Anti-Lockdown Protests Grow With Some Protestors Showing Up Well-Armed

Protesters demonstrate at the state Capitol in Harrisburg, Pa., Monday, April 20, 2020, demanding that Gov. Tom Wolf reopen Pennsylvania’s economy even as new social-distancing mandates took effect at stores and other commercial buildings. (AP Photo/Matt Rourke)

The lockdown orders used to be about controlling the Coronavirus. In many places across America, it feels like the lockdown is now used to control the Deplorables. And Americans have taken to the streets to revolt, bringing their long guns in many instances.

In Pennsylvania, huge crowds formed to protest the continued lockdown as ordered by Governor Tom Wolf. From The New York Post:

Protesters demonstrate at the state Capitol in Harrisburg, Pa., Monday, April 20, 2020, demanding that Gov. Tom Wolf reopen Pennsylvania’s economy even as new social-distancing mandates took effect at stores and other commercial buildings. (AP Photo/Matt Slocum)

Hundreds of people openly defied a ban on mass gatherings and federal safety guidelines during a demonstration Monday against Pennsylvania’s coronavirus lockdown order.

Protesters rallied in front of the state Capitol in Harrisburg, where they crowded together on the steps and sidewalk in defiance of social distancing guidelines, recklessly dismissing their own health risk and the risk to others — many without even face masks, according to video posted on social media.

Some waved American and Revolutionary-era Gadsden, or “Don’t Tread on Me,” flags, wore Trump campaign gear and held hand-lettered signs that said “SOME PEOPLE WANT TO WORK” and attacked Democratic Gov. Tom Wolf as a “tyrant.”

Motorists also led a caravan of vehicles — many festooned with American and pro-Trump flags — past the protesters, honking their horns to cheers and applause.

Republican state Sen. Doug Mastriano, a retired US Army colonel, told those assembled that it was a “great day be an American in Pennsylvania” before leading them in reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.

The same happened in Kansas City, MO.


From the Daily Caller’s story about Kansas City, Missouri’s protest:

Protests once again occurred across the nation Monday, with protesters in Kansas City, Missouri facing off with counter-protesters who blocked traffic, and protesters in Pennsylvania carrying rifles and driving in a military truck.

Several anti-lockdown protesters, who appeared to be wearing colorful patterned shirts, arrived in a military-style truck, carrying heavy arms.

And Washington State…

Beranese Nel, left, hugs Justin Young, holding an police patrol-type rifle, at a protest opposing Washington state’s stay-home order to slow the coronavirus outbreak Sunday, April 19, 2020, in Olympia, Wash. (AP Photo/Elaine Thompson)

From the UK Independent:

More than 2,500 protesters descended on the Washington state capitol on Sunday to demand that governor Jay Inslee re-open the state’s economy and lift the stay-at-home order issued to slow the spread of coronavirus.

The rally, at which many attendees ignored advice to wear face masks, was centred on demands that Mr Inslee allow businesses shuttered on safety grounds to reopen, with many protesters arguing that state authorities’ order to close down their economies amounted to an attack on the freedoms fundamental to the US’s founding ideals.

Speaking to Reuters, one protester at the event in Olympia said that “Shutting down businesses by picking winners and losers in which there are essential and non-essential are violations of the state and federal constitution.”

His words echo those heard at similar protests that have sprung up in different states over the last week. At an event in Lansing, Michigan dubbed “Operation Gridlock”, signs on display included slogans including “liberty once lost is lost forever” and “security without liberty is called prison”. One placard in Olympia read “Jay Inslee = King George”.

Mr Trump has lately urged protesters defying stay-at-home orders to continue their rallies and “liberate” their states, but has been accused of potentially inciting violence against democratic governors who have issued stay-at-home orders in defiance of his calls to lift the lockdowns as soon as possible.

A lot of folks say that conservatives don’t get out and protest because they’re too busy working their jobs. But in this time of shut-downs, many of the people who make America work are sitting at home.  With each passing day, many are growing increasingly frustrated at what they see as senseless edicts by political leaders to stay home.

The Armageddon that so-called experts predicted has not come to pass. After initial estimates that 2.2 million Americans could die of the WuFlu, it’s looking like, with the help of social distancing, COVID-19 will kill fewer than an average flu season.

Americans are not, by nature, a patient people. With tens of millions thrown out of work, those outside the coronavirus hot spots like the New York metro area, New Orleans, Detroit and a few others are exercising their First Amendment rights — and sometimes their Second, too — to let it be known it’s past time to begin the re-opening process.

comments

  1. avatar KV says:

    If we utilize the numbers from the Spanish flu, no, it isn’t time to open yet. Yes, it hurts economically to be locked down right now. Let’s shoot for something better than instant gratification.

    “We find that cities that intervened earlier and more aggressively do not perform worse and, if anything, grow faster after the pandemic is over. Our findings thus indicate that NPIs not only lower mortality; they may also mitigate the adverse economic consequences of a pandemic.”

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3561560

    1. avatar Biatec says:

      Move to Europe then. If you believe in freedom the government should not be able to hit a switch and shut down the economy.

      It’s grotesque.

      Just don’t go out? Why the hell do other people get to decide the risks?

      1. avatar Steven Ford says:

        If the only risk would be personal, I would agree with you. But we put up with these “Greater Good” restrictions all the time, this one just hurts more. Whether it is a “Open Fire Ban or a DUI law, these types of regulations are just common sense reminders for the ones that weren’t born with any. This one just hurts more. People that openly (or secretly) defy the “social distancing” are not going to just “get sick” they are going to get their parents, grandparents, children, and friends sick. And in case you haven’t heard yet, COVID19 is a horrible way to die. https://www.propublica.org/article/a-medical-worker-describes–terrifying-lung-failure-from-covid19-even-in-his-young-patients

        1. avatar GS650G says:

          With no vaccine and no where to hide I guess we’re all just screwed then. and a year from now if this finally blows over another virus could come hopping down the walk and we go through it all over again.

          Maybe the best idea is to buy 40 acres in the middle of nowhere and live in the middle of it/.

        2. avatar Roh-Dog says:

          Go ahead, cry me two rivers.

        3. avatar Biatec says:

          That doesn’t make any sense. Don’t go out if you don’t want to get sick. It’s a choice. You can say it’s not as much as you want but it is.

          All you are doing is deciding whats best for everyone.

          It’s should all be up to the families. Saying “it’s common sense” doesn’t make it so. It’s pure tyranny. You don’t put forward full arguments. Compare it to other laws that are not even slightly similar. False equivalencies.

          You do you and leave other people alone. The government should not have this power. This is destroying the economy. I keep seeing those articles about food lines. It’s a freaking bread line. Call it what it is.

          There are people here who do social distance and ones who don’t. The only thing accomplished is the destruction of businesses and jobs. It’s tyranny.

          I will never accept this as common sense or in anyway what a freedom loving person would accept.

          This is true evil and it needs to end. We are really losing this country and it’s very disturbing.

          I’m sure I will get more replies of the same. It’s purely a philosophical view of freedom. Either you want freedom or you do not. There is no moderation with stuff like this. It should never be acceptable.

        4. avatar Hillbilly says:

          @ Steven Ford: Ah yes precrime, I hope you enjoy your slavery. The Founders of this country would of already been much more proactive over this stupidity.

          I will repeat this since slaves like you don’t understand the premise of freedom: There is no right to “public” safety. You are responsible for your safety and well being, not the Governement. Only those that wish to control others ie: slavery mask their intentions with words like common sense and for your own good.

        5. avatar Stephen Craig says:

          Two new studies out. First, sunlight kills Clovid. Second, pandemics spread faster when people are locked in. suddenly “the science” doesn’t support this tyranny.

        6. avatar Hugh Glass says:

          Personal responsibility, try it. People who are scared should stay home. Not sure all the guns help matters, though. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

        7. avatar troutbum5 says:

          Dying from pneumonia secondary to influenza or any number of other illnesses is also a horrible way to die. So are cancer, diabetes, heart attack, and many others. According to 3 recent studies, the number of people who have or have had covid is at least 50 times the confirmed number. That puts the infection and death rate in the US on par with influenza. Whether we back off of restrictions and cause a faster spike, or spread it out and destroy our economy, the same number of people will get sick and die from covid. Better to get it over with and preserve our economy. A lot more people will die if we collapse into a bad depression.

        8. avatar Jr says:

          Troutbum5 you said
          “Whether we back off of restrictions and cause a faster spike, or spread it out and destroy our economy, the same number of people will get sick and die from covid”

          That is absolutely wrong. There are limited hospital beds/respirators so the slower it spreads the less people will die.

        9. avatar Miner49er says:

          “ It’s purely a philosophical view of freedom.“

          Well there’s your problem, trying to use a philosophical approach on an actual public health issue.

          I’m sorry to inform you, biological pathogens are non-partisan and equal opportunity killers, and they care not for any particular philosophy.

        10. avatar Biatec says:

          @miner Incorrect. You can’t even discuss politics without talking about philosophical beliefs. The lockdowns violate property rights, the right to assemble and free speech.

          I advise you to move to Europe. Most people I know who live there don’t believe in rights either.

        11. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Explain to me why I shouldn’t, at this time, and I am right with you. I might anyway, but you have been honorable in advising me of the risk. But issuing me a COMMAND, one that the Constitution *specifically* prohibits you from issuing, and it makes me begin to think you need a little hanging. I realize these fools in government actually believe they are somehow entitled to dictate my actions, by dint of their superior whatever the fuck, but the Amendment process is open to them, and so far no one has modified the Constitution to allow it, therefore they may drop dead.

        12. avatar zerofoo says:

          Peanuts are tasty to some and lethal to others.

          We are not all the same – and there is no way to live life and eliminate the risk that others bring to your life.

          Just living our lives we raise the risk to those around us. We should not seek perfect safety at the cost of liberty.

        13. avatar David Jenkins says:

          Yes, respiratory failure is a horrible way to die. AND IT HAPPENS EVERY YEAR — E*V*E*R*Y Y*E*A*R — TO HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE from the flu. Studies from Standford University, LA County, Germany and others all show that COVID19 is no more lethal than the seasonal flu — less than some years in fact. This lockdown is not an exercise in safety, is it an exercise in TYRANNY, and if we don’t wake up to that fact, we will so have no rights whatsoever.

      2. avatar Miner49er says:

        “Why the hell do other people get to decide the risks?”

        Maybe because they have decades of training and experience dealing with biological agents and human medical treatment?

        And just how many people are you willing to infect in order to meet your personal economic goals?

        1. avatar Biatec says:

          Same arguments are used for gun control, hate speech laws and socialistic policy all the time. Maybe I am over estimating you though. No way you actually believe that?

          Not sure why you would think they are qualified to shut down an economy, infringe property rights, free speech, and right to assemble?

          I get the feeling I will just get a response from you describing a belief in privileges aka positive rights.

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Biatec, even that doesn’t adequately address the problem. I don’t even care if certain people are “qualified” to decide my risks for me, the fact is they do not have the damn authority to do so, such actions are absolutely prohibited under the BoR.

        3. avatar pwrserge says:

          You’re assuming facts not in evidence. If you’re concerned about being infected, feel free to stay home.

        4. avatar Hugh Glass says:

          “Maybe because they have decades of training and experience dealing with biological agents and human medical treatment?”

          Yeah, except they don’t, and they’ve proven they don’t know shit. But go ahead, hide.

        5. avatar SKP5885 says:

          Everyone. Darwin.

    2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      So you’re in support of these shutdowns? I’d really like to hear your argument as to why it’s okay for a government official to point to me and say “you are not allowed to work, and must remain in your home indefinitely until I say otherwise”, while allowing the people next to me to continue working. Even going by the now-famous “essential business” guidelines, if food, clothing, and shelter are essential to human life, then why are clothing stores closed, but pot stores open? Why have my medical appointments been cancelled or re-scheduled, but elective abortions continue? Why are we allowed to co-mingle amongst each other within the aisles of grocery stores, but walking in the park or on a beach (where you’ll be ten times as far away from anyone) is prohibited under threat of citation or arrest?

      Why are you allowing for the subjective selection of our liberties based upon the opinions of a very select few?

      1. avatar Paul says:

        You nailed the stupidest thing: grocery stores are open, but parks are closed. I can spend a day in many parks, and never come within a hundred feet of anyone at all. Even small city parks allow for people to maintain 20+ ft cordons around them. The grocery store? Phhht – you’re not maintaining 6 feet no matter how careful you are.

        1. avatar Dude says:

          Many small businesses that were forced to close could be made to be safer than grocery stores. The extent of the shutdown was absurd, and has ruined small businesses in record time.

        2. avatar Dude says:

          Don’t even get me started on the parks. I was out Saturday because it was a beautiful day. The parks and trails were as busy as I’ve ever seen them. No one was being arrested because the real wannabe dictators aren’t in charge here.

        3. avatar B-Rad says:

          What services do grocery stores provide to the community, and why would it be needed to be open?

        4. avatar Templar says:

          Parks require maintenance and hence staff.

      2. avatar st1100boy says:

        As much as anything else, it’s the arbitrary nature of the rules that burns me. I know in Missouri, car dealers are open. Liquor stores are open (and I like my booze), even bicycle shops. I’m telling you now, not too many people bicycle to work in Cape Girardeau.

      3. avatar Chris T in KY says:

        The NYC subway system continues to operate. Millions of riders each day. So the Chinese Flue knows to stay off the trains???

        And a mom and pop business must stay closed???

        1. avatar Stan Darsh says:

          I can’t remember who originally sent me this, but you may enjoy it:
          When the State tells you it’s safe to go to Home Depot to buy a sponge but dangerous to go and buy a drill, it’s not about your health.

          When the State shuts down millions of private businesses but doesn’t lay off a single government employee, it’s not about your health.

          When the State bans dentists because its unsafe, but deems abortion visit is safe, it’s not about your health.

          When the State prevents you from buying tomato seeds because it’s dangerous, but allows in-person lottery ticket sales, it’s not about your health.

          When the State tells you it’s dangerous to go golf or fish alone or be in a motor boat alone, but the Governor can get his stage make up done, and hair done for 5 TV appearances a week, it’s not about your health.

          When the state puts you IN a jail cell you for walking in a park with your child because it’s too dangerous but lets criminals OUT of jail cells for their health- It’s not about YOUR health!

          When the state tells you it’s too dangerous to get treated by a physical therapist yet deems a pot store essential- It’s not about your health!

          When the State lets you go to the grocery store or hardware store but is demanding mail-in voting, ITS NOT ABOUT YOUR HEALTH.

        2. avatar Southern Cross says:

          SD, the CV19 restrictions are a classic case of making law on the go without considering full impacts and outcomes. Even logic and common sense is ignored.

          While the aim is cut transmission vectors the implementation is decidedly ham-fisted.

        3. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          +1

          Like it. I’m going to copy this to show someone (non-TTAG).

    3. avatar Shire-man says:

      Screw it. If this is thrice as bad as the Spanish flu, so what?
      People bitch about lack of housing, lack of high paying jobs, lack of healthcare, pension debt killing generations of upward mobility, welfare state growth and collapse.
      A lot of problems real and imaginary would lose their heft if we simply remained business as usual and let the weak perish. As nature intended. We’d come out the other side lean, mean and running strong. Now we’ll come out the other side poorer, dependent, angry and with a few shiny new additions onto the police state.

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        I’m staunchly against these shutdowns as they’ve been applied to us, but something you wrote raises an eyebrow:

        “…let the weak perish.”

        I assume your definition of “weak” is anyone less than “you” on the sliding scale, yes? You may not hold a public office, but you’re a tyrant nonetheless. Glad you’re not in charge of policy decisions that affect the infirmed, the handicapped, and the unborn (the very “weakest” of them all).

      2. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

        “Now we’ll come out the other side poorer, dependent, angry…”

        It’s the more dependent part that scares me.

        Every day this goes on as it is now the Leftists are tightening their grip on us all. I’m not turning down my 1,200 Trump bucks, but I’m fully aware there’s a dear price to pay down the road for it…

      3. avatar Ron says:

        And what if it kills you shire man? You can be culled by this plague too.

        1. avatar Joseph Quixote says:

          Let the weak perish? Sounds a lot like old Adolf. Guess what, someday your body will follow your already weak cognitive ability. According to yourself, no big loss.

        2. avatar Shire-man says:

          So be it.
          Destroying a nations economy and ushering in a dystopic police state for generations isn’t worth it.

          This virus isn’t going away and even if it did there will be others.

          Forest fires are cleansing and make the land stronger.

        3. avatar Shire-man says:

          Saying nature should take its course in a free society is a far cry from declaring a people inferior and rounding them up for extermination.

    4. avatar Will says:

      I will NOT give up my CONSTITUTIONALLY protected rights. F*co your feelings and one size fits all solution to a pandemic that has only had 6 confirmed cases in my county.
      The lock down is doing more harm with assaults, suicides and overdoses.

    5. avatar Batterycap says:

      You are ignoring the actual numbers – on purpose no doubt. From your presumed perch where you seek to be thought of as the “I C care The Most” winner, you have zero idea that the facts on the ground completely eviscerate your embarrassingly flawed positions. Since you have an impenetrable barrier to the assimilation of data, at least go and learn of the “Rule of Holes”. Hint – quit digging.

      1. avatar Hillbilly says:

        Ispewnonstopbullshit.

        FIFY Batterycrap.

    6. avatar GluteusMaximus says:

      This is nothing like the Spanish Flu. Feel free to self isolate as long as you wish.

    7. avatar John Hull says:

      Covid-19 is NOT the Spanish Flu. Not even close. The flu is indiscriminate in who it kills, 99% of those killed by covid-19 are over 60 and have other health issue that compromise their ability to fight it off. But even then, the death rate is below that of the flu. That doesn’t take into account the fact that we have some medical remedies that make covid surviveable even for the older folks if administered right away. All of that, however, is moot. The only way to defeat this is to develop herd immunity like we have with just about every other major disease that afflicts homo sapiens. So, I go along with opening things up as much as possible to get us back on track.

      1. avatar Southern Cross says:

        With an average 5% death rate among the infected, that is still a lot of deaths. While the elderly are the most affected, children as young as 5 are known to have died and the infection rate among 20-40 year olds is the highest of any age group. This is not a mere flu. Those who’ve had the CV19 and survived describe it as something more like malaria in the affects.

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          SC, those computations are meaningless, since no one has any real idea how many people have been exposed to the virus, some estimates say the published figures of “infected” need to be multiplied by 50 or even 100 to get close to accuracy, which would bring the risk of death down to around .001. And we should recall that the world is overcrowded in a way that people in 1918 would not be able to even imagine, if we lost 18 million or a billion, particularly those with severe conditions already, it would be difficult to actually believe that is a catastrophe. Conversely, look up some historical data on the Great Depression sometime, that is not something we wish to repeat.
          For what it’s worth, I’m 73, morbidly obese, smoked for 40 years, and have had open heart surgery, and my bride has cancer. My situation does not affect my ability to observe the reality around me.

        2. avatar Mister Fleas says:

          “With an average 5% death rate among the infected, that is still a lot of deaths.”

          The death among the infected is no where near 5%. Two White House reporters were caught on camera discussing the outbreak. Here is the transcript:

          Reporter 1:LA County public health came out with a study. They found that
          7k cases in California but really believe that there are anywhere between 221,000 to 442,000 people who were infected.

          Reporter 2:Really?

          Reporter 1:Yeah

          Reporter 2: So that makes it 0.1, 2 0 .3?

          Reporter 2: Does the study (inaudible)

          Reporter 1: Yeah it just came out today

          Reporter 1: So it suggests that patient fatality rate is a tenth of what it seems to be

          Reporter 3: Wow! Which puts its right in line with the flu

          Yeah exactly..thats what it is

          So its a hoax?

          I don’t think it was a hoax

          (Laughing)

          And here is the link:

          https://twitter.com/Goldstatetimes/status/1252390291018878979

    8. avatar Waylon says:

      Agreed. Never thought I’d be here agreeing with Miner, but y’all go have fun with this protest. Go out and get infected, and spread the disease. When you’re dead, you won’t be able to vote for Trump in November and Biden will win. Remember this disease kills the elderly quite easily, and the elderly tend to vote conservative.

      1. avatar James Campbell says:

        “When you’re dead, you won’t be able to vote for Trump in November and Biden will win. Remember this disease kills the elderly quite easily, and the elderly tend to vote conservative.”
        Last time I saw the death toll figures by region, it’s clear the Kung Flu is killing the Biden voters.
        Almost every Trump voter moved out of NYC over a decade ago.

        1. avatar John Hull says:

          First, Biden isn’t going to win. Even Democrats are saying that. Second, hiding in your house isn’t going to make covid-19 go away. Credible sources estimate that public exposure is well in excess of 50% of the population, the vast majority of which don’t know they even have it. Herd immunity must be established to have any chance of controlling this thing in the future.

    9. avatar Thixotropic says:

      Pure Crap. No worse that the regular flu with about a 5% mortality rate mostly the old and infirmed with compromised immune systems.

      This is the Globalist Plan for the PLANNEDEMIC. To scare the hell out of people and spread panic and ignorance.

      ALL of the models, just like the AGW models, so far have been WAY OFF and serve the Globalist Masters that had them made by the complicit and corrupt WHO and CDC.

      Unpredictive Models=GIGO

      1. avatar Ron says:

        I’ve been anti globalization since before it was cool. And this pandemic would never, ever, not in a million years be anything the pro globalization faction would want. Not ever. This pandemic is in fact the perfect antithesis to globalization. This pandemic will lead to greater support, across the world, for stricter border controls, tougher trade laws, tougher immigration laws, and greater support for self sufficient economies and more sovereignty. In Europe, even the most hardcore EU supporters are speaking of the death of schengen from this plague.

        I really don’t get why the right doesn’t seem to understand this.

        Right now y’all are clamoring for “things to go back to normal” When right now is our perfect chance to strike at the heart of liberalism, which is globalization. We can use this event to take back control of our borders, seas, infrastructure, and sovereignty. Instead y’all seem helol bent on demanding what will be seen as rescue from the hand of the global economy that you appear dependent on. Let’s instead use this opportunity to show the globalists we don’t need them, and we sure as hell don’t need China.

    10. avatar frank speak says:

      Wolf would have fared better if he hadn’t arrogantly chosen to close the liquor stores…when the surrounding states didn’t…widespread disgust with that laid the seed of the current dissent…which now seems to be spreading out into other areas…

    11. avatar Mitch says:

      Have fun getting infected idiots. This disease is real no matter what Alex Jones is telling you.

  2. avatar Dude says:

    There are already class action lawsuits being filed against China. Could they be filed against state and local governments for shutting down business, and be successful?

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Certainly more successful than suing China! We and China have laws and treaties which do not allow our citizens to sue the other’s country in our courts. Lawyers taking money for a pretense of a class action against China should be disbarred and then prosecuted for fraud.

  3. avatar B-Rad says:

    “The Armageddon that so-called experts predicted has not come to pass. After initial estimates that 2.2 million Americans could die of the WuFlu, it’s looking like, with the help of social distancing, COVID-19 will kill fewer than an average flu season.”

    Yeah, 2.2M if we did nothing, we didn’t do nothing, and the estimates of 100k to 250k by August 4th are looking pretty likely, since we’re at 43k deaths. That’s what being successful in action looks like. We’ve been over 25k to 35k new cases a day for 3 weeks, and we’re at 1.5k-2.5k deaths a day for that 3 weeks. It appears to be plateauing with the social distancing. Just because it’s not armageddon, doesn’t mean it’s good.

    So in 10 days, 20k new deaths, even if we’re on a downward trend, the next 30 days will be another 20k, etc. So 100k is eminently likely.

    Plus, it’s already worse than an average flu season, in the last 10 years the least deaths in a flu season was 12k, the most 61k, with an average of 38k. 43k in 10 weeks is more than 38k in 30 weeks, the flu season.

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      I followed all that you said above, but I have a genuine question about the final part. We may very well see 100K+ deaths from COVID-19 when this is all said and done, but how do we know how this virus historically compares to others? Are reports of the “common” annual flu reported in the same manner, under the same parameters, by the same countries and/or entities? In other words, if you say “the common flu results in 60K deaths per year”, how do we know it wouldn’t really be reflected as 100K+ if the reporting methods were exactly the same?

      Also, a news report was recently announced on the (Los Angeles area) radio in which doubt was cast on the COVID-19 reporting. According to the investigation, any death in which the deceased tested positive for the virus – regardless whether or not it was the actual cause of death – has been reported to the CDC as COVID-19 related and added to the JHU map. This muddies the waters.

      1. avatar Cthulhu 2020 says:

        This ^^^

      2. avatar B-Rad says:

        “In other words, if you say “the common flu results in 60K deaths per year”, how do we know it wouldn’t really be reflected as 100K+ if the reporting methods were exactly the same?”

        A) The average year is 38k, not 60k. Last year was 34,200.
        B) If you’re not going to believe the CV-19 numbers, why believe the flu numbers? Maybe they’re exaggerating that too, maybe they’re exaggerating auto fatalities.
        C) Data is data, it has value, but what the value is, and what you do with it are not up to the data. It’s blatantly obvious that this thing is moderately to extremely more contagious than the flu, and has a moderately to extremely higher mortality rate. I think it’s exponentially more contagious, but only moderately higher mortality, roughly 3x. But those are multipliers. In all cases, it’s not “The Flu” whichever flu from whichever year.

        As for a call in radio station, I’ll take that with a grain of salt. People are definitely dying of X and also have CV-19, but the counter is true as well, moderately symptomatic people are dying at home, and will never be counted because they’ll never be tested. If anything, the actual numbers are probably somewhat higher, but they are what we have.

        If people want to protest, although actually seeing the protests, I’m not sure exactly what the message is, go on then. I wish they’d actually do a modicum of preparation, they don’t appear to believe they can get it, or pass it on to their family, friends, or neighbors. They seem to be missing some basic common sense, acting like it’s all a giant joke or conspiracy, but what if it’s not, and it’s half as bad as reported? Screaming in each others faces from 1 foot away is a pretty good way to make sure you spread it around.

        1. avatar Lugnut says:

          Your flippant responses from your false perch of knowledge is embarrassing obvious to all – but you. You don’t know why they are protesting? It’s all pretty obvious, except to you. Your determination to propagandize and dismiss any that disagree with you is at bet – lame.

        2. avatar B-Rad says:

          Please, correct the record, be specific.

        3. avatar Porridgeweasel says:

          Considering the hot mic vid that just came out recently prior to a CDC/Trump update, I’d ask a question of you that you are asking everyone else to provide an answer for:

          “and has a moderately to extremely higher mortality rate. I think it’s exponentially more contagious, but only moderately higher mortality, roughly 3x”

          Can you please provide us with a source for this part of your statement?

        4. avatar B-Rad says:

          Transmission
          CV-19 R0 value of 5.7 (95% CI 3.8–8.9)
          Seasonal Flu R0 value of 1.3

          Mortality
          CV-19 value of 2.3% (In NYC the fatality rate out of the entire population, is 0.12% of the entire population, not tested, not suspected, entire population, everyone)
          Seasonal Flu value of 0.1%

          So according to the CDC, it is 4.4X more infectious, and 23X more deadly.

          My suspicion is that the R0 is actually higher, maybe much higher, but the mortality rate is actually lower, probably much lower, but still significantly higher than the flu. If the R0 is actually 15, and the mortality is only .5, it’s really really bad. Even if the mortality rate is only the same as the flu, the significantly higher transmission rate, makes it really really bad too.

        5. avatar Miner49er says:

          Good show, B-Rad, these are all truths that needs spoken.

          In WV, the infection rate is running over 4% of those tested, and mortality rate is 2.8% of those who tested positive.

          If you doubt these numbers, go to WV metro news, which has a statistical counter with their C19 reporting.

      3. avatar Hugh Glass says:

        Hit by a car? Covid-19. Heart attack? Covid-19. Suicide? Covid-19. I see.

        1. avatar B-Rad says:

          That’s cute, you’re cute.

          Now, what do you see, be specific?

        2. avatar Miner49er says:

          There are many C19 deaths that are not being counted, as well as those who were infected but were able to survive at home. I had C19, three days of fever and delirium followed by two weeks of weakness and congestion. I’m fine now, but I was never tested and will not make the data, as I suspect many relatively healthy people will.

          There are also many folks who are dying of C 19 but we’re never tested and will not be counted. In my state, no corner or medical examiner has a test to determine if the deceased died of C19 so those numbers will go unharvested.

          But please, point out where B-Rad made a mistake or cited an incorrect data point, please be specific.

          Otherwise, it appears you’re talking out your ass.

        3. avatar Hugh Glass says:

          How about you soak your head in butter and ram it up a dead cow’s ass. Specifically.

        4. avatar B-Rad says:

          That’s nice.

          But how about facts, do you have any of those? One of those? Do you know what those are?

        5. avatar Joseph Quixote says:

          B-rad. So when is enough enough? 20 million people are out of work. You are obviously deathly afraid of the China covid. But without work we as a country are rapidly headed towards another Great Depression. Hate to break it to you but it requires work to make the country run. Much more of this “fix” and all bets are off.
          At least in the 1930s people were God fearing and moral. Today hell many lefties only reality is the atheistic here and now so if they have to stomp on grandma for that toilet paper well right makes right.
          And just stop with covid being worse than the flu. Every once in awhile the flu pulls 1918. That flu is exponentially worse in every way. Guess what, it could mutate and do it again.

    2. avatar TommyGNR says:

      70000 died in the 2017 flu season. Bottom line is the lockdown and social distancing is not sustainable. It isn’t saving anyone from getting infected or dying, it’s just pushing back the date. A virus gets under control when enough of the population has been exposed such that people have either developed immunity or died. Then the virus doesn’t have any hosts to jump to anymore

      1. avatar B-Rad says:

        What is the time period of the flu season?

        1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          Typically October to May. Per the CDC’s definition.

          https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season/flu-season.htm

        2. avatar B-Rad says:

          And how long has it been since the first CV-19 death in the US?

        3. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          In late February, per the CDC. Easily found via the Interwebz in less than ten seconds if you know how to use a keyboard. Do we have to do all your work for you?

          https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0229-COVID-19-first-death.html

        4. avatar B-Rad says:

          So is comparing 43k people in 2 months comparable to 70k in 7 months?

      2. avatar B-Rad says:

        Also, is there are vaccine for said flu in the 30 week flu season? Do you get the flu one year, and get it again a few years later?

        The country, world, has basically shut down and it’s still higher than the average flu season, 10 weeks in.

        Spanish Flu (From Kansas) killed 50-150M people, it was “just the flu” too.

      3. avatar Miner49er says:

        B-Rad, I am concerned you may be casting your pearls before swine.

        You are interacting with individuals who receive their news from ‘experts’ like Hannity and Rush.

        Rush Limbaugh, on February 24:

        “Folks, this coronavirus thing, I want to try to put this in perspective for you. It looks like the coronavirus is being weaponized as yet another element to bring down Donald Trump. Now, I want to tell you the truth about the coronavirus. You think I’m wrong about this? You think I’m missing it by saying that’s… Yeah, I’m dead right on this. The coronavirus is the common cold, folks.”

        In other news:

        “The Defense Department has been tasked with providing 85 refrigerated trucks and 100,000 body bags to assist state health agencies with mortuary affairs due to the coronavirus pandemic.
        The requests, made by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), come as the White House revealed this week that as many as 240,000 Americans could die from the virus.”

      4. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Lockdown and social distancing are intended to avoid horrendous quantities of deaths due to the health system collapsing. Spreading out the infections over a longer period of time allows for treatment of the ill and disposal of the dead without societal collapse as well. I suspect we will find the actual mortality possibilities have been wildly exaggerated, though my sons disagree to the point they won’t let me out of the house unless I whine.

        1. avatar Miner49er says:

          Your sons are good boys who are telling the truth, and they care about you. Heed their advice, please.

      5. avatar frank speak says:

        which seems to be what happened in 1918….eventually it just seems to run out of hosts…

    3. avatar Dude says:

      “Yeah, 2.2M if we did nothing, we didn’t do nothing”

      Your first mistake was assuming that the 2.2M figure was correct to begin with. Please prove that. Next, when have we ever done nothing? Of course we would do something. We could have pulled through this without destroying so many businesses.

      An interesting take:
      “They will claim that their heroic recommendations averted total calamity. Unfortunately, they will be wrong; and Sweden, which has done almost no mandated social distancing, will probably prove them wrong.”

      https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-response-sweden-avoids-isolation-economic-ruin/

      1. avatar pwrserge says:

        Sweden is not a good analogue for the US. There is no country that’s a good analogue for the US. Don’t forget that Sweden has a lower population than quite a few US states with far more geographic separation.

        1. avatar Dude says:

          Then it seems like many states could have followed the Sweden model instead of the New York model.

        2. avatar GuyInWI says:

          Brown County Wisconsin is roughly the same size as Oahu and has roughly the same number of Coronavirus cases. Unlike Oahu we can’t decide who comes in and out yet have roughly the same amount of cases. This is nothing more than fear at its finest and the herd mentality.

        3. avatar pwrserge says:

          Guy… I don’t know if you’ve been to Oahu, but most of the Island is not populated at all. The local population density there is much higher than in the back woods of Wisconsin.

        4. avatar pwrserge says:

          Dude, some states did. For some it makes sense, for other states, not so much. I would say that it doesn’t even necessarily make sense to have county-wide policies.

          Sweden is not NYC or Chicago.

          An emergency freeze policy makes sense… in an emergency… when you’re talking about more than a week or two, it’s not an emergency anymore, it’s policy.

        5. avatar GuyInWI says:

          @ Powerbottom: You do know Brown County is where Green Bay is located? It’s also where you get loads of tourists from all over the world for the Green Bay Packers. You miss the point as always but about on par for you. Hawaii is locked down literally. If this KungFlu was as bad as they predicted the numbers should be huge here on the mainland. Sweden is an excellent example this is much ado about nothing. We do not sacrifice rights under the guise of public safety even temporarily.

        6. avatar pwrserge says:

          Yeah… Not how population density works cupcake. Go back to school. Clearly you missed out on some book learning.

        7. avatar B-Rad says:

          “If this KungFlu was as bad as they predicted the numbers should be huge here on the mainland.”

          815k (Tested and confirmed cases) 43,796 deaths less than 3 months in. Are those small, large, huge? The administration estimated 100k-250k by August 4th, looks pretty much right on at this point. And this is with 97% of people under stay at home orders.

          What do you think will happen when it’s 90%, 50%, or never was implemented?

        8. avatar Ralph says:

          pwserge, Sweden is not a good analogue for the US, but Japan is. Compare their numbers to ours. And compare Tokyo to NYC. Then explain why we shut everything down, Japan didn’t, and they’re doing an order of magnitude better then us.

        9. avatar John Hull says:

          Japan is closer to the US than Sweden is in financial terms, but don’t think they’re in such great shape either. There are also societal factors at play in Japan due to their cultural history that have a great effect on how things are done that we don’t have to worry about here. Their economy has been flat for a long time as a result. If you want to compare us to another country, Germany and the UK are a lot closer to the US in the way things are done in a business and financial sense.

        10. avatar Ralph says:

          #John Hull, Japan is in fantastic shape. Japan has 11,512 coronavirus cases and 281 deaths. There are neighborhoods in NYC that are doing worse.

        11. avatar pwrserge says:

          Going to disagree with you there. Japanese culture IS NOT American culture. They pretty much LIVE what we would consider social distancing.

    4. avatar LD Huckstadt says:

      ALL GOOD POINTS

  4. avatar D.B. Cooper says:

    The Left wants the economy to be irreparable. It is their best chance to take back power finally and ultimately in November and also finally sets the stage for their long-sought goal of Cloward-Piven

    1. avatar GS650G says:

      It’s the 1932 playbook. Joe as savior. Big government paying the bills. Everyone doing what they are told.

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        Or consider the more sinister conspiratorial play:

        Joe Biden wins the presidency (I know, I know, he’s a muppet, but stay with me for a moment) with Michelle Obama as his VP, a political strategy that scooped up votes from the disheveled but re-energized Left. A short time after taking office, he openly acknowledges his mental decline and formally steps down, accepting a token position in a smaller – though financially lucrative – capacity and fades from public scrutiny. Michelle then becomes President for the duration of the term until 2024, at which time she can run for office on her own campaign for two more terms. In other words, she can (potentially) sit in the Oval Office for almost twelve years, until Jan 2037. And we’d see Barry bring her coffee with a big smile on his face.

        Yikes!

        Hence the utmost importance of Trump’s judicial appointments that will outlive his term. Speaking of which, how’s ‘ol RBG doing today?

        1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          EDIT…meant to type “until Jan 2033”. Maff is hard.

        2. avatar GS650G says:

          The only flaw in that plan is Biden himself. I don’t see him standing aside. I do see the aparatus that went after Don for 3 years doing everything they can to take him down. Once out of the way the world’s second most admired woman would take over. Oprah as their first admired can be SoS.
          Joe doesn’t realize the snake pit DC has become. They no longer take instruction they make up their own. They are going to roll him like a drunk. His friends are gone and people he trusts now whisper behind his back. Caesar had it better.
          The election is 6 months out. We’ll see his VP pick shortly and then we can analyze their options. But first they have to win and quite a few blue states are plenty pissed at their governors and mayors right now. I don’t think they will blame Don as much as the Chinese and whichever socialist is telling them to be unemployed.
          It’s going to go from saving us in a disaster to a disaster we need saving from.

        3. avatar Rick James says:

          I hate that you put this thought into my head.

        4. avatar Porridgeweasel says:

          I don’t think for a moment that Joe is the actual intended pick. He is the bait in the Bait n’ Switch.

          We haven’t been introduced to the “Switch” yet and I’m guessing that it’s someone that hasn’t even been in the running at this point. (Possibly Obama Woman) The Democratic party has made it clear that they have NO boundaries in getting what they want for the last 4+ years and they won’t stop now.

        5. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Haz, I am pretty sure Biden would have to serve considerable time in office for his VP to then be able to run twice. Not POSITIVE, but pretty sure.

      2. avatar Miner49er says:

        So why did we need saved in 1932?

        Oh that’s right, the complete collapse of the financial and banking industry in 1929.

        And why did the banking industry and economy collapse in 1929?

        Oh yes, two crony capitalist Republican presidents, Coolidge and Hoover, whose laissez-faire no regulation policies led to the collapse of our economy.

        Praise providence that FDR came along and pulled our bacon out of the fire, I’m hoping Joe Biden can do the same.

        It’s clear Trump and his team of robber barons are in over their heads, all they understand is how to enrich themselves at the citizens expense.

        “Why don’t we just take the guns now and worry about the courts later.“ D. Trump

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Assumes facts not in the historical record. Modern analysis shows that FDRs policy extended the Great Depression by almost a full decade.

        2. avatar Miner49er says:

          “Modern analysis shows that FDRs policy extended the Great Depression by almost a full decade.”

          You are making an assertion without entering any facts or citations into evidence.

          But let’s just say you are right for the sake of argument.

          Your complaint is that after the two Republican presidents ran our economy into the ditch FDR and the Democrats didn’t get it out as fast as you would’ve liked?

          That’s a complaint I also heard after Obama was elected. George Bush and the Republican controlled Congress ran our economy into the ground in 2007-2008, then it was the complaint that Obama was taking too long to get us back out of the ditch.

          Why don’t you guys just quit putting the economy in the ditch so we could all make a little money and get along?

        3. avatar pwrserge says:

          I hate to break this to you, but the mortgage crisis can be laid squarely at the feet of Bubba Clinton and his HUD policies. He strong armed banks into giving loans they knew they would lose money on. (No bank issues a loan where they would lose money without coercion) The banks did what they could to minimize those losses. The bill came due in 2007/2008.

          As for the “Great Depression”… that was a combination of factors WELL beyond the impact of previous administrations. Just because a landmine went off when a certain president was in office, doesn’t mean he was responsible for putting it there. The point is that FDR’s policies hurt far more than they helped and modern scholars have proven that fact beyond a shadow of a doubt. (Setting aside FDR’s blatant disregard for the Constitution of the United States, the rule of law, and basic human rights of US citizens.)

        4. avatar GS650G says:

          The economy largely recovered by 1932. By 1934 gold was worth 90% less in a single day because FDR decided 20.66 was a nice price for gold. He was a dictator who took advantage of the country and people still worship him today. No wonder he’s on the dime.

        5. avatar jwm says:

          Of course you praise fdr, miner. He put Americans in concentration camps based solely on race. You are also a supporter of the margeret sanger plan of genocide of poc.

          All you fascist think alike. Hate and the bullet are your only answers.

        6. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          @GS650G,

          The price of gold was $20.67 per troy ounce for the first century and a half of this country’s history. FDR changed it to $35.00 overnight on April 5, 1933 (less than three months after he took office) via Executive Order 6102, which is a reduction of approximately 40% of its purchasing power.

        7. avatar Ad astra says:

          And don’t forget St. FDR also decided that all us plebs shouldn’t be able to own gold either.

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      It took me years to finally realize it, but Obama deliberately sought to cripple or kill the US economy with every decision he made. Similarly, he also sought to leave Israel helpless before muslim attacks. And to insert a pry bar between races within US borders and move us ever in the direction of a race war. Trump’s efforts to bring the world together in a cumbaya moment in time are constantly referred to as the insane ramblings of a stupid, lying racist, without any evaluation of whatever he may have said, that’s not necessary, we are certain he is Trump. The goal seems to be to bring the country to its knees in order to take over completely and forever, in the glorious tradition of Cuba and Venezuela.

  5. avatar Matt in Oklahoma says:

    They might have had weapons but they needed spell check. One of them had police spelled polis in kolorado.
    The 4″ American Flagged high heels would look great
    on my shoulders

    1. avatar JD says:

      Maybe you should look up the Governor of Colorado

      1. avatar Matt in Oklahoma says:

        Ahh I see. Well that makes better sense.
        Good education.

    2. avatar Anymouse says:

      “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remain all doubt.” I bet Matt would really like to be able to delete posts.

      1. avatar Matt in Oklahoma says:

        Nope I’m fine

      2. avatar Matt in Oklahoma says:

        I can admit mistakes man. My ego ain’t that big.
        I was uniformed and wrong. There screen shot it.

  6. avatar GS650G says:

    Most of the shutdowns were done by democrats and hopefully they pay the price for it. The media will try to pin this on Don but he’s done a good job managing a bad situation with no easy answer. This is a war we are in and the left is rooting for the wrong things. Even FDRs enemies put their differences aside to provide hope during ww2. Don’t look for inspiration in the media today.

    1. avatar enuf says:

      “The Donald” has done a horrible job in this pandemic, and continues to fuck it up with each daily news conference. Not the least of which was in his claimed shutdown of travel from China. That is a wild distortion, his order left so many loopholes that tens of thousands of people entered the USA from China, without being tested or quarantined.

      Forget sides in this thing, there is massive failure to lead or even accept the full weight of science coming from both sides.

      And yes, I fully agree that a great strength of FDR during his years was his ability to lead Americans inspirationally to defeat the foes of his era.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        fdr’s great leadership lead to American citizens being rounded up based on race alone and put in concentration camps.

        1. avatar enuf says:

          Correct. Along with a long list of excellent decisions and outstanding leadership, he also had some massive fuck-ups. Tried to pack the Supreme Court and incarcerated West Coast Japanese, allowing their homes and businesses to be stolen out from under them.

          That’s history.

      2. avatar GS650G says:

        What did he do wrong? What didn’t he do right? How could he, WITH THE INFORMATION HE HAD AT EACH STAGE, have done things differently? His press conferences are pure Trump, like it or not. At least we are getting daily updates, the dems would keep us in the dark as much as possible to save face and take advantage of the crisis.

        Maybe its just easier to say he did a shitty job and that we can’t wait for Joe to take over next year.

        1. avatar Southern Cross says:

          The president operates more-or-less less in a vacuum reliant on information from advisors or briefing notes.

      3. avatar Roh-Dog says:

        How do FDR’s boots taste?
        He elongated what could have been a slight market correction into the (now) second worst catastrophuck in market history.
        Let Freedom ring.

      4. avatar Prndll says:

        Nothing you just said makes me feel like Joe Biden or any Democrat should hold the office of president.

      5. avatar pwrserge says:

        I always love how the Demokkkommies lionize the only US president to set up racial concentration camps. Gets the old noggin jogging.

        1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          Yes, that unfortunately did happen. Executive Order 9066.

      6. avatar Ing says:

        Forget the “full weight of science” in this thing, too. The science we’re all supposed to be following has the exact same weight as a ton of crap.

        They don’t know what they’d like us to think they know. They’re pulling guesses out of their ass — mine have been just as accurate — and not a single one of their infection models, even the ones that are based on what happened last week, bears any resemblance to what’s actually happening.

        So yeah, based on what’s been happening to people with extra risk factors, I’m being careful (cause I don’t want to die of suffocation), and I hope everyone else would be, too. Unfortunately, what’s mostly happening here is fear of the unusual and unknown — which is leading a lot of people to forget what is usual and known about the way people and governments behave when power goes to their head.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          If you could figure out a reliable infection model for a country with the size and structural diversity of the US, you’d get a Nobel. At times, we have to act on the best available information. Especially when there is evidence that the best available information is being softballed by a country that wants to see us all dead. Once better information is available you adjust your thinking and your response.

        2. avatar B-Rad says:

          Data is important, science is important. They inform responses and policy.

          If you choose to not believe the data, or the science, or believe IN either. That’s a different thing. If we don’t have effective treatment outside of IV delivery and palliative support, and we don’t get a vaccine for years, then this is going to be a new basic reality, Covid season, what do we do now?

          What do you believe? Is CV-19 a real thing?
          Are people dying of it?
          Is it more or less infectious than “the flu”
          Is it more or less likely to kill the infected?
          What do you think the appropriate response is, be specific?

          For me, testing testing testing, if you’re positive stay the eff home for 2 weeks. Since we can’t do surveillance testing yet, I’m OK with staying home, but me being OK with it isn’t the same as my sister or BIL, since I’ve been a remote, or plane based, worker for 30 years, and they install floors in people’s houses. I want to see the data used to make sure my sister, my nephews, my 80 year old mom with COPD, are protected, not from themselves, but from uninformed or willfully ignorant infecting them, or infecting someone who does. My mom is going to die, relatively soon, but I’d like to spend a bit more time with her.

        3. avatar Ing says:

          Exactly right.

          I’m fine with acting on the best available information — not so much with the “don’t question your betters” attitude that seems to come along with every mention of science in the public sphere. I’m no scientist, but I’m also not a moron, and I can usually tell when money and politics are driving the bus instead.

          I’m also thinking about what you said above: when it goes on long enough, it’s no longer emergency response, it’s policy. It might be time we started worrying about that.

      7. avatar Manse Jolly says:

        Dude!

        Get somebody to take your keys already.

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Current in the news is that Trump has no authority, the governors make all decisions, then the fed govt has to pay all the bills for the governors’ brilliance, and if anything goes wrong it will (of course) be all Trump’s fault. And they may just get away with it!! The situation is confusing, the lies don’t help, and many Americans are so incredibly stupid that they believe there is “free stuff” somewhere.

  7. avatar enuf says:

    The carrying of firearms is fine by me. Both a natural right and a Constitutionally enumerated right.

    The protesting critical guidelines in a pandemic with over 42,000 confirmed deaths among our own citizens is fucking delusional, reckless .

    The issuing of executive orders, decrees and unconstitutional commands is a failure of leadership and a completely convincing argument for instantaneous impeachment, conviction and removal from office.

    Were politicians leading inspirationally, calling Americans to fight this thing together, that would be deserving of praise. That would be Leadership. But in a time as critical and equal to calling a population to work as one in a time of War, our leaders are failing to comprehend what Leadership is about, what AMERICANISM is all about.

    For that failure hell yes people should be pissed.

    And while pissed and planning to boot out said politicians, do so while following all guidelines on defeating COVID-19 and saving lives.

    What? Did you think that life would be simple?

    1. avatar jwm says:

      The dems, like you, suffer from TDS. They would rather see the nation in flames than cooperate with Trump. Laying the blame at his feet alone is blind ignorance.

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        Well, I suppose if we all continue following the guidelines, we can wear masks while protesting to placate TPTB and foil the facial recognition drones hovering above, yes? 🙂

        1. avatar former water walker says:

          Works for me haz! And we have real m95 masks. Leave your phone at home too .I’ll protest baby murder and evil gun laws. My county of Cook has an abundance of Kungflu so I’m not protesting the shutdown YET. Me & the missus were quite ill in January. Unlike any “flu” we’ve ever had. Did we have Chinavirus?!? Do we have anti-bodies?

        2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          Yes, leave the phone at home or turn it off and keep it in a quality Faraday bag (like the cops do when they confiscate your property to prevent you from accessing and deleting evidence). Then you’ll at least have it with you in case of a medical emergency. If you want the ability to record video and take photos, you can get cheap basic-feature GoPro knockoffs for under $50, or even $30.

          https://www.amazon.com/Vemont-Underwater-Waterproof-Mounting-Accessories/dp/B07DVX1HQM/ref=sr_1_4?crid=27H2X5WSQHRG1&dchild=1&keywords=gopro+cheap&qid=1587487526&sprefix=gopro+cheap%2Caps%2C271&sr=8-4

      2. avatar frank speak says:

        criticism of Trump is widely overrated…and seems to be confined to the left…in most parts of the country people feel he’s doing the best he can under difficult circumstances

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Frank, you need to hush. We’re planning for the fruitcakes to suddenly discover that in November, when it’s too late to develop an actual platform, other than “TRUUUMMP!!”

    2. avatar Prndll says:

      I’m not seeing leadership from democrats.

      1. avatar frank speak says:

        the democrats seem to get off being control freaks….

    3. avatar pwrserge says:

      Ok… I was amongst the first to support temporary emergency measures and got ripped for it. I still believe they were necessary… IN MARCH. We’ve had almost two months for our medical systems to ramp up and prepare. Unsustainable “emergency” measures that last past that point are not justifiable. Yes, people will die. That’s, unfortunately, a fact of life. What we have to consider now is the cumulative impact of all these measures when applied over an extended period versus the cost of moderate measures that aren’t as effective, but also don’t destroy the economy.

      It’s not March 1st. We have an effective treatment. Medical supplies are starting to flow in. Time to scale back the quarantine and open up all businesses and rely on people to exercise a bit of common sense.

      1. avatar KenW says:

        Who has taken over Pwrserges account? I’m actually agreeing with him today. Where are the post wanting to string em up from the lamp post or shoot them? How did he keep this rational side so well hidden?

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Ask an 3rd Reich survivor how they feel about Nazis. Same thing, just with commies.

          I don’t particularly care to be rational regarding an ideology that murdered 80% of my family and persecuted what was left for the better part of a century.

        2. avatar KenW says:

          Since everyone on my Grandfathers side except him and one Uncle perished in what some on here think never happened I imagine he would agree with you. He did try to make me understand his way of thinking.
          He always said this was a wonderful country but to never trust it as it could change in an instant on you.
          Always be prepared . I guess in his own way he was similar to a prepper. He always had money and items easily converted for trade squirreled away as well as weapons and such. When they both passed we found money hidden all over the place Probably still some buried out in the orchards.

        3. avatar Ing says:

          “I don’t particularly care to be rational regarding an ideology that murdered 80% of my family and persecuted what was left for the better part of a century.”

          Under those circumstances, your hatred is absolutely reasonable.

          What’s mindboggling to me is the number of idiots who will handwave away the vast number of people that ideology is responsible for murdering and starving to death. (But we have experts… we’re doing it right this time… we’re different… No. Just no.)

      2. avatar RidgeRunner says:

        Ditto.

    4. avatar Manse Jolly says:

      “…Were politicians leading inspirationally, calling Americans to fight this thing together, that would be deserving of praise. That would be Leadership…..”

      No!, a inspirational pep talk is not leadership.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Yeah, just watch some of Biden’s propaganda from the bunker. “Orange man bad!”, “I’m going to fix everything with my magic wand!”, “I know the damn SECRET!!”. Not a single actual proposal, just unlimited pie-in-the-sky goals without a single idea how to accomplish any of them except you have to elect me. Without the distraction of the virus, I would still say that America is nowhere near that dumb.

  8. avatar strych9 says:

    Not gonna lie, tactical Hawaiian shirt looks better than it sounds like it should.

    As for the rest of it, well, it will continue to get messier. Reality clashes with ideology and a lot of people on both sides have been ideological about this from the jump and that has often resulted in the opposite of what should have happened. Almost like a huge percentage of people actually want the worst possible outcome from any given situation.

    Plenty of people are still wishing death on each other over or via this virus at this point just for having a different opinion on when or exactly how the country should reopen. And people are arguing through use of idiotic sloganeering. All to the benefit of no one in the general public.

    1. avatar Dan W says:

      Hawaiian shirt is the official uniform of Americans during the upcoming Honolulu shake n bake.

      1. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

        If you have not personally experienced a fever ‘shake n bake’, consider yourself fortunate.

        It flat *sucks*…

    2. avatar Prndll says:

      You have your choice…death by covid19 or death by starvation.

  9. avatar BusyBeef says:

    I love reading the stories when these fuckwits protest and then Covid19 spikes in their town.
    Even better reading their facebook posts where they’re going to protest and then they come down with Covid19.
    We even had one local die as a result.

    Stay home ya danguses.

    1. avatar Texsun55 says:

      How bout you cower down in your home and do exactly what your masters tell you. We all take a risk every day when we leave our home from all kinds of dangers. Let’s open things back up, and you can sit in your home and I will live free for as long as my maker gives me on this earth. Sitting in your home scared from something that by the most extreme forecasts would prove fatal to less than 1% of the population is not living. Your masters have ordered you to give up living your life and you faithfully comply.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        We can all argue and call each other names, then laugh and gloat when those on the other side are stricken. Fine. What these fools can NOT do is give me unconstitutional orders and arrest me for telling them to kiss off. Lewis and Clark took an ENORMOUS risk when they set out from St Louis for unknown points west. Nobody told them to cease or be thrown in jail, and the result changed the world, literally. If you choose to take the risk, you may die, but you certainly should not fear arrest.

    2. avatar strych9 says:

      The problem with your attitude is exemplified by the question “Stay home until when?”.

      The simple fact here is that a lot of people seem to think it’s just until we get a vaccine. Well, vax arguements aside when is that? 12-18 months they say but maybe by Fall.

      Not one of those timelines is sustainable. The death tolls from that will be larger than this virus is capable of producing and when the banks start threatening people those people will take the risk rather than guarantee losing their house.

      On top of that what they’re not telling you is that given our history of making vaccines for in the Coronaviridae whether or not we EVER have a vaccine for this is realistically 50/50 at this point. We’ve been trying to create vaccines for some of this viruses reasonably close relatives for 50 years and we have failed. So it’s literally a 50% shot that “When we have a vaccine” is actually “Never”.

      So “sTaY aT hOmE” is asinine sloganeering unless you put qualifiers on it.

      1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

        Agree. Not sustainable.

      2. avatar RidgeRunner says:

        Yep. It looks like two camps: the “hide under your bed” camp, the Government will take care of us; and the “I can’t take this any more, I’ve got to work/live/move and you can’t tell me what to do” camp. In my business, the former tend to be the more financially secure, and the latter have lost their livelihoods and need to work to survive. I’m more in the middle, but I’ve been going out this entire time, trying to be safe, and if the local Longhorn was to open up tonight, I’d go right in and get a beer and a steak. My elderly mother-in-law needs to stay home. Simple.

        1. avatar strych9 says:

          See, what you’ve done here is express an understanding that nuance is a thing.

          That’s shockingly rare these days.

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          I’m the elder Daddy, but I might just risk my ass for a steak and a beer!

    3. avatar 12 ga Reason says:

      Before u start calling freedom loving Americans names go look in the mirror. And educate yourself!!

      THE LOCKDOWNS WERE WORTHLESS.

      http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=239028

    4. avatar RetLEO says:

      The issue isn’t whether or not social distancing, etc. are effective solutions…It’s the government over-reach with Orders that you must ‘obey’ to force you into certain behaviors. It’s seemingly random definitions of ‘essential’ vs. ‘non-essential.’ It’s illogical restrictions (outdoors), mandatory masks that may or may not be effective, and the closure of various businesses which scare politicians while supporting those that don’t. And it’s the very obvious ploy to score cheap political points while putting citizens’ lives, families, and livelihoods at risk, all while hiding behind armed guards. A growing number of people are coming to realize that their respective ‘government leaders’ couldn’t care less about them except as a source of votes and tax money.

      1. avatar Porridgeweasel says:

        The current state of affairs in several STATES are a perfect example of your view.

        In my state it’s non-nonsensical and over reach. People are FINALLY figuring that out and beginning to realize what is being done by the governor and his toadies. Unfortunately they are asking these questions about 2 weeks too late and we are supposedly locked down until the 26th of May. Our state will suffer greatly for his efforts and he is a 1 term democratic governor (I believe 1 term) with nothing to loose overall.

        It started with a reasonable request for everyone’s overall benefit with the info. we had. Now it’s a power grab and an attempt to give democrats an advantage in my opinion.

    5. avatar Mister Fleas says:

      “I love reading the stories when these fuckwits protest and then Covid19 spikes in their town.
      Even better reading their facebook posts where they’re going to protest and then they come down with Covid19.
      We even had one local die as a result.”

      You are grossly misinformed. Here are two White House reporters who were caught on camera when they thought no one was recording:

      https://twitter.com/Goldstatetimes/status/1252390291018878979

      And now the transcript if you would rather read or could not understand quite:

      Reporter 1:LA County public health came out with a study. They found that
      7k cases in California but really believe that there are anywhere between 221,000 to 442,000 people who were infected.

      Reporter 2:Really?

      Reporter 1:Yeah

      Reporter 2: So that makes it 0.1, 2 0 .3?

      Reporter 2: Does the study (inaudible)

      Reporter 1: Yeah it just came out today

      Reporter 1: So it suggests that patient fatality rate is a tenth of what it seems to be

      Reporter 3: Wow! Which puts its right in line with the flu

      Yeah exactly..thats what it is

      So its a hoax?

      I don’t think it was a hoax

      (Laughing)

      Hear that? The fatality rate of the Wuhan virus is ONE TENTH OF WHAT IS BEING PUSHED. IT IS RIGHT IN LINE WITH THE FLU. All those protesters are not going to become sick from the protests.

      Oh, and here is another link for you:

      https://www.wral.com/covid-19-outbreak-at-north-carolina-prison-grows-to-150/19060704/

      OLDSBORO, N.C. — A COVID-19 outbreak at a North Carolina state prison has spread to 259 inmates, prison officials said Friday. But an even more alarming statistic came to light: Of the 259 infected, a full 98% showed no symptoms, according to State prisons Commissioner Todd Ishee.

      98% OF THE INFECTED SHOWED NO SYMPTOMS.

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        Yeah, I heard the announcement of that study on our Los Angeles radio (station KFI AM 640) last Friday.

      2. avatar LarryinTX says:

        In a couple weeks, if the areas with all these protests show no increase in cases, the shit is likely to hit the fan, and if they are thinking, will cause near revolution in our government. All bullshit, the past 6 weeks of pain and misery positively useless.

    6. avatar Someone says:

      Today I’ve heard an interesting idea. Before venting about your views on lockdown orders, you should state if you still get any income. Puts things into perspective. It’s much easier to poo poo the “dinguses” who want to work if your kids are not starving.

      Covid 19 has mortality of 3%…no, I mean 1%…that is 0.1%…or is it 0.01%. Hunger kills 100% if left untreated.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Unless I need to sell some investments, which is unlikely in the next year or two, it will affect my finances not at all, and I still say the amount of risk I am willing to accept is my business. I felt that way even before I chose to take an assignment to go to the war which killed my brother the year before. My risk is my business. Nanny can butt out.

    7. avatar frank speak says:

      well,..we just lost our police chief…so there is that…but at least half the cases around here seem confined to the nursing homes…which was predictable…..

  10. avatar beefeater says:

    Waiting to see the spikes in coronavirus transmission surrounding these idiotic protests. You may be able to deal with an infection, but the people you spread it to may not.

    1. avatar strych9 says:

      That’s not an argument for not protesting or for keeping things shut down. It’s an argument for PPE and proper hygiene.

      What none of the talking heads want to admit is that we don’t have a great track record of making v a c c I n e s for Coronaviridae. We’ve been working some of them for five decades with no success. Realistically having such a thing EVER is probably a 50/50 shot based on our success rate in this virus family and our ability to model how it’s surface structure might change. Especially since it can hop multiple species which is exactly why the flu shot for Influenza A is so hard to make.

      This one might get rough but all the shutdown timeframes under major discussion are essentially mass suicide. It’s a shitty situation.

      1. avatar Dude says:

        Some years the flu vaccine is extremely ineffective.

        1. avatar strych9 says:

          Yes it is. And there’s a good reason for that.

          Influenza A family viruses can infect a fair number of animals. People, cats, ducks, chickens, horses, even whales.

          The way viruses mutate is that they inject their genetic material into a host cell and have the cell do the reproduction for them. The Flu A viruses are all negative sense single strand RNA viruses, which makes errors in reproduced coding easier (genetic drift). It also makes it easier for parts of their code to end up in the host and vice versa.

          This means there are more changes in the virus when it hops species since different species have more genetic difference than individuals of a single species do. One of the major changes any drift creates is the surface protein structure of the virus, and this increases the drift in each generation of replication before the virus hops back to people.

          A v a c c I n e is meant to create antibodies, and it does. However those antibodies have to be able to attach to the outside of the virus to block that virus particle from attaching to a host cell. If the antibody doesn’t fit because the virus has a different enough surface structure you get no immunity.

          The flu shot is made by looking at what the most common flu viruses, in this case A type, are in circulation and trying to guess which mixtures are going to be common. They’re literally trying to predict what the surface protein structure of the most common viruses in circulation will be next year.

          When they get it right, or close enough to right, the shot works. When they aren’t, it doesn’t.

      2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        #1) I agree with everything you just said above.

        #2) Are the site filters still set to disallow comments containing “that” word? The ghost of PG still walks this place, lol.

        1. avatar Dude says:

          “Your comment is awaiting moderation”

          Oh, that’s why!

        2. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

          “The ghost of PG still walks this place, lol.”

          The good news is, if there is a v a c c i n e available in a few months, he won’t take it, and maybe ‘shake-n-bake’ himself to the morgue… 🙂

  11. avatar Phil says:

    “Heavy weapons”?! I didn’t see an M2 or mortars.

  12. avatar JustUseCommonSense says:

    The problem here is people think they are just going to waltz back into work and flip the lights back on and things go back to normal, but that’s not how this works at all. Many supply chains around the world are frozen completely still, so you’re still out of work because you can’t make anything, and any consumer with a lick of common sense isn’t going to go out and burn money considering this makes a resurgence, and in a depressed economy people will tighten their belts just in case things get worse. So manufacturing, food industry, oil industry and low wage jobs are still SOL. Oh and that’s also not factoring in things like care for children since mommy and daddy have to work.

    We will go back to work soon, literally EVERYONE knows this cause the economy can’t continue on its current course, but when you have imbecile boot lickers like these pictured who refuse to wear a mask and social distance properly cause “MuH RiGhTs” while flying Orange Man flags and walking down the street in their tacticool plate carriers and open carrying. This is why liberals are destroying our 2A rights cause of sheer stupidity such as this.

    1. avatar Prndll says:

      It might be more productive for people to consider who they are voting for.

    2. avatar Debbie W. says:

      Imbecile boot lickers, Orange man flags, Muh Rights, open carrying? Look who is talking. Whether your paranoid behind knows it or not…Your deameaning rethoric does nothing but put a sht grin on the pompous gun grabbing democRats that you claim to disdain.
      In America it’s called Free Speech and if people feel oppressed they have a right to peacefully protest. Should we fire hose them down, use billy clubs and tear gas to disrupt the crowd? You remind of individuals who did not approve of protesting Black Americans simply because they were Black and their attributes and desires were not politically correct.

      TRUMP/PENCE 2020.

      1. avatar GLOCKDOC says:

        0 miles of wall built

        1. avatar Debbie W. says:

          Well get off your so called pro-gun butt, grab some lumber and start hammering or STFU.

          TRUMP/PENCE 2020.

        2. avatar Mister Fleas says:

          Wrong. As of December 2019, 93 miles have been built(most of which replaced existing structures).

      2. avatar Hugh Glass says:

        “Should we fire hose them down, use billy clubs and tear gas to disrupt the crowd?” I wouldn’t advise it.

      3. avatar JustUseCommonSense says:

        Sorry but I call it how I see it. Its called seeing the bigger picture, and anyone who isn’t a Trump bootlicker hopefully has the sense to know that rolling around like they’re actually gonna boogaloo when we all know dang well they aren’t is pointless and DETRIMENTAL to the 2A cause. You’d also should be concerned because noticed there’s not a single person out there flying any other flags…because you’d have to be really dumb to make this a political rally during a HEALTH AND ECONOMIC CRISIS, especially when you’re doing a horrific job at the handling part.

        But what it does do is it paints the optics that gun owners are crazy and they all support Trump’s massive screw ups. Guns has virtually zero to do with the debate of opening our economy up, but yet these clowns thought they were really showing “the sheep” what’s up by rolling around in their gear.

        All those new gun owners who went out to panic buy? They’re now lumped in with these fat overweight loonies who will definitely be amongst the first to die if they actually caught it. Is this

        EDIT: I am not a Trump sympathizer. I can count on one hand the positive things he’s done, and the ONLY one of actual importance has been getting constitutional judges on the Supreme Court which will strengthen my gun rights.

        1. avatar Someone says:

          This crises is political. Leftists will do everything and anything to make Trump look bad and get to power, ruined country be damned. This is beggining of a recession, artificially induced by a government over reach. It will do much more bad than the Chinese virus.

          Some of the protesters are fat? And overweight on top of that? Like large part of the US population? Shocking!

          Good thing you straightened the record about your support for the sitting President. You almost had me confused. No, not really.

  13. avatar Dude says:

    I find it interesting that the AP photo caption called the AR a “police patrol-type rifle”. I don’t think I’ve heard that one before.

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      Well, at least its shoulder thingie goes down in the back instead of up.

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      all our patrol cars have one in a highly visible position….seems to be getting pretty common these days…

      1. avatar Dude says:

        Then they might as well call it a home defense type rifle. Either way, it’s a step up from calling it a military weapon of war type rifle.

  14. avatar Darkman says:

    We had a business on the Iowa side of the Quad cities open yesterday in direct defiance of the closure order. The owner announced the opening on the news last Friday. So far no attempt has been made by state or local government to force closure. It is going to interesting to see if there are in consequences against these closure orders in the courts. More importantly will there be any repercussions at the voting booth. Keep Your Powder Dry.

  15. avatar Kyle says:

    Just checking,

    Anyone get shot at that protest by those “terrorists” (re: Joy Behar)?

    Now, lets do a quick check. Had….oh say, an al-qaeda real terrorist, been at that demonstration so armed, anyone wonder if there might have been real violence?

    Oh wait…there were “good guys with guns” on site, so no. The Al-Qaeda real terrorist would have moved on to a nice juicy soft target.

    it is their way.

  16. avatar Windowisclosed says:

    The problem with the lockdown is that there is no exit strategy. Everyone stays home so the spread slows, then what? Stay home forever? Testing is not being performed for those at home. Do we just stay home till a vaccine is developed? How many months, years? Increase testing going house to house, release the ones who are positive since they are already exposed. The rest will have to wait for the vaccine (or exposure).

  17. avatar Mike says:

    I wonder if anyone is aware this movement is Astroturf by groups linked to the DeVos family?

    1. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

      “His words echo those heard at similar protests that have sprung up in different states over the last week.” – Happens when they’re reading off the same script.

    2. avatar Miner49er says:

      Shhhhhh!

  18. avatar Dukeq27 says:

    The Governors hit the lockdown switch too hard in my estimation. If they had a had a plan in place for business along some common sense lines no lockdown would have been necessary. Large restaurants could have cut their capacities for spacing using reservations as an example alternating wait and bar staff to keep those numbers down as well as masks and gloves for waiters and waitresses. . Many businesses have hardly any staff on the floor. So who cares if a non essential business with two employees is open. Just limit how many in the store at one time for any business. Outdoor recreational activities the same thing it’s out doors folks just no large gatherings like concerts or just sell half as many tickets for those events. Same for sporting venues. It could have been done with seating spacing and mask and gloves. They’ll say their draconian, if not downright totalitarian, measures worked. See the CV19 numbers are way low. But the economy is in shambles and now every year the temptation will be there to do it again because don’t you know the Whatever virus is coming and going to kill you all.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      thought the guy in Ohio did a good job in getting out ahead of this thing….in PA we seem to have a sheep in wolf’s clothing…..

  19. avatar Dude says:

    Shelter in place. Close businesses. But we need to keep bringing in immigrants to take the nonexistent jobs! This should be interesting.

  20. avatar GLOCKDOC says:

    0) This is terrible optics. I’m very pro-gun, and I want these people thrown in jail for endangering public safety.
    1) This is astroturfed- probably Koch bro’s.
    2) WTF- this virus is real and destroys your testosterone levels. I’m an endocrinologist. I know.
    3) really? You obese open carry types said nothing when immigration, outsourcing, opiates, gay marriage, etc. destroyed this country-

    But God forbid you can’t go to Applebee’s? Or go watch the latest Harvey Weinstein movie?

    4) You want to leave your prepper cave with a year’s worth of MREs because you need a haircut? You really want the gay pride parades coming back that badly?

    5) Most of these people are retirees collecting social security/ pensions- who want other people to go to work.

    6) Look, If the Fed can increase the M1 money supply from $4T to $6T- they can send people real helicopter money to stay at home during this crisis.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      Ok… I’d love to see the data of the medical impact of this virus on healthy adults. Not saying I don’t believe you, but I want to see numbers over a large sample size. So far, I am concerned, but not impressed. Yes, it’s worse than the flu. I don’t see data showing it to be anywhere near as bad as some of the plagues that roll through African countries on a yearly basis.

      You also have to remember that the medical aspect is not the only aspect that must be considered. At some point, the societal impact of having tens of millions of people suddenly out of work will have a far worse effect than a few hundred thousand dead. It’s a cold blooded calculation, but it’s one that needs to be made.

      Finally, there’s the philosophical standpoint to be addressed. Even if you were 100% right on the medicine, (which, be honest Doctor, you can’t assure me of) and I was 100% wrong on the economic impact. Do we want to live in a society where the government turns emergency measures into long term policy?

      Also, personal attacks on people are not helpful to your cause. I’d bet that you’re no spring chicken yourself. … and we both know that BMI guidelines are complete bullshit when applied with no other data points. (I was probably healthier at 5’10” 250 lbs than most people are at “ideal” BMIs)

    2. avatar Florida Kracker says:

      @GLOCKDOC
      You and Hannibal proceed to rail car 54 someone in grey will be waiting for you show him your papers sit down along the wall and make no noise.

    3. avatar Jessie says:

      Everyone was fine with them armed. They arent obese, I know them, they train. Tge guy on the left is an EMT. We will carry regardless of whether you like it or not. During the revolutionary war, we were in the midst of an extreme epidemic, much worse then coronavirus, and yet the founding fathers still got together and wrote the first amendment. The First Amendment prohibits government from abridging “the right of the people peaceably to assemble.”

  21. avatar tdiinva says:

    You go to a Second Amendment in Richmond you open carry to assert your rights.

    You show up at a demonstration open carrying to assert your right to sit in a McDonalds and eat your Big Mac you are a moron.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      I disagree. Sometimes, shock is the only way to get the message across. Take the “gay pride” movement that peddles utter degeneracy in public. Do you think they would have gotten anywhere near as far without the absurd freak shows of their “gay pride” parades?

      1. avatar strych9 says:

        This is why I have no problem telling obese people the truth regardless of the feelz it may cause.

        Outside the tiny minority of those with a condition that’s causing their obesity the problem is a poor lifestyle. Back when I smoked I didn’t have a problem with people who told me it was stupid, unhealthy and made me smell like shit because all of that was true. The obese need a similar social stigma against their behavior.

        Sure, you’re free to toss back fast food til you’re fat as a motherfucker but the rest of us are free to point out the truth: that such behavior is unhealthy, self-destructive and disgusting.

        1. avatar Nero "...diction, not grammar..." Wolfe says:

          “…til [sic] you’re fat as a…”

          So just how fat is that? With your extensive vocabulary, you had to resort to poolroom argot to present your case?

          Sorry to sound like your mother, but I’ve always wanted to ask that someone question.

          I do agree with you in principle, and, ok, I’m testing your principle.

        2. avatar strych9 says:

          Fair question.

          It doesn’t have a specific definition. Kinda like obscenity, “I know it when I see it”. (Ironic, I know.)

          The reason is because of the way people argue about it. “The standards change!”, “I have dense bones!”, “BMI is nonsense!” etc etc. The truth, the hard truth, is that many people who are overweight are sensitive about it but they’re also defensive about it in ways that make it almost impossible to actually discuss the issue. So, a patently offensive term like that grabs attention and since it’s not a technical definition they can’t really argue about dense bones or other technical issues they don’t really understand and derail the conversation. Yeah, it hurts people’s feelings. It’s meant to. That sounds terrible but when you discuss serious health and safety issues people listen or there are awful consequences, so if they do the right thing the fact that they were offended doesn’t much matter.

          For example, a shortish story;

          I had a coworker who was quite a nice lady. She was gaining weight at what any rational person would call an “alarming rate”. She went to the doc, no underlying health conditions that would cause this were found. But she was convinced she must have a thyroid problem. Absolutely convinced.

          This goes on for awhile until a few days after the doc told her that she had hit the point to qualify as obese, in fact she was well past the mark for that. She asked me how I avoid gaining weight. She was beside herself and kept talking thyroid.

          I told her that I’d be happy to help and asked her to write down what she ate and drank for the following week and give me the list on Friday. Friday afternoon I went over the list. Long story short; she was taking in 6000-7500 calories a day and 650+ grams of carbs. Essentially eating like a body builder but never going to the gym.

          When I pointed this out she was horrified, especially since she was drinking many of those calories and didn’t realize it.

          But she stuck to that thyroid thing. That HAD to be the problem, right? She told me the standards were “wrong”. I told her to assume that the 2000 calorie diet was wrong and double the numbers to 4000 calories a day and she’s still, minimum, 50% over target for her activity level. Then I showed her how to calculate how much she’d have to walk with that diet just to break even. Continuing to assume she requires 4000 calories a day, and using her body weight, average calories on flat ground, her basic walking speed (no way she could actually keep it up long enough in her condition but that’s not the point here) worked out to having to get off work and go for a 7 hour walk at 2.5mph just to hold her calorie intake as neutral for the day. She would have to do this, or more, EVERY day to keep consuming what she was. Losing weight? Gotta do more.

          She said this was all impossible. Such a life couldn’t be had. So, I told her that if she wanted to be fat as fuck, wreck her finances and die early leaving her kids a ton of debt then she was on the right path. That word “fuck” broke something loose in her. She was hurt. I could see that, but she wasn’t talking “thyroid” any more.

          She dropped 24lbs in the next month and did a lot of it by watching what she drank. Her Starbucks and soda calories were usually 2300+ because that Venti “coffee” drink she was having was 580 calories by itself and she was doing that multiple times in the day.

          It’s a habit I picked up giving safety briefings to groups of different tourists every day. The occasional use of profanity in the context of an otherwise professional speech draws attention to the words on either side the the profanity. Used properly it gets people’s attention and they remember what I wanted them to remember, the other two words.

          In actual speech I don’t swear nearly as much as I do here. Unless I’m tearing my boss a new one.

        3. avatar Nero "...diction, not grammar..." Wolfe says:

          My question was not a jab, so thank you for responding appropriately. I actually have asked that question before, and the reaction usually proves my point. I also note that you didn’t take the bait of my transposed words. Even better. I accept and appreciate your position. Sometimes, it is the discordant note that makes the music.

      2. avatar tdiinva says:

        But you see they did things that highlighted the gay lifestyle. That’s like open carry in Richmond. Your desire to eat in at McDonald’s has nothing to do with firearms. The equivalent would be to hold a naked BBQ on the capita lawn with a lot sex.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Have you BEEN to the SF “gay pride” march? I was there once… Brain bleach was the order of the day.

        2. avatar tdiinva says:

          I have been subjected to the National Women’s (aka National Lesbian) Music Festival on multiple occasions when I was in graduate school in Champaign-Urbana. That was bad enough. One year I was walking with one of my wife’s professors and she remarked “where did all these dykes come from?”

      3. avatar frank speak says:

        It’s a big deal in Pittsburgh!…gun rights?….not so much….

  22. avatar Dukeq27 says:

    It’s hard to find figures online for flu/pneumonia deaths in the US. But from Statista.com:

    Our death rate from flu/pneumonia the last few years is in the 14-15 deaths per 100k. Which puts the annual death rate around 50k.

    In 1950 the death rate for flu/pneumonia was about 48 per 100k. 72k deaths. Which is about 175k deaths with today’s population numbers

    In1960 the flu/pneumonia death rate is listed at 54 per 100k. 97k deaths. Around 200k deaths today.

    The Spanish flu claimed 675k lives in the US a death rate of around 67 per 100k. Which seems low. But the deaths in cities were very high just as now skewed by population density and a few cities being hit very hard. Which today would translate into the 2million range. Probably where they got their initial estimates of CV 19.

    With the exception of the Spanish Flu I don’t think there was an economic lock down with those very high death rates prior to the last thirty years or so. I’m old enough to remember every other summer there would be closure of swimming pools and other activities due to polio outbreaks. But nothing remotely like this.

    1. avatar tdiinva says:

      We might exceed the one month maximum for the Spanish flu. Of course we have three times the population so on per capita basis it is not as bad. However, the death toll for April 2020 is exceeded only by October 1918.

  23. avatar John Smith says:

    The case for herd immunity, modern democratic society with modern healthcare system and few problems like those in Italy and New York for comparison.

    https://www.westernjournal.com/sweden-official-coronavirus-strategy-keeping-country-open-seems-working/

    COVID-19 appears by all studies and accurate numbers to mainly effect, those in the following categories: elderly, obese, high blood pressure, diabetic, those with underlying health conditions, and a myriad of factors that compromise their immune systems e.g. taking medications and poor diet and lifestyle.

    I spelled that out to say this, we did not need to quarantine 90+% of America and violate their constitutional rights by some estimates putting some 311 million Americans on de facto house arrest, violating rights, destroying the economy, destroying families and businesses. Hopefully, studies will be done that evaluate the second and third order effects from the poor decision making and guidance by “experts” and “leaders”. How many suicides related to these decisions, how many new alcoholics, drug addicts, divorces and domestic abuses will there be related to these decisions to shut America down and put America on house arrest despite not being accused, convicted or any proof that anyone on house arrest is even sick?

    You quarantine the sick, and you respectfully request those I mentioned before, the at risk to responsibly take necessary precautions. See that is called coercion or persuasion, which is effective leadership, what was done was done by threat of force. That is tyranny, anytime you encounter control that is also satanic. Now who benefits and how?

    Numerous mitigation factors could have been implemented, by law where constitutional, by recommendation where not constitutional by appealing to people through persuasion from people in charge acting like leaders, not dictators. Which would not have meant shutting down businesses or denying Americans their inalienable rights, but by implementing legal, responsible mitigation protocols.

    Now, to the ass-clowns that want to play dress up, just because you can do it, doesn’t mean you should, that is the difference between a professional, an adult, a responsible gun owner and a fucktard. But, I still support your right to be a fucktard, otherwise why are we doing any of this as the constitution wasn’t written with an asterisk, reading “in the case of…” insert crisis here. The case could be made for a show of force if the protesters were not allowed to protest by police, NG, government etc…misusing their power, but this does not appear to be the case.

    -WR

    1. avatar Debbie W. says:

      By all accounts your definition of support is contrary to Webster’s et al. I hate to rain on your parade but your lengthy opening lines leading up to your support finally has no chance of being a best seller.

    2. avatar pwrserge says:

      Good in principle, bad in detail. With this disease “quarantining the sick” is an exercise in futility. By the time you develop symptoms, you’ve been an asymptomatic carrier for at least a week.

      1. avatar John Smith says:

        Only because the test for COVId-19 picks up everything including the common cold, then showing antibodies of a coronavirus that is how you get asymptomatic people, it doesn’t mean they are shedding an active virus. So, you are making the case quarantning the sick doesn’t work. Ill take that bet.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          No, I’m saying that by the time you can tell someone is sick, they have been spreading the virus for over a week. That’s how incubation periods work. Enough infection to be contagious, not enough to cause symptoms, yet.

        2. avatar Southern Cross says:

          That’s how Sydney has a CV19 hotspot from a nursing home where a nurse who was asymptomatic worked there for a week before she was tested and found to be positive. 41 infected and 3 deaths so far.

    3. avatar Ing says:

      “Hopefully, studies will be done that evaluate the second and third order effects from the poor decision making and guidance by “experts” and “leaders”.”

      Not for a long, long time, they won’t. If ever. People are still praising FDR, after all.

  24. avatar Debbie W. says:

    That democRat gov. sure knows how to yank the chains of ordinary Americans. He must assume everyone was put on this earth to jump through hoops like silly circus animals. That’s certainly not the case in America so from behind closed doors out comes the protesters.
    Uppity democRats do not even consider the Bill of Rights so they reach into their behinds and out comes another command for the masses to bow down to or else. Well the gov. is being called out for his failure to properly accomodate the citizenry during a crisis situation. Had he done a better job perhaps there would be no protest and everyone would have stayed home.

  25. avatar Datahut says:

    Am personally at risk for the effects of COVID-19. For myself and others of age, personal responsibility dictates minimizing personal exposure. However, having background in epidemiology, statistics and politics, I support sentiments for lifting restrictions. Certainly based on state by state considerations.
    It’s good to see Americans protesting in numbers again, carrying on the tradition of civil disobedience and questioning authority. As a gun nut though, the immature tards dressing up and toting their firepower as tag alongs to this political issue is stupid. The press loves to concentrate on them, an encounter that doesn’t need to happen. Besides, if I had any concerns that some left wingnut COVID infused radicals were going to crash the demonstration and spread the plague (not really), a disinfecting flame thrower disguised as a leaf blower would be the tool of choice.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      well,..they asked one of these guys why he was doing it….his response….”Why not?”….go figure…

  26. avatar Hugh Glass says:

    You already said all this. Reads like a “company line.” And it is still all bullshit.

    1. avatar Hugh Glass says:

      Sorry, this comment to GLOCK-DICK.

  27. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

    Gun grabbers have been promoting the idea that those who oppose whatever idiot “commonsense” bans they’re currently pushing are extremists who care more about their guns than about public safety. And here come these cosplaytriots to provide the perfect images to exemplify that stereotype.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      Oh, please, at this point the virus is so spread through the population that the “public safety” argument doesn’t hold water for anybody with half a braincell.

      1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

        My understanding, and maybe I’m wrong, is that the quarantine was to keep the hospitals from getting overrun as happened in Italy and to keep the entire medical infrastructure from collapsing, not necessarily saving lives as primary reason although that is good too.

        For the sufferers of TDS I would like to see you do better than he has to date. Monday morning quarterbacking if you ask me. The man has more on his shoulders than you realize..whole big world out there full of bad things and people trying to screw with us.

        `just sayin

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          That was fine IN MARCH. The hospitals have had almost 2 months to get their act together. Now, the “don’t swamp the hospitals” line is getting a bit stale. We have more than enough infrastructure in place to deal with an infection spike. That infrastructure won’t last long if the underlying economy utterly collapses.

      2. avatar tdiinva says:

        That’s a false assumption based on some false assumptions on antibody tests. If you were to test the unvaccinated population for this year’s flu for antibodies you would find that a large percentage of people did not have the flu have antibodies for it. If you came in contact with the virus at some point you are likely to have antibodies present.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Yes… You can get a flu infection with no symptoms. That’s how your immune system works. If you have the antibodies, you have been exposed to the virus. Doesn’t mean you had the disease, but those antibodies don’t come out of thin air.

      3. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

        For appearances, perceived risk is more significant than actual threat. Those who can assess threats accurately already aren’t going to support useless gun restrictions.

  28. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    Congratulations to President Donald Trump. For making the governors of sovereign states responsible for what goes on inside their borders.

    The states shut the economy down. Not the federal government. And the it’ll be the governor’s that pay the price and their supporters in the legislature for alonging with this BS to go on.

    If the governor’s were smart they could have used common sense. And just quarantine the counties or districts where the flu hit the most. Which is what happened in 1918. Only those small areas affected ended up being quarantined.

    They used to teach that if you if people live together like sardines diseases spread more easily. Now they just teach kids about “tranny story time” and how to put a condom on a cucumber.

  29. avatar MLee says:

    They had a “bite me” rally in Olympia, WA also. Of course the media cartel made sure not to capture images of the well armed people. However with a decent computer screen and looking at high res images, you can clearly see people were carrying.

  30. avatar Ralph says:

    If you want to go out and do stuff, then go out and do stuff. If you want to stay home and “shelter in place,” then stay home and shelter in place. I can’t oppose either decision.

    But if you want me to stay home — or to go out — and you choose to enforce your decision with violence, don’t be surprised if I choose to resist the same way.

    Fortunately, in Massachusetts, we do not have a shelter in place order or a mask order, but we do have advisories for both. Stores and restaurants are closed, but if I choose to go to the park or the beach, which is across the street from me, I can do so. If this offends my “friends” in Michigan or New York City, then by all means they can go fvck themselves.

    1. avatar tdiinva says:

      NYC doesn’t require you to stay home do you will only be offending Michiganers.

      Same her in Wisconsin. I haven’t changed my routine except I shop online. I hate going to the store anyway.

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        New York is very restrictive, to the point that Mayor De [email protected]@rdo has installed a snitch line so that New Yorkers can turn in their neighbors.

        Statists all over the country are applauding.

  31. avatar WI Patriot says:

    Rights are rights, and there are no wrongs when it comes to rights…

  32. avatar Hannibal says:

    Astroturfing is alive and well. This time instead of the lefties bringing in BLM on busses it’s the righties astroturfing from their pro-2nd lists. Hell, I’ve gotten the emails myself.

    Imagine if people were smart enough to think for themselves instead of being told what they’re supposed to be afraid of by political action groups.

    1. avatar jwm says:

      Socialism would die if every body thought for themselves.

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        So would government.

        1. avatar SuspiciousFisherman says:

          Nailed it. It’s not the left or the right. It’s both.

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      well the dems do seem to be constantly trying to include agenda items into these relief bills..

  33. avatar sound awake says:

    some were well armed…
    others had pistol caliber carbines…

    1. avatar SuspiciousFisherman says:

      Paul Harrell said it best: “The .22 is better than the 5.56 you don’t have.”

      As long as it goes bang and has some sort of modern efficiency to it, flaunt it.

  34. avatar Shadow says:

    What is even more scary is that the prescient has been set: Governments (state, local, federal) can shut down for as long as they want, if they scare the public enough. Whether a threat is real or not does not matter. They know they can do it, and stupid Americans will go along with it…..”if it saves one life” (ugh). Now they can do it the next time around. Just make the threat more “scary”, or just plain threaten people that you will arrest/shoot/throw them in a FEMA camp if they are not good little slaves, and “do what you are told. If Bill Gates gets his way, we will all be forcibly inoculated before we are “allowed” to do anything more than crap in our own bathroom without their permission.

    1. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

      When did we switch from George Soros to Bill Gates as the evil puppet master behind every attempt to subjugate the world? I must have missed a memo somewhere.

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        Which one is Gates? Is he the one with the accent?

      2. avatar Shadow says:

        Well, both are evil, and ugly AF to look at. But Bill and Melinda Gates are into Eugenics, and have been pushing vaccines in countries all over the world for years, especially poor countries. To “help” them, of course. I am sure that either Soros or Gates would be more than happy to kill us all off one way or the other. This Covid crisis is the perfect excuse to forcibly jab every last one of us with God-knows-what, and I am sure that Soros would be more than happy to help Gates if needed assistance.

      3. avatar Ing says:

        Not every attempt…just this one.

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      all this seems to emanate from a one size fits all mentality….

  35. avatar Russell Williams says:

    sadley buried underneath all this is a legitimates consurn
    Meny are Frustrated that they cant make a living and for some reason or another fall through the gaps in the government business support programs. Putting a lot of people at risk of lousing everything.
    Add to that with the already bad economy and a lot of business. Not making enough profit to support further lending form the banks. And combined With not every bank and landlord being generous with payment and rent holidays. You have people with there backs against the wall. And with the fedral government away twiddling there thumbs, to those people time is running out.
    If the Government want these people to stay at home then it has a duty to make suer these people are taken care of financially until the covid 19 crisis is over. Otherwise there locked in a catch 22 position

    1. avatar enuf says:

      Agree 100%

      There is an enormous amount the Federal government is responsible for and failing at, completely true.

      That does not make these calls to relax anti-COVID-19 actions at all reasonable, they are really very dangerous.

      But the reasons for people making these calls now? Completely understandable and not their fault!

      1. avatar SuspiciousFisherman says:

        Most of us want less government control, but that has zero to do with actually taking care of it’s people. Aid is not control. Maybe this is a wake up call for Americans to realize how much their government thinks of them. From the hardcore left to the hardcore right… pretty sure the common ground now is borderline depressing to everyone who believed the media portraying people as so diversely divided. Clearly, we are not. Sad that it takes a depression and a pandemic to wake people up.

  36. avatar BootsOnGround says:

    We are Americans. What do all these liberals expect? We defend countries and people throughout the world, and now we are defending ourselves and our constitutional rights here at home. We’re ready to go back to work to feed our families and prevent collapse of the economy. So politicians, please move out of the way. We’re going back to work!

    1. avatar Rob says:

      You mean we attack countries around the world for profit. Also the Constitution allows for police powers like this. But you don’t actually care about real history or the Constitution do you?

    2. avatar SuspiciousFisherman says:

      Did you just say please? And do you honestly believe we defend the world? lol. I love people like you. Willing to bet you were in the service too. I was also. Unlike you, I know why were invaded Iraq, and why we are still in AFG and Africa… and everywhere else. It has absolutely nothing to do with protecting innocents and defending freedom.

      I agree, people need to work, but in reality, peoples jobs should be paying them to NOT show up sick. It’s fucking simple. You get a cold, you go to work. Why? You have to make money. Soon the entire place gets sick because your dumbass just has to work. Who’s fault is it? Yours? Or your employer for not having decent sick leave? The world is changing, friendo… time to stop acting like pride will save it.

  37. avatar Bill says:

    Dumbass mofos, falling for Russian propaganda again… It’d be easier to align with conservative values if so many of them didn’t the line with conspiracy theories.

  38. avatar SuspiciousFisherman says:

    3 weeks later they all die. I will LOL.

    Seriously, we don’t agree with marshall law, but really, idiots need to be told how to keep from getting others sick. Probably because our capitalist government gives zero fucks and this means sick people have to work which gets more people sick. But this shit just makes us look retarded. Literally the worst thing you can do is to gather so close, and these idiots are doing just that. It’s not like it’s going to change anything… they will show up and go home in a day or two. Just like the fat asses did at Virginia. Protests are pathetic. Either pull the fucking trigger or stay at home.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      I don’t have to work…so I stay home, have food delivered, etc…but others do… and should be allowed to… with safeguards….

      1. avatar SuspiciousFisherman says:

        and it shouldn’t take the government to step in and say this. At the same time, this whole mentality that we can achieve peace by being peaceful is just ignorant. They will take until they take your life. Take theirs first and set the standard.

    2. avatar pwrserge says:

      Marshal Law? Is that where the US Marshals are responsible for all law enforcement or the old TV Show?

      This is your brain on COCAINE. Post midnight shitposting rarely looks good in the morning.

      1. avatar SuspiciousFisherman says:

        Pull that trump dick out your mouth boy. I can’t hear you with all that mumbling.

        1. avatar pwrserge says:

          Whatever you say commie vermin, now hug the wall.

  39. avatar Jeffrey Hunt says:

    “it’s looking like, with the help of social distancing, COVID-19 will kill fewer than an average flu season.”
    Not true. So far in Michigan Covid 19 has a 7% death rate, more than 3 times normal flu. I can attest to the trailers filled with bodies behind our hospitals. There are also many healthy who have died, as well as populations of immunosuppressed people. Wow, I used to respect you folks, but all the terrible information I see on this site disgusts me. I work at a hospital. This is very real, don’t kid yourselves.

    1. avatar pwrserge says:

      Where the fuck are you getting 7%? Deerbournistan?

  40. avatar ATTAGReader says:

    I 100% support the protests. I wish I could participate but our state capital is too far away. However, much as I support gun ownership and have no problem with open carry (legal here but rarely seen) these protests are not the place to bring guns. The MSM hates us, whether gun owners or against the lockdowns. Showing up with AR’s just furthers their narrative that we are all Klansmen without hoods, without even (gasp!) masks. Presence of guns may also dissuade black people from joining the anti-lockdown cause. Yet they are being economically hurt the most. There is a time and place for 2A protests. This is not that time.

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