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“One day, the Second Amendment as we know it will be gone. As we gear up for unimagined breakthroughs in science and human development, our bloodiest amendment will either be amended into something saner or jettisoned entirely by a generation that is no longer afraid of its own shadow. The idea of Americans without guns sounds oxymoronic right now, but the court of public opinion will vindicate Justice John Paul Stevens’ audacious vision, if we’re lucky.” – Tony Norman in Americans without guns — a thought experiment [via]

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  1. Just as soon as we get rid of all the illegals and other criminals….
    in other words…NEVER going to happen…at least not in our lifetimes…

    • With all due respect to Mr. Norman, he’s a moronic fool. The Second Amendment, like the remainder of the Bill of Rights, recognizes eternal truths about people and their relationship with governments; namely that governments will always attempt to subjugate people – by force if necessary. Mr. Norman doesn’t recognize or care about this truth because he views government as the solution to every problem and provider for all needs such as housing, healthcare, food and spending money. Conversely, he sees people as the cause of all social ills, and therefore, wishes to disarm them and put them at the mercy of the all loving, perfectly fair central government.

      • Very well said. Fantastic. And I agree. This is an issue with their fundamental viewpoint, vs ours. They think the people are the problem and control is the answer.

      • Exactly, the Second Amendment will never be repealed. Even if it was it does not change the truth that all people have the right to self defense. That Government cannot take that right away.

        The Second Amendment does not grant anything to the people. It is a simple statement that our Government is prohibited from creating laws to take away the right of self defense with any tool necessary.

    • Well – certainly the guns are here to stay. They are invented, they can’t be uninvented.

      Anyways, his article is full of false presumptions:

      even Americans who don’t own assault guns are fiercely protective of the option to walk into a gun show or retail store and buy as much military-grade weaponry as whole units possessed during the Civil War.

      Those are NOT military grade.

      How in the world can you be an American without the right to kill as many of your fellow Americans as you legitimately feel threatened by?

      False. I can’t kill anyone. And “threatened” isn’t a reliable defense in court. Proof is required. If I shoot a guy that is half my size and unarmed, and I am unharmed, then it’s very likely i’ll go to prison. Location matter too. Is it out on a public road? Is it in my home? Am I affiliated with this person? Do I know them? So no. In reality, you must prove the threat was reasonable. And Norman completely overlooks this.

      Isn’t this a right bestowed on us by God, the Devil or whatever deity was running the show when our slave Republic was in its infancy?

      F. You were never a slave, get over it. I’m sure some of my ancestors were slaves/serfs in feudalist europe. Get over it.

      The question feels absurd when presented in such an insanely paranoid way, but it is the same brutal logic that underlies a police officer’s right to kill civilians without consequence even if the victim is found to have wielded nothing more dangerous than a cell phone.

      I partially agree with this, but it has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment.

      The gun lobby merely takes logic rooted in routine institutional fear of black and brown suspects and spreads it around the civilian population.

      Not necessarily, those are called statistics.

      Even as crime drops precipitously, the gun lobby continues a drumbeat of fear and loathing that finds fertile ground in a divided country.

      No. I’m not trying to take anything away from you. It is you that is trying to take something from me.

      Because this is America, there is no obligation to retreat. Settle your business with words or guns as you see fit and deal with the legal fallout knowing that no jury will question your fundamental assumption that another person’s life is yours to take if you’re sufficiently scared.

      Why do I have to retreat when I am attacked, especially when I have a right to be there? What is this? Rights for criminals time?

      I addressed the reasonable requirement for threats above. You don’t get to kill anybody and then just claim you were scared, that’s ridiculous, and Norman is completely misinformed, or purposely misleading others on this, with his sensational, dramatic, and INACCURATE rhetoric.

      the idea of a “relic” like the Second Amendment hamstringing social and political progress in perpetuity is almost as absurd as adhering to the three-fifths compromise that once marginalized black people. Just because it is in the Constitution doesn’t make it sacred…

      The 1st amendment is a relic also. But it still very much applies, and so does the 2nd. I agree we as a people need to explain to others why it is still pertinent rather than just pointing to the constitution. Regardless, the purpose of the second amendment as it applied in 1791 is very much applicable today, just as the first amendment is.

      , especially if it contributes to the kind of carnage the Founders couldn’t have possibly imagined.

      I remember a funny quote from the founders… what was it… “I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful slavery.” You of all people should know about that right? Since you can’t stop talking about slavery hundreds of years ago.

      One day, the Second Amendment as we know it will be gone.

      Probably not by repealing it. And certainly not at the rate we are going. In fact, in another 10 to 20 years people will have 3d laser sintering right on their desktop. They could print a whole gun at the click of a button. So Norman and his freedom hating crew, need to wake up, and see what’s coming. It’s called the complete annihilation of gun control as we know it. So I would recommend Norman focus on family values, morals, principles, and quality people of quality character, rather than trying to forcefully control what they can and can’t have.

      As we gear up for unimagined breakthroughs in science and human development, our bloodiest amendment will either be amended into something saner or jettisoned entirely by a generation that is no longer afraid of its own shadow. The idea of Americans without guns sounds oxymoronic right now, but the court of public opinion will vindicate Justice John Paul Stevens’ audacious vision, if we’re lucky.

      If you’re not lucky, you’ll all be annihilated in the next civil war, OR, you could just stop trying to control everyone’s culture and lifestyle like the intolerant oppressors that you are, and accept a little tolerance for people different from you. I can own guns and not hurt anybody. That means guns aren’t the problem. The vast, vast majority of gun owners are owning guns and not hurting anyone. Only the small minuscule few have a problem, and they are the problem, not me and my guns.

      • To add: “Breakthroughs in human development”? Sorry, it seems to me that people today are much as they have been throughout recorded history. Just as we are capable of great things, we are just as capable of engaging in all of the seven deadly sins–joyfully. If you are at all a student of history, you have to recognize that we are really not very “evolved” at all.

        • You are half right, I think.

          Statistically speaking violent crime of all types including murder and mass killings is at the lowest point on a per capita basis since the fifties in the US, and worldwide. In the US we can point out that this is despite the fact that civilian gun ownership is at an all time high and that countries that have enacted strong gun control have demonstrated no causal link between gun control and a reduction in homicides (England, for example, has had higher murder rates since it’s strong gun control was enacted, even while the rest of the worlds rates have consistently fallen.)

          However, there isn’t really any evidence that this is due to an improvement of human character and ideas, and rather due to the technological advancements that have increased the quality of life of nearly everyone on the planet. People aren’t any better than they used to be, morally, they just have fewer causes of stress, more free time and more to do in that free time than ever before.

    • To Leighton Cavenish

      Spoken like a true ignorant Hill Jack Racist. 99 per cent of illegals work, pay taxes, and are not criminals. Your about as ignorant a hill jack as they get. Your so dumb you do not even realize illegals are paying for your social security benefits because they are not eligible to retire on social security and they lower your food bills astronomically because they are used as slave labor by Republican Businessmen who pay of their prostitute Republican Congress so no immigration reform laws are past like a guest worker program because then the corrupt businessmen would have to pay at least minimum wage as well as workers comp. So you idiot by voting Republican you are supporting illegal immigration. Now what part of this do you not understand. And since immigrants are the ones that have made this country great please get the hell out of the country. We do not need slime balls like you. Only real Americans who believe in the Constitution.

      • “99 per cent of illegals work, pay taxes, and are not criminals.” WRONG! They broke our immigration laws and are, therefore, by definition, criminals.

        • NO the real criminals are the Republican Businessmen who lure them here to work as slave labor. They come for one reason “jobs”. What part of this do you not understand.

        • Coming soon to America…

          “99 per cent of gun owners work, pay taxes, and are not criminals.” WRONG! They broke our gun laws and are, therefore, by definition, criminals.

          Funny how that works.

    • “comments disabled”;
      its not a regular, investigative article or, even, a valid and well-thought-out “opinion piece”;
      its just “agit-prop” ;
      hit the “ignore” button!

      • And why would it be? It’s written by a poly sci major who barely graduated from a tiny no-name school of moderate difficulty. By his own admission, he has no real marketable skills outside of journalism. He knows, again, by his own admission, more about Madonna than he doee the Federal Reserve. This is not an educated man, nor even an intellectually curious or honest man. He has no more concept of history, the Constitition, and the threats governments pose to their citizens, than do the lapdog teen brats trotted out by the civilian disarmament complex in Florida.

        This is not someone to be taken seriously. Then again, most of the opposite is true of retired Justice John Paul Stevens and he’s just as great a misguided fool. So who knows?

    • “our bloodiest amendment will either be amended into something saner or jettisoned entirely by a generation that is no longer afraid of its own shadow”

      By disabling comments, I believe it is _you_ that is afraid…

      I’d say leave him an email or call him:
      Tony Norman: [email protected] or 412-263-1631.

    • Frustrating. I’ve been copy and pasting this on as many linked news forums as I could for the past couple of weeks (as long as I didn’t need to pay for the privilege) on every related article I can find – and there’s been plenty for the past few weeks:
      “If we can all agree that:
      1. Self defense against any unlawful attack is a basic human right.
      2. That as a basic human right, self defense is and should always be considered a Civil Right of the People and thus the exercise of that right must be immune from restriction, infringement, licensing or taxation by Government at any level.
      3. That the Civil Rights of the People are not subject to the approval of the Majority Opinion and belong to every Individual regardless of their social status.
      4. That any infringement, restriction, licensing requirements or taxation levied on the free exercise of a Civil Right is a violation of that right.
      5. That any law, policy or rule that prohibits or discourages the free exercise of any Civil Right is an infringement on that right.
      6. That if a law, policy or rule that prohibits or discourages a Citizen from legally acquiring the tools, weapons or means to freely exercise their Civil Rights, then their rights have been infringed.
      -Then it follows that those who advocate for the preservation of the right of the People to keep and bear arms are, in fact, Civil Rights advocates. It also follows that those who oppose the right of the People to keep and bear arms are against the People’s civil rights.
      We have a word for people who advocate for or try to use the force of law to infringe on the civil rights of others: we call them Bigots. 🤠”

      So yeah – I feel your pain when a bigot that that dweeb disables comments and won’t give us a chance to point out what a prejudiced POS he is.
      Y’all feel free to cut, copy and paste that part above wherever you like… The bigots absolutely hate it and love calling me names for it.

  2. My email to him using the address he provided…

    Mr. Norman,
    You disabled comments on your hit piece on the 2nd amendment, yet you claim people who are pro-2A are afraid of their shadow? I think you need to look at yourself and see your own hypocrisy on that one. Sounds like you are afraid of the 1st amendment as well as the 2nd. People notice things like that. You put yourself in the public eye then try and shield yourself from criticism? That does not take courage or conviction.

    Fort Worth, TX

  3. I don’t think gun rights can last the 3 more years of Trump. GOP is all in for gun control now that they have power. Once they Democrats regain control, we’ll see California gun laws nation wide. Then, the GOP will claim to be our saviors and “rescue” us, (ie, stem the tide of gun control). So yes, one day, the 2nd amendment as we know it will be gone.

    • relax!
      they simply hvn’t got the moral authority for wide-spread gun control….see my t’other comment!

    • Stop wetting yourself and get involved with the political process locally.

      Do you have the phone # for your US Senator (you have 2x) and Congressman (you have 1x) save on your phone?

      Your local state Senator/Rep know you my name? Your County Supervisors? You have their email addy/phone #?

      Member of the NRA and other org?

      why the hell not?

      • ” Member of the NRA and other org?
        why the hell not?”

        Because…lists. One day, it will be some sort of criminal violation of civil rights to belong to “hate groups”. Better to keep the enemy guessing as to who is their enemies are. Make them nervous that they will not be able to pre-identify those people who will resist tyranny.

  4. As we gear up for unimagined breakthroughs in science and human development…

    this “clown” either just stepped out of a TARDIS from the late 19ᵗʰ century or he’s, literally, “off-with-the-fairies” @ the bottom-of-the-garden;
    i/there have been no “major break-throughs” in ‘science’ for decades;
    instead: what we have are just improvements and innovations on previous discoveries;
    ii/”scientists”, in the sense of the independent experimenter and self-funded entrepeneur of the 18ᵗʰ and the 19ᵗʰ centuries, no longer exist;
    what we have now are a bunch of intellectual prostitutes and ‘tenured’/’grant-funded’ mercenaries who would rather “sell off” their own grand-mothers than ‘buck’ the rigid dogma of the scientific establishment;
    iii/”human development”?
    pull t’other one!
    its got bloody big brass bells on it!
    humans ain’t “improving”;
    they’re degrading….in every aspect imaginable;
    we’re not “evolving” …. we’re devolving….
    the average European/American of a century or so ago was, inherently, stronger, smarter, tougher and more self-reliant than the soy-boy, milque-toast, beta “males” that currently afflict most Western nations….
    which is, of course, good… because…if all we’ve gotta contend with are squat-when-they-PISS types like David HOGG, esquire, then, TPTB simply won’t have “the human resources” or the determination or the moral rectitude to inflict universal gun control on y’all!
    and: if that all comes under the heading of “unimagined breakthroughs in science and human development”, then, yeh! …. our guns are safe!

    • Riiiiiight.

      The recent creation of a synthetic genome for bacteria isn’t a big deal at all. All the advances in astrophysics, no biggie. Many of the advances in theoretical math and their confirmation by things like radio astronomy amount to nothing.

      There are perfectly valid reasons why this kind of thing isn’t done by garage based folks it it was 100+ years ago and that’s on top of the fact that science moves in fits and starts.

      • (chuckle) I was going to bring up the first sustained nuclear fusion reactor that powered up several years ago – sure it consumed more power than it put out but it was a major proof of concept and yes, their still working on it.
        Take it easy, Nine. I’m pretty sure his main point was: scientific advancements or not – humans are still instinctively terrible to each other and therefore the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is and will always be needed.

        • Fusion power generation is still fifty years away just like it has be for 60 years.
          Not arguing that science isn’t advancing very quickly now, just that it would be foolish to invest in a commercial fusion generator company just yet.

        • I just don’t do well with this kind of tomfuckery.

          This being TTAG just consider guns. The first multi-shot guns came out in the late 1400’s as early versions of the pepperbox. At that point gun tech essentially goes nowhere in terms of ammo capacity until the late 1700’s. Like 300 years of really no advancement. The thought is that if you want more shots add more barrels.

          Then we start getting advancements. Fast. By the mid 1800’s We have revolvers, trap door rifles and lever guns. People say the pinnacle has been reached. BUT by the 1880’s we have the Maxim Gun (1883). 30 years later we have the Luger and 1911 sidearms.

          By the mid 1960s we have the AR on the civvie market. By the 1980s we have the plastic fantastic revolution.

          Since then? Not much. Maybe guns will basically stay the same for the next 300 years or maybe the next great thing is a year or a decade away.

          Science is the same way in terms of what is truly visible to the public. Fits and starts. It’s also hellishly expensive and the cutting edge is so far past the understanding of your average person that the days of the “tinkerer” are long gone. That’s not a bad thing it’s just the way of the world.

      • The recent creation of a synthetic genome for bacteria isn’t a big deal at all. All the advances in astrophysics, no biggie. Many of the advances in theoretical math and their confirmation by things like radio astronomy amount to nothing

        i stand by my original comment;
        there have been no major break-throughs in science for yonks;
        just: ‘building on’/developing what has already been discovered;
        i also refer you to my original claim vis á vis real scientists no longer existing;
        we now have nothing but shills and liars;
        take some fairly recent examples:
        (a) “scientists” saying that GMO foods are OK when other, independent research says it is not OK;
        (b) “scientists” saying that ‘global warming’/climate change is for real and other, more independent scientists saying that it is not real and putting their names and reputations on the line by signing a statement to that affect;
        (c) (since some-one else mentioned “fusion reactors” )
        the amusing little ‘kerfuffle’ some years back abt “cold fusion”;
        ( IIRC: the late 1990s)
        instead of a careful and objective scientific analysis of the claims by the afore-said researchers, we were ‘treated’ to displays of hysteria and panic by some so-called “scientists” in the main-stream media and a complete dismissal of the researchers’ claims even though most of their experiments were successfully reproduced by scientists in other, (non-Western) countries
        (IIRC: Japan)

        as for “theoritical math” … most ‘math’ these days….except the very basic stuff…if little more than occultic “spells” with no relation to reality;
        nothing more than impenetrable gobble-de-gook;
        for more on this: see the writings of Miles Mathis;

        most of the abv would be neither here nor there except for one major problem:
        many of these so-called “scientists” have a very bad habit of straying out-side their area(s) of expertise and making claims abt things that are none of their business;
        viz: socio-political issues … one of which is gun control…
        A C Grayling is a particularly noxious example of this…

    • But for advances in medical science and antiviral research over the past 20 years, I would have died ten years ago.
      Compare an operating suite in a MASH facility today to a surgical field hospital in 1864–there is no comparison.
      During the Civil War, more soldiers died of disease than of battle wounds. That doesn’t happen any more.
      Tens of thousands of children died or were rendered permanently paralyzed prior to the introduction of the Salk vaccine in 1955. In Afghanistan, polio vaccine workers are routinely attacked and many killed by the Taliban; the obvious result has been a tripling of the number of polio cases and deaths.
      Technological advancement has been massive. Long range rockets did not exist until developed by Nazi Germany during WWII. Within 50 years, we made it to the moon and back. Using less electronic computing power than the average hand held calculator. Your iPhone or similar was unimaginable in 1985, the year the first “portable” PC was marketed. The computer had an 8-bit memory and a single 128K floppy drive. Today you can put a multi-terabyte hard drive in your pocket.
      In the mid-19th Century, Marx thought the time was ripe for socialism (later communism) because he believed that European culture had reached its technological apex. Oops.
      The list goes on and on.

      • you don’t know what yr talking abt, re: polio “vaccine”;
        the original polio “epidemic” was, actually, caused by a previous vaccine….
        IIRC: diptheria vaccine;
        “vaccines” are highly contentious;
        that’s why there are huge anti-vaxx movements in many, Western nations…
        never mind the ‘Stan !
        re: computers…..
        the ‘hard yards’ had already been done in WII and, shortly there-after, with the discovery of the transistor/solidstate cctry/integrated ccts and micro-processors….
        after that: it was just further developments and improvements….

  5. I’m not afraid of my shadow. I’m concerned about the guy I caught trying car doors who walked toward me instead of running. I’m worried about the guy in my subdivision knocking on doors in the darkest hours. I’m thinking about how I can stop the guy that just kicked in my door. After my kids are crying, my wife is assaulted, our security is violated, I’m pretty sure my thought will not be “At least no guns were used!” If there is a fire, I have SMOKE ALARMS AND A FIRE EXTINGUISHER. If there is a crash, I have SEATBELTS, AIRBAGS, AND INSURANCE. If there is a threat, I have LIGHTS, LOCKS, ALARMS, A PHONE… and the ability to stop the threat if necessary. I’m not afraid of shadows, but those who move in the shadows. This is reality. People do bad things. Grow up, Tony.

  6. One day there will be millions dead in the streets when the fascists suspend the Constitution and try to seize everyone’s guns.

  7. ““One day, the Second Amendment as we know it will be gone.”

    Not in *my* America.

    Maybe in *your* ‘Amerika’, somewhere else, or if nearby, beyond a fence, wall, or (preferably) a minefield.

    And if you wanna visit, bring lots of cash and don’t complain about open carry *everywhere*…

    *Snicker* 😉

  8. Consider the source. More from the author:

    As the most heavily armed population on the planet, even Americans who don’t own assault guns are fiercely protective of the option to walk into a gun show or retail store and buy as much military-grade weaponry as whole units possessed during the Civil War.

    What is an “assault gun”? I’ve been to my fair share of gun shows and retail stores. I have yet to see the a single example of “military-grade weaponry.” And during the Revolution, private (soon-to-be-) citizens owned all of the military’s small arms, and some of their cannon, and even warships.

    How in the world can you be an American without the right to kill as many of your fellow Americans as you legitimately feel threatened by?

    The author conflates the right to keep and bear arms with a heretofore un-imagined – and explicitly contradictory to the unalienable rights, including life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, described in the Declaration of Independence by the same founders who wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights – right to murder. He uses that conflation to support the Straw Man he erected regarding law-abiding citizens “stockpiling” an “arsenal” of weapons. (Nevermind that the law-abiding don’t actually commit any crimes using those weapons…)

    Like any officer confronted with a riddled corpse after emptying a cartridge of bullets…

    Er… what is a “cartridge of bullets”?

    Oh, and by the way, I find it highly ironic that the author expends so much digital ink decrying police abuse of power in the use of deadly force, in an opinion piece arguing that the state – i.e. the police – should be the only ones to have firearms, in his post-second-amendment-repeal Utopia. Though perhaps he is naive enough to believe that there is some possible future in which the second amendment is repealed, police are disarmed along with the rest of their fellow private citizenry.

    …into a once-breathing human being, average American gun owners have permission to kill other average Americans — armed or not — if they feel their lives are “legitimately” threatened.

    Phrasing. Use of deadly force in self-defense is legally justifiable not if the victim “feels” that their lives are “legitimately” threatened, but rather if the victim’s mortal fear is legitimate, based on the circumstances. And, given the constitutional protection of due process, the accuser – i.e. the state – bears the burden of disproving that said fear was legitimate.

    Because this is America, there is no obligation to retreat.

    As it should be. The law-abiding have no moral or legal obligation to yield ground, property, or initiative to the lawless.

    Given his long-term perspective, the idea of a “relic” like the Second Amendment hamstringing social and political progress in perpetuity is almost as absurd as adhering to the three-fifths compromise that once marginalized black people.

    Oh, look: another idiot who lever learned history, and fails to understand that the 3/5 clause was designed to limit the legislative power of the slave states (who wanted to count slaves as population for purposes of representation in congress, while otherwise treating them not as humans but as chattel), in an effort to prevent the further spread of slavery.

    One day, the Second Amendment as we know it will be gone.

    Possibly. But guns won’t be. That inevitability was born well over a millennium ago, when gunpowder was developed and the first firearms were invented. The only question will be: who will possess the guns?

    We still see today what happens when law-abiding citizens are disarmed, and only criminals have guns. Look at any third-world gun-control country.

    We saw last century what happens when law-abiding citizens are disarmed, and only the government has guns. The Holocaust was merely the tip of the 100MM-plus iceberg of citizens killed by their governments.

    No thanks, Tony. I’ll keep my guns, and the second amendment.

    • Assault guns are for the StuG life.
      (HT to Bernhard of the Military History Visualized for reminding me of the saying.)

    • ‘Assault guns’ do exist; They are a class of lightweight, self-propelled or fast-vehicle-pulled artillery intended to support infantry assaults.
      Naturally, the Germans developed them, as they generally did everything else interesting. The phrase comes from their word ‘sturmgeschutz.’
      One of the COOLEST ‘sturmgeschutz’ was the ‘SturmPanzer,’ a tracked vehicle based upon the Panzer IV mounting a short 150mm gun.
      I am relatively certain, however, that this ‘firearms expert’ does not envision a ‘SturmPanzer’ when he talks about ‘assault guns.’ They, of course, are not black, and are therefore harmless.

  9. Another Utopian vision that would inflict much more pain and suffering upon mankind than is the current reality.

    • IOW: a dystopia….
      but…yeh…its all been tried before in the twentieth century….
      it was called COMMUNISM/Marxist-Leninism;
      and….resulted in the deaths of un-armed civz by gov thugs to the ‘tune’ of abt 100million-or-more …
      that’s a good enough reason to never give up yr guns….

  10. Ok Tony, I’ll bite and rebut your little experiment. Let’s say tomorrow we take everyone’s guns away, it’ll never actually happen but let’s just say it does. How do you plan on changing human behavior to actually achieve the peace you proclaim will come with the death of the 2nd Amendment? How are you going to prevent the strong from feasting on the weak? How does one protect the meek from those that who would crush them and take their possessions? With laws? How then are these laws going to prevent such things from happening? It’s pretty well proven that laws do not prevent crimes from taking place. It’s proven that police are never on scene before or during a crime most of the time.

    What are these breakthroughs in science and human development you herald? Are we suddenly going to transcend the violence that has been part of our baser nature for millennia untold? Are we all going to become Buddha-esque beacons of enlightenment over night? No, no matter what scientists figure out about human nature we are still going to be the violent animals we always have been. Criminals will still prey on the weak and no amount of mental or verbal jujitsu is going to stop it. We could ascend to the level of Gods on Earth and there will still be those who seek even more power and control over their fellow man. Sir, your premise is utterly flawed and your thought experiment COMPLETELY fails to account for human nature, human error, and human greed. We could give every man, woman, and child 36 trillion dollars and still there are people who would want more. We could take care of ever human need and still people would want more. We are greedy violent beasts. So therefore, our 2nd Amendment will continue to be proven relevant each time some one uses a gun to defend their life, it will be proven correct each time the police pull up to a murder that should have been prevented by laws, and it will be kept in our Constitution until there is no enemy but peace. After that peace there will still be guns just in case that peace doesn’t work out.

    • What are these breakthroughs in science and human development you herald?
      More efficient death camps.
      Zyklon B is just so yesterday.

      • Guess Hiram Maxim was right… Invent a better way to kill millions and the world will beat a path to your door, seems government has become the most efficient way to wipe out millions. See also Communism, Socialism, and any other government schemes with ism in the title.

        • “seems government has become the most efficient way to wipe out millions.”

          Government always has been; right after pathogens. It’s the nature of the beast.

    • This senior citizen with a hip replacement thanks you!
      When I take a walk in my neighborhood I think my fully changed cell and a pistol.
      When going to visit my relatives 160 miles round trip have full tank of gasoline, cell phone, pistol and cash

      Also am member of AAA
      My brother asked what are you afraid of?
      Answer, not a damn thing 😉

  11. guns==civilisation……
    (from: the Munchkin Wrangler)

    Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that’s it.

    In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

    When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force.

    You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gangbanger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

    There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we’d be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger’s potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat–it has no validity when most of a mugger’s potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that’s the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

    Then there’s the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don’t constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that’s as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weightlifter. It simply wouldn’t work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn’t both lethal and easily employable.
    When I carry a gun, I don’t do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I’m looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don’t carry it because I’m afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn’t limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation…and that’s why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

  12. Human development?

    The only reason human development is what it is today is because we have been armed for the past 2 million years. Otherwise, we’d have gone extinct. Every organism on the planet has natural defenses. Even plants and bacteria. If they don’t, they go extinct. And most do. 99.9% of all species that have existed are gone. Extinction is rule; survival is the exception.

    Humans have no natural defenses, as compared to other animals. We have no claws, no teeth that are useful for defense, no armor or shells, no quills or poison. We walk on two feet, so we can’t flee from predators, nor can we run fast enough to pursue prey. We are just pathetic pink bags of meat.

    But we have two things: enormous brains and amazing manual dexterity. Attributes that allow us to create and use tools. And no tool is as essential for survival as a weapon. It’s likely that the very first use of a technology in human history was that of a weapon, be it a rock or club used as a bludgeon or a stick as a lance.

    To be human is to be armed.

  13. “One day, the Second Amendment as we know it will be gone. As we gear up for unimagined breakthroughs in science and human development, our bloodiest amendment will be jettisoned entirely by a generation that is no longer afraid of its own shadow.
    So how are things going in the Sean Penn Brave New World utopia of Venezuela?

  14. All these arguments miss one thing… HUMAN FREE WILL. See back in the bible (whether it’s true or not is another debate entirely so please have that debate somewhere other than a gun blog) there’s a story of 2 brothers Cain and Abel. TLDR version Cain gets jealous of Abel and beats him to death with a rock then realizes he did wrong and tries to cover it up. Anyway that’s not the super important part the important part is God did nothing to stop this he gave us all free will as in we can choose what we do independent of an all seeing all knowing higher power. If God almighty himself cannot control our actions then what hope does a man made government stand of doing so? God couldn’t stop Cain’s jealousy from growing, He couldn’t stop Cain from grabbing that rock and murdering Abel. What makes these people think government can do any better while maintaining our free will?

    Note: Yes I know not everyone believes in God but the stories are useful for teaching people about human nature and many other things.

  15. As long as mankind rapes, steals,murders, home-invades, commits genocide, etc., the “little” people will have an abject need to defend their lives and their family’s lives.

    The bad guys are never going to play by the rules. Why should we expect the good people to have a fighting chance with both hands tied behind their backs when the ugliest parts of human nature turns its icy stare their way?

    To many liberals, they think it’s fine to just call the cops. To many liberals, they’ve never had a gun pointed at them. As is said, “A liberal is just someone who hasn’t been mugged or home-invaded yet.”

  16. Dear Mr Norman. May all your dreams come true , that is in whatever fantasy land you live in. It certainly is not the world in which I live. Nor shall it ever be. Remember what the doormouse said ? Well keep that shit to yourself. Stay on your own plain of existence. We common people live in the real world.

  17. This country will disappear before the second is gone first.
    300 million plus guns will never disappear. As long as there is crime and criminals.
    Honest people may not have guns at some point in the very very distant future. But as long as crime exists, So will some form of defensive weapon. Who gets to have this whatever form of defensive weapon is a whole other science fiction work for some future generation to write. Or be invented.
    Like a Star Trek phaser,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,hey look at cell phones. Science fiction just 50+ years ago.

  18. This America-centric view of Utopia can work, if several things happen.
    America would need to be the only country in the world. All others must become part of America, or simply disappear. This is because as long as there are other countries, those other countries will still have guns, and smuggling is a real thing.
    In this America, ALL methods of making guns must be done away with. This means, of course, all materials that can be used to make guns must be taken off the shelves of our stores. I have no idea how we will get water to our bathrooms and kitchens (buckets?), but this must be done.
    I will leave it up to the imagination of the reader to come up with all the other things that need to happen to get rid of all the guns.

    Then, we will see the violent crime rate plummet to zero.
    Oh, wait, we won’t. Simply getting rid of a tool won’t stop the evil in this America, it will only promote the use of other tools.
    Then Mr. Norman can dream of an America without those other tools. Something he looks forward to, no doubt.

  19. One thing I never understood about the anti gun position. It’s when they act like the need to own a gun comes from paranoia, and fear. But… If the United States is so safe, why is there a need for gun control? These are two opposing ideas and they don’t work together. You can not believe that the only reason to own a gun is paranoia but think the country is so dangerous that guns need the be banned.

  20. “…as sure as I know anything I know this: They will try again. Maybe on another world, maybe on this very ground, swept clean. A year from now, ten, they’ll swing back to the belief that they can make people… better. And I do not hold to that. So no more running.”

  21. Mr Norman publically denounced his citizenship by spouting beliefs that would 100% undermine the security of this country, its constitution and its free people.

    Because of Mr Norman’s denouncement of citizenship, the charge is to strip citizenship and to deport Mr Norman to any country that would have him. Or give him the option of hard labor. How many I’s and how many nays say you the American public? My vote is “I” this anti American anti constitution traitor should be stripped of citizenship and either be deported immediately as a domestic enemy, or put to hard labor for no more than 10 years as an enemy of the American people, never to be granted the right to vote!!

    This is how we are supposed to deal with domestic traitors!! This is my utopia in dealing with un American trash!!

  22. NO! NEVER! They can stop every bad thing and dangerous situation from ever happening (IT will never happen) I still wouldn’t give up my firearms.
    Only two ways anyone is getting my firearms, From my Dead hands, OR When Jesus Christ comes back to rule. End of story so put your Dystopian socialist hell in your pipe and smoke it. I HATE THAT SONG BY THE WAY!

  23. I read that as “Buy more guns and ammo”.

    How much? Well, it may require areapportionment of your priorities.

    Also, life is easier when all yoir enemies come out of the closet, so a small amount of appreciation is in order.

  24. The authors level of sophistication is about where Barak Obamas was when he took office. The flighty fools of the left believe that if you are “nice” to someone else that they will be nice to you. This of course, doesn’t work any better at the personal level than at the international level. Only the ridiculously naive carry that belief system into adulthood. They believe that the reason school shooters exist is because their peers were mean to them and excluded or shunned them.

    While some people do respond to overtures and kindness, there are plenty who will see it as a sign of weakness. Many on the left simply fail to understand that some people are just evil, and will use whatever tool is at hand to take what they can from others. In the days before guns, bad guys used a club or a stick to beat a victim into submission or stabbed them to death with a knife. To believe that somehow, if we could just eliminate all the guns, or at least the “bad” ones, mass shootings and crime would just go away is simplistic beyond reason.

  25. I’m not afraid of my own shadow anymore because hornday has a 9mm load for just that foe. Thanks for the thoughts though “justice”. I’m thinking if karma exists you’ll rid us of your filth using a knife. Just saying…

  26. IF the 2nd is repealed Violent and property crimes will skyrocket But the police stats will show lower crime because the police just wont show up, write reports or procecute criminals, They already “cook the books” In certain minority city’s to make the crime numbers APPEAR to decrease, Gotta control that Cradle to grave prison pipe line, and overt systemic racism. LEFTIST LIE ABOUT EVERYTHING.

  27. I will never give up my guns no matter what unconstitutional law or regulation or unlawful court rulng the leftist conjure up. If I must die, I would rather die a free man.

    But I will say that regardless of the lefts loud protests, their endless propaganda, and everything in between, I really think they have jumped the shark. Every action they take seems to piss off another segment of society which chips away at their support. At the moment, they are trying to piss off one of the largest segments of our society, and it is going to hurt. Think of the left as a cornered animal fighting for their lives. That’s them even if they don’t know it.

  28. A generation that’s no longer afraid of it’s shadow?! We’ve had 8 years of a presidency that started the pussification of America. The snowflake generation-a generation of babies that need mama a/k/a the government to tell them what to do and how to behave. Unreal. We need to reinstate the draft and add mandatory service for those that can’t serve in the military..

    • Like the Israel standard, Maybe replace public schools with JR ROTC/Boarding schools
      then 2 years of service in whatever branch you want , ARMY, MARINES, NAVY, AIR FORCE, National Guard, Coast Guard, or The Reserves or Border patrol.

    • That’s laughable. Drafts have nothing to do with creating a culture of defending civil liberty. Not much 2A, nor 1A for that matter, in Singapore or Thailand.

      • Wouldn’t you just love seeing that hog kid in a Marine uniform though! That chick already has the haircut. My point was to get rid of the snowflake mentality and make these needy tykes work for a living.

    • The US Army does NOT need/want a draft where millions of useless pansy snowflake are foisted upon it. Enough problem with the little girls wanna be soldierettes and the queers/trannies that Barry/demtards thru over the wall.
      Getting the fat butterballs that society produces but otherwise qualify into shape to be useful is enough of a challenge.

      You want rockpainters and beautification crews keep them in your neighborhood. That is all the draftees of the 50s/60s were actually good for. Wasted billions of manhours with the draft.

  29. One beneficial (to POTG) outcome of the adult sponsored and led (10% of the attendees were teens or younger) anti-gun march is that the anti-gun crowd is dropping all pretense and telling everyone what they really want. At last, we can forget arguing about what “common sense” really means. We can stop trying to counter the anti-gunners with facts and logic because they are announcing they joyfully and completely disregard both.

  30. Mankind has been violent for thousands and thousands of years… taking away our ability to self defense will benefit no one but the criminal predators…. the liberal belief that we will all live in peace only happens in songs and poems… these liberals need to work a couple of years in a prison to realize that all is not rainbows and unicorns…

  31. Time to step up my archery practice. I already have knives, axes and machetes.

    The world will be full of peace and love without guns. Ask the folks that enjoyed the Roman Peace at the hands of the Legions.

    • “Ask the folks that enjoyed the Roman Peace at the hands of the Legions.”

      Yeah? Well. If the Romans had not had the deadly weapons of the day, real peace would have been possible. If the Romans had guns available in those days, the slaughter of innocents the Romans conquered would have been even greater. So, yes, it is the tool. The short sword was the AR-15 of its time. If short swords had been banned, mass slaughter of peaceful, innocent citizens of the conquered nations could not have happened. Ban weapons ! All of them ! Only then will peace reign in the hearts of man.

  32. Neil Grosuck the Star Conservative Supreme Court Justice and appointed because of Trump stabbed gun owners in the back over the refusal to hear the Maryland Assault Rifle Case. It could not have come at worse time as now every State in the Union knows they can and are now in the process of banning anything and everything including California’s confiscation of private property i.e. rifles and magazines and illegal banning of and draconian restrictions on purchasing ammo. No internet sales, no crossing state lines to buy ammo (probably violating interstate commerce laws but when did the courts ever care about upholding those laws when it came to banning guns or ammo) and of course expensive background checks just to buy a box of ammo. 5 year loans will be available for the purchase of 1 box of ammo.

    And the latest outrage is a Republican Governor of Vermont screaming he can hardly wait to pass the latest and very huge gun and magazine ban bill rubber stamped by his sycophants which include many Republicans. Its all about power and the fall elections and the Republicans caved in like squealing back stabbing rats deserting a sinking ship (the right to own guns ship)

    John Kasich of Ohio a Republican finally revealed what a back stabbing rat he is as he screamed “I want to ban every one of those God-Damned AR 15 Rifles” (after all the polls tell him its time to switch sides on the Second Amendment). Even the Democrat’s went into shock and could not believe their ears and the gave him a ton of draconian bans including ammo bans and restrictions as well as gun and magazine bans. Its gun ban heaven now in the U.S. And as most are saying “Its not everything but a good first step”. It reminds one of Uncle Joe Stalin’s pictures with his draconian smile only this time its Uncle John Kasich with his Stalinist hat on saying “Komrades the People’s
    Republic of Ohio will take your guns and make the streets safe again” Unfortunately most Ohioans believe him.

    Other States even Red States are as of this week introducing assault handgun bans as well as well as assault rifle bans and magazine bans and confiscations. Right now Diane Frankenstein is creaming her jeans and busy writing up so many gun and ammo bans she has forgotten which one she started on writing first.

    Ammo bans and restrictions are also getting top consideration as the best way to ban guns is take away the right to own ammo and of course make what little you can own so expensive you would have to mortgage your house for a box of ammo. Seattle’s bullet tax was just the start and example for other cities and states to follow. One New York Political hack said “if we only let them own 1 bullet per lifetime that’s enough for self protection” and he was serious.

    Just as I predicted some years ago failure to vet all gun purchases, refusing to have safe storage laws that let criminals just walk into gun stores and homes and steal all the guns and ammo they wanted and of course letting guns lay around the house for kids to accidentally kill themselves with or to take to school and murder each other has led to some states now claiming that any gun in the future sold in their state must be completely child proof for a 5 year old to pick up and then not be able to fire. If no such guns exist then no guns for sale in the state which is the real intention of the law from the very beginning. And last but not least not having enough background information available for the instant check system which cannot work to its best capacity if it does not have all the information that should be in it including mental health information. And since the current system does not vet all guns 75 per cent of guns that change hands do so without any vetting. Its psycho nut case and drug dealer heaven as they can buy all the heavy weapons and ammo they want. Foreign people scratch their heads and say “Who in the hell is running America a bunch of Morons and Criminals”?Answer: Yes we have Morons and Corrupt Political Criminal hacks running everything. If you slip them enough cash and a free hang mans rope they are so greedy they will take everything knowing that you are going to use the rope to hang them with.

    So thank the Republicans who were so cheap and stingy they would not fund money for armed guards at schools or for security alarm systems or agree to any of the above gun reform laws that were over due 20 years ago after the Columbine school massacre. Republicans say they are pro-gun which they have proven they are not because banning guns is way cheaper than funding money to stop crime and massacre’s.

    And remember this past year proved you do not have to repeal the Second Amendment as the Courts will just ignore it to keep themselves in power and in favor with Public Opinion. So what else is new its just more of the same behavior they have exhibited since the founding of the country. Take the Constitution and wipe your ass with it as its always been a joke and your rights have always been dependent on public opinion.

    Yes a Conservative has always been his own worst enemy. The knuckle heads refused to do anything about weekly school massacres and rivers of blood flowing in the streets of our drug infested cities with daily drug gang shoot outs and innocent people dropping like flies when caught in the crossfire more deadly than most Middle East War Zones not to mention nut case snipers on all of our freeways turning them into shooting galleries and now gun owners are in the process as we speak of losing everything. Well what did you expect its just strange it did not happen much, much sooner over 20 years ago.

    • So you trust Trump enough to give him and his .gov the right to vet who owns a gun.

      You nazis stick together.

      • Gun Free School Zones. Surely you cannot be that big a Moron. The Brady Bill has been in effect for decades and has never ever taken any guns from anyone. . It purpose was not to take but to prevent nut cases and criminals from purchasing guns . It only was not more successful because it did not vet “all” gun purchases only new guns and it often did not receive all the data which was the fault of the States not doing their jobs not the Fault of the Bill. Still despite it not being perfect the Stats proved it still stopped thousands of nut case and criminals from purchasing new guns. Only Right Wing Nut Cases claimed that since it was not perfect it should be scrapped.

        • You’re the moron calling for Trumps .gov to have the right to vet all gun sales, even private party sales.

          You wish to give the very .gov that you claim to hate the right to decide who gets a gun.

          Spell it out in plain english, assuming that you can do it without lying. What is your idea of gun vetting? What hoops would a citizen have to jump thru to exercise their human and civil rights

          Take your time answering. I know you have to clear any statement with soros first.

        • Brady stopped 20-30 people a year from purchasing a gun, for a short period, when it put them in prison. All others were free to go find one somewhere else. Claims of “thousands” are ridiculous. Costs have never been announced, probably around a hundred million bucks for each actual prosecution.

    • Wow kid. Either you’ve been doing too much cannabis oil or you’ve gone to see Death Wish one too many times. For the first time since I started following TTAG I totally, that is 100% agree with you. I’ve been trying to tell people that this IS AN ELECTION YEAR and The rino’s are predictably caving. Sad. Oh well time to buy another gun and bury it.

    • Stereo Dude you have been hitting the drugs again. Your a prime example why we need vetting of all gun purchases. When your that wack’d out you need to see a mental health clinic fast. The future of our gun ownership depends on it.

      • See. A real gun owner would have got that joke. You’ve never touched a gun, have you?

        And you’re showing how you think vetting all gun purchases should work.

        Nobody gets approved.

        • Report back to your progtard overlords. Soros sent new instructions to them this morning (and the Apr retainer checks are ready).

        • to Gun free school zones. You can lead an ignorant hillbilly to knowledge but you cannot make him think

        • cisco. soros never got back to you so all you have is silly insults.

          You can’t speak without his hand up your ass?

        • To Gun Free School Zones. ; Soros and Blumberg have 100 times more money to pump into the elections this fall than the NRA which you are to hillbilly cheap to support and the Republican Rats are deserting the ship across the country. Vermont Republican Governor went commie, Ohio’s Republican governor Kasich went commie, and Michigan Republicans are taking down their support for the Second Amendment on all of their web sites.

        • cisco. My point exactly. They had enough money to buy you.

      • I love having you hand the weenie of ignorance out for all to see.

        Absurdity. Sarcasm. If you can’t identify them, stay the hell out of this blog.

        On the other had, please stay. Always good comedy.

  33. Science may, someday, allow the invention of a weapon that will be as effective as guns yet non-lethal.

    Yet as we have seen the antis do with tasers, they would immediately seek to ban it. For the children, or something.

  34. The author should stop lying.

    He doesn’t want ALL guns to go away.

    He just wants YOUR guns to go away.

    The guns of Michael Bloomberg’s bodyguards and the guns of the sociopaths who shot Emma Hernandez, Akai Gurley, Oscar Grant, Levar Jones and Charles Kinsey? They’re A-OK.

  35. One of the problems with so many anti-gunners, such as the article writer, is this belief that gun rights proponents are fearful of society and their fellow man, and that if only they would stop being so scared and afraid, they’d stop being so pro-gun. But as any gun rights proponent knows, fear has nothing to do with it (well sometimes it can, but only rational fears then, such as concern over a riot occurring possibly or something). Saying people own guns out of fear is like saying you must live in terror of fire if you have fire extinguishers in your home.

    As any of us know, if you have a gun rights person who is known as like the “Neighborhood Gun Guy,” and people start inquiring to them about getting a gun, they’ll have the whole neighborhood armed by the end of the week if they can. Someone who wants their fellow neighbors armed is not someone who is afraid of society.

    Ironically, it tends to be the gun control proponents who have the irrational fear, as many of them really think that if their neighbor is armed, then any slight debate or disagreement with said neighbor over something carries serious risk of being shot.

  36. Free will! I have the free will to defend myself and my family any way I see fit. Does anyone think that if guns are banned that I will not be able to acquire what ever I desire on the black market?
    Follow the Lord or follow Satan. Those who would disarm law abiding citizens are evil and wish us to be at the mercy of other evil beings. I will follow the Lord and not harm those that I disagree with- even though Satan screams at me to harm all that are different from me or disagree with me! I will be quite willing to use force against those who would physically assault me and my family.


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