Much easier to change an opinion about a concept.
These gun control laws have become a maze of regulations. They are so complicated, it is difficult for average person to keep track of.
I love my glock 17, but I like my ppq 5″ and cz p09 better. Both are reliable and even more fun to shoot.