As Civil Unrest and Looting Continue, the ATF Calls Federal Firearms License Holders

When occasional TTAG author Conner W. texted me the above screenshot, I was on the phone with the ATF. Yes, they called me at 7:00 PM central on a Saturday night. The reason for the call? To provide a warning and a suggestion.

Due to the high potential of civil unrest, including possible looting, the ATF is contacting all FFLs in certain cities (likely those located in cities over a certain size or meeting some other metric) to convey the following message:

• Lock it all up immediately. Right now. Lock up firearms, ammunition, and any related items as best as possible. Lock up or otherwise secure your records. Secure your premises.
• Don’t be there. It isn’t worth it. “Stuff” can be replaced, should your shop get looted. Your life and your family come first. So get out of dodge before things go sideways, if things go sideways.

I was surprised that the agent didn’t suggest that law enforcement would protect our business; for some reason I expected that empty attempt at…well…I’ll call it subtle manipulation (well-intended as it is) masquerading as reassurance.

There were no platitudes. Just a friendly reminder to secure things as well as we’re able to and a suggestion to not be there if and when things go bad.

On that note I’m conflicted. While all of us would prefer not to be on either side of a looting scenario that ends in violence or death, depending on one’s insurance situation, the looting of one’s business could be absolutely catastrophic. As it was for this guy.

Then again, I’m sure many (if not most) gun shop owners as well as thousands of small business owners of all types would say:

UPDATE: a few minutes shy of 11:00 PM and I received a robocall and the following email from the ATF, both providing the exact same message.

In the following video, a security agent for Q13 FOX News in Seattle snatches a patrol rifle from a rioter, who had just stolen it from one of the police cruisers seen burning and looted in the video. Two SPD rifles were reported stolen, but both have now been recovered:

comments

  1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

    What does the ATF know and not outright saying is the question.

    1. avatar Concerned Freeman says:

      1. ATF has intelligence that the CIA or FBI has shared your location with ANTIFA.
      2. The ATF has shared your location with ANTIFA.

      This is the level of “trust” we should have with our Federal Overlords.
      They specialize in (((LIES))).

      By way of deception, thou shall wage war.

      1. avatar ad-lib says:

        ah, anti-semitism, making gun owners look great!

        1. avatar arc says:

          The one group of people you aren’t allowed to criticize, investigate, scrutinize, challenge, or question. When do the Agaw, Anglo-Saxons, Assyrians, Nubians, Zulu, and several hundred other ethnic groups and indigenous peoples get their own anti-*insert* used? Yeah, that’s what I thought. It only applies to perpetual victims.

          Technically “Semite” also includes the Aramaics, Hebrews, and Arabs, however, laymen all believe it refers specifically to the Jews. In a way, using the term “anti-semite” has morphed into being anti-semetic in its own right because it now excludes all the other Semites.

    2. avatar eagle10 says:

      What they are not saying is – The shit is hitting the fan and going all over the place! Be prepared for the shit to come to your neck of the woods.

  2. avatar Sam I Am says:

    The best way to win a gunfight is don’t be in one.

    Lose your business, and you are still around to recover (and care for family, if any).

    Lose your life, and your business is irrelevant (and the family suffers for naught).

    1. avatar TweetyRex says:

      So your gun shop get looted, and one or more of your guns is used to kill a cop. It’s not your fault, right? You won’t get charged, or sued, or have you license pulled. Right? And you won’t have the BATF audit from HELL for the next six months, right? And you’ll be able to live with yourself, and sleep at night, because it wasn’t your fault. Right?

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “So your gun shop get looted, and one or more of your guns is used to kill a cop. It’s not your fault, right?”

        How do you conclude….
        – defense of the gun shop will be successful?
        – that a “successful” defense doesn’t result in you own death (which does not protect some mythical unfortunate cop)?
        – that “defending” your gun shop will prevent any and every stored firearm from being stolen, and killing your mythical unfortunate cop?
        – that a gun store owner owes his/her/it life to some mythical unfortunate cop?
        – that your own defensive weapon will not be taken from you (even if you survive) and used against your unfortunate mythical cop?
        – that your mythical unfortunate cop will be grateful that you died so that your mythical unfortunate cop can survive?
        – that your mythical unfortunate cop will even be aware you saved his/her/it life?

        Any gun store owner who cannot sleep at night knowing there is no way to absolutely prevent theft of stored firearms should not be a gun store owner. Is it rational to expect that any tool seller will be tormented if one of those sold tools was used in a crime?

        How many tool sellers do you really think explain to their families that the family future will be sacrificed to save the mythical life of some total stranger because the tool seller feels a greater responsibility to protect strangers, rather than provide for the tool seller’s family?

        Do you actually believe that I, or anyone, lies awake at night worrying some thief will steal the car out of the garage, and use it to kill some mythical unfortunate person, somewhere, sometime, somehow? I can’t think of a single acquaintance who stands guard over their cars parked in the drive, or inside the garage.

        1. avatar TweetyRex says:

          I saw a GCI poster that said “A rape is only 10 minutes, murder is forever “. I guess they want you to surrender now, and avoid the rush. If you defend your inventory and kill someone, you’ll go to jail. And if you don’t, the ATF will say you didn’t do enough to secure your inventory, and loose your license. The point is to make sure everyone sees that resisting the looters is a loosing proposition.

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “The point is to make sure everyone sees that resisting the looters is a loosing proposition.”

          If the looters/rioters come to my home, everything changes. They become an imminent deadly threat. I will gladly burn up my 200rds of .22LR in defense. After that, we will use every object we can grasp to continue the fight. However, if we see the mob coming from down the hiway, it’s out the back door, across the field, and into the trees, dialing 911 all the way.

          Our neighborhood thinks it is a GFZ, but we know where a coupla preppers live, and we will add our resources to theirs until the fire burns out.

        3. avatar Thixotropic says:

          Trolling COWARD with an idiotic comment, Sam I am.

          Go vote Socialist and STFU.

          Coward.

        4. avatar George Washington says:

          Burn through your 200 round of .22LR…..?….FKN SERIOUSLY LOL…. YOU WON’T MAKE IT THROUGH THAT 200 ROUNDS BEFORE YOUR POSITION IS OVERRUN…
          You might want to upgrade to a real defensive caliber….js

        5. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “YOU WON’T MAKE IT THROUGH THAT 200 ROUNDS BEFORE YOUR POSITION IS OVERRUN…”

          True dat. Which is why not being in a gunfight is rule number one.

          Not really concerned about the Zombie Apocalypse. If someone breaks into the house, the .22LR is primarily for a delaying action, while re-positioning to a less vulnerable location. Even if I had a long gun sporting .577 Nitro Express, avoiding a gunfight would be top priority; stand and fight when there is no other option.

          When you are young, you are invincible, bullet-proof. After a point, you realize your supply of oxygen dwindles rapidly, and you want to keep breathing as long as possible.

          If you are going to give up your life, don’t give it up over stuff; stuff that you will have no use for afterward.

        6. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

          Wow, you are willing to invest $20 on the just about the least effective ammo there is in the defense of your home and family. Are you sure that isn’t overkill?

        7. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Are you sure that isn’t overkill?”

          Fixed income, tight budget, old hands. The peashooter is 99% hobby, and 1% defense. Wanted to move up to .327, but the annual firepower expenditures are limited to $500/yr, including range fees. Could move up to higher caliber, but then no money for ammo, or range. Buying a new gun could possibly mean waiting two more years to afford to use it. Besides, I live in, like, you know, a totally really safe place, and nothing bad happens to good people. Well, except for those who just need it to happen to them, like when they won’t mind me.

        8. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          , I live in, like, you know, a totally really safe place, and nothing bad happens to good people.

          1.. there is no such thing as a really safe place
          2.. nothing bad happens to good people… until it does.

        9. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “1.. there is no such thing as a really safe place
          2.. nothing bad happens to good people… until it does.”

          The last line of the comment should have been the giveaway.

        10. avatar Matt says:

          Sam I Am, that really isn’t a lot of ammo and .22 is not the most effective round unless you hit them in the head. Your best solution is to not use your gun and just leave the area until the danger is over.

        11. avatar Sam I Am says:

          ” Your best solution is to not use your gun and just leave the area until the danger is over.”

          Yep. .22, at best, under perfect circumstances, could provide a delaying action while escaping. Getting old ain’t for sissies.

        12. avatar Dave Huff says:

          I can…..

        13. avatar No one of consequence says:

          Vic: could be worse, it could be .25ACP…

        14. avatar Cliff H says:

          Why doesn’t any major manufacturer make a submachine gun (semi-auto) in .22lr or .380?

        15. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Why doesn’t any major manufacturer make a submachine gun (semi-auto) in .22lr or .380?”

          Are you thinking full-auto? There’s that crappy law against new machine guns.

        16. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

          I envy a “fixed” income. Mine has been declining for 20 years. You are right also , like you, I live were a riot is extremely unlikely and do not much expect to even use my weapons much less against a rabid mob.The last place I moved from was Ihan Omar’s congressional district just south of the St, Paul which is proving to be as dangerous as feared it could be.Good luck where you are, I fear you are way under-gunned for just about anything that is a bigger threat than a squirrel -especially for someone that can’t run.

        17. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “I fear you are way under-gunned for just about anything that is a bigger threat than a squirrel.”

          We were tormented (terrorized) by three insistent squirrels for a while. Finally a racoon showed up and made short work of them (well, they aren’t around anymore). Now the racoon is demanding a bounty for ridding us of the squirrels. The Colonel thinks the rascal is cute.

        18. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Mine has been declining for 20 years.”

          Hate to hear that for anyone. Of course, inflation makes all “fixed” income “decline”. Hope your income is not actually being decremented.

        19. avatar Miner49er says:

          Sam, there’s much wisdom in your approach.

          There is no looter who will not swiftly reassess his decisions, when he’s hit once or twice In the torso or head.

          A 1022, with a reliable 30 or 50 round magazine can easily deal with multiple invaders. Low flash/report makes it difficult for your opponent to locate you. Low recoil keeps your rounds on target if you need to tap again. Fun for the whole family, kids love ‘em!

          Inexpensive ammo means more time at the range, improving proficiency and effectiveness.
          Light weight means you can carry many rounds, if you need to unass the AO.

          ‘Float like a butterfly sting like a bee’
          Muhammad Ali

          A hit with a BB is better than a miss with a howitzer’

        20. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “A hit with a BB is better than a miss with a howitzer’”

          Taught me brother that, back when we were wee lads.

        21. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          A hit with a BB is better than a miss with a howitzer’

          Not a very good analogy, the concussion from a 9 inch howitzer (miss) can do a lot more damage to the human body than a BB… the German “BIG BERTHA” (16.5 inch shell) was a “howitzer”

        22. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Not a very good analogy, the concussion from a 9 inch howitzer (miss) can do a lot more damage to the human body than a BB”

          I took it to mean a howitzer round fired as a rifle, as in completely missing the target, and traveling unimpeded miles beyond.

        23. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Of course you did.. how could anyone know that a “howitzer” is not a line of sight weapon?

        24. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Not a very good analogy, the concussion from a 9 inch howitzer (miss) can do a lot more damage to the human body than a BB”

          Modern howitzers can be used in direct fire mode. Indirect fire is the common, designed use.

        25. avatar PsychoUSMC says:

          I used to think I lived in a relatively safe place, rural Virginia, out on the Chesapeake Bay. 11k people in the county. Lived here for 14 years, never had a murder in the county. But here I sit today, all the stores are closed, every deputy is on duty, EMS is staged, and BLM and antifa are due to arrive any minute. So much for that safe place.

        26. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “So much for that safe place.”

          Would think all that preparation would increase safety.

          Anyhoo, the “safe place” lines were followed by the giveaway line at the end of the comment.

        27. avatar Gala Poola says:

          22LR, well that is a dead give away this is someone not of the gun. They tried to sound informed but these people always expose themselves. Besides, 200 rounds is such a “round” number. Probably doesn’t know they come in bricks of 325/500 and so on.

        28. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “22LR, well that is a dead give away this is someone not of the gun. They tried to sound informed but these people always expose themselves. Besides, 200 rounds is such a “round” number. Probably doesn’t know they come in bricks of 325/500 and so on.”

          A complete blunder. Sometimes happens to new subscribers, and skim readers.

          – .22LR is the caliber for my Beretta Neos
          – .22LR is a caliber I can handle
          – .22LR is a firearm I can afford, along with range fees and ammunition buys
          – 200 rounds is the remainder of this year’s ammo buy
          – Ammunition must be judiciously accounted for as there may not be remaining budget to cover the entire year, so yes, I know exactly how much ammo I have on hand
          – A person does not need to be a “gun nut” to be a POTG; it is defending the Second Amendment that makes one a POTG.

          Note: .22LR can be purchased in boxes of 50 cartridges
          https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ammunition/rimfire/.22-long-rifle/

        29. avatar Gala Poola says:

          Even more of a tell, who the hell buys anything from cheaper than dirt, especially if you are not swimming in cash. Anyone can cull words from the internet and pretend to be something. Sad.

        30. avatar Sam I Am says:

          Been here since 2013, Grasshopper. Abe Lincoln had a pithy comment about when to speak, and when to hold, but Plato was there first:

          “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something.
          — Plato”

        31. avatar LEA says:

          TOTALLY AGREE!

        32. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “TOTALLY AGREE!”

          Be careful, there. You might be accused of hanging with the wrong crowd.

    2. avatar Chief Censor says:

      The feds got wind of a plan to start a boogaloo once the military comes in and starts shooting. The whole “when the looting starts, the shooting starts” retardation. They want gun shops to hide their guns to prevent them from getting into the hands of those who are going to pop some cops and soldiers.

      1. avatar Ron says:

        Yeah well your glorious revolution is already falling apart. Watching a live feed of national guard and state troopers in Minneapolis right now, and they’re actually advancing on the rioters and making tons of arrests, and your heroic invincible rioters are fleeing like the cowards they are. The funny part is they’re surrounded and a bunch of them fled into a pre designated arrest zone.

        So much for your glorious rioters conquering America.

        1. avatar strych9 says:

          They seem to have folded like a cheap suit in Denver as well.

          Apparently DPD went through, located stashed gas bottles and other weapons and removed them before the curfew time and then… actually enforced the curfew.

          Actually sorta surprised they pulled this off as well as they did. But then it’s not their first rodeo with hard left whackos either.

        2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Everywhere the cops have been aggressive the coward punks have turned and run…. Sorry trolls, this ain’t your boogaloo..

        3. avatar Tim says:

          I have it on good authority that all the rioters are WHYTE SUPPREMISISS and FOREIGNERS!!11!

          Apparently they’re also the ones cleaning up the mess each morning as well, so it all evens out I guess.

        4. avatar frank speak says:

          just helpful advice…put ’em all in the safe…and hope for the best….

        5. avatar Chief Censor says:

          Yesterday that wasn’t the case. They actually set more fires. I haven’t been watching Minneapolis streams today because I was watching California streams.

          As long as they don’t shoot people things won’t go to the next level. They wanted the military and police to shoot people to spark the next level of unrest.

        6. avatar Ron says:

          Yeah yeah yeah. Always an excuse with you.

      2. avatar George Washington says:

        Stfu…. moron

      3. avatar burley says:

        These riots have nothing to do with the boogaloo, or the big igloo or bag luau or whatever the kids are calling these days. There might have been a legit opportunity to apply some appropriate pressure, but when they started burning and looting non-government buildings, they become plain old terrorist, not protestors. the Nation was united for about 10 minutes. It was just about to roll hard agains the Gov, then the paid rioters showed up and made it a race thing. This is not organic, something nasty is being covered up or distracted from and it is desparately boog worthy.

    3. avatar Phil LA says:

      Thanks for the public service message. Your concept is essentially “live to fight another day.” They are willing to fight every day. At some point we must realize that it is in fact “another day.”

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        ” Your concept is essentially “live to fight another day.” ”

        How many riots have happened in this country since 1945? How many led to the complete breakdown of law and order in the nation? How many resulted in civil war?

        These things erupt now and again, everyone gets their panties in a twist, the hot wind blows itself out, and life returns to normal for the vast majority of the populace. None of it is good for the nation, or the victims of the thugs, but everyone gets the vapors over what is essentially a brush fire, like every other brush fire. The fire eventually exhausts the fuel.

        If you are alive after the brush fire, whatever your loss, you have a potential to recover. If you are dead trying to “save” your business, you are dead, you saved no one, and your survivors are robbed of their most precious and important treasure…for nothing.

        A series of riots ain’t “the electric boogaloo”, ain’t the third civil war, ain’t the suppression of government tyranny. Don’t throw away your life on the cheap. Your presence may be critical come that someday in the future.

        1. avatar neiowa says:

          A French snowflake.

        2. avatar Miner49er says:

          Sam is correct, his assessment more closely describes reality than most on this forum.

      2. avatar frank speak says:

        they will melt away in the face of a forceful response,,,,but it’s hard to get that message across to liberal mayors and governors…..

        1. avatar burley says:

          Liberal mayors and governors are WHY they riot. They(leftist politicos) are very much aware of what they are doing. They WILL use this bought and paid for, televised for best effect attack on private Americans to take EVEN MORE of their states’ and cities’ liberties. This is the planned outcome of these riots. The asinine part of it is that the people will always clamor for more government control when they are afraid. The government will ALWAYS oblige.

    4. avatar arc says:

      My products are live and will probably out live me; I’m not letting rabid humans destroy what I have built. I’m retired from the 0311s and I’ll rain shit and fury down on the third world armies before they run me out of whats mine.

      These are the best times, right now, there is no up from here, only down. Get what you need now. I am fortifying my location as much as I can with legally allowable obstacles like agave, black berries, yuccas, barbed wire, etc. Even if someone sprayed roundup on everything, the Agaves and Blackberries leave behind skeletons covered in thorns, they are still a very effective deterrence. I can also replant the dead ones because Black berries and Agaves grow like weeds.

      Telephone poles aren’t terribly expensive and make great vehicle barriers, even the scraps from fence posts. Slowing down chainsaws is fairly simple with tacking in lots of old nails and wrapping them in steel flashing. They don’t have to be high, just high enough to trash a vehicle if anyone tries to drive over them.

      (No, you aren’t pulling a post that is 3-4′ into the ground out with a truck.)

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “I’m retired from the 0311s and I’ll rain shit and fury down on the third world armies before they run me out of whats mine.”

        Dying a glorious death to preserve property has one, singular and permanent result: death. No number dead 0311s you can imagine will replace your property, or care for your family. Only being alive can provide future options.

        My comment is meant to push back on the idea that everyone who declares they will stand an fight over property believes they will prevail, and live to tell about it. Yet, every time I ask if such individuals have informed their family, the people depending upon them, that preserving property is more important than preserving the family’s source of strength, all I get is crickets.

        To steal a thought, “You don’t win battles by dying for your property.”

        But the prophets said it best, “Pride goeth before a fall.”

    5. avatar Cow314159 says:

      Looters targeted many Nashville businesses over the weekend. One of the few area shops left undamaged had posted a sign overnight: “Do not enter. Armed response.”

      1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

        Probably works as well or better than “black owned” sign as it projects indifference to race as in “I don’t give shit who you are come in here and deal with the consequences”… Also not too specific… hmmm one guy one gun or several guys with many guns?

      2. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “One of the few area shops left undamaged had posted a sign overnight: “Do not enter. Armed response.” ”

        Not sure we can define a gunfight as being a posted sign. Glad it worked, though.

  3. avatar jwtaylor says:

    Is stateside kill hyphenated? Asking for a friend.

    1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

      It could probably work either way

    2. avatar strych9 says:

      Lol. Only if it’s semi-auto. Full auto is too fast to add in the extra characters.

      1. avatar Just Sayin (OG) says:

        Oh man. Did not see that.

        Well played sir.

        👍👍

  4. avatar 76shovel says:

    More rooftop Koreans are needed!

    1. avatar Squiggy81 says:

      I was just about to say the same thing, but you beat me to it. Those guys were badass.

    2. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Unfortunately, the Asians are not happy with how white and black people have been treating them during the pandemic. Don’t expect help from them now. They have no motivation to help non Asians after being blamed for a pandemic. They are only like 6 percent of the population anyway, thanks to the immigration bans from the past and the concentration camps.

      If only there was a lot more east Asians in America…. Maybe this kind of nonsense wouldn’t go down.

      1. avatar Mad Max says:

        Do Hong Kong protesters count?

        May be seeing a lot of them soon.

    3. avatar Lil loquito 90039 NE says:

      I was in Koreatown getting lunch earlier, saw a bunch of unmarked LAPD vehicles rushing down 3rd St, towards the scene of what is the now riot

  5. avatar LifeSavor says:

    This is insidious. The ATF is setting it up so that any firearms dealer who decides to protect his business now finds himself contrary to the ATF. Should events go sideways, prosecutors are going to love telling juries that the gun seller did not heed ATF advice.

    Abolish the ATF!!!

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      If things go sideways there will be no trials with juries.

    2. avatar Cletus says:

      If you were a dealer in one of these areas and have not packed up all the goodies for off site storage by this point you aren’t to smart.

      If I was a dealer I’d just leave all my records boxed up in the middle of the store along with a 5 gallon can of gas, a couple of road flares and a case of malt liquor.

      1. avatar George Washington says:

        Lol….

      2. avatar Craig in IA says:

        I like it-

        “Sorry, officer, only one door entered and the only thing taken were my 25 years of 4473s. Can’t understand it…”

  6. avatar Chief Censor says:

    Apparently the rumors I heard are verified by the government locally and federally. The hot boogaloo is going down once the military hits the streets and starts shooting people. So goes the plan. Mr. President Dumbass is playing right into the hands of the dancers.

    For those of you living in your mainstream delusions, this has nothing to do with Floyd, his death was the last domino. This all could have been avoided if the government wasn’t continuing with its corruption. They tried too hard to protect their 4 brothers. The result was civil unrest and a great depression in the making.

    There already has been a shooting that killed one cop. The government is saying that it was a domestic terrorist attack.

    Why do you think the police and military are standing by as the youth burn their cars and smash CNN? They know they don’t have control anymore and are trying to prevent a civil war by allowing the people to vent their rage on property. However, there is a group that is trying to push the government’s hand so the guns can come out.

    Anyway. Let’s see if all those right wing boogaloo soldiers are going to do what they said they would do when the music started playing. The ones I saw at the first days of protesting ran home.

    1. avatar John A. Smith says:

      It’s a real bummer, but you’re not wrong.

    2. avatar Ron says:

      Reality showing otherwise. Look up the results from the curfews going on right now. Your rioting heros are in full retreat.

    3. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      It’s funny, going through the arrest and jail admission records for Hennepin County for these supposed “white supremacists.”

      https://jailroster.hennepin.us/JailRosterOnline/jail-roster

      Let’s see, who are some of the people arrested and booked in the last 24 hours, being charged with “Riot,” and held w/o bail?

      CASTILLA-ALVAREZ, DARWIN DAVID, age 21, from Minneapolis, MN.

      Yep. sounds like a real white supremacist.

      ELAM, SIERRA LEE, age 20, from Minneapolis, MN.

      Yep, little girls can play this came too!

      FANG, MICHAEL CHENG LENG, age 24, from St. Paul, MN.

      Oh, no! The Chinese have stolen the jobs American white supremacists won’t do!

      GLASS, DEZTINY TROI, age 20, from Brooklyn Park, MN.

      What do some mothers smoke while they’re in labor? Good grief, imagine going through life with this name.

      I won’t bore you with the rest. Suffice to say, it doesn’t comport with your narrative – or the left wing leadership’s narrative of “right wing” elements coming into their city. It’s their very own left-wing homies who are getting snatched up for causing the riots.

    4. avatar Biff says:

      The police have been standing by and watching everything burn because the liberal politicians in the affected areas don’t want to shoot the people who voted them into office. The military is standing by because the National Guard can’t do anything until those same politicians ask for help and the State Governor activates the Guard.

      This isn’t going to cause a Civil War, most sane people want order to be restored and putting up with curfews for a few days would be worth it to most. No one is talking about martial law and warrant less searches or mass gun confiscation.

      I feel for the residents of these areas that just want to live their lives. Quite a few of these burned business will never be rebuilt. We are headed for a depression and a collapse in commercial real estate values. Most of the property owners would be better off taking the insurance money and walking away. The business owners that don’t throw in the towel will soon realize they can make a buck running a business elsewhere. In a nicer area where they won’t get burned out. It’s not like there won’t be enough empty store fronts for them to set up shop along with a cheaper lease payment that will reflect the new economic reality.

      1. avatar neiowa says:

        The “military” is NOT present. The governor call up the NG for riot control.

        And yes, C Censor is STILL a moron.

        1. avatar Rick the Bear says:

          The National Guard is a part of the military. Since 1933. Just sayin’.

        2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          National Guard can and has been FEDERALIZED by the President (Iraq, Afghanistan) POTUS CAN take charge at his discretion

    5. avatar Hydguy says:

      Chief_Dumbass ithe commie s a fucking retard.

    6. avatar Craig in IA says:

      “The hot boogaloo is going down once the military hits the streets and starts shooting people. So goes the plan. Mr. President Dumbass is playing right into the hands of the dancers.”

      Idiotic statement. There is no way that Trump will send in any troops. He’s made the offer to troll the local mayors/governors into acting on their own. What would Trump have to gain from entering this fray when the real “bosses” on location aren’t willing to act? If you’re waiting for the U.S. Cavalry, Sensor, you’ll have a long wait.

      It’s also becoming obvious that the riots won’t leave the center of the new “urban renewal areas” because once outside they may encounter adults of means with a plan to stand their ground and protect their property and lives, whether or not the government in question authorizes them to do so. I DO NOT advocate violence nor anything but defensive actions that would be taken by any sane human being if their lives were being threatened.

  7. avatar Steve says:

    More popcorn !! Dammit woman !!!!!!

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      More cowbell…

      1. avatar jwm says:

        Dammitalltohell, Haz, don’t do that. I was trying to take a drink.

      2. avatar enuf says:

        Never cared for Will Ferrell, he’s just not funny.

        1. avatar Rick the Bear says:

          Ditto. However….I do like that sketch.

        2. avatar enuf says:

          Christopher Walken is always fun to watch just being himself.

        3. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          I like Ferrell up to about the “Elf” era. He went downhill after that because the “overgrown manchild” isn’t so funny anymore once the person hits his 40s. Jim Carrey and Robin Williams are two more examples.

          But Walken is a treasure in that skit.

          “I have a fever. And the only prescription…is more cowbell.”

  8. avatar Otto LOde says:

    the yah tee eff is nobodies friend this will be used to say that looted gun stores are a danger to the community

    So far all arrest in MSP are radical LEFT wingers ID’s show are LOCAL residents there have been no out of town arian nation people in the riots

    1. avatar Craig in IA says:

      Can’t speak for Minneapolis but reading about my primary locality (Des Moines) this morning from my lake place 200 miles north of MNPLS, the DM Register reporter was told by many people involved in the rioting there last night that they’d been in Minneapolis the past few days and came down to Des Moines yesterday. I’m very surprised the Register would actually report that in print or online.

      “8:23 p.m.: Register reporter Andrea Sahouri reports that multiple Des Moines protesters have told her over the last two days that they had been in Minneapolis to participate in protests there.” (https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/2020/05/30/live-protesters-gather-outside-police-department-des-moines-george-floyd/5295600002/ )

  9. avatar Dgant says:

    Police won’t be there. Will a crowd continue to assault whence fired upon? Will a crowd continue to assault after several folks have been hit? Can two or three armed citizens with MSRs successfully defend their or their friends livelyhood? Should a citizen be prosecuted for defending their life liberty and pursuit of happiness? Does looting a Target affect change the opinion or prove the point of those you want to disprove? Come with harm at me and those I love and you will be met with violence. That being said I live in the middle of a state most people will never visit and has a, as of now, low crime rate. The best way to avoid a gun fight is to have a f**king gun and know how to use it. Run away and they will come back. Ask the fedayeen.

  10. avatar NORDNEG says:

    F O ^

  11. avatar Ing says:

    At this point it’s clear that NOBODY who is out there roaming the streets is up to any good. Man the rooftops, stand guard at all entrances, and shoot anyone who lingers or gathers within 30 yards.

    We’re on our own, so we might as well act like it.

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      If you are on your own don’t start something you can’t finish. Just mind your business and find people you can trust to have your back.

      You might want to load your mags, get your armor ready, park your car in the garage and prepare your fire extinguishers.

      The fire starters have reached a new level yesterday. They were first focusing on corporations. Now they don’t care if the fires get close to residential homes. They haven’t reach levels of going after the residents because they don’t want to push the people into the arms of the government.

      1. avatar Ing says:

        We’re on our own regarding the maintenance of civil order — but that doesn’t mean you’re *alone*. If you’ve got something of value to protect that’s in harm’s way, find some like-minded people and work together.

        #inthistogether isn’t just for COVID.

      2. avatar Mark N. says:

        Go take your meds CC. Nothing you say is anything but an anarchist’s wet dream. Unless the police are fired upon, they will not start shooting. And right now, the “resistance” melts in the face of riot police and go home. Which is about par for the course for American style rioting. It continues until the police/ NG take a stand, and then it ends. The looting and burning is kids having a good time and covering their crimes through anonymity. They are not unified by a cause and creed. They are not ANTIFA, and will not follow in ANTIFA’s footsteps.

      3. avatar Huntmaster says:

        I live on a small street in the suburbs. Maybe 35 homes. I know that on that small street there are about 15 homes with firearms. Between us we have oh… maybe 175,000 rounds of ammo. Bring it on. Who wants to be first.

  12. avatar Otto LOde says:

    Be careful of crossfire nand your backdrops folks we will be in this together cops are not here to help there will be targets fast and many God be with You ALL

  13. avatar Forrest says:

    Point your m1919 at the door and defend your property against theft with a full belt.

    Because if your guns are stolen and used to harm people, you will absolutely be vilified by the media in an attempt to steal our rights.

  14. avatar Ben says:

    TTAG’s comment section at its finest. Civil unrest becomes civil war.

    At night, when I kneel next to my bed, next time I’ll pray none of you have children.

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Civil unrest leads to martial law. Martial law leads to civil war. At least in America.

      Imagine the government saying the constitution has been suspended in order to arrest everyone and hold them until the rioting stops or to force them into house arrest. And anyone out past curfew will be shot. To top it off, no one can have guns.

      You know something like that happened small scale in America before. Now imagine that throughout America. If the boogaloo right wingers are true to their word, they will start shooting their government.

      ANTIFA wants their revolution. They already said, “the liberals get the bullet too.”

      1. avatar Tim says:

        Wow….good thing you’re “anti-fascist”. Because if you were actually “fascist” while just posing as “anti-fascist”, well then sir, that would be quite a thing.

        1. avatar Hydguy says:

          Nice use of irony..

          Yea, Chief_Commie is a hardcore fascist.
          He really hates the fact that whites dare have an opinion.

    2. avatar Montana Actual says:

      What fucking war do you know that ever started any differently? What fucking war ever started peacefully? A governments war, maybe. That’s called tyranny. Like bush and his oil wars. This, IS in fact civil war. It’s the breaking point of a cold war we have been at for years now.

      Instead of praying for my kids, maybe pray for your own, that they will grow up to know the value of having to fight for freedom.

      1. avatar Rick the Bear says:

        Bush and his oil wars???

        Boy, we sure got a lot of oil then. Or did I miss something?

        1. avatar Miner49er says:

          Oh no, we didn’t get the oil.

          We, the taxpayers and citizens, spent $3 trillion and 4000 American lives to secure the oil for the corporate multi national oil corporations.

          Donald Trump said the Iraq war was the biggest mistake America had ever made, I believe it’s certainly in the top 10.

        2. avatar Montana Actual says:

          Apparently you missed the entire reason for the FAILED war.

        3. avatar arc says:

          Don’t forget those elusive WMDs. (Syria sounds a lot like these lies too.)

          Saddam stopped playing the role of puppet, so we took him out. (another reason)
          He also had gold and oil; the gold went missing with the truth, the oil and rebuilding effort were tossed over to Bush’s friends and they got filthy rich on it, not including having to buy all those beans, bullets, and bandages for the good ole American war effort! All those lucrative contracts, congress got fat on them as well.

          The total cost is around 12 Trillion now, not including all the American blood and life that was pissed away over there.

  15. avatar Cooter E Lee says:

    It sets a bad precedent for the looting to continue if no one is willing to defend their property with force.

    I have a hard time believing that “protestors.” (Looters) would continue an assault on a store if met with armed resistance.

  16. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

    I wonder if insurance even covers damages/loss during a declared emergency or riot?

    1. avatar WI Patriot says:

      Don’t count on it…

    2. avatar former water walker says:

      Nope…exclusions in not so fine print. I was an insurance agent in another life. Civil insurection,acts of war and rioting are routinely excluded.

    3. avatar GS650G says:

      The looters seem to think some big insurance company will pay for it all, so it’s all okay then.

      Guardian Royal insured a shopping mall in Indonesia that was burned to the ground. 110 million loss. The Indonesian government held back on a SOE designation so the owners could collect. This and a few other claims bankrupted GRE and AXA bought them. 150 years in business until then
      So declaring SOE protects big insurance companies. Most people are fucked and have to take out loans.

    4. avatar Pete says:

      USAA homeowners insurance does cover damage due to riots and war, but certain limitations on the damages incurred by war (but no limits other than your policy coverage for riots).

      It also covers damage from falling spacecraft and aircraft, but excludes all nuclear explosions (even accidental ones.

      1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

        USAA is a righteous insurance company. Family has been with them since the late 1950s…

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “USAA is a righteous insurance company.”

          USAA is a good company. Give them a call and ask about coverage for black mold damage, medical expenses and mitigation.

    5. avatar Mark D says:

      Only if you purchased a Terrorism rider on your policy

    6. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      Typically, “no.”

      You can get riders on some policies, but depending on where you are, they can be expensive or prohibitively expensive.

      This is why, after these riots, business move out of urban core areas. Why bother setting up a business where you’re going to have not only loss of inventory, but also complete real estate loss?

  17. avatar former water walker says:

    I can’t replace my house…or wife or son’s. Sorry FFL holders,sycophants and trolls. I will fight to the death to protect them. I’m 66 years old and don’t care…

    1. avatar Tim says:

      Good for you!

    2. avatar Tired of the bs says:

      Till the last round. Then it gets really interesting.

      1. avatar arc says:

        That’s when the batchette and other fun zombie toys come out.

  18. avatar Manse Jolly says:

    So glad I don’t live near a major metropolitan area. No riots here, no unrest, no troops needed.

    1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

      Yup. Same here.

    2. avatar Mark N. says:

      Ditto. Not even a peaceful protest. Though there were several about the lock down orders.

  19. avatar Broke_It says:

    Is anyone else unsettled by this “room to destroy” trend. Where are the authorities? Now is exactly the time for a show of force to restore order. 5 days is too goddamn long.

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      99% of Americans do not agree it’s okay to shoot people over property crimes. The rioters have not been violent, at least not violent enough to call for deadly force. The law literally says you can’t shoot over property. Company policies say not to attempt to stop stealing.

      Maybe if Republicans would agree with me about humans having the natural right to protect their property, this would have never been an option that works very well for these people?

      They already made an example out of a man in Minneapolis when he defended his pawn store. Last time I checked it was still there while the other pawn shop was burnt down. He’s in jail now for murder.

      1. avatar Jeremy S. says:

        “The law literally says you can’t shoot over property”

        There are many states in which you can, in fact, use deadly force to protect your property. By way of example: https://codes.findlaw.com/tx/penal-code/penal-sect-9-42.html

        (In no way does that comment suggest how I personally feel about doing so. I’m just informing you of the facts since you seem to have made an assumption that is not correct in many cases.)

      2. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

        More than 1% of the US population lives in Texas, where, after dark, you can most certainly shoot someone in defense of property.

        1. avatar jwtaylor says:

          It’s closer to 10% of Americans that live in Texas. Also our law does not require it to be dark to use force, even deadly force, to protect property.

        2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Fl (3rd most populous state) ALSO permits deadly force in defense of property (day OR night)

      3. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

        And as to “the rioters have not been violent”…

        Do you actually read what you write? A riot, by definition, is a “violence offense against public order…” usually specified in law by a group of three or more people.

        There’s a legal distinction to a riot, which is different than a protest, which is different from a mere assembly. Leftists have been playing post-modernist deconstruction word games for the last 50 years, but you’re not getting away with that here.

        Let’s check the Minnesota statute law on the matter:

        https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.71

        Seems like the word “violence” is inherent in all definitions of riot. You termed them rioters – therefore, they are by definition, violent.

      4. avatar Tired of the bs says:

        Arson/attempted arson is attempted murder if an occupied structure. I sure as hell will shoot to kill anyone trying to light up my property.

      5. avatar MADDMAXX says:

        Chief Censor, 99% of TTAG readers agree that you are a moronic troll…..

        1. avatar Miner49er says:

          Hey, I’m in the 1% now!

        2. avatar Tired of the bs says:

          If you ever met a real 1%er you would shit yourself and cry for mommy.

        3. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Partied and rode with 1%rs in California for 15 yrs (friend of the club never wanted to patch in) All the benefits without the bullshit…

        4. avatar Miner49er says:

          So you’re assuming I don’t know about bikers, how precious…

          To paraphrase the original saying, you are the one percent that gives the other 99% of the trolls a bad name.

        5. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          actually “Miner” it was {Tired of the bs) that disparaged your comment about the one 1%.. I was simply stating a fact in case that individual was inferring that I might also be ignorant to the ways of the Outlaw Biker world.. I did NOT assume that YOU were attempting to include yourself in that group… Nor am I familiar with your knowledge (or lack thereof) of the world of the 1%r…. I would hope that you were not referring to me as a “troll” which would make nearly everyone posting here a “troll”

      6. avatar arc says:

        You pulled that right out of your ass. It is a state by state issue and you absolutely can shoot to stop someone from stealing property and even more so, livelihood.

  20. avatar GS650G says:

    We know the authorities will prosecute anyone who pulls a trigger because we know who gets sympathy in the press and ultimately government. Unless it all falls apart and strays apart for a while there will be a day of reckoning.
    And all that defending my self or property talkm will be poo pooed by people seeking retribution. And it won’t be constitutionalists passing judgement.
    A few other scenarios are possible but it s hard to predict how it’s going to end up. Looters and arsonists have little to worry about, that much is for certain.

    1. avatar Tired of the bs says:

      They should worry about lead poisoning.

  21. avatar D Y says:

    Am I the only not too hurt by the thought of just the records going up in flames?

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      That was my first thought, too.

    2. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “Am I the only not too hurt by the thought of just the records going up in flames?”

      Having once been a federal employee, I have great confidence that ATF will shutdown any FFL whose records were not protected, regardless of the reason.

  22. avatar Montana Actual says:

    Fuck what they want. Arm yourself, protestors. Do not let the tyrants tell you what to do. It is your right to arm yourself. It is your right to protest armed. It is your DUTY to pursue MORE freedoms. This country deserves the change. Instead of local businesses, punish the lawmakers, the enforcers, THE TYRANTS.

    1. avatar neiowa says:

      Forget to take your meds today moron?

      1. avatar Montana Actual says:

        If you don’t stand for something, you fall for anything.

        Are you scared to talk about it? Witty one liners getting played out buddy. Guess there is not much to do in Iowa tho…

  23. avatar FormerParatrooper says:

    It will blow over.

    1. avatar jwm says:

      Yessir. Things were worse in the 60s.

      1. avatar Mark N. says:

        Yup, this is small potatoes compared to what happened after Martin Luther King, Jr. was murdered. There are parts of Baltimore that even now, more than 50 years later, are burned out, boarded up hulks.

        1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

          B’ham was pretty bad during Bull Conner’s reign as well.

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “B’ham was pretty bad during Bull Conner’s reign as well.”

          I was there. Conner’s police were not a tolerant bunch. I remember the church bombing, but no burning sections of downtown. Getting old, now; memory might have a few holes.

  24. avatar Don Ward says:

    Leave it to the snowflakes at TTAG to get their panties twisted over the ATF doing something proactive and useful for a change.

    1. avatar Montana Actual says:

      Are you serious? The only thing the ATF is trying to do is prevent people taking arms against tyrants. Do you honestly believe these agencies exist to do ANYTHING proactive? Literally exists to infringe on your rights, and tax you while doing it. Get real.

      1. avatar Don Ward says:

        Spotted another snowflake.

        1. avatar Rick the Bear says:

          Well, it seems clear that Montana is upset. Still, he has one point.

          The ATF (at least currently) only infringes on Rights. They don’t protect anyone (except themselves). See: Waco.

        2. avatar Tired of the bs says:

          Snowflake hell he speaks the truth. At needs to be disbanded, illegal agency and all that.

  25. avatar John Galt says:

    Secure your guns and ammunition…….put your records in a pile on the curb so the rioters can burn them……

    FU*K atf, every one of their agents and their families

  26. avatar MADDMAXX says:

    L.A. cops surrounded a group of looters and fatass handler wearing a red Moscow Mitch t-shirt pulled up in a car with ACAB (all cops are bastards) on the side and jumped out with a bullhorn telling everyone to home….

  27. avatar Adub says:

    This would explain why gun stores in the MPLS suburbs were closed today. Helpful news.

  28. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    The ATF is acting like most other law enforcement: throwing up their hands and saying “What can you do, eh?”

    This proves that modern law enforcement is largely useless. When the crap hits the fan, they’re going to make sure that they get to enjoy their taxpayer-fattened retirement and bennies.

    There’s no point in keeping law enforcement on the public dole any more. Fire all law enforcement (federal and state) other than elected county sheriffs, so they’re not able to frame anyone any more, remove the laws against defending property with lethal force, arm the population and let’s go at this Heinlein-style. We might not fare any better in terms of crime rates, but the taxpayers won’t be on the hook for trillions in unfunded public employee pensions, which are just adding insult to the injuries we suffer.

  29. avatar Hannibal says:

    Apparently Seattle cops are just handing over rifles to the bad guys… because that’s what you’re doing if you leave a patrol car to get looted.

    In my experience someone trying to get a police firearm would justify deadly force. But I’ve never been to seattle…

    1. avatar Montana Actual says:

      Try it and find out what happens. You think it’s bad now? Try shooting these people and see the public’s response.

    2. avatar enuf says:

      Was last in Seattle in 1986.

      I recall it rained.

      That’s about it.

      1. avatar Engy says:

        And it is still raining

      2. avatar Dude says:

        Seeing Mount Rainier in the distance is what I recall about my visit there 30 years ago. I’d love to have that view from my porch. I actually got lucky with little to no rain for a week in June.

      3. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “Was last in Seattle in 1986.
        I recall it rained.
        That’s about it.”

        Visited Seattle in 1990. Same-same.

  30. avatar Buff cousin Elroy says:

    I got that alert on my phone. Im eastside the lake of Seattle.

  31. avatar Prndll says:

    FFl’s would be wise to keep a couple box trucks (or 18 wheelers in some cases) on standby as they might be needed at any given moment. It might even be a good idea to only keep a partial inventory in their store front. Under these circumstances, keeping their paper records offsite might be a good idea too.

    This to me is a multifaceted attack on the middle class and the American way of life. It keeps the poor man poor and feeds the anti-american left. Those that have always wanted to bring destruction to the US are pushing hard.

    I see no fundamental difference between the middle east Muslim radicals that fly planes into our buildings, the Washington left like Pelosi and the Clintons, ANTIFA, Black Lives Matter, Moms Demand Action, industrial abortion, cops the willfully stand back as criminals commit crime in front of them, tech companies that get rich by providing the means to spy on average citizens, countries like China that spread deadly viruses world wide, etc etc etc.

    Some were angry about Floyds death but it is no longer about that. That just simply morphed into an excuse. Just like what happened with the Wuhan virus.

  32. avatar John says:

    These damn socialist/communist lovers are always saying how great other nations are, so what needs to be done is this, mow them down with live machine gun fire just like a socialist country would do when protesting the government. Give them what they think they want.

  33. avatar Concerned Freeman says:

    War ning (pun intended),

    I’ve come to the rushed conclusion that the ATF is sharing your location with ANTIFA.
    They’ve shared your business location with the looters.
    Prepare. This evil Federal Leviathan wants you gone.

    Prove me wrong.

    1. avatar Biff says:

      You can take off your tinfoil hat.

      Anyone with access to Google can find the location of almost any business. There is no need to get that information from the ATF.

      1. avatar Dave G. says:

        “You can take off your tinfoil hat.”

        Biff, what makes you think THAT will help?

  34. avatar William Ashbless says:

    So, ‘just give the criminals what they want and pray they don’t take your life as well’ is the ATF’s stance.
    Not surprised.

  35. avatar James W Crawford says:

    Anyone who can google “gun shop” knows where most FFL stores are located. I have never seen a gun shop that tries to disguise itself. If the police do not control the rioters, your store will be looted unless you defend the place yourself. If you are not killed by the rioters, you will be proseciuted and the target of a lawsuit. Most gun shops are commercial tenants, so let your landlord worry about protecting their property.

    Given the situation, this is a prime time to sell your entire inventory at a significant markup. Honest citizens need guns and ammo, ASAP! Any guns and ammo that you can not sell should be relocated, probably to your home. Leave your ATF records properly secured in your store in a locked filing cabinet that is not fireproof.

  36. avatar Dale Menard says:

    So lock up your guns, but leave so the bad guys and gals can get them. Then you will be morally liable if not legally liable for the deaths that follow. This will be evidence that FFL’s cannot be trusted with selling guns since they did not do enough to stop the riot. And the government can close the gun stores.

    And they wonder why we “cling to our guns.”

  37. avatar Casey says:

    Is “I lost the records in a riot” the FFL equivalent of a boating accident?

  38. avatar Grim Reaper says:

    How the hell do you censor ANYBODY on this board, or on any board at TTAG, for any reason, when you have the ‘Chief Censor’ loon posting his comments in reply to just about every commenter on this TTAG article >

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/hearts-and-minds-minneapolis-police-shoot-pepperballs-at-residents-watching-from-their-doorways/ ???

    WTF is going on here. Can the censorship here become as bad as it is at Twitter and Facebook? Miner49er is as bad as CC or else they’re the same, and yet anything they write is posted.

    MADDMAXX says: May 31, 2020 at 11:24
    Chief Censor, 99% of TTAG readers agree that you are a moronic troll…..
    Reply

    avatar Miner49er says: May 31, 2020 at 12:10
    Hey, I’m in the 1% now!

  39. avatar SpeedBump says:

    Sure am glad I live in Nowhere, Texas.

    Only thing I’m dealing with at night is coyotes and drunkin fat women looking for men action.

    Meanwhile behind enemy lines – state governors are upset because protesters aren’t wearing a mask.

    Reckon it’s ok to rob, rape, and pillage so long as you are wearing a mask.

    The longer this criminal insanity goes on, the closer it becomes going hot. Once lead starts flying – then people will be begging to be at home on self imposed lock down orders again, and will joyfully curl up with their nasty germ filled CV mask and press on with hating Trump.

    All this another false flag because the CV Cooties didn’t reach the agenda objective?

    It’s starting to look that way. Bits and pieces of another emotional charged FF is starting to take form and shape.

    We shall soon see,,

    I’m wondering what operational plan the ATF will use to track down those criminals that raid the local gun shop? It’s not going to be Smooth Sailing considering all the peaceful rioters are working together in organized footstep. It almost seems they are all apart of an organized terrorist ring.

    Hmmm,

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