Weapons Cache rifles guns arsenal
(Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department via AP)

Another problem for any gun control measure is that it is simply unclear how many guns are out there. A mandatory buy-back, such as the ones that Australia instituted, has been suggested, but it likely wouldn’t successfully disarm the nation.

Australian authorities had to deal with less than five million guns. In the first year of the program, Australia purchased about 650,000 firearms in the buy-back or about twenty percent of the county’s privately owned guns. The United States has close to 400 million guns, potentially more. Thousands of now “illegal” guns have been handed in “Down Under” in subsequent amnesty programs in the years since the initial buy-back – a fact that is rarely highlighted as it shows how far from a success the initial buy-back program actually had been.

Given these facts, it is easy to see that many Americans would likely risk breaking the law than potentially be outgunned by criminals who won’t hand in their guns. But making criminals out of otherwise law-abiding citizens could just be part of the liberal plan. Take away their guns, make them felons and take away their right to vote. It almost sounds too ominous to be true.

Fortunately, the gun owners may have numbers on their side. Not just in the number of guns in their possession but the fact that the Constitution ensures they have the senators to keep such legislation from reaching the president’s desk.

— Peter Suciu in Why Gun Control Would Fail: U.S. Gun Owners Have Nearly 400,000,000 Guns

143 COMMENTS

  1. I’m not afraid of Criminals – the are nothing more than fertilizer to me and they have very little to do with why I own firearms. I loathe the day that police or Marines are activated to revoke the constitution. That’s when it could get very, very sad.

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      • I think they’re the worst kind of criminal. Bully cops have to go. Laws need to change too.
        If a car is driving around with expired plates, mail the owner a ticket. If they commit a minor offense, write a ticket.
        We’re causing ourselves too much trouble.

        • He got a court summons in the mail more or less, Registration renewal.
          Another civilian that given the choice refused to obey the law.

    • They won’t attempt door-to-door confiscation because they don’t need to. Instead they will lock you bank account via federal legislation. You can’t withdraw money or use a linked credit or debit card until you give up all your guns, and they have an itemized list.

  2. What is scary is when you rights depend on politicians who, for the most part, would sell their own mothers for the right price. Then we have the gutless supreme court judges that ran and are hiding under their beds, refusing to rule on second amendment infringement cases. That’s whats scary.

      • Nobody believes your Trump
        “Ed Schrade know what it is to be a yuge gutless coward, bigley , believe me!”
        .

      • “……and Ed Schrade know what it is to be a gutless coward,”

        So says the gutless coward that changes names every few days.

        So full of anger and hate, is little peegeeTwo!

        So much fun to mock and ridicule!

        You’ve been marginalized to the point of pathetic mewlings!

        HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!!! 😉

    • Maybe the conservative judges aren’t “gutless.” I think they did not take 2A cases because they knew they could not get 5 votes (I.e. they knew Roberts would vote with the libtard justices on 2A issues.).

      • Nobody really knows, but TTAG lawyer LKB thinks that they may be waiting to take the right case that inflicts the most damage on them.

        I dunno. Got few coming up in the next few months they may or may not take a swing at, we’ll just have to see how the drama plays out.

        The real question is, when are we gonna see another article from TTAG legend Joe Grine? 😉

      • If these Marxist Democrats get away with packing the Supreme Court with liberal judges who think that our Constitution is outdated and must be ignored to solve problems such as gun violence, you can kiss the 2nd Amendment goodbye. These Marxist Democrats know that everything that they want to do to this country is unconstitutional. They know that they can get around that problem by making our Supreme Court meaningless.

    • many a politician’s mother sold herself. How do you think their offspring will turn out? (by putting out). Our “rights’ did not come from the Den of Corruption, nor can they take them away, without our permission. I hope sleepy Joe calls the U.N. to pick up the weapons. I wouldn’t think twice about taking a blue beret for my trophy wall. BAM!

  3. Last I read , that number is up to around 450,000,000, with ammo estimates in the 500,000,000,000+ range.
    This will not end well for anyone, especially the few that would really try confiscation.

    You would need millions of people to grab all those guns and there are not enough people who would actually be willing to die to take them.

    It will soon be time to enact our own Kristallnacht against the confiscation machine of the filthy, lying, thieving and cowardly liberal anti-Bill Of Rights psychopaths running our beloved country into the ground….

    • It’s no longer the number of guns that matter. It’s the amount of ammo one has. You’ve got enough guns, horde ammo. Been there, doin’ that. Leave the enemy’s lifeless body with his disabled gun. But, take every round of his ammo.

    • Patton had a pretty astute perspective…..“Now, I want you to remember that no son of a bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb son of a bitch die for his country.” Gen. George Patton, circa 1943-1944.

      • Yeah, that’s not what we do. Kristallnacht was state-sponsored terror, and that’s where our enemies are headed. Think 1776 instead.

    • “You would need millions of people to grab all those guns and there are not enough people who would actually be willing to die to take them.”

      Again you are underrating them. There’s no need to go that route. They will just seize your bank account(s) and then your cards won’t work and you will have no access to your money until you deliver the items on their itemized list.

      That’s obviously not all the guns in the country, but it’s plenty to turn our advantage into a disadvantage.

    • Amerika’s Kristallnacht (in the oligarchy) happened on Nov. 22 1963, April 19 1993, April 19 1995, Sept. 11 2001 and in 2008 (bankruptcy). The republic was already destroyed in 1865.

  4. ‘But making criminals out of otherwise law-abiding citizens could just be part of the liberal plan.’

    Yuh think?!?

      • As much as I can’t stand the general anti-cop sentiments of the general populace these days, I absolutely agree with you on this. There’s plenty of felonies that should be misdemeanors, and plenty of misdemeanors that should be fineable infractions. Cut down on the laws and hard enforcement of all but violent and malicious crimes that involve immediate harm to people and property and the odds of bad police encounters go down simply by the power of statistics. As the number of police encounters overall go down, the bad ones will diminish greatly

        • I personally am of the opinion that we probably have 2 or 3 times as many LEOs as is necessary. Considering how many LEO hours are spend pursuing minor traffic violations… I mean, how often do you see someone on the street doing something so reckless or stupid that you think to yourself, ‘I sure wish someone with a gun will force him over and take his money’?

  5. The gun grabbers like to throw the word “buyback” around but are notoriously light on details and specifics. Let’s assume that the “buyback” would be limited to “assault weapons” (excuse me while I gag), which are estimated to number around 15 to 20 million. Now let’s try to figure what all those rifles are worth, which is tough, but lets say $1500 each. Don’t forget that if you want to buy my rifle, you’re going to also have to buy its accessories, magazines, and whatever add-ons I’ve bought for it – because without the rifle all that stuff is useless to me. 20 million rifles at $1500 each comes to 30 BILLION dollars. Is President Bidenharris going to enact Stimulus III to pay for them?

    My guess is no, they’ll offer you a $200 or $300 gift card and expect you to salute smartly and take the hosing “for the sake of the children!”. This is where the wheels fall off. Because, before I accept their token payment, I WILL find a buyer – somebody, somewhere – that will pay much more than that. And there’s a very high probability that this buyer will be someone who has a background such that Sleepy Joe would be much more comfortable had I kept my rifle.

    • Seems to me that you are unaware that 30 BILLION would be a rounding error in the MULTI-TRILLION dollar “Green/Infrastruture/BuildBack” bills being shoved by Biden and the Left.

      If you told most Leftists that it would take 30B$ to get rid of “assault weapons” all they would say is “How soon can we start?”

        • Yeah I’m surprised somebody hasn’t come up with the idea of offering 10K$ per assault rifle because that would add up to just a paltry 200B$ of phoney money.

          Wonder what would be the turn in rate at 10K$ a rifle?

        • Wonder what would be the turn in rate at 10K$ a rifle?

          I can build one for less than $300 (not one that I would recommend using) that can PASS as functional… So, build ten “GHOST” guns in a couple of days for three/four grand @ ten grand each? No brainer, 96/97 thousand bucks for two days work? Damn, sounds like the “good old days” in Miami….

        • only a fool would consider his hard earned money, that was taken from him by an abusive gov’t. as phoney money. Amerika is drowning in fools….thousands are procreating everyday

    • 20 million rifles at $1500 each comes to 30 BILLION dollars. Is President Bidenharris going to enact Stimulus III to pay for them?

      No, they’ll just add it to the ridiculous list of “infrastructure” items already in the current bill, call it amendment 142…

      • Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the feds said they were not going to confiscate them only make people who owned semi-auto’s register them under the same law that governs machine guns. But since they do not have enough votes in the Senate they really cannot do that either.

        • semi-auto’s register them under the same law that governs machine guns.

          Step one, Registration (gotta know where they are)
          Step two, Confiscation (middle of the night raids on REGISTERED gun owners)

    • Forget the cost of the gun itself. What about all the stuff I added to it. And then removed. And is now in a box in my basement. Along with the ammo. And the time and money and effort spent on training. Competition. Storage. Cleaning. Maintenance. Accessories. Buying this specific house because of it’s walk-in safe.

      Unless someone will be making me a teenager in the 1980s again (because I don’t want to be one today, for certain) or paying me the doctors salary I could have had if I had studied harder rather than go shoot cans, I don’t see how I can possibly be compensated to my satisfaction to the point that I would, y’know, actually cooperate.

      • BuybackMyTascos……Uh, four ponderings for you. 1) What gives you any hope/expectations that the Libtards/Socialists give a flying F whether the “buy back” will meet your expectations/satisfaction???? 2)You do realize the government has no money itself, right?? The alleged “buy back” is really you paying yourself to disarm yourself. Like taking money from your wallet with your left hand, handing it over to your right hand in return for your ability to defend yourself, your loved ones, and your American lifestyle, principles, rights, freedoms, and liberties. 3) Is there really any price that you would find acceptable to sell your birthright to defend yourself, et el as in three above? You would actually sell out yourself????
        4) You do realize rule of thumb suggests one should spend at least as much on their optics as on their rifle?? If Tascos really define your optic system, PAY the Libtards to take your optics, and go sit with the Club Swingers ’cause you ain’t gonna be much help anyway. Just a really, really old geezer’s ponderings. 🙂 🙂 🙂

        • young people (punks) have NO IDEA what Amerika was like before it became an oligarchy (JFK assassinated by the deep state). This $hit4ole is all they know….full of cowards, sissies & perverts

      • I buy a gun with my take home pay (after taxes). They buy it back with my tax money. I have paid twice for a weapon that I no longer own? socialist math….learn to hate it and kill it, whenever possible

  6. The 2A means what it says. Even the anti-gun leadership understands that.
    The problem in the USA- just my opinion- is that capitalism is dead and has been replaced by oligarchy. So not surprising so many are considering socialism.
    Forgive the digression but the upshot of this is that the farther down the economic ladder you go the worse people are being cheated, and the bottom 80 or 90 percent are really, really pissed. Of course there is violence.
    The economic bottom dwellers of both the left and right need to realize that the peasants need to quit fighting each other and unite. It’s not complicated.

    • We have capitalism by decree. Our brand of capitalism is top-down, the huge corporations getting all the breaks. The reason they are getting all the breaks is that they control most of the politicians, Dems and Reps.
      They have all but erased Trump because he was the 21st century’s Teddy Roosevelt. He saw that the huge multinational corporations(Robber Barons) were trying to control the American public and take all the resources for their purposes.
      They have to break our middle class first, they are doing a great job of that.

      • Back when we had real capitalism the middle class (and the middle class was a real thing) controlled 50% of American wealth!
        The big problem today- IMO- is that the right can’t accept that capitalism has to be regulated, and the left won’t accept that reasonably regulated capitalism is the best economic system on earth.
        Of course times change and I think that the Chinese are proving that some kind of hybrid system involving government is a plus when done right.
        But, yeah, we need to get money out of politics. I don’t believe the conspiracy theories; home grown billionaires have bought the government, legally. It’s all above board. Not at all secret.

        • OMG a ChiCom troll on TTAG!!!

          Welcome comrade but NO ONE, and I do mean NO ONE thinks China has proved anything other than the ability to steal technology from the west and kill a stunning amount of the people that live within their borders.

          Seriously go away…

        • You were kinda onto something until you used China as an example. Their system is an oligarchy 10x the magnitude of ours by any reasonable standard. But yes, capitalism does need some minimal regulations to keep it from becoming some sort of dystopian ANCAP oligarchy, but generally MUCH MUCH less than modern Dems suggest.

          This concept of limited control of the markets used to be commonly accepted even by the most laissez faire libertarian types. Hayek himself stated that he was not a laissez faire purist in Road to Serfdom, and that some small regulation of markets was only to be expected in order to keep it competitive.

        • Many other countries use a form of regulated capitalism. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan (just to irk the Chinese), Singapore, most of Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and many more.

        • “Some kind of hybrid system involving government” — the word you were looking for is fascism.

          China’s rulers saw that there’s no money in communism, so over the past few decades they pivoted to socialism’s other totalitarian flavor. They’ve got the fascist machinery working far, far better than Hitler and Mussolini ever did.

          The American left wing is the direct descendant of the progressive movement, which was and still is fascist-minded. Progressives in the 1930s thought the fascists had a great thing going; FDR was *thisclose* to being a literal fascist himself. The people who call themselves “liberals” today pine for those good old fascist days of yore.

          So they cast freedom as the villain and play footsie with China, because they envy the level of control the Chinese government exercises over all of its subjects.

      • “Trump because he was the 21st century’s Teddy Roosevelt. He saw that the huge multinational corporations(Robber Barons) were trying to control the American public and take all the resources for their purposes.“

        Thank you for providing a bit of comedic relief this morning!

      • “trying to control?” Amerika has been a slavery empire since before 1865. Lincoln freed no one, rather enslaved ALL to the Den of Corruption. wise up

  7. Gun buyback? Why. Simply make any possession, or use of a firearm, for any purpose, a chargeable offense, with no mitigating circumstances to prevent being charged, or available as an “affirmative defense”. Add to that a mandatory “life without parole” sentence for the offense. The only way around that would be rampant jury nullification.

    Things could become quite entertaining in the coming years.

    • Sam I Am….don’t ignore the financial “imprisonment” of gun owners. In our electronic financial world, a key stroke can render one’s financial world dead……checking/savings accounts, credit cards, investment accounts, paychecks, social security, et el…..even utilities…phone, water, electricity, gas, internet. Financial death by keystroke……no field enforcers required. How long can one maintain a fight against tyranny with the change in their pocket, the morsels in their fridge?? There are preppers out there, but the masses aren’t financially prepared with cash or barter inventories. The preppers will be overwhelmed protecting their stores from unprepared masses. The government will merely watch from afar until it’s pretty much over, then sweep in for the clean up and mass burials.

    • Schofield……NO….NO….A THOUSAND TIMES NO!!! You obviously do not understand the Bill of Rights, especially the Second Amendment. The BoR does not endow rights to citizens. It constrains the Government…….supposedly. The only way to get rid of guns is to get rid of citizens’ will to retain guns. The 2A is merely words on a piece of paper, telling politicians “……shall not be infringed.” They have long ago…since at least 1934…..ignored those sacred words, trampling upon our inalienable, God-given Right. And, Patriots have acquiesced. Our Founding Fathers are crying from their graves….SHAME….SHAME!!! Our Founding Fathers would already have been finished shooting a second time.

      • Don’t necessarily disagree, but gun owners are already solidly in the minority and slipping fast.
        The politics of it say that eventually the 2A will be repealed- unless gun sports get more popular very quickly.
        Yes, I know that the 2A isn’t about hunting. Tell that to the anti gunners in 30 years. GL.

        • Lenin…not John…..said, “Give me the children, and I will transform the country.” DONE!!!! Just waiting for those old pesky vets and Patriots to die off……or, being to sluggish, be exterminated

    • You realize to get rid of of an amendment requires 75% of the states to vote to get rid of it.
      Any amendment in The Bill of Rights may be irremovable, it’s a subject that constitutional scholars argue about. The “Bill of Rights” are not “ordinary” amendments. They are inalienable RIGHTS that list specific prohibitions on governmental power or they are just the first ten amendments of the constitution.
      These are the two arguments about The Bill of Rights.

      Regardless of that legal argument, the house can vote to remove the 2A and then the senate. They need a 2/3rds or super-majority in both. Then you need 75% of the states to ratify it or at least 38 states.
      I don’t see that happening in 50 years regardless of what Biden, Harris or anybody else wants.
      I think that at least 20 states say NO, the 2A stays. I don’t see 8 flipping right now or the near future.
      In 50 years the changing demographics of the USA “may” allow that to happen but we will see a civil war
      before that happens plus I will be dead or in my 90’s so my major concern will be being able to pee.

      • “I don’t see that happening in 50 years regardless of what Biden, Harris or anybody else wants.”

        Maybe, maybe not. Pots of Zuckerburger’s cash spread around half a dozen county election boards and a few other places resulted in the materialization of sufficient votes to flip the presidential election. It was an extremely bold play, and it worked.

        https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/emails-show-multiple-left-leaning-groups-managing-2020-election-key-biden

        https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/zuckerbergs-group-gave-whopping-74-million-detroit-expand-voting-city-key

        https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/watch-john-solomons-election-integrity-special-making-voting-easier

        If they can do it once…

        • We all know that the POTUS election was rigged. There were videotapes of polling places where boxes of ballots were pulled from under tables after hours. No court would hear the cases but this would be something a bit different. With the election there were a lot of people who didn’t like Trump. That included people in the GOP. That’s actually how he got elected in the first place, more people hated HRC then Trump.

          This would be a vote on abolishing an amendment, one actually in The Bill of Rights. It would be much harder to pull off then fixing a POTUS election. The amount of money required would be MUCH more. More then Bloomberg, Soros, and the new money of the tech idiots could come up with.

          I know of people who lean pretty far left who would never abolish the second amendment. They would vote no changing of The Bill of Rights. The shortage of guns and ammo shows how many people are pro gun. Many people are scared of criminals and cops. They see the country changing and have decided to arm themselves.

          While I wouldn’t be surprised by anything this administration does, first Biden would have to pack the court. With his crazy spending, how long do you think our economy will survive? How much time do you think he has left, he is senile. Harris quite incapable of running the country and our country will be in shreds if that happens. Biden has 50 years of doing nothing under his belt. Harris does not. Lets see if they try and pack the court first, that would be a precursor.

          Anything could happen but I seriously doubt it on this one…

        • Oh yeah, John Solomons just thenews.com is a veritable font of accurate journalism, ha ha!

          Actually just a shill for the crypto-industrialists robber baron fascist overlords, but you probably already know that.

          Here’s a bit of evidence that shows his willingness to collude and twist the truth to serve his political masters:

          “Solomon’s stories had significant flaws.[24][21] Not only had the State Department dismissed the allegations presented by Solomon as “an outright fabrication”, but the Ukrainian prosecutor who Solomon claimed made the allegations to him is not supporting Solomon’s claim.[24][21] Foreign Policy noted that anti-corruption activists in Ukraine had characterized the source behind Solomon’s claims as an unreliable narrator who had hindered anti-corruption efforts in Ukraine.[31] Solomon pushed allegations that Biden wanted to remove a Ukrainian prosecutor in order to prevent an investigation of Burisma, a Ukrainian company that his son, Hunter Biden, served on; however, Western governments and anti-corruption activist wanted the prosecutor removed because he was reluctant to pursue corruption investigations.[21] By September 2019, Solomon said he still stood 100% by his stories.[24] There is no evidence of wrong-doing by Joe Biden and Hunter Biden, and no evidence that Hunter Biden was ever under investigation by Ukrainian authorities.[32] WNYC characterized Solomon’s Ukraine stories as laundering of foreign propaganda.[33]

          Prior to the publication of a story where Solomon alleged that the Obama administration had pressured the Ukrainian government to stop investigating a group funded by George Soros, Solomon sent the full text of his report to Ukrainian-American businessman Lev Parnas and the two pro-Trump lawyers and conspiracy theorists Joseph diGenova and Victoria Toensing.[34] Solomon said he did so for fact-checking, but Parnas, DiGenova and Toensing were not mentioned in the text, nor did Solomon send individual items of the draft for vetting (but rather the whole draft).“

        • Links or it didn’t happen, Miner. You get no credit for cut-and-pasting disembodied words from God knows where.

        • Sorry Ing,

          I’m a moron that likes to;

          Cut, cut. cut and paste,

          Cut and paste,

          Cut and paste!

          HA HA!

  8. “Take away their guns, make them felons and take away their right to vote. ”

    When it comes time for citizens’ guns to be taken away, the only vote that will matter is a lead vote. Wait, as of last November, that is actually the case alteady. Time for Patriots to start voting for real.

    • Posts like this are exactly why many reasonable people are reconsidering private firearms ownership.

      Of course there’s no credible evidence that any election fraud occurred to compromise the election but far too many people who claim to be good gun toting Patriots are all too willing to advocate killing their political opponents.

      Continue to post public opinions about rounding up Democrats and others you disagree with and executing them out of hand will do nothing but solidify reasonable citizens’ opposition to private firearms ownership.

      You tacticool gun nuts are blowing it, why can’t you shut the fuck up and stop parading around on the public streets like a guns and ammo drag show.

      • why can’t you shut the fuck up and stop parading around on the public streets

        YEAH!!! All you “TACTICOOL” gun nuts get the hell off the street. what ARE you people thinking? Don’t you know you are taking up space needed by “Baby Loves Money” and “Fascists’ Against Fascism?” to LOOT, RIOT, DESTROY PROPERTY, HARASS and ASSAULT CIVILIANS and SET FIRE to GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS (aka: “Peacefully” demonstrating) and all the other NORMAL shit that the average American does on a daily basis… What the FUCK are you people thinking?…

      • Miner49er,

        “Of course there’s no credible evidence that any election fraud occurred to compromise the election …”

        Really?

        Read the lawsuit which the Texas State Attorney General filed with the United States Supreme Court in December, 2020. The Texas Attorney General listed simple facts that are easily verifiable (as a matter of public record) which absolutely demonstrate that at least five states violated the plain letter of their state laws and constitutions with respect to election rules, procedures, and laws.

        Look at the news story about Antrim County, Michigan, where the county government employee who is responsible for elections had to issue a “correction” to the vote tally in the 2020 General Election. For the last several years/decades, that county has ALWAYS voted for the Republican Presidential candidate. Then that county mysteriously voted for the Democrat Presidential candidate in 2020. This was such a ludicrous outlier that people immediately contested that result and the Antrim County election official formally announced that there had been an “error” (several thousand votes initially allocated to Biden were re-allocated to Trump) in her county’s vote tally and Antrim County really did vote for the Republican candidate.

        Then there are the massive statistical “anomalies”. For example more people voted for Trump than any previous incumbent President and yet Biden somehow got yet more votes? Oh, and Biden somehow got more votes that Obama or Hillary? Then we have specific vote counts in precincts where Biden received several hundreds/thousands of consecutive votes without any votes for Trump in between.

        And then we have examples such as a friend of mine who received several applications for mail-in ballots without any identity verification. (He received applications for several previous residents at his address going back something like 20 years.) Had he been inclined to do so, it would have been a simple matter for him to fraudulently submit all those applications and then fraudulently vote via mail-in ballots in other people’s names. And there are dozens/hundreds of examples of voters who attempted to vote (with identity verification) only to find out that their local voting precinct initially denied their request to vote since someone had already fraudulently submitted a vote in their name.

        There is plenty more credible and verifiable evidence out there. Go review it.

        • Actually, I’ve read through many of those so-called expert reports and like most courts, found them to not be credible.

          For instance, the Antrim County BS was a report by an individual that was later shown to have zero credibility or experience with electronic voting investigations.

          And regarding the Texas lawsuit, more BS and that’s why the Republican-majority supreme court dismissed it.

          Speaking of Texas, the lieutenant governor Dan Patrick offered $1 million for proof of voting fraud, it has never been collected. If there’s so much voting fraud, how is it possible that this bounty has never been paid?

          “Had he been inclined to do so, it would have been a simple matter for him to fraudulently submit all those applications and then fraudulently vote via mail-in ballots in other people’s names.”

          Sorry, that won’t work either, those votes are caught as fraudulent in the canvassing process.

          Just look at Colorado, they’ve had very little problem with mail in voting, just like the many other states that use mail in voting as their primary method.

          As many local, state, federal district court, federal appeals court and United States Supreme Court justices have said, rumor, innuendo and speculation do not provide credible evidence to disenfranchise thousands, even millions of voters.

          And then to claim “muh ‘lection was stolen!” and use this as justification to advocate for the killing of your political opponents is beyond the pale, and will lead reasonable citizens to reconsider private firearms ownership.

        • “In the hand-tallied total, when compared with the machine-tabulated and certified results the net difference was only 12 votes out of 15,718 total votes.

          Previously Certified Results
          Trump: 9,748
          Biden: 5,960

          Hand-Tallied Audit Results (preliminary)
          Trump: 9,759
          Biden: 5,959

          The slight differences in counts were in line with what is typically seen in hand recounts, as human counters may not award a vote to a pen mark on a ballot oval, where the machine counted it as a vote, or vice-versa. Human counters might also identify invalid write-in votes that need to be awarded to a different candidate. But the fact that the totals are so close confirms that the reporting error prior to certification was not related to tabulation, as has been falsely claimed without evidence.

          The audit of the Antrim County presidential votes was a zero-limit risk-limiting audit, meaning it confirmed to absolute certainty that the outcome of the presidential election in Antrim County was correct by tallying every vote cast for president. In January, the Bureau of Elections and local and county clerks will complete a statewide risk-limiting audit of the Presidential Election in which a random sample of ballots will be drawn statewide. It is expected to affirm that ballot-counting machines were accurate across the state, as was demonstrated by a pilot statewide risk-limiting audit following Michigan’s March 10 Presidential Primary Election.”

          https://www.michigan.gov/som/0,4669,7-192-47796-547883–,00.html

        • unlike, You’re being mislead by bad actors who have neither the knowledge, expertise or integrity to comment meaningfully upon the election results.

          “There are several legal concerns with the report and testimony submitted in Bailey v Antrim County, including the portions provided by Russell Ramsland, one of the “expert” witnesses in the case.

          A Detroit Free Press story from Nov. 21 quotes Rudy Giuliani as saying Michigan has “over-votes in numerous precincts of 150%, 200% and 300%.” Giuliani’s source was an affidavit from Ramsland, who is a former Republican congressional candidate. All 19 of the precincts cited in his affidavit are in Minnesota, not Michigan. Ramsland has also inaccurately stated the voter turnout rate in Detroit, saying it was nearly three times higher than it actually was.

          The qualifications of those who authored the report are suspect, with no evidence or credentials provided to back up their “expertise.” Authors in the report also make unverified and unsupported claims that “fraud,” “intentional errors” and “bad faith” decisions made by election officials led them to their conclusions in the report. Moreover, many of their assertions are unsupported by evidence, with some even constituting hearsay and clearly show that the authors lack first-hand knowledge of events.

          Michigan Rule of Evidence 702 states that if the court determines that scientific, technical, or other specialized knowledge will assist the trier of fact to understand the evidence or to determine a fact in issue, a witness qualified as an expert by knowledge, skill, experience, training, or education may testify thereto in the form of an opinion or otherwise if (1) the testimony is based on sufficient facts or data, (2) the testimony is the product of reliable principles and methods, and (3) the witness has applied the principles and methods reliably to the facts of the case. That has not happened in this case yet.”

          https://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,4534,7-359-92297_47203-547422–,00.html

        • And this just in:

          “Washington (CNN)Five months after the presidential election, the Supreme Court said on Monday that it won’t take up a case from several Republicans challenging changes to election rules in the battleground state of Pennsylvania.

          The unsigned ruling sends yet another message that the court’s majority has no interest in relitigating the last election.
          Before Monday, the justices had already declined several requests to dive into one of the most litigious elections in history, denying petitions from then-President Donald Trump and other Republicans seeking to overturn election result in multiple states President Joe Biden won.

          There were no noted dissents.“

        • Miner49er,

          What you call the Antrim County “BS” is simple public record, ultimately published in various news sources. The fact is simple: Antrim County initially provided official voting data to the Michigan Secretary of State which reported that Biden won their county and then later reported that there was an “error” in their vote tally and and provided a radically different vote tally with Trump winning that county.

          That has never happened before and such an egregious error is impossible for all intents and purposes unless someone intentionally tampered with the voting machines or the data reported to the Secretary of State.

          And the simple facts which the Texas State Attorney General listed in his lawsuit are, once again, public record visible at several news sources. In multiple states: Governors, Secretaries of State, Legislatures, Courts, and/or various additional government employees who manage/operate their elections publicly and openly celebrated violating their own states’ election laws and state constitutions. This is not hearsay or rumor. It is fact published in multiple news sources.

          The simple summary based on simple facts which are easily verifiable: the general election of 2020 is bogus and not trustworthy — especially with respect to the number of legitimate votes for President of the United States.

  9. Gun control fails because only the utopian believes in it. So they keep on trying. They believe there is no evil in the world. And evil will always find a way.

  10. “There are too many laws and too much heavy-handed enforcement.”

    Agree. Get rid of all laws, and you have no crime. No crime, no purpose for law enforcement. Solve two problems at once.

  11. 400 million?
    I realize we were a much smaller country when we started out, but even if you only count firearms the way ATF does(after 1898), I think you will find that there are many firearms that have been handed down over the years in families that have very few rounds fired through them.
    Many collectors run across these in estate sales, still in the box with period ammo alongside.
    These are the firearms the heirs did not want, I am sure there are many more(bought for defensive purpose – never/barely fired) in family hand me down collections. I have a few handguns manufactured pre WWII that operate flawlessly.
    I would put that number at 600-700 million.

  12. “Gun control fails because only the utopian believes in it.”

    The word utopia was coined from Ancient Greek by Sir Thomas More in 1516. “Utopia” comes from Greek: οὐ (“not”) and τόπος (“place”) which translates as “no-place…”
    (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopia)

    Which should mean Leftists/Dims are going nowhere.

    • Which is why leftists develop mental problems at such an alarming rate. See the Bill Whittle video linked above. The icing on the cake (from a conservative’s perspective) is that, a “utopia” of sorts can already generally be found in so-called red state rural and small town America. Remove the problems found in left-run big cities, and, well, there is hardly anything remaining to fight about. Leftists rail against things that are largely the products of their own policies, and try to pin it on me? Pffft, sorry, I am not buying it.

    • Should? Does. Absolutely does. They can’t win because their utopia is completely impossible.

      The catch is that their losing doesn’t mean we win. It’s still possible, even likely, that *everyone* loses, because the “progressive” left are doing a potentially irreparable amount of damage on their road to nowhere.

      • It is their goal to do “irreparable damage” to America, they want to destroy America and set up USSA, United Socialist States of America, where socialist actually means communist.

        • Socialism is to Communism, as Stage III is to Stage IV cancer. Socialism is the gateway lie to Communism.

          Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. – Barry Goldwater.

    • leftist and other lawless savages (barbarians) are headed for hell. “We” should make their appointment with the Almighty, right soon. DEO VINDICE

  13. “I would put that number at 600-700 million.”

    Counting an imaginary number of guns is pointless, but designed to make us feel good about “the coming revolution”. However, it is not the gun that matters, but the intent and courage of the owner.

    The mere number of alleged gun owners and guns has failed to rein-in the slide into irrelevancy of the US Constitution. The destroyers of the nation do not fear all those gun owners and guns, which means they do not fear an armed revolt of voters.

    The Second Amendment was to be living threat to tyranny. Now we are reduced to proclaiming it our authority to defend ourselves against criminals.

    • “The Second Amendment was to be living threat to tyranny. Now we are reduced to proclaiming it our authority to defend ourselves against criminals.”

      This is the best comment I have read in a long time.

      • I agree. That is the best paragraph in this thread.

        Problem I see is in the indoctrination of our children. Schools and media are soon feeding lies and twisted facts to rewrite history making boogie men of gun owners and anyone who doesn’t agree with the left’s evil desire to make America something it was never intended to be. As much as I love Donald Trump, he stirred the bees nest in such a way that the progressives are in hyper mode to force change in their favor. It’s not Trump’s fault, but more that his strength flipped the left out.

        Republicans have been silent for a long time. As long as I’ve watched politics, 35 years, the Republican party never stood for what they preached, other than Ted Cruz on one occasion. With the entrance of a strong personality, and someone who actually kept his promises, the Democrats, Liberals, Progressives, and nut case Socialist, all jumped into full sprint mode after Trump was elected.

        Now as they indoctrinate America’s children, and the media lie to the rest of the nation, they have the power to move the vote. With the fraud and corruption of Trump/Russia deception and the Nov election, we now know they will do anything to win. As they fight with more lies against Gov Kemp of GA for his effort to strengthen election integrity laws, which actually helps voters rights more than in many states like Delaware, again we see a leftist sponsored machine with power to persuade corporations and a misinformed public to their lies.

        Luckily, on a brighter note, Trump gave Republicans a voice and he taught the right how to fight back. We have politicians in Washington who have a great voice and will stand up for the 2A and our rights as gun owners. This is all thanks to Trump whether you like him or not. I don’t think the left will be able to take our rights away that easily.

        In time though, over a few decades, as we die off and the indoctrinated children take over and become the voters of the day, as well as the leaders and politicians, they may be able to continue telling the lies made up by the left to a point where we as nation change beyond anything that we’d ever imagine.

        Rome didn’t fall in a day, and it was said, rightly so, America will only be destroyed from the inside. Today, the Democrat party, Liberals, and Progressives are on a fast track to destroy America.

        If you aren’t teaching a child, whether it’s your kid, or another child someone how to shoot, how to think reasonably with controlled logic, conservative values, and to honor God, then you need to find a way to do that. Be it a neighbors child, your child or grandchildren, or someone in your extended family, find a child to mentor and teach what is Right, before you’re gone, and it’s too late.

        • “Now as they indoctrinate America’s children….” Lenin…not John…said, “Give me the children and I will transform the country.” Hence, the move to free indoctrination…er, education….for all.

          “Rome didn’t fall in a day, and it was said, rightly so, America will only be destroyed from the inside.” The following well describes the threat to America posed by the Socialists/Libtards/Elitists/One Worlders….aka Pigloosi, Slummer, Xiden, Laughing Hyenna KamelHo, et el…..
          “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”
          An excerpt from “A Pillar of Iron” by Taylor Caldwell depicting the spirit of ancient Rome in its last days of glory. The hero of the story, the man called “a pillar of iron” is Marcus Tullius Cicero, the lawyer-statesman who tried vainly to save the republic he loved from the forces of tyranny.

          The new agenda for humanity requires that no one will have the capacity to fight back. It has been said: “Our Task of creating a Socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed.” No other explanation is possible. Welcome to “common sense” gun control.
          History has repeatedly demonstrated that disarming good people in the name of making bad people harmless only eventually facilitates politicians shooting their own countrymen. History…learn from it or be doomed to relive it….or die by it.

  14. “Or, as our Founding Father chose, rampant politician/enforcer nullification.”

    No longer a serious consideration. Where is that bright line beyond which patriots will not retreat? The central committee has advanced so far beyond what the founders would have tolerated, that a messy overthrow of government is no longer credible.

    • “Everyone must determine for themselves what level of tyranny they are willing to tolerate.” Some old white guy. Sadly, Americans have become complacent.

      The Freedom Accountants advise the generational installment on Freedom is past due and payable………in arrears, usury interest accruing.

      Obummer said: “We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded. ” ( BLM/Antifa ).

      “All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party.”
      Mao Tse-tung

      • It’s why the left wants to defund and disband the police. To leftists the police are lacking in political awareness.

        • Southern Cross……. The feds have been wanting to federalize the local police for years, this would create an evil ” enforcer ” type of warfare on the populace. Just my opinion.

    • Hm. That may actually be a bad idea. For them anyway.

      Take everything away from a man and he’ll have nothing left to lose. That’s the primary reason why this hasn’t gotten ugly; they have something important to lose and its usually family or financial reasons.

  15. “This is the best comment I have read in a long time.”

    Thank you, but rest assured it was truly a “blind squirrel” moment.

  16. Firearms prohibitionism is not doomed. There is no time to be complacent. Our adversaries play the long game AND ram things through where they can. Keep up the pressure on R senators, Manchin, Tester, and Sinema. Do NOT let up!

    It’s always good to see more red states restore Constitutional carry, but unless we also see purple areas moving in the right direction and blue states being purpled, it’s still much more “big sort” than “Constitutional renaissance”.

  17. So many good milsurps and lever actions in that LA buyback picture it makes my stomach turn. I would have gladly bought those off any in attendance for double whatever LAPD was offering.

    • And not a single of those scary black military-style rifles with the 100-round clipazine and the barrel shroud “thingy that goes up.”

  18. “Take everything away from a man and he’ll have nothing left to lose.”

    Would like to agree, however…..

    Look at the billions in the world who live an existence where they have nothing left to lose. As it was said, they “live lives of quiet desperation.” They do not spontaneously rise up against oppression.

    • That’s because those people have nothing and never did have anything.

      If you unjustly take away what thousands-to-millions of capable men and women have worked to gain and protect — and society still has resources those capable people can take and use — then what happens?

  19. I would say that if Biden does not end the filibuster that there are not enough votes in Senate for drastic gun control laws. Providing of course that the mass killings do not get any worse than they already are. Just remember last year and all the Republican turncoats that passed state gun control laws because of public pressure and none has been rescinded by the courts.

  20. Wonder if the “mass killings” are “nudged” into place by the Deep State. Find a person on the edge, susceptible to being manipulated, apply a little handler influence, and at the appropriate time “nudge” him to act. Rinse, repeat for desired end…..in groupings for best affect. The end justifies the means.

  21. Interesting sermon quote today.
    Anyone who involuntarily submits to a “master” out of fear of that “master” taking depriving them of life is a “slave”

    Armed men are citizens.
    The disarmed are slaves.

    • fear is the passion of slaves. The gov’t. fears an armed populace, but a 2nd amendment is useless to a coward. Amerika is full of cowards

  22. “…and society still has resources those capable people can take and us.”

    “Potential” and “action” are distant cousins, mostly unacquainted with one another.

    Where/what is that bright line in the sand? If it is for everyone to decide for themselves, then people are waiting for an uncertain trumpet.

    Which just may be the reason we still have a single nation after 156 years.

  23. I saw today some variety of an unmarked law enforcement vehicle pass by on the street. It was some sort of Ford Explorer and had extensive customization, big bucks. It was serious. There was a man in uniform driving. I could see the badge on his shirt, could not what agency he worked for. When I was in the National Guard I sometime times worked with the DEA so I do have some limited experience working with Federal Law Enforcement, so I notice this stuff. Anyway it occurred to me today, that between all the Local, State and the untold numbers of Federal Law Enforcement we are living in a Police State. The money we spend to support these thousands of agencies is incredible. The wages paid and then the hundreds of billions, maybe trillions, of pension payments and obligations are staggering. And yet we can’t even secure our borders or prevent the rioters from burning down our cities. We aren’t getting our moneys worth and it certainly isn’t worth losing our freedom for.

  24. “Anyone who involuntarily submits to a “master” out of fear of that “master” taking depriving them of life is a “slave”

    But isn’t that the very foundation of Christianity, “Worship and serve me unconditionally as the one true God or I will cast you into a burning Hell for eternity!”

    • Nope. Again, as with anything that really matters, you have it exactly backwards. The essence of Christianity lies in choice and consequences. You can choose whether or not to follow the righteous path — and you will receive either grace or punishment in accordance with your moral choices.

      • “and you will receive either grace or punishment in accordance with your moral choices“

        So if I spend my entire life making good moral choices, doing good works and deeds, while continuing to honor and worship the great god Ra, giver of Life, I will receive grace?

    • the gov’t. said GOD was not essential. Real Christians did not believe man. GOD is the only thing that is essential. Everything else was created by Him. Amerika is doomed for their rejection of GOD. Foolish man…..hell is real, look around

      • “Amerika is doomed for their rejection of GOD“

        The founding fathers rejected God when they were writing the Constitution, that’s why the Constitution has no mention of God, Jesus, Jehovah, Odin, Shiva, Allah, Zeus,Ra, etc.

        The Constitution even states that there shall be no religious test for any office of public trust.

        That’s why Thomas Jefferson said “I thank Providence that we have erected a wall of separation between church and state”

        Hallelujah!

    • God grants to Man free will of choice. Bible says “the wages of sin is death.” There is no forced…as in slavery, no choice…..service, devotion to God. But, there is a penalty for dying with sin in one’s being. God sent his son Jesus to die for our sins, such that through belief and positive action one may be saved eternally. Many do not believe this is real. I choose to believe and experience the joy and salvation thereof. To me it is real, a personal experience. One cannot understand fully until one experiences for one’s self. I say yes; you may say no…..free will. Then, two sides of one coin, one of us is probably wrong. I’d sure rather be wrong on my side of the issue than the other choice. Should I be wrong, still I have had comfort, confidence, and prpbably lived better, happier life because of my belief and associated way of life. I see that as a win-win, no down side. Don’t fully understan, comprehend the details of this life and the hereafter. That’s why it’s called “Belief.” In the interim in this life until we know for sure, I receive comfort and confidence in my decision. To each his own. One makes their choice and enjoys the consequences thereof. Please, join me in the Belief. It is easy. Confess your imprefection and own your sins, believe, ask for forgiveness. He will forgive and provide salvation.

  25. The far-left Marxist Democrats have declared war on us and we are all too self-centered to realize this. They are attacking our history, our social norms, our language, our form of government, our conservative views and so much more that I can’t even list them all. Anyone who disagrees with them is branded a racist. We are losing this war because we don’t have mass media or an entertainment industry that will support anything that we say. The general public is getting only one side of the story and we wonder why all of our constitutional rights are in jeopardy?

    • The far-left Marxist Democrats have declared war on us and we are all too self-centered to realize this.

      You probably want to narrow your inclusion to more or less yourself and individuals with with whom you are PERSONALLY familiar… (“We ALL are too self centered?”) is a pretty broad brush and I and most of the folks I know do not run in that lane… In other words, I’m pretty much aware that a state of war exists on the gun owning community and am an active participant in a number of efforts both to thwart their current assaults AND prepare for physical confrontation should it materialize in my neck of the woods… Just sayin’

      • MADDMAXX, you just proved my point. You admit that you are focused on guns. You must realize that there is much more involved here. They want us divided up into groups so we do not unite as one. One group is only worried about guns, another group is worried about abortion and etc. etc. Getting the picture? We must oppose them on every front. Wars aren’t won in just one battle.

        • “Abortion?”… Dude this is a gun blog, my response on this site is about guns, 2A and 1A… You want a response to the abortion issue? Ask someone on a fucking abortion site… Worried about the war on Christians, Drugs, Sugar, Meat, Fossil fuels, loud motorcycles? You can’t fight them all… I have a finite amount of money, time and energy which I choose to invest in what I consider to be the MOST important battle which, IMO is the one that MUST survive for all the other battles to even be addressed… If we lose the war on guns everything else is moot… So, just because I neglected to respond to you with your PREFERRED answer does not mean that I am NOT aware of all the directions that we are being attacked from, get over yourself you are NOT the only AWARE person on the planet… Maybe you should take time to actually read the posts on here, it might surprise you to find that other than a handful of trolls most people here ARE aware and concerned and many ARE working in their own way to do something about the very issues you are worried about… So, what exactly are you doing besides complaining about all of us unwashed, unaware despicable masses…

  26. if you want to sit back and think that there is no way it can happen here because of this or that, think again. the communist in our government ( which is like the entire democrat party) is not going to care about buy backs. anyone thinking that is smoking pot. they will just go door to door and ransack the home. once the second is gone, so goes the first and fourth and fifth. they will check store records, range records and online records. WAKE UP!

    • MADDMAXX, I’m not saying that defending the 2nd Amendment isn’t important. The point that I’m trying to make is that by being too focused on one point, we will get out-flanked in this war. The 2nd A will be meaningless if the Democrats get away with packing the Supreme Court. They are attacking us on all fronts. If you continue to focus all of your efforts on just one area, don’t forget to watch your back is all I’m saying.

  27. Be CONCERNED about the Left Wing Liberal CRIMINALS “elected” to CONGRESS . . . They are TRYING to DISARM the U.S. Citizens’ LEGAL rights to own weapons, to further their Left Wing SOCIALIST AGENDA – which is AGAINST the U.S. Constitution, making it SEDITION and TREASON. One Enlightened Patriot. Team Trump And His Allies 2020 – MAGA (WE’RE NOT going away!).

  28. “I don’t know. That’s why I phrased it as a question. 🙂 The potential is there…but it’s useless if nobody can agree on a need to act.”

    +1

  29. “Fortunately, the gun owners may have numbers on their side. Not just in the number of guns in their possession but the fact that the Constitution ensures they have the senators to keep such legislation from reaching the president’s desk.”

    Really? Not if (until?) the Dems get their latest bucket list wish in the books – statehood for DC. Two more senators to add to the lot. Does anyone want to guess what Party they will belong to? Then they’ll abolish the filibuster, followed by packing the Supreme Court. No mystery what will happen in short order after that.

    The Dems are doing what they’ve always done, and that is to play the long game. Something that the Republicans seem foolishly unwilling or unable to do.

    • D.C. was chartered as a federal city. To change that all property not actively engaged in federal governmental business must revert to Maryland and Virginia who donated such land for federal government business. All that would be left of D.C. would be some buildings.

    • Jim, finally someone who sees the big picture. I just wish that there were more like you. Too many others have such a narrow focus that they will be in for a big surprise when they fail to secure the back door and lose their battle to the old end-around tactic.

  30. avatar They keep on trying to get us to believe “gun control will equal crime control “ Only quite the opposite is true!

    When a government try’s to take away your right to defend yourselves it is no longer worth defending that government!

    • Saw on the back window of a pick’emuptruck recently, “When politicians send their goons for your guns, it is time to send Patriots with AR-15s for the politicians.” There boys and girls, is the reasin for Liberials/Socialists “common sense” gun control. Makes common sense for them to protect their own traitorous tyrannical asses.

  31. The Marxist Democrats are always winning the word definition battles. Rioting, looting, and arson is just protesting by their side. When we conservatives protest it is called an insurrection. They do this just like the Nazis did when sending people off to their deaths in concentration camps was called resettlement. They call abortion, the taking of innocent life, choice. They call conservatives racists and deplorables. They are now even going so far as to call packing the Supreme Court unpacking it. I kid you not. We have to take them on in their own game of defining everything. Call them what they really are, Marxist treasonist bastards.

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