A New York Hospital System is Building a Gun Owner Registry One Patient At a Time

Sample Patient Intake Form

Sample Patient Intake Form

Northwell Health, New York State’s largest healthcare provider, is beginning a pilot program ostensibly intended to determine their patients’ “risk for firearm injury.”

Starting later this month, Northwell staff at two Long Island hospitals and a third on Staten Island will add a question to their routine screening of emergency room patients: Do you have a gun in your house? …

As part of the Northwell study, clinicians in the three hospitals’ emergency departments will ask patients specific questions about having firearms in their homes and determine their risk of injury. Each response is scored and embedded into the patient’s electronic health record, which will help guide discussions and establish next steps for care. Motivational interviews, education and other resources will also be available.

This isn’tn particularly new. Care providers have been using Medicare/Medicaid CMS-approved patient intake forms with firearms questions for years. Complain to CMS about the boundary violation and they’ll deny responsibility, explaining that a private company created the forms and added the questions on their own. But if you lie about your guns, CMS won’t pay your claim.

The Northwell program, though, takes this to a new level by hitting everyone who goes to the ER, whether they’re covered by Medicare or privately insured. And it targets those who may not be thinking clearly or rationally at the time. There’s generally a good reason they’re in the ER.

You may think that using electronic medical records as a gun owner database is safe enough, because the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 keeps your records from prying non-medical eyes. You’d be wrong.

Covered entities may disclose protected health information to law enforcement officials for law enforcement purposes as required by law (including court orders, court-ordered warrants, subpoenas) and administrative requests; or to identify or locate a suspect, a fugitive, a material witness, or a missing person.

Yes, the police — or the ATF — can ask to review medical records, including answers to those pesky gun questions.

What will the questions be? Northwell is vague about that and did not respond to my inquiry.

Suppose a questioner asks where the gun you own is stored, and a person who is disoriented with a high fever — or was given pain medication in the ambulance on the way to the ER — tells them they keep it in their night stand in case of burglars. That wouldn’t be in compliance with New York state’s safe storage law. Is the bedside pistol licensed and registered?

Perhaps that disoriented person needs to be red flagged just to be sure. Wouldn’t having that record be convenient for the police? The answers given in the ER to the gun questions might be the basis for getting the red flag order against him.

Collecting data from disoriented ER patients seems a bad practice. Suppose our hypothetical feverish patient babbles out a description of his imaginary gun room. I do believe Northwell is going to have some data quality control issues, even aside from gangbangers in for gunshot wounds simply lying to them. Or sensible people correctly thinking it’s none of their damned business.

comments

  1. avatar Dennis Sumner says:

    Baby steps, folks! Like I keep tellin ya.

    1. avatar lavris says:

      Tower Health in south eastern PA is asking the same questions.

  2. avatar Scott says:

    Just say no

    1. avatar Anonymous says:

      ^This. Just lie to them. I advocate lying to nosy people for fun and entertainment.

      Every time my late father withdrew from his IRA, the bank would ask him what he was going to do with it. The bank said they were required to ask. My father said, “I’m going to buy 50 lbs of tobacco, Unbag it on the floor, and light it on fire and smoke the entire thing, today.”

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        I like your dad. That’s pretty close to what I would say.

      2. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “This. Just lie to them. I advocate lying to nosy people for fun and entertainment.”

        These people are not stupid. If it isn’t in the law already, lying to medical personnel will soon become a felony. Oh, how will they know? Answer: how many ways do authorities have to investigate people? Get a speeding ticket? Cops ask to review medical records, and discover you said “NO” about guns, but have disclosed you are legally carrying concealed. And so many other circumstances that can allow police to look into your background.

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Leave it blank, or throw it away.

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Leave it blank, or throw it away.”

          For the authorities, either would be counted a “yes”.

        3. avatar Cloudbuster says:

          If they get your for lying about your guns on a medical questionnaire, they were determined to get you for something and it was probably time for you to be using your guns, anyway.

        4. avatar Anonymous says:

          …lying to medical personnel will soon become a felony

          Even the left wouldn’t tolerate that. They’d pick up a placard, protest in the street, and then riot while taking a huge dump on a police car while police watched and did nothing, and then they’d loot a store and raze it to the ground… while the police watched and did nothing.

          So… the idea that lying to medical personnel about business that is none of their business is a big no-no – is WAYYYYYYYYY… wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy wayyyy down there – on the list.

        5. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Even the left wouldn’t tolerate that.”

          The same Left that wants to disarm the public? The same Left that doesn’t want LE to be armed? The same Left that forced the VA and Social Security to find ways to declare people incapable of managing their own affairs (because they can no longer balance a checkbook, etc.) so those people can be place don a “prohibited person” list?

          That Left?

      3. avatar GS650G says:

        I’d tell whoever asked me that I’ve run up quite a tab at their Moms and need to settle up.

        NOTGDB.

  3. avatar Leigh says:

    Like Nancy Reagan said: Just say NO.

    1. avatar Ranger Rick says:

      ☝What he said.

  4. avatar HEGEMON says:

    Always say NO. It’s none of their business. Funny there’s no question about unprotected gay sex. No question about sharing dirty heroin needles. No pedophilia question.

    1. avatar Casey says:

      Well, there is a question about gay sex. It’s the reason I am not eligible for donating blood, even though *I* have full STD/HIV screens every 3 months as part of my PrEP treatment to ensure I don’t have any terrible diseases, but Joe-Bob Rando-straight-guy can stick it anybody he wants and is presumed to be clean.

      So your example needs some work.

      1. avatar Jonathan-Houston says:

        There is a question about multiple sexual partners on the blood donation questionnaire, which is not specific to anyone’s gender or that of their partners. So there.

        1. avatar Jim Bob says:

          The Red Cross questionnaire I fill out definitely asks about male/male sexual relations, among many other things.

      2. avatar KenW says:

        Not just gay sex, my Insulin formerly was animal derived and thanks to mad cow I am not allowed to donate blood. The odds I will ever get mad cow are slim to none but since there is no test to screen out those who might have it they ban all of us to be safe.

        1. avatar KenW says:

          And I am surprised no one has mentioned the welcome to Medicare or the yearly Medicare questionnaire you get at the start of every yer. Lots of intrusive questions on it.

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “And I am surprised no one has mentioned the welcome to Medicare or the yearly Medicare questionnaire you get at the start of every yer. Lots of intrusive questions on it.”

          Really?

          I thought it was just junk mail, and tossed it.

        3. avatar KenW says:

          Sam I am, this is a medicare visit at the Drs office. Last time was 4 pages of repetitive questions with feelers on your mental health , they will give you 3 words and later on ask you to repeat them or draw a clock pointing to some time etc .And lots of questions on how you feel, are you depressed and so on. I take it you are not on medicare yet.

        4. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “I take it you are not on medicare yet.”

          That would be nice.

        5. avatar KenW says:

          Not really, you get to be old as part of the deal. And my previous insurance cost less and covered more.

        6. avatar Herb Allen says:

          I was stationed in Germany more than 35 years ago and am not allowed to donate blood. Mad cow.

      3. avatar Anymouse says:

        The fact that you have a PrEP treatments is an indictation of heightened risk. The time between exposure and infection can be less than 3 months, and your PrEP isn’t 100% effective, hence your periodic testing. These are hard lessons learned since the 80’s, such as Ryan White.

      4. avatar Everett Lunday says:

        Thank you for your anecdote.

  5. avatar seatex says:

    I would just say, “None of your business, Nanny.” As is my personal safety when I’m at home, and not in your hospital.

  6. avatar Grumpy Old Guy says:

    I rarely complete personal questions on medical forms, I skip firearms and many others. It is none of their business and I never had anyone refuse me service. Sometimes they question me saying you missed some items and I simply tell them its personal and not related to my medical issues. I do the form so the office staff is not hassled for failing to ask, as the questions usually come from some faceless, non medical management type. I just don’t answer beyond the basics. The less personal information out there, the lower the risk of it being misused. HIPPA privacy laws are a joke.

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      I have never yet seen any firearm-related question on any medical form presented to me.

      1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

        It’s probably a nursing intake form for assessment or similar.

        Being admitted, a nurse comes in your room and determines medical history, home medications, vitals ect.

        This charting is discover-able in a medical malpractice suit.

        Now the VA, which I’m seen at always asks the mental hygiene questions. Are you suicidal, do you want to hurt yourself, do you want to hurt others. (I always pause..just a little at that one) Do you feel like you have no purpose. Do loud noises make you apprehensive. Blah, blah..But nothing about firearms yet, I’m sure it’s coming though.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “But nothing about fireams yet,…”

          Not needed, the VA and Medicare are trying to gather enough information to put you on a government “prohibited person” list.

        2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          Actually, MJ, my doctor’s office recently started asking those “mental hygiene” questions.

    2. avatar Tempestmark2 says:

      My wife got tired of filling out medical forms and listing the medications that cause an allergic reaction and NEVER having anyone pay attention to them, especially the doctors prescribing meds. One day she finally had enough and under the question asking why she was being seen that day she wrote “I have feathers”. NO one read it.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “One day she finally had enough and under the question asking why she was being seen that day she wrote “I have feathers”. NO one read it.”

        Now, that’s funny. Gotta use it one day.

  7. avatar Forp says:

    How is this legal? And don’t the 2nd, 4th, 5th and 14th amendments protect against this sort of thing?

    1. avatar Fire & Brimstone says:

      They ignore the Constitution, that joke they call HIPAA, and everything else.

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Anyone can ask you anything. One example of a reasonable answer would be “Go piss up a rope!”

  8. avatar Geo Washington says:

    PILOT PROGRAM? LIARS!!! Infringe here infringe there never let a crisis situation go to waste. Ya all gotta die someday. I refuse to answer liberal medical registration blackmail questions when I am in need of medical help. If you dont want to help me screw off. My family will sue you for neglecting your medical oath and duty by denying me service if I die. Do I walk by your wounded ass and and ask if your are a liberal before I yank you out of a burning car??? Dictator democrat liberal bull schiff tactics. New York is a Libby lockdown riot approved state. What’s next political or profile questions and killer service doctors? Wait they already do that. Some Muslim doctors kill christians all the time when they are claiming to help them.

  9. avatar Leigh says:

    So…says “at home”…what about homeless people? Seems like a biased and insensitive question. They should sue.

    1. avatar jwm says:

      In CA you have to have multiple proofs of a permanent residence before you can buy a firearm.

      The aclu has never questioned this violation of the human and civil rights of the homeless.

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        …to say nothing of our absurd ammo BGC system. I’m a law-abiding gun owner with many guns, and many years of professional experience and training. Yet as of last July 2019 when the law went into effect, I cannot buy any ammo within the state because none of my guns are registered with CADOJ (due to completely legal reasons such as grandfathering).

        So no soup for me. Thanks, Newsom & Becerra. [/sarc]

        You want to ruin something? Let government take the reins.

        1. avatar Mark N says:

          Buy s ruger .22 . It is cheap, and the with the one gun yiu can buy any ammo you want

        2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          That would, however, end my advantage of being off of CADOJ’s database. I know, I know, contradiction, but if I have the choice of staying off their database or buying more ammo, I’ll stay off the database. I have plenty of ammo to last me for years, and certainly until the BGC law is overturned.

          https://michellawyers.com/rhode-v-becerra/

      2. avatar LarryinTX says:

        The ACLU is ACLuseless.

  10. avatar Thundervoice says:

    While the gun question bugs me the most, it’s not the only offensive question on the form. Why does the ER doctor need to know about whether I have smoke detectors, wear seat belts, or any of the other non-health related questions? And if I took one dip of snuff as teenager and never did it again, their question implies I’m supposed to be identified as a prior tobacco user? Get real. This is more proof that certain groups think they are entitled to knowing more about what you do than you know. Unfortunately, with the ability to develop and store ever increasing quantities of big data, we are going to see more and more of this. Some intrusions will be direct questions like what is on this form and others indirect/hidden intrusions like tracking movement through your phone. Eventually, we are going to get to a point where each new child will have a chip implanted in them when they are born. Adults will have to get them whenever they go in for medical treatment. Imagine a chip that continuously monitors your mental (happy, sad, angry, excited, etc.) and medical (blood sugar, alcohol, medicine, etc.) status and then transmits that information to others. The concepts of privacy and mind your own business are a thing of the past.

    1. avatar Hush says:

      The other questions are mere fluff to distract from and an attempt to minimize the affect of the weapons question(s).

    2. avatar Herb Allen says:

      Fitbits do that kind of monitoring now.

  11. avatar Chris Morton says:

    LIE. You owe them NOTHING.

  12. avatar Forl says:

    Patient bleeding from a compound fractured femur*
    Doctor- sir, do you have any firearms in the house.
    Patient- WHAT!? MY LEG IS SHATTERED PLEASE HELP!
    Doctor- sir, I need you to answer this question before I can perform treatment.
    Patient- I’M FEELING DIZZY…
    Doctor- SIR, DO YOU HAVE ANY FIREARMS!!
    Patient- gurgling noises*
    DOCTOR- &$&[email protected]! WE’RE LOSING HIM!
    Patient- takes last breath*
    DOCTOR- we lost him…time of death 10:40am, cause of death covid-19 with firearms complications

    1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

      Great example!

  13. avatar Darkman says:

    Just leave it blank. There is no law that requires that or any question to be answered. Just don’t lie. Fortunately with my physician that question is a Non Sequitur. It has no bearing on the reason why I requested his services. I was asked this question by a nurse a couple of times. I always answer the same way. “Next Question”.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Lie like a rug, unless it is somehow a sworn statement, in which case you should find a different provider.

      1. avatar LampOfDiogenes says:

        Unfortunately, it doesn’t have to be a “sworn statement”. There are various laws (depending on whether you are VA, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.) that make it illegal to lie on one of their forms. VA, Medicare, and Medicaid regulations are explicit (I have experience of this) that “untruthful” statements on their forms are violations of their regulations, and subject to punishment, up to and including denial of service/coverage.

        Don’t underestimate either the sneakiness or the pettiness of bureaucrats. And don’t believe for a moment that they won’t eventually require you to provide a urine sample and a stool sample and a blood sample as a CONDITION to coverage/treatment. They are so much smarter than you are, doncha know. They NEED to know this information . . . for YOUR own good. Just ask them.

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Violating a regulation is not breaking a law, you cannot be prosecuted for refusing to comply with arbitrary rules set out by unelected bureaucrats. Ignore the questions if you wish.

  14. avatar Imayeti says:

    Hippa leaks like a colander. Convenience stores in one city I worked got rid of those employed and wouldn’t hire people with chronic or history oc certain conditions. Asthma? Back injury? Etc? You get medical care and your information goes in various forms to credit agencies, various insurance company employees. Say you don’t have firearms? But you’re an NRA member it says right there. Licenses? Renew a medical license such as nursing license and you have to answer medical questions. Eye exam to renew your drivers license? Airmans’ physical required for pilots? That information is a public record! I’ve learned so much about this I wish I could live on an island!

  15. avatar That’s not really what’s happening says:

    Uh, just check ‘no’ and go about your day. Crisis averted.

    1. avatar Montana Actual says:

      Not really. Why is it relevant on a hospital form? I’d rather skip it than check no, along with any other stupid questions, but it shouldn’t be there. That’s the “crisis”.

      1. avatar Anymouse says:

        Skipping is answering “yes.” Non-gun owners will answer “no” without hesitation. Only a gun owner would oppose the question.

    2. avatar LampOfDiogenes says:

      What color is the sky on your world????

      You are either an ignorant noob, or deliberately trying to gaslight us. Either way, not cool. Either put yourself some knowledge, or STFU. But giving “advice” to people that potentially puts them in legal jeopardy?? That’s either stupid or evil.

      Which are you??

  16. avatar GunnyGene says:

    Boy howdy, could I have some fun with that questionnaire!! But they need to have a 3rd check box on many of those questions – labeled FO . 🙂

  17. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

    Draw another little square. Next to it write in “Fuck you, you communist bastards.” Put a check mark in the square.

    1. avatar GunnyGene says:

      I’m lazy, can I abbreviate “communist”? 😉

      Btw, here is MS they don’t ask – they assume that everyone is armed 24/7/365. (that includes LEO) 🙂

  18. avatar Shire-man says:

    Hasn’t this been SOP for a number of years now?
    I remember at least 4 years ago I had a new patient form just like this.
    Either skip the question or lie.
    I don’t get why anyone would feel compelled to be honest when there is no enforcement or penalty.
    Especially when the situation would be detrimental to yourself.
    Politicians do it 24/7. Surely you can do it for a stupid unenforceable form.

    1. avatar Rusty - Molon Labe - Chains says:

      Just like when some anonymous person calls on the phone they do not deserve an honest answer.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Really? In the unusual event I even answer, I always tell the truth, “fuck you”.

  19. avatar LifeSavor says:

    My wife needed to have some blood tests so her doctor sent us to the lab at a local hospital. The hospital had a lengthy questionnaire looking to establish a complete medical history (but guns not included). They said all answers were required before we could have the lab work completed. We just walked. Went to a walk-in lab. Done.

  20. avatar Old Guy in Montana says:

    I’m waiting for possum to relate to ED medical providers about the trans-dimensional, thermo-molecular, reality-ending bomb* he is building…should cause quite a stir.

    Pretty sure that the NY Times…The Grey Lady…The Bastion of Trvth will trumpet the news against possum in order to garner another fraudulent Pulitzer like the one they received for their 100% support of the bogus collusion charges leveled against President Trump.

    *apologies to possum for not remembering exactly the name or nature of his device.

  21. avatar jakee308 says:

    How could they not pay your claim? Unless they have access from somewhere else that you own a firearm, they don’t know any different.

    I have long recommended that people lie on their info forms. If a question does not refer to or have anything to do with your current visit, answer with a lie. Make sure it’s a lie that keeps you out of trouble tho.

    And don’t answer with a 2nd amendment screed or ranting about it being none of their business cause that will just make them flag it for reasons of your stability.

    And now that Doctors have become adjunct Federal Agents you have even more fear of what they can do with that form and what they can put down in your medical records. (you don’t know the half of what they put in. You only see the very outer part of what they decided is important to note or that they are required to note.

    Fortunately I’ve never seen a notice that you are violating some law by not telling the truth on those forms. Same as talking with your doctor. And you can always claim you misunderstood the question. How can they prove otherwise?

  22. avatar CentralVirginian says:

    What a dumb question. Who has “a firearm?” The clear answer is no I don’t have “a firearm” at home.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Yeah, and then there’s the ATF definition of “firearm”.

  23. avatar paul says:

    I get questions about my pain level(complete with smiley/frown faces) – I have chronic pain and need pain meds every day. I can adjust them myself, I don’t need their help. The same with questions about depression, the smiley/frown faces are designed to have a reason to take control of any firearms you may own. I don’t play their game, I tell them one person’s 5 out of 10 in pain is another’s 3 out of 10, so it is really meaningless. They do not know what kind of pain that person has gone through or even if the meds will help because people are different.
    I tell them I am in pain and happy, happy, happy with smiley faces. Just because you might be depressed doesn’t mean you are going to harm yourself.

  24. avatar enuf says:

    Where you live likely has a lot to do with whether or not you will be asked the gun question by your doctor. I’ve filled out many intake forms for a disabled family member with some rather serious and chronic medical problems. Have never seen the gun question, not in the primary care doc’s office, neurology, emergency rooms, cardiologist, and on and on for forty years.

    But that’s Arizona.

    Does not surprise me to see the question being tried in a state where Hoplophobia is the leading cause of moronic laws and tragic boating accidents.

    1. avatar Dude says:

      I live in a red state, in a very red district, and I’ve been asked. The nurse probably noticed my reaction when she asked, and she said, you don’t have to answer that, so I didn’t.

      1. avatar Old Guy in Montana says:

        My Doc and I duck hunt together…his association does not have that question on their forms. He despises HIPAA for its intrusiveness, the fact that bureaucrats, insurance salesmen, LEOs and a whole host of others now have access to formerly privileged doctor / patient information and the fact that he had to hire a bunch of people just to handle the records keeping requirements…which drove up the prices (all around the country) medical practices have to charge for their services.

        We have a Democrat president to thank for the HIPAA nightmare – Bill (aka.I never had sex with “that” woman) Clinton. Between him and Obama(care) the reasons for our escalating medical costs are pretty self-explanatory…rat bastiches!

        President Trump has signed EO’s to bring pharmaceutical costs back down out of the stratosphere and the Left is trying to pillory him…search for how many Democrat (and R) pols have substantial investments in Big Pharma and you’ll understand why the President has to rely on E.O.’s.

  25. avatar Lance says:

    Check ‘no’ and move on.

  26. avatar Mad Max says:

    No, I don’t have a firearm at home. It’s right here in my holster….

  27. avatar Illinois_Minion says:

    Do I have “a” gun? = NO

    (I have several.)

  28. avatar guy says:

    That’s sum buuuuuuuul $h!t!

  29. avatar Pb_fan59 says:

    Just write ” Due To Privacy Concerns, I Choose to not Participate” in large letters across as many lines as possible… then hand it back to them. Then it is no longer legal for them to further pursue it. ( oldest son is 5th year law in San Fran )

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      Essentially “taking the Fifth” is an admission of guilt, as far as cops and DAs are concerned. The action you recommend puts one in the “yes” category, which provides what the authorities want. Also, laws can be written such as to deny medical treatment to anyone who refuses to answer the question. Even the government and private medical insurance groups can make that part of their “benefits”.

      1. avatar Pb_fan59 says:

        I believe that the legal term is something like boundary infringement and not compliant with MOST state statutes… sort of a polite way of saying ” intercourse you and your equestrian transport “.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “I believe that the legal term is something like boundary infringement and not compliant with MOST state statutes…”

          Here is the most effective way to deal with reluctance to provide information:
          – First, declare that the informan requested is submitted voluntarily
          – Second, add this provision –“Failure to provide information requested on this form may result in significant processing delays and/or the denial of …..”

          Action beats reaction. Government always gets the first shot, and the individual is always on the defensive, reacting.

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Sam, the best example of what you describe is the Privacy Act. Does anybody even remember that? You (as a customer) had to read and sign the Privacy Act statement on the back of literally ANYTHING you did, and that is what it said, your decision to sign a waiver of your Privacy Act rights was completely voluntary, if you did not sign then fuck you, go away. It became more and more meaningless until we finally noticed it was gone, no idea how or exactly when.

        3. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Does anybody even remember that? ”

          Oh yes. The Privacy Act, like all laws and regulations, as so conditional that ultimately, the exception was the norm. It is the way we federal bureaucrats schemed to control the behavior of the great unwashed.

          What was infuriating were those instances where the public found ways to legally evade our controls. For instance, to reduce an activity, it was common to put a fee (tax) on that activity. Our mindset was that if a person was intent on doing that one thing, they would pay our price. Then it would be learned that the public would reduce the regulated behavior by approximating through a different activity that rendered the same result. Then we would issue regulations on that new behavior, and the public would change again.

          People, the public, taxpayers. Government would be better off without them.

  30. avatar Kau Mar says:

    As an ED nurse for twenty years in the blue lands of the politically correct I have been privy or exposed to a lot of this BS from senior leadership (never the team doing the work) . As caregivers we don’t give a shite what is in your home unless you do.
    Your heart attack, your kidney stone ,your femur fracture is my job. The a hole who cares about these questions is someone who wants to make their bones on a government grant or get a posh teaching position . Always tell medical people to F off to any question you do not like we are a service not an authority, we either help or are part of problem

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      I’m thinking ER nurse, y’think? An ED nurse has certain unsavory mental images involved.

  31. avatar Boundary Violation says:

    Say No is the easy way out but,

    Boundary Violations & Hippocratic Oath in Healthcare. Physicians are only allowed to ask health related questions.. not how much money you have or what you own.

    If they do..that is a Boundary Violation & u should report it to the Health Care/Hospital Administrator & Medical Board and perhaps a Lawyer.You should warn them of the Boundary Violation if it happens! They know what it is!

    Then ask them were their College degrees & qualifications are from on Firearms!

    Its like practicing Medicine without a Degree/License or Qualification/Experience.

  32. avatar enuf says:

    Pb_fan59 says:
    September 26, 2020 at 14:44
    Just write ” Due To Privacy Concerns, I Choose to not Participate” in large letters across as many lines as possible… then hand it back to them. Then it is no longer legal for them to further pursue it. ( oldest son is 5th year law in San Fran )
    ————————————————————-

    I like that idea. But it has to be for the entire collection of questions in that section, not just the gun thing. Otherwise you are obviously saying you have guns.

  33. avatar Mike P says:

    Pediatrician : “Do you have any guns in the house?”
    Patient: “Why? Would you like to buy a couple…maybe for YOUR kids?”

    Seriously though, just say NO.

  34. avatar possum says:

    Hospital gowns are open in the back to make it easier for the person asking me about my gunms to ,” Kiss My Ass”

    1. avatar Old Guy in Montana says:

      Thank you possum for the best laugh in days!

  35. avatar Wayne says:

    My doctor knows I own guns. I see her at the range nearly every time I go. Never seen any nosy questions on any medical forms I had to fill out. If it appears, it will be ignored and NYB out to the side.

  36. avatar Bob says:

    So if my guns are locked in a safe, bolted the concrete slab and to a sheet of 1/2 “steel behind it in my unattached garage, then I am not lying when I respond no to the question “do you have any firearms in your house?”.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “So if my guns are locked in a safe, bolted the concrete slab and to a sheet of 1/2 “steel behind it in my unattached garage, then I am not lying when I respond no to the question “do you have any firearms in your house?”.”

      Seems that would be correct, even if your guns were scattered all over the floor of your garage.

  37. Private hospitals are strange places with funky politics…They ‘ve been doing something like this in Massachusetts…A Reliant Healthcare System Hospital and Webster Massachusetts. They employ private guards, and you are “screened” before you can enter the E/R for “Contraband and Weapons”. Just like a courthouse…You have to walk through a metal detector, empty your pockets into a tray. And then get the “Detection Wand” run across your body…If there is anything “in question or suspect”, call over a town copper, or tell you to leave the hospital…Also, you have to fill out a “mental health form questionnaire” that is loaded with questions about if you own weapons. What kind are THEY? Do you own any firearms, pistols/rifles/shotguns…? Do You have a Firearms license…? Thinks of that nature…They ordered my brother to take his pocket knife off of hospital grounds…

    1. Obviously the edit button is missing…so you’ll have to self-correct any android grammar errors….Thanx….

      1. avatar KenW says:

        I blame it on to small of screen for older eyes.
        And fat fingers on a touch screen too.

  38. avatar BLAMMO!! says:

    “I have one with me right now. Wanna see it?”

  39. avatar warfab says:

    This is old news. I’ve got copies of the same questionnaire the University of Rochester Medical System gave me about 5 years ago.

  40. avatar Ralph says:

    That’s great! I’m building a medical malpractice registry and I bet it will be longer than their gun owner registry. After all, medical “mistakes” are the third leading cause of death in America.

  41. avatar Peter D says:

    I am a physician who enjoys his extensive l collection of firearms including NFA items. Intake forms such as these are generalized forms intended to trigger (pun-intended) a dialogue between patient and physician. Oh – you use tobacco? Have you wanted to quit? Because if you do, there is medication to help. Do you use cocaine? Oh – probably not a great idea given your history of cardiac arrhythmia. Oh – do you have firearms? Are there children in the home? If so, probably prudent to lock up your firearms. These forms don’t exist to generate a database of gun owners just as they do not exist to generate a database of drug or tobacco users. No physician is putting a gun to your head (pun #2) to answer these questions – just leave them blank or say no. While I hope the reader of this is convinced there is no conspiracy on the part of doctors to build a registry of firearm owners, it is important to remember that medical records are not always protected. Some jobs with security clearance require access to medical records. Other times, a record may be disclosed due to court proceeding. Just always good to consider that nothing is 100% protected.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “While I hope the reader of this is convinced there is no conspiracy on the part of doctors to build a registry of firearm owners,…”

      Not suspicious of doctors, but of the system that controls them.

  42. avatar Jim Warren says:

    Start some shit with “I can’t remember.”

  43. avatar None of their business says:

    Hospitals are required to provide medical treatment. They cannot deny medical care.
    Instead of dancing around a single question, do not fill the form out en masse. Details of you as an individual can be provided verbally (diabetic, allergies, etc.) So, no “We need to know XYZ…” (from form completion)
    If they refuse, they are then in violation. (Think “if I’m unconscious, do they not provide care?”)
    Turn the tables, stay informed.
    Stay prepared.

  44. I wonder how many hospitals in the 1950’s and 1960’s asked patients if they ever engaged in acts of miscegenation.

  45. avatar LampOfDiogenes says:

    Well, since so many have been giving (really crappy, IMHO) legal advice on this thread, I’ll throw in my $0.02:

    1. If you lie on a medical questionnaire, the BEST outcome you can achieve is that it won’t get picked up – THAT time. Might, later. And trust me, the gummint and/or insurors can and will use it against you if it suits them . . . even after the fact.

    2. EVERY private insurance contract, and the regulations of EVERY government health care insuror/provider, provides that an “untruthful” answer to requests for medical information (as defined by them), that is cause for punishment, up to and including denial of service. If you receive service, after having given “untruthful” medical information, the insuror/provider has the right to seek reimbursement.

    3. While I have enough knowledge to understand that there can be issues that aren’t obvious that are relevant to a medical diagnosis, if I’m not suffering from a GSW, ‘splain to me, Lucy, how ANY question about whether or not I own firearms is relevant, medically?

    4. Rather than lie (and because I’m lazy, and choose not to simply write it out every time), I had a little stamp made up that simply says, “I assert my 5th Amendment privilege”, and I stamp that nest to such questions. Not a GODDAMN thing they can do about it, other than offer you immunity (pro tip: If they DO offer you immunity, the government can require you to answer. Private insurors, not so much.) In either case, if someone DOES see it, and says, “We require a response to this question. This response is not acceptable.”, then the reply is to (i) hand them a copy of Penn & Teller’s pocket Bill of Rights, and (ii) ask them to provide you a written statement, specifying that they are denying you treatment/coverage for refusing to respond to (list question(s)).

    There are SERIOUS legal ramifications to lying on such forms. Does it go by the wayside 99% of the time? Of course. Not interested in having any of you be the 1% exception. This is NOT trivial stuff. Don’t lie to them (as much fun as that might be), and don’t JUST say “none of your f***ing business” (as true as that might be). Make your response legal – some variation on “I refuse to respond on the grounds that it might tend to incriminate me” or “I assert my rights under the 5th Amendment”. Make THEM respond.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      I think that is a lie. Clear enough? Please provide a name, address, date, and court identification of a single person EVER successfully prosecuted in a court of law for lying about gun ownership on a medical questionaire. The entire concept is clearly bullshit.

  46. avatar Redman says:

    In ohio, i was asked, the gun question along with many other weird sex questions. I resonded no and asked what was the purpose of such strange questions – I got the old this is just for our records response. So it was time for my childs (teenager) checkup and figured they would try to probe our private lives through that avenue, and i was right. I instructed them to answer no and explained why. That is what they did. They want your child to answer, not the parent, which is also bullshit. This is crossing the line. They view firearms as a health issue, which is also bullshit.

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