Yesterday, retired Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens, after gazing deeply into the emanations and penumbras of his gun-grabbing soul, published an op-ed in the New York Times advocating the repeal of the Second Amendment (he’s not the first to express that wish on those pages). As commenter Charlie wrote about the Justice’s display of candor,
Possibly the most intellectually honest thing I’ve heard from the anti-gun side in 25 years. But still it’s a bad move. Even trying to repeal 2A – and getting more than a handful of states to sign on – will cause a lot of people to start the resistance efforts. Which will provoke a violent government reaction, and a violent counter-reaction, which will spiral out of control and lead to some very bad times.
Agreed. At least with the intellectual honesty part.
Rarely do we see someone on the anti-gun left (NB: Stevens was a dissenting vote in both Heller and McDonald) so openly declare his preference that the right to armed self defense be abolished. We usually have to nod our heads and roll our eyes as we’re earnestly told not to worry, that no one wants to take away our guns or our right to keep and bear them.
So much for that horse hockey. Justice Stevens makes no bones about it.
But what about Charlie’s prediction that even the effort to repeal the Second would result in what the Chinese call “interesting times?” Remember, it takes two-thirds votes in both the House and Senate to amend the Constitution, followed by approval of three-quarters of the states.
If the process were started — say a 2A repeal actually makes it through Congress and goes to the states — and, as Charlie predicts, resistance efforts were mounted, what would that even look like? Would we see angry demonstrations in each state ahead of the the votes? Would those turn violent? Would legislators, at either the state or federal level, be threatened because of their votes, either pro or con?
Would even attempting to repeal the right to keep and bear arms, something many on the left would dearly love to see, turn violent?
Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens was a fraud and not true to the constitution.
I knew that on the Wash DC 5 – 4 decision that nullified the Wash DC gun ban and it has scared the crap out of me ever since .
Scared that 4 of nine can not understand the most simple of concepts as the 2ned amendment .. THERE MAIN job. Not of there opinion, but what the right said and meant from the get go.
Judicial Review is not their job at all.
Feel free to let us know a practical & feasibly plan of how you plan to take back the power that they assumed more than a century ago.
Well StereoDude there is a way but it gets real messy but it is the reason why the 2nd was put there in the first place. will lead to a large cleansing of one side or the other….. i say better dead than a slave and yes i have been saying this for almost 30 years now and saying that it needs to happen and soon. BTW my parents hated my views as they were anti violence….. almost 30 years later they are starting to see i was right from the start.
Would trying to repeal 2A result in violence? Succeeding would. Yes. Next question.
I truly believe things will get out of hand should any part of the Bill of Rights fall. The small arms available to the GP is no match for our military technology, so I believe an armed revolt would be nearly impossible. I believe it will start with rioting and end with homegrown terrorism.
Tell that to nearly every guerilla force we’ve fought against.
^^ That. Right there.
The line between rioting, terrorism, and guerrilla warfare is kind of blurry. In any war the objective should be to achieve a clausewitzian center of gravity which will eliminate the enemy’s ability or will to fight and grant your side victory. In any battle between patriots and professional military there is no center of gravity for the patriots to achieve because regardless of who wins the result is Republican voting casualties on both sides while Democrat voters sit back at home. If a pro-2A revolution wishes to win such a civil war then the center of gravity to fight for is guaranteeing the results of subsequent elections through the attrition of the Democratic voter base. Democratic voters are packed into a small geographic region even in the most blue voting states and through destruction of infrastructure (water processing, gas and electric heating, cutting off of food supplies) and direct attacks could be culled to the point where they no longer have a sufficient population to direct state or national elections. This is all theoretical of course based on what the objectives of such a hypothetical revolution might be at some point in the future.
That’s considered a violation of people’s rights. It’s not something that is accepted like it was when the Europeans and Africans committed genocide of Native Americans.
You don’t have to attack the general person who isn’t involved with overthrowing the U.S. Constitution. A good guy doesn’t go after people like that.
It’s called Peaceful Secession. It’s a thing. Lincoln and the Big Government warmongers made it a dirty word but it’s the way people who obviously have different values and world view deal with their differences in a civilized matter.
If the Feds or another entity comes knocking at your border in protest to your secession? Then it’s a declared war and there is “center of gravity”.
But no, this country is too stupid and brainwashed and divided in order to do anything logical and principled like that. And so the Republic will fall. Rome was not to be the Eternal City and neither will DC…
What you just advocated is known as ethnic cleansing another term is genocide. You just perfumed over the foul stench of your screed by substitution, saying “Democratic” and “Population Center”. Then threw in a Clausewitz reference (not even quote) to make it sound like you’ve read a book or two in your life. Only anonymously on a forum like this filled with other petty hate mongers would you voice such an opinion. To do it in any other context would risk being ostracized by sane and polite society. Your a sad little third rate arm chair Hitler. If you don’t think people see right through you then your more disconnected from humanity and reality than you already sound.
violation of “Godwin`s Law” detected!
‘argument’ thereby invalidated!
Tell that to the 50,000 insurgents who kept most of the US military locked down in Iraq for years.
I’ve been unlucky enough to spend some time in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and if American would look like that after, no thank you. In a hundred years, they’ll be up to 1970’s, maybe, Afghanistan 1850. I don’t want that kind of America.
Neither do I, that was hardly my point. It beats Germany circa 1938.
Man, the phone keyboard is terrible, auto-correct doesn’t fix fat thumbs.
An armed populace is what would be needed to capture ‘ in country ‘ military bases . This is standard procedure in any scenario where citizens take back their country . It would have to be swift and regional and include many ranking military . This is why it is so important to push the progressives out of the upper brass . A situation that was reversed during the Obama years .
The idea that a citizen takeover of US military is not possible is a myth employed by people who fear their loss of power .
Not a valid comparison. This was a main force attacking an well defense opposition with heavy air support. They expected defenders to abadon the position instead got bombed from above. VBIED at the gates, roadside ambushes, IED on roads into and out, snipers would all be guerilla actions to wear down the larger force.
The citizens already run the military. This isn’t some 2-bit teapot dictatorship we live under, where the military and police are beholden to the “all powerful and benevolent leader”. Citizens taking over military bases wouldn’t be that difficult, because our citizen military already have them. And as disciplined and professional as our military is, it exists by the consent of the people both in and out of the military. Spare parts for attack helicopters, fuel for main battle tanks, electricity that turns on the lights, food that goes in to MRE’s all come from the bounty of our country and the willing participation of our people….. without people jets dont fly and triggers dont get pulled. The brain dead holdouts in the military who would go along with a “repleal and confiscate” scheme wouldn’t stand a chance. We out gun and out number the military and police 1000 to 1 and know where their families live. That, and the vast majority of military and police who would openly revolt against such a scheme would cause huge problems at the outset.
exactly. always laugh when they say “what is your AR going to do against a nuclear missile”. stupidest leftist comment ever, which is always inevitable by someone on their side when this argument is always made. yeah nuke parts of the country and see if the resistance goes away, or that you as a leader of the govt don’t get thrown out for nuking your own land. resistance may not win any large battle, but they would control the “ground” the second the jackboots leave the area. and assuming blind acceptance by military is also huge hole in their argument. hell if afghans can battle russians to a standstill in basically open terrain with inaccurate (relatively) AK rifles and poor marksmanship skills (from what I can see in videos), how the hell would any military stand a chance against 1000x their number in a greater percentage of tree/vegetation-covered terrain and MUCH better civilian owned weapons. Plus, americans that own rifles can usually shoot much better. gubmint owned IR targeting systems would be a problem, but I suspect .50cal rifles and related AP ammo sales and night vision would soar big time should this look like any kind of inevitability and those choppers and night-time raids would take massive losses over time. again, you don’t have to win any battles as an insurgency…you just have to make it painful enough for a leader to be kicked out one way or another. this would happen right quick methinks.
They know where your families live too, likely it will be in prison where they’ve been put for harboring a now dead terrorist or on the street after you’ve forsaken your mortgage, pension and Medicare to go off in to the woods and play Red Dawn. Hope your able to carry your CPAP machine and prescriptions along with all that ammo and water, it can get heavy. But I’m sure you can hump eighty pounds and rig IED’s; you probably do it on your weekends all the time right?
Oh Glen, you’re adorable… Throwing out your buzzwords and your utter contempt for veterans… You got your face beat a lot in school, didn’t you?
Exactly, we the people outnumber everybody, it would be ugly no doubt, but once American Patriots got going it would be like the open mouth of a huge fire breathing dragon. Look at Russia and Afghanistan, the little band of rebels ran Russia out of town. it’s a shame the left can’t go to their safe place and live their life and leave the rest of us alone. They know not what they do, they need to realize that nothing good will come from their socialist agenda.
The question is would our own military( your brother, uncle, cousin, son & daughter) fight against us (civilian patriots) or would it be The Almighty NATO fighting us over the dems trying to take our god given rights? They did in the civil war but that was a totally different issue. I pray nothing like this ever has to happen, but it’s been looking like we’re on a course headed straight for it with nowhere to turn. Keep buying ammo fellas & teach a kid to shoot so our future can enjoy the sport.
It took years and the combined might of the U.S., Russia, and half a dozen other nations to defeat ISIS and their 50,000 fighters, (though they still have provinces in Libya, the Sinai Peninsula and Afghanistan.)
Don’t expect the U.S. government to go full Genghis Khan on Americans. We don’t even do that to our enemies overseas.
That’s because we see our enemies overseas as being human beings. Domestically, gun owners are not seen as human beings. So depending on precisely who’s giving the orders, expect much worse…
So, you think US citizens view other US citizens worse than we did the Taliban in Afghanistan, or the Sunni militants in Iraq?
B-Rad: “So, you think US citizens view other US citizens worse than we did the Taliban in Afghanistan, or the Sunni militants in Iraq?”
Haven’t you been keeping up with what the left says about gun owners?
We are to be killed for not turning in our guns voluntarily.
Our rights simply don’t exist.
Where have you been?
Yes, and I really haven’t heard or seen anything approaching the kind of language directed at the Taliban, AQ, or ISIS. If anyone is even thinking that, they are a stupid. Call me when they rape an murder children by the truckload, set off IED’s or car bombs in an actual school.
Thanks to OBAMA and a Liberal Congressional members SHAMMING of the public and ordering Gov’t agencies not to Say or Print anything referencing Muslin and Islamic people thereby creating a BAD image of terrorists!
So, to you, B-Rad, being called murderers, telling us we have blood on our hands, being told our rights should be taken away, we should be killed if we don’t turn in our guns…
This is, to you, not as bad as what’s being said in the news media (all of the above have been said on the media, far more than what’s being said about Islamic terrorists) about terrorists.
Not that the actions of the terrorists haven’t been reported on, but that kind of invective?
I have to wonder what you watch/read/listen to.
Using the US military against its own citizens is a non issue the left just doesn’t understand.
First of all the majority of the US military will not turn against us to enforce a repeal of the Second Amendment. I’ve spent my entire life either in the military or working around the military and it’s just not going to happen. There are always a few Waco Whackos, but the majority will not fire on us. They are not going to be able to employ close air support, main battle tanks, or nuclear weapons on the citizenry.
And if they truly believe that they are going to, and they start killing us to take our guns, how safe will they be? How safe will their families be? Are they going to move all the military and police families on to guarded bases? Who’s going to move their fuel, ammo, food, provisions and otherwise around for them? Those trucks, convoys, housing, and families, and quisling politicians and their families are all soft targets. It won’t take long to take them out of the fight and have them rethinking their poor treasonous choices.
Let’s just hope it doesn’t come to that. But the leftists should surely consider it a possibility.
But you’re saying that POTG, will in fact, kill other citizens of the US for daring to follow the actual rules of the country?
If the process to amend the constitution is followed, that is a very difficult task, then its war.
Civil succession is a much better option. Thousands of dead civilians would actually cause something like a UN security force, which could then expand into a global conflict, which then might lead to nuclear exchanges. This slippery slope just follows a to b to c to d to end of the world as we know it.
At the end of the day, what does success look like?
I find it funny that that you site Waco one of the few actual examples we have to draw from and then just immediately dismiss it because it doesn’t confirm your pre existing belief. Ruby Ridge? ATF agents are GS-14’s with advanced degrees and powerful federal unions behind them, if they had disobeyed orders they would have been just fine (economically), even if they had eventually been fired. But they didn’t. The typical enlisted military member is far less educated and far more dependent on the state for there well being and economic livelihood than ATF agent. What about Kent state? Katrina? L.A. Riots? Jim Crow? The myriad state and local LE agency’s that confiscate guns,… all,.. the,… time? History is replete with examples of Military and law Enforcement personnel doing what they do best and most,… following orders. If you think some 24 year old grunt E-5 with two kids who lives on base is going to choose you over a pay check and not going to prison, then your dumb. And yes hello? Many of there families already do in fact,… live on bases.
you’ve over-looked the blindingly obvious;
National Guard armories;
they’re all over the place and most NG-men are from the community and, i’m betting, would be, on average, more qualified than the average ‘grunt’ and would, more-over, be much more 2A-friendly….
would only take a few NG armories to either be captured or ‘handed over’ to the locals and there would be more than enough ordinance available to “an insurgency” to make the fed(dot)gov stop and think twice if not thrice….
AFAIK, they gutted a lot of the armories in the mid 1990s. At least, they emptied the ones all around us in Ohio. We figured that government was getting mighty scared; don’t know if it was the case though.
I have 4 NG armories within 50 miles of my house – been in 3 of them. I know the layout and the (extremely weak) security, and a good bit about what’s there and exactly how to get it and use it. I could clear out 2 of them of all their small arms and ammo long before anyone would even know, all by myself. With help, all four of everything not a shot fired. They’d be my first stop if the left really got froggy. Me and my family would have no problem living off the land, either. I don’t want anything like that to happen, but I’ll be damned if Imma let a bunch of coastal commie elite libs tell me a GOTdamn thing about how to live. The first attempted ban on anything past bump stocks may as well be considered the first shot fired, and instead of secession, I say we push the California coast and NYC out of the union – just sternly disinvite them, if you will – and I’ll bet the rest of New England will get it’s shit together right quick.
If the NG were federally mobilized, they would be moved out of their native state, and other units would move in to guard the armories and then follow orders against those who aren’t their friends.
Don’t underestimate the leaders who understand how to fight a civil war. To think plans aren’t sitting in some file cabinet somewhere is to grossly underestimate how things work.
We have plans to invade Canada and Mexico filed away, too.
Just like the left has plans to introduce bills to do stupid stuff like require background checks on ammo purchases and a re-enactment of the AWB. (Oh wait, these have already been introduced, with sponsors.
You’ve over looked the blindingly obvious,… NG armories don’t contain ammunition!!! Stupid!!! The other obvious fact, that you don’t know your ass from a hole in the ground and have no expertise or experience in the real world that qualifies you to organize an insurgency. Your just some dufus that has spent his life fantasizing about being some one hell never be and doing things hell never do on a day that will never come. Did you honestly think that was a valid point? You did didnt you? Because you don’t know shit about how the real adult world works.
NG armories absolutely DO stock ammo, moron. Every one I’ve ever been in, across several states, has crates of ammo and crates of just about everything you could think of – meds, MREs, uniforms, tents, tires, EVERYTHING.
… and you expect us to believe you’re a ranger? Really?
Oh… wait… you just blew one in a bar and that makes you a military expert and veteran? Right?
I never claimed to a Ranger; your reading comprehension sucks. NG armories have stocks of MRE’s and ammo on hand if the the unit is there occupying it cause there getting ready to conduct training, which is likely why you were allowed on them. It got delivered to them from a depot on a regular army base. See it’s called nuance. In fact more often then not the weapons at the NG armory have there bolts removed, those get delivered day of too. Most states wont allow the NG to store munitions in communities cause of dweebs like you guys, makes sense hugh? Like I said I don’t much, but you tards don’t know anything.
You obviously have no concept how how troublesome and dangerous a group of armed, dedicated, and focused people with a clear purpose can be. I can’t even think about how many billions of dollars we spend just trying to deal with a bunch of assholes with AKs and home made explosive devices. That’s in an operational theater with a resource-strapped adversary who can be easily “othered.” I don’t think the fight would be as one sided as you think. Not to mention plenty of Government agents who know they swore an oath to the full Constitution, and not some watered-down bitch version with no teeth.
I’ve seen what Iraqis could do with a fraction of the materials available at any hardware store in America… I think I can do better.
I love you Serge….. If I was a cisgender nonphalocentric womyn and you were a trans binary xe, then I would ask for your consent to participate in a dependent domestic partnership.
Right on Sal, pissed and focused well armed American Patriot’s, that’s a force to be reckoned with, anyone who thinks differently is only fooling himself.
There’s no need to engage our brothers and sisters in the military should this culture war turn into a shooting war. We know the names and addresses of the enemy leaders, financiers, and collaborators. It would take a lot less than 3% to do the job.
Also, why do you think the very patriotic overwhelmingly pro gun service members won’t be on the side of the GP defending the 2A? Seems more likely that it would be the military + gun owners verses coward anti gun cops like sheriff a Israel. I like our odds in that fight.
3% of the U.S. population is roughly 10 million. That’s quite a large force. Seeing as how we’re already “in country”, it would be realistic to think that a swift, decisive movement could indeed see us through to a rapid stranglehold on all state capitals, and enough airfields as to preserve the hold long to enough to try politicians for treason, watch them swing and make a simple statement of our resolution.
Sure glad the founders thought otherwise. What a bunch of whiners around here. Ooooo boohoo, all is lost, boohoohoohoo!
I never understand this argument. We won’t be going up against the full might of the US Armed Forces. This won’t be a North-South affair, this is neighbor against neighbor. What this means, is while people generally don’t care when we drop a smart bomb on an apartment building in Syria, they likely will mind a smart bomb taking out their neighbor’s house, and half of theirs. If it came to military action, they would immediately have to give up missiles, drones, bombs, any explosive rounds, jets, and likely tanks. They would be limited to armored vehicles, small arms and small arms from helicopters. They will have to wage the war on two fronts, against the gun owners and a PR campaign that the gun owners are the bad guys. If they break out tanks and bombs they will quickly increase the ranks of those fighting against them.
It’s hard to run a PR campaign when your sock puppets are legitimate targets for the insurgent groups.
This big time. We wouldn’t need to fight our troops. Taking out 50 or so senators and their families, 200 or so representatives and their families could happen in a matter of hours. Same for any police chief or sheriff and any staff that went against the will of the people. POTG make up the largest armed force in the world. What does the average 20’s something leftist have besides a dildo and a pussy hat? Trying to subvert 2A is the definition of a tyrannical act and the main purpose of the 2nd.
This country is a giant area. Taking down the grid could be done by less than 100 people in a day. You don’t need explosives, a log chain or cable will play hell with a substation and those things are all over the place. In this state there are water lines above ground all over the place. Gas lines well marked with valves above ground all over the place. Cause enough disruption in all the big cities and the authorities would have their hands full with late night shoppers in no time. How are they going to collect the guns when they are dealing with full on riots in every large city?
The leftist are not that stupid.
All this talk about repeal is nothing more than another ploy for incremental gun grabs. Give us the AR15’s and other scary rifles and we will drop it, for now.
Yeah, I’m not buying it. As soon as a predator drone pops a few hellfires into a double-wide or two the majority of the people calling for war are going to tuck and run. Comparing any uprising that would happen here to the middle east is off-base as well. Haji has truckloads of unexploded ordinance laying all over the place. That’s what they use to build IEDs. People here think they’ll pour kitchen chemicals into a bucket and take down a bridge. Anyone have any 105 HE they can spare?
The terrain and infrastructure are very different too. Rioting will leave roads blocked with burned out vehicles, buildings set aflame, and utility poles strewn about. Power will be off due to all the live wires in ground contact and that is going to make everyone else go bananas with no lights, heat, or A/C. The economy will have already shit the bed by then, so there would be a lot of hungry, broke ass people looking to take what they need from someone else which is going to lead to more fighting. The global economy will certainly suffer from our fate so you should probably expect a bunch of men with blue helmets from foreign lands, dropping by for a visit being a pain in the ass.
Nobody wants any of that to happen, so none of this B.S is ever going anywhere. It’s just a few malevolent children and their nanny-goat parents exploiting tragic violence to push a poorly crafted agenda.
“Yeah, I’m not buying it. As soon as a predator drone pops a few hellfires into a double-wide or two the majority of the people calling for war are going to tuck and run.”
Interesting that you would say this. Largely as a consequence of our decades of continual warfare, our country now has the largest population of military-experienced citizens that at any time since WWII. A significant portion of those military-experienced citizens have direct combat experience. And, not surprisingly, most of those folks can be counted on to be armed. If the social circumstances arise that foment the kind of armed revolt that we’re talking about, we only have to look at hour own revolutionary history for how armed American citizens might protect their rights. During the revolution most militias weren’t particularly good at being soldiers—but they got better. In contrast, combat experienced private would bring a very different skills-set to the fight. Our history tells us that combat-experienced red-necks don’t “tuck and run”. Just sayin’.
You know what the single largest employer of veterans is,… I’ll bet you can guess,… the federal government, ta da! The amount of people with combat experience in America is infinitesimal compared to the population at large. Most combat veterans get out and start breeding, eating and ageing and stop rucking or using any of there very perishable skills. Many of them are quite,… how do you say?,… Fucked up! Mentally and physically and require physical / psych therapy and numerous medications. The notion that the’re all roided out Tattooed spec ops guys that ever even received specialized guerilla training is laughable.
Glen sounds like the life of the party. So one post ATF agents, who are fed law enforcement and have advanced degrees are autonomous and follow orders and are largely vets since the FED Gov employs most vets. Yet vets are all broke dick and useless. Most Fed Law enforcement have mil background, or at least state/local LE background, and most of the people in those 3 categories are right leaning.
As far as vets being useless and people laying down, just look at Waco, Ruby Ridge, and the Battle of Athens. People will resist, often leading to their death, but ultimately effective resistance erodes government actors more than civilian movements, just look at every war we fought from Vietnam forward.
Never hated on veteran’s. Am one, work with ’em, drink with ’em. The one’s I know still love America despite it’s faults, and don’t fantasize about going to war with it’s government or killing our neighbors. Guess what? We even love guns to, we just don’t worship them as source of power and masculinity worth killing over. Some of you guys here are some pretty sick, sad puppies.
To Glen Frey,
Bundy Ranch is a perfect example of the probable outcome. No shooting, though the threat existed. They packed up then went home after they saw the outcome might not be in their favor. Shooting Bundy and his kin? Maybe. Shooting 1000 or more armed demonstrators/protectors? Probably won’t play well in the news and could possibly turn other citizens to their side. Then they tried to go the court route and lost there too.
Anyone that says that personal firearm ownership couldn’t change the outcome here in the USA should take a good hard look at the Bundy Ranch incident. That’s the most recent act of citizens standing up for what they believe, right or wrong. How many of those Gov guys would have opened fire if ordered? Who knows, but I’m guessing not all.
I pray every day that shooting doesn’t start over our rights. I know what it’s like to go without. Even though I could do it again, I’d rather not.
If you wanted to win, just stop shipping food to the Dem cities. They’d give up in about 2 weeks. Starvation is a cruel bitch. We’re the ones that grow their food, collect their trash, put out their fires, build and fix their stuff.
We protect them from REAL hard work. I’ve not met a lot of lefty farmers or mechanics. Tattoo artists, yes. Trash Men, no. Cut off welfare for a month if you want just a taste of what I’m talking about.
I’ve lived in the inner city, they’d go cannibal about a week and a half in. They’re mostly fat and lazy or they’re “trendy” and shop everyday so they only eat “fresh” “clean” food with little to none in the pantry/cupboards.
I’m not sure which would be food first though? The fat and lazy are slow, but hunger is a great motivator. The trendy may be in shape, but most are vegans and ahbor violence (and they want to take the 2nd away, LOL).
Either way I’ll watch from quite afar, with my loved ones. We have canned foods, dried meats, and can hunt, trap, forage, and have gardens. It took FEMA forever to get water to the Superdome. It couldn’t be that hard to feed a 100 Dem controlled cities, right?
You know what prepping, hunting, fishing, canning and gardening was called in the 1770s and 1860’s,… normal life. You don’t think any civilians undertaking those activities in the revolution, civil war, french and indian war, Napoleonic war, black plague died or were massacred? Did you graduate high school? You honestly think some how those magic beans and skills will keep you safe? Your entire belief system and world view exists only because it has never been tested for you in your life time. It has for many other people in the past and it failed woefully at protecting them as if it wasn’t even there, which it isn’t, its a warm cozy fantasy. You truely are an idiot, but worse one that seems to relish thoughts of genocide, your disgusting. Stay at your compound you don’t belong in sane society.
Waco was a conflict between a religious community that was stockpiling weapons for self defense (following a wacko leadership), not an armed quasi-military right-wing militia preparing to overthrow the government.
The Feds just didn’t like that stockpiling, so they fabricated evidence that illegal automatic weapons were being stockpiled, and mounted a military assault. They never introduced any automatic weapons into evidence. In fact, the defense in their trial rested without calling any witnesses, and introducing no evidence. And still won.
Waco isn’t in the same class as Ruby Ridge or Athens at all. It was, pure and simple, a pre-emptive strike at a supposed (but false) threat. A gross and deadly mistake.
“We even love guns to, we just don’t worship them as source of power and masculinity worth killing over.”
So Glen, what you’re really saying is that you don’t really value your Second Amendment rights enough to fight for them. You’re saying that you like guns but if the government were to repeal the 2nd Amendment it really would not be that big of a loss to you, and certainly would not be a big enough deal to you to fight over.
Knocking out the electrical substations and powerlines to the big cities would not be difficult and would create perfect riot/looting/mayhem/pillage conditions. The Big Blue Cesspools would self-destruct in a matter of days.
Doing that would also take out the water and SEWAGE pumping stations. Community disease flows!
And then the military would be too busy policing large metropolitan centers trying to keep the cannibals from eating the nice folks in the suburbs to do crap about any insurgency.
It was done a few year back in California. Inspectors wouldn’t have known what exactly happened if they hadn’t painted one of the targets with a flashlight. They shot from long range and policed their brass. It was reported that if they had hit one more, there weren’t enough spares to fix it and the results would have been disastrous. (This is all from memory; probably incorrect-ish.)
You may not be buying it, but that just makes you ignorant, not correct. Insurgencies prevail over armies routinely and to assume the military will fire on US citizens is every leftists dream. None of the Army or Marine officers I know would follow such an order.
Since we are going down this hypothetical road, I am not some operator operating operationally, but with my knowledge of warfare, infrastructure and resources, I would have absolutely no problem taking out power, water and most communications in the town I live in. I know where the cops live as well as the military members (if it came to that). None of that would require any difficult to acquire materials (such as high order explosives), nor would I need others (although 4 of us would make it easier).
If your that clever and brave, why don’t you rob banks and see how long you get away with it? Or better yet start a business and get rich, travel the world and bang models. What’s stopping you kid? Oh yeah gotta hang out with my paint ball crew and be ready for that civil war that’s coming.
“You may not be buying it, but that just makes you ignorant, not correct. ”
Oh, Zing! You really got me with that one! Ouch, let me rub some calamine on my blisters for a sec.
Okay, now that we have that taken care of, let’s take a look at your reply. So you sit around with Army and Marine officers and discuss whether or not they would fire on American civilians? This is normal conversation for you? I’m having a hard time picturing a commissioned officer in any branch of service sitting around having a chit chat about gunning down civilians. Better pencil “Skeptical” right there on your list under “Ignorant”.
SiGyStardust (??): we have a citizen army. It’s not made up of mercenaries. They do, indeed sit around (even with civilians!) and discuss policy as they see it. Especially reserve and NG. They have with me. Commissioned officers included (I was one myself (1st LT, USAR CoE)).
And no, the NG probably wouldn’t follow orders to fight against their own community. That’s why they would, if mobilized, be moved to another state, where they have no ties to the community.
Do not underestimate the enemy.
You might want to study the Vietnam War and Russia’s war with Afghanistan a bit. All that technology…..
HALL UAVs weren’t a thing back then. Today our enemies cry rivers about how unfair it is that a drone can literally split their cheeks without them even knowing they are there.
Since I can predict you’ll cite your own military experience as proof of your infallibility, here’s another view from someone else who knows of what he speaks.
You cite an idiot that think the “liberals” didn’t win the first civil war, the north would have been considered the progressives. Then he gets even worse.
Yeah but a rc plane can flame out a drone turbine., a rc plane loaded with c4 can also be detonated on an aux channel to kill a drone too… Off the shelf shit and consumer grade knowhow is all it takes 🙂
High Altitude Long Loiter Unmanned Aerial Vehicles fly up at the edge of the stratosphere and can hang out over your house for four days before having to refuel. You can’t fly your quad-copter up there after it.
@SiGy You have literally no idea how this shit works. None. I’m sure that sweet article in AirForce Magazine or on DefenseNews.com made you an expert, but you clearly glossed over how vulnerable these systems are… to overseas actors who can’t directly attack the infrastructure of the U.S. That doesn’t hold a candle to what a war on the homefront will be like.
You and Glenn keep shitting on everyone, and fail to realize this whole time that no one here wants this impending conflict. The only people itching for a fight are the people with the most to lose: the leftist slavers who live a life on untold luxury compared to human history. No one wins in a civil war, and this particular conflict will be people defending their lives, rights, and freedoms; against those demanding tribute, slavery, and power. You tell me which side has more appeal.
And before you get the hare-brained idea about how mighty our infrastructure is to sustain such a conflict, remember how a majory highway in Atlanta collapsed when some pvc pipe burned underneath it. One fire shut down a major artery for days. One shooter in Vegas on Oct. 1 consumed at least 80% of Metro here all night. One hurricane shut down a swath of the country for months. All it takes is for a few wrenches to be thrown in the system, at the same time or close to it, and this whole country grinds to a halt. When everyone is occupied with the disasters, who will stop the revolutionaries? You?
Any senator who votes to send a repeal to the states would have to go home eventually. Then there would be the state representatives who would already be home to face the People. They would all have to face the music sooner or later and there would be no shortage of people who would make it very clear what the violent consequences of a repeal vote would be.
It is that very fear that stays their hands, and it was the intent of our Founding Fathers – that We the People should always have the power to frighten our government.
Why do you think you have the military? We took an Oath to defend the U.S.Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.
Our federal legislators took the same oath. Look how well they follow it.
Oaths only work if the oath taker believes in what he swore to protect.
This doesn’t mean the military would blindly follow illegal orders. The officer corps is pretty intelligent, and for a good reason: they are the ones who determine of an order is legal or not. (Not talking about company grade officers, but field grade, as they have not only the education but the experience to make such decisions. And the vast majority of the ones I have known would not like an order to fight to overthrow the constitution.)
You are assuming that the military will forego their Oath and go along with it. I would be very surprised to see senior officers and NCOs follow illegal orders. Orders in which they have a solemn duty to disobey.
You would be lucky to get 10% of the military to play ball. You sure as hell wouldn’t see pilots dropping bombs or firing missiles at US civilians. The more likely scenario would be a mass mutiny, followed by the arrest of every senior officer and politician who ordered attacks on citizens.
If the military is used as civilian law enforcement and they fire on fellow Americans, that will be the day that they will lose the support and good will of the people. They will be viewed as oppressors.
Clinton put out a survey to the military asking if they would fire on the citizens of our country and the answer was not what they wanted. Don’t believe the military would be for removal of constitutional rights since it affects them and their families.
I’ve been hearing that bullshit since I joined the Army after 9-11. Never meet one person who claims to have actually taken that survey, not one.
Have you forgotten how one unarmed teenager completely paralysed the Boston area after the Boston Marathon bombing.
On the northern tip of an island a small dedicated organization held off the British Empire for better part of a century. Northern Ireland should have been an easy situation to control. The English controlled the Protestant portion of Northern Ireland but the IRA ran loose in the Catholic part known as Ireland. The IRA took the fight to the heart of London with carbombs and ied’s. You would think with the resources of the British military, Scotland Yard and MI5 they could simply out last the IRA in munitions. Being an island they could surely choke off any inbound supplies. Between the smuggling and insider sympathizers from the British and Irish the IRA biding their time picking high value targets to create the most havoc. If you were thought to be consorting with the Brits you and your entire family were fair game. The body count between the two sides was about even which is no way to win a gorilla war.
It would not likely be an armed revolt like the civil war, or Red Dawn scenarios, but probably would look more like the “troubles” in Ireland, with patriots in the role of the IRA.
I believe King George and the entire English military elite were convinced of the same thing. On 4/19/1775 that belief was put to force. It was a tough and bloody fight but in the end a determined populace with a desire to be Free of Tyranny won the day.
What makes you think the men and women of the American military would follow orders to turn their weapons on fellow Americans revolting because one of the Amendments in the Bill of Rights had been overturned?
Bingo- I think these kids that are going to do their stretches and then go back into the civilian population, where they’re going to want to have the same rights and liberties they had when they enlisted would more likely turn their little mouse guns on their academy wine drinking officers. Ditto the poor duty cops out doing the dirty work in the public and not allowed into the Mayor’s parties. Just sayin’
I’d say nothing widespread, but perhaps a few who make big headlines.
My bet would be on non-enforcement, at least retroactively. Also, we’d have to find out what no 2A looked like.
I’d really rather not pay my taxes first. I am self employed so I can. Unfortunately as I mentioned in an earlier post the Current Tax Payment Act of 1943 (which enacted federal income and payroll tax withholding) makes that extremely difficult for anyone not self employed. We lost the best method of protest to the lack of foresight of the greatest generation. Thanks you old dust farters!
I have no doubt that there would ( will ) be violence over any attempt to repeal the 2nd amendment and it would be very foolish to call for a constitutional convention at this time . Violence is only the tip of the iceberg if it actually looked like an appeal was forthcoming . Can we say Civil war ?
Second American Revolution .
Lol, the majority of the states are RED… I say call it!
But the states with all the people aren’t.
Detail, details don’t bother these future Patton’s and Eisenhower’s with details. The county I’m in has five times the population of Idaho, Montana and Wyoming combined. It also has a fair amount of hardened “insurgents” already (gangbangers) who wouldn’t take to kindly to a bunch of OFWG thinking they run the show.
@Glen. No, you’ll just all starve because you have literally no idea how this country runs. Cities grind to a halt almost immediately if the roads shut down. Go work at a grocery distributor for a few days and see how much the comfy high-population-density centers depend on everyone else supporting their lifestyle.
Stop shitting on everyone else while showing your ass. All you are doing is coming across as a sanctimonious asshole.
“I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children can live in peace.”
The Equal Rights Amendment was foisted on our national consciousness by the media and libs ( but I repeat myself) for over a decade. It barely got on the ballot in only a few states and never really gained traction, despite being a somewhat admirable notion. Any effort to repeal the Second Amendment would have to follow a similar process that the ERA followed to be enacted.
The ERA never got traction; but Title 9, legislation and litigation pretty much accomplished what the amendment intended. This is and will be the tactic of the gun ban movement.
Better restudy the ERA, it got within a couple states of passing real quick, then people started finding out what it would really mean. No more states passed it, the time limit was extended (probably illegal), a couple states wanted to withdraw their approval, and still no more states would pass it, fanatics finally gave up.
The snowflakes of the Left know not what they ask for,there are no safe spaces in love and war.
The following is a piece I wrote and have been copy/pasting everywhere. It deals with the concept of Assault weapon bans, but same basic concept.
Something I think people need to think about.
Let’s say Trump, Congress, Etc., all pass a federal Assault Weapon Ban tomorrow. Everyone cheers, balloons go up, the NRA is finally defeated, the cowardly phallicly challenged gun nuts have lost, and CNN finally says something nice about Donald Trump.
Do you people, HONESTLY, think just because a law is passed, it’s like a magic wand that makes all the bad things disappear? Here’s a little dose of reality.
Let’s assume, to keep in line with other clauses within the Bill of Rights, the government enacts a buyback program like Australia. Like it or not, anything privately owned currently is considered property and was once legal. The government of the United States cannot take private property without fair compensation. These firearms can range in price from $600 to $2500. For argument (and ease of math), let’s assume the average price would be $1000 per firearm. Now, let’s add in the fact that there are, roughly, 10,000,000 of these things in private hands. The government would have to get 10 billion dollars to fund a theoretical buyback, and that price could easily be much higher. That’s just the guns themselves. God knows how many magazines with capacity over 10 rounds are in the country and could easily double the amount of money. It would be no small chunk of change, even for the government. And that’s assuming (HUGE assumption), that all the owners of these guns are willing turn them in. And I can assure you, there’s no way in hell that would happen.
“Well, just kick down everyone’s door and take them.” Okay…
Let’s assume that was an option. In order for that to work, the government would have to somehow, find out who and where every gun owner in America is, coordinate a massive, simultaneous raid on millions of American citizens across the entire country. The government doesn’t have that kind of manpower. Especially considering, only a fraction of the people employed by the government, this includes the military, police on all levels, and the Alphabet Soup of agencies are trained for those kinds of situations. For every single asskicker employed by the government, there’s probably about five other people who ride desks for a living, and nowhere near qualified to handle raiding and physical situations. So that cuts down the amount of people who could do any raiding by ALOT. And as soon as anything even remotely looking like government confiscation started to take place on a national level, word will travel fast, and many gun owners will form militias to defend themselves. Shots will be fired, and through simple attrition, the government will start to lose enough people to be forced to call off raids.
But that’s also not taking into account that the government door-kickers you’d be expecting to do all this would follow orders to begin with. Many cops, military personnel, and government agents are pro Second Amendment, and would be pissed about a weapon ban too. You got to remember, the people who sign up to fight, usually know how to because of their upbringing. Cops, soldiers, marines, a lot of these guys that I talk to say “Hell No” to a gun ban as passionately as Jim Bob, the gun nut. And so you would be expecting them to put themselves in harms way, for a cause they hate no less, and potentially kill people they see as friends or family.
And finally, assuming they all did and assuming the punishment for keeping and being caught with an AR-15 was as severe as being punished by instant death and being thrown in an unmarked mass grave, you know what that would bring about?
And the first people who will suffer are those who pushed gun bans. Hell, anyone found to have a “D” on their voters registration would be in for a world of shit. And because you don’t believe in guns, and you’ve pissed off people you think be protecting you, you would be powerless to stop it.
Do I want that? No. Does this seem like an outrageous, tin foil hat scenario? Maybe. But honestly, all I’m saying is this: Be Careful What You Wish For.
Now let’s address the AR-15 itself. What is it exactly? Here’s the god’s honest, no bullshit truth.
From a purely mechanical standpoint, it is a firearm with three core attributes. It’s a RIFLE, that is SEMI-AUTOMATIC, and FED FROM A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE. That is it. Nothing more, nothing less. Take away the plastic, take away the lasers, and all the other high tech looking bullshit and that’s all you got. Three core mechanical principles that are all over one hundred years old. And one days, someone decided to put all three together. And you see this is why alot of gun guys, myself included, get frustrated when people says we should outlaw them. No one cares if a firearm has any one or two of those features. But as soon as it has all three, it’s automatically assumed to be an evil death dealing machine forged in the depths of Hell by Satan himself and quenched in the blood and tears of innocent children.
No. IT’S. JUST. A. MACHINE. And just like any other machine it can be used for good or evil.
And for argument’s sake let’s say they all did go away tomorrow. Assholes will figure out they can cause way more fear with a scoped hunting rifles. All the people “in the industry” I talk to say dealing with a sniper is bar-none the scariest scenario. Dealing with some Rambo wannabe sucks, but someone hidden somewhere taking potshots with a scoped bolt-gun is way worse. And what’s going to happen when that happens?
“Well, no one needs a Sniper Rifle. You don’t need to shoot a deer from 1000 Yards away.”
Go to Hell.
And yes, before you asks, they did try that before back in 94′ with the Clinton Gun Bill.
So don’t tell me they won’t try and take away all guns. That’s bullshit. Once they do it with one “type” they can eventually do it with all of them.
Yep, the whole ‘scopes are evil’ thing was definitely a thing.
Related to LEOs it really depends on WHERE you live.
In conservative areas, particularly those whose primary LEOs are elected Sheriffs, you’ll generally find more 2A supporting LEOs.
Unfortunately, in larger cities (particularly in places like NYC, greater LA, Seattle, Chiraq, etc), where the chief law enforcement officer is an appointed position, you’ll generally find a much lower (or nearly non-existent) level of 2A support. You would see much more aggressive and pro-active enforcement in those areas. Resistance there would require 4GAW.
The leftists will ask the U.N. to come in with mostly Russian and Chinese troops wearing their blue helmets.
House #1 in my neighborhood will probably lose it’s guns, let them go peacefully, then as the blue helmets move to house #2, (where they’ll stall and wander), he’ll go out the back to door to house #3 and call houses #4-10 and round up the troops. He’ll borrow a long gun and join the rest back at house #2 where they will then have crosshairs on officer heads. My kids and all my neighbor’s kids grew up practicing markmanship with blue helmets…
Send David Hogg, Delaney Tarr, Cameron Lasky, Emma Gonzalez and the rest of their snowflake supporters to go confiscate the guns if they want bans so badly.
The whole “door to door” thing isn’t how it would be done.
If they know who you are, you (or someone in your household or circle of friends) have to go out for supplies once in a while. Instead of knocking down your door, they simply take you (or your surrogate) while you are out. Then they knock your door down and loot an empty house.
How do you think the FBI arrests all of the ‘domestic terrorists’ they manage to get? And make no mistake, we will be labeled ‘domestic terrorists.’
Do not underestimate the enemy.
How would they know when you are out? Is an agent watching your house like a stake out scenario?
They are going to confiscate 330 million firearms by waiting for people to leave there home? Do you realize how long that would take? Do you realize the manpower they would have to commit?
Obviously its a effective way to trap one or two guys a week, but we are talking about 30 to 40 million people here.
Exactly TOMMYG, that’s why I was questioning that tactic. Seems very slow and expensive if they have to watch you to get a sense of your lifestyle. The storm the castle approach is far more efficient albeit more risky to the treacherous LEOs.
Yes, an agent. Oh, not a paid one in the Bureau, but a neighbor who’s facing a DUI, or some other criminal charge, who is given a list of names in his area to keep an eye on. It’s often done. And would be more in a case such as this. This is a force multiplier.
Never underestimate your enemy. If I can think of this, they have, believe me.
Survivordude, eloquently written, more than likely exactly how it would play out.
Justice Stevens Hillary Nancy Charlie and any other idiot that flaps their Yap about repealing the Second Amendment is great..Great for galvanizing sentiment against them… all we have to do is call what they’re doing a ban or repeal of the 2nd Amendment consistently and they will fall.
There are still plenty of people around who have lived under tyranny, who are now free. Why is it that those who have been freed from it, I.e, East Germany and now free Soviet States are more vocal about this than the moronic general pubic in this country. They know and lived the results first hand of the potential loss of 2A. This useful idiot effort to mobilize the youth is clearly a repeat which was seen in Germany beginning in the 30’s. History is clearly repeating itself. Oh, I forgot, history is no longer taught in government schools. Wonder why?
Yeah, it would get really ugly really fast. Image hundreds of Wacos and Ruby Ridges. Imagine hundreds of Austin-style bombs going off all over the country. Imaging planes falling from the sky.
I think it might prove difficult for the G to recruit new agents to confiscate guns after enough of them are shipped home in mattress covers.
It’s unthinkable. Which is why it’s also so unlikely. The slave masters will proceed incrementally, as they usually do.
Forget the agents themselves… Reprisals are a thing, and once you pull a couple Wacos… the friends and family of every agent you have on staff become legitimate targets. People forget that even Waco generated a response. That response was not a pipebomb in a delivery box… it was Oklahoma City. Given how many people in the general population have spent some time in the past few years hunting insurgents for a living…
The % of the population who “hunted” terrorists is infinitesimal, JSOC, many of whom are still in uniform and hence the people your ruminating on killing. 75 % of combat m.o.s.’s 75% of the time where just conducting fancily written up glorified forms of movement to contact in between a big meal and a full nights sleep, watching there bank accounts grow tax free and dreaming of new cars and new guns, hores and liquor back home. You think any of that is gonna happen in your DnD insurgency fantasies?
You think JSOC would find a lot of volunteers to go shoot up American citizens on US soil? Really? You’ve never talked to any of those guys in your life, have you?
I had a guy from 4th RTB once tell me how sick of Army bullshit he was, and how much he was dreading returning to one of the operational bats, rotating between Afghanistan and Iraq, never seeing his family and risking his life for bad foreign policy and greed that wasn’t accomplishing anything. He swore he was gonna get out. Guess what? He didn’t. He kept risking his life over something he thought was bullshit. You know why? Because he loved his job, the guys he worked with and his family and didn’t want to wind up doing the VA job fair / disability merry go round and having to face a wife and kids that had gotten used to a certain standard of living. You naively believe that what people say they’re gonna do when faced with a gut wrenching decision, is what they’re actually gonna do. If you’ve been around a bit then you should know better.
Sure you have Glenny… sure you have… and I had this personal dinner with the commandant and half of MARSOC…
You done goofed kiddo.
4th Ranger TRAINING Battalion? Really?
Unless you’re talking about the 4th Recruit Training Battalion… which would be even more hilarious, as I doubt you’d find a single “guy” in that particular unit.
You had a personal dinner with the commandant of the Marine Corp and half of MARSOC? Wow! That does defy credibility. You know what doesn’t? Being posted at Kelley Hill on Fort Benning over a decade ago and getting drunk at a bar out in Columbus and meeting a guy who was cadre at Ranger School. In fact it happened quite frequently back then and I would venture to guess still does today.
So your source is some dude with a ranger tab you met in a bar? Damn bro, you just don’t stop.
Uh-huh yup. It’s called befriending someone you partied with a couple times in the military and then checking in with them periodically via phone and email over the years. Guys do things like that ya know? Difficult concept for you to grasp I’m sure.
Pretty sure that blowing some dude with ranger tabs behind a bar does not constitute “befriending”.
“Would Trying to Repeal the 2A Result in Violence? Question of the Day”
Yes. Next question.
If it was going to happen, That would be the time for it to happen. Then again: if the proceedings were held properly and in line with our process for amending the constitution- I suspect the violence that would ensue would be from civil war 2.0 as individual states tried to succeed soon after the convention ends.
There would certainly be people raising hell before that point which would open up the possibility of the amendment actually passing as the antis demonize their actions.
This will never happen however- a constitutional convention would be a shit storm and open quite a few more doors for problems ( that would likely require the 2nd to fix)
But if it did happen it would be interesting time to be sure…we wouldn’t see .22 ammo for decades!
That would be the first thing they would do is shut down ALL Ammo & ammo loading supplies, so they would have a chance.
Violence? Hell no. Most gun people are scared to legally open carry because a soccer mom might see them.
Once I move my ass out of Illinoisistan, I would be leaving the house without my gun on my hip. Right now, it’s still there, but under a sweatshirt.
The left is indoctrinating kids to give up the rights naturally, they are patient in that it will take a few generations and know it is a better approach than outright repeal that will no doubt result in violence if done now. We are seeing and would continue to see a systematic degradation of the 2A through bills that will widely limit types of firearms and then accessories and ammunition, and finally voluntary purge of almost all types of firearms before abolishing the right to bear. Internet memes are becoming the norm and does a really good job of blurring the facts, soon (if not now) data driven arguments, the press, or even homes with true American values will have little to no effect on the preconditioned minds of teens and young adults.
My idea is that they will just ban the sale/transfer, and let all current owners just die off. Gun ban established, no fuss.
I’ve heard that before. Tell me how, exactly, they are going to remain under the radar while *enforcing* any ban on sale/transfer (which I and many others would completely ignore)? I don’t think that is going to be as easy as some seem to think.
Send a notice to all the manufacturer’s and distributors to cease sales of prohibited products or threaten them with civil action, or audit.
Time to stop wearing all the molon labe, 3%er and Spartan SWAG and actually do something.
In my opinion though not much will happen as long as Americans can drink beer, watch ball and sit on the couch. In order for true change things must become uncomfortable.
Most will just run out and bury them in the back yards “until its time”. Well if you gotta bury them then the time has come and gone.
If need be, I’m burying my guns in CA/NY/NJ/MD/WA/IL/HI . . . (check the blue/red voting map for locations near you).
It’s not time. Nothing has happened yet besides “gun safety” people have revealed themselves to be “gun grabbers.” If their fantasies start getting enacted, then it’ll be time to do something. Even the imminent minor infringements, like bump stock and under-21 bans, still need to be adjudicated.
“It’s not time” so when is it time little mouse?
After the gov’t bans websites that prohibit responses and comments on articles! Got back to non-reply magazine format where 5 or responses are printed in next publication at EDITORS desecration!
YOU – “We can only hope.”
me – “YOU BET YOUR ASS !”
Yes. That’s what makes the Second Amendment unique. It’s the only one needed most when they try to take it away.
“You give up your gun, and I will get you to give up everything else.” [J.M. Thomas, R., TERMS, 2012, Pg. 39]
In a word YES.
The Senators and Congressmen who voted for that would have to be evacuated to Camp David, and even then they might get a copper jacketed recall from one of their guards.
Preferably before the first state votes were held. With armed constituents living right next door.
Camp David is prime hunting territory for guns (both rifle / shotgun and pistol, also great for bow-hunting likewise for use of bear traps! Put paper(s) on picnic table with box of pens and then just wait.
The U.S. Bill of Rights
The Preamble to The Bill of Rights
Congress of the United States
begun and held at the City of New-York, on
Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.
“THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
And if Amendment 28 nullified the 2nd, then….
Any resistance would be isolated and disjointed. Unlike the prelude to the American Revolution we have no organized structure, no acknowledged leadership. Additionally, the intelligence sources available to the government would make planning an organized resistance extremely difficult or impossible. The only thing you’d see would be scattered groups of isolated gun owners fighting back only to be eliminated and depicted as extremists and “terrorists”.
Unfortunately, the Constitutional Republic the Founders thought they bequeathed to us died a while ago.
you just keep on believing that…..but in the mean time, you need to read up on how guerrilla/insurgent/asymetrical actions have formed in the past and how quickly they were organized.
As long as no one plans to organize via the internet or their cell phones. Those would be switched off real quick.
Switched off? That’s the number one way they would catch you clowns. That’s the number one way they catch you clowns now! If you guys really believe in the bullshit you claim too has it ever occurred to you that your already found, fixed and fucked simply by posting here? Sheeessshhh, my goodness. You guys are all either very old, or very un-sophisticated or both.
I think he means that they would take down cell towers, internet backbones, and drive a few short buses through electrical substations just to make things interesting. After all, they won’t need such things because they’ll be out hiding in abandoned mine shafts, dressed in burlap ponchos, sharpening their Buck 184’s.
I think ‘ol John actually cut up a canvas tarp or tent to wear, but yeah I get your meaning. Bunch of Rambo’s here, all of them. One of the few instances of the movie being better than the book. The book glorifies violence against civilians just like a lot of the psychos here. The movie actually examines the psychological consequence of veterans returning from war in a much more humane and sympathetic manner.
Yes, it would lead to violence, and a lot of it. This is the best summary of what I think would happen. Written by a retired infantry colonel.
Sounds about right, thanks for sharing.
Boy Glen, you sure do have all the answers don’t you. Seem to have quite an over inflated opinion of yourself and how great and superior you are over the rest of us minions. NOT !!!You just go ahead and keep telling all of us how it’s done being as you seem to know everything.
It would result in 10 million heavily armed PATRIOTS. Would make Iraq, Afghanistan, and Vietnam look like walks in the park.
10 million? Get real. Maybe a few dozen. They’d be quickly killed or imprisoned. The “patriots” would be posting “play stupid games win stupid prizes” and “looks like they found the attention they were looking for” on the internet just like now on all the gun forums.
You must be one of those stupid jack booted thug bully LE types paid to guide the narrative by commenting here. How’s that Soros paycheck?
Just posting what I observe. We can’t get a thousand people to a pro gun rally. Never mind millions taking up arms.
A RALLY? You’re kidding, right? Why would I go to a rally, those are for sissy-boys demanding attention. Let me know when and why the shooting starts, and I’ll decide whether my participation is justified, but I won’t be going to “rallies”. Also probably a great way to get your name and address on a federal list.
Won’t go to a rally, but he’ll definitely get off the couch and murder another citizen. Right.
Good way to get on a federal list? You mean like posting violent rhetoric here? Purchasing bulk ammo on line? If you really believe that you live in a fascist police state that’s coming for your guns, trust me they already outsmarted you in like 1996 and have just been laughing at you ever since. Like I said the level of sophistication on here is bigly, un good. Except you Jason you seem to have a grip on reality at least.
Ohio has gotten a thousand at our Statehouse. If the event organizers appear serious, Ohio gets the numbers.
If there are lists, I’ve been on them since the late 1980s.
Oh, and we organize it in the open on fecesbook. 😉
One example from last month: http://www.facebook.com/events/2042622746063163/
Here is an example from 2013: http://www.facebook.com/events/495069110543321/
There was one that I and others counted significantly over 2,000 coming and going but the official estimate was given a bit lower to account for error. It was freezing cold that day and we had another less than a month later in the same bitter cold. The numbers were a little smaller but still, IIRC, around 1,000.
There are many events in Ohio. Not all draw large crowds. Our people are usually very conservative in attendance estimates in case they get called out in the media. These are almost always openly armed events.
Some of us also do more than rallies at the Statehouse. I have protested and walked with many groups. One group was focused on open carry, DUI checkpoints with mandatory blood draw, and PINAC. One county sheriff, after his first blood draw checkpoint, went on the record in media saying that he would do no more. In these examples, we are openly armed and in the checkpoint itself. LE is on one side of the car and we are on the other.
These things can be done. It requires the will to do them. Numbers really, really help. Generally, the larger the group, the less hassle.
Willful ignorance is a choice. You have obviously made yours.
Pro-gun folks tend to be reactive, not pro-active. We generally don’t want to fire the first shot. Which is why they call most encounters with us defensive gun uses.
The reality is a lot of things will have to happen to start the snowball of “civil war”.
Step 1: Criminalize your target
It starts with legislation that makes criminals out of previously law-abiding gun owners and when the gun-grabbing becomes more than an unconstitutional mandate and force is involved.
Step 2: Control your target
Then, when local authorities or govt agencies attempt to seize firearms by force from the average law abiding citizen and people start getting injured or dying, that’s when the wildfire will start and a call to arms will likely happen in the gun community. Everyone will go back to tribalism. Gun owners will band together into small militias and resist.
Step 3: Survival of the fittest
At this point the govt or state will either stand down or there will be a prolonged siege and if the outcome goes badly for the good citizens, that’s when people realize the same can happen to them and it will force mobilization and gun owners will have to take the offensive lest they take their chances and be overrun.
But each scenario above generally happens in a predictable sequence.
Yes because repealing the Second Amendment would result in violence being perpetrated by the state against gun owners and we of course would have to reciprocate.
Nah, “trying” to repeal the 2A and actually repealing it are two separate things. Does anyone really think that 353 representatives are going to vote for repeal (I concede that it might be easier to get 66 senators to vote for it) AND 38 out of 50 states? I could see 12 states voting FOR it, with the other 38 voting AGAINST. Violence prior to a repeal would be grist for the gun ban mill.
I have noticed a distinct lack of understanding of how amendments get passed. Its a non-trivial matter, and this would be significantly more controversial than the ERA.
The SCOTUS justice allowed that repealing 2A would be “a simple thing”, demonstrating severe dementia.
If the FORMER Justice is delusional, well, the last 10 years of his decisions should be reviewed?
You mean, the FORMER justice, who’s 97 years old. It’s simple in theory, repeal the 2nd, the logistics are incredibly difficult to achieve.
Regarding those millions of gun owners, consider this excerpt from Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag: “Arrests are classified according to various criteria: nighttime and daytime; at home, at work, during a journey; first-time arrests and repeats; individual and group arrests. Arrest are distinguished by the degree of surprise required, the amount of resistance expected (even though in tens of millions of cases no resistance was expected and in fact there was none).” Frightening picture of what could happen in America.
Time to move to Alabama and start your own church.
The process would rip the populace in two. It would eventually lead to armed conflict. The colonists did not erupt into armed resistance all at once. It came after years of abuse (which is already happening). Armed conflict was finally kicked off by the “Powder Alarms” when the British started confiscating ammunition components.
However in my opinion the question is moot. The anti’s have nowhere near the votes or support necessary to get a repeal of the 2nd through the legislative process (2 thirds majority of both houses) to propose the amendment much less get 75% of the state legislatures to vote yes.
This is why anti approach has been “make it harder for people to own, use and enjoy firearms”. The goal of the death by a thousand cuts strategy is to slowly decrease the number of americans who own firearms to the point where it would be politically possible to repeal the 2nd.
They are nowhere near it at this point.
Its also why the assault weapons ban is so important to them. It was a domino that they had towards this goal and they lost.
I agree entirely. Support for the 2nd amendment runs deep in our DNA. Despite the current anti-gun hysteria, the gun-controller’s claims for success are largely ephemeral. History shows us that social movements similar to gun-control burn-bright and then fade when they fail to convince a majority of citizens to embrace their values. This latest anti-gun protest seemed like a nadir to me.
Yes it will result in many people getting killed. Government folks and civilians both.
When the Democrats are in the majority of Congress and the judiciary and hold the Whitehouse, they ram through their agenda. When the Democrats are in the minority of Congress, the judiciary and there is a Republican President, they still ram through their agenda. I have little hope for our nation any more.
That’s not how amendments work.
I’m not worried about the repeal of the 2nd amendment — I think that will take a few more exoduses of Californians for that to happen. I am more worried about the local laws that are being passed or are going to pass. There are so many laws being passed that infringe on people’s rights there is no way to have the courts toss each one out within your or my lifetime. In the meantime, those people live under “legal” tyranny and law enforcement licks their chops knowing they get to use their toys.
Not many gun owners are going to resort to violence because their life is more valuable than their liberty, especially for white people. African and Asian Americans are more likely to attack the government because they still are not treated the same as the European Americans.
It appears the only time white America will fight back is when the government actually moves to take all guns from everyone. Then some of them will fight a lost cause. Most of them will want to stay alive because they have a family. They don’t have the same dedication for liberty as a Muslim has for their religion.
Minorities are more likely to fight for their liberty because they constantly get taken advantage of no matter where they go. Unfortunately, most of them will fight for some Communist ideal because the abomination that is current day America will be used to blame Capitalism and “The Bill of Whites’ Rights” (as minorities like to think of it).
Looks like white America has to fix what they broke… Minorities will burn the place down if white America keeps making excuses for not being active like they should be. Stop saying the NRA will fix things, you have to go to work instead of getting involved, vote in anyone that is a Republican, all law enforcement are good, the courts will rule against the government, etc.
Ask yourself why most of the school shooters are white. Why is it there is more school shootings now than a few decades ago?
It’s much easier to progress the culture of America to a healthy place and fix the local laws right now than it is to fight physically. If you want to fight physically, you would have started now by freeing people from oppressive state government officials instead of waiting for the entire country to be on the brink of total dictatorship.
There are not more school shootings than decades ago. That myth has been throughly busted.
So in the 70s and 80s there was a bunch of school shootings?
Quite a few, yes.
More in the last 3, than the 10 before, and that was more than, the prior, etc.
BUT, its still a teeny tiny percentage. Yes, its more than Canada or Australia, but we’re a bit bigger, still would be lower, but at some point you do have a cost for some of the freedoms we enjoy. Occasionally a nutter kills 15 people. Overall I’m still more worried about gang or domestic violence, since that’s thousands of times more likely to happen.
jwtaylor, that’s not what I meant. I am talking about a specific type of school shooting, not all shooting that happen at a school. Also, I would include shooting like the Aurora theater shooting. You know what I meant.
Dude your hanging with the wrong crowd here. About half the commenters here are down low racists and your talk of race faction violence is right in there wheel house. They’d be happy to have it, and if your not white would view you as the enemy. Just because your pro 2a doesn’t mean you fit in with most these guys, you should be happy not too, they’re racist nuts, but then again it seems like you might be too.
If the 2nd goes away expect the conflict to follow an exact copy of the Spanish Civil War. Read up gentlemen things will get ugly.
Answer me this Batman, After a bloody conflict/ civil war, Who pray tell is going to represent our constitutionalist conservative party (new political party formed by us) in the govt and regain peace. who is negotiating with the enemy for their surrender?
Easy to start a war hard to clean up and re start the country.
If we’re in power are we going to repeal laws
reform tax structure
We already did it before and already have a document, the U.S. Constitution.
Try to keep up!!
A single standard for carrying a loaded weapon in public and for casting a vote in a public election would go a long way towards bringing about a compromise on voting rights and gun rights.
Telling your followers to vote against other people’s gun rights is no different than telling them to start shooting against someone else’s voting rights.
It would get messy. And we’d know who the traitors ARE. HE!! a few dozen held off BLM with AR’s at the Bundy ranch. Would a bunch of feds,cops and military go full retard? Yes to their eternal sorrow…
Violence denotes a crime. Resistance denotes a legitimate redress of grievances. I would be apt to submit resistance up to and including armed resistance if need be.
I’d love to see a point by point list of the pros and cons of repealing the 2nd Amendment by the people wanting to do the deed. I already know they don’t have a clue of what it’ll actually mean.
To anyone with intellectual honesty, it wouldn’t be hard to imagine the US without the 2A… all you need to do is look at history and then at countries without RKBA you will see a ruling class dictating terms to the plebs. And in sort order, the 1st amendment would also be negated by those that control the narrative.
If you think the Leftist media is annoying now, just imagine how it will be without the 2A and protected speech.
But one thing is certain. People on the Left think they are self-appointed royals and are wanting change for the sake of change just so they can say they are “making a difference” or doing something with their boring lives. That’s the reality and they get pretty upset when you call them out on it.
I think a War could be won relatively easily, with little to no civilian casulties, capture certain progressive politicians y’all know who, some rhino’s too.
held at gunpoint and force them to stand trial for dereliction of duty to uphold their constitutional oath. summarily imprisioned. You want as much public support as possible
even during march for our lie lefty moon bats said they didnt trust the govt.
You are not a smart man.
No he most certainly is not, but unfortunately he is about typical for around here. Honestly it’s like listening to children play with G.I. Joes sometimes, or when like my drunk grandpa would rant at thanksgiving. If these guys represent the 2A movement then apparently it’s devolved in to fantasy role playing non sense where everyone is a legend in there own mind.
I spent a bit of time in some bad places, and I do not think people have a realistic idea of what an insurgency looks like.
Absolutely correct, they have none at all. The biggest myth they hold is that some how the factions that start the war will be the ones that finish it at the end, that those factions will even still exist in any original form or ideologically pure sense. Most of these posters are sheltered yet still some how bitter boomers that don’t realize how good modern American society has been to them. The few X ers on here are probably motivated by vague resentment of a society that screwed them economically and the even fewer millennials have grown up in fantasy saturated culture and have no real outlet for feeling “manly”.
Glen, you need to take your holier than though diatribe to some far left wing site and stop slamming all of the poor folks who are so far beneath you superior intellect on this site, we are all but a shadow to your greatness and all knowing wisdom. Seriously dude, you need to go suck a fat one !!!!
Police will be barricading themselves inside their stations! Why? They will be out numbered – out gunned (by numbers of) and ammunition restricted.
Individual Military members have the option to refuse IMMORAL and ILLEGAL Orders!
Just like a ZOMBIE movie / TV series where it’s infected against the uninfected; it’ll be armed with guns against those unarmed until they to pickup arms!
Will socialist/left politicians be the first gun resistance targets? Could the same category of Judges be included?
No, this would not be like a zombie movie, for one, zombie’s aren’t real, and they don’t shoot back.
Plus, I don’t think you have an accurate idea of what a modern police force is like.
If the government wants it done, they’ll get it done. I’ve ask for a march to the white House to show unity for the Constitution, NO TAKERS, I’ve then came up with a more easily attainable protest, One Day Off From Work, no takers. Americans are more worried about losing their new car then they are of losing their country. I’ve posted my phone number on TTAG hoping someone would help me organize a peaceful march or a one day off from work protest to let “our” voices be heard over the other “ban gun” protesters. No phone calls. I’ve tried organizing here in my “local hicksville”, they blow me off as some kind of tin foil hat wearing nut because” it won’t happen here”. If the gubment wants it done they’ll get it done. One Day Off From Work, no fuel purchase, food or anything, turn off every electric appliance ,keep your children out of school that day, deny the city’s their means of revenue. Our own little “government shutdown”. Money versus bullets, hit em in the wallet
You’re describing Moonbat time, yourself! There is no reason to do any such at this point. Therefore you have no takers. Maybe take a hint. You sound like you believe all conservatives are as eager to follow fruitcakes as the average liberal.
We’re a pretty far cry from any violence supporting any change to the Bill of Rights. Note the need for two thirds in both the House and the Senate, followed by ratification by three quarters of the states. Tough hurdles to leap.
Personally, I’m more focused on working within the system, supporting those legislators at both the state and federal level that support the 2nd Amendment and the Heller decision. Violence? Talk to me about that after the procedural hurdles are cleared…and I just don’t see that happening anytime soon.
Even if the left were to get something like this passed, who do they think is going to enforce it? It’s not like leftists are climbing over themselves to join the police or, in the event of suspension of posse comitatus, the military. American leftists generally fetishize laws, but in reality someone has to go out and enforce them, and who in their right mind would want to start taking guns away from otherwise law abiding citizens. Also, don’t get me started on the mass jury nullification movement that would be started after any such event. Call me overly optimistic, but I think that the founders have these idiots boxed.
FWIW: This is just a further example of the general problem with leftists, which is that they don’t think past their emotional outburst to what it is that they are actually proposing.
IF – and that’s a very big IF – the 2nd Amendment went away you’d see a majority of the American people react in the same way that they’ve historically reacted to stupid, illegal, unreasonable or unconstitutional laws. They’d just ignore the laws and go on with their business. Look at how the public treated prohibition – which was also a constitutional thing and proved to be one of the most ignored and hated laws in our history. Prohibition gave a big boost to organized crime, promoted government corruption, and encouraged people to disrespect the law. The old 55mph speed limit was another example of a silly and unreasonable law. I drove cross country during those days in a very worn out Toyota Land Cruiser pulling a U-Haul trailer. I could get maybe 60mph out of the rig going down hill with a tail wind. Everybody passed me and gave me the one finger salute for blocking traffic. The CB radio craze of the 70’s was devoted to one thing – beating the double nickel. On a more gun related note – how many people in the red states have actually obeyed the recent prohibitions on assault weapons and restrictions on magazine capacity? Probably the same number that quit drinking when Prohibition went into effect.
They call this “Irish Democracy” (maybe appropriate when talking about prohibition) – people resist the mandates of their would be rulers by simply refusing to comply with them. At some point the anti gun people will realize that they can’t throw everybody who owns a gun in jail. Who would be left to guard them? If they try to shoot the gun owners, they’ll shoot back – and who wants to get shot? They couldn’t throw everybody who enjoyed a cold beer in jail. It took a while but eventually the powers that be realized that their “noble experiment” was a stupid law and it went away.
If the 2nd were to go away – and I honestly think that the odds for that happening are about the same as my winning the Powerball – I don’t want to contemplate blood in the streets. I do see almost universal passive resistance on the part of the people and lots by law enforcement and the military. If things get really bad I believe that the words “mutiny” and even “coup” will be used. That won’t be pretty but the snowflakes should read some history – which they won’t – and consider the unintended consequences of their actions.
You talk tough and speak of prohibition. If you want to know how laughable it would be in regards to a resistance read my lower post but lets address your ignorance on the Prohibition, pay attention and next time you will not make such a fool of yourself when talking about prohibition.
Prohibition actually did exactly what it was designed to do, it made hard liquor so expensive its consumption dropped dramatically and studies have shown that despite the fantasy of Hollywood movies crime in general went down, domestic violence took a very big drop, and auto accidents went down, murder and assaults went down as well. Prohibition passed because it had widespread support and continued to have widespread support throughout the time it was in effect. It only really ended because the greed mongers and corrupt people in power woke up to the fact that they were losing to much money in tax revenue when they compared the tax money they were now making on the sale of beer as opposed to the added tax revenue they formerly made with the addition of hard liqueur taxes.
The “real life” prohibition days were nothing like what the movies portray. Even the “the mobs” finally formed a democratic organization that did a very good job of settling disputes without going to war with each other something almost always overlooked in the glorified Hollywood gangster movies. Peaceful gangsters do not sell very many movies.
Well I guess that I do “talk tough” by discussing the idea of Irish Democracy – passive resistance to stupid laws. I observed it first hand in regards to the Carter era speed laws and I see it now with the non-compliance to the various assault weapon bans. My knowledge of history says that it worked pretty well for Ghandi in securing independence for India. Of course the Brits had a sense of decency and fairness and didn’t resort to wholesale massacre to hang on to India. Yes there were casualties but compare it to what some other colonial powers would have done (the French or Germans or Belgians) and you might agree that the British Empire wasn’t all that bad – but we can’t dare to say that in our politically correct age.
My knowledge of prohibition comes from anecdotal accounts of friends and family members. I know that those accounts aren’t “scholarly peer reviewed” and therefore aren’t “official” documents but I have read a bit on the era. I would submit that the prohibition movement was pushed by a relatively small group of middle age women who picked on alcohol as the cause of all of society’s problems. Many of these women such as Carrie Nation were married to abusive alcoholic husbands. Rather than campaign against the laws of the day that winked at spousal abuse, they said that demon rum was the problem. Sounds a lot like today’s gun control movement, doesn’t it?
At the same time they pushed the idea that racially superior people of northern European descent – Brits, Protestant Germans, Norwegians etc didn’t have a problem with alcohol. Only the Catholic peoples of southern Europe – Italians, Spaniards, French, Balkans, couldn’t be trusted to drink because those “Papists” had no morals and no self control. The prohibition movement became a Protestant vs Catholic thing. When the US entered WW1 Prohibition was pushed as a way to make sure that the hard working Protestants in the defense plants wouldn’t come to work with a hang over.
I doubt very strongly that the average working man in the US supported prohibition. If they were a church goer – as most of the people were in those days – they gave verbal support to the movement because no Baptist or Methodist wanted to come out as being in favor of liquor. They agreed with their wives and tried to find a place where a thirsty man could get a drink.
Now here’s where the anecdotal evidence comes in. My wife’s grandfather had a trucking business in Philadelphia. During the 20’s his trucks made runs to the Jersey shore to pick up shipments of “the real McCoy” booze. Grandpa Thompson said that booze was easier to find in Philly than in the days before prohibition. He was a devout Methodist and carried a Smith and Wesson New Century in a hollowed out Bible in his truck. Thankfully he never had to use it.
I’ll admit that I’ve not looked at the crime statistics for the prohibition era. The books can be cooked to make the numbers come out any way you want. My gut feeling as an American is that prohibition did nothing good for this country. When you use words like “proletariat” and call me a fool because I see history through a different – and probably clearer – set of glasses I don’t have a lot more to say to you.
Quote—————– My knowledge of history says that it worked pretty well for Ghandi in securing independence for India. Of course the Brits had a sense of decency and fairness and didn’t resort to wholesale massacre to hang on to India.—————quote
You just proved your knowledge of history is at about absolute zero. The British were the antithesis of decency and fairness as the slaughter they visited on both the people of India and China comes close the the slaughter the Nazi’s perpetrated in WWII. Entire books have been written on the outrages the British committed in India. Even the movie Gandhi as brief as it was in regards to the British in India had more than one horrific seen of the slaughter of innocent people. The best part of the movie is when the arrogant British General said to Gandhi “What do you expect us to do, just pack our bags and go home” to which Gandhi replied “Yes that is exactly what I expect you to do, just pack your bags and go home”. Now that line was priceless.
Quote————————–Yes there were casualties but compare it to what some other colonial powers would have done (the French or Germans or Belgians) and you might agree that the British Empire wasn’t all that bad – but we can’t dare to say that in our politically correct age—————–quote—————-
Surely you jest on that response. I suggest you read up on the British opium wars and the mass slaughter the British Caused during those wars which not only included war casualties but perhaps well over several million deaths from opium all caused directly by the British. I dare say it was not until the Nazi’s rampaged in WWII that they killed more people than the British. And do not forget the British rape of China during the Boxer Rebellion period of the late 1800’s. Another 1 1/2 million Chinese slaughtered.
Yes Hillbilly America could have learned from Gandhi that firepower often guarantees you will lose a war before the first shot is ever fired as the U.S. just might have won its war in Vietnam or should I say never fought a war if they had pursued a plan similar to Gandhi’s. Its interesting to note that Britain, France and the super Arrogant Americans all got their asses run out of Asia by two very little and harmless looking men in that corner of the world as both Gandhi and Ho Chi Minh now rank as two of the most famous political leaders in history while the British Generals and American Generals of those two periods are practically forgotten to the point that when their names are mentions many people today have never even heard of them. Poetic justice I would say as the “good guys” won both of those conflicts proving that “Yes there is a God”.
thats what happened april 19 1775 in middlesex county province of massachusetts bay within the towns of lexington concord lincoln menotomy and cambridge
just like then all its going to take is ONE SHOT
the rest will be history
it may not even come to that
remember what happened at the bundy ranch standoff:
200 federal agents wisely stood down and retreated in the face of an even greater number of armed citizens toting rifles
it was a resounding victory for the people and an embarassing loss for the government
not a shot was fired
THERE WILL *ALWAYS* BE MORE OF US THAN THEM
its was EXACTLY like the saying goes:
“when the government fears the people there is liberty”
and that was over a land grab…
at the end of the day any gun grab would be attempted by people doing their JOB who just want to “make it back home to their family at the end of their shift”
any gun grab would be resisted by people who ARE DEFENDING THEIR LIBERTY THEIR COUNTRY THEIR FAMILY THEIR CORE BELIEFS AND THEIR GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO SELF PROTECTION
way more motivation there i think
The Bill of Rights lists Rights people naturally have. They are not granted by government. As such, they cannot be “repealed.”
“Thus, the well regulated militia necessary to the security of a free state was a militia that might someday fight against a standing army raised and supported by a tyrannical national government. Obviously, for that reason, the Framers did not say “A Militia well regulated by the Congress, being necessary to the security of a free State” — because a militia so regulated might not be separate enough from, or free enough from, the national government, in the sense of both physical and operational control, to preserve the “security of a free State.”
“it would make no sense to suggest this referred to a grant of “regulation” power to the government (national or state), when the entire purpose of the Bill of Rights was to both declare individual rights and tell the national government where the scope of its enumerated powers ended.”
The bill of rights defines the specific limitations that government can impose on a right. If there isn’t the 2nd, then the amount of regulations that can be applied would be nearly limitless.
I think Americans tend to brag a little too much about how they will take to arms to defend the 2A, but I think its mostly hot air. We have been slowly becoming a nation of sissy’s when compared to the greatest generation (your grandpa’s).
I do think however, that an armed rebellion could occur as a result of a heavy handed response to a small number of Patriots. If the govt goes on a massacre, that will cause the response
There is only one thing you can count on when it comes to Conservatives blind greed and the stingy cheap grasping of pennies so hard they scream for mercy when they pass through their hands.
Now tell me people like this would even consider losing their homes, their businesses, their jobs, their bank accounts , their cars and their personal freedom. Now we are talking about “reality” not the thing Conservatives are best at “bullshitting and talking tough. They are all a joke even unto themselves and they all know it.
In other countries people have turned in their guns with nary a whimper because they knew they stood no chance against well armed brainwashed robotic wind up young hot blooded professional military killers just eager for the kill with a lot of torture and rape fun thrown in. If you think the “rape of Nanking” by the Japanese Army was an aberration of humanity you do not know anything about humanity as its the norm not the exception when dealing with any military of any country. Its standard operating procedure and has been for the last 5,000 years of recorded history.
I must give the Americans credit for one thing when the order is given the proletariat would pitch in and you would be surprised how little time it would take to round up 300 million guns and melt them all down. Australia is another good example on the mass destruction of modern firearms and it happened with nary a whimper because they had to do it “or else” and as the German Nazi’s used to smile and say “all the people we deal with know perfectly well” what “or else” means.
what was that commie puppet boy??
is that hand up your puppet ass starting to affect your brain??
to bobo. Your moniker really says it all.
Oops Bobo I almost forgot to mention “Komrade’s for Trump” will soon have a list of “Putin Approved” political candidates for you to vote for in 2018. We will give you further instructions at a later date and it will make you feel good when voting for the only candidates that “can possibly win”. We were successful in your 2016 Presidential race and in our own Presidential election recently. Its always comforting to know when your candidate “cannot lose”. Thank us for running your political process so efficiently and give our warmest regards to Komrade Trump.
I know why you call yourself cisco–it really rhymes with crisco! that lub your boss uses on your ass!
Ohh and if PutStain is ruilliing over Trump –then why are the Russians getting marching orders to leave the USA?????
even your boss agrees!
Trying no. Actually repealing, yes… but given how much support repeal would have to have by that point, probably not much. Declaring it ‘repealed’ by fiat without following the constitutional process – hell yes.
Did rose Kennedy have a black dress?
The voters will not repeal the Second Amendment. Get yourselves all hot and bothered. Thump your chests and holler from the rooftops but it won’t happen. Neither with the Supreme Court be able to nullify it.
NC sheriff R. Daryl Fisher is already cracking jokes about killing gun owners that won’t give up their guns.
I would donate money to a fund that provided money for legal and other expenses to families of persons that take the first actions for constitutinal defense.
I think we should start now.
200K for the spouse and 100K for each kid.
As long as the power is on and McDonalds is open, most likely scenario is the majority of law abiding gun owners line up to register or turn in their guns like in NY after the SAFE act.
Power grid down and no fast food? Then it gets interesting. People have to get hungry to get hostile.
“As long as the power is on and McDonalds is open, most likely scenario is the majority of law abiding gun owners line up to register or turn in their guns like in NY after the SAFE act.”
I live in NY. Nobody I know registered or turned in their guns after the SAFE act. In fact the number of AR15 based firearms in private hands in New York has easily doubled since the SAFE ACT was put into law.
The police in most area’s don’t agree with the law, don’t enforce it and everybody who buys guns knows it.
Which brings up another point that has been touched on: Most Police and Military are pro gun. Enforcement of any ban or confiscation will be very difficult.
Explain just *why* anyone would comply with such laws, which are clearly completely unenforceable. I suspect that in states which require universal registration, a tiny minority have complied, and why would anyone expect different? The laws are silly and unconstitutional and unenforceable, WHY COMPLY?
Alright boys, stop all this crazy talk and let me tell you how thing is going to go down. You got your East Coast, West Coast, and Down there is Mexico. The first wave of the attack will come in disguised as commercial charter flights same way they did back in Afghanistan back in ’80. Only these will be crack airborne outfits. They’ll take the passes over the rockies and coordinate select nuke strikes on our silos in the Dakotas along with key points of communication. Omaha, Washington, Kansas City, all gone.
Infiltrators have been coming up from Mexico. Cubans Mostly. They’ve managed to infiltrate SAC bases in the midwest and several down in Texas. They’ll wreak a helluva lot of havoc, I’m here to tell ya. They’ll open the door and the whole Cuban and Nicaraguan Army will roll right up through the great plains.
The Russians will reinforce with 60 divisions. Send three whole army groups across the bearing strait into Alaska, Cut the Pipeline, come across Canada and link up with them right in the middle. The Europeans will decide to sit this one out, all except England but they won’t last very long.
Good grief. I suppose these nukes will come from the same place the airliners came from, which were converted to smoking slag heaps several days earlier? Not even good fiction.
An invasion by an external power would be met with military force and several million veterans who will not stand by and do nothing.
Just a quick Constitutional note here. Our right to keep and bear arms exists with or without the 2nd Amendment, remember those inalienable rights? As most of you know (or should) “The Second Amendment confers no positive right. It recognizes a pre-existing right. It is an additional limitation on Federal power to infringe upon gun rights, besides the fact that no authority is granted to the federal government in its limited, enumerated powers to infringe upon them in the first place.”
A bunch of Farmers did not stand a chance against the powerful British military in the 1700’s. Or did they? It would be much different as I do not believe that the military would turn on the populace so easily. Nor would the police. The few that would may be in big trouble. The folks screaming for disarmament are unarmed and in no position to back up their bark. I will get very ugly and very long lasting. Unless the SCOTUS steps in and does their job in defending the constituion, I am afraid it is becoming inevitable. And that is sad and scary.
No doubt about it!
No. The confiscations will though. If you mess with me and mine, I will burn your kingdom down.
MAKE OF LIBERAL POLITICAL DONATION = LEAD CURRENCY FIRST FOLLOWED BY COLD STEEL
To repeal the second the Gov. Must repeal the fourth, the fifth and finally the first.
The second may not cause a war but repeal of the others damn sure would provoke something.
Basically the entire bill of Rights would be suspended in an emergency declared martial law, now that would get something started. House to house search and seizure, no right to remain silent, warrantless searches. That would get folks real mad!
I’ve said it multiple places , multiple times .
Get to know your local LEO’s , sheriffs and deputies and State police agents , your fellow citizens in the Guard , and serving and non serving / retired military . Talk about current events / feel them out / drop the hints and be respectful . Get involved with your state politicians and city officials and get a read on their feelings about these issues , if and this is a big IF , you can pull it off without sounding like a crazy conspiracy nut .
Should anything ever start to look real dicey we may have to form committees of safety and committees of correspondence again , below / outside the cloud and we will need as many of these people as we can summon to organize a new lot of ‘ Over the Mountain ‘ men .
If a repeal of the 2nd amendment is ever really attempted, Logistics needs to be shut down. Just look at any major highway on a Friday afternoon. How difficult would it be to park some bulldozers on a bridge. Set the throttle on a bulldozer and let it drive through an electrical substation. Large cities would be starving in 72 hours. No electricity means no gas pumps working. Highways clogged with disabled vehicles. Within a week people will be eating their neighbors dog. Police will be too busy to worry about taking guns away. If this happens, I would not want to live in any large metro area.
I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this scenario. I don’t have time to read all through the list. The Feds and States won’t come to your house to confiscate your guns. They won’t call on the military to do it. They’ll just wait until they pull you over for speeding, see in their DB (yes, they know!!!) that you’ve purchased guns, jail you and THEN go to your house. Or maybe they’ll wait until you’re out shopping and arrest you on a “suspected gun owner” charge and then go to your house. Or, when you die it will be the probate courts job to make sure your guns are not passed down to your family. And they’ll know about any guns purchased with credit cards since we got computer approval of credit cards. Wash, rinse, repeat with 100 scenarios. Yes, it will take them forever and day, but the Monster (bureaucracy) is patient. It will just take it’s time.
Of course there are ways around all the above scenarios. But after the first few months of people being thrown in jail you’ll see a LOT of people voluntarily handing in their guns.
If there’s going to be a resistance once the 2nd Amendment is on a path to repeal, it had better get out of the gate quickly.
Not necessarily – you might see instead, that previously law abiding drivers will suddenly start shooting cops when they get pulled (rather than allowing themselves to go to prison).
I think that is a very likely scenario. If otherwise law abiding people are put on the spot, they might just as well figure “in for a penny, in for a pound.”
much like i have figured here in australia for a long time
Just ask the Brit’s, when they tried it with us the first time…