This hunting season has been pretty exciting at the Kee Ranch. Nick took his first silenced kill. Dan got his first buck ever. And most recently, my cubemate also got his first buck (more to come on that). Adding to the excitement is the plethora of different calibers used during the 2012 season. Nick used his .300 BLK with a 125 gr. Nosler bullet, Dan used my .243 WIN with a 95 gr. Winchester Ballistic SilverTip. My cubemate used his 6.8 SPC equipped AR 15 shooting Sellier & Bellot 110 gr. Polymer Spitzers. And that’s where we ran into some issues . . .
Simply put, that bullet out of that gun sucked. As an animal lover who hates to see suffering, I’m pissed about it. I don’t enjoy the actual act of killing. I enjoy all the other aspects of hunting, but killing is my least favorite part. And not to go all Motor City Madman, but I believe deeply in the spiritual aspect of taking game from nature. My family has always prayed over the animal before beginning the field dressing process and given thanks when we eat or share the meat we have.
So when I walk over to an animal and it isn’t stone cold dead, that upsets me greatly. And in this case I put the blame squarely on bullet selection. My coworker made an excellent high neck shot about 3 inches below the Foramen Magnum which should have taken out the arteries and veins leading to and from the brain, as well as destroying the central nervous pathways. This is why I’ve advocated for the neck shot in the past. The high neck is a dense area for nervous system and blood pathways. And with a properly expanding bullet, that deer should have gone down and been dead by the time I got there.
So here’s your PSA: in a one-shot study, 6.8 SPC out of an 18″ barrel using a Sellier & Bellot 110 gr. Polymer Spitzer failed to expand adequately and subsequently caused the undue suffering of a whitetail buck. Consider yourself warned.
So, “passed by the legislature”. How many are signed into law?
I’ll reserve enthusiasm until said point.
What a crock of s h i t.
There was more wine and soapboxes in the above thread than you’d find in the a local Sam’s club. We had appearances from various social issue groups like the “Animals are better than people” PETA crowd, the anti-gun “Your only hunting with AR’s to disprove the propaganda” crowd, “Hunters protesting their choice shot placement is better” crowd, the “I’ve killed everything everywhere and you suck” crowd, and the gun community armchair quarterback crowd.
Any gun and any bullet can be effective with the right harmony of shot angle, range, placement, projectile selection, and an understanding of the intended game and the games physical density.
I place any failure to cleanly take the animal not on the caliber and/or projectile but rather the hunter (in this case the Authors cubemate) and the shooters lack of research and due diligence. Any smuck that reads a marketing slick, makes a purchase, and goes into the field with it, before doing any additional research, is a clown. (And you hunt with him and gauged his competence which calls you judgement into question). The story screams under informed novice hunter who is still a novices on his chosen caliber (in this case 6.8 SPC II on the AR platform). It doesn’t sound the the shooter knew enough and nor did enough research (about how their chosen gun, projectile, and prey) to properly assess their hunts expectations. And for the author to blame his mates less that flawless hunt on a projectile (+ out of this gun) is a weak cop out. (Sun in your eye; hole in your glove?) Guess what, I just bought some Air Jordan’s and being a 5’10” white guy I still can’t dunk. It must be the shoes. They must be junk as they failed to deliver the dunk from the free throw line experience I saw in the marketing material (queue your dramatic music with the game show sound effect wa-wa-waaaaaah)
“My cubemate used his 6.8 SPC equipped AR 15 shooting Sellier & Bellot 110 gr. Polymer Spitzers….{AND} Simply put, that bullet out of that gun sucked. As an animal lover who hates to see suffering…”
Really? Align your expectation. Your killing a living thing, death is painful, OH! and PETA wants their card back. I am not advocating suffering however animals hurt when you kill them. As such, we try and do it as humanely as possible. A big part of that process is doing the research and leg work ahead of time so we have a pretty solid understanding of the expected outcome of our hunt and more specifically how our shot will play out.
Think how will
a chosen projectile (caliber, design, grain weight, and physical make-up)
out of our chosen gun (barrel length, optics, gas system)
effect our chosen game (deer, elk, hog, bear)
given the games physical make-up (soft and squishy, dense lean muscle, thick tough hide, bone density)
given a chosen shot placement (head, heart and lung, neck, spine)
and how the harmony of the shot’s variable all come together (shot angle, range, placement, projectile selection, in conjunction with the physical density of the intended game).
I have not researched the Sellier & Bellot 110 gr. Polymer Spitzer round out of a 6.8 SPC II AR-15 with an 18″ barrel and it unfortunately doesn’t sound like the shooter did either. I have however research my main hunting caliber (a 7mm Remington Magnum out of a Remington 700 – versatile and amazing combination) in regard to the above variable. I too could have crap results even with a round from one of the best munitions makers on the market out of one of the best guns on the market if my knowledge went as far as the marketing poster I saw on the guns hop door on my way in. For example, the Barnes TSX projectiles are considered amazing hunting rounds and they are FOR THE RIGHT HUNT. However Barnes TSX is a horrible deer round out of a 7mm Rem Mag as the projectile is too hard and they are moving too fast to expand when they hit too soft a target (like a white tail buck). The Barnes TSX projectile in a 7mm Rem Mag will fail to expand every time against a white tale buck but they are a great bullet for hunting Elk, Moose, Caribou, Bear (140gr-160gr).
In a 7mm Rem Mag the best Rounds I have found for hunting white tale deer between 100-350 yards are:
Swift Sirocco 150GR
154 Gr Hornady Interbond / Hornady 154gr Interbonds
Remington CoreLoct PSP in 150gr
Win power points 150gr
If I were hunting different game animal I would have a completely different list of projectiles. The failure in the original article was that of the hunting party to determine what projectiles they should have been using to take deer with a 6.8 SPC II. The responsibility falls completely on the shoulders of the shooter and is not representative of a failure of the AR-15 rifle platform, caliber, or the projectile. I personally have AR-15’s in .22LR, 223/556, 300BLK, .458 SOCOM. I would expect to have the best luck hunting deer with the 300BLK. However if I took my .458 SOCOM in the field loaded up with rounds topped with 600 grain projections; whatever mess I made out a whitetail deer would be indicative of my failure and not that of the SOCOM round. Likewise is I tried to use a 223/556 and failed to adequately down the deer do to insufficient power that was would be indicative of a failure on my part to not select the an appropriate round for the task.
In a world of hunting and gun noobs people don’t have enough experience with either. I live by the code of the neck shot 30-30 (1st deer 24 years ago) 308 300 ultra magnum and 300blk. 99% of my deer have fallen with shots to the neck. When you play golf you have a golf bag full of clubs to get the job done. You don’t use a putter to t off or a 9 iron to chip a shot in on the putting green. There’s no 1 do it all gun or ammo, before a hunting season weapons and ammo should be tested. However, with the best gun best ammo and precise shot to the neck perfect spot doesn’t mean the deer will die immediately. They have an excellent spirit of survival and when they should be dead you get to them and their still kicking. That’s hunting and shit suffers sometimes. Man up!
He could have shot him in the head instead of the neck its about the same size target and most deer don’t survive the head shot too long, I usually shoot for the heat and lungs especially from longer range.
Pretty baD post/article. I have, in 15 years of hunting, never heard anyone advocate “Neck shots.” They just aren’t reliable for killing fast for most shooters. This one-shot “Study” is no valid representation of anything. The closest it gets to being anything worthy of even the Internet is that your buddy may or may not be a lousy shot. I’m done with this site
I have read a bunch wasted oxygen on this matter. The 6.8 was designed for one purpose to kill the enemy. If this round is more than sufficient enough to take one of the hardest animals to kill i.e. A human. It will get the job done on a 200lb deer,all this crap about taking a plastic gun to hunt is ridiculous and why do it. First reason weight of weapon second it is a durable platform i.e scratching,water Etc. I have a Benellie in 30-06 with beautiful furniture on it and I totally stress out taking it into the field worrying about scratching a $1400 rifle. Lastly some of us who have spent our adult lives depending on one of those junky black plastic guns that feel like one of our limbs, do you get the point yet. I’m sure I will get some smart guy that will make some snide remark but I carried this weapon in different calipers for 21 years and four tours of combat. I read one of the above references about a charging dangerous animal,try another human being hunting you as you are hunting him. I can tell you my little plastic gun at the end of the day prevailed over 762 X 39 and 54.
Has anyone found a nicer stock or chassis for the SSG 3000? Although I can shoot 0.6″ groups with it so maybe I shouldn’t complain but it just looks cheap. When you could get the McMillan it was around $1000, and I’m not looking to spend that much but I’d definitely be interested in something in the $400-$500 range, the plastic stock on the US model is functional but I’d really like something more appealing to the eye.
I almost never take neck shots, unless it a certain angle. I normally shoot a few inches behind the shoulder in the spine. In most cases it’s an instant kill. One time, relatively close, it took app one minute for the deer to die. It was app 40 yards and it’s possible my Hornady light mag did not expand ( 165 gr .308). That was one time out of 10,12 shots I made in the same area.
Who cares… but we must admit the deer is nice right? 😉
The author dosnt give any information about the range the 6.8 was used to shoot a whitetail deer. Was he shooting the older 6.8 SPC or the new 6.8 SPC II?
Given the proper range and the projectile and muzzle velocity the 6.8 SPC II is suitable for ELk, and smaller game.