ABC Perplexed By Firearms Trainers Putting 2A Rights Above More Business

small business active mass shooter training

(Justin Bedard/Market Mentors, LLC via AP)

Go figure.

“I should be jumping up and down for joy, thinking we’re going to make a lot of money on this,” (trainer Charlie) Strickland said. “We don’t think that.”

While Strickland (not pictured above) said passage would likely mean more business, he’s opposed. He’s worried the bill would further erode second amendment rights.

Though he appreciates regular training, he said it should be a person’s choice, not a requirement.

“I don’t believe in this legislation any more than I think you should have an IQ test to vote or you should have to have an ethics class to exercise your freedom of speech,” Strickland said. “A constitutional right is a constitutional right.”

Ag Commissioner Nikki Fried helped craft the bill, which has yet to be assigned to a committee. She’s called the proposal as a win for gun safety in the state — touting, in particular, its other provision. If passed, Florida could keep gun licensing fingerprints to better stop those with out-of-state felonies from renewing carry permits.

– Forest Saunders in Florida firearms instructors leery of gun bill that may mean better business

comments

  1. avatar Ed Schrade says:

    The ” right to keep and bear arms” means to own and carry, no license required. When a license is required it becomes a privilege not a constitutional right. Come on Supreme Court, do your job and read the constitution and realize that all gun controls represent infringements against our rights.

    1. avatar smitty says:

      Great reply.

      1. avatar eagle10 says:

        Ditto!

      2. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

        Nailed it !

    2. avatar moreadventuresonotherplanets says:

      In the real world Mandatory required training is a must. This is no longer 1776 the world has become far more complex since then. People who are first time buyers and some who have even owned guns previously are often sadly lacking in safety training, and knowing the law as to when you can legally shoot to defend yourself and when you cannot and the consequences of such actions even when you legally can shoot.

      I was shocked when I had a discussing with a Doctor (of all people) who was unaware of the fact that even if he was not charged by the police in a justified shooting he could very well spend a good $100,000 hiring a good lawyer to defend him from lawsuits by the bereaved. He believed money was more important than his life so he said he probably would not be getting his concealed carry permit.

      1. avatar Ing says:

        Blah, blah, blah… That’s bullshit and you know it. Greedy lawyers, stupid laws, crooked courts, and egregious fees existed back in the old days, too, just like they do now. (Why do you think the utopian conversation in Shakespeare’s “The Tempest” started with “First we kill all the lawyers?”)

        Guns are still just simple little machines that are perfectly safe with only four dirt-simple rules of operation, and human nature is no different than it was back then.

        In 1776, there were plenty of people like you telling the American rubes that they *needed* the Crown to tell them what to do…and we know who lost that argument. I say we keep that tradition going.

        1. avatar Michael says:

          Yea more complex or no common sense left? This Planet weirdo probably believes in Flat Earth Conspiracies too.:LOL!

      2. avatar Sam Hill says:

        So that’s the excuse you want to go with. I guess the people’s obligation to be responsible for themselves is outdated also. In that case screw you. There should be a law telling you what to do with the spoon after you put it and sugar in your coffee cup. By God that’s damned good idea, especially for you and people like you.

      3. avatar Big Bill says:

        Now that’s funny, right there.
        I don’t care who you are, that there is funny.

      4. avatar Tired of the bs says:

        Maybe a good reason to teach firearms safety in schools

      5. avatar jwm says:

        Leave it to an updated Hitlerite to put a ‘poll’ tax on a fundamental right.

        You fascists never change.

      6. avatar Dani in WA says:

        “In the real world” or “onotherplanets”?
        Make up your mind.

      7. avatar Michael says:

        Slick argument,but if one cannot use common sense to read safety manuals first before playing with tool’s then seek education,and not by Govt Rules.Federal laws exists now.lets tell the libtards to enforce them not Comprehensive Collective Communist dictate Ridicules OK!
        YOU TUBE is full of educated Advice for free and plenty of self defense books by retired CIA and Military Americans and Shoot house Academies too.

        The American Constitutional Republic Must Be kept Liberated and Free.

        Democracy is man made and turned into mob rule by Socialite Hairdos and has
        failed.Proof since 1913 has finally bubbled up from the shadow Govt now called
        the deep states Lawyers liar club,swamp colored in blue stolen from the Republic
        Union ! See NASTY Pelosi the LIAR and her Buddy’s Hillary and Obama

      8. avatar Excedrine says:

        STFU crisco kid, the unrepentant liar. Or, should I say vlad tepes, the racist?

        It’s never hard to spot your bigotry and socialist drivel. You could at least try a little bit harder to not be so obvious. It’s embarrassing.

        You don’t know shit about Florida concealed carry law, nor the process to go through and actually get a license to do so there. Not that it should even be required to get a license in the first place, and you and I both know damn well that shouldn’t be the case, you gun-grabbing fascist. Your apparent ignorance of companies like Second Call Defense and USCCA offering complete coverage for just these kinds of situations is also not surprising. Your alleged personal anecdotes amount to nothing, anyway. Shut the fuck up.

      9. avatar Bob says:

        I can understand requiring a firearms safety course. As was stated this is not 1776. At that time people had a closer relationship with firearms as defensive weapons and a tool for putting food on the table. This is not the case as much today. While some families today have a history of hunting and therefore, firearms safety. I learned from my father who learned from his father, etc. I passed it to my children and continue to pass it on to my grandchildren. I understand this is not the norm in most families, especially those living in more urban areas, nowadays.

    3. avatar AC says:

      In America there is no such thing as a “constitutional right”. What we have are recognized God given rights that are protected by our Constitution… in other words they should be referred to as “constitutionally protected rights”, and this is an important difference because please understand that whatever government gives it can also take away. If you accept the notion that our rights come from government then those rights are then also subject to the whims of government and can be regulated, diminished and even revoked… and is that not what we have seen happen to us that in fact has left us today with a very much “watered down” version of the rights that the Founding Fathers intended us to have? We have allowed them to convert our Rights into government granted privileges that are subject to regulation, licensing and the payment of fees.

      And here is something else to consider: The states created a Constitutional Republic with a “limited federal government”. Furthermore, the Constitution is a compact (a contract or agreement) that spells out the specific enumerated powers being granted to the federal government (all other powers being reserved to the states and to the people). And so under recognized and accepted contract law, all amendments to a contract permanently alter the original document because the terms and conditions of an amendment supersede those of the original document. Therefore, regardless of what they believe the original document contains or how “they” misapply or misinterpret certain provisions in the Constitution that they believe helps to make their claim that they are granted the authority to regulate the firearms industry (via the supremacy clause & commerce clause), the simple truth is that the Second Amendment overrides and supersedes everything that came before it and so “the Right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed” is, and shall remain, the supreme law of the land at least until such time as another amendment is passed that specifically addresses the provisions contained within the Second Amendment. As a case in point; remember that the 18th Amendment created a ban on alcoholic beverages and made Prohibition the supreme law of the land. But even after Prohibition was recognized to have been a monumental mistake, it could not be undone via any act of the Congress or by a Presidential Executive Order… and why not? Because Prohibition was the law of the land, ending Prohibition required the passing of another constitutional amendment and so it was not until the passage of the 21st Amendment that the era of Prohibition finally came to an end. The rule of law is clear and must be followed; and so any change or alteration to the Constitution requires the passage of a constitutional amendment… all other actions short of the amendment process are unlawful and invalid. And nothing has ever been done to change or alter the fact that “the Right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed’ is the supreme law of the land.

    4. avatar sparkyinWI says:

      You are 100% right and the SCOTUS that does this will never be seen or happen. The decline in the respect for the Constitution is too great now and too far gone. And previous SCOTUS are much to blame for this.

  2. avatar Wiregrass says:

    What kind of background check is Florida doing if the existing provisions can’t detect out of state felonies?

    1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

      Probably exactly the kind of check that would find anything that was entered into the system but gotta hype up some nonsense to get the commoners to tolerate more infringement.

    2. avatar GeorgiaBob says:

      “Florida could keep gun licensing fingerprints to better stop those with out-of-state felonies from renewing carry permits.”

      Liberal Democrat Nikki Fried has not discovered even one case of anyone in Florida trying to renew a concealed carry permit who has an “out-of-state” felony. The current Florida rules require fingerprints and a background check to obtain a permit and a background check to renew. The current rules also require a firearm safety class. The new rules are another anti-gun democrat’s effort to restrict second amendment rights.

  3. avatar Sam I Am says:

    Something’s amiss with this post. Seems to start in the middle, with no context.

    1. avatar enuf says:

      Agreed, reads like half the ingredients were left out of the recipe.

      We have to go to the link and the story before we know what the heck TTAG is talking about.

      https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/state/florida-firearms-instructors-leery-of-gun-bill-that-may-mean-better-business

      “TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — A new bill requiring more training to carry concealed weapons in Florida isn’t getting support from those who stand to benefit, the instructors. ”

      Oh, okay, so the deal is Florida wants to demand more training of gun owners and trainers say they’d love the money but think it an unconstitutional infringement.

      Okay, got it.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “Oh, okay, so the deal is Florida wants to demand more training of gun owners and trainers say they’d love the money but think it an unconstitutional infringement. Got it.”

        Thanx

  4. avatar Casey says:

    As an ex-instructor at one of the larger schools, I concur. We have plenty of business just with people who WANT to pay money and WANT to learn, and we don’t need resentful people who are only there to get the certificate in our classes. It drags the quality waaaay down.

    I once had a student who was not in the right mindset, dangerously inattentive, focusing on his phone because he “already knew all this shit.” We invited him to leave (against his will, because he had a court order to attend training as part of sentencing for an negligent discharge), but we don’t need the money that badly.

    Having then moved to a state that does have mandatory training for a CCW, I researched and went WAAAAY out of my way to find the best trainer I could, because I didn’t want to sit through a bastardized NRA course (which I’ve also taught for years) and wanted to learn SOMETHING from SOMEBODY. Instead that top-rated state-certified instructor pointed a gun at me, the class, and bystanders several times (“It’s okay, it’s not loaded), skipped over all the state laws (“It’s okay, we all grew up here”), and taught the most asinine seen-it-on-TV grip and stance that it has ever been my misfortune to see impressed upon people who don’t know any better. That’s what you get when you mandate training – bare minimum people teaching less-than-minimum content in exchange for a large and guaranteed-if-you-want-your-rights check.

    1. avatar bob says:

      And THAT is exactly why I no longer pursue training around here.

      Last class I tried to hook somebody up with was a 2 day class on concealed carry laws for our state, should take 2 hours to discuss but they made it a live fire 2 day course. $1500 to spend 2 days teaching you concealed carry laws only.
      No thanks, what a scam.

  5. avatar Shire-man says:

    I was a trainer when I lived in a state that required the basic safety training to get a permit.
    I got certified as a trainer because every trainer I encountered was a crook purely out for personal gain and didn’t care one bit about anyones rights. Not surprisingly this was also the predominant mind set of the FFL’s.

    They worked together to jack up their prices. NRA basic safety was going for $250-$400 a seat essentially pricing out the lower class. Not to mention trying to get a day off to attend. All so you could sit while the trainer read out loud the safety book verbatim and walked you through the multiple choice quiz at the end.

    I charged nothing, actually taught the material with discussion and examples and cases, went out of my way to accommodate time availability of the students and paid the range fees out of my own pocket. Also not surprising, if a range found out I was cutting into their training racket I was barred from returning and would have to find another.

    My mission was to train and get permitted as many people as possible and I did alright for the couple of years I was training while living there.

    Maybe things have changed in the past 15 years since I lived there but I have a feeling if ABC wants to talk to a business that would happily shit all over the rights of the people that make their business possible for a quick payday they’ll find one.

    1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

      That sounds suspiciously like New Jersey…… and if you were doing that in the mid 90’s I think you may have had one of my friends as a student.

    2. avatar napresto says:

      The trainings I’ve done here in upstate NY have been pretty good, and I haven’t seen a lot of what you reference (usually the opposite). I wonder if being in such a restrictive state helps trainers and gun store owners recognize the larger issues at stake. I’ve also noticed that NY pistol owners prize their permits and handguns far more than owners in freer states, likely because we have to jump through so many hoops to exercise our rights.

      1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

        Any recommendations for the Albany/Columbia/Rensselaer county area?

        1. avatar Napresto says:

          Alas, I’m further west than that. Everything I’ve done has been pretty basic in any case. Good classes, but not necessarily advanced classes.

        2. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

          Given how long it’s been since I’ve done any real training basic isn’t a bad idea and no worries on location there are options it’s just handy to have a nonyelp review.

  6. avatar Biatec says:

    Wonderfully stated.

  7. avatar enuf says:

    All I’ll say is the training in my state to get a concealed weapon permit was a pathetic joke, as was the instructor. I left knowing what I knew when I went in, because I had studied the law and grown up with guns with many years of experience behind me.

    For me the value of the permit is in avoiding an NICS fee at the gun shop, along with the wait if it is running slow. Also I can go into places that serve alcohol so long as the gun is concealed and I do not imbibe.

    It ain’t perfect, but it is what it is until something better comes along.

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      The training course I took for the NV permit was five days, with 35 students attending.

      Read that again…five…days…

      Could have been boiled down to a single four-hour session.

      1. avatar Red in CO says:

        …how? I’m not saying I don’t believe you, I do. I’m just trying to wrap my head around how an unscrupulous moron could possibly stretch that material out to five freaking days

        1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          I signed up for the course with the understanding that it was four days, range training only. Didn’t know until the end of the final day that some of the students were staying for a fifth, which was necessary to get your NV permit. There wasn’t an option, apparently, to just skip the first four and take a single day of instruction for the CCW.

    2. avatar Mark H says:

      There is no NICS Fee. Period, Dot, End of story.
      Some states have a fee if they run the check instead of the FBI, but there is no NICS fee.

      1. avatar enuf says:

        There are FFL’s who charge a fee to run the check as it takes up some of their time. Especially so on transfers from online sellers. Example would be on one of my rifles, $25 for the FFL to receive it and run the check or $15 if you have a concealed weapon permit.

  8. avatar Andrew Lias says:

    He probably realizes that it’s a step down a long road to put him out of work entirely. Not only that but he knows that he’ll get enough work to keep him busy for a long time no mandate required if he’s any good.

    1. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

      Andrew, if you’re referring to Charlie Strickland and he’s the Charlie Strickland I’m thinking of, then yeah, he’s good. He and his partner, J.D Johnson, run a top notch operation. Been growing expodentially since they opened.

      1. avatar Ken says:

        Yep, it’s that Charlie.

        1. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

          Ken, you must be a local boy too.

        2. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

          Ken, something else occurred to me just now. Here’s two retired L.E.O.s who open a range, teach CCW classes, offer the opportunity to shoot full auto weapons to those who might otherwise never have the opportunity, run matches, sell firearms, market their own line of holsters for CCW, allow you to do the same kind of scenario video training we did at the academy and oppose anti 2A laws even though those laws could increase their bottom line. And that’s just what I can think of off the top of my head. Wonder what the “cops just want to take our guns” crowd thinks of that?

        3. avatar Ken says:

          Yep, local TLH as can be. Nearly all my life.
          As to the “cops just want to take our guns crowd” unfortunately there are some cops out there that would like nothing more. Having been associated with a couple of nationwide leo-centric organizations, I’ve met entirely too many. Fortunately, around here, with the exception of some of the higher-ups, I don’t know any working leo’s that are bent that way.

        4. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

          Ken, me either. In my experience those anti 2A admin are political hacks. Witness Walt. We’ll see see about your new chief. Those street cops that are anti 2A tend to be “badge heavy.” Leo’s should be the most humble person on the scene. Unless others won’t let them be.

  9. avatar "keep yur comments to yourself"possum says:

    I live in constitutional Carry state, I don’t know maybe a little training might help some people,,. Visiting with my neighbor she showed me the gunm her BF gave her for protection, a Bearcat by golly and not for sale, but anyway she didn’t know how to load it but did know to pull this thing back and squeeze the trigger to make it go off. And No she don’t need me to show her anything about the gunm because her BF already did..

  10. avatar GunnyGene says:

    ““Unfortunately, you’re going to have those individuals who don’t understand that what we’re doing is common-sense regulation to protect our citizens,” Fried said. ”[They] feel that any type of regulation on guns at all is an infringement. We do not believe that is the case.”

    IT’S THE AGENDA,Y’ALL. Thou shalt not question the AGENDA.

  11. avatar former water walker says:

    I live in ILLinois. A mile east is Indiana. ILL requires a BS 16 hours of nothing a but a bandaid. Indiana requires a small check for lifetime carry. Guess which state has lower crime?!? Good on these guy’s!!!

  12. avatar napresto says:

    Shouldn’t this article just be re-titled, “ABC Perplexed?” It covers a lot more relevant ground that way.

  13. avatar moreadventuresonotherplanets says:

    quote—————– “Right now, the potential disqualifying information of crimes committed out of state is a dangerous blind spot that this legislation will fix with a fingerprint retention system, helping keep weapons out of the wrong hands.”————quote

    This law makes perfect sense as anyone can get a fake drivers license but finger prints will catch the out of state people with criminal records and prevent them from legally buying handguns in the State.

    Mandatory training is a good idea as well.

    1. avatar Napresto says:

      FL permitting already includes mandatory training (I have an out of state permit and have done the process). This new legislation requires continued training (of the same entry level variety) to renew. That is, more of the same training for people who already have it. It’s redundant, won’t improve safety, costs a bunch of money, and infringes on people’s rights.

      Fingerprints and a background check are also required for an FL permit already. This is just more “hassle gun owners until they give up” legislation. Don’t be fooled, and don’t buy into it.

    2. avatar Void says:

      Cool story bro

    3. avatar jwm says:

      Fascists loves them some ‘poll’ taxes.

    4. avatar Excedrine says:

      STFU crisco kid, the unrepentant liar. Or should I say vlad tepes, the racist?

      It’s not hard to spot your socialist drivel and bigotry. You could at least try a little harder to not be so obvious. It’s embarrassing.

  14. avatar Timothy Toroian says:

    Two words to be very wary of, “National Standards”.

  15. avatar Sam Hill says:

    Just more chaf to obscure the real agenda. We are already enslaved. They just want a bigger whip.

  16. avatar A. C. says:

    The media, such as ABC is quick to criticize businesses that go for money over beliefs in other areas. Once again, they show themselves to be un-selfaware hypocrites.

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